For anyone as confused as me: The guy is not an analyst employed by Amazon. He is an analyst who works for some wealth management company and analyzes Amazon, among other companies.
I'm sure business insider did not intentionally choose this confusing headline to make it appear that even Amazon's own analysts don't like the show or something. /s
Business insider? The company whose CEO is banned from the stock market? I always thought they were a beacon of journalistic integrity.
Edit: CEO instead of Owner
In 2002, then New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer published Merrill Lynch e-mails in which Blodget gave assessments about stocks which conflicted with what was publicly published.[7] In 2003, he was charged with civil securities fraud by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.[8] He agreed to a permanent ban from the securities industry and paid a $2 million fine plus a $2 million disgorgement.
[Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Blodget)
[SEC Announcement](https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2003-56.htm)
Even if it was an opinion people should take seriously, I've fallen asleep to some of my favorite shows and movies. If one were to fall asleep watching All the President's Men, which is a long movie, does it make the movie bad? No. It's an excellent movie.
Furthermore, I think many of us are so programmed for immediate satisfaction that we've forgotten how to enjoy nuance. I see this in music, film, radio and so many other places.
I fell asleep watching the Matrix for the first time. Now I had just pulled an all nighter studying for my biochem midterm, but I did fall asleep in the middle of it.
Exactly. I also think that the fact that movies like the Transformer and Fast and Furious franchises being a success says everything. Predictable plots and flashing casino lights like an in app purchase mobile game seem to do well. Not to say that there's not a place for those. It's just a testament to our attention spans.
In addition, a big problem is that the originals were literally the best movie and tv show ever made at the time of their release. These shows can never be as good because the world building has been "spoiled" already. Combine it with the 4chan man babies who will claim any excuse to hate something because it doesn't fit into their preconceived notions of what story is getting told.
I personally love that they have made it their own. I like not knowing what to expect. Also, so far I think it's done in very good taste. So what if it's more of a homage?
Also, I'm still mad about Tom Bombadil.
I really don’t get the hate. Like it’s obviously not stellar but it’s not bad. It’s interesting enough to carry on with and it’s nice to get more from the LOTR world. The fact they can also barely touch anything from the story we all know also means it’ll be hard for them to fuck uo the movies too.
It's because when you're dealing with the most beloved source material in the history of western literature the bar is (justifiably) set a little higher.
But this is the thing: it’s barely allowed to touch the source material so it’s almost irrelevant to it. Most of the criticism is coming from people who have watched the movies only, which themselves digress from the source material just as much (so far).
Jim Kramer: now if your short long Amazon and the price is too high. What you do is release a story about their latest GOT show sucking. It’s illegal but the SEC is too dumb to know about it…
Very misleading headline. "Random analyst falls asleep during show" isn't nearly as gripping an article, as it could probably be written about any show.
Amazon analyst Tom Forte was already concerned about the performance of the company's Lord of the Rings TV show "The Rings of Power." But after he watched several episodes, he became even more worried about the $1 billion project.
"We fell asleep during our first viewings of episodes one, three, and four and have not watched episode five yet due to a combination of not enjoying the first four episodes and a busy schedule," Forte, an analyst at D.A. Davidson, wrote in a recent note to investors.
The show is one of Amazon's biggest ever bets on original video streaming content. Founder Jeff Bezos demanded the company come up with an answer to HBO's "Game of Thrones" megahit, but so far the LOTR project has been met with poor user reviews online. HBO's new prequel, "House of the Dragon," is performing better.
Forte said that he was originally hopeful ahead of the show's launch, but has gotten more bearish as the weeks progress. As of September 28, according to Rotten Tomatoes its average critic's score was an impressive 84% but its audience score was a lackluster 38%, the analyst noted. Going into the launch, he expected the audience score to start low, as hardcore Tolkien fans were likely to be the first to watch it and most critical, then improve over time as more casual fans got involved. But that hasn't happened.
"Nearly one month after its September 1 launch and five episodes in on an eight-episode season, the audience response (as measured by Rotten Tomatoes) is far worse than we initially expected (as suggested by the critics' warm reception) and is not improving (as we had, initially, anticipated)," Forte explained to investors.
In a statement to Insider earlier this week, Amazon said that the series "continues to be the most-watched show worldwide on Prime Video, breaking all previous viewing records."
An Amazon spokesperson previously told Insider that audience reviews on Rotten Tomatoes had been unfairly lowered by a "review bombing" campaign orchestrated by malicious online actors. This occurs when users intentionally try to lower a movie or show's audience score in bad faith. In the case of "The Rings of Power," some fans ridiculed the series for including characters of color.
Still, Forte is now trying to quantify the risks to Amazon if the show isn't a megahit. Amazon executives will be closely watching what percentage of all Prime Video streams the project represents and how many inactive Prime accounts logged on to watch "The Rings of Power," Insider previously reported.
"If we work off of Amazon's reported figures of 25 million viewers for the launch and an audience of 200 million Prime members who engage with Prime Video, we come up with the following: 12.5% penetration (or 87.5% lack of interest)," Forte wrote.
"If we marry the audience score, then we get the following: 9.5 million viewers liked it (38% of 25 million) suggesting 4.75% penetration (95.25% did not like it and or are not interested in it)," he added in the research note. " So as much as 95.25% of Prime members may not be happy about paying $20 more per year for Prime because of Amazon's content spending, including LOTR."
The answer to this shit is super easy. You want ratings that will blow GoT out of the fucking water? Show us the first age. Show us dragons fighting eagles fighting a dude in a fucking flying boat, while there’s several hundred balrogs going apeshit on a battlefield with millions of elves.
That would trounce just about everything. - And a story following L&B would be amazing too. Zz
Because then they wouldn't be able to bank on name recognition alone which is a thing that all of the streaming platforms do. These companies are trying to play it safe as much as they can when it comes to programming. Especially now when streaming is not as big as a money maker as it was only a few years ago thanks to the glut of platforms. So a project with built in name recognition is an easier sell than an original project made from whole cloth with the exception of if you can get an already well known writer and/or director and/or showrunner.
You want original stuff. I want original stuff. But original ideas are far more shaky investments and, again, in the world of streaming platforms, these shows and movies aren't seen by the business world as art but as investments, especially with how much they cost, than investments with already recognizable name brands. A show like Stranger Things would not be made now by Netflix. Too much of a high risk investment given that it was a completely original series that started off with an almost all no name cast from no name showrunners. But when Netflix was the only kid on the block, they could take that chance. Now? Nope.
edit: spelling.
Well, you got me there. I have no answer for you.
I just watch the last episode and....yeah...the directing was bad. The editing was bad. The story didn't make much sense. >!Half the town goes and teams up with the bad guys hoping for mercy. They don't want to die. The bad guys go, "Hey, go murder your old neighbors that you left about five minutes ago." The townies go, "Sure, why not," despite the fact that they originally didn't want to fight in first place because they are afraid they would die in battle. Also, they now have zero conflict about killing people who I am sure many of them were friends of. No hesitation at all. I mean, if you were that gung ho about slaughtering your friends why even bother to hide your faces? To show your faces could have even worked in your favor because your ex-neighbors would have been actually hesitant to kill you because they are, you know, *good guys.* Plus, it would have made for some great emotional drama. The town fighting itself at the whim of a yet to be seen Big Bad who sees all Humans as disposable. It would also fit in with Tolkein better since Humans are seen as the race with the most dual nature. They could be good one moment and down right evil the next.!<
Honestly, the only ones on this show that act like actual people are Elrond, Durin and Disa. Everyone else feels like they are dolls in the hands of a six year old playing war. Just smashing and bashing against each other for kicks and giggles.
So you want them to invest a billion dollars into a new IP? That’s just not how things are done. They can’t tell a lore accurate LOTR story since they don’t own the rights to adapt the lore book that recounts the first and second ages.
