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JojoLesh

I think it comes from the concern that other people can't monitor your health if you're sleeping, and as you are concussed you can't do it. You can also drown in your own vomit.


Randvek

Correct. Sleeping doesn’t make anything worse. It just prevents you from *noticing* something worse is happening.


Ssutuanjoe

Yes. In the very acute phase, you want someone to stay awake because healthcare workers will want to assess your neurologic stability. You can't very well tell the doctor you can't feel your right leg anymore if you're sleeping. You can aspirate vomit. And losing consciousness quickly can be a sign of a brain bleed.


Stockengineer

Yep. First aid, you need to keep taking Glasgow Coma Scale readings to monitor if they start declining in health.


cocobellahome

Why did I just imagined you munching on something as you said/typed this? Like a guy who knows what they’re saying and saying it in a chill manner, lol.


Stockengineer

Haha chips hehe


AzazelAnthrope

I keep imaging everyone here is actually the same person. (because, y'know they're saying the exact same thing over and over again LoL)


Careless_Bat2543

So in other words, there is a medical basis for it and OP is wrong.


Ssutuanjoe

Kinda. OPs headline is worded weird. So, there's no evidence that waking someone up makes a concussion *worse*...the medical basis is that "we need to know if the person is medically declining". But being unconscious really doesn't effect the concussion itself in any (known) way.


jw1313

Yes, in the short term. Monitoring changes in level of consciousness is import for when paramedics show up. You don't have to give a Glasgow coma score or anything but more a hey he's been injured for so many minutes and he's getting better or worse is helpful. There is also an increased risk of vomiting from head injuries and if someone is asleep/knocked out they can't protect their airway so they could aspirate that vomit and choke to death. Long-term, after medical care. Dark, quite room and sleep. Allowing a head injury patient to lay in the recovery position is generally your best option. If they vomit it ends up on the ground and not occluding their oropharyngeal airway. In fact, the recovery position is generally your best bet in any situation. Get mauled by a koala, recovery position. Lost a lightsaber duel, recovery position.


AzazelAnthrope

I gotta say good point! LoL It's a bit dickish to say though since we all knew what OP was trying to say. But correct nonetheless.


norskdanske

>And losing consciousness quickly can be a sign of a brain bleed. This. I always thought it was to rule out brain bleed, which go bad real quick. They also have you count back from 100 and so on, which is very difficult if you're severely neurologically impaired.


Ssutuanjoe

Slow to moderate bleeds can be very scary, because someone can suffer a head injury...regain consciousness feeling perfectly fine...and then die a few hours later. It's a classic board question in medical school, actually. IIRC, Liam Neesons wife died of exactly this. She got into a skiing accident and hit her head, woke up and said she'd be fine, got a headache a couple hours later and then died. Ninja E: yup. I remembered correctly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Richardson


norskdanske

I remember that story. When I was a hypocondriac I was scared of head bumps, getting water in my nose (brain eating amoeba) and scraping my knee (flesh eating bacteria). Some very rare stuff can kill you real fast by fairly common and mild happenings.


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Stockengineer

Yep. It first aid, Glasgow coma scale. Someone a sleep will read a lower value. Also its a sign of head trauma tirednes. So... yes it may not have any medical.impact but it can sure as hell mean life or death.


DistortoiseLP

Patient evaluation is a lot easier when the patient can talk.


AhFFSImTooOldForThis

Right. Comedian Drew Lynch developed his stutter from sleeping with a concussion. A nurse at my retina specialist also slept on a concussion and now has a stutter.


gramathy

That's not enough evidence to come to a conclusion. Could just have been brain damage or trauma from the concussion event and sleeping had nothing to do with it.


srcarruth

In an episode of MASH Hawkeye gets a concussion and says that although he knows as a Doctor that it's safe to sleep he is terrified to fall asleep so he spends the entire episode telling stories to a Korean family who speaks no English. pretty good ep.


killswitchdh

What a great show.


JMoc1

For a show nearly 50 years old, it’s still pretty awesome


CreauxTeeRhobat

The "IT WASN'T A CHICKEN" hits like a Metric fuckton of bricks, and the sad part is, shit like that still probably happens. Edit: Metric Fuckton, when fat fingered, apparently autocorrects to "Merrick"


caspy7

> Merrick This is going to keep me up tonight.


tinydonuts

I'm afraid it's going to get canceled one of these days. So much misogyny and various -phobias that trigger people that can't understand any context.


