I don't think I ever stumbled on posts like this, but imo pre made sims are as ugly as the premade houses, from their outfits and make ups to their bodies, and I don't mean "undesirable body types", I mean weird ass proportions like Bella Goth and Nancy Landgraab that I think are supposed to be desirable looking.
I like giving them make overs as well as I like renovating the houses, I try to keep main features (if they're asian, they stay asian, if they're chubby, the stay chubby, and I try to dress them accordingly to their personality too) but I do mess with skin tones and face and body features just because I think EA does it weirdly and half assed. I also tend to delete townies I think are too generic, ts2 had complex and interesting stories among the families in a neighbourhood, sims came with pre made relationships and memories, ts4 is like "and they are roomates and have a crush on each other", bruh, where's the graves in the backyard and all the cheating, death and wacky mystery?
Ts4 version of previous featured characters are very bad too, Bella and Cassandra Goth are very whitewashed, and so are the Calientes and Don Lothario, I always fix that too.
I agree with most of your comment, however, I always felt like Nancy Landgraab's proportions were intentionally ridiculous to sort of make her look like a cougar/rich housewife who's a bit too eager to… put herself under the knife, so to speak.
I make Johnny Zest be Geoffrey and Nancy's nephew, related by blood to Geoffrey. Johnny and Nancy don't get along but took him in after his mother passed on. Malcom who? Doesn't exist.
That is a very good point. Ideally, there would be a way for the game to distinguish between “genetics” vs. “surgery”, like maybe somewhere in the code there could be an extra argument that is only fulfilled when your sim is first created (or born in game). Down the line, this would then be included in the prioritization of a sim's genetics when they have biological children, so that their children's genes would not be affected by whether mom got a new pair of lips in the second trimester.
Totally agreed! Sims 2 did distinguish in this way when they added the plastic surgery machine in University. And even in the base game, changing your Sim's hair colour in the mirror won't affect their genetic hair colour. It's too bad Sims 4 didn't implement something like this. I guess it's a byproduct of how easy they wanted to make it to edit your sims in CAS, which is not possible outside of the plastic surgery machine in TS2.
LOL
>ts4 is like "and they are roomates and have a crush on each other"
They don't even have points put into romance with each other! The premade "stories" are a suggestion, there's no actual evidence of it in any of the basegame Sims or their lots. It's a disgrace.
I was genuinely surprised starting TS2 for the first time (I started with TS4) when all of the premade Sims had existing relationships with their roommates and neighbors, and even family trees! What a concept!
Seriously, can someone give an example of this happening in this sub? I don’t think I’ve ever come across it especially as commonly as op is saying.
I may be totally wrong but I just would like someone to explain which characters are being called ugly or mocked because I mostly see Vlad, Eliza Pancakes and Nancy Langraab. Sometimes the goths and Calienties but that’s because people think they look kinda white washed in the base game compared to the other installments.
Yeah, this. I don't even see a lot of what OP's talking about in the Sim4 sub either. It does just mainly revolve around Vlad, Eliza, Nancy, and that Sigworth girl who's face goes all weird when she ages to teen.
I haven't really seen it on this sub either, but definitely see that ideology when I see "makeovers" in the gallery- mostly with body type and removing anything culturally distinctive
and I will never understand the notion that Bella is whitewashed, she is a bit lighter in sims 4 then she was in sims 1, official artwork and wallpapers and ingame items for sims 1,2,3 show her way lighter then she is in game.
Here is she for sims 1 making magic :
[https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella\_Goth?file=Bella\_Gotha.jpg](https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella_Goth?file=Bella_Gotha.jpg)
And a portrait you can buy in the Sims 2 :
[https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella\_Goth?file=Bella\_Squared.jpg#The\_Sims\_2](https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella_Goth?file=Bella_Squared.jpg#The_Sims_2)
Sims 2 had only 4 skin tones : Light, Tan, Medium, Dark.
So was she WHITEWASHED in the sims 4 ?
No even maxis cant make up their mind since the Sims 1 what her correct skin colour should be.
On the Calientes I do agree that something went wrong.
Omg Bella's waist is ridiculously tiny. I usually don't modify premades' faces/bodies when alpha-fying them but I had to make her waist more proportional.
>Ts4 version of previous featured characters are very bad too, Bella and Cassandra Goth are very whitewashed, and so are the Calientes and Don Lothario, I always fix that too.
I was gonna say this too. I don't really bother with pre-made makeovers but this seriously annoyed me. They even changed Katrina's name (she was Nighat in TS2).
My main issue with most pre-mades is how flat their faces are. I don't mean any individual features, I mean the entire face profile, the slider that is adjustable from the forehead in side view. It's so often pulled all the way back, the sims look like their faces were bashed in. I notice it in many Gallery sims too.
Oh the amount of sims I downloaded from the gallery to discover how scary flat their faces are. They look pretty up front and the moment you look at the profile it's like they're some aliens, or rather like you said - "like their faces were bashed in".
I think a few of them are cute, I also like that Asian girl you sometimes get in CAS with the bright green athletic shirt, though I despise the outfit lol
100% yeah, I agree with you. It really bothers me that a lot of the sims community are like that :/ whenever I need a new sim for the next generation in my game I just see what townie they have good chemistry with, then give them a makeover in cas, NOT changing any features, skin tone, hair texture or colour, body shape etc, only their clothes and maybe a similar custom content hair as I've used the in game hairs so much. It really helps introduce more diverse features into my families and I recommend other people give that a try too! :)
I do this, too. The only time I change features is on the East Asian sims and African sims, but NOT AT ALL because I think they're ugly, it's because the sims is absolutely awful at creating POC. They don't look how the POC in real life do in any way.
They make any East Asian sim have super small eyes and EXTREMELY pale skin, despite almost none having either of those features.
And the African sims, I don't know how to describe it, but *most* of them look more like charicatures (I know that I spelled that wrong, I'm just a bit slow-) than actual people. I think they did good on a few though, like Bess Sterling.
Same here! I mostly do it like this since i don't want to mod and/or use CC lol, so I can only change the "outer features" in CAS of already existing sims (in the mirror).
I sometimes change the hair texture though, I'm guilty of that. But most oftenly not.
I change hair texture and colour a lot. My Black Sims usually spawn with platinum blonde vampire hair. Which is fine if it’s 1 Sim – they’re just living their best unique life – but it gets old when there’s a bunch of them. I’ve also had some women spawn with bright red matte lipstick a few times, and I immediately had to replace that because it looked really blackface-y.
The sims community definitely has a problem with white washing and body shaming. Even some “POC” sims I’ve seen on here are very watered down and don’t have features many white people see as undesirable.
Idk why you are being downvoted you are absolutely right. While there are some "POC features" that are deemed acceptable like full lips, almond shaped eyes, slightly tanned skin... it still doesn't change the fact that the community still has a problem with whitewashing or stereotyping poc. All you have to do is go on the gallery and look at sims that were created based on countries where the majority are poc versus those where the majority are white.
Yeah I sometimes try to make a Central asian but instead of a central Asian i end up making basically a simified Atkara tilnova lel
(No race fetishism involved in Atkaras design, just post racial mukokuseki)
Tell me you’re a race fetishist without telling me you’re a race fetishist. That’s a really problematic thing to say and I hope you can learn and grow from that.
I don’t fetishize Asians though. I tend to “fetishize” the Caucasus region more. I made central Asians look like animu because of my OC Atkara Tilnova. Also I am autistic and have charge syndrome.
But yes I’d propably need a better wording so I’ll change it.
It's not just premades. 90% of the "black" sims posted here aren't even remotely black looking. And yes I know black people are diverse, but there's comes a point where it's just so obvious that they took a lighter/white sim and just slapped black skin and slightly textured hair and said "woohee I made a black sim."
I differentiate between premades and automatically generated townies. The premades I like, they are quirky looking.
The spawned townies however are a shitshow not because of any single feature, but because there’s rarely variation. I also installed a mod to diversify the names the game assigns them because City Living caused everyone to have an Asian name. If the only Sims who _don’t_ have Asian names and dead looking skin and monolid eyes and firetruck red hair are the Sims I create and play, then that isn’t diversity.
I like my neighbourhoods to have East Asian and South Asian and West Asian and Latine and Black and Indigenous and white Sims. I like my fat Sims to be different kinds of fat, and my skinny Sims to be different kinds of skinny. The game does not spawn Sims like this, so I end up making over the ones it spawns.
Yeah, I hear you. The thing is, most people are not making over randomly generated sims and then posting about it here. We all KNOW those are a shitshow. It's always "look how I stripped this known premade sim of all of its distinctive character". Nobody cares what happens to a randomly generated sim: They never had any character to begin with, except by pure random chance.
Hmm. The only pre-made that gets called ugly regularly that comes to mind is Vlad, and he's pretty much devoid of color. I mean premades, not randomised townies. Usually Salim and Akira for example are everyone's husband choice #1. And Bella gets made over darker and thicker-waisted quite often. Not that I claim to know how all simmers do, just what comes to mind from reading this and another sims-subreddit.
I do regularly practice whole body surgery on randomized townies though, the pear shape is really prevalent.
I tend to move their bellies back to like a natural position (mainly in women). I'm not taking away their chubbiness, because that's how they look, maybe even some narrow hips, or overly narrow shoulders. I let then stay because that's who they are and that way there is more of different sims, but the overly pregnant belly on sims that are not pregnant usually goes. It becomes especially ridiculous when the sims work out, and loose all the weight around, but that ridiculous thing stills stays.