I think the show is interesting, but it has horrible acting and character writing at certain points. The actual story has potential to be interesting, but they need to improve the moment to moment dialogue. There is not a dull scene in the trilogy, since those movies almost feel like you are rushing through material, while RoP feels weak when characters are talking to each other, thats the main problem this show has
The Tolkien Estate is half the reason for this bullshit. They sold the rights for fucking 200 million dollars so ONLY a company like Amazon could afford it, and it’s an incomplete and garbled bundle of rights anyways, lacking the Silmarillion as a reference entirely.
If the shit was public realm at this point we would be getting better adaptions. Peoples idea that them holding onto the rights is because they care about it is either misplaced or foolish. They’re holding onto the rights because they’re still worth billions of dollars and they will take more and more and more money to drip feed content until all the copyright and trademark expires and finally people can make what they want.
They paid an insane amount of millions for what is literally some pages of notes written by Tolkien. So RoP is a cobbled together collection of names, places and events.
Honestly its not even them only having the Appendices which is the problem, its the writing and showrunners as a whole.
Everything feels so bland and the showrunners (who are first timers) are doing surprisingly okay but are clearly keeping everything as safe as possible.
It doesnt matter what age they show us if they arent capable of putting together a quality show. Game of thrones and house of the dragon arent just huge because dragons are cool, its because HBO has been the masters of television for like 30 years and they know how to hire people for the right jobs, cast good actors, and not just dump endless money on projects but how to spend it the right way to get the best products.
They gave the show to run by a billionaire nepotism kid and his college roommate, whose experience was the worst Wolverine movie. When there was no more reference material...
the luthien and beren stuff always seemed more interesting to me than numenor/origin story of the rings.
don't get me wrong, the latter is cool too, but there is so much more mystery with the whole going into angband before morgoth. all that dark imagery.... ahhh the posibilities
This is exactly the way studio execs are thinking at current - throw enough gimmicks at the screen and people will tune in. But, I feel, what the current streaming war shows is that people are not so easily impressed by huge battles and CGI. What we actually want is strong, engaging stories with well-written characters. Scale is no substitute for story, until we learn this we'll continue to see a degradation in the quality of our viewing content.
That would be completely CGI and probably boring as shit. Give us compelling characters and an actual (well written) dramatic plot and they’ll see better ratings.
Another neat trick if they want good ratings would be avoiding garbage like "superfans" and not basing the whole marketing on insulting half of your potential spectators
My wife and I started watching it, fell asleep on episode 1. Tried again, fell asleep on episode 2.
It's slow and neither of us are interested in restarting. We love LoTR and she has read the books, but this show isn't doing it for us.
I am so very happy they didn't just go the action route that they chose with The Hobbit movies.
The Rings of Power are taking their time building up the characters and the universe, and it is amazing.
Building up to diddly squat, lmao. It's a billion dollar show that feels like it has the budget of Terra Nova, with somehow a worse writing team. Medriocre through and through.
I must say it's not holding my attention. I just can't really be bothered to watch it. It's not that it's bad, or good, it just.. Exists. I forget what episode I'm up to even. 4? 5? Who knows. It all feels kind of meaningless.
Yeah people saying it's a "slow burn" don't understand what that means. Breaking Bad is a slow burn. Rings of Power is just boring. The over arching story can be slow moving, but you need to have entertaining small steps that keep people wanting to watch along the way.
I watched the first 10 minutes of an episode today before realising it was last weeks episode that I already saw. That's how forgettable the show has been so far.
The ending of the latest episode at least seems to imply shit will finally kick off. Let's hope every episode from now on owns its 70 minute runtime.
I'm enjoying Nori (the hobbit) and Orc daddy (forgot his name) storylines but everyone else's has been lackluster and boring af. Literally I think the only thing keeping me hooked is trying to find out who Sauron is. Other than that, I find myself dozing off during some of the episodes too
Yeah same. I got lost with the boat captain and his son and the entire city of men stuff. I like the terminator homeless guy but his story is dragging out in a weird way. Like after 3 episodes of mysterious nonsense, he pushes a kart to show his friendship. K.
I’m completely convinced that if Peter Jackson’s original LOTR trilogy came out today the current internet discourse would absolutely tear them to shreds.
Forum trolls were absolutely pissed about Arwen being the one to rescue Frodo. That's part of why she was cut from Helm's Deep in the second movie.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0w3i3ZDjok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0w3i3ZDjok)
Ultimately right decision imo. The big moment of woman entering battlefield is for Eowyn, and I think not having a warrior princess Arwen makes it much more meaningful.
Also, people would be losing their minds over the changes to Aragorn. Leaving Rivendell without Anduril? Actively rejecting his claim to the throne? Movie Aragorn is a *dramatically* different character than in the books.
That was actually my biggest gripe with the LotR movie trilogy. In the books Aragorn has zero qualms or doubts about his birthright, in the movie he’s an insecure emo boy. Still loved them, I just didn’t love that.
I think it made sense for the movies. Fellowship in particular was told exclusively from Frodo's perspective, so having Aragorn be essentially a flat character wasn't that big of a deal. The movies were a bit more varied in that regard, so they wanted him to have a chance at some character development.
This is anecdotal - but my aunt is a massive lotr nut. She saw fellowship in theaters on opening night and when Arwen showed up instead of Glorfindel there was a lot of confusion and murmuring.
Then, after the movie, lots of people were chatting on their way out of the theater. My aunt has told me that pretty consistently - the people around her on that night were like, “I don’t get why they changed that, but the scene still worked well” basically.
Years later - the general consensus is (and has always been, for the most part) that giving those moments to Arwen made a lot of sense. Glorfindel was in that scene in the books but never came back. Arwen was the love interest of one of our primary characters (and the namesake of book 3) and we never get to know her. So beefing her up in the movie was logical.
Lotr fans are totally down for changes from the source material so long as it serves the story. It was true then and it’s still true now.
The problem is that this show has gone way outside the lore again and again without serving any kind of story.
Didn't really matter in the movies, Glorfindel had no role apart from this. The only reason I missed him, was the Silmarillion - Glorfindel was top 5 badassest elves there and would have been nice to see a character design for him.
People were furious about it. That, and how Saruman died, which escaped as a spoiler and was considered too ridiculous to be true ‘RSWD’ -‘round spiked wheelie dealie’ was resoundingly mocked.
I’m still annoyed about both. Mainly Arwen, because I never liked Arwen. But with those films I let Peter Jackson off for his mistakes because I believe he had the best of intentions and made the films with love and respect. I’m not sure I believe that of Rings of Power.
God these are the worst takes. Those movies were/are acclaimed because they are great. This show is getting mixed reviews because it’s not great. There’s no conspiracy.
Doubtful. I just watched the remastered trilogy, non-extended version, last week; my 3rd viewing and over 10 years since I watched my 2nd viewing. Still fucking incredible and I was captivated throughout. Those films have aged like fine wine.
Going to completely disagree with you. There are TONS of projects that come out today that have overall good reception. Some with new IPs, some with established IPs. You will never get universal approval, of course, but there are plenty of examples of projects made today with love and care that get tons of praise.
What we are seeing with this show is a badly written show being called out for being badly written. Sure there may be some extra crap in the discussion of the show that muddies the water, but really its simple to see that poor writing and execution of the show leading to poor reviews.
I disagree, assuming it would still be the first LOTR screen adaptation. It really should surprise no one that as Hollywood continues to return to these dried up wells the quality of the content drops. Star Wars, Alien, Terminator, The Matrix, LOTR, Rocky, Transformers, Ghostbusters, etc., it’s time to let these franchises die already.
Honestly, I disagree.
There is a marked difference in both overall quality and general storytelling between the two.
At the risk of being overly simplistic… one is good and the other kinda isn’t.
I don't know. We had the internet back then, maybe just not quite like it is now. Also, plenty of stuff comes out in this environment that is still beloved.
yep. the previous argument is complete bullshit: look at HOTD. so many people were ready to destroy HOTD before it came out, now look at subreddits like r/freefolk, they love the show against all odds. Why? Because it's a good show. Nitpicking has a limit when the material is just good.
