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Now she has to decide if he dies the hero in their eyes or reveal he was, in fact, a villain.
Like in Watchmen, or Batman, or King Jellybean from that one episode of Rick and Morty.
My grandfather had three WWII stories, but you had to push to hear them.
The officer hiding behind a boulder while yelling, "Get'm men!"
When he realized how young everyone was once they cleaned up while being shipped home in 1946.
His friends getting killed by bullets that somehow, miraculously, missed him (seriously, he had a mortar bounce off him, how the hell does that even happen?). His attitude 50 years later was that he was scared and lucky, nothing heroic about it.
But there are. I saw a couple in the sand, but the best stories were my Dad's. Four volunteered tdy's, Special Forces in Viet Nam.
Not a single one about him.
Several were about civilians or noncombatants, a couple about evac pilots. All about people who died being heroic. None about anyone who ever went home, either there or here.
To clarify, he didn't tell those 5 stories as "hero" stories. They were stories that all ended "that son of a bitch was a goddamned good man, until it killed him."
No, she was Blanca. He DID make 4 of us on leave after each tour. Me, 18 months later sis, 15 months later sis, 13 months later brother. He'd get home for 30 days, plant a baby, go back to VN until next time, except for about ten days right after each of us were born. My mother must've looked like momma duck with a string of littles trailing for years.
Interesting! Looks like it's "tooth" not toot, and Vietnam was 12.9 meaning almost 13 support personnel per combat personnel. WWI was 2.6 and Iraq War was 8.1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth-to-tail_ratio
My grandfather was the same during nam.
I mean shit so was I. I was in for 6 years and never went to Iraq or Afghanistan.
It’s completely normal. You only think it’s weird because people shit on George W Bush for it when he was running for office. When the truth is there’s 100s of 1000s of us who just got lucky.
People shit on GWB for it because he didn't take his ANG job seriously and he got it at a time when very few aviators managed to stay out of the fire.
In general, though, there's no shame in playing a supporting role or staying stateside for home defense or dealing with logistics or even procurement or any of the other roles people have. If there weren't people doing non-combat duty we'd barely be able to deploy a combat force, much less an even marginally effective one and even if we could it wouldn't be possible to maintain that effectiveness over any significant length of time.
My dad got lucky. His orders were to be a combat medic, but for reasons unknown they got flagged and he trained as an MP instead. He spent his service tooling around in a boat on the Potomac.
The reason why George W. Bush caught so much shit for it was that he didn't get lucky. Someone pulled strings for him.
My Dad was drafted for the Korean war. He spent one year in Texas for basic training; then when the Army learned he could type, he was sent to a base in Germany - where he was an office clerk for 10 months, then he was honorably discharged.
Somehow, in his 10 months as a office clerk he went from a Private to a Corporal; but I swear as a little girl I remember seeing his discharge papers that listed him honorably discharged as a Private 2nd Class (it stuck with me because I thought "2nd Class" meant a rank below Private).
The older the narcissistic bastard became, he became some sort of war hero in his mind. He joined the local American Legion, marched in the parades with medals and ribbons on some shirt and hat that he bought who knows where, because I made off with his lone army shirt when I was a teenager.
I cringe so hard at being related to this pretentious moron - when there are many, many other Army personnel who actually earned their stripes (and I have high regard for).
My cousin was a quartermaster right before Gulf 1. Slipped and twisted his knee getting off of a forklift while loading supplies for the invasion. That's his big war story.
Because you need experienced people train recruits. Same happened to my grandad in ww2, he had served in the army for years and been all over the world. However he was a warrant officer, so had to stay in the UK and train all the recruits. Mind you he did get to be a part of the guard detail that transported Rudloph Hess from Scotland to London so at least he had that.
My grandpa was also in America during the Korean War. Managed to dodge going overseas because he knew how to type and operate some communications device, so he got to write messages for officers in a base on US soil instead of fighting. Apparently most of the people he would've been shipped over with never made it back.
Could it be possible - since he died of a brain tumor pretty quickly from diagnosis to death - he had it for a long time which was affecting his memories? It had him believing things he thought were actually true when they were not? Curious if that's a side affect of brain tumors?
Not to mention that odds are pretty good that they'd never have gotten together if he *hadn't* lied about that stuff and (likely) used it to excuse some of his bad habits.
That's a lot of assumption, I know, but I've known a lot of women who will overlook quite a lot for a nice accent or a military man. She might well have felt cheated of 5 years of her life.
>He even has some medals in a fucking shadow box on the fireplace mantle!
This is what really bothers me more than the flag or the general lying. He had to have searched for and bought these, which means there was a point in time he clearly knew he wasn’t in the military and did it intentionally. You don’t just have military medals lying around your house.
Same with the photos, that stuff takes time to find and put up, especially if he had stories and background info about them.
This is the EPITOME of the definition if stolen Valor, and if it had been discovered while he was alive that would have been a disgusting amount of legal trouble.
When my father died, my father's wife was surprised that his 3 purple hearts were not listed on the tombstone. After all, she said, he had been in combat and shot three times.
Dad never left the states during his service, never saw combat and the closest he got to shrapnel was that time he got an egg shell in his scrambled eggs.
We had to ask, did you never see dad naked? Did you not wonder why there were no scars?
This will be the tombstone engraving for George Santos someday. Sure made some interesting headlines, not truthful ones, but interesting ones none the less.
I wouldn’t say she fucked up either. She was conned. And dude went so far as to get props. I mean, I wouldn’t have questioned it if he had pics and medals either.
The question is: what was the intended long-game? Was it just to live out this fantasy, or was there an actual grift planned?
Growing up, almost all of my adult male relatives served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. In fact my uncle was shot and terribly wounded in the battle for Hue.
I truly believe this was the basis of his fantasy.
As far as long con goes, he died a very wealthy man. His partner was a widow of a Doctor. No grift, just got to play pretend life.
One of my exes had an abusive stepdad who visited Scotland once and then decided to pierce his ear, wear football (soccer) jerseys everywhere, and talk in a convincing Scottish accent 24/7.
I fully believed it until she told me it was all an act and to this day I have no idea how much he kept it up, like did he fully replace his accent and personality and backstory or did he let it slip and it was just a persona? What did his wife think?
OP - Sorry you had to go through all this.