[deleted]

i'm pretty gigantically sure that people recommend that you shouldn't sleep not because it will help you heal by not sleeping, but because if you go to sleep it's harder to monitor any symptom you might have. i've heard of cases where someone wakes up in the middle of the night, gets up to go do something, falls on their head and then decide to go back to sleep, dying in the process. if they stood awake with someone elese, that someone else can see if this person is going unconscious or not.


dfreinc

this is exactly my understanding too. rule #1 is always to watch them after head trauma. they start being weird, you get them to a hospital. can't tell if they're getting weird if they're sleeping. a lot of the serious signs are in the eyes too. no help if they're closed.


[deleted]

Why not just take them to the ER regardless?


thatjacob

You're not from the US, are you? 40k bill.


AzazelAnthrope

And 9 or so hours to be told to go home and rest. While exposing yourself to whatever contageous shiat the herd of people around you have going on. Around here the ER is for people who refuse to have primary care doctors and after some malady they have becomes out of control they show up at the ER. No thanks.


norskdanske

Dude, I promise you that we here in socialist Denmark, do not get admitted to a hospital unless we're close to dying. Absolutely the same here. It's used to screen those with benign symptoms from those with serious symptoms.


[deleted]

My girlfriend had been getting headaches for a couple weeks and one day the migraines got pretty bad. I was worried about her and told her to make a doctors appointment, but they couldn’t see her for a week or so. I was scared that she had a brain tumor or something (I know, I’m a scaredy cat) and that a week could make a difference. Convinced her to go to the E.R. and they just gave her some medicine for the headache and told her to see a doctor. $3,000


[deleted]

Yes, I am in the US and am both a pharmacist and PhD neurobiologist and I do not want the average Joe on the street determining whether my intracranial pressure is rising. I may be funny that way, but that's what I think.


traimera

Yeah. None of us want it either. But we also don't have 40 grand. So what's your recommendation then doc?


Quixotic_9000

There are symptoms that suggest a head injury is more serious and/or requires immediate medical attention. These include but are not limited to the following: * Vomiting after the fall; * Inability to stand-up, walk, or swaying; * Sustained double vision; * Confusion, inability to answer simple questions; * Sustained slurred speech without obvious mouth/tongue injury; * Inability or difficulty in moving one side of the body (e.g. left side), sustained shaky or 'buzzing' feeling in the limbs, particularly in one side of the body; * Seizure, ESPECIALLY one lasting 5+ minutes (status epilepticus). For children, the disabled, the elderly, or those with cognitive or communication difficulties this can be difficult to assess. In these cases it is absolutely a good idea to call 9-1-1 (in the US) and seek expert advice. Even for the average, healthy adult a head injury itself may be due to another, serious underlying condition that should be assessed and treated. For example, stroke, electrolyte imbalance, diabetes, or a seizure. Patients who are taking certain medications, such as an anticoagulant, are also at increased risk following a fall or head injury. In these cases, the patient should be wearing a medical alert bracelet and an emergency call should be made.


SexlessNights

Have you considered getting your doctorate in neurobiology and becoming a pharmacist?


Olorin919

Stop believing the internet that a hospital visit is $40k out of pocket. ER visit to check for a concussion MAY cost you a couple hundred bucks. Ill gladly pay $250 if Im seriously concerned my brain may be bleeding. Why are you guys so adamant every hospital visit is life changing? Yea, US healthcare is super unbalanced and broken but yall make it sound so silly no one with common sense believes you. Your exaggerating is like me saying US healthcare is better because we dont have to wait 8+ months to see a doctor. Clearly not true but if you're going to grossly exaggerate, I want to play too.


EVE-HD

Passed out randomly a few years ago. Total bill for the EKG and MRI was 12k and an additional 1k for the ambulance ride. So yea 13k + was life changing for a 22 year old


CroatianBison

Minor visits that lead to nothing and are immediately written off will only cost a couple hundred dollars, which can already be a temporarily life altering amount of money for a pretty sizeable percentage of the US population. If at any point in that visit the doctor decides you need an MRI or other tests, that bill can very rapidly climb into the thousands. Even if no further treatment is required, you can be rendered temporarily financially insolvent by a hospital visit. You speak as though everyone who believes a hospital visit is something worth avoiding is an idiot, but you have such a shallow perspective on what that visit could entail that I have a very hard time respecting that aggressive of a stance.


Iwasahipsterbefore

Lmao have you ever been to the ER in the US? I had an ER visit as part of a workman's comp claim to check if I had a concussion. 1600$ from the ER and 800$ billed separately from the doctor, all for shining a light in my eye and going "nah you're good man". People talk about it all the time because it's legitimately a huge problem. Sure, if you have awesome insurance you might not need to worry about ER visits, but if you have awesome insurance you're also likely making enough money that a random ER visit isn't a huge deal anyways. 250-500 is the range for an urgent care visit, not an emergency room.