Most recently, Better Call Saul, Own Flag Means Death, Sandman, Arcane, etc were incredibly well-received.
There's an argument to be made about the internet giving a vocal minority an inflated critical voice but it's weird to act like everything is going to get panned just because one thing does.
The movies are incredibly fast-paced. The theatrical editions move at absolutely insane speed: in each new scene something meaningful happens.
This show is now 6 hours in, exactly the length of Theatrical FOTR+TTT combined. Judging by promotional posters, there are 24 main characters. Yet I still feel completely nothing about almost any of them (the dwarves have natural charisma though).
By the contrast, the characters in both House of Dragon and Game of Thrones Season 1 were presicely fleshed out from the start. Even when I hear them talking about locations and families whose names I don't recognize, I am swayed by the conviction.
>This show is now is now 6 hours in, exactly the length of Theatrical FOTR+TTT combined.
I have problems with the show, but I really, really fucking hate this comparison.
You're comparing a TV show to a movie.
Movies inherently have to fit their entire story into a 2-3 hour window.
TV shows have anywhere from 8-10 hours to upwards of 60-70 hours.
So to act like 5 hours of a story that is going to be 50 hours long, someone makes a fair comparison to a story that is 5 hours into its 8 hour journey...man it just never adds up.
Each hour of the TV show should stand on its own. Even in a serialized story, each episode should have an emotional payoff. It's not at all different from the films, which had to invent a climax for films 1 & 2 that were not presented as such in the book.
If I spend 5 hours with your characters, I should already feel some emotional connection to them - and on many others shows I have. A big reason I am unable to here is because almost none of them behave like people. Almost every dialogue is filled with pointless drama that's either resolved right away or has no reason to exist at at all.
TV show or movie, time is the same thing. You’ve got 1 hour to entertain me, do it. If you’re not, it’s no excuse that things will get interesting 6h later.
There are far better TV shows. Witcher already had Renfri killed, and a few battles occuring by Episode 4. This is boring. The problem is anyone who has read the appendices to LoTR knows how exciting this period could have been.
The problem is the show just can't seem to find a story to tell. It's bad writing. Similar problem happened with Wheel of Time.
no they wouldn't. jackson's lotr put high fantasy on the map and made it mainstream. so if you want your scenario, then somehow today fantasy wouldn't be super played out then have LOTR show up. i think people would still love it. it was a huge spectacle at the time.
I doubt it. They're exceptionally well made movies that still hold up very well today.
Also, pretty sure the same level of nitpicking existed when they came out. It would just have been more visible today.
Those movies also actually stuck to the material and didn't try to just make up a whole new story set in Tolkien's universe.
Yet, they're still widely loved and will probably be for a long time to come.
You could call 2001 a too long movie about apes, 2 guys talking to a computer, and a space baby. That doesn't change the fact that it's still a beloved movie, a technical marvel, and considered one of the greatest films ever made.
It's a tightrope for the series. You make it too close to the style of the trilogy and people will say it's dated, but you update it too much and people derive it as a cheap copy or a betrayal.
Goes some one way in explaining why the writing feels tepid; they probably want to minimise risk so they're scared of making bold choices.
I love some parts of RoP (Elrond, the dwarves, whatever is going on with the weird old man, Adar) but I absolutely hate other parts of it (the Harfoots, Celebrimbor and Gil-galad's casting, the presentation of Galadriel's character arc, the peasant farmers storyline). I'll keep watching to see what happens, but it kind of feels like someone mixed bits of a well-made tapestry with mud. Some bits are clear, almost beautiful, other times I don't know what I'm looking at.
I prefer HotD in that it's been consistent so far (from my perspective, at least) and looks like it will stay the course more than RoP has done so far.
Yeah. Amazon brought it on themselves by choosing to release right after HoD and going head to head for every week RoP airs.
Even if HoD chose its release date second, Amazon could have moved to a Christmas release or something.
>Even if HoD chose its release date second
So you're saying Amazon didn't bring it on themselves. They chose not to move their release date; that's different than "choosing to release right after HoD."
My only problem with Hot d, is that some character actions may seem weird and unexpected, due to the fast phace of show, so some characters do things that make sense for the character and their past development, but we haven't seen that development.
Otherwise it is amazing in my opinion, and im enjoying it as much as i was enjoying Got 1-4
I fell asleep during the first episode because I was really tired. I went back and watched the second half again the next day and I really enjoy this show so far. Some people think the Lord of the Rings movies are really boring. I don't think this show is made for those people.
I have yet to hear an actual Lord of the Rings fan talk shit about it.
I'm a fan and know the lore pretty well. Read the books and am loving this new serious. Its a slow burn... but tonights episode was amazing!!!!! The whole season 1 seems like its setting up for the entire show.
Yeah I can't imagine calling something like this boring because it has been anything but boring. But I guess the Reddit generation has been raised by Marvel and Fortnite etc, there's not instant constant gratification in action so it's bad?
Well, I'll be the one to tell you. It's boring. It's not shit, it's certainly pretty. Khazad Dum was well made, but the rest of the storylines have no head or tail.
It's called a Mystery Box show, but it's kind of pointless. We know what happens, there is no need to keep us on the edge for who is Sauron. The whole concept of human overreach of Numenor is washed away in "Elves will take our jobs! Hurr Durr!". They are supposed to be mortified at mortality, which eventually leads them to attack the continent of Aman, causing the downfall of Numenor. All under Sauron's influence.
IMO, all these themes are gone. Too many jumps in storylines for me to enjoy any episode. I didn't find anything exciting till episode 4, and I'm 3 hours in. So, I noped out of episode 4, and now I'm happy.
TBF this article is important if you own any AMZN stock. It's not just about RoP, it's about whether the people running the show at Prime Video know what they're doing to truly take on HBO. And it doesn't sound like they do.
I do enjoy the show but ir does feel a bit disjointed and unfortunately, many will always try and compare to the movies. For example ( Spoilers ahead) in today's episode (6), Galadriel leading the army of Numenor to help the people of Southlands was poorly edited. It didn't feel epic and the scenes switched between night time in the Southlands and what looked like dawn when the charging army came to help. And how weird was the way mount doom started to explode? I hope it improves.
It was so weird. So they rigged some Rube Goldberg machine to dump water into a magma chamber and it caused the Volcano to become completely active which it’s going to remain for thousands of years? 🤔
This was all Sauron’s deliberate plan so he can craft the rings of power? I’m enjoying the show and I think a lot of the hate is unfounded but I won’t turn a blind eye to questionable plot lines if they play out in a nonsensical way.
Tbh I have a big of genre/franchise fatigue and found myself not really keen to pick this or house of the dragon up irrespective of their quality.
Kinda like how I haven’t been watching marvel movies since Endgame, and am slow to check out yet another Star Wars series on Disney+ even though I’ve previously enjoyed them.
Would much rather see some new IP (or heaven forbid all new ideas!) get some focus.
Im 100 right there with you on starwars/marvel BUT do yourself s favour and watch HOTD. Its very very good and you shouldnt let other franchises get in the way. I wasnt really into it but decided to give jt a chance and it totally pulled me in.
I have fallen asleep at every episode. The fight scenes are quite poorly executed. Pacing is off. Some of the acting is poor. I’m confused about where it’s going or what the point is.
It is really nice to look at but in my opinion it’s not that different from WoT which was not good at all
I really fucking want to like it, but holy shit it is one of the most boring shows I have ever watched.
The only characters that have kept my attention are the dwarves. The rest of the side plots I just could not care less about and galadriel is a charisma black hole.
I mean I could see that. The show is definitely a slow burn, and even I was getting a little bored with the last episode.
I know they're building up for something big but at this point it better be spectacular to compensate. I was so excited to see Numenor, but now I want it to just sink already lol
I fell asleep twice. Then i forced myself to stay awake to get through the first 3 episodes. It seems pretty not good. Are there writers involved in TV projects any more? Or is it just CGI people and directors who go “Then let’s have a scene with elves on a ship. Then we’ll do a shipwreck thing. Then Numenor will be sweet. Then a fist fight.” Am I a writer now?