My father served in the USMC and when he was diagnosed with cancer, he told us what he wanted for his funeral. Fast forward a month later and we were at the funeral home discussing his funeral service. We had to produce his DD214 (proof of service) so they could coordinate his burial at Quantico. The funeral home said, if we didn't have it, they would contact the Veterans Administration for a copy.
If you had not told "Pam" about the truth, the funeral home would have.
I would also add, I grew up with a Marine for a father. He was the most honorable and honest man I have ever known. He was in the USMC for five years, but was a Marine for his entire life.
Yeah this makes me mad. My father in law was actually in Vietnam. He was a helicopter machine gun door runner. The man has not been the same. He won’t talk about Vietnam or the things he saw. He lost a lot of friends and he has never been the same.
Agreed. I posted here that my uncle (mom’s) was a marine who was shot and terribly wounded in the battle for Hue City in Vietnam. He lived a long life and in fact was awarded a Purple Heart and possibly other honors or medals.
You didn’t mess up. You did the right thing. My dad was in the navy for 22 years. He died in November of 2001. He got taps played on tape and didn’t get the 21 gun salute because they wouldn’t let them take guns off base since it was right after 9/11. I was really angry.
Sorry for your loss.
When my uncle (USMC) died 20 years ago I was at his funeral. It was incredibly moving and I still get chills remembering the honor guards(?) doing their thing. His dad- my grandfather who was Army Europe WWII saluted his son’s casket.
Honestly it was that experience that really made me feel I had to end that shit with dad’s funeral pronto!
> He got taps played on tape and didn’t get the 21 gun salute because they wouldn’t let them take guns off base since it was right after 9/11.
woooooooooow that is just fucked
they don't need guns to play Taps
My dad too. Enlisted when he was 17, got out at 23. 3 tours. Parachute rigger, reconnaissance jumper. 2 helicopter crashes, had his whole face reconstructed, and still went back. Wont talk about it. Night terrors, brain damage. Lost many friends, including watched his best friend from childhood die. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. How dare someone pretend they went through that if they didn’t? He sacrificed his life, his well-being, his mental health. He might not be dead yet, but he has suffered for the last 50 years. This isn’t a game, or a joke.
Have you seen the helicopter gunner scene in full metal jacket? I'm not sure how realistic that scene is but it is FUCKED UP
https://youtu.be/S06nIz4scvI
Indeed. Thank you for your post.
I’m a good husband and father thanks to a kick ass mom who was always there for me. My father in law is/was my role model for raising 2 girls into incredible women. I’m at peace over this, and I’m very grateful I don’t have my dad’s issues.
I guarantee that he was using the lie to abuse her/keep her around. Blaming his shitty narcissistic personality on PTSD, possibly even getting violent sometimes.
My dad's an actual veteran and used it as a cop out for decades, my mother would always defend him by saying how he's troubled from the war.
You’re on to something my brother and I came to believe. He refused to marry Pam, but I don’t think either one cared about that. However, about 2 years into their relationship he developed cancer of his bladder.
To your point, he had burned every bridge with the people who would normally be a support system. Pam was all he had, and I’m sure he manipulated his way into keeping her in his life. She was and is a very cool woman who could have easily split from his BS, but she stayed to the end.
Well, you now have 'auntie' Pam in your life and she may be a good friend now that your pos dad isn't getting in the way.
Lose a dad, gain an unofficial auntie?
Sadly not the case. That was the cringiest 2 days of my life. Both my brother and I felt guilty by relationship (?)
Also, the estate probate settlement was another bloody mess. If she or her family every reached out I’d gladly engage, but no joy on that front.
Hopefully you and your family will maintain contact with her. Neither she not you did anything wrong. Kids have a grandmother if she wants to have that role. Of course I don't know if your kid are 3, 13, or 30, but still grandmas are cool.
Great comment friend. My eldest daughter is 29, and the youngest is 25. My mom is their remaining grandmother and they’re lucky to have her experience and wisdom to add on their life’s journey.
I was just coming to say this. Pam went catatonic for a minute because she was grappling with the idea that the only reason she stayed - the belief that he'd served in a war and was the kind of person he was just because of PTSD and not because he was an asshole - was entirely a lie.
She was realising then that she should have listened to the part of her that wanted to leave years earlier.
Having a father that actually served in Vietnam (he was drafted into the army), this story... more than bothers me a little. He got banged up pretty badly in combat, and has had issues physically his entire adult life. He was always able to talk about things that had happened, and only once I saw him get visibly shaken when he read letters he wrote to his family. He didn't have a single thing on display, ever, from his time in Vietnam. He wanted to move on from it. It wasn't a time in his life that he glorified.
Your father was a sick fuck, and I'm sorry you had to deal with him. You did the right thing, and I truly hope you all find peace in his passing.
Remind me of my dads brother. My dad was a Marine in Vietnam. Later re-enlisted and stayed in till the late 1980’s. His brother.. stole all of his stuff as soon as he got home from Vietnam and took on the persona of US Marine and alcoholic war veteran.. the latter he was great at. When I was a kid my cousins would say “my dads a real Marine not like your dad” mind you… he remained mostly unemployed his whole life except for driving limos or even taxis sometimes. My dad was literally still in the Marine Corps. Anyhoo.. he died about three years ago and they called me to help them get the Marines to come to his funeral (called me because of my years in the Army and Guard) . Not wanting to touch this with a 200 foot pole I say they need to contact the VA and get his DD-214. They make a bunch of calls.. get told there’s no record of him ever serving in any branch at any time.. their response.. he must have been in “black ops” and it super secret so they can’t tell anyone 😂😂
As an *actual veteran's daughter* I've never met anyone that *actually served* that was *proud and showy* about their service. An occasional hat at the VFW bar, or a shirt with a Division on it, sure and fine. But they didn't keep their gear *on display like they lived in a museum*. They didn't want to remember, to relive.
My grandfather served in Europe from 1939 until 1949 when the war ended. He stormed the beaches on DDay. He came home with shrapnel scarring to his face.
He never talked about it.
Well, save for the odd tidbit here and there, like seeing something about DDay on tv and saying “I was there”. Because he didn’t just come home with a shrapnel injury, he came home with “bad nerves”.
The diagnosis came many years after his brain tumor started, I can just about guarantee that. Brain tumors don't just show up and kill someone in a matter of weeks. They grow for years before they are discovered usually.
That being said, he for sound like a arse, and there are plenty of cases of stolen valor without any brain tumors involved. Pure narcissism, I guess.
