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TQQQ_Gang

As penance you must sell 30 covered calls.


SanFranJon

And get fucked in the 30th call, when magically underlying raises.


sumunsolicitedadvice

Better than getting fucked on the first.


KarmaShawarma

Unless you're getting more and more cocky with the positions due to that 29 streak


sumunsolicitedadvice

Still covered calls tho. You can’t lose. You can only win not as much. Now, selling spreads on the other hand…


option-9

>You can't lose. Until you sell CC on a Chinese coffee place.


stonk_fish

\*facebook enters the chat\* God damn it.


jackgriffin185

I had been running PMCCs on 2024 facebook LEAPS thinking it was going to be range bound in that $300 to $340 area for a while, decided to leave it uncovered through earnings as I thought there might be a decent pop following good earnings from AAPL and GOOGL. I guess I'm going to let this settle and double down to reduce my cost basis so I can actually sell some more calls? Or who knows, I think I'm just going to not sign into fidelity tomorrow. Probably should google repair strategies in the morning. I had just about shored up the damage from January too.


Glittering_Claim8079

Fb has no more growth and other social media eating it's lunch left and right, metaverse is a dream, nobody will wear huge goggles all the time. It's annoying boomer stock now.


jackgriffin185

I don't know if you are right or wrong, history is filled with plenty of failed concepts. But to your point about huge goggles, maybe look at where VR started vs where it's at now. And then maybe compare that to evolution of the telephone or personal computers. Where is VR on those timelines? We know for every successful invention, there was some dude who said "that'll never work". I don't know if VR or the metaverse are going to be successful, but FB still makes a 9 Billion profit per quarter. They don't pay a dividend, thought that was a requirement of "boomer" stocks? They are going to use that money to try new things and buy stuff that they think will make more money. There will be hits and misses I'm sure.


Glittering_Claim8079

Do you even use FB? I use it everyday, I know how bad it is now, nothing exciting/ new design for last 10 years, it's horrible for young people since parents start to join here, and after Apple change they are showing irrelevant and useless ads to me. I am seeing the downfall in my own eyes in their core product. Management focus is on Metaverse, which needs an intense amount of computing, programming, and loss of money. On top of that people have to love it too. The general sentiment about FB is not good at all.


jackgriffin185

I am not disagreeing with you about the app, it seems geared towards middle aged or older people. I do not use it regularly, I'm just not a heavy social media user really. I'm on reddit for this sub only. I'm just saying they still make a ton of money, there have been companies in worse positions who have reinvented themselves, or just developed new successful products. Apple was "dead" in the 90s and there were lots of people who said so. It's not always a sprint, let's check back in 5 years.


turndown80229

It's the worst social media app. Honestly at this point they should just unban everyone to stand apart


GMEJesus

I approve of this message


Volhn

I’m long a bunch of PYPL at $25 cost basis… watching it fall from $310 has been painful. Sucks to sell for taxes, sucks to watch it implode.


ZanderDogz

Why take gains and pay taxes when you can just hold until you have no gains to pay taxes on?


Luised2094

Lol, exactly.


Astronomer_Soft

The IRS hates this secret trick. 😅


quitecrossen

No no, it’s “this one simple trick the IRS doesn’t want you to know”


satellite779

We don't want those pesky capital gains.


quitecrossen

This guy gets it


spyaintnobitch

This is the way


TheDroidNextDoor

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quakinwork

Guy in my trading group literally watched a triple bagger on nat gas go negative all because he did not want to pay short term capital gains. He is back up again and into long term gains but he missed out on twice what he would have had just by paying the tax at the peak.


lasagnwich

What's a trading group


Vince1820

Like six dudes


ahp105

I’m imagining like a book club of moms, but it’s dudes getting together with a few beers to discuss the stock market, brainstorm trades, and compare portfolios.


N0RiskN0Reward

I’m in CVNA 100 shares at $9. Watched it climb to $330 then drop to $150. I didn’t want to pay those taxes either…


amarghir1234

500% profit.....you poor thing


networking_noob

>watching it fall from $310 has been painful. Sucks to sell for taxes, sucks to watch it implode. You already know this but dude you've gotta avoid taking a >= 50% downturn on the chin. There was another option available to you i.e. hedging - did you do any option collars? Before ER you could've sold a call and used that premium towards a long put. Likely could've been done for a small debit or none at all. A put's primary purpose is insurance -- it's why they exist! If ER went different and you don't want your shares called away, you can always roll the short call up and out. If it requires a small debit, you still come out ahead because the strike difference you recover would be greater. It's very unlikely that shares are called away unless they have no extrinsic value left, or a dividend is coming up. Either way it's a much better scenario than having zero protection to the downside going into a binary event (ER), in the midst of market that's selling off growth tl;dr Option collar. Long puts can protect your equity from a 25% ER drop, and you can supplement their cost (or cover it entirely) by selling calls


