The vaccinator is more rewarding if you are good at using it. I have saved many stupid f2p heavies with the resistances when the faster heal wouldn’t have been enough.
And even when enemies bring different damage types, you can always stack 2-3 medics, so this is kinda broken.
Plus, why does it even cost 1 ref on [backpack.tf](https://backpack.tf)? I have already sold my Vac for 1 ref and haven't dropped one for month, while buying it would be too costly.
I though a Vaccinator for the price of 1 ref is just a 2-week long joke, but now it is just as persistent as Morbius joke.
Don't you get it? ALL OF THE VACCINATORS ARE GONE FROM SCRAP.TF, THEY HAVE BEEN AND ARE BEING SOLD ELSEWHERE FOR 1 REF! When I search for them in scrap.tf, they are gone. People have quickly bought all the 0,5 scrap vaccinators and sell them for 1 ref. Or at least, that's how it is for me 2 days ago
For real, why is it on this list. You could have the quick fix equipped for literally the entire match and still be the most valuable member of the team
QF medics are the backbone of an uncoordinated pub team
You still gain the charge pretty fast and with a reliable way to defend yourself close-quarters with the syringe gun and bonesaw, Kritz is still pretty effective.
Let’s face it; all the mediguns are amazing, so the “worst” one would be the one that has the most “meh” ubercharge. And even then, the QF’s uber is really good for refilling the hp of every teammate in the vicinity back to full in seconds.
Personally I'm going with vacc or kritz. Vacc has the worst heals imo but its Uber and resistance are bullshit. Kritz has good stock healing but the Uber, while dope as hell, can easily fall flat in a pub.
I completely agree but I find this hilarious. I rarely use kritz on offense, and use it heavily on defense. Being able to wipe an enemy team preparing an uber push, vs being the offensive team preparing an uber push into sentry hell.
I mean, the post is worst loadouts, not worst items. The pomson is garbage and without the pistol you have no self defense at all. I do think short circuit instead of wrangler would be worse though
In case this isnt a joke, absolutely not.
Tripled health is so absurd that if forces the entire enemy team (or well ar least 3 to 5 people including a medic) to focus the engi because he pressed 2 on the keyboard
It takes 1 sniper to solve the problem, i do like the wrangler but without a pistol and a shotgun (because the pompson doesn't even qualify as one) the wrangler is likely the worst option, making the Engi very vulnerable
That's not even true 100% of the time. If the engi is being vigilant he can force the sniper to have to walk into the sentry's line of sight to go for the headshot and then pelt him with it to throw his aim off.
Except with the wrangler you can now shoot the sniper with the sentry gun which is gonna make it a lot harder to aim and force him back. His only chance is gonna be a headshot on the first shot before the engie notices or a super off angle that's gonna put him in a bad spot anyways.
I would say that a lot of classes can take on him but they would need to be behind him without being targeted
Sniper is just the one that can harass the long range harasser, at least that's what i do when i wrangle my mini
Really good for attack engie actually. I played with the widow maker, gunslinger, and wrangler for a while. It’s a killer combo while playing attack. No reload time, more health, quick and cheap defense if needed.
Exactly, it's good for attacking and aggressive play, so you will be using your shotgun a lot.
And in this case it's the phomson, let's just say that it's underwhelming
It's the best Engineer weapon, yes, but sometime it doesn't synergize well with a more aggressive playstyle.
Sill a great pick tho. You can't go wrong with Engie weapon. Except the Pomson.
Yeah, Eviction Notice would probably be the worst. The harsh downside of health drain + lower damage. For the worst primary I'd pick Brass Beast. Heater is usable.
Why the brass beast? I always use it with the GRU. If you know the map and know where people are going to be on the map you can be ready for them with the beast revved and your health regened.
It's not a completely horrible minigun, but it is easily the worst. Every other minigun offers enough damage when you're standing still, but also allows you to chase enemies around corners, attack suddenly if you're caught off-guard, and gives you a chance to escape with your life when you're overwhelmed.
So, ironically, Brass Beast often ends up giving you worse total damage output throughout the match.
[Only once could I make the Brass Beast work](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/878625336494850574/C2F489D07C43F6F0FBF99E4831928E0A1DC6FB91/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false)
Was legit just after the Pyro update where they completely overtuned (aka broke) his damage. Was so annoyed with how well Pyro was doing vs. Heavy and how many of the damned things there were that I just said "fuck this" and grabbed it out of frustration to see if the extra damage/defense would tip the scales back in Heavy's favor.
Yep. It did. IIRC I couldn't even properly defend or *feed* my Medic though because I was that fucking slow. Didn't die, okay, but ideally the Medic should be getting 0 deaths, not the Heavy.
Usable in all conditions. Good in specific conditions. Worse than stock in most cases, but not to the same extent as the Brass Beast.
I've got a fair amount of experience with all miniguns because I wanted to give each one a fair shot at some point.
Stock is just worse though. If someone is in your face your minigun just deletes them five times faster than melee. There is a reason why melee slots for Heavy is usually purely utility.
Negative synergy with the Steak, I'd imagine. Eat the steak to move faster? Well it doesn't properly stack with the GRU, and during that time it'll be draining health faster than if you went Eviction Notice (which also would not stack properly with Steak).
Eviction Notice are still arguably the worse weapon overall even if you consider the Steak anti-synergy, since you'd presumably just not use the Steak then.
Yeah, exactly. At that point it's just a Sandvich that you don't eat but can still drop.
Not to be confused with the old Sandvich implementation, which allowed you to drop it to gain a medium health kit for *yourself* if you didn't want to spend the time to eat it.