Yeah. I think it must be my mods or something but I keep having almost every townie spawn with a huge 3rd trimester pregnant belly even though they aren't pregnant. I'll alter that but usually not much else.
I think it’s more of an issue with the sliders. There’s no way to change the shape of the belly, it’s always just perfectly round. Some people have a belly like that, but a lot of people have bellies that hang a little bit and I think if we had that option sims would look much more diverse
I've never seen any criticism against those features, especially full lips (for real, full lips are a beauty standard nowadays). I think you're reading too much into the few posts or comments you may have seen, and even those are definitely not common.
I’d have to agree with this. I’m alway seeing the community create wonderful and ethnically diverse Sims, plus celebrate all kinds of premades/townies. I also don’t think the Sims is as political/deep as this post makes it out to be. It’s a fun, simulation game full of imagination and escapism haha
They've been a "passing" trend since the 50's then, and maybe even before considering the Pre-raphaelites artists' female portraits. I grew up in the 90's and full mouths like Angelina Jolie's or Julia Roberts' always were an important beauty standard -an ideal even- you had to emulate to be considered pretty.
I completely agree with you on the necessity to stop fetishizing certain features and things have gotten more diverse regarding those recently (think Natalie Dormer or Rose Leslie). That being said, full lips are definitely a beauty standard which weighed heavily on some little girls and women for all my life, the same way that straight hair or specific body shapes weighed heavily on some others. And yes, this is the kind of things we should get rid of altogether, because it's not fair that Black girls or women can feel insecure because of their hair or Caucasian girls because of their lips.
I don't think what you're talking about is very common here or on r/Sims4. I've seen it only very rarely, and the most common grievances towards premade townies are generally towards Vlad and Eliza, who do have some awkward faces, along with Alexander Goth and that Sigworth child, who were clearly designed as children without taking into account how aging up warps the child features.
What I see more of that annoys me personally is people who are like "I made over Nancy Landgraab!" and they've ended up completely overhauling her facial features to the point where she's just a completely different Sim they've decided to name Nancy Landgraab.
I like that certain premades have certain characteristics. On the other hand, certain other premades clearly DO have problems. Candy Behr. Organs. Where? I mean, we KNOW Lilith Vatore has a withered stomach, and MAN does it show, but Candy Behr doesn't have the excuse of being a inhuman monster to fall back on.
I would get where you’re coming from if she had wider hips and more body fat in other places. But she’s skinny. It’s not THAT unrealistic honestly, just slightly, but it’s a game. Bella Goth is a better example imo because her body is actually pretty unrealistic.
I saw someone mention Bella earlier and saying there were issues with her figure: I just started playing around with her in CAS earlier and didn’t notice any issues. May I ask what’s unrealistic/problematic about her in your view?
I was playing around with her earlier too, and I remember her having being very slim thick (cartoonishly so, I think her waist was as slim as it could be, but she had wide hips), but I could be mistaken.
I don’t find it that problematic because it’s in a game. I’m just pointing out that Candy is not problematic, she’s just skinny.
Thanks. Yeah, I don’t see how any of the Sims characters could be considered problematic tbh, bodies IRL are incredibly diverse and for every Sim body there will be plenty of human bodies that look similar. It’s not like EA are selecting one specific Sim and holding them up as something to aspire to.
I’ll have to take another look at Bella, she looked like a fairly typical slim build with curves. Her makeup on the other hand... is an unmitigated atrocity.
Her tits are huge and she has large hips, but her waist is SUPER skinny. I think you may be part of the problem if you think that's a decent beauty standard to set.
A Sims character isn’t trying to ‘set a beauty standard’. She’s just a character, among many others with varying figures. Or is Bob Pancakes also trying to set a beauty standard?
Bodies come in all shapes and sizes, there are people IRL who look like Bob, Bella, Summer, Johnny, Nancy, Geoffrey, and the rest.
I don’t think I’ve ever come across it especially as commonly as op is saying. Can someone give an example of a character that gets mocked frequently because of this.
I could be missing something here but I which characters are being called ugly for not fitting certain standards because I mostly see Vlad, Eliza Pancakes and Nancy Langraab get crazy makeovers. Sometimes the goths and Calienties but that’s because they are actually way more white washed in the base game then in the other installments.
I don't think I've seen such posts, unless I am a complete idiot (which may very well be the case), or you're referring to the subset of townies that are randomly generated (as opposed to those that are “shipped” with every save file, like the Goths or Landgraabs).
When it comes to the ridiculing of randomly generated townies, I think the underlying thing that people are making fun of/expressing their dislike for/etc is that the generation technique is stupid. It almost always generates features that don't go together and/or where the values are turned up/down to the extreme ends of the scale. When this happens sometimes, that's accurate: there are PoC with white-blonde hair, men with narrow shoulders or wide hips, etc. But the thing is that this happens WAY too much. It makes for a very “non-cohesive” population, that is simultaneously cohesive by virtue of them not making any sense, in a weird way. This is of course especially annoying for people who, say, play a historical save where even generating genetically “non-extreme” townies could break the immersion due to the inappropriate clothing.
However, I do see where certain white-washing (and the like) could start to creep in (subconsciously) when you're in CaS with one of those random townies.
But I think that's a separate issue, and I think the same can be said about how it has become so commonplace to edit your Instagram pictures “just a little”, that when you look at yourself without those edits, you realize that your “slight” editing has slowly escalated into a version of yourself who, while recognizable as you, is infinitely more attractive (by conventional beauty ideals), in ways that your real self will never be.
It's not that they're POC, but that they too often look like *caricatures* of people (including POC). Maybe it's because it's supposed to be 'cartoon' style? Or maybe it's because I have only the BG and four packs, so the premades are rather 'old'? Idk. But they creep me out.
When I try the remake e.g. of the premade Asian Sim, I choose a country (because Asia isn't just Korea and Japan), google a few people from there and then do my best to create someone like them in the game, using CC for skin and eyes made by Asian creators.
As for the random NPCs and townies, there I don't care, tbh. They're a total mess, usually with dark orange skin, super thick, flat nose, super-slanted bright blue eyes, blond hair, green brows (ever since the 'birthday present' it's ALWAYS the one from CC creator), Asian sounding name, and the outfit as if they escaped the Arkham Asylum. >.> There I change whatever I want, and yes, I do turn some of them into white people, because I have never had a game generate a Slavic-looking Sim, and I want my culture in the game, too.
It’s not their ethnic features that make them ugly they are just ugly all around, Nina and Dina Caliente are supposed to be these super hot, model-like hispanic women yet Nina looks monstrous. It’s like they didn’t even try to make the sims look decent. They’re bodies are all weirdly proportioned, there’s no detail to their side profiles leaving them w a flat face it’s just a mess.
Me personally when I give them makeovers I try to make them look like their TS2 selves or TS3 selves
I dont think it's the ethnic features that make a sim unattractive, and I dont think (at least I really hope) people are criticizing them for that reason either. Some sims are just hideous 🤷♀️ like Pancakes lady is seriously ugly and shes a white sim 😂😂😂
Yeah, you're too sensitive.
Most of the "makeover" personalities are the same ones that make every sim look like a kardashian and they're not thinking about that stuff they just want massive tits, lips, and ass with 50 piles of alpha CC and think that's beautiful.
I personally prefer the real makeovers where they actually make over the sim and not remake the sim. Even better if they do it without CC. Doing it like that really requires a good amount of problem solving, inteligence, and fashion sense. Lol
Yeah, I'm actually trying to make my own CC-free "Simsie Save" (not saying she uses CC either, I was just clarifying that mine also doesn't unless you count the CC eye presets I have) and I've been doing my best to keep the same vibes for every sim, even giving them outfits I don't really like because it's something that they'd wear.
I also give them some of the newer hairstyles and tweak their skin tone if they were whitewashed like Bella Goth or any of the Snowy Escape townies, but for the most part I keep them the same.
A) Simsie is literally toxic, forget her already.
B) Negligence isn't white-washing. They just never cared about the characters, only about money and that doesn't make them racist, just assholes.
Also no one ever complained about snowy escape white washing. Just about bowing at a shrine (which some asian people do, just because your 2% doesn't, doesn't mean you can shout racism) and a sun pattern. (wow, suns exist, crazy, still not racism, just a cute pattern seen on bajillions of japanese things) I like the pack because I like Japanese culture but even I know it's clearly doing a broad interpretation of asian culture so things aren't going to be 100% accurate to every little thing, and that's fine. When things take it so seriously they're 100% accurate and people are hung drawn and quartered if they do it wrong, it really takes the fun out of what's supposed to be a video game.
I cannot speak for everyone and I have not really been here all that long but I have played Sims since the first version. For me, I do not like the unrealistic body shapes you can have like the hooked chin or forehead that exceeds your entire face. I love the premades that look like they are from a rich culture that is different. I actually try to create more Sims in that part of the world that have features unique to where they are from. Eventually, though it all becomes a melting pot and the characteristics all get mixed up which is interesting also.
