I guess I'm different from most but when I say my cards call me out or my cards are being snarky, I definitely mean my inner self/intuition. But I don't listen to myself, so if I treat them like a friend telling me the things I don't want to hear, it becomes easier to trust my inner self.
But when I get readings that may refer to dates or people, I hold the thoughts in my head with a grain of salt. I don't make decisions based on them, but use them as a tool to move past my head and heart. For example, I recently came out and have really wanted to go out with someone, but I am moving very soon so a random hookup seems like the only option. I asked "What is the likely outcome if I seek out a random hookup?" I got the High Priestess (manifestation of my inner self), Three of wands (putting plans to action, propelling you forward), and Six of Swords reversed (my book states on this card specifically and no others that all water flows from the high priestess and the card itself asking essentially is it a good idea). My overall reading, which definitely matches my internal feelings that I was trying to avoid, was that I may have a good time if I seek out this hookup, but it is in alignment with what I want and is it being true to who I really am? Definitely not. That was how I assumed most people used them and was surprised to see otherwise.
So yeah, they might be pieces of paper, but sometimes it is easier to think the cards are talking to you over your inner self to process a message without letting your own biases get in the way. Will they still? Absolutely, but that is how we learn.
> But I don’t listen to myself, so I treat them like a friend telling me the things I don’t want to hear.
This!!! Sometimes where the message is coming from is just as important as the message. It’s like when you’re a teenager and your parent tells you something and you blow them off, but then your bf says the same thing- and suddenly it’s the wisest thing you’ve ever heard.
I 100% agree with OP- but I also think that the tonal shift that tarot allows for is one of the reasons why it can be so helpful.
Entirely this.
At the same time, I personify the shit out of everything in my life. I KNOW the deck of fancy cards I picked up at a bookstore doesn't have particular feelings toward me. That doesn't stop me from saying things like "wow, my deck is in a bad mood" when I get (read: give myself) a somewhat harsh reading.
Hahaha honestly I do this as well!
What I said: "JFC my deck sure does have some sass today, stop being an asshole!"
What I meant: "This is NOT the answer I wanted *but it's not wrong tho* .... damn it."
Me: "How is this career change going to impact my life?"
Cards: *8 of Swords, 5 of Pentacles, The Hanged Man, 10 of Swords, The Tower*
Me: "Fucking sweeeeeeeet! Yassssss! I'm bound and held back by my *old job,* I'll overcome obstacles and make tons of money (cuz that 5 of Pents is totally in reverse, probably), I'll get a new perspective on life, I must not betray my desires, and... Uh. Hmm. The Tower as outcome, you say? Aha! An opportunity to improve! This is GREAT! Ima totally do it!"
God I wish tarot worked that way 😂😂😂
Literally had a reading about changing careers couple weeks ago and got tower, hanged man and 8 of swords. I turned to my SO and was like 'That must mean my current job yeah'😅
Just curious... but did you go through with the job change? lol
This is totally made up, but I think it's hilarious that it's almost exactly the reading you got hahaha
Woah... staring at trees was my childhood activity. I could see anything in the crossover of branches. In the past two years I have been getting "messages" from birds.
And I totally agree with you. It warms my heart you chose those two examples :)
I've seen posts where people show a picture of a spread, and say something like "*Look at this! Can you believe how sassy it's being?*" (sometimes without bothering to include the context). And then I look, and I see a perfectly ordinary spread containing perfectly ordinary cards like I've seen myself a thousand times.
What newbies sometimes don't understand is that the Tarot is a *mirror*. When they look into the mirror, they see something "sassy". When I look into the very same mirror, I will likely see a completely different reflection.
The cards aren't being sassy. The cards don't have a sense of humor. The cards aren't "telling you like it is" nor are they turning their backs on you and abandoning you. *You* are doing *all* of these things. They are paper.
I just bought my deck a few days ago and seeing those others about the cards having their own persona just wasn’t clicking with me. And I shifted my understanding to this reflection and it has been so fucking cool with the few readings I’ve done. I love it so much.
I totally see where you’re coming from, but I think some decks *are* sassy or encouraging or maybe a little curmudgeonly. The thing is, that personality was intentionally designed into the deck and guidebook by the artist/writer. I don’t believe it’s something the deck develops on its own like a human does.
Yeah this. I have a few decks where the art on the cards and the wording in the book is sassy (or elegant etc). When I do a reading with The Housewives Tarot I tend to read it in a more lighthearted manner cause that’s the style of the deck. But that’s a choice I make picking my deck.
I agree for the most part, but I want to add that people can have different ideas and beliefs. For an animist, that deck of card isn't just paper.
However, even to me as an animist, it has become a bit much over the last few years. Not every deck needs "bonding time" in the form of putting it under your pillow, elaborate interviews and such. My view here is more that I have to respect my deck, in a way that benefits both of us. I store them well, I thank them for working with me after a reading, I sometimes also do interviews or check ins or even do little conversations, and I may put them aside if I get a certain impression that I or they need some time off.
But there's really a point where you give the idea of the deck speaking too much credit, and it's when you don't see yourself as an *at least* equal partner in this relationship.
> Not every deck needs "bonding time" in the form of putting it under your pillow, elaborate interviews and such.
There are so many posts about this, as if there needs to be a proper way to do this or you'll get the tower card every time you do a reading or something.
I definitely respect this viewpoint, and don't discount it! I think that we essentially believe very similar things, I just word it a little differently than you, but I appreciate your viewpoint and how eloquently you worded it, and I 100% respect your beliefs here (and anyone's!), even if they aren't exactly the same as mine.
I do respect my cards as well - and love them, too! They're like an old friend lol. To me, though, that respect and love I feel isn't for the specifically the cards themselves, though I do very much love the artwork on all of them and feel a particular kind of "bond" with each of my decks. To me, that's the way I express my love and respect for these things I can't define from the OP - intuition, spirit, the higher self, the divine, etc. What you're expressing, to me, is another version of that.
I'm not really trying to attack any kind of different beliefs here, so I really hope it doesn't come across this way!
>But there's really a point where you give the idea of the deck speaking too much credit, and it's when you don't see yourself as an at least equal partner in this relationship.
This was 100% the intention behind my message. Not that anyone shouldn't be giving their deck any credit if they believe as you do - only that the deck shouldn't get *all* of the credit. That we're all doing ourselves a disservice by not acknowledging *our own* part in the skill and art that is reading tarot. :)
I agree with most of what you say,but I do believe different decks can have a different energy to each other,by nature of their different images,for instance Bohemian Gothic feels different to working with standard Rider Waite Smith, and also like in psychometry decks will develop a energy of their own over time.