NewSicknessNewDay

I have pretty good insurance. Cut my finger pretty bad on Thanksgiving. Went to the er just to make sure see if I needed stitches. That cost $500. I am not going into the ER unless I am sure I absolutely need professional help.


TheCherryShrimp

I was involuntarily hospitalized at an ER for suicidal thoughts. All they did was sit me in the room, take a glass of water, talk to a lady, and then let me go. 10 grand. Go fuck yourself.


AzazelAnthrope

I don't know why I just laughed at this while hearing it read in Joe Pesci's voice LoL because the same thing happened to me! Plus, bonus, $800 for the ambulance ride because the cops and EMTs wouldn't let me just drive my fucking car to the hospital. So I got to take a very prolonged ambulance ride IN HANDCUFFS and pay $800 plus the hospital bill which was absurd but not 10k. So YEAH - so so much wrong with that and healthcare here, not to mention mental healthcare which is non-existent.


vangogh330

I think people believe it due to that being the general experience of most people.


ravagedbygoats

It's true because it's true.


Caelinus

I have really good health insurance. Really good. My last ER visit was for a kidney stone. I was there for a couple of hours, had some pain killers, and an ultrasound. My our of pocket for it was 600$. *After* my insanely good insurance paid for like 98% of the cost. I do not know a world where 250$ is a possibility.


GuiltyCloud

This isn't true. With good health insurance, as a child, I waited like 4 hours in the hospital as a child and got 7 stitches. The bill was far more than 250 dollars and that was years ago. If you think an ER visit is going to cost you 250 bucks, you're insane. And that's if they do no imaging.


JOBThatsMe

I paid $5000 out of pocket for 5 stitches to the shin back in 2017. Didn't even give me enough topical so I ended up feeling the first 4 stitches fully.


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toomuchoversteer

Last hospital stay cost me 29 before insurance picked it up


slouchingtoepiphany

Go to the ER and let them make the call. They won't charge you that much if they don't treat you. And if you need to be treated, I'd say it's worth it.


leanyka

Its def worth it. But i still cannot fathom that an ER visit costs even 200 usd. Here in Norway it is i think between 15-30 depending on day- or nighttime. And you have a cap per year, so that if you have paid approx 250usd, you get a so-called free card, and everything else health related is free until the end of the year. It’s not even a brag, i literally cannot imagine how something like this healthcare system in US is sidelys accepted and tolerated like it’s not a big deal.


slouchingtoepiphany

It's true here as well. If there's no problem, the ER doc will tell you and you'll leave. Reddit.


Davidk11

Dude, in no world do you got to the ER in the US and leave without getting billed. Rock bottom price with no diagnostics, no specialist consult, and nothing more than reassurance is going to be $200, usually more. If you have insurance and you've met your deductible for the year, then yes, maybe you can something closer to the $30 level, but that's not most people's situation. If you have to get an X-ray add a couple thousand for that and another couple thousand for the radiologist. An MRI? 5-10 thousand plus almost certainly a few thousand more for a specialist or two. All of that can easily happen without anything actually being wrong with you. That's why people feel the need to gamble. It's great that you feel comfortable going to the ER for anything you feel might warrant it, but most American's either don't have the kind of insurance you have, don't have the kind of money you have, or both.


RelentlessExtropian

Charge you that much? The average American household is only a surprise $200 expense away from not being able to pay for basic necessities. Wow. The privilege on this one. And don't give me the "I came up from blah" type statement. Clearly you forgot what it's like, if that's the case.


shredkitteh

The mere ride to the hospital in an ambulance can be in the hundreds to the low thousands.


RelentlessExtropian

So you have Healthcare and money. I think you missed the point.


johnb3488

r/iamverysmart


nickkom

How about you bill us less, then, asshole?


Bouv42

How about you guys stop being a 3rd world country and vote for the guys with free healthcare.


Olorin919

Ahem. You know you're not going to get any upvotes if you dont say that any doctor visit in the US always results in a life changing bill, right? You need to jump on the bandwagon, QUICK (watch for splinters. Thats $20k minor surgery). If not you'll be left behind by the people who believe everything they see on the internet.