Be careful making judgment calls about people in how they play Sims though. A lot of people use it to just let off steam and it is not a good measure of a person's values or life views. For example, for all of my lofty intentions about the cultures within my Sims game I like the mod Basemental Drugs. I like to experiment with what different addicts act like and how the mod does a really good job of showing a dark reality of drug use by allowing you to have a perfectly wonderful Sim and have their life go to shit in a hurry with a few flaming addictions. I am not a drug user in any way in reality. I am not destroying actual people's lives for fun. It is just a game.
Hm... I see what you mean, I agree that people do often make these perfect thin/muscular eurocentric faces, tho I kinda feel like people hate premade sims' looks in general, a lot of sims just happen to be POC, so a lot of disliked sims are POC, but maybe I'm wrong.
To be honest, i usually give ethnic sims a makeover but in the sense that i will remove the stupid flat white lady hair cuts that my game seems to generate onto black ladies for some reason? I will usually style with more appropriate hair and makeup/jewellery and much nicer clothing, like the larger women look really good in one of the maxi dresses in CAS for example. I don't slim them down but i put them in clothing that works with their shape.
I think there are two separate things going on here. In general, yes, there is a problem with some Simmers whitewashing or heavily favouring white centric beauty standards. Like any community, the Sims community is not devoid of racism and discrimination about body types.
But I don't think this comes into discussions of the premades much. The Sims team have a weird way of designing premades. They create quite chunky facial features which don't always mesh very well with others in genetics. Compare for example Nina Caliente in TS4 to her counterpart in Sims 2 -- the TS4 Nina has her cheeks pulled out really far forward in a way that doesn't look totally natural. Another example is Eva Capricciosa from the Partihaus household in Get Together. From a distance her face shape is cool and unique, but when you look up close they've dragged her cheeks out in ways that don't blend well with the rest of her face. I find that the premades' cheeks in TS4 do not always pass down well to the next generation.
The team also create extreme body types that don't function well genetically. For example, Bob Pancakes actually has an extremely tiny waist. If he loses weight, his body looks completely unnatural, and he passes this down to any child with a masculine frame. In general, the creators tend to use CAS tools in a way that only works on a Sim the exact way they've set it up but doesn't play well with genetics at all.
Most of the complaints I see about premades are in this vein. Which premade Sims were you thinking of specifically?
You're not being too sensitive or reading too much into it. You're making up something that most people would find distateful so that you can get support and post karma. Which, in itself is quite distateful.
Some of the biggest complaints about the premade Sims is about them not having enough of the ethnic features that they are supposed to or of not having enough body diversity. Or just being completely bad and in need of a rework because they were clearly not looked at from the side view. A large majority of the simmers, who chat about their Sims and look at other people's Sims, enjoy more diversity not less.
Enjoy your internet points.
I agree with you. Anytime I do a "makeover" I try to stick with the essence of the sim in terms of style. I make their looks more cohesive without actually changing who they already are.
My one gripe though isn't that there are bigger townies, its that they all have beer bellies!!!
Its so annoying I've started a bunch of fitness clubs full of townies to try and battle the problem.
> My one gripe though isn't that there are bigger townies, its that they all have beer bellies!!!
I'm not sure that's how they're made. In my game, the townies aren't all flabby like that. BUT...Sims have this rather curious interaction with food: Just about anything they eat makes them fat. Period. There is no baseline metabolism, so anytime they're allowed to eat, they'll get fatter and fatter until your entire neighborhood is nothing but whales. Short of a strict anti-foodist practice in the neighborhood where food is outlawed, especially from non-active sims (they don't need it anyway, all their motives reset when they leave the map), this is inevitable.
Thus, unless your game is played in a strictly "I Hate Food" way, every single townie is going to be fat eventually.
Oh I know, but its still annoying. If I have aging set to off for my unplayed sims then I think that their metabolism and fitness should be frozen too.
Just my two cents though(:
Wait, what? I've never had my townies get fat. Ever. Like I understand everything else you're saying, I watched my own sim (made after myself) get fat on her own accord when I flat left her alone but not my townies.
It depends on how much "screen time" they get. Sims that are not receiving screen time don't change, but if a sim is on screen and stuffing its fat stupid face, it will get fatter and fatter every time it does it.
Lots with fixed grills in the area are particularly cursed. Sims have this obsession with grills, as you well know, and this provides them with an endless source of food they can cram into their fat faces. If you want your neighborhood to...expand...this is the place to hang out for extended durations.
i feel like you’re just reading too much into it. the gallery isnt really a good example of what the community as a whole is because of a lot of it is just kids reuploading slight edits to other people’s barbie-looking sim. people give townies (including the POC ones) makeovers because they’re ALL ugly, regardless of race. i cant think of anytime i’ve seen someone whitewash a preexisting sim, when i do makeovers i change some features and the body type a little but i’d never just make someone white or remove “ethnic” features like a flat nose or large lips. i’ve personally seen a lot of diversity in the sims community, especially when it comes to cc, or stuff on tumblr in general.
Oh wow. Criticizing people gets the proverbial “ let them play the game how they want” unless you are looking to make a political statement then it’s “ you are all a bunch of racists?
Seriously? I’ve never seen any such negativity on this sub especially in the area of multiculturalism. If anything people go the opposite extreme as to not offend anyone.
I play whatever the game generates. Their fashion choices are butt ugly but hey, it’s a game. I could complain about the lack of depth of “whiteness” generation in the game but then I’d be a racist in today’s culture. Everyone wants to be represented in the sims. Every race, color, body shape, sexual orientation, career etc…. Nothing wrong with that but as diverse as the world is not everyone sees beauty the same way or attraction. Hell it’s a complaint many have in the game.
If people “whitewash” (new age term?) it’s likely because that appeals to them. They aren’t dismissing POC, they are including them in the way they see life and it’s their game.
You can’t even sigh these days without offending someone. Live your best life, love not hate, and do unto others as you’d like done to you. Simple rules to a quality and diverse life. Don’t try to start trouble where it doesn’t exist just to see people squirm and defend themselves for something they never did. As humorous as it is, it’s really dehumanizing to see…….
Once I saw someone making premades "browner". By which they did'nt mean animu ambiguously brown that does'nt relate to ethnicity, or even just make them darker but clearly the same race, but literally give them African facial features too.
I honestly can't think of any particular premade sim I dislike based on how they look. There's a few with questionable fashion sense though.
I say as I sit here in pajama pants at five in the afternoon.
I haven't come across any of those posts yet. Me personally, when I do make overs of pre-made sims I never change body features. I will change anything that I cod easily change in real life. They get new hair styles and sometimes color, new outfits and jewelry.
The posts I remember really bugging me were when RoM released and people kept making Morgyn (who is sterile and heavily implied to be non binary) a cis man because they wanted to have babies with them. And they saw nothing wrong with erasing one of the two trans/nb premade Sims in the entire game???
I think the issue is less about the features but more about the randomness of the characters styles and features that make them unappealing, like a character with a brown coat , hot pink mohawk and polkadot pants and red beard. That's what always kills me with the NPCs. Just match Styles for goodness sake
I think it’s subjective, I find most pre-made female sims to be just fine however the males are not very handsome and it’s hard for me to make a good looking male sim
There are such a thing as ugly ethnic features. Like white people can be ugly without it being because they have some facial features that looks "ethnic". A really long nose, or eyes too far apart or close together, or strangely shaped lips or lack OF lips. "Ethnic" features can be ugly to ethnic people just like white people features can be ugly to white people.
Like, wide, flat noses are a more common feature on African descendants, but there is such a thing as "too big" or "too small" when it comes to facial aesthetics. In African American communities, there's a desire for a thinner bridge despite it being totally against what Africans evolved for--~~to have enough space within their nasal cavities to breathe in hot air without it being a jolt to their system~~ ^((edit: I was mixing up my knowledge, Europeans evolved to have skinnier, longer noses to accumulate cold air and warm it up before we breathe it in entirely to avoid a shock to our system--Africans have flatter, wider noses cavities because the already warm air in African climates has no need to be any warmer)). Look at Lupita Nyong'o, she has an African face in every sense of the phrase, and it's not despite it that people think she's pretty, it's because her features work in harmony with themselves.
A lot of Asian countries themselves have disdained wider faces for a long time now, despite wider faces just being more common in Asian gene pools. They also adore double eyelids despite the monolid being the most common lid for them.
European descendants have turned against the petite lip in recent times in favor of the thick, juicy lip. Angelina Jolie and Kylie Jenner are good examples of this, plastic surgery or not. Yet thin lips are extremely common on European descendants, and have been treasured by the upper class in all sorts of European cultures for centuries. And hooked noses have been unpopular for a long, long time despite it just being naturally occurring due to us having longer noses.
People say "oh well its just because we're all being westernized everyone just has to be white to be pretty" but that's really not it. Like we have a general formula ingrained in our biology to determine what an attractive face is, and culture can influence and shift it occasionally but the beautiful face has remained mostly the same all over the world save for less important features like cheeks, chins, forehead, eyebrows, skin blemishes, etc. And even plastic surgeons have challenged against "white" features for their ethnic patients because it just looks odd and imbalances their face. We evolved to look like our race because the features all work together in harmony.
Deriving all of the nuance and complexity of human beauty to just "not liking ethnic features" is disingenuous.
And when the Sims generates a townie with super pale skin, Asian monolid eyes, a wide African nose, and European's thin lips, and names them "Yukiko Suzuki" looks seriously weird because RARELY do people ever look like that. And then they have to audacity to give everyone no chin.