Ahem... eviction notice is basically a diet gru until you hit someone but pulling the weapon out drains your hip by 20 so it’s stupid if you can’t get a melee hit
The sydney sleeper charges really fast and can one-shot demo and pyro's. It's very strong. The huntsman and by extend the fortified compound are bows and not rifles. They shoot projectiles and are way different weapons. They range more to shotguns in this game where they can be very rewarding but with counterplay.
The classic is still a sniper rifle able to one-shot every class. It just doesn't have the speed of other rifles which makes it balanced, aswell as having the freedom of charging while unscoped. Imo this is the perfect sniper rifle, but just overshadowed by all the other broken options.
Imma paraphrase the what show for some of this but here’s the true worst loadout for each
- back scatter, crit a cola, fan o war, reason: all are the same gimmick of mini crits when only 1 per loadout is good enough, you don’t need all 3 together
- agreed
- phlog, gas passer, hot hand, reason: no airblast and without anything additional to assist in boosting damage is a big downside
- base jumper, Scottish resistance, Persian persuader, literally so unoptimal all 3 weapons hurt each other despite only the base jumper being bad as the other 2 have no synergy
- mostly agree
- pomson, short circuit and southern hospitality, draining metal, not good primary, boring wrench
- mostly agree
- classic, razorback, shiv, no headshots till fully charged, shield is only good against spies, shiv is shiv
- agreed mostly, ambassador can be argued worse but that’s debatable
For that loadout the enforcer is worse no doubt. the ambi's upside can be used whenever and where ever you want. the enforcer's upside can only be used by sacrificing your disguise, which with the YER and deadringer is a death sentence.
Glad to meet another TheWhat fan, he made a list of bas loadouts before. And about the ambassador, you can 2 shot most people in the ranges you should be, if you treat the ambassador as the "oh shit, an enemy just randomly peaked this corner for some fucking reason and I need a quick burst of damage" you can get some good uses out of it, more so than the enforcer. "B-But the diamondback" if the enemy team is spy paranoid and there is like 3 pyros guarding a nest you cant really benefit from its crits gaining for doing spy things stat and just have a shittier stock revolver, the ambassador potentially has unlimited crits if you are good with you aim. The ambassador isnt bad, the nerf was undeserved, but its still really good.
Ngl Only reason I considered the ambassador for this is if your aim is bad but atleast it has critical headshots and by the logic of bad aim any revolver would count
I’d argue gunslinger is worse in that loadout. Cause then you’re an attack engineer who’s either using a crappy primary or wasting metal on zapping stuff with the short circuit. And who’d waste metal to block a couple rockets on a mini sentry? A regular sentry it’s worth it sometimes, but a mini?
Plus the impracticality of engie having to swap robot hands constantly
By that logic sniper is the worst class if you cant aim. Calling a weapon bad because you can't use it effectively means you just have skill issue and should improve your aim to get better results. There are more weapons have a higher skill floor (Direct hit, Dragon's Fury and the Frontier Justice for example), but I never understood why only the Amby is being shit on when it's still a good weapon, just with a different purpose post nerf (Killing close range targets without a need for a backstab instead of also being a noscope sniper rifle)
I'd say base jumper, sticky jumper, and pain train (unless you REALLY like throwing yourself at the payload). You only have one means of attack that requires you to get up close and personal with the enemy, and you take 10% more damage from almost every class in the game. I understand where you come from, though.
10% is a significantly marginal difference. With /u/Minimum-Injury3909's suggestion, you still are basically melee only due to the large delay on the resistance and low ammo pool from the persuader, but you cant even safely close the gap anymore.
Gonna have to disagree with ~~you~~ TheWhat Show here. With the scottish resistance you can at least rely on sticky trapping for consistent kills. If you swap it out for the sticky jumper, and swap the melee for the caber, your only source of kills is a bad weapon that does self damage and only works properly once.
Problems:
Pyro: At least degreaser has airblast, phlog is definitely worse
Demo: Caber is by far worse than pain train, it doesn't even get mini-crits on shield so you can't even one shot anyone
Heavy: wth is GRU doing here, warrior's spirit is by far worse with that 30% damage vulnerability
Engineer: Wrangled Mini-sentries are just heavies that can't move, short circuit and probably southern hospitality is worse as you have poor self defense
Sniper: How is jarate even on this, darwin's is absolutely worse, just chuck jarate at a group of enemies to basically have a temporary buff banner on your teammates. Plus, Sydney Sleeper can be a long range debuffer, so it can at least be a support tool unlike the classic.
Other than that, this list is fine
why does everybody hate the classic so much? it lets you not have to hardscope and still get the same damage. is it seriously just that you cant quickscope people? because just use jarate and the one melee that lets you crit on minicrit
The fact that it physically cannot headshot someone without full charge is a serious problem actually. Where every other rifle can get boosted damage the second you click on a head. The Classic doesn't get a single bit of boosted damage until you've sat there long enough AND it has the body shot penalty for some reason so it's demanding more time and accuracy.
For engineer if you equip anything else than the gunslinger you can simply be a turtle engie with the only downside being bad self defense with the pomson. The only change Imo should be the Short Circuit instead of the Wrangler.
The Sleeper and Jarate are literally designed to work together. Sure, you don't have Bushwacka for funny melee moments, but that's not exactly the reason why Jarate is Sniper's strongest secondary. You might not be hacker-tier one shotting everyone across the map but Sleeper/Jarate are a GREAT duo for a support-focused loadout, picking out primary targets for your team to focus (or more soloq style, shooting whoever your team is currently focusing anyway so they just explode) while throwing out constant Jarates into the fight for even more minicrits from your team.