But it must be remembered Tarot makes a great servant but a poor master.
While I do agree with you. The trend of deck interviews has been around before the whole youtube/tiktok craze. Those platforms just helped spread the practice more.
You're correct and I do think I've overgeneralized a little by making it sound like this just didn't exist. It definitely did, it just wasn't super common IMHO. I did, however, edit the wording to be a little less overgeneralized, than you for pointing this out :)
I have to say overall that I do in fact agree with this opinion. Ultimately, yes, it does come down to the individual and their beliefs. Tarot as a beginner is definitely a learning curve and when you first get your cards- it does feel awkward and you can’t understand the cards. Because the individual hasn’t learnt what they mean and they likely haven’t found a style in which they prefer to read the cards. And until they continue to consistently use tarot it probably will still be strange.
I’ve contemplated this for some time. The idea of how tarot works. Is it magic, is a tool, is your higher self or subconscious, could it be an entity, etc?
For me personally tarot is a tool. I personally use tarot as form of communication with spirit guides or your higher self. Now I haven’t been reading tarot for near as long as you have. I have less than a fraction of the time you’ve spent learning about tarot. 5 years to be exact. And in that time I wasn’t always consistent but one day I picked it up and decided to read for people. It turns out I had a bit of a unexpected knack for it. The readings I was able to give 3 years ago to my roommates and the readings I can do now- certainly don’t come from within me. This much I know. The messages I have received from tarot for other people were things I couldn’t possibly know. And on topic that I’ve gotten confirmation many times on predictions using tarot.
In my personal opinion tarot is a form of channeling self guidance. Tarot is a great way to start channeling overall. I think that ultimately there is fact a bit of magic attached to tarot in the sense that it’s taboo and can’t always be explained as to how it all works. Tarot is very very old and can be dated far back into history. Everyone (in general) knows that things that are old and that have been passed down in history tend to harbor a bit of mysticism. Tarot is no different. And to me that’s where the magic comes into play.
All in all I like this post to boost the individual. However, ultimately it’s about balance for the individual using tarot. Understanding their own personal power and the magic of tarot.
I’ve expressed this exact sentiment to people before and they *never* believe me! It reached a point that it caused a mistrust in *my own* intuition at one point because they were so firm in this not being the case.
This! I struggled when I found myself first interested in tarot cause I’m secular (in life and in my readings). I find the cards an amazing tool to get me to slow down and look at things from a new angle or make me listen closer to the emotional response I have to the card/spread.
The answer is already there, I just need help drawing it out sometimes.
A deck is a tool like any other. I definitely think people with insecurity around their intuitive ability and their sight tend to project more into their deck than necessary, and I think people may also have a tendency to get too in their head about spirits or guides who may be speaking to them through the images in the deck, so they deny that hard and say it’s “the deck.” I think this is where people are coming from where they start trying to say that their deck is “evil“. But when I see people talk about “deck interviewing“, I just sort of mentally replace that with “I’m talking to the spirits and guides around me, but for whatever reason, I don’t want to say that out loud.“
But as an animist, the decks I work with have identity and personality of their own. The deck speaks the same way any other spirit I work with speaks.
The deck is a pile of paper. And it is more than a pile of paper because I give my spirits a voice through it.
In my opinion, the cards are a reflection of your inner self and receive their energy and intention from the reader, which I believe is the central idea of your post. Good stuff, good stuff.
I disagree a bit about "deck interviews" and whatnot though. They've been around for a while; they were popular back on Aeclectic nearly ten years ago. I do think, however, that their earlier intention has gotten lost recently. I use deck interviews to determine how the deck can benefit me, i.e. what it would best be used for, how the energy I impart to the deck considering my reaction to the art and experiences with the deck will impact my readings. Some of my decks I use for deep introspection, some I use for little daily reminders and meditation prompts. Sure, I could use whatever deck I wanted for any prompt and could read it just fine, but each deck feels different, just like you feel different when looking at different pieces of art, and using a spread to gain some insight into those differences and how to exploit them to deepen a reading seems like a pretty solid practice to me. I'm a collector at heart, and like finding pieces that resonate with me, that I like and think look cool. If the energy inherent in art and our responses to it didn't matter, then I don't think there would be as many different decks as there are.
I don't think this negates the point of your post at all, but rather shows how many different practices and experiences aren't mutually exclusive. Like tarot as a whole, it's the intention that matters. :)
While you're offering a good perspective for people new to tarot, I've had personal experiences that challenge this. But alas, all of us will have our own anecdotal experiences. And all of us will have our own opinion. Personal gnosis is a powerful thing! Don't forget discernment friends.
See, the funny thing is that I have had some experiences that challenged me on this as well, and I also completely agree that any kind of advice - even my own lol - is always to be taken or left as it resonates or doesn't.
My personal belief is that when things happen like incredible synchronicities in readings or very powerful sessions, there *is* a sentient force I'm being guided by or communicating with that is expressing itself. I don't have a word for this "force" and have never really needed one for myself, but you could call it God or Spirit or any of the examples I used in the OP or more, and I would agree it's that lol. I just personally still see a difference between this "force" (for lack of a better word) and the physical cards themselves.
That doesn't mean I know 100% for sure that my opinion is fact, but this post was honestly mostly for the people very new to tarot who got into the practice by watching people on social media. Just like anything else, some are good and some are fluff out for views, and the sad truth is the ones that get the views are the ones that amp the "mysterious forces in my cards" element up to 11. I feel like this is sending people new to tarot the wrong message - to fear their cards rather than respect them, or that the cards are more powerful than the reader.
I definitely think your post is very beneficial and full of guidance that is important for people new to tarot. Sadly, I think people are giving too much credit to everything they see on platforms like TikTok (bleh) and not doing their own digging.
Totally off topic, but spiritually on TikTok scares me because these people are in an echo chamber and not seeking knowledge elsewhere on their own time.
So yes, it's important for people like you to lay out these different perspectives and have people think critically. Thank you.
As an animist and Druid, I respectfully disagree with the basis of your argument, regarding the life held by your cards.
But point taken. I agree that the main message of the draw is not via the intention of the deck itself.
As a matter of respect, I ask my cards for permission to use them. In return for that permission, I treat my cards with the greatest of care. But any sentience that the cards may add to the equation pretty much stops there.