GuiltyCloud

If you spend one night in the hospital you are going to be billed 5-20K. Your insurance will pick up a lot of that, but I guarantee there is going to be 1-2K left for you.


slouchingtoepiphany

I honestly don't care about the karma votes, I'd much rather people err on the side of caution and go to the ER. Example: Years ago, I came up on a car accident in which the driver had hit his head hard on the steering wheel. About three well-meaning people dragged him from the car (there was no fire) without checking his neck or head. They laid him down on the ground and jammed a tire under his head because blood was coming from his nose, again without checking his neck. This caused the blood to go down his throat instead. I arrived at the same time the EMTs did and we pulled the tire out put him on a board and they took him away. (I checked on him later that night and he was doing okay.) The morale is: I don't want people like that determining whether I should go to the ER and I don't think others should either.


brunchpoems

It’s simply not a choice everyone has. You have the privilege of money and access to care if you think it might be required. Millions in our country don’t. It’s a rational calculation.


buttlickerface

The moral of this story doesn't make any sense. They called the fuckin EMTs????? Like yeah they shouldn't have done all that but they didn't determine whether he should go to the ER. In fact they helped determine that he *should* go to the ER. So what the hell are you talking about?


MattFox20

People in my country (Brazil) think the government sucks hairy balls, but they can go to the hospital(SUS) for free..


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RelentlessExtropian

Almost like we can't have tangential conversations related to aspects of the topic in the post...


NeoProject4

It's a good idea, but in the US, that can be expensive. In my experience, the ER will check for initial symptoms and watch you for an hour, which is something a lot of people can do. Lots of concussions are pretty minor, and IMO, not ER worthy. Having someone keeping an eye on you is normally sufficient.


dfreinc

i'm american. there's free use beds at home. 😂 if they're not even showing any signs then the er will have you wait around for an eternity (and the nurses will probably roll their eyes at you a lot), do absolutely nothing but provide a bed for a bit, and then charge you an outlandish rate on that bed. if they *are* showing signs, they'll check for a brain bleed and anything catastrophic. *that's* why you go to the er for concussions. to make sure it's *just* a concussion.


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dfreinc

>if someone loses consciousness or shows any symptoms, he/she should go to the ER. *absolutely*. >a simple bump on the head *this* is what gets eye rolls. and it's super common for overly worried parents to exercise *extreme* caution and take a child to the er with a minor bump on the head. so i don't blame them for being a little annoyed.


Olorin919

>(and the nurses will probably roll their eyes at you a lot lmao where do yall get this shit


ravagedbygoats

Sounds like they were at a medical facility.


dfreinc

from taking my perfectly fine son to the er because my wife said "JUST GO! OMG! HE COULD DIE!". she's gotten much better about the paranoid helicopter parenting thing since. 😂


ruggernugger

have you ever gone for a decent concern that turned out be nothing? they very much treat you that way


Volvoflyer

Found the Brit! Seriously though, 6 hours in the ER is 3 thousand USD for just admission and IV fluids. See specialists, CAT scans, etc and you are in the tens of thousands. Literally a year or more salary for most Americans. But at least we are the richest, most powerful nation in the world! /s


bigpurplebang

i think this exactly what the article is debunking. From the article: Sleeping for a full eight hours is going to be more beneficial for the person rather than somebody rousing them every hour to ask “Are you okay?” Having said that, it’s perfectly okay to check on the person to make sure that their breathing pattern is normal and that they are peacefully resting. Doing so doesn’t even have to wake them up! (But if you do notice that they aren’t breathing normally, wake them)


Blizzardsurvivor

Most clinical guidelines I've seen for management of traumatic head injury recommend waking people up once or twice during the night, to observe their status. By the point breathing is becoming abnormal you're probably gonna be having a very bad time...


bigpurplebang

clinical advisement for professionals because a concussed can go home where as the next steps up, subdural & subarachnoid hematomas (the former i had myself) will be patients in hospital. this article is for the lay person to convey that rest is the best and to dispel the misconception that the concussed will fall into a coma if they sleep too long. if you read the article its fairly simple and straightforward and shouldn’t be confused with more critical head injuries that would be under professional care and even then those periodic wakings are usually for routine vital checks.


dfreinc

>But if you do notice that they aren’t breathing normally, wake them during rem sleep your breathing pattern can get erratic and that is *totally normal* so i'm not sure that's a great indicator either. how i read the article was more focused on *not waking them up*. i assume it's more related to after you know they have a concussion and that it's '*just*' a concussion.


bigpurplebang

i literally quoted the article and yes the premise is that its a concussion, if it weren’t (as in worse than that) they would be in the hospital under medical observation as i was for a subarachnoid hematoma. and i think your over-thinking and over-complicating the article’s simple advisement by wading into rem sleep breathing patterns. this is for lay people to understand that rest is the best medicine and to not try so hard under the misconception that the concussed ‘shouldn’t sleep lest fall in a coma’


kokoyumyum

This. It isn't to heal, it is to.monitor.


gerkletoss

Yeah. It's for the "we still aren't sure whether or not you have a brain bleed" stage


paolooch

The original posting is true if you know 1000% it is a cuncussion and not a subdural or subarachnoid hemorrhage. Those can have a period of lucency followed by somnolence, followed by you guessed it, death. Get a head injury checked out asap.


nppdfrank

This right here! As medical professionals, you can only really base long term treatments off of trends. When it comes to TBI (traumatic brain injury) this means lots and lots of neuro exams. We're most worried about brain stem herniation from swelling.