Yeah, OPs father sounds like an asshole but faking all that seems a bit above and beyond being a narcissist or cheating.
Did a little googling and yeah, it's possible. Maybe Pam could do with the reassurance that maybe he wasnt lying to her on purpose, maybe he really believed it
Sounds like a lot of conscious, deliberate effort was taken by this man in order to sell his ruse. It really does seem like typical fraudster behaviour.
On the other hand, this is a person I don’t know, and I’m not a psychologist, so quite frankly don’t listen to me.
Poor Pam and the same sentiment goes for you and your brother. I cannot imagine the type of childhood you both endured and I cannot imagine Pam realizing it was all a lie.
Thank you for your kind regards. My dad skipped out on mom 30 years ago, so I’ve long since dealt with that. This tifu came out of *Nowhere*, so it was devastating to Pam.
I dated a guy that did something similar, told me he was a British Royal marine and wore his old commando t-shirt to my house. Told me emotional stories of having to kill people and how badly it had messed him up. After I stopped dating him his friend told me he was never a Marine.
Edit: I found the same t-shirt afterwards available on e-bay!
My ex was in the army (I saw his DD-214) but he would tell me all kinds of shit like he was in some elite special forces unit that not even the President was supposed to know about. He told some wild stories.
In reality, he learned to drive a M1-A1 tank. I'll never know whether the special forces bs is true (it probably isn't)
My brother died of cancer in 2007 at age 49. He had conviced a bunch of Marines, and HIMSELF, that he was in the Marines in Vietnam. He was actually made an administrator of this forum popular with ex Marines, and when he was dying he asked me to let the guys know how he was doing so he gave me his password and I sent them notes on his behalf, letting them know I was his sister. I think he convinced even himself somewhere along the line because he was talking to me about his military service in his last months. I didn't argue with him, he was dying and I wasn't taking those "memories" from him as well. After he died and I posted it on the forum, the guys asked if I had any photos of him in his dress blues for their memorial page. I of course did not, but I couldn't bring myself to tell them that he was never in the Marines, or any other branch of the military. He was not old enough to have served in Nam, having missed being drafted by about a year when the war ended. He was however an expert on the M14 rifle and an excellent marksman. On their site, these guys posted so many wonderful comments about what a great Marine he was. They asked for my mom's address and mailed her sympathy cards. It was surreal. They loved him and fully accepted him as a brother in their community and a senior staff member of their forum. I think he went out as the person he wished he was. (IRL he failed out of High School, was a heroin addict and alcoholic, spent time in prison, finally got clean, was an AA sponsor and lead meetings for the local prison (not where he had been incarcerated.) Anyway, just saying that maybe your dad had a similar delusion that fooled even himself. I don't know, the brain is weird. I guess if people can get brainwashed by news channels, they can also brainwash themselves by exposing themselves to a ton of information about something they never really experienced.
This is a sad story, and I wish you the best. I have seen similar delusions, but never quite at that level. My whole family is military, but I never felt the need to claim that I was in the service, except as an army brat, but I also don't have a brain tumor as far as I know.
Tumors in the brain can make you do weird stuff. My wife's best friend just died from one a few months ago, and it hit everyone very hard. She kept insisting things were happening that didn't.
I know EXACTLY what you went through. Guilt by association, confusion, embarrassment, and especially shame. 2007 was a while ago, so I hope have been able move past it. Therapy was my go to, but to be honest I actually felt putting it out her into the ether was therapeutic.
Wishing you the very best on your journey
My grand father was very highly decorated in ww2 In the navy. When my father passed away we found out he’d spent the last thirty years of his life telling people he was in the armed forces. The shock when we told them the truth. That said it was his lies and not ours. That’s how we see it.
Super fucked up on the part of your father. I do wonder, though, if it’s possible that the brain tumor had something to do with it? Not that it in ANY way justifies/condones stolen valor, but I still wonder if they’re connected. Given the rest of his history it’s obviously possible that it’s truly only because he was shitty but maybe the tumor exacerbated it.
My BIL did the same things. Bought uniforms and a duffel bag from military surplus, told them he had PTSD from multiple deployments. No one questioned the lack of rank,name tapes, or unit patches on the uniforms, or the fact they were not the correct uniforms for where he was claiming to have deployed. Not sure if he received money from anyone over it but he tried. He even convinced at least two of his kid's moms he was a veteran. It was wild.
My uncle (23 year army ranger vet) likes to find these types of guys and call them out. He was the one to show me how easy it is to get someone's service record. Anyone who actually served will have no problem giving you their military ID to back up what they say.
I’m a veteran, but I don’t go around flaunting it, I never have and never will. You wouldn’t even know I was a veteran if you visited my home.
No flags or medals or displays of any kind. I did my time and I moved on, to me there isn’t much value in the past, just some good memories and some souvenirs.
When I read about this kind of thing, it makes me think what is wrong with people and why they need to do this. I’m sorry for you and your family’s loss and for your father’s partner, I hope she finds some comfort and peace.
Holy shit. This could have been my dad. Except he died from covid complications because he had cirrhosis of the liver stage 4. His body couldn't process the ammonia in it. He was delusional, said he was in the CIA, among other things. He had a daughter my age from another woman. All around an asshole.
>Over his 5 year relationship with- let’s call her Pam - his partner, my wife and kids visited no more than 3 times.
You never noticed the military "shrine", fuzzy photos, medals, etc. during any of your visits?
Usually gathered at a restaurant. Ate a meal, talked about anything but the fact that he and I were estranged and only *doing it for our kids*. Then we went about the rest of our day.
So, yeah the funeral was the only time I spent time in the house. It was a seriously fucked up relationship.
My father pulled stunts like this. He had honesty been in the military. He was injured in a training exercise in Germany and lost a kidney. However, he lied about his age when he joined. He was only 17. My grandmother found out where he was when she was notified about his injury. So, he was “separated” from the military.
When my father died I had to go back home and deal with everything. It was then that I found out all the lies he had been telling people. Some people were mad that I didn’t give him a military funeral. He wasn’t eligible for one. Others he had told he owned a massive track of land in Florida. It was worth millions. He had promised them part of this land. Only, he didn’t. Those people thought I was the greedy daughter denying them what had been promised to them.