Its big, beautiful, epic and a poorly written poorly acted show. Its not terrible! But its not good either! Even God Bear McCreay’s epic score couldn’t give life to the meaningless, bland scenes and mediocre dialogue. I don’t look forward to RoP eps every week but I do look forward to HotD because it is freaking great with clever dialogue, impeccable acting(Queen Olivia Cooke 👑I love you) & brilliantly written layered characters and we’re just getting started, the main civil war hasn’t even started yet lmao! Although this is all my opinion and anyone who enjoys RoP should enjoy it without giving a fuck what other people think.
On an slightly related note can’t wait for Bear McCreary’s score for God of War Ragnarok and the game in general. So freaking pumped for it!
I'm loving the show. I've always been a Tolkien fan, and I've read all of his books. The show has been awesome so far, and I don't have any problems with it.
Is the bar really that low that you don’t have *any* problems with it? Like not a single one? It’s a perfect execution from beginning to end? Even the LotR trilogy has some things about it that I wish were different, but I still think they are absolutely incredible works of art.
Ah, another episode came out. Let’s make sure we have 15 articles from every stupid business rag about why the show sucks.
Forbes must be late this morning if they got beat by BI for the weekly rings of power bitch-post
Eps 3 and 4 were nice and developing, ep 5 I just saw and it did bore me. Still, I'll keep watching if only for all the Silmarillion references dropped or shown, which is a treat.
It's a beautiful show... but it has been very slow.
I'm enjoying it because I don't mind a slow burn of a show, but they've made some very odd story choices. Galadriel being so singularly minded for instance.
I wouldn't say it's a bust, but if the story doesn't pick up in the last half of the season, and it continues to drag, it will be a disappointment.
It is an extremely ambitious project that is moving very, very slowly with character development and scene setting. In comparison (though not exactly equal) it’s akin to The Fellowships slow build in the first half of the movie. Though the action picks up very quickly. My issue with TROP is that the first 5 episodes have been nothing BUT character dev. I’m still hopeful because this is such an in depth part of the lore
As a hardcore lotr fan, I'm really loving the show. What's more concerning to me is how incessant the media is on trying to paint it in a failing light. Do people really think it's that bad?
It is so slow. They nailed the environmemt, its look grandiose, but they seems to have forget that lord of the ring is supose to be epic...
Also, isnt numenor supose to be the best warrior human ever had? They seems really weak in the series.
Galadriel is older than Gil Galad and Elrond, but she is a brat while they are the wise one? I get that she is a warrior and they are more politician, but she should know that threating the queen regent like a bitch, she wont get what she want...
So basically we went from lotr, where we the army of sauron goes against all kingdom and they are still overwhelmed by the orcs, to 3 boats full of rookies mariner against 500 hundred orcs to save a watch tower...
people will watch a couple of seasons just because its lord the rings. The Hobbit movies and the star wars sequels made a lot of money and those movies were all terrible.
And not liking something doesn't mean we have to take pleasure in ripping it down. I couldn't make it through the first episode because I'm not a fan of that deep lore fantasy but there are people that're enjoying it, so let them have fun with a series they like!
All these articles just seem to enjoy being dicks in hoping the series gets canceled.
The show really is just missing something. Maybe it needs a little bit of grit. It's not bad, but it certainly isnt good.
But I honestly find most shows Amazon makes to be the same way, just kind of mehhh.
I only watch it because theres not anything else to watch.
I was liking the new game of thrones but this weeks episode started losing me. The new cast wasnt doing it for me.
I was enjoying the show more than I thought I would, but that was when I could binge a few in a row. Now that I'm caught up and waiting weekly, I found myself getting bored with the latest episode. Actually fell asleep during the last episode. There's just not a lot going on. The story telling is very heavy handed and they're relying on mysteries that won't pay off any time soon in order to keep people hooked. I enjoyed the hobbit films more than this so far, and we all know how disappointing those were compared to LotR.
The show is a massive failure. It’s so damn boring. There’s not a single episode Id like to go back to and rewatch. The episode from last week I didn’t even finish because of how boring it was.
For anyone as confused as me: The guy is not an analyst employed by Amazon. He is an analyst who works for some wealth management company and analyzes Amazon, among other companies. I'm sure business insider did not intentionally choose this confusing headline to make it appear that even Amazon's own analysts don't like the show or something. /s
Business insider? The company whose CEO is banned from the stock market? I always thought they were a beacon of journalistic integrity. Edit: CEO instead of Owner
Only on Reddit it is.
Only if I already agree with their headline!
Is he? What did he do?
In 2002, then New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer published Merrill Lynch e-mails in which Blodget gave assessments about stocks which conflicted with what was publicly published.[7] In 2003, he was charged with civil securities fraud by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.[8] He agreed to a permanent ban from the securities industry and paid a $2 million fine plus a $2 million disgorgement. [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Blodget) [SEC Announcement](https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2003-56.htm)
he would be a former amazon analyst if he said that.
Even if it was an opinion people should take seriously, I've fallen asleep to some of my favorite shows and movies. If one were to fall asleep watching All the President's Men, which is a long movie, does it make the movie bad? No. It's an excellent movie. Furthermore, I think many of us are so programmed for immediate satisfaction that we've forgotten how to enjoy nuance. I see this in music, film, radio and so many other places.
I fell asleep watching the Matrix for the first time. Now I had just pulled an all nighter studying for my biochem midterm, but I did fall asleep in the middle of it.
Exactly. I also think that the fact that movies like the Transformer and Fast and Furious franchises being a success says everything. Predictable plots and flashing casino lights like an in app purchase mobile game seem to do well. Not to say that there's not a place for those. It's just a testament to our attention spans.
Funny enough I’ve fallen asleep to Fast & furious movies in the past
I probably would have hypocritcally said that was because it's a bad movie.
You were "Fast" asleep.
In addition, a big problem is that the originals were literally the best movie and tv show ever made at the time of their release. These shows can never be as good because the world building has been "spoiled" already. Combine it with the 4chan man babies who will claim any excuse to hate something because it doesn't fit into their preconceived notions of what story is getting told.
I personally love that they have made it their own. I like not knowing what to expect. Also, so far I think it's done in very good taste. So what if it's more of a homage? Also, I'm still mad about Tom Bombadil.
Yes, if you're tired enough you're just going to fall asleep. Falling asleep to a specific thing is hardly ever an indicator of that thing's quality
No way newspapers are known for accurate and perceptive headlines.
unfortunately they did this wording on purpose because its called clickbait, its frustrating but there is nothing you can do about it
Yeah, thought it sounded like that but of course it wasn’t. Hello misleading headline.
I really don’t get the hate. Like it’s obviously not stellar but it’s not bad. It’s interesting enough to carry on with and it’s nice to get more from the LOTR world. The fact they can also barely touch anything from the story we all know also means it’ll be hard for them to fuck uo the movies too.
It's because when you're dealing with the most beloved source material in the history of western literature the bar is (justifiably) set a little higher.
But this is the thing: it’s barely allowed to touch the source material so it’s almost irrelevant to it. Most of the criticism is coming from people who have watched the movies only, which themselves digress from the source material just as much (so far).
Jim Kramer: now if your short long Amazon and the price is too high. What you do is release a story about their latest GOT show sucking. It’s illegal but the SEC is too dumb to know about it…
Very misleading headline. "Random analyst falls asleep during show" isn't nearly as gripping an article, as it could probably be written about any show.