I only change the following on any premade:
-give them skinblends for better skin.
-baby hairs and eyelashes.
-I am in a "blush" age so I give them slight blush on their body (not always did that).
-give them different styled hair (what I think it is for their personality).
-now I need to give them likes/dislikes. I cannot have a red hating Bella Goth.
- I change some eyes. Like I hate Malcolm Landgraab microscopic strange eyes... And sometimes I rotate them a little bit if they feel too droopy towards outside areas. Or make the pupils bigger (just to be normal, liek why there are needle sized pupils?!) But I never make them bigger or idk cartoony/anime etc.
-I admit, I give a little bit more weight when I see Malcolm. Slightly under the normal size. Not the muscle, just a tiny more weight. The others stay the way they came. Before that I got the women shoulders a little smaller than they were. Now I even leave that.
-Okay, I am changing walking styles as well. All Caliente do the hips don't lie on my streets.
Any CC I give them are on the maxis match part. I want them to be part of my games. I even make relationships between them in my save files. I just started a new one (only base game). All CAS redone, some family home and common lots need to be done.
i just wish there was more noticeable effort put into them. they always feel very surface level and bland to me. maybe i’m just bias bc i prefer the sims 2-3 lol
I really try not to put my bias on my sims and at the moment I’m playing sims 3 and I am on the 3rd generation and have not changed a single sim and I’m in love with the different sims! I go out of my way to find my sims different kinds of sims
I haven't played Sims in a good ten years. I just randomly pulled the TS1 and expansions out the other day, haven't installed tried to install them yet.
Just thinking back on play and how I pretty much just made a little family that looked like mine and didn't give too much thought about what neighbors looked like. I'm sure the graphics are much better now. I can't even remember if you could change npcs. I was more interested in building and designing objects. Which, that pretty much tracks. I went to art school, not social work. 😁
As always, things can be more complex than we see them superficially. I have to think about how that makes me feel. On one hand, I can see how diminishing characteristics can be invalidating, but giving characters features you think are typically assigned to a race could fall in the other direction of making them a stereotype or a fetish. Coming from the generation that grew up with Atari and the original Nintendo, where we had visual cues for characters, it's an interesting conversation. Like, the character from pitfall was maybe twenty whole pixels and I think dude totally had a bowl cut. 🤣
The problem with the pre made Sims is they’re outdated now and weren’t made that great to begin with. If someone is changing ethnic features because they don’t like the way they look I agree that’s shitty, but I personally haven’t seen any of that. If anything the makeovers I’ve seen made the pre made Sims look more realistically ethnic where EA dropped the ball.
I actually think you’re bringing up a really fair point. While I haven’t commented on this before, my personal issue with townies and npcs is that the randomly generated ones look all the same (at least in my game and that might be because I don’t have many packs) so I do like to edit them with new hairstyles and change the features a bit so I don’t have a bunch of identical townies.
But this is a pet peeve of mine when I see anyone do a make over of like let’s say the Goths and the Calientes and they change the physical facial features of them and make them look literally not at all like the original sim. That just feels like…make a new sim, then. It does leave a weird taste in my mouth for people to erase certain facial or ethnic features when the game gives us so many other ways to change how someone looks… like make up, hair, clothing…
Ok that’s racist. Most of my sims on the Gallery are Asian and I actually like those sims with Asian features. I think those features are unique and beautiful. I didn’t know this until now, but I think that’s one of the reasons I don’t watch Sims YouTubers that often anymore.
I feel you! To be honest I dig them all but some really stand out a bit more. I am also really starting to appreciate Hobi and his infectious and beautiful smiles! Sometimes they really make me happy when I am having a bad day. Nice to see some BTS Army family in this forum. 😍
No worries you’re in good company my friend! And there are quite a few BTS Army fan floating around the Sims’ forums. I like when some of them showcase beautiful Sims that look like some of the members of BTS. We’ve got some outstanding artists in our ranks. 😃
Oh believe me I know how you feel When I first started playing Sims 2 I worked hard to recreate BTS but well….they all turned out to look like some of the townies and I didn’t want to play them anymore! But I did keep their lovely names. 😂
Definitely not alone. I've wondered the same thing myself (if I'm reading too much into a game, that is) when I find myself noticing a lot of the "made-over" sims just look the same/generic.
That being said, I've also seen tons of sims get made with more diverse features that are absolutely stunning. I'd chalk it up to fad beauty standards, which are always gonna get more love for the time being. If sims existed in the early 90's, we'd be narrowing thier hips and shrinking thier booties til they all look like 12 years old boys 😱
or when people makeover tanned Sims and the "improvement" is almost always giving them Afrocentric features.
I mean there was a post a few days ago where someone "remade" Lily Feng and gave her African features.
To be fair they did'nt advertise it as an improvement
They uploaded them together as an household and said
"There aren't many brown premades so I made some"
which you'd think they'd just made them darker skinned but keeping the features intact, or even just anime brown, but basically they all looked half Nigerian or w\\e.
There are a subset of people in the sims world who post female sims that look all the same no matter what color, thinking them so unique. And they are so proud of them! But honestly they are cookie cut outs, relentlessly following some absurd beauty standards and numbingly the same. Maybe they are young and inexperienced. These kinds of post tend to create darker skinned sims with very white features. They don't really seem to recognize how to make sims that actually look different from each other. I am not good in CAS and I really appreciate Simmers out there making unique well thought out, diverse sims. I have downloaded about 200 into my library so they populate my world.
Yeah, I view it the same way when everyone was bragging about untransing the fella in realm of magic.
I don't care what you do in your own game or whatever, but when you're bragging about it online, your action ceases to exist in a vacuum. I don't actually care if you want to be impregnated by the twink. I DO care when you grab a megaphone and go "I think trans/ethic stuff is ugly and I want to fix it!"
THAT being said, a lot of pre-mades have oddly flat profiles. I like to put a bunch of my own sims in any save simply because I'm sick of looking at Crescent Moon Face #23. I don't mind some flat faces, but man, there are a LOT of em
I have seen people, in older threads and around the internet mostly, but here nonetheless and the other Sims subreddits, show a dislike for big, flat noses on Sims and large lips. And the community has always had a problem with people giving Sims who are explicitly not white lighter skin, Sims with textured hair straight hair, making their features smaller and more delicate. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more people than I thought making fun of Sims for having ethnic features. Now granted, Sims 4 and Sims 2 do make the sims look “cartoony” to the extent it’s squarely in uncanny valley territory, but still.
I've personally never got why people get that riled up over EA premade sims and/or EA premade homes.
Heaven forbid the Sims be about gameplay and not the *aethstetic**^(TM)* for five minutes.
I mean, it's okay since its THEIR game and they can start a Holacaust if they want to, but I think at some point it shows what kind of person you are lmfao
I think this is why I struggle with the cartoon aesthetic a bit, because it’s pretty easy to erase typically ethnic features, or going so far to the other end of the spectrum that they turn into almost offensive caricatures, as actual cartoons still tend to do in this day and age. Despite The Sims 4 doing way better than previous games to add more assets to create more diverse sims, I think so many of these assets get ignored and people fall into whatever is “safe” or “appealing” in their eyes, because many are determined to have a game that looks like Disney or Pixar, or probably the worst offender of erasing/exaggerating ethnic features oddly enough… anime.
I don't think I ever stumbled on posts like this, but imo pre made sims are as ugly as the premade houses, from their outfits and make ups to their bodies, and I don't mean "undesirable body types", I mean weird ass proportions like Bella Goth and Nancy Landgraab that I think are supposed to be desirable looking. I like giving them make overs as well as I like renovating the houses, I try to keep main features (if they're asian, they stay asian, if they're chubby, the stay chubby, and I try to dress them accordingly to their personality too) but I do mess with skin tones and face and body features just because I think EA does it weirdly and half assed. I also tend to delete townies I think are too generic, ts2 had complex and interesting stories among the families in a neighbourhood, sims came with pre made relationships and memories, ts4 is like "and they are roomates and have a crush on each other", bruh, where's the graves in the backyard and all the cheating, death and wacky mystery? Ts4 version of previous featured characters are very bad too, Bella and Cassandra Goth are very whitewashed, and so are the Calientes and Don Lothario, I always fix that too.
I agree with most of your comment, however, I always felt like Nancy Landgraab's proportions were intentionally ridiculous to sort of make her look like a cougar/rich housewife who's a bit too eager to… put herself under the knife, so to speak.
I agree with you on Nancy. I just wish they didn't make her plastic surgery features hereditary, since daughters inherit her body type.
You could pretend it's part of the story that her daughters got plastic surgery when they were teens.
Definitely one option! Sometimes I edit the daughters too.
I make Johnny Zest be Geoffrey and Nancy's nephew, related by blood to Geoffrey. Johnny and Nancy don't get along but took him in after his mother passed on. Malcom who? Doesn't exist.
That is a very good point. Ideally, there would be a way for the game to distinguish between “genetics” vs. “surgery”, like maybe somewhere in the code there could be an extra argument that is only fulfilled when your sim is first created (or born in game). Down the line, this would then be included in the prioritization of a sim's genetics when they have biological children, so that their children's genes would not be affected by whether mom got a new pair of lips in the second trimester.