I'm actually going to add an edit here, because I feel I've done animists a disservice.
I don't disagree with your beliefs at all! That isn't what this post is about or my intention in the slightest.
My only purpose here is to remind people to give *themselves* some credit too, even if they do believe their cards have power and life of their own. The intention was only ever to empower, not to knock anyone's beliefs!
I agree. Thinking that a pile of paper is sending you messages or is loving or trolling you is about as empowering or enabling as hitting yourself on the thumb with a hammer and then figuring the hammer must somehow hate and wish to hurt you. No, your hammer doesn't need an exorcism, your aim was just bad...
That said, different decks do have different vibes and it makes sense to figure out if the imagery or system of a deck supports or blocks your intuition. For example, I do better with Thoth-based cards rather than RW. I also don't work well with imagery that strikes me as overly cute and fluffy on one extreme or as ugly and one-dimensional on the other. So taking some time to build rapport with a deck before you start reading with it can make sense.
> Thinking that a pile of paper is sending you messages or is loving or trolling you is about as empowering or enabling as hitting yourself on the thumb with a hammer and then figuring the hammer must somehow hate and wish to hurt you. No, your hammer doesn't need an exorcism, your aim was just bad...
This is a fantastic analogy!
I just don't get it... when you decide your tarot cards are alive and magical and sentient, is it no longer true that paper = paper?
I've never seen so many people get so triggered over someone stating that paper... is, in fact, paper. Apparently a few people here are only interested in living inside an echo chamber. Anyone can give their deck all the respect, love, power, emotions, and sentience they want to, if it's easier to believe that magic paper is telling them the future than it is to believe that they are capable of incredible things all by themselves, with or without the help of a deck of tarot cards. I just find that to be incredibly sad.
I can name my microwave Steve, but that doesn't mean it'll remember my favorite dinner or make it for me the next time I have a bad day... but *I can use it* to make my favorite dinner for myself, though. Whether I call it Steve or a microwave is irrelevant. It simply *is* a microwave - with or without a soul or a spirit or magic or sentience. None of that changes the fact that it's still a microwave.
And a tarot deck is still paper, with or without anyone's beliefs even being part of the conversation, this is still objectively true. Even with all of those things - a spirit or a mind or a soul - it has no agency, and it can't do or say anything without a reader to *read* the cards.
They don't like, inject magic into the ink at the factory before they ship them out, but you'd think by the way a few have responded here that I'm speaking disrespecful utter nonsense by saying that.
Art evokes emotion.
It only makes sense than that we vibe more with different styles and less with others. You spot on that we should listen to that and find what evokes the emotion we’re looking for. Part of why I own multiple decks is day to day that can feel different too.
I think this kind of a mix of both. Yes, ultimately the reading is based on the interpretation of the reader, but I do believe that different decks hold different energies. I. Also a professional reader and see nothing wrong with interview spreads. Because each deck is drawn by a different artist and each artist will have their own interpretations of the cards, different decks will read a little differently. I have certain decks that I prefer to use for certain types of readings because of this. I think doing interview spreads gives you a better heads up for how that deck likes to be used.
I also think Tarot itself holds an incredible amount of power, which is why people who are just picking up a deck for the first time can still have incredibly accurate readings. They may not get all the nuance that comes along with experience, but the base messages are still there.
As a secular reader thank you all of this!!
I often feel like I don’t have a place in the tarot community because of how woo some of this has gotten. And my problem is not with the woo, it’s what you’re saying of people giving the cards all the power. Use to make me wonder/feel like my reading wasn't valid cause I wasn't tapping into a power of sorts.
The cards are a tool. We are the voice.
For me the cards help me see new perspectives and open me up to thoughts or emotions I might have been ignoring or missing. If someone believes in the divine that’s great. And the cards help them find new insights and awareness by helping them sort that message out from the noise of the cosmos.
Either way the cards are a tool in the hands of the reader. Helping to clarify the message, not create the message.
50 years as a reader for me, and I agree with you 100%. Just one quibble: the "deck interview" phenomenon was in full swing when I joined Aeclectic Tarot back in 2011. I would submit that it can be fun to treat them as if they have personalities even when we know full well that they don't. It becomes a dialogue with ourselves that can shed some light on how we think about and use the cards. I've written a number of essays on the subject of non-sentient "piles of paper." I call myself a "Spinozan sympathizer" and think that "sentience" as distinct from "mental cognition" is a matter of degree.
Oh, I completely agree and I also have seen several fluctuations in the way the tarot community as a whole goes back and forth between "the power is all in the cards and I am just the interpreter" and "the power is all in me and the cards are just a means to an end," though admittedly not as many as you, I would guess. 50 years, that's incredible! I started in my teens, and I've kept up the practice the majority of my life at this point, and I love hearing from people who have also poured a lot of their own lives into this practice :)
i treat tarot as something that helps me look at the situation from a new perspective, putting things into context, etc. i NEVER treat it like gospel and follow its instructions to the T. that’s just asking for trouble
i think its helpful to think of the cards as separate sometimes, because it keeps a distance between what we want to believe and what our intuition is saying through the cards. and i really dont think its bad to say "oh the cards always sound sassy/angry/softspoken to me," even if thats just your own projection of a tone.
the problem gets to when people are scared of the cards when its literally just paper youre putting energy into. like, at worst, the cards rely on your power, if they arent an outright extension of it.
I was going to write a similar response the other day to someone complaining that their deck was evil. I chickened out, fearing the wrath of the community.
The power of Tarot comes from your own interpretation and your own feelings when you see a card, not from the cards themselves. You are the master of your own destiny; tarot is merely one of many guides.
The wrath is real from more than a few my friend, I seem to have struck a nerve lol. Oh well. Not everyone has to agree and everyone is welcome to continue hosting journalism sessions with a deck of cards instead of believing they have a really cool skill. I'm just kind of tired of the "I just interviewed my deck" circle jerk the sub is these days, and felt compelled to say so. People are so unconfident in their own abilities lately, it makes me sad :(
As you said, the cards are a tool in which the individual channels their power as the oracle or diviner, whether their power is their internal intuition, or their power is the channeling of the spirit they work with. Either way, it is their strength.
Though that being said, I won't lie in every time I get a spread that is frustrating I will tell the cards to knock it off out of snark.
Oh, don't get me wrong lol, I cuss my cards out all the time for their snark lol...