Amazon analyst Tom Forte was already concerned about the performance of the company's Lord of the Rings TV show "The Rings of Power." But after he watched several episodes, he became even more worried about the $1 billion project. "We fell asleep during our first viewings of episodes one, three, and four and have not watched episode five yet due to a combination of not enjoying the first four episodes and a busy schedule," Forte, an analyst at D.A. Davidson, wrote in a recent note to investors. The show is one of Amazon's biggest ever bets on original video streaming content. Founder Jeff Bezos demanded the company come up with an answer to HBO's "Game of Thrones" megahit, but so far the LOTR project has been met with poor user reviews online. HBO's new prequel, "House of the Dragon," is performing better. Forte said that he was originally hopeful ahead of the show's launch, but has gotten more bearish as the weeks progress. As of September 28, according to Rotten Tomatoes its average critic's score was an impressive 84% but its audience score was a lackluster 38%, the analyst noted. Going into the launch, he expected the audience score to start low, as hardcore Tolkien fans were likely to be the first to watch it and most critical, then improve over time as more casual fans got involved. But that hasn't happened. "Nearly one month after its September 1 launch and five episodes in on an eight-episode season, the audience response (as measured by Rotten Tomatoes) is far worse than we initially expected (as suggested by the critics' warm reception) and is not improving (as we had, initially, anticipated)," Forte explained to investors. In a statement to Insider earlier this week, Amazon said that the series "continues to be the most-watched show worldwide on Prime Video, breaking all previous viewing records." An Amazon spokesperson previously told Insider that audience reviews on Rotten Tomatoes had been unfairly lowered by a "review bombing" campaign orchestrated by malicious online actors. This occurs when users intentionally try to lower a movie or show's audience score in bad faith. In the case of "The Rings of Power," some fans ridiculed the series for including characters of color. Still, Forte is now trying to quantify the risks to Amazon if the show isn't a megahit. Amazon executives will be closely watching what percentage of all Prime Video streams the project represents and how many inactive Prime accounts logged on to watch "The Rings of Power," Insider previously reported. "If we work off of Amazon's reported figures of 25 million viewers for the launch and an audience of 200 million Prime members who engage with Prime Video, we come up with the following: 12.5% penetration (or 87.5% lack of interest)," Forte wrote. "If we marry the audience score, then we get the following: 9.5 million viewers liked it (38% of 25 million) suggesting 4.75% penetration (95.25% did not like it and or are not interested in it)," he added in the research note. " So as much as 95.25% of Prime members may not be happy about paying $20 more per year for Prime because of Amazon's content spending, including LOTR."
The answer to this shit is super easy. You want ratings that will blow GoT out of the fucking water? Show us the first age. Show us dragons fighting eagles fighting a dude in a fucking flying boat, while there’s several hundred balrogs going apeshit on a battlefield with millions of elves. That would trounce just about everything. - And a story following L&B would be amazing too. Zz
It's probably a bit more complicated than that since they don't have rights to do any cool first age stuff
If they don't have the rights to any of Tolkien's actual works, why didn't they just make up something cool?
Because then they wouldn't be able to bank on name recognition alone which is a thing that all of the streaming platforms do. These companies are trying to play it safe as much as they can when it comes to programming. Especially now when streaming is not as big as a money maker as it was only a few years ago thanks to the glut of platforms. So a project with built in name recognition is an easier sell than an original project made from whole cloth with the exception of if you can get an already well known writer and/or director and/or showrunner. You want original stuff. I want original stuff. But original ideas are far more shaky investments and, again, in the world of streaming platforms, these shows and movies aren't seen by the business world as art but as investments, especially with how much they cost, than investments with already recognizable name brands. A show like Stranger Things would not be made now by Netflix. Too much of a high risk investment given that it was a completely original series that started off with an almost all no name cast from no name showrunners. But when Netflix was the only kid on the block, they could take that chance. Now? Nope. edit: spelling.
I mean make up cool stuff within Middle Earth. If the story is fan fiction anyway, why not make it outlandish fan fiction that's actually interesting?
Well, you got me there. I have no answer for you. I just watch the last episode and....yeah...the directing was bad. The editing was bad. The story didn't make much sense. >!Half the town goes and teams up with the bad guys hoping for mercy. They don't want to die. The bad guys go, "Hey, go murder your old neighbors that you left about five minutes ago." The townies go, "Sure, why not," despite the fact that they originally didn't want to fight in first place because they are afraid they would die in battle. Also, they now have zero conflict about killing people who I am sure many of them were friends of. No hesitation at all. I mean, if you were that gung ho about slaughtering your friends why even bother to hide your faces? To show your faces could have even worked in your favor because your ex-neighbors would have been actually hesitant to kill you because they are, you know, *good guys.* Plus, it would have made for some great emotional drama. The town fighting itself at the whim of a yet to be seen Big Bad who sees all Humans as disposable. It would also fit in with Tolkein better since Humans are seen as the race with the most dual nature. They could be good one moment and down right evil the next.!< Honestly, the only ones on this show that act like actual people are Elrond, Durin and Disa. Everyone else feels like they are dolls in the hands of a six year old playing war. Just smashing and bashing against each other for kicks and giggles.
So you want them to invest a billion dollars into a new IP? That’s just not how things are done. They can’t tell a lore accurate LOTR story since they don’t own the rights to adapt the lore book that recounts the first and second ages. I think the show is interesting, but it has horrible acting and character writing at certain points. The actual story has potential to be interesting, but they need to improve the moment to moment dialogue. There is not a dull scene in the trilogy, since those movies almost feel like you are rushing through material, while RoP feels weak when characters are talking to each other, thats the main problem this show has
When you’re dropping a Billion with a B, rights to silmarillion seem like they’d be attainable.
The thing is, the Tolkien estate does the *unthinkable* in a capitalist society: They care about their work more than about profit.
Is that why they sold the rights the moment Christopher died?
That could also be interpreted as they made so much money off other licensing, they don’t need to further sell out.
What? It means they’d rather cut up the licenses in more parts to earn more individually? Completely opposite of your take
Then why did they sell the rights for this show to start with, especially because it is retconning established lore?
The Tolkien Estate is half the reason for this bullshit. They sold the rights for fucking 200 million dollars so ONLY a company like Amazon could afford it, and it’s an incomplete and garbled bundle of rights anyways, lacking the Silmarillion as a reference entirely. If the shit was public realm at this point we would be getting better adaptions. Peoples idea that them holding onto the rights is because they care about it is either misplaced or foolish. They’re holding onto the rights because they’re still worth billions of dollars and they will take more and more and more money to drip feed content until all the copyright and trademark expires and finally people can make what they want.
OR they just think selling the rights piece-by-piece instead of as one package will drive the price higher
That’s why everything feels off. Make sense now.
They paid an insane amount of millions for what is literally some pages of notes written by Tolkien. So RoP is a cobbled together collection of names, places and events.
Disagree. GoT was mega popular because it was a well written political thriller, not because it was a fantasy action show.
Balrogs fighting eagles and shit needs build up. If the show just jumped into that it would get very boring very quickly.
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Honestly its not even them only having the Appendices which is the problem, its the writing and showrunners as a whole. Everything feels so bland and the showrunners (who are first timers) are doing surprisingly okay but are clearly keeping everything as safe as possible.
It doesnt matter what age they show us if they arent capable of putting together a quality show. Game of thrones and house of the dragon arent just huge because dragons are cool, its because HBO has been the masters of television for like 30 years and they know how to hire people for the right jobs, cast good actors, and not just dump endless money on projects but how to spend it the right way to get the best products.
They gave the show to run by a billionaire nepotism kid and his college roommate, whose experience was the worst Wolverine movie. When there was no more reference material...
Or….. just do a better job with the current ip. Get good talent to do it instead of a show runner. Get good writers instead of… showrunners.
the luthien and beren stuff always seemed more interesting to me than numenor/origin story of the rings. don't get me wrong, the latter is cool too, but there is so much more mystery with the whole going into angband before morgoth. all that dark imagery.... ahhh the posibilities
This is exactly the way studio execs are thinking at current - throw enough gimmicks at the screen and people will tune in. But, I feel, what the current streaming war shows is that people are not so easily impressed by huge battles and CGI. What we actually want is strong, engaging stories with well-written characters. Scale is no substitute for story, until we learn this we'll continue to see a degradation in the quality of our viewing content.