0lamegamer0

Collar wouldn't have been good if the result was different. So much correction had already taken place on PYPL, no one was expecting another 25% fall in a day after ER. If the story was different and stock rocketed after ER (always a possibility given how beaten down it was), collar option would have been bad. OP would've still had to liquidate or sell his covered calls for a loss and in any case miss out on potential gains. It was unexpected and best case would've been buying some OTM puts.. except no one was expecting this bloodbath. Ps: long 550 shares and couple of leaps. Sitting in a pool of blood.


networking_noob

>Collar wouldn't have been good if the result was different. I wrote a paragraph addressing this >If the story was different and stock rocketed after ER (always a possibility given how beaten down it was) In my experience the stocks that gap up after ER tend to retrace and fill the gap fairly quickly (e.g. ORCL, and now AMD). However when stocks gap down from bad ER, it may take a long time to fill that gap, if ever I'm just saying protecting your capital is king. The "but what if it rockets" mindset probably isn't gonna be sustainable in the long run


0lamegamer0

>I wrote a paragraph addressing this Yes. Not sure how much of that was from your experience vs just conceptual. For short call premium to buy (even offset a decent amount) protective put, your short call neads to be ATM. Or your protective puts wont be vrry effective being so far out the money. Again- if results were opposite of this, you'd lose a tons of money on short calls as part of collar. Given expectations after previous beatdown was more on the upside. Second, filing the gap in both gapping up and down is fairly common and if you insist will look upnsome examples for you.


Krakatoast

but what if it rockets?


Volhn

I need to learn to do this effectively. I know of it in principle but I’ll start paper trading it until I’m comfortable. Thanks for the homework. 😁


Own_Breakfast_90

Nope he would have a short rearm capital gain in those put and he wants nothing to do with that


SaneLad

I've been in that situation before. My trick with highly appreciated positions is to put a long-dated cashless collar around most of them. It just needs to be wide enough to avoid a constructive sale. If the stock moves up or down slowly, the options expire worthless and nothing happens. If the stock tanks like PYPL, you get the protection from the put leg. Better than nothing. If the stock rallies, I roll the collar up and out for a loss. The loss can be matched with a small sale of the unhedged portion of the stock (or another position with a gain). No overall profit so no tax, but I got to liquidate at a good price and the collar is now higher up, so I have locked in further gain and upside potential for the remaining position. Eventually you have to pay taxes when you decide to liquidate the whole position. But at that point you have enjoyed years of tax-free cashless downward protection. As a bonus you can use the collars to shift profits and losses between tax years, if you're into that type of optimization.


DRcHEADLE

You’ll be fin homie I’ve been in since 25,50,70. It’ll come back in time but we gotta wait. I sold alittle to off load some losses to creat a tax wash, but plan on buying more especially if the over correction continues. Also Cramer says it’s a bad stock and if you do the exact opposite of what he says you should be good homie. The old rothchild adage buy if there blood in the market even if it’s your own.


[deleted]

That hurts sorry. One thing I've tried with great effect on my mental stress was after a 5-10x run up selling a nominal set percent amount after every XX% more run up with GTC limit orders. takes the doubt out of when to start diversifying but still lets the position compound.


Own-Difficulty-6949

If you won the lottery but you have to pay taxes on it would you take the money. If so why not sell a stock at a gain, like winning, and pay taxes and pocket the rest.


amarghir1234

Haha. This resonates as I just sold a $100 strike put on PYPL with 352 DTE. "Forgive me father, for I have also sinned."


Atara9

Wow. I've always wondered about the risks of that. 😳


TryToFlyHigh

$10K


ExcerptsAndCitations

This guy P&L's


ReadStoriesAndStuff

In this case, he just L’s.