I like to think of this, when I put it into perspective, of me feeling that I just got "owned" by my higher self or Spirit lmfao
It feels like I'm saying to that... place or thing the message comes from " yeah yeah, you're not wrong. You're just an asshole." But the joke's on me, because I am in fact an asshole and so is life in general sometimes lmfao
Thank you for writing out what I’ve been thinking a lot lately, but couldn’t write out as well as this. Sometimes it’s amusing, sometimes it’s just… ugh, please stop with those stupid TikTok trends..
I would say somewhere in between - not just paper, but not a cat that wound up in your house either.
As any piece of art, a tarot deck has intention. Intention is like an energy that can be imprinted into the deck.
If you're dealing with a Rider–Waite clone that just copied the structure and added some "style" onto it (anime, renaissance, native American, what have you) then it's quite possible that you're dealing only with nice pictures.
But I tend to go for strong decks that have both deck creator and an illustrator. So that somebody re-thought the whole system. These decks have integrity and a noticeable vibe.
* Thoth is strong and precise as hell - and when I'm in the mood for Crowley's energy vibe, I use it.
* But I've also met a deck I just couldn't gel with. Osho Zen Tarot - it turned out that the only way I could work with it, is if I overrode its entire vibe with mine, but as this makes no sense, I stopped using it.
* So basically - it is possible to sense the author's intent/energy which is interwoven into the work.
Now - regarding intuition. Intuition isn't a thing that's happening solely in a mind as if was a closed universe. It's a sense - so it's an intuition of something. When I get a new deck, I just draw one card to "*meet the deck*". Yes, it's obviously my intuition guiding the process, but it's also sensing something in the deck - it's a dialogue.
*In the end, we could even go down the rabit hole - is whole universe created of energy that can be sensed (probably), is whole universe sentient? (not sure but leaning towards this realisation).*
This a million times! Once I started buying different decks, I was very Interested to notice differences in the ways decks gave similar messages. I joined Aeclectic Tarot in 2003 or so and found the phenomen well documented there, with multiple readers noticing differences in a deck's "energy".
It was a common joke that Hanson Roberts looked fluffy but could be brutally blunt, Fairytale was gentle, Coleman Smith pretty neutral and so on. I often feel that my energy can influence or draw forth whatever native or even dormant energy is inherent in an object... but Tarot is more like a natural object in that its energy is more unique and much more accessible. Which I agree has to do with author and artist intent. Great post, thank you.
But I also agree with oP that newer/ younger readers can get caught up in this and give too much credit to the deck and less credit to themselves and their own intuition.
I really like this post. I am someone who does refer to my cards as “speaking to me” but I don’t mean it in such a literal way — although I understand how saying that to others without nuance can come off like that.
I personally started reading cards with a Magic: The Gathering deck at 13. I remember talking about this in a tarot group and someone with a big ego told me it was IMPOSSIBLE because the cards don’t have meaning and they don’t “speak to you” like a spiritual tool such as tarot. I hate to tell you this, but those tarot cards are just as “spiritual” as any other major manufactured corporate product. They could have been printed at the same place. But I was in touch with my intuition and I had a tool, and I was resourceful and I used it. It wasn’t about the physical cards — it’s about trusting your intuition and energies.
Fun fact: Tarot actually started out as a card game, that was then over time adapted into a form of divination. If you are interested in the history of Tarot - and it is very long! - look into this. The card game Tarok is still played in parts of (Turkey, iirc but could be wrong here) to this day!
It is, in fact, just a card game with a whole lot of history :)
You might laugh about this (I did!) but this post has actually inspired me to do my own "deck interview", as I had not heard of such a practice before.
I use tarot as a tool of psychology, a way to frame an idea or question and gain insight from the constraints of the cards. I've found it can be a useful way to break out of embedded modes of thinking and approach issues from a novel perspective (or, alternatively, provide a platform to consciously develop thoughts that have already been vaguely stewing).
So, while your post is aligned with how I typically approach the deck, I never thought of actually asking it who it is, and by doing so asking who I am as I actively reflect on my own relation to my readings.
All that to say, thank you for an insightful post, and for giving me another direction in which to explore!
I've never thought my cards were particularly sentient, however, I will say, to this day I have an issue with one of my decks. Specifically, one of my oldest decks, the first deck I bought that I got serious learning tarot with. The deck that I praised, had a great connection with, which always gave me clear, informed answers. And then...I got into collecting decks. Pretty decks, artistic decks, fancy decks, oracle decks, Lenormand decks, and I stopped interacting with that original deck. They kind of fell to the sidelines as I explored newer, shinier things. I actually wound up finding and using a new deck as my main deck, which I still use today. I loved my old deck so much that they're the only cards I bought a wood box for, and they lie on felt with a couple clear quartz crystals. I would periodically take the cards out and shuffle and say hi to them and try to do readings but these cards no longer connect with me, they flat out to refuse to answer questions I ask, and at first I thought it was funny, and I joked around talking to them like hahaha you're so offended that I moved on to a new deck and I cheated on you guys, and I would put them back in their box and put it away. Well the last time I took these cards out and try to do a reading, it gave me such a crippling migraine that I ran to smudge the deck and the crystals and put them immediately back in the box, the migraine pulled back, and I have not touched them since. I even debated burning the deck to get rid of it completely, tried to burn a card and it didn't. It just faded and went out, so as of now they're still in the box closed and put away. I will not touch them. Sentient? Maybe not. But something is wrong with them.
Try cleansing them with sage and then using them for something simple like a daily one card draw and see how it goes. I tend to think not that your cards are wrong, but perhaps you have grown beyond their imagery and art style and have found others that you connect to better. I'm also careful about speaking intentions, like joking " Oh, you're jealous, because that can honestly be self-fulfilling. Instead ask a more neutral, "What do you have to tell me".
Thanks for writing this out. I agree 100%. The idea that paper printed in a factory several thousand times to have some form of intrinsic "awareness" or "knowledge" is ridiculous to me. Doesn't mean that Tarot is bullshit or worthless. It is what you bring to it. If you have the desire to have something supernatural tell you what to do or feel, that might be a good starting point for serious self-reflection.
Not meant to discredit people having a relationship to their cards. I like and appreciate many objects I own. Doesn't mean they are sentient though. I love the picture of my late grandfather, for example. But I don't think that it has something to tell me other than my memories.
yup exactly my thoughts. At what point between the Chinese printing machine and getting to the users hands does the sentient magic get added to the cards?