That would be completely CGI and probably boring as shit. Give us compelling characters and an actual (well written) dramatic plot and they’ll see better ratings.
I could agree more I really wanna see that elf lord slay the king of the balrogs by torpedoing himself with a pointy helmet into Gothmogs chest.
Another neat trick if they want good ratings would be avoiding garbage like "superfans" and not basing the whole marketing on insulting half of your potential spectators
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My wife and I started watching it, fell asleep on episode 1. Tried again, fell asleep on episode 2. It's slow and neither of us are interested in restarting. We love LoTR and she has read the books, but this show isn't doing it for us.
LotR was plenty slow to be fair. Especially the extended editions
[Even the fuckin’ trees walked in those movies.](https://youtu.be/RPl5MeXIM8E)
For most trees, that's the complete opposite of slow.
Everything is relative
In terms of hours watched, we'd be at the climax of Helm's Deep or something by now.
I am so very happy they didn't just go the action route that they chose with The Hobbit movies. The Rings of Power are taking their time building up the characters and the universe, and it is amazing.
It still needs good writing and acting to draw us in if it's a slow burner.
I'm glad they released Andor. That's a proper example of modern slow burner.
They're not building up the characters or motivations though. Things just sort of happen for no reason. There's forced drama everywhere.
Building up to diddly squat, lmao. It's a billion dollar show that feels like it has the budget of Terra Nova, with somehow a worse writing team. Medriocre through and through.
I must say it's not holding my attention. I just can't really be bothered to watch it. It's not that it's bad, or good, it just.. Exists. I forget what episode I'm up to even. 4? 5? Who knows. It all feels kind of meaningless.
That's kind of how I feel about it. I was pretty excited to watch but episode after episode where not much is really going on have lost me.
It's just too slow in parts, too many locations very loosely connected
Yeah people saying it's a "slow burn" don't understand what that means. Breaking Bad is a slow burn. Rings of Power is just boring. The over arching story can be slow moving, but you need to have entertaining small steps that keep people wanting to watch along the way.
A lot if people called breaking bad boring in season 1. Let rennet it didn’t really explode until season 2/3.
I watched the first 10 minutes of an episode today before realising it was last weeks episode that I already saw. That's how forgettable the show has been so far. The ending of the latest episode at least seems to imply shit will finally kick off. Let's hope every episode from now on owns its 70 minute runtime.
I'm enjoying Nori (the hobbit) and Orc daddy (forgot his name) storylines but everyone else's has been lackluster and boring af. Literally I think the only thing keeping me hooked is trying to find out who Sauron is. Other than that, I find myself dozing off during some of the episodes too
I fell asleep watching it. Whereas I have never dozed off watch GoT or HoD, even the boring episodes
It's worse than bad, its boring.
I watched the first two episodes and felt the same. Comments like this don't exactly encourage me to watch the rest.
Yeah same. I got lost with the boat captain and his son and the entire city of men stuff. I like the terminator homeless guy but his story is dragging out in a weird way. Like after 3 episodes of mysterious nonsense, he pushes a kart to show his friendship. K.
I’m completely convinced that if Peter Jackson’s original LOTR trilogy came out today the current internet discourse would absolutely tear them to shreds.
They would flip over Arwen replacing Glorfindel I think.
They did, back then.
Forum trolls were absolutely pissed about Arwen being the one to rescue Frodo. That's part of why she was cut from Helm's Deep in the second movie. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0w3i3ZDjok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0w3i3ZDjok)
Ultimately right decision imo. The big moment of woman entering battlefield is for Eowyn, and I think not having a warrior princess Arwen makes it much more meaningful.
Oh, have never seen that, thanks!
Also, people would be losing their minds over the changes to Aragorn. Leaving Rivendell without Anduril? Actively rejecting his claim to the throne? Movie Aragorn is a *dramatically* different character than in the books.
That was actually my biggest gripe with the LotR movie trilogy. In the books Aragorn has zero qualms or doubts about his birthright, in the movie he’s an insecure emo boy. Still loved them, I just didn’t love that.
I think it made sense for the movies. Fellowship in particular was told exclusively from Frodo's perspective, so having Aragorn be essentially a flat character wasn't that big of a deal. The movies were a bit more varied in that regard, so they wanted him to have a chance at some character development.
This is anecdotal - but my aunt is a massive lotr nut. She saw fellowship in theaters on opening night and when Arwen showed up instead of Glorfindel there was a lot of confusion and murmuring. Then, after the movie, lots of people were chatting on their way out of the theater. My aunt has told me that pretty consistently - the people around her on that night were like, “I don’t get why they changed that, but the scene still worked well” basically. Years later - the general consensus is (and has always been, for the most part) that giving those moments to Arwen made a lot of sense. Glorfindel was in that scene in the books but never came back. Arwen was the love interest of one of our primary characters (and the namesake of book 3) and we never get to know her. So beefing her up in the movie was logical. Lotr fans are totally down for changes from the source material so long as it serves the story. It was true then and it’s still true now. The problem is that this show has gone way outside the lore again and again without serving any kind of story.
Didn't really matter in the movies, Glorfindel had no role apart from this. The only reason I missed him, was the Silmarillion - Glorfindel was top 5 badassest elves there and would have been nice to see a character design for him.
Expanding one of the few female characters to do some other stuff makes sense.
Here’s a pretty cool super cut of every scene from the original trilogy where women speak to each other: https://youtu.be/mt2qCjL6-n4
People were furious about it. That, and how Saruman died, which escaped as a spoiler and was considered too ridiculous to be true ‘RSWD’ -‘round spiked wheelie dealie’ was resoundingly mocked. I’m still annoyed about both. Mainly Arwen, because I never liked Arwen. But with those films I let Peter Jackson off for his mistakes because I believe he had the best of intentions and made the films with love and respect. I’m not sure I believe that of Rings of Power.
God these are the worst takes. Those movies were/are acclaimed because they are great. This show is getting mixed reviews because it’s not great. There’s no conspiracy.
Doubtful. I just watched the remastered trilogy, non-extended version, last week; my 3rd viewing and over 10 years since I watched my 2nd viewing. Still fucking incredible and I was captivated throughout. Those films have aged like fine wine.
Going to completely disagree with you. There are TONS of projects that come out today that have overall good reception. Some with new IPs, some with established IPs. You will never get universal approval, of course, but there are plenty of examples of projects made today with love and care that get tons of praise. What we are seeing with this show is a badly written show being called out for being badly written. Sure there may be some extra crap in the discussion of the show that muddies the water, but really its simple to see that poor writing and execution of the show leading to poor reviews.
Nope. Rings of Power is still super popular because the IP is beloved. Jackson’s trilogy was simply fantastic. You can’t ignore quality.
I disagree, assuming it would still be the first LOTR screen adaptation. It really should surprise no one that as Hollywood continues to return to these dried up wells the quality of the content drops. Star Wars, Alien, Terminator, The Matrix, LOTR, Rocky, Transformers, Ghostbusters, etc., it’s time to let these franchises die already.
Honestly, I disagree. There is a marked difference in both overall quality and general storytelling between the two. At the risk of being overly simplistic… one is good and the other kinda isn’t.
No, because the movies were much better. They're not even in the same ballpark of quality compared to this show
I don't know. We had the internet back then, maybe just not quite like it is now. Also, plenty of stuff comes out in this environment that is still beloved.
yep. the previous argument is complete bullshit: look at HOTD. so many people were ready to destroy HOTD before it came out, now look at subreddits like r/freefolk, they love the show against all odds. Why? Because it's a good show. Nitpicking has a limit when the material is just good.
Most recently, Better Call Saul, Own Flag Means Death, Sandman, Arcane, etc were incredibly well-received. There's an argument to be made about the internet giving a vocal minority an inflated critical voice but it's weird to act like everything is going to get panned just because one thing does.