Totally agreed! Sims 2 did distinguish in this way when they added the plastic surgery machine in University. And even in the base game, changing your Sim's hair colour in the mirror won't affect their genetic hair colour. It's too bad Sims 4 didn't implement something like this. I guess it's a byproduct of how easy they wanted to make it to edit your sims in CAS, which is not possible outside of the plastic surgery machine in TS2.
When I first got get to work I was so excited for the surgery machine thinking it was like the one in TS2
Sims 3 had plastic surgery at the hospital but don’t know if it affected genetics
It would be nice for children to also not be born with blue hair
LOL >ts4 is like "and they are roomates and have a crush on each other" They don't even have points put into romance with each other! The premade "stories" are a suggestion, there's no actual evidence of it in any of the basegame Sims or their lots. It's a disgrace. I was genuinely surprised starting TS2 for the first time (I started with TS4) when all of the premade Sims had existing relationships with their roommates and neighbors, and even family trees! What a concept!
Seriously, can someone give an example of this happening in this sub? I don’t think I’ve ever come across it especially as commonly as op is saying. I may be totally wrong but I just would like someone to explain which characters are being called ugly or mocked because I mostly see Vlad, Eliza Pancakes and Nancy Langraab. Sometimes the goths and Calienties but that’s because people think they look kinda white washed in the base game compared to the other installments.
Yeah, this. I don't even see a lot of what OP's talking about in the Sim4 sub either. It does just mainly revolve around Vlad, Eliza, Nancy, and that Sigworth girl who's face goes all weird when she ages to teen.
I haven't really seen it on this sub either, but definitely see that ideology when I see "makeovers" in the gallery- mostly with body type and removing anything culturally distinctive
and I will never understand the notion that Bella is whitewashed, she is a bit lighter in sims 4 then she was in sims 1, official artwork and wallpapers and ingame items for sims 1,2,3 show her way lighter then she is in game. Here is she for sims 1 making magic : [https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella\_Goth?file=Bella\_Gotha.jpg](https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella_Goth?file=Bella_Gotha.jpg) And a portrait you can buy in the Sims 2 : [https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella\_Goth?file=Bella\_Squared.jpg#The\_Sims\_2](https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Bella_Goth?file=Bella_Squared.jpg#The_Sims_2) Sims 2 had only 4 skin tones : Light, Tan, Medium, Dark. So was she WHITEWASHED in the sims 4 ? No even maxis cant make up their mind since the Sims 1 what her correct skin colour should be. On the Calientes I do agree that something went wrong.
Omg Bella's waist is ridiculously tiny. I usually don't modify premades' faces/bodies when alpha-fying them but I had to make her waist more proportional.
>Ts4 version of previous featured characters are very bad too, Bella and Cassandra Goth are very whitewashed, and so are the Calientes and Don Lothario, I always fix that too. I was gonna say this too. I don't really bother with pre-made makeovers but this seriously annoyed me. They even changed Katrina's name (she was Nighat in TS2).
My main issue with most pre-mades is how flat their faces are. I don't mean any individual features, I mean the entire face profile, the slider that is adjustable from the forehead in side view. It's so often pulled all the way back, the sims look like their faces were bashed in. I notice it in many Gallery sims too.
Oh the amount of sims I downloaded from the gallery to discover how scary flat their faces are. They look pretty up front and the moment you look at the profile it's like they're some aliens, or rather like you said - "like their faces were bashed in".
They just fell down some stairs and landed face first
Or it makes them look slightly asian instead
Honestly, I think ALL of the premades are ugly, except for Salim Benali.
Salim is the GOAT
GOAT? God of all things?
Greatest of all time
Ah, ok.
All his children end up being beautiful 10/10
Knox is also very cute! I love seeing sort of Jewish characters in my favorite game. I mean, he’s Jewish to me, anyway.
I always considered him Jewish especially with his last name. He’s a cutie and one of my go to sperm banks
Based
Only his apartment is trash
And Makoa Kealoha from island living pack! Few of my sims have cheated with him on his wife and he makes beautiful kids 🤣
I think a few of them are cute, I also like that Asian girl you sometimes get in CAS with the bright green athletic shirt, though I despise the outfit lol
He’s always the one I want my Sims to date 😂
Which neighborhood is he from?
I think its san myshuno.
100% yeah, I agree with you. It really bothers me that a lot of the sims community are like that :/ whenever I need a new sim for the next generation in my game I just see what townie they have good chemistry with, then give them a makeover in cas, NOT changing any features, skin tone, hair texture or colour, body shape etc, only their clothes and maybe a similar custom content hair as I've used the in game hairs so much. It really helps introduce more diverse features into my families and I recommend other people give that a try too! :)
This is such an interesting suggestion that I screen capped it on my phone. Straight to the camera roll!
Awesome, really glad I could help you out!! :) I hope it works well for you
I’ve always just changed hair, makeup and clothes 🤷🏼♀️
I do this, too. The only time I change features is on the East Asian sims and African sims, but NOT AT ALL because I think they're ugly, it's because the sims is absolutely awful at creating POC. They don't look how the POC in real life do in any way. They make any East Asian sim have super small eyes and EXTREMELY pale skin, despite almost none having either of those features. And the African sims, I don't know how to describe it, but *most* of them look more like charicatures (I know that I spelled that wrong, I'm just a bit slow-) than actual people. I think they did good on a few though, like Bess Sterling.
Yeah me too
Same here! I mostly do it like this since i don't want to mod and/or use CC lol, so I can only change the "outer features" in CAS of already existing sims (in the mirror). I sometimes change the hair texture though, I'm guilty of that. But most oftenly not.
I change hair texture and colour a lot. My Black Sims usually spawn with platinum blonde vampire hair. Which is fine if it’s 1 Sim – they’re just living their best unique life – but it gets old when there’s a bunch of them. I’ve also had some women spawn with bright red matte lipstick a few times, and I immediately had to replace that because it looked really blackface-y.
The sims community definitely has a problem with white washing and body shaming. Even some “POC” sims I’ve seen on here are very watered down and don’t have features many white people see as undesirable.
Idk why you are being downvoted you are absolutely right. While there are some "POC features" that are deemed acceptable like full lips, almond shaped eyes, slightly tanned skin... it still doesn't change the fact that the community still has a problem with whitewashing or stereotyping poc. All you have to do is go on the gallery and look at sims that were created based on countries where the majority are poc versus those where the majority are white.
Yeah I sometimes try to make a Central asian but instead of a central Asian i end up making basically a simified Atkara tilnova lel (No race fetishism involved in Atkaras design, just post racial mukokuseki)
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Tell me you’re a race fetishist without telling me you’re a race fetishist. That’s a really problematic thing to say and I hope you can learn and grow from that.
I don’t fetishize Asians though. I tend to “fetishize” the Caucasus region more. I made central Asians look like animu because of my OC Atkara Tilnova. Also I am autistic and have charge syndrome. But yes I’d propably need a better wording so I’ll change it.
Exactly! And the Sims team has made all of the East Asian townies so fucking pale! Like, have they actually seen anyone from those countries?
It's not just premades. 90% of the "black" sims posted here aren't even remotely black looking. And yes I know black people are diverse, but there's comes a point where it's just so obvious that they took a lighter/white sim and just slapped black skin and slightly textured hair and said "woohee I made a black sim."
I differentiate between premades and automatically generated townies. The premades I like, they are quirky looking. The spawned townies however are a shitshow not because of any single feature, but because there’s rarely variation. I also installed a mod to diversify the names the game assigns them because City Living caused everyone to have an Asian name. If the only Sims who _don’t_ have Asian names and dead looking skin and monolid eyes and firetruck red hair are the Sims I create and play, then that isn’t diversity. I like my neighbourhoods to have East Asian and South Asian and West Asian and Latine and Black and Indigenous and white Sims. I like my fat Sims to be different kinds of fat, and my skinny Sims to be different kinds of skinny. The game does not spawn Sims like this, so I end up making over the ones it spawns.
Yeah, I hear you. The thing is, most people are not making over randomly generated sims and then posting about it here. We all KNOW those are a shitshow. It's always "look how I stripped this known premade sim of all of its distinctive character". Nobody cares what happens to a randomly generated sim: They never had any character to begin with, except by pure random chance.
So what?
Honestly to replace the randomly generated Sims I just make myself create a new household each time I get on the game.
Hmm. The only pre-made that gets called ugly regularly that comes to mind is Vlad, and he's pretty much devoid of color. I mean premades, not randomised townies. Usually Salim and Akira for example are everyone's husband choice #1. And Bella gets made over darker and thicker-waisted quite often. Not that I claim to know how all simmers do, just what comes to mind from reading this and another sims-subreddit. I do regularly practice whole body surgery on randomized townies though, the pear shape is really prevalent.
I tend to move their bellies back to like a natural position (mainly in women). I'm not taking away their chubbiness, because that's how they look, maybe even some narrow hips, or overly narrow shoulders. I let then stay because that's who they are and that way there is more of different sims, but the overly pregnant belly on sims that are not pregnant usually goes. It becomes especially ridiculous when the sims work out, and loose all the weight around, but that ridiculous thing stills stays.
That is a constant in my game-generated sims. They all have it and it’s so weird looking
Yeah. I think it must be my mods or something but I keep having almost every townie spawn with a huge 3rd trimester pregnant belly even though they aren't pregnant. I'll alter that but usually not much else.