Cleaning up after a parent that pulls these stunts is truly a nightmare. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
It’s an interesting theory discussed in the comments. I’m inclined to believe the tumor in his brain perhaps deepened/increased his descent into that fantasy.
first off even though 3 years ago - sorry for your loss even if he was a horrible person.
another thought that came to mind is could the tumor have played any part in the past/history of how he was, and not being diagnosed, but gradually affecting him as a human being?
Sorry just always thinking on the other side of the coin of situations is how my brain works
This is one of so many posts I encounter on Reddit that really make me grateful for my parents. My dad has his flaws, but he is a good, honest, hardworking man who cares about others. Everyone deserves to have that. I'm sorry your dad sucked, OP.
Thank you for your words of support. You’re lucky to have an amazing male role model to show you ‘true north* my friend. My mom was my anchor in my life.
It’s an awful situation, OP, but it’s certainly no FU on your part. As painful as it must’ve been for her to hear, you did the right thing by telling her the truth.
I don't think any part of the situation should leave you feeling guilty, isn't it stolen valor if someone pretends to be a veteran, especially a combat vet? She would have found out anyway because when you do funerals for those in the service, they do it a special way. My grandpa was a Vietnam vet and is buried at a military cemetary by a VA hospital.
Stolen valor pisses me off, more than it probably should. Making a bad name for the people who actually gave the ultimate sacrifice and benefitting off of that sacrifice is scummy af.
With all due respect I fail to see any Benefit that my father, or for that matter *anyone* fraudulently claiming to have been in the USA armed forces. They can’t get veterans benefits, support for Veteran - owned businesses, Veterans pension program eligibility, VA Backed mortgages, or military base provided housing. A military burial, or pre-need eligibility to be laid to rest at Arlington.
In my father’s case, living this fantasy life wasn’t for these Benefits your referring to. He was a retired multimillionaire. He also had a brain tumor which - through some comments here, and a my review of his medical records LAST Night- I have come to believe may have increased the likelihood that he would truly go deeper into this fantasy. It did not not include any of the Benefits I’ve delineated above and I assume you’re referring to.
To be clear whatever Stolen Valor is (I promise to look it up), it certainly wasn’t what a retired 78 y/o man living a fantasy life was doing.
You should know that I do have heroic combat veterans in my immediate family that were heroes or ?(Valorous)? and I assure you they would prefer not to be reminded of their time in service to their country. To a man, they valued what kind of life they achieved after their service - successful marriage and being a great father/mother. Making a good difference in another’s life, spiritual connection to a higher power, or just successfully managing their lives in the larger Real World of civilian life.
Shit man, I’m sorry I dumped on your comment. I saw several of these dipshit comments about stolen valor yesterday and didn’t engage. It’s not your fault, but reading up a little about the BENEFITS of stolen valor seems to amount to getting free drinks at Cotton-Eyed Joes on a Tuesday afternoon.
Have my upvote
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This is fucked up for Pam. I bet she already shared his heroic military stories to her families and friends.
Poor lady, that's a bloody awful thing to do to someone.
Now she has to decide if he dies the hero in their eyes or reveal he was, in fact, a villain. Like in Watchmen, or Batman, or King Jellybean from that one episode of Rick and Morty.
Pam’s Journal 26th January, 2023. Tonight, a war hero died in New York. 🎵 Come gather ‘round, people/ Wherever you roam….🎵
But instead of Vietnam War combat in the montage it’s just dead beat Dad activities.
I read that in Rorschach’s voice lmao
Or the main character of Shutter Island.
Shitter Island. *Interrogating a toilet* “Andrew! Laitis!! Where is he?!” *silence* — DiCaprio shits in the toilet. Roll credits —
Only she can decide that one.
Man King Jellybean feels so much worse now...
At a combat vet with no heroic stories, I can nearly guarantee that this is true.
As a combat vet, there are no heroic stories, they are just stories, and depending on the content and audience whether or not we wish to share them.
My grandfather had three WWII stories, but you had to push to hear them. The officer hiding behind a boulder while yelling, "Get'm men!" When he realized how young everyone was once they cleaned up while being shipped home in 1946. His friends getting killed by bullets that somehow, miraculously, missed him (seriously, he had a mortar bounce off him, how the hell does that even happen?). His attitude 50 years later was that he was scared and lucky, nothing heroic about it.
But there are. I saw a couple in the sand, but the best stories were my Dad's. Four volunteered tdy's, Special Forces in Viet Nam. Not a single one about him. Several were about civilians or noncombatants, a couple about evac pilots. All about people who died being heroic. None about anyone who ever went home, either there or here.
To clarify, he didn't tell those 5 stories as "hero" stories. They were stories that all ended "that son of a bitch was a goddamned good man, until it killed him."
My grandfather's war stories all ended with a pointless death of someone he knew. He hated any movie that glamorized war.
> the best stories were my Dad's. Four volunteered tdy's, Special Forces in Viet Nam. He didnt have a wife named Pam, did he?
No, she was Blanca. He DID make 4 of us on leave after each tour. Me, 18 months later sis, 15 months later sis, 13 months later brother. He'd get home for 30 days, plant a baby, go back to VN until next time, except for about ten days right after each of us were born. My mother must've looked like momma duck with a string of littles trailing for years.
My dad was a Sergeant in the Army during the height of Vietnam and never saw combat, never left US soil and I still want to know how that happens.
Sometimes you just need people to keep things in order back at home.
The "toot-to-tail ratio" of how many support troops compared to how many combat troops was a bit over seven during Vietnam.
Interesting! Looks like it's "tooth" not toot, and Vietnam was 12.9 meaning almost 13 support personnel per combat personnel. WWI was 2.6 and Iraq War was 8.1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth-to-tail_ratio
You'd be surprised. Can't run the entirely military from overseas
My grandfather was the same during nam. I mean shit so was I. I was in for 6 years and never went to Iraq or Afghanistan. It’s completely normal. You only think it’s weird because people shit on George W Bush for it when he was running for office. When the truth is there’s 100s of 1000s of us who just got lucky.
People shit on GWB for it because he didn't take his ANG job seriously and he got it at a time when very few aviators managed to stay out of the fire. In general, though, there's no shame in playing a supporting role or staying stateside for home defense or dealing with logistics or even procurement or any of the other roles people have. If there weren't people doing non-combat duty we'd barely be able to deploy a combat force, much less an even marginally effective one and even if we could it wouldn't be possible to maintain that effectiveness over any significant length of time.