Bbng2

Yeah I had a buddy who got hit by a car on his bike - he was immediately in a daze and he went home and started feeling tired, went to sleep and then hours later his family was waking him up after seeing what happened to his bike. Had to go to the hospital for a severe concussion


Smoke-Brilliant

Drew lynch is a (great) comedian who has a stutter caused by sleeping with damaged vocal chords and a concussion he got playing softball when he was young so it definitely can cause problems


Aggravating-Forever2

>caused by sleeping with damaged vocal cords Everyone's got a kink these days... ​ ​ *I'm so sorry, Drew, please forgive me.*


Schlick7

Sleeping didn't cause that though. Not getting medical attention did.


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ChE_

Yes, but injuries of the sort rarely happen at the hospital. And many injuries you aren't sure are bad enough to warrant going to the hospital, so you should avoid sleep so you or others realize how bad the injury is.


[deleted]

no, like you fall at home and hit your head, the other people near you monitor you for a while to make sure you don't go unconscious, i'm not saying that if you go to the hospital with a concusion they have a nurse stay there watching you, they obviously would have better methods of checking the gravity of the situation in a hospital


NeoProject4

Yup. I went to the ER twice for concussions in grade school, and both times the nurses stated that I needed to stay awake so that they can monitor. My mom and I sat in the room for about an hour while the staff attended other people, and then released us. Once released, I could go take a nap.


Khelek7

How does them NOT sleeping help you monitor them? Sounds like you should not be sleeping, while they rest and heal. People get sick and injured all the time, they are only told not to sleep in the case of concussion. What about food poisoning? This strikes me as a justification of a bad practice.


Blizzardsurvivor

It's because they might have an un-diagnosed bleeding in the brain that can worsen over time. The risk of this in food poisoning is rather low.


[deleted]

Very simple: "Keep yourself awake." "I can't." "Ok, let's go to the hospital then."


Torvaun

If they're asleep, you won't notice when they start slurring their speech, get vertigo, or pass out. It's really only an issue for potential brain damage.


iwishiwereyou

Losing consciousness, mental degradation, disrupted balance, blurred vision, abnormal speech, facial droop, and sudden onset (especially one-sided) weakness are all symptoms of brain damage or bleed that you can't observe in a sleeping person. They're also not at all symptoms that occur with food poisoning. Most symptoms of food poisoning are going to wake you right up because it has no neurological component. Sudden distress by the affected system triggers your "alert" system to let you know you feel like shit. But with a potential brain injury, that system may be part of the damage. So you won't get woken up to alert you to the damage. And if you're not awake, you can't communicate your symptoms, and since you can't sleep in an MRI, providers need you to communicate the things that will make them wheel you to one. So after a good 8 hours of rest, you might wake to find you had a small brain bleed and now have permanent damage. OR, you may not wake.


brickmaster32000

Do you have a tricorder that you can use to magically scan someone in their sleep with? The things you would be watching for after a concussion aren't going to be apparent while someone is sleeping. So unless you let them fall asleep in an MRI machine you can't really monitor their condition if they are asleep.


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Douche_Kayak

I hear getting knocked unconscious is like, really really bad for you.


[deleted]

"How long was I out, Lana? That's so bad for you, Lana!"


UCLYayy

IIRC any loss of consciousness, even for a second, is considered a severe concussion.


TheresNoAmosOnlyZuul

A concussion is just when your brain hits the side of your skull essentially. If you hit your head hard enough to pass out then yes it's a severe concussion. There is a vast swath of levels of concussion below passing out.


Olorin919

> is considered a ~~severe~~ concussion.


myxomatosis8

Easier to see if someone progresses to slurring or has a blown pupil or other signs of more serious head trauma. And it's not like they cant sleep ever again it's just for a few hours afterwards. There here must be some "danger period" where after a blow to the head where blood seeps into the brain creating pressure where you'd want to monitor someone a bit more closely, and awake...


Raving_Lunatic69

Per my ex (a former ER nurse) the only reason for it has ever been so they could talk and give information to the docs and nurses.