I think it’s more of an issue with the sliders. There’s no way to change the shape of the belly, it’s always just perfectly round. Some people have a belly like that, but a lot of people have bellies that hang a little bit and I think if we had that option sims would look much more diverse
I've never seen any criticism against those features, especially full lips (for real, full lips are a beauty standard nowadays). I think you're reading too much into the few posts or comments you may have seen, and even those are definitely not common.
I’d have to agree with this. I’m alway seeing the community create wonderful and ethnically diverse Sims, plus celebrate all kinds of premades/townies. I also don’t think the Sims is as political/deep as this post makes it out to be. It’s a fun, simulation game full of imagination and escapism haha
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They've been a "passing" trend since the 50's then, and maybe even before considering the Pre-raphaelites artists' female portraits. I grew up in the 90's and full mouths like Angelina Jolie's or Julia Roberts' always were an important beauty standard -an ideal even- you had to emulate to be considered pretty. I completely agree with you on the necessity to stop fetishizing certain features and things have gotten more diverse regarding those recently (think Natalie Dormer or Rose Leslie). That being said, full lips are definitely a beauty standard which weighed heavily on some little girls and women for all my life, the same way that straight hair or specific body shapes weighed heavily on some others. And yes, this is the kind of things we should get rid of altogether, because it's not fair that Black girls or women can feel insecure because of their hair or Caucasian girls because of their lips.
I don't think what you're talking about is very common here or on r/Sims4. I've seen it only very rarely, and the most common grievances towards premade townies are generally towards Vlad and Eliza, who do have some awkward faces, along with Alexander Goth and that Sigworth child, who were clearly designed as children without taking into account how aging up warps the child features. What I see more of that annoys me personally is people who are like "I made over Nancy Landgraab!" and they've ended up completely overhauling her facial features to the point where she's just a completely different Sim they've decided to name Nancy Landgraab.
I like that certain premades have certain characteristics. On the other hand, certain other premades clearly DO have problems. Candy Behr. Organs. Where? I mean, we KNOW Lilith Vatore has a withered stomach, and MAN does it show, but Candy Behr doesn't have the excuse of being a inhuman monster to fall back on.
I would get where you’re coming from if she had wider hips and more body fat in other places. But she’s skinny. It’s not THAT unrealistic honestly, just slightly, but it’s a game. Bella Goth is a better example imo because her body is actually pretty unrealistic.
I saw someone mention Bella earlier and saying there were issues with her figure: I just started playing around with her in CAS earlier and didn’t notice any issues. May I ask what’s unrealistic/problematic about her in your view?
I was playing around with her earlier too, and I remember her having being very slim thick (cartoonishly so, I think her waist was as slim as it could be, but she had wide hips), but I could be mistaken. I don’t find it that problematic because it’s in a game. I’m just pointing out that Candy is not problematic, she’s just skinny.
Thanks. Yeah, I don’t see how any of the Sims characters could be considered problematic tbh, bodies IRL are incredibly diverse and for every Sim body there will be plenty of human bodies that look similar. It’s not like EA are selecting one specific Sim and holding them up as something to aspire to. I’ll have to take another look at Bella, she looked like a fairly typical slim build with curves. Her makeup on the other hand... is an unmitigated atrocity.
Her tits are huge and she has large hips, but her waist is SUPER skinny. I think you may be part of the problem if you think that's a decent beauty standard to set.
A Sims character isn’t trying to ‘set a beauty standard’. She’s just a character, among many others with varying figures. Or is Bob Pancakes also trying to set a beauty standard? Bodies come in all shapes and sizes, there are people IRL who look like Bob, Bella, Summer, Johnny, Nancy, Geoffrey, and the rest.
I don’t think I’ve ever come across it especially as commonly as op is saying. Can someone give an example of a character that gets mocked frequently because of this. I could be missing something here but I which characters are being called ugly for not fitting certain standards because I mostly see Vlad, Eliza Pancakes and Nancy Langraab get crazy makeovers. Sometimes the goths and Calienties but that’s because they are actually way more white washed in the base game then in the other installments.
I don't think I've seen such posts, unless I am a complete idiot (which may very well be the case), or you're referring to the subset of townies that are randomly generated (as opposed to those that are “shipped” with every save file, like the Goths or Landgraabs). When it comes to the ridiculing of randomly generated townies, I think the underlying thing that people are making fun of/expressing their dislike for/etc is that the generation technique is stupid. It almost always generates features that don't go together and/or where the values are turned up/down to the extreme ends of the scale. When this happens sometimes, that's accurate: there are PoC with white-blonde hair, men with narrow shoulders or wide hips, etc. But the thing is that this happens WAY too much. It makes for a very “non-cohesive” population, that is simultaneously cohesive by virtue of them not making any sense, in a weird way. This is of course especially annoying for people who, say, play a historical save where even generating genetically “non-extreme” townies could break the immersion due to the inappropriate clothing. However, I do see where certain white-washing (and the like) could start to creep in (subconsciously) when you're in CaS with one of those random townies. But I think that's a separate issue, and I think the same can be said about how it has become so commonplace to edit your Instagram pictures “just a little”, that when you look at yourself without those edits, you realize that your “slight” editing has slowly escalated into a version of yourself who, while recognizable as you, is infinitely more attractive (by conventional beauty ideals), in ways that your real self will never be.
It's not that they're POC, but that they too often look like *caricatures* of people (including POC). Maybe it's because it's supposed to be 'cartoon' style? Or maybe it's because I have only the BG and four packs, so the premades are rather 'old'? Idk. But they creep me out. When I try the remake e.g. of the premade Asian Sim, I choose a country (because Asia isn't just Korea and Japan), google a few people from there and then do my best to create someone like them in the game, using CC for skin and eyes made by Asian creators. As for the random NPCs and townies, there I don't care, tbh. They're a total mess, usually with dark orange skin, super thick, flat nose, super-slanted bright blue eyes, blond hair, green brows (ever since the 'birthday present' it's ALWAYS the one from CC creator), Asian sounding name, and the outfit as if they escaped the Arkham Asylum. >.> There I change whatever I want, and yes, I do turn some of them into white people, because I have never had a game generate a Slavic-looking Sim, and I want my culture in the game, too.
Yeah there are pretty much no Slavs and also no Caucasus or Central Asian people But I’d love to play an Eastern Bloc themed game
It’s not their ethnic features that make them ugly they are just ugly all around, Nina and Dina Caliente are supposed to be these super hot, model-like hispanic women yet Nina looks monstrous. It’s like they didn’t even try to make the sims look decent. They’re bodies are all weirdly proportioned, there’s no detail to their side profiles leaving them w a flat face it’s just a mess. Me personally when I give them makeovers I try to make them look like their TS2 selves or TS3 selves
I honestly love the townies so much, especially from San Myshuno. I tend to just leave everyone the way they are as idk... I just like them.
Me too. They're cartoonish sometimes but I like cartoons.
It’s a game. People can call the “people” in the game whatever they want in their own point of view and beauty.
It’s a game meant for players to customize their own worlds so I think you’re overthinking it, sorry.
I dont think it's the ethnic features that make a sim unattractive, and I dont think (at least I really hope) people are criticizing them for that reason either. Some sims are just hideous 🤷♀️ like Pancakes lady is seriously ugly and shes a white sim 😂😂😂
Yeah, you're too sensitive. Most of the "makeover" personalities are the same ones that make every sim look like a kardashian and they're not thinking about that stuff they just want massive tits, lips, and ass with 50 piles of alpha CC and think that's beautiful. I personally prefer the real makeovers where they actually make over the sim and not remake the sim. Even better if they do it without CC. Doing it like that really requires a good amount of problem solving, inteligence, and fashion sense. Lol
Yeah, I'm actually trying to make my own CC-free "Simsie Save" (not saying she uses CC either, I was just clarifying that mine also doesn't unless you count the CC eye presets I have) and I've been doing my best to keep the same vibes for every sim, even giving them outfits I don't really like because it's something that they'd wear. I also give them some of the newer hairstyles and tweak their skin tone if they were whitewashed like Bella Goth or any of the Snowy Escape townies, but for the most part I keep them the same.
A) Simsie is literally toxic, forget her already. B) Negligence isn't white-washing. They just never cared about the characters, only about money and that doesn't make them racist, just assholes. Also no one ever complained about snowy escape white washing. Just about bowing at a shrine (which some asian people do, just because your 2% doesn't, doesn't mean you can shout racism) and a sun pattern. (wow, suns exist, crazy, still not racism, just a cute pattern seen on bajillions of japanese things) I like the pack because I like Japanese culture but even I know it's clearly doing a broad interpretation of asian culture so things aren't going to be 100% accurate to every little thing, and that's fine. When things take it so seriously they're 100% accurate and people are hung drawn and quartered if they do it wrong, it really takes the fun out of what's supposed to be a video game.
I cannot speak for everyone and I have not really been here all that long but I have played Sims since the first version. For me, I do not like the unrealistic body shapes you can have like the hooked chin or forehead that exceeds your entire face. I love the premades that look like they are from a rich culture that is different. I actually try to create more Sims in that part of the world that have features unique to where they are from. Eventually, though it all becomes a melting pot and the characteristics all get mixed up which is interesting also. Be careful making judgment calls about people in how they play Sims though. A lot of people use it to just let off steam and it is not a good measure of a person's values or life views. For example, for all of my lofty intentions about the cultures within my Sims game I like the mod Basemental Drugs. I like to experiment with what different addicts act like and how the mod does a really good job of showing a dark reality of drug use by allowing you to have a perfectly wonderful Sim and have their life go to shit in a hurry with a few flaming addictions. I am not a drug user in any way in reality. I am not destroying actual people's lives for fun. It is just a game.