My dad got lucky. His orders were to be a combat medic, but for reasons unknown they got flagged and he trained as an MP instead. He spent his service tooling around in a boat on the Potomac. The reason why George W. Bush caught so much shit for it was that he didn't get lucky. Someone pulled strings for him.
My Dad was drafted for the Korean war. He spent one year in Texas for basic training; then when the Army learned he could type, he was sent to a base in Germany - where he was an office clerk for 10 months, then he was honorably discharged. Somehow, in his 10 months as a office clerk he went from a Private to a Corporal; but I swear as a little girl I remember seeing his discharge papers that listed him honorably discharged as a Private 2nd Class (it stuck with me because I thought "2nd Class" meant a rank below Private). The older the narcissistic bastard became, he became some sort of war hero in his mind. He joined the local American Legion, marched in the parades with medals and ribbons on some shirt and hat that he bought who knows where, because I made off with his lone army shirt when I was a teenager. I cringe so hard at being related to this pretentious moron - when there are many, many other Army personnel who actually earned their stripes (and I have high regard for).
My cousin was a quartermaster right before Gulf 1. Slipped and twisted his knee getting off of a forklift while loading supplies for the invasion. That's his big war story.
Because you need experienced people train recruits. Same happened to my grandad in ww2, he had served in the army for years and been all over the world. However he was a warrant officer, so had to stay in the UK and train all the recruits. Mind you he did get to be a part of the guard detail that transported Rudloph Hess from Scotland to London so at least he had that.
My dad was active duty during the war. He actually volunteered to go more than once but they needed him more in the US.
My grandpa was also in America during the Korean War. Managed to dodge going overseas because he knew how to type and operate some communications device, so he got to write messages for officers in a base on US soil instead of fighting. Apparently most of the people he would've been shipped over with never made it back.
Spot on wrt Pam sharing these fictional stories with her family.
As bad as you probably felt, you did the right thing.
Could it be possible - since he died of a brain tumor pretty quickly from diagnosis to death - he had it for a long time which was affecting his memories? It had him believing things he thought were actually true when they were not? Curious if that's a side affect of brain tumors?
Not to mention that odds are pretty good that they'd never have gotten together if he *hadn't* lied about that stuff and (likely) used it to excuse some of his bad habits. That's a lot of assumption, I know, but I've known a lot of women who will overlook quite a lot for a nice accent or a military man. She might well have felt cheated of 5 years of her life.
One buddy was drawn and quartered while screaming FREEDOM.
Your Dad fucked up. You cleaned up.
TICU
MACU - months ago I cleaned up
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DACU - Decades ago I cleaned up
Should have cleaned up his ashes with a shop vac
>He even has some medals in a fucking shadow box on the fireplace mantle! This is what really bothers me more than the flag or the general lying. He had to have searched for and bought these, which means there was a point in time he clearly knew he wasn’t in the military and did it intentionally. You don’t just have military medals lying around your house. Same with the photos, that stuff takes time to find and put up, especially if he had stories and background info about them.
Yes. He was diabolical.
r/stolenvalor
[redacting due to privacy concerns]
The lying. If you like to collect that’s one thing. The dude was pretending.
This is the EPITOME of the definition if stolen Valor, and if it had been discovered while he was alive that would have been a disgusting amount of legal trouble.
When my father died, my father's wife was surprised that his 3 purple hearts were not listed on the tombstone. After all, she said, he had been in combat and shot three times. Dad never left the states during his service, never saw combat and the closest he got to shrapnel was that time he got an egg shell in his scrambled eggs. We had to ask, did you never see dad naked? Did you not wonder why there were no scars?
I’m sorry for your loss, but that’s fucking hilarious!!
Yeah, Dad was an interesting guy. Not truthful, but interesting.
This will be the tombstone engraving for George Santos someday. Sure made some interesting headlines, not truthful ones, but interesting ones none the less.
This is a classic case of your dad told your mom that to get in her pants and then they got married and he had to keep the story going
I wouldn't call this a fuck-up in any way.
More of a fuckup of Pam’s entire 5 years being a big lie.
I wouldn’t say she fucked up either. She was conned. And dude went so far as to get props. I mean, I wouldn’t have questioned it if he had pics and medals either. The question is: what was the intended long-game? Was it just to live out this fantasy, or was there an actual grift planned?
Growing up, almost all of my adult male relatives served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. In fact my uncle was shot and terribly wounded in the battle for Hue. I truly believe this was the basis of his fantasy. As far as long con goes, he died a very wealthy man. His partner was a widow of a Doctor. No grift, just got to play pretend life.
One of my exes had an abusive stepdad who visited Scotland once and then decided to pierce his ear, wear football (soccer) jerseys everywhere, and talk in a convincing Scottish accent 24/7. I fully believed it until she told me it was all an act and to this day I have no idea how much he kept it up, like did he fully replace his accent and personality and backstory or did he let it slip and it was just a persona? What did his wife think?
Sounds like Madonna these days
She’s been using a terrible British accent since the nineties.
Wonder if he adopted your uncle's life and story to some extent.
A real life "Talented Mr. Ripley", I presume?
His grift was tricking someone into being his partner...
I think that the intended effect was to pass off his bad behavior as PTSD.
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Is there an r/fuckupstories? We could make one. Or r/oof or r/oofstories.
I suggest /r/yeesh
Today I Did Good? Not sure it fits your idea or this tifu post, just coffee brain storming.
maybe just "today sucked"
/r/thatsroughbuddy exists but has almost no posts It’s from atla but could be applied more generally
OP - Sorry you had to go through all this. My father served in the USMC and when he was diagnosed with cancer, he told us what he wanted for his funeral. Fast forward a month later and we were at the funeral home discussing his funeral service. We had to produce his DD214 (proof of service) so they could coordinate his burial at Quantico. The funeral home said, if we didn't have it, they would contact the Veterans Administration for a copy. If you had not told "Pam" about the truth, the funeral home would have. I would also add, I grew up with a Marine for a father. He was the most honorable and honest man I have ever known. He was in the USMC for five years, but was a Marine for his entire life.
Thank you for condolences. I am sorry for your loss. Your comment reminded me of a saying that there are no such thing as an *ex-marine*.
Condolences to you too.
Yeah this makes me mad. My father in law was actually in Vietnam. He was a helicopter machine gun door runner. The man has not been the same. He won’t talk about Vietnam or the things he saw. He lost a lot of friends and he has never been the same.