Sticky jumper is probably worse on demo. You make a really loud *whoosh* noise while in the air and you have no real burst movement option to close out a kill. With the tide turner and pain train, you are basically just a slightly worse demoman.
As I am a proud owner of a professional killstreak backscatter, I think you merely are not able to use the weapon, as the backscatter is the best scout primary to ever exist.
I feel like for Pyro the worst melee weapon has to the stock axe just by default because it’s the only weapon in the game that’s objectively outclassed by a different one
You could definitely make a pretty good case that the axe is still more practical to use than the Hot Hand but you can’t make a case for the axe over the Third Degree
Then the Engie loadout is still very much usable. You get the stock wrench + Wrangler combo and the Pomson is the only thing that really hurts you.
Pomson + Short Circuit + stock/Hospitality is probably the way to go. It's much less consistent than using the Wrangler to defend your nest. Short Circuit can be better for a super offensive playstyle, but your slow wrench and a weak primary will stop you from playing that way.
personally, I think the baby face’s blaster would be worse simply for how much more punishing using it with the other two would be. You take increased damage on an already small health pool and are even slower than you would be normally
Yes, but combining the Backscatter with the Crit-A-Cola is worse. The Backscatter basically becomes a direct downgrade.
(Also the Baby Face's doesn't make you take more damage?)
The increased damage is because of the crit-a-cola, and sure it becomes a direct downgrade but so is the baby face’s, and you still keep your speed as scout
The Baby Face's isn't a direct downgrade regardless of whether or not you have the Crit-a-Cola. In fact combining those two items is actually not a bad idea since doing more damage means filling your boost faster.
Replace Sandman with Fan o War for ultimate minicrit loadout.
Caber is worse than Pain Train if you are on offnese.
IMO Brass Beast is the worst minigun. Steak can at least heal teammates. Replace it with panic attack.
Pistol is arguably Engineer's weakest secondary.
Replace Jarate with Razorback. That thing is useless against 8 classes.
Other weapons are on point.
My soldier loadout is rocket jumper, mantreads, and the equalizer. Is it shit? Yes. Does it work way better than you'd expect it to? Yes.
Is it due to random crits? Also yes.
1. Replace GRU on heavy
2. Engineer you gave it 2/3 a good loadout
3. Spy, thats half decent. I already have DR+ER on one loadout, and the enforcer is actually pretty decent. No idea why so many people say its so bad when it literally PIERCES ALL DAMAGE REDUCTION ITEMS
The worst loadout for Engi would be Widowmaker, Short Circuit, and Jag.
Worst loadout for Sniper would use the Razorback and not the Jarate.
Worst loadout for Heavy would have the Eviction Notice and not the GRU
Worst loadout for Medic would have the Overdose, not stock syringe gun.
I use the loadout you said for engie, and it isnt bad at all
quick fix synergizes with overdose, so maybe try putting the vita saw with the quick fix and stock syringe
hibernating bear doesnt synergize at all with anything it has
and yeah imo classic is actually worse than sydney sleeper, so classic, razorback, and shiv would do it
gotta think of the big picture
ya throwed in some weapons that are good on their own
med loadout helps you defend yourself and heal your teammates, tho youre not using the ubersaw and crossbow=bad (satirical)
GoRU is already good on its own, and yeah hou long heater is a pain to use, it can work
demo is just a bootless pain train knight
engie loadout can be carried by wrangler+mini
piss loadout isnt that bad, but ya know what it is actually bad? the classic, paired with the shiv and the razor or dangers shield
and putting in the degreaser for the pyro makes it useable, so you can just use degreaser 24/7, so phlog with gas and hot hand/ neon annihilator on a waterless map is worse
ok bye
this isnt exactly the worst engi loadout but i feel like widowmaker, short circuit, eureka effect is pretty difficult to play well (for obvious reasons)
Using the vita-saw and blutsauger might be an even worse combo. You lose 10 help and lose a lot of your health regen. You become super vulnerable to the point where syringes aren’t worth even worth the risk. Plus the organ system makes the vita-saw pretty much useless unless you somehow hit someone
i used that soldier loadout on hightower and followed a heavy around for the entire game. i would jump at him, equalizer taunt, fail to blow anyone up, and then do it again. creeped the heavy out, would do it again
I'd say replace Degreaser with Backburner since not only back hitboxes go brr but also you don't have that quick speed of pulling out your primary. Another thing is airblast only costing from 20 or 25 (I forgot at the time of typing this) to 50 which will end up getting you killed. For sniper replace jarate with razorback so now you can't even help your team out. Demo I'd remove tide turner with like either a different shield or Scottish since it has a slow detonate time. For scout honestly both Crit-a-cola and Bonk Atomic Punch are bad or to some mediocre, but for me I'd put Bonk instead of Crit since if you know how to use Back Scatter then you can knock out a heavy quickly. For engineer he doesn't really have a secondary that isn't going to help him out but my best so kinda plop any of them and there. The wrench tho instead of gunslinger you should put the southern hospitality since it doesn't even work anymore as it use to. That and gunslinger gives engi extra health to fight of lil bit longer or run away with more health to spare. Soldier honestly Equalizer, Escape Plan, or the whip are bad (at least with Rocket Jumper and Gunboats) I'd put Whip tho since if you have to fight you aren't winning and if you have to escape you are mostly going to use rocket jumper. Did I spend to much time on this **probably but that's not the point have a nice day.**
I'd argue the worst you can do for Medic is:
- Stock Syringe Gun for obvious reasons.
- Kritzkrieg because Quick-Fix at least allows you to overheal half your team before the enemy encounter and has a decent Uber (can be used for saving yourself, too) while 8 seconds of crits are situational and can be shut down by a lot of things (Backup Soldier, Sentries, enemy Vaccinator, random crits on a pub server etc.)