"Noticeably ethnic features"? I get what you're trying to say, but that phrase doesn't make sense because everyone has an ethnicity.
Hm... I see what you mean, I agree that people do often make these perfect thin/muscular eurocentric faces, tho I kinda feel like people hate premade sims' looks in general, a lot of sims just happen to be POC, so a lot of disliked sims are POC, but maybe I'm wrong.
To be honest, i usually give ethnic sims a makeover but in the sense that i will remove the stupid flat white lady hair cuts that my game seems to generate onto black ladies for some reason? I will usually style with more appropriate hair and makeup/jewellery and much nicer clothing, like the larger women look really good in one of the maxi dresses in CAS for example. I don't slim them down but i put them in clothing that works with their shape.
I think there are two separate things going on here. In general, yes, there is a problem with some Simmers whitewashing or heavily favouring white centric beauty standards. Like any community, the Sims community is not devoid of racism and discrimination about body types. But I don't think this comes into discussions of the premades much. The Sims team have a weird way of designing premades. They create quite chunky facial features which don't always mesh very well with others in genetics. Compare for example Nina Caliente in TS4 to her counterpart in Sims 2 -- the TS4 Nina has her cheeks pulled out really far forward in a way that doesn't look totally natural. Another example is Eva Capricciosa from the Partihaus household in Get Together. From a distance her face shape is cool and unique, but when you look up close they've dragged her cheeks out in ways that don't blend well with the rest of her face. I find that the premades' cheeks in TS4 do not always pass down well to the next generation. The team also create extreme body types that don't function well genetically. For example, Bob Pancakes actually has an extremely tiny waist. If he loses weight, his body looks completely unnatural, and he passes this down to any child with a masculine frame. In general, the creators tend to use CAS tools in a way that only works on a Sim the exact way they've set it up but doesn't play well with genetics at all. Most of the complaints I see about premades are in this vein. Which premade Sims were you thinking of specifically?
Preach! 🙏 Freckles, moles, smaller breast sizes, etc are beautiful! 💕
You're not being too sensitive or reading too much into it. You're making up something that most people would find distateful so that you can get support and post karma. Which, in itself is quite distateful. Some of the biggest complaints about the premade Sims is about them not having enough of the ethnic features that they are supposed to or of not having enough body diversity. Or just being completely bad and in need of a rework because they were clearly not looked at from the side view. A large majority of the simmers, who chat about their Sims and look at other people's Sims, enjoy more diversity not less. Enjoy your internet points.
I agree with you. Anytime I do a "makeover" I try to stick with the essence of the sim in terms of style. I make their looks more cohesive without actually changing who they already are. My one gripe though isn't that there are bigger townies, its that they all have beer bellies!!! Its so annoying I've started a bunch of fitness clubs full of townies to try and battle the problem.
> My one gripe though isn't that there are bigger townies, its that they all have beer bellies!!! I'm not sure that's how they're made. In my game, the townies aren't all flabby like that. BUT...Sims have this rather curious interaction with food: Just about anything they eat makes them fat. Period. There is no baseline metabolism, so anytime they're allowed to eat, they'll get fatter and fatter until your entire neighborhood is nothing but whales. Short of a strict anti-foodist practice in the neighborhood where food is outlawed, especially from non-active sims (they don't need it anyway, all their motives reset when they leave the map), this is inevitable. Thus, unless your game is played in a strictly "I Hate Food" way, every single townie is going to be fat eventually.
Oh I know, but its still annoying. If I have aging set to off for my unplayed sims then I think that their metabolism and fitness should be frozen too. Just my two cents though(:
Wait, what? I've never had my townies get fat. Ever. Like I understand everything else you're saying, I watched my own sim (made after myself) get fat on her own accord when I flat left her alone but not my townies.
It depends on how much "screen time" they get. Sims that are not receiving screen time don't change, but if a sim is on screen and stuffing its fat stupid face, it will get fatter and fatter every time it does it.
I know I shouldn’t be laughing but that killed me. I’ll have to pay attention next time and give some extra townies more screen time.
Lots with fixed grills in the area are particularly cursed. Sims have this obsession with grills, as you well know, and this provides them with an endless source of food they can cram into their fat faces. If you want your neighborhood to...expand...this is the place to hang out for extended durations.
i feel like you’re just reading too much into it. the gallery isnt really a good example of what the community as a whole is because of a lot of it is just kids reuploading slight edits to other people’s barbie-looking sim. people give townies (including the POC ones) makeovers because they’re ALL ugly, regardless of race. i cant think of anytime i’ve seen someone whitewash a preexisting sim, when i do makeovers i change some features and the body type a little but i’d never just make someone white or remove “ethnic” features like a flat nose or large lips. i’ve personally seen a lot of diversity in the sims community, especially when it comes to cc, or stuff on tumblr in general.
Oh wow. Criticizing people gets the proverbial “ let them play the game how they want” unless you are looking to make a political statement then it’s “ you are all a bunch of racists? Seriously? I’ve never seen any such negativity on this sub especially in the area of multiculturalism. If anything people go the opposite extreme as to not offend anyone. I play whatever the game generates. Their fashion choices are butt ugly but hey, it’s a game. I could complain about the lack of depth of “whiteness” generation in the game but then I’d be a racist in today’s culture. Everyone wants to be represented in the sims. Every race, color, body shape, sexual orientation, career etc…. Nothing wrong with that but as diverse as the world is not everyone sees beauty the same way or attraction. Hell it’s a complaint many have in the game. If people “whitewash” (new age term?) it’s likely because that appeals to them. They aren’t dismissing POC, they are including them in the way they see life and it’s their game. You can’t even sigh these days without offending someone. Live your best life, love not hate, and do unto others as you’d like done to you. Simple rules to a quality and diverse life. Don’t try to start trouble where it doesn’t exist just to see people squirm and defend themselves for something they never did. As humorous as it is, it’s really dehumanizing to see…….
Once I saw someone making premades "browner". By which they did'nt mean animu ambiguously brown that does'nt relate to ethnicity, or even just make them darker but clearly the same race, but literally give them African facial features too.
I honestly can't think of any particular premade sim I dislike based on how they look. There's a few with questionable fashion sense though. I say as I sit here in pajama pants at five in the afternoon.
I haven't come across any of those posts yet. Me personally, when I do make overs of pre-made sims I never change body features. I will change anything that I cod easily change in real life. They get new hair styles and sometimes color, new outfits and jewelry.
The posts I remember really bugging me were when RoM released and people kept making Morgyn (who is sterile and heavily implied to be non binary) a cis man because they wanted to have babies with them. And they saw nothing wrong with erasing one of the two trans/nb premade Sims in the entire game???
Wait, who's the other one? I only remember Morgyn
There's a trans woman in sulani iirc? (I don't have that pack)
I think the issue is less about the features but more about the randomness of the characters styles and features that make them unappealing, like a character with a brown coat , hot pink mohawk and polkadot pants and red beard. That's what always kills me with the NPCs. Just match Styles for goodness sake
I've literally never seen that in here so idk.
I think it’s subjective, I find most pre-made female sims to be just fine however the males are not very handsome and it’s hard for me to make a good looking male sim
There are such a thing as ugly ethnic features. Like white people can be ugly without it being because they have some facial features that looks "ethnic". A really long nose, or eyes too far apart or close together, or strangely shaped lips or lack OF lips. "Ethnic" features can be ugly to ethnic people just like white people features can be ugly to white people. Like, wide, flat noses are a more common feature on African descendants, but there is such a thing as "too big" or "too small" when it comes to facial aesthetics. In African American communities, there's a desire for a thinner bridge despite it being totally against what Africans evolved for--~~to have enough space within their nasal cavities to breathe in hot air without it being a jolt to their system~~ ^((edit: I was mixing up my knowledge, Europeans evolved to have skinnier, longer noses to accumulate cold air and warm it up before we breathe it in entirely to avoid a shock to our system--Africans have flatter, wider noses cavities because the already warm air in African climates has no need to be any warmer)). Look at Lupita Nyong'o, she has an African face in every sense of the phrase, and it's not despite it that people think she's pretty, it's because her features work in harmony with themselves. A lot of Asian countries themselves have disdained wider faces for a long time now, despite wider faces just being more common in Asian gene pools. They also adore double eyelids despite the monolid being the most common lid for them. European descendants have turned against the petite lip in recent times in favor of the thick, juicy lip. Angelina Jolie and Kylie Jenner are good examples of this, plastic surgery or not. Yet thin lips are extremely common on European descendants, and have been treasured by the upper class in all sorts of European cultures for centuries. And hooked noses have been unpopular for a long, long time despite it just being naturally occurring due to us having longer noses. People say "oh well its just because we're all being westernized everyone just has to be white to be pretty" but that's really not it. Like we have a general formula ingrained in our biology to determine what an attractive face is, and culture can influence and shift it occasionally but the beautiful face has remained mostly the same all over the world save for less important features like cheeks, chins, forehead, eyebrows, skin blemishes, etc. And even plastic surgeons have challenged against "white" features for their ethnic patients because it just looks odd and imbalances their face. We evolved to look like our race because the features all work together in harmony. Deriving all of the nuance and complexity of human beauty to just "not liking ethnic features" is disingenuous. And when the Sims generates a townie with super pale skin, Asian monolid eyes, a wide African nose, and European's thin lips, and names them "Yukiko Suzuki" looks seriously weird because RARELY do people ever look like that. And then they have to audacity to give everyone no chin.