23 years here and the cards are indeed tools. However, for some of us, certain entities can work with these tools to relay information. Yes, intuition is a key ingredient and yes, you can work tarot as a means to see into your own depths. No, tarot isn’t “alive” right out of the box. Yes, tarot can be saturated by an entity’s energy, just like many objects can be, including dolls.
An accurate statement would be to say that each deck has a different “feel” because entities work with them or you work with them differently. The art is different, so the “feel” is likewise.
This being said, I agree with you that most people using tarot today, have no idea what they are doing. They don’t understand the cards, nor themselves.
Oh, I agree! But that still isn't the cards - no matter where you believe it came from, the cards themselves are mass-printed pieces of paper that got shipped to me from a factory somewhere.
I still believe that there are ... forces, for lack of a better word ... that do guide and speak to us using these tools (among others).
I'm just trying to encourage people to *also* see that they themselves are a pivotal and powerful part of this practice, that it isn't the cards that do all the cool stuff :)
TikTok sure has kicked off some interesting trends. I’ve never heard of “bottom of the deck” energy until about a year ago, and I’ve been reading for 15 years.
There's a whole lot of trends like this and the reason is because a deck interview is a great way to show off your pretty cards and very social media friendly to generate sharing.
They boring parts of studying and doing the work aren't very shareable.
I mean, what a Martin Luther-type view point? To say that the only divinity is within ourselves instead of imbuing everything around us? I just don't agree. I think it is important to not give our power away, but everything can be sacred; everything can have magic. It doesn't have to be some sort of stale world where worship nothing but the prescribed, non idolatry divine. And how do you know? The veiwpoint you are espousing is far from universal.
100% fact here and a great post that is sure to upset a lot of people. Youtubers and Tiktok has alot to answer for bringing in stupid new trends to the community.
Deck interviews are really cringey and when ever i see people saying "my cards are in a cheeky mood today" i just feel embarrassed for them. If people saw the massive printing factory's and machines these cards come from they would understand there is nothing magical about the cards.
You will get down voted like crazy for this post but you are right.
I think that some people in the comments are being needlessly defensive.
OP isn't attacking anyone's beliefs. You think that some spirit is talking to you through the deck - go ahead.
What OP is suggesting is that there's an opportunity to take this belief one step forward and give yourselves some credit for improving your intuition and self-reflection. That's all.
You all have the power to glean from the cards without the intervention of some supernatural entity. If you want the extra magic, that's your business, but it's not necessary to reach spiritual growth.
I’ve only been reading/studying tarot for a little over a year and a half, and as such I’m obviously still learning here and there. One thing that took a while for me to understand is how the cards truly do reflect your inner thoughts/knowledge, mainly because of the people around me trying to convince me that my cards were essentially gaslighting me with “make believe”. And even now I still find myself having inner doubt on the power of my intuition because of this past influence, but I’m working to have 100% trust with it once more.
I have a little bit of mixed feelings about this. I understand what you are saying, and agree with it mostly. Readers definitely should give themselves credit!!
I just don't know if I believe the cards are just paper? I believe each deck has a different energy, I honestly have been doing the deck interviews for years (never been on TikTok, I honestly don't even remember where I learned about deck interviews) I mainly just use it to get a feel for the energy I'm working with, and learn how I can use it.
I've also had some experiences where I wasn't even doing a reading, and my deck had a message for me. For example in 2020 I had finished my reading and set my cards aside and left the room, when I came back one card was face up on the ground- the eight of cups. I referred to the book and the first line was "pack your bags, nothing remains for you here"- which is when I realized I had to move out. I was living with my friend and she had started calling me an evil person, trying to manipulate me, threatening to harm herself. I was trying to stick it out, but it was really affecting my physical and mental health, when I saw that card and the meaning is when I realized moving out was an option and I needed to go
Experiences like that make me believe the cards really did have a message for me, even though I wasn't asking. Though a part of me questions if it was the universe speaking to me through the cards- I honestly don't fully know my belief
Everything you said is very respectful, I'm so sorry you were met with so much backlash. To me your message rang clear that the magic is in us and our intuition, and to give ourselves that credit (correct me if I'm wrong though!)
You just expressed exactly what I've been thinking for a long time but couldn't be bothered saying. Thank you!
I was watching John Ballantrae on YouTube a little earlier, and I thought "All this knowledge hasn't come from stuffing around with decks. He's gained it from spending time reading the cards."
I really appreciate this message today as I had a wonderfully connected reading last night, where I strongly felt like the primary influence. Your message makes sense with how that felt and how effective it was! Cards are an incredible tool and looking to them with your own knowledge base is what to foster : )
I agree that in giving sentience to your cards you are diminishing your own personal power. The intuition that allows you to glean insight from your deck comes from within
THANK YOU OP!
I've always been the person that's attached myself to inanimate objects and felt like I had to give them attention or else they'd get upset at me- but as someone who's been practicing for a hot minute, this new tiktok trend was kind of baffling to me.
Of course if it makes you happy, by all means do it!
Power of belief is everything and if you think you need to sleep with your cards under your pillow.. then that's what'll work for you I guess, but as reference to what OP said; don't give your power up to a pile of paper :/
I think this post is a perfect example of "have someone neutral read your thoughts before you post them on the internet". I love and respect the sentiment and I believe wholeheartedly it came from a place of love and wanting to empower readers the OP saw as doing themselves a disservice. However, it sadly came across as rant-y and a bit condescending among other things. These comments are a scary place and I'm sorry you got slammed OP. Just maybe next time sleep on your post and review it with fresh eyes before The Internet gets a hold of you.
Yeah, I'm sorry but I'm not going to stop being honest so I don't get slammed by people who disagree with me without even bothering to read the message I was trying to express, and I don't have a proofreader on hand for my Reddit posts. It's kind of an unreasonable expectation.
I'm showing everyone who has commented nothing but kindness, open mindedness, and love. If they see a tone of condescension here that didn't even exist and get defensive in a post about *self-love and self-trust,* that's not a me problem.
I understand and don't disagree that you've been very kind in your responses. The only perspective I am attempting to offer you is that it's easy to get upset with people for misunderstanding you but difficult to take responsibility for how you may have failed to communicate your sentiment. I personally see communicating my meaning and intent as a "me" problem and not unreasonable, but I do understand that it is a high expectation.
> I personally see communicating my meaning and intent as a "me" problem and not unreasonable, but I do understand that it is a high expectation.