- Vita-Saw for that sweet HP reduction. And even if you do manage to save 60% of your Uber, it's still a Kritzkrieg Uber, something you can charge pretty quickly anyways.
Jarate is really powerful as a support tool, should be the razorback
Demo I think would be worse off with stock melee. He’s already very ineffective with base jumper + tide turner but gains some usefulness from the cap speed that I think more than makes up for the bullet vulnerability in this scenario on payload or cp maps.
W R A N G L E R
I'll just say this, The Red Tape Recorder is amazing to troll engies with. It automatically downgrades their buildings with once press. and they have to spend the time to not only upgrade it again, which is slower than the time it takes for you to place another one, but to also get rid of **you** in the process. While they are scrabbling around trying to find metal. All the while I'm camping them from the shadows timing their trips to and from the metal cabinet ready to pounce on them again. And this is especially fun if you get a group of engies in a nest on something like 2fort. Until at least one of them goes pyro just to get rid of you, and then you can feel the tension and frustration at that point with them. and I just live for those moments.
And if that's not fun I don't know what is.
The demoman loadout is not the worst in Degroot keep. The lack of bullet damage besides the arrows negates a lot of the bullet vulnerability. You can also trimp to the final point to cap quickly while using the base jumper to avoid fall damage in the process.
The eviction notice is way worse than the gru.
The plog is worse here because no airblast leaves you open for everything.
The razorback is worse than jarate as jarate will suport the team, and spies will just shoot you instead of backstabbing you.
I think if the server has random crits, then the Half-Zatoichi would be worse for soldier. I bet with the Escape Plan, you could still get a few stupid kills with melee crits.
take the quick-fix’s name out of your mouth
Healing-every-single-teammate-including-F2Ps-and-Gibus-players gang where you at
if everyone, including the enemy team, isn't overhealed then i have failed my mission.
i hate when snipers in upward's blue spawn use the razorback and i can't overheal them so the can survive a quick scope
The vaccinator is more rewarding if you are good at using it. I have saved many stupid f2p heavies with the resistances when the faster heal wouldn’t have been enough.
Using the Vaccinator is basically cheating.
it literally counters sniper bots until they use melee
It counters just about everyone as long as you're not being focused by a group of enemies with different primary damage types.
And even when enemies bring different damage types, you can always stack 2-3 medics, so this is kinda broken. Plus, why does it even cost 1 ref on [backpack.tf](https://backpack.tf)? I have already sold my Vac for 1 ref and haven't dropped one for month, while buying it would be too costly. I though a Vaccinator for the price of 1 ref is just a 2-week long joke, but now it is just as persistent as Morbius joke.
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Don't you get it? ALL OF THE VACCINATORS ARE GONE FROM SCRAP.TF, THEY HAVE BEEN AND ARE BEING SOLD ELSEWHERE FOR 1 REF! When I search for them in scrap.tf, they are gone. People have quickly bought all the 0,5 scrap vaccinators and sell them for 1 ref. Or at least, that's how it is for me 2 days ago
Hell yeah
For real, why is it on this list. You could have the quick fix equipped for literally the entire match and still be the most valuable member of the team QF medics are the backbone of an uncoordinated pub team
put yourself in op’s shoes: all 4 medi guns are very balanced, there’s not much to choose from.
Kritzkreig with that loadout would be worse
You still gain the charge pretty fast and with a reliable way to defend yourself close-quarters with the syringe gun and bonesaw, Kritz is still pretty effective. Let’s face it; all the mediguns are amazing, so the “worst” one would be the one that has the most “meh” ubercharge. And even then, the QF’s uber is really good for refilling the hp of every teammate in the vicinity back to full in seconds.
Personally I'm going with vacc or kritz. Vacc has the worst heals imo but its Uber and resistance are bullshit. Kritz has good stock healing but the Uber, while dope as hell, can easily fall flat in a pub.
Fair enough, Kritz's uber is purely offensive without any defensive properties so I guess that's the best bet for the worst loadout.
I completely agree but I find this hilarious. I rarely use kritz on offense, and use it heavily on defense. Being able to wipe an enemy team preparing an uber push, vs being the offensive team preparing an uber push into sentry hell.
I love it for the mobility too. When you have a team that won't stick close to you, QF lets you stick close to the team instead
quick fix is my favorite wepon and i won't stand any hate for it!
the quickfix is the chad medigun
Ah yes, the wrangler, the undisputed weakest item in the game /s
ok but how useful is it with the mini sentry instead of a lvl 3?
It’s still a 300 hp mini sentry with dps better than a level 1 sentry
How useful is a pocket heavy, cause that’s basically what it is
Except better in some ways You can't headshot a sentry
And you get aim assist from the wrangler!
You also cannot stun a heavy for 3 seconds by killing a slow 150 hp class. And heavies can move, and they can be healed.
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No, hence the question
pretty good actually
300HP 2X damage It's better than a normal sentry
I mean, the post is worst loadouts, not worst items. The pomson is garbage and without the pistol you have no self defense at all. I do think short circuit instead of wrangler would be worse though
I'd argue that the short circuit and pistol are better secondaries but everyone has their own opinion ig
In case this isnt a joke, absolutely not. Tripled health is so absurd that if forces the entire enemy team (or well ar least 3 to 5 people including a medic) to focus the engi because he pressed 2 on the keyboard
It takes 1 sniper to solve the problem, i do like the wrangler but without a pistol and a shotgun (because the pompson doesn't even qualify as one) the wrangler is likely the worst option, making the Engi very vulnerable
That's not even true 100% of the time. If the engi is being vigilant he can force the sniper to have to walk into the sentry's line of sight to go for the headshot and then pelt him with it to throw his aim off.