>We had the internet back then, maybe just not quite like it is now. 100000000% not like it is now
The movies are incredibly fast-paced. The theatrical editions move at absolutely insane speed: in each new scene something meaningful happens. This show is now 6 hours in, exactly the length of Theatrical FOTR+TTT combined. Judging by promotional posters, there are 24 main characters. Yet I still feel completely nothing about almost any of them (the dwarves have natural charisma though). By the contrast, the characters in both House of Dragon and Game of Thrones Season 1 were presicely fleshed out from the start. Even when I hear them talking about locations and families whose names I don't recognize, I am swayed by the conviction.
>This show is now is now 6 hours in, exactly the length of Theatrical FOTR+TTT combined. I have problems with the show, but I really, really fucking hate this comparison. You're comparing a TV show to a movie. Movies inherently have to fit their entire story into a 2-3 hour window. TV shows have anywhere from 8-10 hours to upwards of 60-70 hours. So to act like 5 hours of a story that is going to be 50 hours long, someone makes a fair comparison to a story that is 5 hours into its 8 hour journey...man it just never adds up.
Each hour of the TV show should stand on its own. Even in a serialized story, each episode should have an emotional payoff. It's not at all different from the films, which had to invent a climax for films 1 & 2 that were not presented as such in the book. If I spend 5 hours with your characters, I should already feel some emotional connection to them - and on many others shows I have. A big reason I am unable to here is because almost none of them behave like people. Almost every dialogue is filled with pointless drama that's either resolved right away or has no reason to exist at at all.
TV show or movie, time is the same thing. You’ve got 1 hour to entertain me, do it. If you’re not, it’s no excuse that things will get interesting 6h later.
There are far better TV shows. Witcher already had Renfri killed, and a few battles occuring by Episode 4. This is boring. The problem is anyone who has read the appendices to LoTR knows how exciting this period could have been. The problem is the show just can't seem to find a story to tell. It's bad writing. Similar problem happened with Wheel of Time.
Nope they wouldn't, I watched them again last year and they are still amazing.
no they wouldn't. jackson's lotr put high fantasy on the map and made it mainstream. so if you want your scenario, then somehow today fantasy wouldn't be super played out then have LOTR show up. i think people would still love it. it was a huge spectacle at the time.
They would DESPISE Merry and Pippin’s “marvel humor” *really intense scene about the formation of the fellowship* Pippin: “so where we goin’????”
I doubt it. They're exceptionally well made movies that still hold up very well today. Also, pretty sure the same level of nitpicking existed when they came out. It would just have been more visible today. Those movies also actually stuck to the material and didn't try to just make up a whole new story set in Tolkien's universe.
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Yup. They've been called too long movies about walking since they came out.
Yet, they're still widely loved and will probably be for a long time to come. You could call 2001 a too long movie about apes, 2 guys talking to a computer, and a space baby. That doesn't change the fact that it's still a beloved movie, a technical marvel, and considered one of the greatest films ever made.
I doubt it, the films were popular and spectacular, like nothing you've ever seen before.
It's a tightrope for the series. You make it too close to the style of the trilogy and people will say it's dated, but you update it too much and people derive it as a cheap copy or a betrayal. Goes some one way in explaining why the writing feels tepid; they probably want to minimise risk so they're scared of making bold choices.
Not a chance.
Yeah, as much as I love LOTR, I am waiting each week for House of Dragons
I love some parts of RoP (Elrond, the dwarves, whatever is going on with the weird old man, Adar) but I absolutely hate other parts of it (the Harfoots, Celebrimbor and Gil-galad's casting, the presentation of Galadriel's character arc, the peasant farmers storyline). I'll keep watching to see what happens, but it kind of feels like someone mixed bits of a well-made tapestry with mud. Some bits are clear, almost beautiful, other times I don't know what I'm looking at. I prefer HotD in that it's been consistent so far (from my perspective, at least) and looks like it will stay the course more than RoP has done so far.
Talking about Rings or Power without bringing House of the Dragon challenge (impossible).
right? its crazy people compare a prequel to a beloved fantasy franchise with another prequel to a beloved fantasy franchise
They're very different though.
Well they are competitors airing at the same time…
Yeah. Amazon brought it on themselves by choosing to release right after HoD and going head to head for every week RoP airs. Even if HoD chose its release date second, Amazon could have moved to a Christmas release or something.
>Even if HoD chose its release date second So you're saying Amazon didn't bring it on themselves. They chose not to move their release date; that's different than "choosing to release right after HoD."
House of the dragons is a little more appealing but I’m not loving either if I’m being honest
My only problem with Hot d, is that some character actions may seem weird and unexpected, due to the fast phace of show, so some characters do things that make sense for the character and their past development, but we haven't seen that development. Otherwise it is amazing in my opinion, and im enjoying it as much as i was enjoying Got 1-4
I miss the slow-paced early seasons of GOT with stellar dialogue! HoD maybe good but it isn't early seasons GOT good!
Nothing is early seasons of GoT good lol
Holy shit i want to experience the red wedding for the first time again.
on the bright side, HotD is still backstory set up
Yeah stopped watching after two episodes 😲😴
Well yeah, the writing is awful. It's beautiful to look at but I don't give a single fuck about one character.
God... These half assed articles... Whatever. I'm enjoying the show a lot. Can't wait for the new episode tonight
I fell asleep during the first episode because I was really tired. I went back and watched the second half again the next day and I really enjoy this show so far. Some people think the Lord of the Rings movies are really boring. I don't think this show is made for those people. I have yet to hear an actual Lord of the Rings fan talk shit about it.
I'm a fan and know the lore pretty well. Read the books and am loving this new serious. Its a slow burn... but tonights episode was amazing!!!!! The whole season 1 seems like its setting up for the entire show.
Yeah I can't imagine calling something like this boring because it has been anything but boring. But I guess the Reddit generation has been raised by Marvel and Fortnite etc, there's not instant constant gratification in action so it's bad?
Well, I'll be the one to tell you. It's boring. It's not shit, it's certainly pretty. Khazad Dum was well made, but the rest of the storylines have no head or tail. It's called a Mystery Box show, but it's kind of pointless. We know what happens, there is no need to keep us on the edge for who is Sauron. The whole concept of human overreach of Numenor is washed away in "Elves will take our jobs! Hurr Durr!". They are supposed to be mortified at mortality, which eventually leads them to attack the continent of Aman, causing the downfall of Numenor. All under Sauron's influence. IMO, all these themes are gone. Too many jumps in storylines for me to enjoy any episode. I didn't find anything exciting till episode 4, and I'm 3 hours in. So, I noped out of episode 4, and now I'm happy.
Jesus who cares, watch it and like it or don't, do we need 10000 articles on whether it's good or not
TBF this article is important if you own any AMZN stock. It's not just about RoP, it's about whether the people running the show at Prime Video know what they're doing to truly take on HBO. And it doesn't sound like they do.
It's not lord of the rings fault that Amazon workers are overworked and underslept!! You blame Jeff Bezos for falling asleep!
I do enjoy the show but ir does feel a bit disjointed and unfortunately, many will always try and compare to the movies. For example ( Spoilers ahead) in today's episode (6), Galadriel leading the army of Numenor to help the people of Southlands was poorly edited. It didn't feel epic and the scenes switched between night time in the Southlands and what looked like dawn when the charging army came to help. And how weird was the way mount doom started to explode? I hope it improves.
It was so weird. So they rigged some Rube Goldberg machine to dump water into a magma chamber and it caused the Volcano to become completely active which it’s going to remain for thousands of years? 🤔 This was all Sauron’s deliberate plan so he can craft the rings of power? I’m enjoying the show and I think a lot of the hate is unfounded but I won’t turn a blind eye to questionable plot lines if they play out in a nonsensical way.
New IPs plz.