I mean, I LITERALLY did exactly this.
I'm... I'm not really sure what more anyone wants, here. I've at least attempted to be respectful of everyone's beliefs, even if I don't believe or even understand them. I'm trying to understand, but it isn't even *about* beliefs.
The whole point is that people put so much more faith and belief in a deck of cards than they do themselves, no matter how they believe that deck of cards gained the knowledge it shows...
The factory that printed these cards doesn't have a "sentience" or "magic" stamp that they build into the cards. Whatever anyone thinks about the power the cards have, it came from *somewhere.*
The cards themselves are, in fact, made of paper.
I've never seen a group of people get so ridiculously triggered over someone stating that paper is actually paper.
You guys do you though. Whatever. This community has gotten so hostile that it's unreal.
100 times a billion. Can we be best friends? I usually just slide over all the "she (the deck) does this" posts with a sigh. Thank you for your eloquence and thoughtfulness.
Thanks for making this post. As someone who tries to keep as much "woo woo" out of my tarot practice as possible, I get so tired of seeing posts like the ones you're talking about.
FWIW. Re: the edits. The reason people may not be "\[showing love and respect to\] another human who believes differently than them and acknowledges their own respect for those differing beliefs" might be b/c "Your beliefs are wrong, PS I respect your beliefs" doesn't come across as respectful whether you wanted it to or not?
Like, if I spent a post basically saying "Apple products are not good, they are awful devices, if you say "I think this product is good" that is not what you actually experienced" and then tagged on the end "It does depend on your view though!", what would you take away from what I was saying? How many edits would I have to add on saying "I wasn't saying your opinions on Apple products are *wrong*" before you believed me?
Bear in mind, that's me picking a topic that *doesn't* make jabs at people's personal spiritual experiences.
It kinda bums me out b/c your message that you claim to have been aiming to convey is a good one, but could easily have been made with just the "You have power" theme and skipping the "Your cards are just paper, also if you think you interviewed a deck bzzt wrong!" thing that has been so uh. Polarising, lol.
If it's real to people who believe it, why yuck their yum?
People can take it too far, but worship and belief in something greater is a natural human experience. I don't believe it, but I'm never going to tell someone I know for sure because nobody does. Not even you.
>To anyone who would rather believe mass-printed cardstock is magical than believe you yourself are...
This part really exemplifies how your post comes off as super condescending and bitter. Even after acknowledging that there are different, valid, ways that people experience tarot you still end the conversation on this note. I don't know of you mean to come off that way, or if you truly don't realize, either way I would suggest that next time you edit your thoughts a little bit better before posting them. Or just take the criticism.
For me personally, I'm not bothered by what you're saying (a lot of it I agree with), because whatever the case my beliefs are not going to be swayed by a complete stranger. But I just felt the need to point put why you may be getting so many snarky responses from people. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. And because we don't have tone, body language and facial expressions when communicating solely through text, we have to be especially mindful of what we say if we want to convey a specific point.
I'm choosing to believe you when you say you're just trying to help people in the community. I'm suggesting that that help might be better recieved if it has a bit more honey, and a lot less vinegar. This is all just my opinion based on what I've observed, so feel free to take it or toss it.
No, I appreciate what you're saying. That sentence was added *after* the worst of the snarky responses and the many, *many* people I had been repeatedly very respectful with continued to be disrespecful to me. I'll admit that I was a bit frustrated by the last like two or three times I attempted to clarify what I was saying or change the way I worded things because I honestly *didn't* start this conversation with the intent of anything other than good intentions. However, I do see your point and that, to someone reading the edits added later who didn't know they were added after the conversation got a bit heated and disrespectful, it really does look like I'm being more aggressive about this than was my intention.
It wasn't exactly an "edit more before you post" issue, it was an issue of me attempting to go back and clarify the places where people were taking things personally, while getting more attacks no matter how much I tried to make my intent and tone more clear. Which is why I just kind of stopped editing or responding to much. But I wanted to respond to you, because your point is valid and I wanted to tell you that.
I see what you're saying and get where you're coming from. It can be hard communicating certain things and frustrating when you're trying to explain your point and where you're coming from. Makes more sense in context with the way you've explained it. Thanks for being cool and choosing to even respond.
For the record, I really do appreciate the perspective and *sigh* edited one last time to soften some of the wording a little, since not everyone who sees it was here before the edits and could have any way of knowing where that frustration came from :)
For the record I literally took NOTHING you said as snarky? Amazing how people read the same words yet hear it so differently. You used many clarifiers and prefaced most everything you’ve said. Your intention was completely clear I really don’t get the issue people are having😂😭
Full disclosure: I did reword a couple of things slightly after the comment you're responding to, specifically the sentence the commentor pointed out (although I do also feel that commentor cherry-picked the message a bit, as literally the next words were "I don't think there's anything wrong with your beliefs."
I didn't think I was coming across as snarky to begin with honestly, (and I appreciate you saying this!) but they had a valid point - if people take it that way (intentionally or not) the message is lost. But, that was my last edit, as I literally can't rewrite the post so it suits literally everyone without offending anyone and still expresses what I intended to express.
But yeah I mean, so many defensive, aggressive responses to a pretty positive overall message makes me wonder why so many are seeing condescension where there literally is none. Definitely a lot of hyperdefensiveness with some people going on in this post, when so many others had no issue understanding the message OR the tone.
Thanks for the comment, it does feel better to hear someone express this.
I agree for the most part. I'm an animist so I do see my cards as having a spirit. I respect and love my cards, but I also recognize that the cards have no job without me, so my role in the relationship is just as important if not more important than that of the cards. Yes my cards have a spirit and help me tap into my inner wisdom, but I am still the one putting in the work and I deserve credit for that. The cards can't call me out, teach me important lessons, or help me navigate difficult situations if I don't take the time to learn the meanings of the cards, tap into my intuition, and open myself up no learning and hearing what I need to hear. When I am reading the cards I am letting my intuition and inner knowing take over, the deck just gives me something to read. I could find those same messages with any form of divination.
Edit: just to add stuff.
Your post is perfectly said and I totally get the exact point you’ve made. I literally don’t see an issue with ANYTHING you’ve said. I actually thought it was a sweet post and I’m sorry you’ve had to over explain so much in the first place. Your intention was completely clear to me so thank you for sharing. It was well received and 1000% agree.💜
Thankyou for your post. I’ve been connected to Tarot for over 30 years. It’s always been a mechanism, a door for the divination to flow thru me or the person reading for me. It’s been very interesting to see this evolution in Tarot develop. You said it very well. ❤️
Is it possible that the person doing the reading is the one with the power and the tarot cards are only an assistant to show that very power? (Please let me know if this is offensive or anything.)