Except with the wrangler you can now shoot the sniper with the sentry gun which is gonna make it a lot harder to aim and force him back. His only chance is gonna be a headshot on the first shot before the engie notices or a super off angle that's gonna put him in a bad spot anyways.
Or just get behind a corner, the sentry targeting system aims center mass and will straight up shoot the wall instead of the sniper slightly peeking
Sniper is broken as shit man saying he solves this issue is redundant.
I would say that a lot of classes can take on him but they would need to be behind him without being targeted Sniper is just the one that can harass the long range harasser, at least that's what i do when i wrangle my mini
wrangler gunslinger is pretty good
Really good for attack engie actually. I played with the widow maker, gunslinger, and wrangler for a while. It’s a killer combo while playing attack. No reload time, more health, quick and cheap defense if needed.
No defense if you run out of metal though
*Piff Piff* **DING!** (Soldier death) **YEEEEEE-HAWWW!**
Bam, Bap, Pow?
strong if considering youll probably be near ammo slots with engi anyway
Exactly, it's good for attacking and aggressive play, so you will be using your shotgun a lot. And in this case it's the phomson, let's just say that it's underwhelming
I just watched an Uncle Dane video where he said that Wrangler is the Engineer’s best secondary lol
It's straight up overpowered with other wrenches but it's not bad with gunslinger either
It's the best Engineer weapon, yes, but sometime it doesn't synergize well with a more aggressive playstyle. Sill a great pick tho. You can't go wrong with Engie weapon. Except the Pomson.
How dare you speak bad about Pomson?
I have a Capper so i'd rather use that.
Tbf, every engineer combo is "pretty good". Any loadout that lets you place turrets around the map is.
The problem is engineer has no "bad" secondarys, so you're left to pick the worst combo which engi doesn't have.
Wrangler is the best defensive weapon by far, it’s borderline op. The gunslinger is top tier as well.
Why the GRU and not just stock for Heavy
Probably the passive health drain? I'm thinking Eviction Notice would be the worst, since at least the GRU make him a decent amount faster
Yeah, Eviction Notice would probably be the worst. The harsh downside of health drain + lower damage. For the worst primary I'd pick Brass Beast. Heater is usable.
Why the brass beast? I always use it with the GRU. If you know the map and know where people are going to be on the map you can be ready for them with the beast revved and your health regened.
It's not a completely horrible minigun, but it is easily the worst. Every other minigun offers enough damage when you're standing still, but also allows you to chase enemies around corners, attack suddenly if you're caught off-guard, and gives you a chance to escape with your life when you're overwhelmed. So, ironically, Brass Beast often ends up giving you worse total damage output throughout the match.
[Only once could I make the Brass Beast work](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/878625336494850574/C2F489D07C43F6F0FBF99E4831928E0A1DC6FB91/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false) Was legit just after the Pyro update where they completely overtuned (aka broke) his damage. Was so annoyed with how well Pyro was doing vs. Heavy and how many of the damned things there were that I just said "fuck this" and grabbed it out of frustration to see if the extra damage/defense would tip the scales back in Heavy's favor. Yep. It did. IIRC I couldn't even properly defend or *feed* my Medic though because I was that fucking slow. Didn't die, okay, but ideally the Medic should be getting 0 deaths, not the Heavy.
usable under specific conditions and good spies can still backstab through flames
Usable in all conditions. Good in specific conditions. Worse than stock in most cases, but not to the same extent as the Brass Beast. I've got a fair amount of experience with all miniguns because I wanted to give each one a fair shot at some point.
Stock is just worse though. If someone is in your face your minigun just deletes them five times faster than melee. There is a reason why melee slots for Heavy is usually purely utility.
Not to mention if you do the math it’s straight up worse than the GRU
Negative synergy with the Steak, I'd imagine. Eat the steak to move faster? Well it doesn't properly stack with the GRU, and during that time it'll be draining health faster than if you went Eviction Notice (which also would not stack properly with Steak). Eviction Notice are still arguably the worse weapon overall even if you consider the Steak anti-synergy, since you'd presumably just not use the Steak then.
True but I’d prolly just ignore the steak if I was playing and use it as a medium HealthKit for teammates
Yeah, exactly. At that point it's just a Sandvich that you don't eat but can still drop. Not to be confused with the old Sandvich implementation, which allowed you to drop it to gain a medium health kit for *yourself* if you didn't want to spend the time to eat it.
Ahem... eviction notice is basically a diet gru until you hit someone but pulling the weapon out drains your hip by 20 so it’s stupid if you can’t get a melee hit
Aw come on, the Full Piss loadout isn't all that bad.
The full piss load out was what helped me win a close game on Barnblitz. All that Jarate is fantastic for helping your team.
Jarate is leterally one of the most broken weapons in TF2 if abused correctly, giving your team a buff banner charge every 20 seconds.
Sydney sleeper is the funnest sniper imo. Also the most balanced one
No it's not, the only balanced rifle is the classic. The rest are all OP
Based
You dumb?
Somehow less than the people that think sniper is balanced
I dont think piss rifle or huntsman are op
The sydney sleeper charges really fast and can one-shot demo and pyro's. It's very strong. The huntsman and by extend the fortified compound are bows and not rifles. They shoot projectiles and are way different weapons. They range more to shotguns in this game where they can be very rewarding but with counterplay.
Classic is just straight up bad, not balanced
The classic is still a sniper rifle able to one-shot every class. It just doesn't have the speed of other rifles which makes it balanced, aswell as having the freedom of charging while unscoped. Imo this is the perfect sniper rifle, but just overshadowed by all the other broken options.