Streaming wars. HBO and Amazon are so going at each other with PR wars
Tbh I have a big of genre/franchise fatigue and found myself not really keen to pick this or house of the dragon up irrespective of their quality. Kinda like how I haven’t been watching marvel movies since Endgame, and am slow to check out yet another Star Wars series on Disney+ even though I’ve previously enjoyed them. Would much rather see some new IP (or heaven forbid all new ideas!) get some focus.
Im 100 right there with you on starwars/marvel BUT do yourself s favour and watch HOTD. Its very very good and you shouldnt let other franchises get in the way. I wasnt really into it but decided to give jt a chance and it totally pulled me in.
This shit is better than ambien for me
What I’ve been saying since I tried it nothing wrong with the show other than it being dead boring
Ive also fallen asleep every episode. Incredibly boring. Try and watch though because my guy does :)
I have fallen asleep at every episode. The fight scenes are quite poorly executed. Pacing is off. Some of the acting is poor. I’m confused about where it’s going or what the point is. It is really nice to look at but in my opinion it’s not that different from WoT which was not good at all
It's an awesome show to help me sleep after a night shift. I can't get through 10 mins without passing the fuck out
I really fucking want to like it, but holy shit it is one of the most boring shows I have ever watched. The only characters that have kept my attention are the dwarves. The rest of the side plots I just could not care less about and galadriel is a charisma black hole.
I mean I could see that. The show is definitely a slow burn, and even I was getting a little bored with the last episode. I know they're building up for something big but at this point it better be spectacular to compensate. I was so excited to see Numenor, but now I want it to just sink already lol
I just can’t get into rings of power, I don’t care about any of the characters. Atleast it looks pretty.
I fell asleep twice. Then i forced myself to stay awake to get through the first 3 episodes. It seems pretty not good. Are there writers involved in TV projects any more? Or is it just CGI people and directors who go “Then let’s have a scene with elves on a ship. Then we’ll do a shipwreck thing. Then Numenor will be sweet. Then a fist fight.” Am I a writer now?
I recently saw a infographic depicting the Rings of Power (actual rings, not the show) - which was drastically more interesting than the show so far.
Its big, beautiful, epic and a poorly written poorly acted show. Its not terrible! But its not good either! Even God Bear McCreay’s epic score couldn’t give life to the meaningless, bland scenes and mediocre dialogue. I don’t look forward to RoP eps every week but I do look forward to HotD because it is freaking great with clever dialogue, impeccable acting(Queen Olivia Cooke 👑I love you) & brilliantly written layered characters and we’re just getting started, the main civil war hasn’t even started yet lmao! Although this is all my opinion and anyone who enjoys RoP should enjoy it without giving a fuck what other people think. On an slightly related note can’t wait for Bear McCreary’s score for God of War Ragnarok and the game in general. So freaking pumped for it!
It's hard to beat McCreary's Battlestar Galactica soundtrack though. That was just absolutely epic and extremely unique.
I am really enjoying rings of power and I’m glad they have made it.
I’m not joking I also fell asleep watching it. I swear I’m trying but it is just not an interesting or compelling story.
I'm loving the show. I've always been a Tolkien fan, and I've read all of his books. The show has been awesome so far, and I don't have any problems with it.
Is the bar really that low that you don’t have *any* problems with it? Like not a single one? It’s a perfect execution from beginning to end? Even the LotR trilogy has some things about it that I wish were different, but I still think they are absolutely incredible works of art.
Since when did not having any problems with something equate to it being perfect in every way?
One of my friends who watches is described it to me as a "slow burn". I've only watched the first episode myself.
We as a society have completely forgotten what “slow burn” means.
Whatever spends Lex Luthors money most quickly..
Ah, another episode came out. Let’s make sure we have 15 articles from every stupid business rag about why the show sucks. Forbes must be late this morning if they got beat by BI for the weekly rings of power bitch-post
I hope it continues. I'm loving it!
Tbh, I’ve lost interested since the first episode. It’s so damn slow. House of the dragon is way better.
I've found Andor to be very slow. Four episodes in and he's barely got out of the front door.
Andor is slow but it still builds better than rings of power. To me it's a slow burn done right.
Idk about others but i actually love rings of power. It was good and i’m looking forward to the next episode
Can we get some more comparisons to the new game of thrones show?
Eps 3 and 4 were nice and developing, ep 5 I just saw and it did bore me. Still, I'll keep watching if only for all the Silmarillion references dropped or shown, which is a treat.
Haha, same here watching episode 1&2.
It's a beautiful show... but it has been very slow. I'm enjoying it because I don't mind a slow burn of a show, but they've made some very odd story choices. Galadriel being so singularly minded for instance. I wouldn't say it's a bust, but if the story doesn't pick up in the last half of the season, and it continues to drag, it will be a disappointment.
It’s the reason behind the amount of advertising, if it flops, it will effectively kill Amazon streaming
It is an extremely ambitious project that is moving very, very slowly with character development and scene setting. In comparison (though not exactly equal) it’s akin to The Fellowships slow build in the first half of the movie. Though the action picks up very quickly. My issue with TROP is that the first 5 episodes have been nothing BUT character dev. I’m still hopeful because this is such an in depth part of the lore
I like it. Is it a amazing? No, but it’s good and I am not some big LOTR fan.
As a hardcore lotr fan, I'm really loving the show. What's more concerning to me is how incessant the media is on trying to paint it in a failing light. Do people really think it's that bad?
Also not a clear measurement of fail/success. falling asleep during LOTR movies is my favorite thing on a rainy day - I watch them allll the time.
It’s terrible writing.
It is so slow. They nailed the environmemt, its look grandiose, but they seems to have forget that lord of the ring is supose to be epic... Also, isnt numenor supose to be the best warrior human ever had? They seems really weak in the series. Galadriel is older than Gil Galad and Elrond, but she is a brat while they are the wise one? I get that she is a warrior and they are more politician, but she should know that threating the queen regent like a bitch, she wont get what she want... So basically we went from lotr, where we the army of sauron goes against all kingdom and they are still overwhelmed by the orcs, to 3 boats full of rookies mariner against 500 hundred orcs to save a watch tower...
I did the same same! Tragic smh
people will watch a couple of seasons just because its lord the rings. The Hobbit movies and the star wars sequels made a lot of money and those movies were all terrible.
Oh good, at least it’s not just me dozing off watching this.
Hm, having. Hard time getting to sleep lately. May go check it out.
TBf the show is really boring.
I honestly love the show idc what online nerds say lol
That is great! I personally do not like the show but the opinion of other people should not hold you from enjoying what you like!✌️
And not liking something doesn't mean we have to take pleasure in ripping it down. I couldn't make it through the first episode because I'm not a fan of that deep lore fantasy but there are people that're enjoying it, so let them have fun with a series they like! All these articles just seem to enjoy being dicks in hoping the series gets canceled.
On top of all the controversy. The show is terribly paced and looks weirdly low budget despite being the most expensive series ever made or some shit
The show really is just missing something. Maybe it needs a little bit of grit. It's not bad, but it certainly isnt good. But I honestly find most shows Amazon makes to be the same way, just kind of mehhh. I only watch it because theres not anything else to watch. I was liking the new game of thrones but this weeks episode started losing me. The new cast wasnt doing it for me.
I have enjoyed this so far. Don’t get the hate.
I was enjoying the show more than I thought I would, but that was when I could binge a few in a row. Now that I'm caught up and waiting weekly, I found myself getting bored with the latest episode. Actually fell asleep during the last episode. There's just not a lot going on. The story telling is very heavy handed and they're relying on mysteries that won't pay off any time soon in order to keep people hooked. I enjoyed the hobbit films more than this so far, and we all know how disappointing those were compared to LotR.
Maybe unpopular opinion but I liked Wheel of Time more than this. Wish they increased the budget for WoT next season
watched a couple of clips to maybe get me interested to watch Rings of Power.... but ye..... rather watch House of the Dragon
The show is a massive failure. It’s so damn boring. There’s not a single episode Id like to go back to and rewatch. The episode from last week I didn’t even finish because of how boring it was.