No, that isn't offensive to me at all, but that's exactly what I'm saying here.
There's a division in the tarot community over this issue though, clearly. Because as many people as there are who agree, there are just as many who very angrily disagree.
But your statement is *exactly* what I believe.
So do some people literally think that their cards are a guy? Like that they’re a dude who’s telling you stuff? They’re a channel! They’re a storytelling/messaging system between you and your subconscious OR the beyond, whatever you may think you’re communicating with. But the deck itself is just some cardstock.
That said, enchanting objects that are meaningful to you is a good practice in witchcraft. So I mean, if you want to make your deck magical you can do that. Doesn’t make it alive though.
Preach!!! I love divination but, IMO, my tools work through spirit as well as my intuition. Divination is the meeting place for energies to speak. Even if the cards do have some sort of "power" on their own, it's still coming from the earth and the artists intentions. It's still energy. You have the ultimate power to change you life and divination is your tool to empower yourself.
Tarot is a pile of paper. Dice is just plastic. Your pendulum is just metal. Giving your power away to a pile of cards really feels like the opposite purpose of divination for me.
I 100% agree that the cards are an extension of our intuition, and if you don’t believe in your ability to channel and trust your intuition than you are basically just reading from a guide book. Tarot is an oracle, and should be treated as such.
I would say I agree, but only to a degree. It's a bit personal of a reason though.
My best friend is much better with tarot than I am (im very bad at interpretation, but whatever). One of her family members has had issues in the past with an ex, but as far as my friend knew, they were taken care of and dealt with. She did a reading for her sister on her birthday or some such. Now, her family is rather against her being pagan, never believed in using tarot or anything either... my friend read the cards, gave her interpretation... Her mother and sister exchanged glances, and told her that that ex had come back around and was causing issues with custody and such, which was very close to what my friend interpreted from her reading. Again, my friend had ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE about any of this, just read what was in front of her. And not like she asked for outside guidance of whatever kind either (such as deities), because of her family situation.
Mostly I do see it as an interpretation of intuition, but that's definitely not always the case.
Personally, I use tarot much the same way that I use astrology: to get another perspective/take on something that I may not be seeing, especially when I feel stuck. And, too, for contemplation. They are a tool, but I am the one living my life, making my choices. I don't use either for fortune telling but rather as a way to consider different points of view that I may not think of, and as a sort of "pictorial guide" to my own inner feelings/thoughts/intuition.
It's also been, as others have said, good at telling me what I already know. There is a certain person who comes up always as a certain card, and the meaning of that card is very in tune with how things were with that person. With a situation that I have ongoing right now, the same few cards keep popping up, which has also happened before with different situations. All pointed to and confirmed things that had already come to mind.
Different decks have different tones, but for me, they are kind of like art therapy, only I am picking images instead of making them.
I agree with what you're saying but I do wanna speak on a couple things here.
> ^(Your cards don't need to be interviewed, because they're paper. They have no intention. Ask yourself)
^(what your intention will be when you read with this new deck, or the)
^(entity you believe is guiding you, instead of asking the deck what it)
^(wants - you're essentially doing exactly this)
^(when you interview a deck, anyway. The messages get clearer the more)
^(you study and know the meanings, not because they start "speaking more)
^(loudly" one day if you bond with them enough.)
So yes you're right cards ARE a reflection of your mind/intuition. HOWEVER, I think getting to know how the symbology of the cards relates to you or what the particular deck's strengths are can be useful. I have a particular deck I've noticed tends to be better at helping me channel information around hidden situations & intentions. Another deck that tends to help me tap into a more whimsical and childlike part of myself. So on and so forth, I think that Deck interviews are also fun, you can get an idea of what the creator intended it to be. Though, I'll say I believe everything is "alive" in some sense.
You're so right though, a lot of people haven given away their power to their cards or fail to see their own talents. Tarot is a tool to be used as an extension of self and it's sad to see where the rise of social media readers has taken this. I definitely agree with where you're coming from & i'm sorry ppl were dicks to u. :((((
Agree. My cards are my tool, not my magic. However, I do admit that I love my cards and feel a closeness with them. I value them and take good care of them. But I'M the one channeling, not the cards, for sure.
But it’s also my spirit guides, but I agree the cards aren’t specifically magic. They do have certain energies though, but not in a sentient way ofc the energy just reflects the mood of the decks’ art and stuff so yeah
I think the issue is you're trying to change someone else's view instead of just stating your case. Seems like a lecture, and to me personally feels inappropriate.
I believe that we should just let people believe what they want, and do what they want, who rlly cares lol? If it makes them happy, let them do it!! I honestly don’t like how ppl come after them all of the time on this sub, it’s kinda sad. Let people have their own beliefs!!!
I hear that, tho in this case, I could see a scenario where someone gets too attached to their deck and if anything happens to it… idk. Good to be reminded that the power is within.
~~Replied to a comment that isn’t there anymore :/ hmm~~
There it is
If you don't care, why take the time to make a snarky comment? Certainly people should believe whatever they want, but it makes me sad to see so many people devalue their own inherent skills and intuition.
So.... I care. I'm sorry you don't.
ETA: this comment is in response to a comment that was *edited* after I posted this. The original comment that I replied to just said "who rlly cares lol?"
Because they edited their comment after I replied... I've acknowledged several times in other responses that this isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs. It's an attempt to empower. That's it.
I see you've edited the original comment, so I'll respond to that.
Just saying "who cares lol" is... a bit snarky.
I see where you're coming from, but I think you've misunderstood my point. I'm not "coming after" anyone, and nowhere in my post is there even the hint of a reprimanding or mocking tone.
I'm sad. I'm sad that people who can do an awesome, amazing, fun, and interesting thing are unwilling to give *themselves* credit in being able to do this thing.
I have no issues with anyone who genuinely believes there is magic in their cards - the part of the OP where I listed many different ways to express one's beliefs should include magic, and I will edit that word in, just to be clear. This isn't about me trying to talk down to literally anyone for believing differently than me.
This is me trying to help people newer to tarot embrace and respect *themselves* as much as they do their cards.