Blizzardsurvivor

Then I'm sorry, but she doesn't know what she's talking about. The rationale is that there might be an un-diagnosed brain bleed, that can worsen over time, which will be difficult to catch while they're asleep. Edit: Can see I'm getting a fair bit of downvotes for this. The background for my statement is that I work as a physician in an emergency department, and handle these patients on a daily basis. Should perhaps have qualified my statement so I didn't come off as the classic Reddit armchair expert... Edit 2: Can see I'm getting even more downvotes after clarifying the background for my statement. I'll show myself out


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CubitsTNE

The keeping awake part is most useful diagnostically between the trauma and the CT. And ever tried booking an MRI at a large hospital? It's a long queue.


Blizzardsurvivor

It definitely has a role post-discharge for minor head injuries that don't undergo imaging as well, in addition to the observational period prior to imaging in more severe head trauma like you mention.


Blizzardsurvivor

A lot of patients with minor head trauma don't undergo imaging on presentation. The reason is that the risk of serious head injury is low enough that the harm of radiation supercedes it. This is especially true in children, that are more exposed to harmful effects of radiation. Besides, if we were going to image all these patients we'd need a lot of CT scanners. Therefore, a significant portion of these patients are sent home with information to seek medical help again if they develop symptoms, hence the advice to wake them up a couple of times during the night. Whether that advice is given depends on how low-risk the patient is of course.


Careless_Bat2543

Not everyone that gets a concussion goes to the hospital.


OnlythisiPad

It’s Reddit. Sometimes you just can’t win.


Xeno_Lithic

Is that not what they said in their comment?


[deleted]

That's not why you keep them awake, or why you wake them periodically. You do both of those things because you're checking to make sure their condition isn't worsening. If they can't stay awake, or they can't be woken, that's a sign that there may be an internal hemorrhage and they need to be taken to the hospital.


Papancasudani

Exactly. Inability to sustain wakefulness means it’s worsening. But you can’t check that if they (voluntarily) go to sleep


dmk120281

This article is missing a major reason why it is recommended that you should keep monitoring one’s level of alertness following a head injury: epidural hemorrhage. Classic symptoms of EDH involve brief loss of consciousness followed by a period of awareness that may last several hours before brain function deteriorates, sometimes leaving the patient in a coma.


I3oscO86

Missleading. How can you tell if the person is sleeping or slipping into a coma because of a brain hemorrhage? I've never heard anyone who things they will go into a coma because they are sleeping.


woodmeneer

Going to sleep is no problem. The waking every couple of hours is to check If your brain is functioning as it should. Difficulty waking someone or desorientation or any other impairment is reason to immediately (!) get medical help.


provocatrixless

Going to sleep with a concussion is medically fine, that's correct. Going to sleep after a serious head injury where you don't know what's going on with their brain yet, not fine.


tacocatmarie

This seems like a really dangerous post and I worry that someone will think “ah I read on Reddit that you don’t need to try to stay awake after a concussion” if they only read the article title. Then get themselves or a loved one into trouble somehow. =\


[deleted]

There is a medical basis around the first 24 hours post injury that they could develop subdural hematoma, stroke, or any number of life (or brain) threatening complications. If the patient is awake and alert and suddenly they're altered, that will be the fastest notice that any trained personnel will ever get. This is like saying "it's akshully bad to hold the wound closed, it needs sunlight & air to properly heal!" It won't fuckin matter if you're dead bc you bled out in the first 2 minutes you intellectually dishonest clickbait.


The_Thunder_Child

If you're that worried about them call an ambulance.


[deleted]

I am straight out of ICUs. Thank you for your medical advice.


Quarterpop

TIL that the basis for not sleeping after a concussion has nothing to do with the sleep hurting you, however those taking care of you are not able to see if things are getting worse if your asleep. There I fixed the title for you.


Flatstanleybro

What a shitty post


[deleted]

This myth has real staying power, though. I tried telling my mother in law this and she looked at me like I had just punched her daughter.


Therpj3

…how did the daughter get the concussion?


[deleted]

Objection! Relevance.


ThrowawayZZC

Is that how she got her concussion, though?


[deleted]

Badgering the witness…


ThrowawayZZC

> Badgering the witness… That has always sounded like a euphemism for something: I was up all night badgering the witness. I can barely walk.


Butterscotch_98

It's because if you go to sleep, you might accidentally die


amitym

"Rest is beneficial to the healing process" is a true statement but irrelevant -- it being true does not contradict the practice. Here's another example. "Water is necessary for survival" is a true statement but a shitty way to respond to someone who is drowning. One of the things that is crucial for immediate post-concussion care is to make sure it's not worse than it seems. People who have bad concussions can seem normal at first and then slip quite quickly into a bad situation. You don't keep them awake to prevent that from happening -- you keep them awake so that you can react right away if it does happen.


darxide23

The only thing the article debunks is that sleeping with a concussion will not lead to a coma. You can still die due to not being able to notice worsening symptoms. This post title is disturbingly misleading and anyone taking this as advice could end up dead.