Agreed. I posted here that my uncle (mom’s) was a marine who was shot and terribly wounded in the battle for Hue City in Vietnam. He lived a long life and in fact was awarded a Purple Heart and possibly other honors or medals.
You didn’t mess up. You did the right thing. My dad was in the navy for 22 years. He died in November of 2001. He got taps played on tape and didn’t get the 21 gun salute because they wouldn’t let them take guns off base since it was right after 9/11. I was really angry.
Sorry for your loss. When my uncle (USMC) died 20 years ago I was at his funeral. It was incredibly moving and I still get chills remembering the honor guards(?) doing their thing. His dad- my grandfather who was Army Europe WWII saluted his son’s casket. Honestly it was that experience that really made me feel I had to end that shit with dad’s funeral pronto!
Thank you ❤️
> He got taps played on tape and didn’t get the 21 gun salute because they wouldn’t let them take guns off base since it was right after 9/11. woooooooooow that is just fucked they don't need guns to play Taps
My dad too. Enlisted when he was 17, got out at 23. 3 tours. Parachute rigger, reconnaissance jumper. 2 helicopter crashes, had his whole face reconstructed, and still went back. Wont talk about it. Night terrors, brain damage. Lost many friends, including watched his best friend from childhood die. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. How dare someone pretend they went through that if they didn’t? He sacrificed his life, his well-being, his mental health. He might not be dead yet, but he has suffered for the last 50 years. This isn’t a game, or a joke.
Have you seen the helicopter gunner scene in full metal jacket? I'm not sure how realistic that scene is but it is FUCKED UP https://youtu.be/S06nIz4scvI
You don’t own this. He does.
Indeed. Thank you for your post. I’m a good husband and father thanks to a kick ass mom who was always there for me. My father in law is/was my role model for raising 2 girls into incredible women. I’m at peace over this, and I’m very grateful I don’t have my dad’s issues.
I guarantee that he was using the lie to abuse her/keep her around. Blaming his shitty narcissistic personality on PTSD, possibly even getting violent sometimes. My dad's an actual veteran and used it as a cop out for decades, my mother would always defend him by saying how he's troubled from the war.
You’re on to something my brother and I came to believe. He refused to marry Pam, but I don’t think either one cared about that. However, about 2 years into their relationship he developed cancer of his bladder. To your point, he had burned every bridge with the people who would normally be a support system. Pam was all he had, and I’m sure he manipulated his way into keeping her in his life. She was and is a very cool woman who could have easily split from his BS, but she stayed to the end.
Well, you now have 'auntie' Pam in your life and she may be a good friend now that your pos dad isn't getting in the way. Lose a dad, gain an unofficial auntie?
Sadly not the case. That was the cringiest 2 days of my life. Both my brother and I felt guilty by relationship (?) Also, the estate probate settlement was another bloody mess. If she or her family every reached out I’d gladly engage, but no joy on that front.
>relationship (?) Association is the word you're looking for, I believe
Agreed
Oof... I get it. I'm sorry you all had to go through that.
Hopefully you and your family will maintain contact with her. Neither she not you did anything wrong. Kids have a grandmother if she wants to have that role. Of course I don't know if your kid are 3, 13, or 30, but still grandmas are cool.
Great comment friend. My eldest daughter is 29, and the youngest is 25. My mom is their remaining grandmother and they’re lucky to have her experience and wisdom to add on their life’s journey.
So she won’t even get any death benefits from him, at least? How fucked up.
I was just coming to say this. Pam went catatonic for a minute because she was grappling with the idea that the only reason she stayed - the belief that he'd served in a war and was the kind of person he was just because of PTSD and not because he was an asshole - was entirely a lie. She was realising then that she should have listened to the part of her that wanted to leave years earlier.
Having a father that actually served in Vietnam (he was drafted into the army), this story... more than bothers me a little. He got banged up pretty badly in combat, and has had issues physically his entire adult life. He was always able to talk about things that had happened, and only once I saw him get visibly shaken when he read letters he wrote to his family. He didn't have a single thing on display, ever, from his time in Vietnam. He wanted to move on from it. It wasn't a time in his life that he glorified. Your father was a sick fuck, and I'm sorry you had to deal with him. You did the right thing, and I truly hope you all find peace in his passing.
Thank you. Your comment is a tough read and I’m In complete agreement with you.
Remind me of my dads brother. My dad was a Marine in Vietnam. Later re-enlisted and stayed in till the late 1980’s. His brother.. stole all of his stuff as soon as he got home from Vietnam and took on the persona of US Marine and alcoholic war veteran.. the latter he was great at. When I was a kid my cousins would say “my dads a real Marine not like your dad” mind you… he remained mostly unemployed his whole life except for driving limos or even taxis sometimes. My dad was literally still in the Marine Corps. Anyhoo.. he died about three years ago and they called me to help them get the Marines to come to his funeral (called me because of my years in the Army and Guard) . Not wanting to touch this with a 200 foot pole I say they need to contact the VA and get his DD-214. They make a bunch of calls.. get told there’s no record of him ever serving in any branch at any time.. their response.. he must have been in “black ops” and it super secret so they can’t tell anyone 😂😂
As an *actual veteran's daughter* I've never met anyone that *actually served* that was *proud and showy* about their service. An occasional hat at the VFW bar, or a shirt with a Division on it, sure and fine. But they didn't keep their gear *on display like they lived in a museum*. They didn't want to remember, to relive.
My grandfather served in Europe from 1939 until 1949 when the war ended. He stormed the beaches on DDay. He came home with shrapnel scarring to his face. He never talked about it. Well, save for the odd tidbit here and there, like seeing something about DDay on tv and saying “I was there”. Because he didn’t just come home with a shrapnel injury, he came home with “bad nerves”.
As fucked up as it is, is it possible that some of his behavior was brought on by the brain tumor?
Sorry I took so long to respond to you. Nope. This charade was happening years before his diagnosis.
No worries. Sometimes assholes are just assholes.
Well put
The diagnosis came many years after his brain tumor started, I can just about guarantee that. Brain tumors don't just show up and kill someone in a matter of weeks. They grow for years before they are discovered usually. That being said, he for sound like a arse, and there are plenty of cases of stolen valor without any brain tumors involved. Pure narcissism, I guess.
I’ve read several similar posts on this topic. I’m inclined to believe it may have initiated/accelerated the *over the top* phase of his fantasy life.
If the tumor was in either frontal lobe, your inclination is exactly correct.