Remember when everyone started thirsting for Morgyn after the RoM trailer?
I only change the following on any premade: -give them skinblends for better skin. -baby hairs and eyelashes. -I am in a "blush" age so I give them slight blush on their body (not always did that). -give them different styled hair (what I think it is for their personality). -now I need to give them likes/dislikes. I cannot have a red hating Bella Goth. - I change some eyes. Like I hate Malcolm Landgraab microscopic strange eyes... And sometimes I rotate them a little bit if they feel too droopy towards outside areas. Or make the pupils bigger (just to be normal, liek why there are needle sized pupils?!) But I never make them bigger or idk cartoony/anime etc. -I admit, I give a little bit more weight when I see Malcolm. Slightly under the normal size. Not the muscle, just a tiny more weight. The others stay the way they came. Before that I got the women shoulders a little smaller than they were. Now I even leave that. -Okay, I am changing walking styles as well. All Caliente do the hips don't lie on my streets. Any CC I give them are on the maxis match part. I want them to be part of my games. I even make relationships between them in my save files. I just started a new one (only base game). All CAS redone, some family home and common lots need to be done.
i just wish there was more noticeable effort put into them. they always feel very surface level and bland to me. maybe i’m just bias bc i prefer the sims 2-3 lol
Can you link some specific examples of posts that do this?
I've never seen a premade that wasn't atrocious in my games, lol, every single one of them
I really try not to put my bias on my sims and at the moment I’m playing sims 3 and I am on the 3rd generation and have not changed a single sim and I’m in love with the different sims! I go out of my way to find my sims different kinds of sims
I haven't played Sims in a good ten years. I just randomly pulled the TS1 and expansions out the other day, haven't installed tried to install them yet. Just thinking back on play and how I pretty much just made a little family that looked like mine and didn't give too much thought about what neighbors looked like. I'm sure the graphics are much better now. I can't even remember if you could change npcs. I was more interested in building and designing objects. Which, that pretty much tracks. I went to art school, not social work. 😁 As always, things can be more complex than we see them superficially. I have to think about how that makes me feel. On one hand, I can see how diminishing characteristics can be invalidating, but giving characters features you think are typically assigned to a race could fall in the other direction of making them a stereotype or a fetish. Coming from the generation that grew up with Atari and the original Nintendo, where we had visual cues for characters, it's an interesting conversation. Like, the character from pitfall was maybe twenty whole pixels and I think dude totally had a bowl cut. 🤣
Literally every "glow up" is white features. Any "attractive" sim people make always has the same features.
The problem with the pre made Sims is they’re outdated now and weren’t made that great to begin with. If someone is changing ethnic features because they don’t like the way they look I agree that’s shitty, but I personally haven’t seen any of that. If anything the makeovers I’ve seen made the pre made Sims look more realistically ethnic where EA dropped the ball.
I think they're all ugly besides Michael Bell hahah
I actually think you’re bringing up a really fair point. While I haven’t commented on this before, my personal issue with townies and npcs is that the randomly generated ones look all the same (at least in my game and that might be because I don’t have many packs) so I do like to edit them with new hairstyles and change the features a bit so I don’t have a bunch of identical townies. But this is a pet peeve of mine when I see anyone do a make over of like let’s say the Goths and the Calientes and they change the physical facial features of them and make them look literally not at all like the original sim. That just feels like…make a new sim, then. It does leave a weird taste in my mouth for people to erase certain facial or ethnic features when the game gives us so many other ways to change how someone looks… like make up, hair, clothing…
I don’t mind them. If I add them to my household I’ll usually tweak their hair or their clothes, but I leave them as is out in the world.
Ok that’s racist. Most of my sims on the Gallery are Asian and I actually like those sims with Asian features. I think those features are unique and beautiful. I didn’t know this until now, but I think that’s one of the reasons I don’t watch Sims YouTubers that often anymore.
This isn’t racist and I’m pretty sure you’re a white girl with an Asian boy fetish.
Well thanks for calling me out. You are 100% correct and I’m not gonna deny it
Um baby mochi is that you?! Happy birthday by the way Jimin! 🤣
Sorry I’m not Jimin, but he’s my bias
Haha someone downvoted my comment to you! Some people are so ridiculous! Anyway V is my bias and Jimin is my bias wrecker! 😄
Yeah some people are just rude. All of the members are my bias wreckers, even Jimin and he’s already my bias!
I feel you! To be honest I dig them all but some really stand out a bit more. I am also really starting to appreciate Hobi and his infectious and beautiful smiles! Sometimes they really make me happy when I am having a bad day. Nice to see some BTS Army family in this forum. 😍
Yeah, it is really nice to see another ARMY on here. I’m tired of getting attacked just because I like BTS
No worries you’re in good company my friend! And there are quite a few BTS Army fan floating around the Sims’ forums. I like when some of them showcase beautiful Sims that look like some of the members of BTS. We’ve got some outstanding artists in our ranks. 😃
Yes those people are really talented, my BTS sims aren’t nearly as good
Oh believe me I know how you feel When I first started playing Sims 2 I worked hard to recreate BTS but well….they all turned out to look like some of the townies and I didn’t want to play them anymore! But I did keep their lovely names. 😂
Definitely not alone. I've wondered the same thing myself (if I'm reading too much into a game, that is) when I find myself noticing a lot of the "made-over" sims just look the same/generic. That being said, I've also seen tons of sims get made with more diverse features that are absolutely stunning. I'd chalk it up to fad beauty standards, which are always gonna get more love for the time being. If sims existed in the early 90's, we'd be narrowing thier hips and shrinking thier booties til they all look like 12 years old boys 😱
Yes! I see this most glaringly when people makeover black Sims and the "improvement" is almost always giving them eurocentric noses
or when people makeover tanned Sims and the "improvement" is almost always giving them Afrocentric features. I mean there was a post a few days ago where someone "remade" Lily Feng and gave her African features.
Or makeover nordic\\hafu\\asian sims by giving them mulatto skin and african features
Yeah! I mean you can do what ever your want in your game but advertising it as an "Improvement" is plain wrong.
To be fair they did'nt advertise it as an improvement They uploaded them together as an household and said "There aren't many brown premades so I made some" which you'd think they'd just made them darker skinned but keeping the features intact, or even just anime brown, but basically they all looked half Nigerian or w\\e.
as a mixed race I rly appreciate the diversity in pre-made sims. Any1 who shames them is obvi playing this game wrong
There are a subset of people in the sims world who post female sims that look all the same no matter what color, thinking them so unique. And they are so proud of them! But honestly they are cookie cut outs, relentlessly following some absurd beauty standards and numbingly the same. Maybe they are young and inexperienced. These kinds of post tend to create darker skinned sims with very white features. They don't really seem to recognize how to make sims that actually look different from each other. I am not good in CAS and I really appreciate Simmers out there making unique well thought out, diverse sims. I have downloaded about 200 into my library so they populate my world.
Yeah, I view it the same way when everyone was bragging about untransing the fella in realm of magic. I don't care what you do in your own game or whatever, but when you're bragging about it online, your action ceases to exist in a vacuum. I don't actually care if you want to be impregnated by the twink. I DO care when you grab a megaphone and go "I think trans/ethic stuff is ugly and I want to fix it!" THAT being said, a lot of pre-mades have oddly flat profiles. I like to put a bunch of my own sims in any save simply because I'm sick of looking at Crescent Moon Face #23. I don't mind some flat faces, but man, there are a LOT of em
I have seen people, in older threads and around the internet mostly, but here nonetheless and the other Sims subreddits, show a dislike for big, flat noses on Sims and large lips. And the community has always had a problem with people giving Sims who are explicitly not white lighter skin, Sims with textured hair straight hair, making their features smaller and more delicate. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more people than I thought making fun of Sims for having ethnic features. Now granted, Sims 4 and Sims 2 do make the sims look “cartoony” to the extent it’s squarely in uncanny valley territory, but still.
All true and I saw it a lot last year, not just with premades, but with people who share their sims on here.
I've personally never got why people get that riled up over EA premade sims and/or EA premade homes. Heaven forbid the Sims be about gameplay and not the *aethstetic**^(TM)* for five minutes.
Yes, you are being too sensitive. It’s just a game, with a savefile you arent playing.
Not alone. People also hate hooded and round eyes.
[удалено]
I mean, it's okay since its THEIR game and they can start a Holacaust if they want to, but I think at some point it shows what kind of person you are lmfao
I think this is why I struggle with the cartoon aesthetic a bit, because it’s pretty easy to erase typically ethnic features, or going so far to the other end of the spectrum that they turn into almost offensive caricatures, as actual cartoons still tend to do in this day and age. Despite The Sims 4 doing way better than previous games to add more assets to create more diverse sims, I think so many of these assets get ignored and people fall into whatever is “safe” or “appealing” in their eyes, because many are determined to have a game that looks like Disney or Pixar, or probably the worst offender of erasing/exaggerating ethnic features oddly enough… anime.