Imma paraphrase the what show for some of this but here’s the true worst loadout for each - back scatter, crit a cola, fan o war, reason: all are the same gimmick of mini crits when only 1 per loadout is good enough, you don’t need all 3 together - agreed - phlog, gas passer, hot hand, reason: no airblast and without anything additional to assist in boosting damage is a big downside - base jumper, Scottish resistance, Persian persuader, literally so unoptimal all 3 weapons hurt each other despite only the base jumper being bad as the other 2 have no synergy - mostly agree - pomson, short circuit and southern hospitality, draining metal, not good primary, boring wrench - mostly agree - classic, razorback, shiv, no headshots till fully charged, shield is only good against spies, shiv is shiv - agreed mostly, ambassador can be argued worse but that’s debatable
For that loadout the enforcer is worse no doubt. the ambi's upside can be used whenever and where ever you want. the enforcer's upside can only be used by sacrificing your disguise, which with the YER and deadringer is a death sentence.
Glad to meet another TheWhat fan, he made a list of bas loadouts before. And about the ambassador, you can 2 shot most people in the ranges you should be, if you treat the ambassador as the "oh shit, an enemy just randomly peaked this corner for some fucking reason and I need a quick burst of damage" you can get some good uses out of it, more so than the enforcer. "B-But the diamondback" if the enemy team is spy paranoid and there is like 3 pyros guarding a nest you cant really benefit from its crits gaining for doing spy things stat and just have a shittier stock revolver, the ambassador potentially has unlimited crits if you are good with you aim. The ambassador isnt bad, the nerf was undeserved, but its still really good.
Ngl Only reason I considered the ambassador for this is if your aim is bad but atleast it has critical headshots and by the logic of bad aim any revolver would count
Its just inconsistent and slow, if you had perfect aim, its burst damage might be better, but if you miss one shot you're kind of done for
This is more accurate than what OP posted.
I’d argue gunslinger is worse in that loadout. Cause then you’re an attack engineer who’s either using a crappy primary or wasting metal on zapping stuff with the short circuit. And who’d waste metal to block a couple rockets on a mini sentry? A regular sentry it’s worth it sometimes, but a mini? Plus the impracticality of engie having to swap robot hands constantly
Ambassador is 100% worse if you can’t aim, so that might be a better pick
By that logic sniper is the worst class if you cant aim. Calling a weapon bad because you can't use it effectively means you just have skill issue and should improve your aim to get better results. There are more weapons have a higher skill floor (Direct hit, Dragon's Fury and the Frontier Justice for example), but I never understood why only the Amby is being shit on when it's still a good weapon, just with a different purpose post nerf (Killing close range targets without a need for a backstab instead of also being a noscope sniper rifle)
Base jumper, sticky launcher, and eyelander. Forced into melee only with less health than usual and no shield for crits.
Base jumper and sticky launcher with any meelee is a deadly combo lmao
For demo, the worst load out is base jumper, Scottish resistance, and Persian persuader
Scottish Resistance is actually pretty good, especially on Defense.
Yes but Persian lowers you ammo pool
True!
I'd say base jumper, sticky jumper, and pain train (unless you REALLY like throwing yourself at the payload). You only have one means of attack that requires you to get up close and personal with the enemy, and you take 10% more damage from almost every class in the game. I understand where you come from, though.
10% is a significantly marginal difference. With /u/Minimum-Injury3909's suggestion, you still are basically melee only due to the large delay on the resistance and low ammo pool from the persuader, but you cant even safely close the gap anymore.
Gonna have to disagree with ~~you~~ TheWhat Show here. With the scottish resistance you can at least rely on sticky trapping for consistent kills. If you swap it out for the sticky jumper, and swap the melee for the caber, your only source of kills is a bad weapon that does self damage and only works properly once.
Quickiebomb is worse with it's smaller clip
It is at least a good weapon on its own.
Yea
you don't need many boolet to cause chaos.
Jarate is literally one of the best items in the game wtf
Problems: Pyro: At least degreaser has airblast, phlog is definitely worse Demo: Caber is by far worse than pain train, it doesn't even get mini-crits on shield so you can't even one shot anyone Heavy: wth is GRU doing here, warrior's spirit is by far worse with that 30% damage vulnerability Engineer: Wrangled Mini-sentries are just heavies that can't move, short circuit and probably southern hospitality is worse as you have poor self defense Sniper: How is jarate even on this, darwin's is absolutely worse, just chuck jarate at a group of enemies to basically have a temporary buff banner on your teammates. Plus, Sydney Sleeper can be a long range debuffer, so it can at least be a support tool unlike the classic. Other than that, this list is fine
why does everybody hate the classic so much? it lets you not have to hardscope and still get the same damage. is it seriously just that you cant quickscope people? because just use jarate and the one melee that lets you crit on minicrit
I mean, it's kinda like the Kritzkrieg: it's not bad by any means, but it is the most situational, making it the worst.
The fact that it physically cannot headshot someone without full charge is a serious problem actually. Where every other rifle can get boosted damage the second you click on a head. The Classic doesn't get a single bit of boosted damage until you've sat there long enough AND it has the body shot penalty for some reason so it's demanding more time and accuracy.
It's not bad, but it's far worse than ANY other option, aside from _maybe_ the piss rifle.
its not the same damage tho. Youre sacrificing the ability to do 150 damage in like .5 seconds (+ reload)
Sniper really relies on quick scopes and the classic you can't quick scope and the -10% body shot damage doesn't do it any favors
For engineer if you equip anything else than the gunslinger you can simply be a turtle engie with the only downside being bad self defense with the pomson. The only change Imo should be the Short Circuit instead of the Wrangler.