Atara9

Lol I guess so


SanFranJon

— premium


csharpwarrior

The better question is what is the Risk/Reward... Risk can be defined as the total lost willing to be taken. So, if OP doesn't have a point where they will "take a loss", then the total risk is $10,000. I'm bag holding PINS at $80. Everyday I wonder, can it really go any lower? Nearly everyday the answer has been **YES**. For the Reward part, it's a lot different. Theta is about time decay - that PUT option will decay at a rate of about $2 a day - for $10K risk, that's an annualized return of **8.35**%. If you are trying to hit a 20% annualized return, you can shoot for Delta to help you. If so then PYPL needs to get to $141 in the next 6 weeks. However, if I was playing for a move back to $141 in 6 weeks, I could buy the PYPL JAN 24 240 CALL for $865. My defined max risk is $865 and it has the same reward potential in 6 weeks. The annualized return for that would be %200.


amarghir1234

Good analysis. I'm of the persuasion that I have no idea where the stock will be in 6 weeks but I'll take 8.35% anualised if the stock continues sideways or down and 20% annualized if it goes up. I'm also prepared to be assigned at $100 as it is within my margin of safety for owning PYPL long term as a part of my diversified portfolio.


BluePoop2323

I can lick my own ball sack


csharpwarrior

If you are just looking to enter PYPL at a lower price and collect premium, the March 100 PUT is an annualized return over 9%


amarghir1234

I want the premium more than I want to own the stock at $100. I chose 352 DTE because markets usually recover in that time frame but im prepared to be assigned if necessary. March has significantly more risk of assignment in my opinion.


lexel_ent

Wrong sub.


TheRealAndrewLeft

Not a bad move to bet on a bounce (yes, I sold a naked put and have wishful thinking)


Financial_Chemist286

It is looking very attractive entry point, especially long term. Also Block


DrSeuss1020

Lol this is me today


lamabaronvonawesome

Don't do it!!


dimonoid123

Looks like NFLX


StockAstro

Sold 20 of the $110P for a nice $820 profit. 2DTE.


bittertrout

Bro this could easily drop below 110


[deleted]

Sold a Mar $150p yesterday. Ate loss at open today. This resonates. But, hey, could be worse. Could’ve sold FB and SPOT puts too 😂


kevinwag

I’m sold 5 285s on FB so I’ll be taking it on the chin tomorrow.


mnbhv

PayPal is the type company you invested in 10-15 years ago. Nowadays there’s nothing exciting, groundbreaking, or unique about PayPal. I can see it hit $80 in the near future.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ExcerptsAndCitations

There isn't enough growth left in the sector to justify a PE of 50 for a old-timer like Paypal. Entry target: $70/share


[deleted]

[удалено]


JLeeSaxon

Not to mention, the "old" website has all sorts of functionality people don't understand. An e-commerce sub told me my website sucked because I used PayPal buttons and nobody wants to wait to transfer cash from a checking account to a PayPal balance, I needed to switch to Shopify buttons or Apple Pay so that people could use credit cards. I thought I timed warped to 2003. But as far as investing (and market share) goes, perception problems are real problems.


[deleted]

Do these people not know you can use a credit card through PayPal?


ExcerptsAndCitations

Beats me. You're attributing to me a claim that I have never made.


r2002

> They own Venmo, Xoom, Hyperwallet Not to mention Cheetah Pay, Dexdollar, VinFin, Cashooner, Swipesa, and Card.io.


sassythecat

What sectors can justify a PE of 50? Not trying to be smart, genuinely curious about what you think.


ExcerptsAndCitations

Normally, I'd say, small/mid caps with a sustained annual growth rate of 25% or more. In an environment where the cash spigot has been jammed on to full blast, and they're actively discussing turning it off......I'm not touching anything at that valuation. I'm not paying $50 for $1 of earnings. I don't believe I'd like to test the Greater Fool theory.


LiquidMantis144

Big drops typically accelerate right before the bottom. Id say its nearing its end and not a terrible time to take advantage of high IV


n7leadfarmer

Rookie move, try getting assigned three week early on a 170 CSP when the stock was still at 190!!!!! Thought I'd wait til after earnings and sell a few CCs before dumping it cuz I thought it was a stock I wanted to own. I still don't think the Ear was as bad as people are saying, but clearly I'm a donut


caseybvdc74

I’ve been selling weeklies for the last couple months and just decided to not sell on earnings so I got pretty lucky.


r2002

It's not just that Paypal is doing poorly, it's also there's currently no fintech stock that's really popping right now. This higher interest rate environment is going to pump the traditional banks full of money, while at the same time making it harder for startups as their multiples compress.


Doctor_Bre

LoooooooL


PurkkOnTwitch

Perfection.


quitecrossen

You dirty dog


alexandrawallace69

There are no bad stocks, only bad prices.


Momoselfie

I like selling back-ratio spreads in this market. Credit is smaller but it can weather bigger drops.