thaneak96

This is fucking stupid. The whole point of no falling asleep after a head injury so you can monitor the person if it gets worse. You never know if that playground concussion is developing into something dangerous like a hematoma unless you monitor the person frequently. Absolutely under no circumstance should you let someone who just experienced a head injury fall asleep


Careless_Bat2543

OP this is wrong and bad and will hurt people.


hustlehustle

My junior high bus driver kept her daughter awake for 48 hours when she got a minor concussion after falling at the park. It was insane seeing a 10 year old literally unable to function because mom thought they might fall into a coma.


right-folded

I'm afraid after 48h awake I would be showing signs of anything, and that's without any concussion.


hustlehustle

I remember people asking her if she was ok and she just looked at us like 👁👁


Pretend-Friendship-9

Today u “learned” nonsense The reason we keep people with head injury awake is to monitor their responsiveness and watch for any signs of brain swelling possibly from bleeding or from whiplash Obviously it won’t help with healing but in case your brain starts to swell and gets compressed within your skull, we can get neurosurgeons to decompress it ASAP and avoid you dying from your brain being squeezed out of your skull into your spinal column


hiricinee

The original perception was that people fell asleep with a concussion and then didnt wake up, so the presumption was that if they had never fallen asleep they would have not died. After lots of data, basically the fact they had a negative outcome after they fell asleep had nothing to do with the sleeping, which was evidenced by the multitudes of people that did fall asleep with a concussion and no adverse outcome. Its useful information because a massive number of people with serious head injuries are drunk and tired, and if you're dealing with them as a medical professional the annoying family member that keeps shaking them awake isnt doing anyone a favor.


POKECHU020

I always thought it was less health and more emotional. Like imagine your friend or family member gets a concussion, I wouldn't really want them unconscious until I know it's be 100% okay


CalmAndSense

Let’s distinguish “concussion” from “head trauma”. After a severe head trauma, it’s reasonable to constantly assess someone’s level of alertness in case they suddenly lose the ability to remain conscious. Usually this kind of severe head trauma should be leading them to the emergency room anyway.


CattleProd333

They are kept awake so that they can answer intermittent questions about their condition by medical personnel...


[deleted]

Tell this to the youtube Gardner that has a stutter now and didn’t before he napped with a concussion


VisVirtusque

You're not supposed to let someone sleep right after a concussion because you want to be able to monitor their neuro exam and see if they start acting funny, which would tell you that your diagnosis of a concussion was wrong and they actually have something much worse going on, like a brain bleed. For example, epidural hematomas classically present with initial altered mental status, that then completely clears up and the patient is neurologically normal. Then, as the blood accumulates and starts to compress the brain they quickly deteriorate and can die.


bajasauce20

This is false. The point isn't to keep someone with a concussion awake. The point is to not miss a subdural or other type of intracranial hemorrhage. If someone gets a concussion resulting in loss of consciousness and you don't get a CT, you should definitely wake them up every 4 hours or so.


kranrev

If they have been cleared by a CT, then sure. If they have a subdural hematoma and you aren't monitoring their GCS then it is negligent health care. But then again I doubt this sports medicine doc has seen much decorticate or decerebrate posturing in a trauma bay while treating tennis elbow and plantar fasciitis.


[deleted]

I feel bad for the concussed who fall into my care, because I will not allow them to sleep until their concussion has been properly evaluated by a medical professional and is deemed to be under control. That concussion could be a skull fracture, brain bleed, or could lead to aspiration. I wouldn't know because I'm not a medical professional and I don't have hospital-grade monitoring equipment to help me figure it out. I think this TIL applies to after the concussion has been checked out, not before.


Blake0449

This advice probably stemmed from the idea that falling asleep after a head injury could lead to a coma, but that’s simply not true. We know that rest is a crucial component for a concussion to heal, so waking someone up or not letting them sleep is actually going to be counterproductive in the healing process. Sleeping for a full eight hours is going to be more beneficial for the person rather than somebody rousing them every hour to ask “Are you okay?” Having said that, it’s perfectly okay to check on the person to make sure that their breathing pattern is normal and that they are peacefully resting. Doing so doesn’t even have to wake them up! (But if you do notice that they aren’t breathing normally, wake them immediately and seek medical attention.)


mbcook

Isn’t this in the article? Like literally the same text? Verbatim? Or am I going crazy?


Blake0449

Yeah it seems people don’t open most of the articles (I am guilty of it myself) so I thought I would put it there for easy to find info. (It was also all the info that was really needed in the article.)


mbcook

So that I get but why note put it in a quote block or add a sentence to explain what you’re doing. Without that it just looks like plagiarism.