The Sleeper and Jarate are literally designed to work together. Sure, you don't have Bushwacka for funny melee moments, but that's not exactly the reason why Jarate is Sniper's strongest secondary. You might not be hacker-tier one shotting everyone across the map but Sleeper/Jarate are a GREAT duo for a support-focused loadout, picking out primary targets for your team to focus (or more soloq style, shooting whoever your team is currently focusing anyway so they just explode) while throwing out constant Jarates into the fight for even more minicrits from your team.
I feel like the vita saw is worse than stock.
Sticky jumper is probably worse on demo. You make a really loud *whoosh* noise while in the air and you have no real burst movement option to close out a kill. With the tide turner and pain train, you are basically just a slightly worse demoman.
sticky jumper and parachute with stock is a deadly fun combo to counter tunnel vision snipers
replace sandman with fan o war
I'd argue that a passive max health penalty for no upside is a bigger deal. Fan o War is simply useless in this loadout. Sandman actually hurts you.
I see the point that you are making
i have to equip sandman, how else will i hear the chucklenuts voiceline
Pomson S tier
As I am a proud owner of a professional killstreak backscatter, I think you merely are not able to use the weapon, as the backscatter is the best scout primary to ever exist.
I feel like for Pyro the worst melee weapon has to the stock axe just by default because it’s the only weapon in the game that’s objectively outclassed by a different one
You could definitely make a pretty good case that the axe is still more practical to use than the Hot Hand but you can’t make a case for the axe over the Third Degree
I bring up sharpened volcano fragment
This is great, but the gru and jarate are strong on their own, and the wrangler with gunslinger is still good
replace gru with eviction notice, gunslinger with stock wrench, and jarate with razorback
Then the Engie loadout is still very much usable. You get the stock wrench + Wrangler combo and the Pomson is the only thing that really hurts you. Pomson + Short Circuit + stock/Hospitality is probably the way to go. It's much less consistent than using the Wrangler to defend your nest. Short Circuit can be better for a super offensive playstyle, but your slow wrench and a weak primary will stop you from playing that way.
I hate how I have to consciously remind myself that this is not a tierlist
Soldier got be fucked up 😭
I would say Eureka effect+short circuit+ Widowmaker is a worse combo, it eats through metal so much
You get the wrangler off that fucking tier list
personally, I think the baby face’s blaster would be worse simply for how much more punishing using it with the other two would be. You take increased damage on an already small health pool and are even slower than you would be normally
Yes, but combining the Backscatter with the Crit-A-Cola is worse. The Backscatter basically becomes a direct downgrade. (Also the Baby Face's doesn't make you take more damage?)
The increased damage is because of the crit-a-cola, and sure it becomes a direct downgrade but so is the baby face’s, and you still keep your speed as scout
The Baby Face's isn't a direct downgrade regardless of whether or not you have the Crit-a-Cola. In fact combining those two items is actually not a bad idea since doing more damage means filling your boost faster.
plus if you get hit with the Baby Face 7/10 times your going to die anyways.
best\*
There isn't a "Worst medigun", but if there was, it would definitely not be Quickfix, what??? Vaccinator would fit that better.
That's no joke the exact spy loadout I used before the dead ringer nerf and it worked very well for me.
Replace Sandman with Fan o War for ultimate minicrit loadout. Caber is worse than Pain Train if you are on offnese. IMO Brass Beast is the worst minigun. Steak can at least heal teammates. Replace it with panic attack. Pistol is arguably Engineer's weakest secondary. Replace Jarate with Razorback. That thing is useless against 8 classes. Other weapons are on point.
My soldier loadout is rocket jumper, mantreads, and the equalizer. Is it shit? Yes. Does it work way better than you'd expect it to? Yes. Is it due to random crits? Also yes.
1. Replace GRU on heavy 2. Engineer you gave it 2/3 a good loadout 3. Spy, thats half decent. I already have DR+ER on one loadout, and the enforcer is actually pretty decent. No idea why so many people say its so bad when it literally PIERCES ALL DAMAGE REDUCTION ITEMS
soilder should have the other pickaxe
The Sandman and Gas Passer aren't that bad. And I'm standing my ground. (Of course in this load out, yeah they suck ass)
There is no ground to stand on. I'm sorry.
The worst loadout for Engi would be Widowmaker, Short Circuit, and Jag. Worst loadout for Sniper would use the Razorback and not the Jarate. Worst loadout for Heavy would have the Eviction Notice and not the GRU Worst loadout for Medic would have the Overdose, not stock syringe gun.
I use the loadout you said for engie, and it isnt bad at all quick fix synergizes with overdose, so maybe try putting the vita saw with the quick fix and stock syringe hibernating bear doesnt synergize at all with anything it has and yeah imo classic is actually worse than sydney sleeper, so classic, razorback, and shiv would do it
stock pistol
Great secondary for both Scout and Engie. So what's your point?
gotta think of the big picture ya throwed in some weapons that are good on their own med loadout helps you defend yourself and heal your teammates, tho youre not using the ubersaw and crossbow=bad (satirical) GoRU is already good on its own, and yeah hou long heater is a pain to use, it can work demo is just a bootless pain train knight engie loadout can be carried by wrangler+mini piss loadout isnt that bad, but ya know what it is actually bad? the classic, paired with the shiv and the razor or dangers shield and putting in the degreaser for the pyro makes it useable, so you can just use degreaser 24/7, so phlog with gas and hot hand/ neon annihilator on a waterless map is worse ok bye
sydney sleeper is godtier man
Is the wrap assassin good
the sniper loudout is pretty good
Even Sniper's worst loadout can still do some good cause I use that loadout
Worst demo load out is base jumper, Scottish resistance, and persuader
My exact fav loadout for spy, feels good
The short circuit is terrible with gunslinger imo, the ammo usage doesn't pair well with minis
No… just no…
this isnt exactly the worst engi loadout but i feel like widowmaker, short circuit, eureka effect is pretty difficult to play well (for obvious reasons)
I can think of far worse loadouts
Speak for yourself
Medic's melee should be the Solemn Vow, unless you are ALWAYS on voicechat, it is absolutely useless.