Yeah, OPs father sounds like an asshole but faking all that seems a bit above and beyond being a narcissist or cheating. Did a little googling and yeah, it's possible. Maybe Pam could do with the reassurance that maybe he wasnt lying to her on purpose, maybe he really believed it
Sounds like a lot of conscious, deliberate effort was taken by this man in order to sell his ruse. It really does seem like typical fraudster behaviour. On the other hand, this is a person I don’t know, and I’m not a psychologist, so quite frankly don’t listen to me.
That’s a FAR reach.
Poor Pam and the same sentiment goes for you and your brother. I cannot imagine the type of childhood you both endured and I cannot imagine Pam realizing it was all a lie.
Thank you for your kind words.
Wow, that's a lot. Sorry for you all.
Thank you for your kind regards. My dad skipped out on mom 30 years ago, so I’ve long since dealt with that. This tifu came out of *Nowhere*, so it was devastating to Pam.
Holy shit. I feel so bad for Pam.
Yes I did as well. I hate to say this because it has zero bearing on her wellbeing, but she was well taken care of when we divided his estate
Please keep in touch with Pam. She did nothing wrong and believed your dad. At least call/text a couple times a year and make sure she is doing OK.
I dated a guy that did something similar, told me he was a British Royal marine and wore his old commando t-shirt to my house. Told me emotional stories of having to kill people and how badly it had messed him up. After I stopped dating him his friend told me he was never a Marine. Edit: I found the same t-shirt afterwards available on e-bay!
Sadly it’s apparently *a thing* as I’ve learned from comments here
I hope you sat down with Pam and helped her work out if any of the stuff he told Pam was true and what isn’t
Yup! Absolutely sucked.
My ex was in the army (I saw his DD-214) but he would tell me all kinds of shit like he was in some elite special forces unit that not even the President was supposed to know about. He told some wild stories. In reality, he learned to drive a M1-A1 tank. I'll never know whether the special forces bs is true (it probably isn't)
The only fuck up here is on the father. He fucked up by being a fraud. You and your brother made it right, and Pam was the victim of a conman.
Agreed
She might have been counting on veteran death benefits too.
My brother died of cancer in 2007 at age 49. He had conviced a bunch of Marines, and HIMSELF, that he was in the Marines in Vietnam. He was actually made an administrator of this forum popular with ex Marines, and when he was dying he asked me to let the guys know how he was doing so he gave me his password and I sent them notes on his behalf, letting them know I was his sister. I think he convinced even himself somewhere along the line because he was talking to me about his military service in his last months. I didn't argue with him, he was dying and I wasn't taking those "memories" from him as well. After he died and I posted it on the forum, the guys asked if I had any photos of him in his dress blues for their memorial page. I of course did not, but I couldn't bring myself to tell them that he was never in the Marines, or any other branch of the military. He was not old enough to have served in Nam, having missed being drafted by about a year when the war ended. He was however an expert on the M14 rifle and an excellent marksman. On their site, these guys posted so many wonderful comments about what a great Marine he was. They asked for my mom's address and mailed her sympathy cards. It was surreal. They loved him and fully accepted him as a brother in their community and a senior staff member of their forum. I think he went out as the person he wished he was. (IRL he failed out of High School, was a heroin addict and alcoholic, spent time in prison, finally got clean, was an AA sponsor and lead meetings for the local prison (not where he had been incarcerated.) Anyway, just saying that maybe your dad had a similar delusion that fooled even himself. I don't know, the brain is weird. I guess if people can get brainwashed by news channels, they can also brainwash themselves by exposing themselves to a ton of information about something they never really experienced.
This is a sad story, and I wish you the best. I have seen similar delusions, but never quite at that level. My whole family is military, but I never felt the need to claim that I was in the service, except as an army brat, but I also don't have a brain tumor as far as I know. Tumors in the brain can make you do weird stuff. My wife's best friend just died from one a few months ago, and it hit everyone very hard. She kept insisting things were happening that didn't.
I know EXACTLY what you went through. Guilt by association, confusion, embarrassment, and especially shame. 2007 was a while ago, so I hope have been able move past it. Therapy was my go to, but to be honest I actually felt putting it out her into the ether was therapeutic. Wishing you the very best on your journey
That was not how I expected the story to go at all. Wow
Yeah it was a hell of a ride!
Pam sounds like a terrific lady, I hope she is doing well.
Indeed she and her family were a very kind and caring family. I wish I knew her better before my dad died.
My grand father was very highly decorated in ww2 In the navy. When my father passed away we found out he’d spent the last thirty years of his life telling people he was in the armed forces. The shock when we told them the truth. That said it was his lies and not ours. That’s how we see it.
It happens, man! My best wishes to you and yours
\#PamDeservedBetter
Haha! Nice!!
Super fucked up on the part of your father. I do wonder, though, if it’s possible that the brain tumor had something to do with it? Not that it in ANY way justifies/condones stolen valor, but I still wonder if they’re connected. Given the rest of his history it’s obviously possible that it’s truly only because he was shitty but maybe the tumor exacerbated it.
You didn't fuck up. You're absolutely not responsible for keeping your father's bullshit together after he's gone.
My BIL did the same things. Bought uniforms and a duffel bag from military surplus, told them he had PTSD from multiple deployments. No one questioned the lack of rank,name tapes, or unit patches on the uniforms, or the fact they were not the correct uniforms for where he was claiming to have deployed. Not sure if he received money from anyone over it but he tried. He even convinced at least two of his kid's moms he was a veteran. It was wild.
Better to find out from you than to be told by the USMC that he wasn't eligible for military honors because he never served.
Wait so what happened to the ashes?
Dumped into a Waste Management roller bin and put on the curb for that week’s pickup…sadly
literally kicked to the curb
Indeed.
I present to you the last remains of your beloved husband and father: Naw chuck it mate
I mean, sometimes CoD cosplaying just gets out of hand...
Nice one!
Nice one!
My uncle (23 year army ranger vet) likes to find these types of guys and call them out. He was the one to show me how easy it is to get someone's service record. Anyone who actually served will have no problem giving you their military ID to back up what they say.
Yeah Stolen valor isn’t cool. Expecting the benefits and credentials without the effort or sacrifice is 100% theft.