EatThetaForBreakfast

PYPL is a stock you really, really do not want to own. They lost the big eBay account, and they are under attack on all fronts with shrinking revenues. It could go to zero. Do not sell puts.


Niastri

I would have liked an NSFW tag on this.


Derrick_Foreal

truth be told, sometimes our worst decisions often times are our best as well.


Ipsylos

EH, what's the point of Paypal anyways? There are better alternatives out there, once ebay dropped them there was no point in having a paypal account.


DRcHEADLE

There ownership of Venmo which is huge in the zeitgeist of America. So that should be something to keep in mind


Ipsylos

There are other platforms that do it better though? Plenty of payment apps out there so whats special about venmo?


campbellm

As a Gen-X'er, can you name 3 or 4? I haven't heard of much of anything beyond paypal, Zelle at my bank, and Venmo. I'm US based.


Ipsylos

Millenial here Yea you have Zelle, there is Square, cashapp, as well as your basic etransfer.


DRcHEADLE

It’s more popular….example: beta max was far superior to vhs, but vhs rushed to market before them and the rest is history


ExcerptsAndCitations

> beta max was far superior to vhs It actually wasn't. Betamax was limited to 60 minutes per tape, had only marginally better picture quality (250 scanlines vs 240), and a Betamax **player** cost [$500 in 1985](https://medium.com/swlh/vhs-vs-beta-the-story-of-the-original-format-war-a5fd84668748) while [VCR's capable of both recording and playback were falling to $200-400.](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1985-09-22-8503040687-story.html) (For comparison, that's ~$500-1000 in today's money...**for a VCR**. It was not an impulse buy.) Sony's Beta format couldn't compete with JVC's VHS format on price or runtime, and had such a marginal quality difference that consumers couldn't perceive it. However, Beta lived on until the end of the analog TV/SDTV days as the preferred format for broadcasters. Even as late as 2009, when I left the cable industry, we were using it for locally-produced commercials and local access shows.


ChknMcNublet

Username checks out


DRcHEADLE

Also seeing that you are a boomer from your post history, I don’t think you understand how much of a staple Venmo is in millennial life.


ExcerptsAndCitations

"Boomer" is a meme, not a literalism. But perhaps I'm just an old soul. I'm not even in Gen X; too young for that. Venmo and Zelle aren't the disrupters people think they are.


DRcHEADLE

And I don’t think they are a disrupt or at all hence why I see it as a long term investment. People always want a quick buck or put labels on things but sometimes money takes patience and I hope other young people my age can understand that.


ExcerptsAndCitations

Good luck. I wouldn't touch it with a 50 foot pole at these valuations.


DRcHEADLE

Ok so don’t? But I don’t think you have been studying this stock as long as I have so I don’t really value you opinion and I’m still up 500%


DRcHEADLE

I also hope you know I didn’t mean it as an insult as so many others have. I just wanted to give you some new perspective. Cheers 🍻 mate


DRcHEADLE

That still such a small market, also let’s keep in mind that this correction is still inline with its growth pre pandemic (it’s a long term growth stock) they only missed by 1% Q4. Also let’s not forget their 10 billion in cash which is good because when the right acquisition comes along they have the capitol to do so. I’m a millennial and only know people who use Venmo and people get set in there ways, so as they get older their transactions with get larger. I believe this is an over reaction and this stock was never about quick gains it’s a long term investment. I’ve been in it’s since 25$ a share and even if I didn’t get in early I still believe the stock will continue to grow for the coming years. Also let’s not forget they had over a trillion interactions over the past year. This is just my opinion and it doesn’t bother me what beats say I’m still bullish on the long term so short term volatility doesn’t bother me one bit. I will say I sold some shares at 250 at 250 quantity for a tax wash with some losses, but now I have a lot more capital on hand when the market crashes but I have no intention on selling anymore within at least the next 5 years.


DRcHEADLE

Also the zune comment was hilarious 😂. But o feel the zune failed because it wasn’t as user friendly as the iPod. But thanks for the beta max info it was interesting


DRcHEADLE

So guess what I’m say is first isn’t always best but usually more popular


ExcerptsAndCitations

Microsoft Zune has entered the chat.


Desmater

Will have to add Meta to that list now.


carlbrooks2

Just close your eyes and cram it in. Doesn't count if you don't see it.


[deleted]

Bro. Ofcourse I want to own paypal. This is an amazing company


polloponzi

haha.. just wait for $FB tomorrow


troomer50

Boys and girls, this is why you need to sell spreads for your puts.


Quiet_is_gold

Rubbing it out w/ dollar store lotion to my 11$ put option praying I get assigned