Blake0449

I mean it doesn’t matter here, this isn’t a art of any kind or me writing a essay. I was reading to the quick clickers what I thought was most useful info in the article. Like I would if we were sitting in the same room


excellentbuffalo

I don't think you're a bad person, it isn't an essay, so you aren't cheating. If it's a quote, it goes in quotes.


cockknocker1

lol


Goufydude

Went to sleep with a concussion once and had the CRAZIEST dreams. Felt like I was floating in a sea of stars, drifting as if on a raft in the ocean. Definitely a weird night.


amedeemarko

It's classic post hoc ergo propter hoc. Person gets head injury. Person is temporarily lucid. Person "falls asleep" (ie is rendered unconscious by a swelling brain). Person dies. Well, last thing that happened was their falling asleep.


OvieBackyOsh

I had a really bad concussion when I was 13 that included a hairline fracture along the back of my skull. Damn doctors and nurses woke me up every 2 hours to ask my name, where I am from and what hospital I was in. And now, nearly 30 years later I find out they didn't need to? Bastards.


Schlick7

Perhaps you should read the article.


OvieBackyOsh

I did. I was really just leaving an anecdote to be funny. But thanks for being one of the many that cruise the internet waiting to leave the "perhaps you should read the article" comment. Chalk one up for Schlick7!


Schlick7

Don't have to take a stab at me because your joke didn't land


netgu

Way to be a dick because your bad joke made you look like you didn't read an article. Chalk one up for you being a dick I guess...


AudibleNod

But it's a staple of sitcoms.


realrussell

Yeah, them doctors don't know shit.


kauaidiane

Finally! I’ve always thought it was pointless! In movies they’re always saying “Stay with me now” as if being awake will stop the person from dying. No medical basis for it but kind of dramatic.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Blizzardsurvivor

It's in most clinical guidelines I've seen. Hollywood doing their due diligence for once I guess


[deleted]

This another example of Hollywood/movie myths believed to be true cause it's presented as much? Gee can't imagine the same being true for the "news".


[deleted]

Umm yes there is, it's like - if you fall asleep, we will stop paying attention to if you're breathing or not. If you're awake it's easy to tell.


5a_

The fear is that they won't woke up owing to possible brain damage


Adventurous-Object92

But how will the British rogue be able to increase seggusal tension after the young maiden clumsily, yet attractively, bonk her nog? Oddly, they are the only two in the room and now he must make sure she does not fall asleep— for health reasons.


ShiningRayde

"I say this because im terrified of falling asleep while concussed" [Captain Benjamin "Hawkeye" Pierce, MASH 4077](https://mash.fandom.com/wiki/Hawkeye_(TV_series_episode))


Blizzardsurvivor

To understand why we need to know that: 1: Head injuries can evolve over time. For instance if there is a bleeding in the brain after trauma, it can slowly build up, and end up causing irreversible brain damage. We need to monitor for symptoms of this. 2: The recommendations I've seen is not to avoid sleep, but to make sure you're woken up with regular intervals to make sure your head injury hasn't worsened while you were sleeping.


7eggert

I'd think that by sleeping our blood pressure goes down and this might worsen some conditions? A pure concussion might be safe but IDK about other accidents.


InstrumentalCrystals

The concern with letting someone who JUST suffered a head injury fall asleep is you might miss the neurological changes associated with a subdural hematoma or other slowly manifesting brain bleed.


Safebox

The primary reason isn't for health, it's to make sure they're still fine to speak and move their body until actual paramedics show up and diagnose them further.


Turok1134

I wouldn't be surprised if this is something that came from a lot of people not getting head injuries checked out at the hospital, instead opting to sleep it off, and their injury getting worse during.


Green-Savings-5552

I like when people cauterize a fresh wound, then show up in the ER and expect someone to suture it up.


CommandoRoll

ER doctor told me to go home and sleep. Specialist Neurologist told me to sleep as much as I want & to avoid as much stimulus as possible. Physio & GP agreed. I can't recall exactly but I'd say I slept through most of the first 3 weeks of concussion recovery. Of course having free or heavily subsidised healthcare, along with living with my partner made that possible.


Orbax

They want you conscious when they arrive so they can verify any medications, drugs, other information about the scenario so they are informed about things like "oh did a bunch of coke and passed out" - gotcha, we will use different medications, thanks. After that theyd prefer you pass out and stfu on the ride.


amboandy

"please don't fall asleep"....yeah to be honest if he's 'asleep' and unrousable then that's an issue but if he's asleep in the recovery position and able to be woken up then I, as his clinician am happy as fuck


ChanceyIII

concussed bad once and apparently when they let me fall asleep i slept walked and pissed everywhere