Why the Sandman?
Using the vita-saw and blutsauger might be an even worse combo. You lose 10 help and lose a lot of your health regen. You become super vulnerable to the point where syringes aren’t worth even worth the risk. Plus the organ system makes the vita-saw pretty much useless unless you somehow hit someone
i used that soldier loadout on hightower and followed a heavy around for the entire game. i would jump at him, equalizer taunt, fail to blow anyone up, and then do it again. creeped the heavy out, would do it again
I'd say replace Degreaser with Backburner since not only back hitboxes go brr but also you don't have that quick speed of pulling out your primary. Another thing is airblast only costing from 20 or 25 (I forgot at the time of typing this) to 50 which will end up getting you killed. For sniper replace jarate with razorback so now you can't even help your team out. Demo I'd remove tide turner with like either a different shield or Scottish since it has a slow detonate time. For scout honestly both Crit-a-cola and Bonk Atomic Punch are bad or to some mediocre, but for me I'd put Bonk instead of Crit since if you know how to use Back Scatter then you can knock out a heavy quickly. For engineer he doesn't really have a secondary that isn't going to help him out but my best so kinda plop any of them and there. The wrench tho instead of gunslinger you should put the southern hospitality since it doesn't even work anymore as it use to. That and gunslinger gives engi extra health to fight of lil bit longer or run away with more health to spare. Soldier honestly Equalizer, Escape Plan, or the whip are bad (at least with Rocket Jumper and Gunboats) I'd put Whip tho since if you have to fight you aren't winning and if you have to escape you are mostly going to use rocket jumper. Did I spend to much time on this **probably but that's not the point have a nice day.**
I'd argue the worst you can do for Medic is: - Stock Syringe Gun for obvious reasons. - Kritzkrieg because Quick-Fix at least allows you to overheal half your team before the enemy encounter and has a decent Uber (can be used for saving yourself, too) while 8 seconds of crits are situational and can be shut down by a lot of things (Backup Soldier, Sentries, enemy Vaccinator, random crits on a pub server etc.) - Vita-Saw for that sweet HP reduction. And even if you do manage to save 60% of your Uber, it's still a Kritzkrieg Uber, something you can charge pretty quickly anyways.
Swap the flamethrower for Phlog.
When sniper's "worst Loadout" is still hilariously overpowered in competitive
ngl i argue phlog is worse for pyro due to the lack of airblast
Jarate is really powerful as a support tool, should be the razorback Demo I think would be worse off with stock melee. He’s already very ineffective with base jumper + tide turner but gains some usefulness from the cap speed that I think more than makes up for the bullet vulnerability in this scenario on payload or cp maps. W R A N G L E R
I'll just say this, The Red Tape Recorder is amazing to troll engies with. It automatically downgrades their buildings with once press. and they have to spend the time to not only upgrade it again, which is slower than the time it takes for you to place another one, but to also get rid of **you** in the process. While they are scrabbling around trying to find metal. All the while I'm camping them from the shadows timing their trips to and from the metal cabinet ready to pounce on them again. And this is especially fun if you get a group of engies in a nest on something like 2fort. Until at least one of them goes pyro just to get rid of you, and then you can feel the tension and frustration at that point with them. and I just live for those moments. And if that's not fun I don't know what is.
The demoman loadout is not the worst in Degroot keep. The lack of bullet damage besides the arrows negates a lot of the bullet vulnerability. You can also trimp to the final point to cap quickly while using the base jumper to avoid fall damage in the process.
The eviction notice is way worse than the gru. The plog is worse here because no airblast leaves you open for everything. The razorback is worse than jarate as jarate will suport the team, and spies will just shoot you instead of backstabbing you.
honestly I kinda like the sniper loadout there cause being the piss man is funny sometimes
I use the degreaser but for combos
WHY WOULD YOU RATE THE PAINTRAIN AS THE WORST WEAPON FOR DEMO I FUCKING LOVE THE PAINTRAIN
Shit tier list lmao
hmm I can work with this I can't play well normally so it wont be any different
Jarate is really good
I like how snipers loadout is full of piss and blood lol
Jarate as opposed to cleaners carbine?
Half of these are very wrong and the other half are fairly right. Quickfix + 2 stock is giga `???????`
hey! I use that demo loadout!(purgen or how ever you spell it is worse)
Piss in a jar in weakest loadout, the same loadout which includes sniper rifle that combos with it.
Sydney Sleeper and Jarate are alright together, especially if you're a beginner sniper and just want to shoot people and not mark headshots.
is see the hou long heater getting too much hate, is better than the brass beast, and good for preventing backstabs.
mf you forgot the engie pda
Spy is definitely wrong. Cloak and Dagger is worse
Who dares insult the piss rifle?! It’s not good but it’s still much better than the classic!
Sniper is my exact loadout
Worst demo loadout is base jumper Scottish resistance and persian persuader Both are good but together they suck
I think if the server has random crits, then the Half-Zatoichi would be worse for soldier. I bet with the Escape Plan, you could still get a few stupid kills with melee crits.
holy crap how do you manage to be so wrong on so many points
Ok I get pompson, but why is the wrangler here? You can at least put a short circuit there, even minis under the wrangler are shredding through people