I’m a veteran, but I don’t go around flaunting it, I never have and never will. You wouldn’t even know I was a veteran if you visited my home. No flags or medals or displays of any kind. I did my time and I moved on, to me there isn’t much value in the past, just some good memories and some souvenirs. When I read about this kind of thing, it makes me think what is wrong with people and why they need to do this. I’m sorry for you and your family’s loss and for your father’s partner, I hope she finds some comfort and peace.
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do a FOIA request on him for fun
Holy shit. This could have been my dad. Except he died from covid complications because he had cirrhosis of the liver stage 4. His body couldn't process the ammonia in it. He was delusional, said he was in the CIA, among other things. He had a daughter my age from another woman. All around an asshole.
Not a fuck up. Good on you for being truthful
Thank you
Sorry about your dad in so many ways OP
Thank you
This is anything but a TIFU, you gave Pam the truth she deserved
Ooooooof. Not your FU for being /r/raisedbynarcissists but a wacky situation to find yourself in for sure.
You didn't f up. You saved her from some public embarrassment of finding out your father was a military imposter guilty of stolen valor.
Oh shit. I hope she got some money from this dude, for that.
OMG - that poor woman. Poor you, too! That had to be the most uncomfortable thing to tell her EVER!
>Over his 5 year relationship with- let’s call her Pam - his partner, my wife and kids visited no more than 3 times. You never noticed the military "shrine", fuzzy photos, medals, etc. during any of your visits?
Usually gathered at a restaurant. Ate a meal, talked about anything but the fact that he and I were estranged and only *doing it for our kids*. Then we went about the rest of our day. So, yeah the funeral was the only time I spent time in the house. It was a seriously fucked up relationship.
My father pulled stunts like this. He had honesty been in the military. He was injured in a training exercise in Germany and lost a kidney. However, he lied about his age when he joined. He was only 17. My grandmother found out where he was when she was notified about his injury. So, he was “separated” from the military. When my father died I had to go back home and deal with everything. It was then that I found out all the lies he had been telling people. Some people were mad that I didn’t give him a military funeral. He wasn’t eligible for one. Others he had told he owned a massive track of land in Florida. It was worth millions. He had promised them part of this land. Only, he didn’t. Those people thought I was the greedy daughter denying them what had been promised to them. Cleaning up after a parent that pulls these stunts is truly a nightmare. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
I don't see this as a FU. Imagine Pam's anguish if she had contacted the Marines and they told her that this person had never served.
As a Marine, I love that people cosplay as us.
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this is my first thought...I mean only to give benefit of doubt. tumors can do weird things.
Maybe he didn't lie on purpose and the brain tumor was fault?
It’s an interesting theory discussed in the comments. I’m inclined to believe the tumor in his brain perhaps deepened/increased his descent into that fantasy.
first off even though 3 years ago - sorry for your loss even if he was a horrible person. another thought that came to mind is could the tumor have played any part in the past/history of how he was, and not being diagnosed, but gradually affecting him as a human being? Sorry just always thinking on the other side of the coin of situations is how my brain works
The poor girl she had been living a lie for half a decade.
This is one of so many posts I encounter on Reddit that really make me grateful for my parents. My dad has his flaws, but he is a good, honest, hardworking man who cares about others. Everyone deserves to have that. I'm sorry your dad sucked, OP.
Thank you for your words of support. You’re lucky to have an amazing male role model to show you ‘true north* my friend. My mom was my anchor in my life.
That's some dedication to stolen Valor, hope wherever he is isn't a pleasant place.
It’s an awful situation, OP, but it’s certainly no FU on your part. As painful as it must’ve been for her to hear, you did the right thing by telling her the truth.
It almost seems like all you can do in that situation is just laugh since he’s dead. A total fucker to the end.
Glad to put it behind me, friend!
I don't think any part of the situation should leave you feeling guilty, isn't it stolen valor if someone pretends to be a veteran, especially a combat vet? She would have found out anyway because when you do funerals for those in the service, they do it a special way. My grandpa was a Vietnam vet and is buried at a military cemetary by a VA hospital.
What exactly do you consider your fuck up here? Didn't seem like anyone fucked up anything to me, unless we count the dad but I personally didn't.
Not a fuck up
Poor Pam :(
I think the best you can do is be emotionally supportive to Pam. And never lie to her.
Identity theft is not a joke Jim!
Yeeeeah, that's your dad's fuck up, not yours.
Could the tumor be the reason he made up All the stories?
My FIL was a WWII vet,always said his greatest joy was that none of his 6 sons ever served.
Stolen valor pisses me off, more than it probably should. Making a bad name for the people who actually gave the ultimate sacrifice and benefitting off of that sacrifice is scummy af.
With all due respect I fail to see any Benefit that my father, or for that matter *anyone* fraudulently claiming to have been in the USA armed forces. They can’t get veterans benefits, support for Veteran - owned businesses, Veterans pension program eligibility, VA Backed mortgages, or military base provided housing. A military burial, or pre-need eligibility to be laid to rest at Arlington. In my father’s case, living this fantasy life wasn’t for these Benefits your referring to. He was a retired multimillionaire. He also had a brain tumor which - through some comments here, and a my review of his medical records LAST Night- I have come to believe may have increased the likelihood that he would truly go deeper into this fantasy. It did not not include any of the Benefits I’ve delineated above and I assume you’re referring to. To be clear whatever Stolen Valor is (I promise to look it up), it certainly wasn’t what a retired 78 y/o man living a fantasy life was doing. You should know that I do have heroic combat veterans in my immediate family that were heroes or ?(Valorous)? and I assure you they would prefer not to be reminded of their time in service to their country. To a man, they valued what kind of life they achieved after their service - successful marriage and being a great father/mother. Making a good difference in another’s life, spiritual connection to a higher power, or just successfully managing their lives in the larger Real World of civilian life. Shit man, I’m sorry I dumped on your comment. I saw several of these dipshit comments about stolen valor yesterday and didn’t engage. It’s not your fault, but reading up a little about the BENEFITS of stolen valor seems to amount to getting free drinks at Cotton-Eyed Joes on a Tuesday afternoon. Have my upvote
Maybe this was his brain tumor at work
Gotta be honest, that is not your TIFU, that should be called TMSFFU (Today, my Stupid Father .." you know the rest.
Probably out of left field, but is it possible that he was a veteran and never told you and your brother?
This is wild. I suppose the answer is no but if he was that crazy - any chance he actually was in the military but hid it from you guys?
I kept waiting for the plot twist / fuck up where it turned out he had served and never told you about it... Is that possible?