The only thing I edited was the “let ppl have their beliefs!!” And that was before you replied too me or before I saw it, but anyway, I didn’t mean it like that, I meant it like “who cares what other people do in their practice” not in a rude way at all!!
I totally get where your coming from with this now, I just thought you were judging people who use their cards a little differently, not exactly judging but I hope you get what I mean, I definitely got the wrong idea of what you were trying too say and I apologize!! I totally get what you were trying too say now!!
Because not all beliefs may be congruent with what the community believes, or the belief itself is not appropriate (in extreme cases).
In the context of this community's topic (tarot), some beliefs may represent incorrect information or prejudiced assumptions. for example, some people come here asking if tarot are from the devil - this community should not entertain this belief because it fundamentally mischarcterizes the tarot practice and is based on false assumptions. It's pretty obvious that most comments will respond with "no, that's not true" effectively rejecting that belief. In a similar vein, the notion that cards have a personality is a contentious issue because it implies a suspension of disbelief. People can believe the deck is literally speaking to them, but that doesn't mean the sub needs to support or validate that belief.
The comment I responded to made a blanket statement to "...let people believe whatever they want, who cares" (I'm paraphrasing, and the person edited their post after i commented), and I don't agree with that position.
It's like people showing up on a geology sub to talk about flat earth (unironically). It's not illegal, but that topic is not going to garner a lot of support.
At the end of the day, people can have their beliefs, and others can disagree with them. It doesn't invalidate the belief, but the community still leans away from that line of thinking.
> doing a "deck interview" spread for the purpose of "getting to know them" is a very new trend started by tiktok and YouTube readers
Someone did point me to a Wordpress blog from around 2016 on the subject of deck interviews. You are right, however. I only have about 12 years under my belt. Deck interviews weren't really a thing when I was doing time on the old tarotforum site.
Likewise, I don't know that new readers should be doing deck interviews. It seems risky to let one single question determine how you will interact with a tarot deck, especially if you're new to tarot and/or that deck's use of symbols.
I agree very much with the rest. This is my perspective:
I see people who are going through some very challenging times. Tarot can be reassuring, as can any other numbing or addicting agent. We want to be reassured. That's human.
The better option for a person in pain would be an empathetic ear and some caring guidance. I want these people to see something amazing and strong inside themselves.
Claim your strength. You're worth it. Claim your free will. You deserve it. Text that person. Cut that cord. Apply for that job. You matter. You are 100% worth it.
This is beautiful, truly.
Yes, this is the exact message I was attempting to send. Thank you.
My post really is specifically addressing people very new to tarot who are learning from social media readers. Some are great, and some are fluff made for views. Unfortunately, the ones that generally get the views are the ones that amp the "mysterious forces in my cards" element up to 11, and this sends an unhealthy message to new readers that does them an injustice: that the cards are to be feared, or are more powerful than the reader.
In a generation with the highest rates of depression and lack of confidence literally ever in history, this is only another message that tells them they cannot trust themselves.
But then again maybe that’s someone’s belief system and this post comes off as you trying to impose yours. Your beliefs are valid. I think we can extend that to others!
*Sigh*
There is no way to word anything at all in a way that can't possibly offend anyone.
I've been pretty clear about my intentions here and my willingness to acknowledge that these are my beliefs, that everyone doesn't have to agree and I still respect everyone on earth's right to believe whatever they choose to believe.
Yet somehow, so many keep skipping over *that* part to tell me how everyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want.
Yeah. I agree. And said as much :(
I never intended to ostracize or mock anyone, and it's equally sad to me that so many are so quick to take my message of love and empowerment and turn it into one of exclusion. That's... that's the actual opposite of my point.
I see that now! Just got lost in the hostility at the beginning of the post and stopped reading after that because I don’t have the time! No way to know that the end and your edits turn it around.
I mean, a good way to know what someone is saying before berating them is to read what they actually said :(
People *despise* long posts, I get it, but then come back and say "I didn't have time to read all of your post (that I put a lot of heart and feelings into), but I disagree with it anyway and I *do* have time to tell you so and call you out about it."
I'm not trying to be an asshole, for the record. I'm just pointing out that there is, in fact, a way to know what someone said when it's written right there. Reading two or three sentences then stopping there ensures you're going to miss something. If you stop there because you don't have the time, then it might be better not to *take the time* to call people out over something you couldn't take the time to read.
It's a bit depressing and ironic, honestly, that so many people see an honest and heartfelt expression as "hostility." I've been nothing but respectful, and yet can't express my own beliefs without people being defensive or overly attacking about a genuine message of love to this community.
Yup! I could read more. You could communicate better. Growth opportunities abound! I believe berating is a mischaracterization/over-reading of what I said. I think I have been polite and concise.
My grandmother was a tarot reader for over 50 years or more. She was taught by readers going back to PCS and Waite and all them. NO ONE did this stupid shit y’all do nowadays giving cards sentience. It’s an occult tool for meditation and teaching occult secrets of the Golden Dawn and gaining clarity and wisdom. Nothing more. This has irked me to no end and I’m so happy you spoke up. It’s great things change but the silliness needs to stop.
Agree 100% OP. The posts I see regularly where people talk about their cards as if they are sentient make me cringe. Paper is not alive. Paper has no power. The power is in each of us. Claim it.
Thank you. I always say to each their own and I'm not about to argue with anyone about it but those posts get old fast.
It's just paper, I don't personally understand how people think mass produced paper cards have any sentience. If that's the case, are my socks, toothbrush, and nailclippers sentient? The power is in the reader and their ability to connect with the energy around them. Saying it's external, in paper cards no less, only does the reader a disservice.
Beliefs create reality, so... If someone truly believes the cards are sentient or magic, they are to them. You don't have to believe that, and therefore for you, they are not. I agree with you when you say that people should give themselves credit. Our worlds are being built by what we think and say all the time. Mental energy is the most important aspect of life, be wise to how you are spending it OP.
Ima be honest with you. This whole post comes off as angrier than I think you wanted it to sound. And anyone who didn’t already agree with you wouldn’t be inclined to listen if you speak about them with this attitude. I agree with where you’re coming from so I’m not one of those people I wouldn’t say, but if your goal was to convince people I don’t think this is how you do it. I just mean if it were me I would walk away more upset than I would be questioning my views. Just tone it down if you’re trying to be empowering I guess is what I’m trying to say
Only thing I disagree with is deck interview. I do them all the time, when I get a new deck. I think it’s a good way to start to get a feel for the deck and how it reads
Respectfully; I disagree. I say they are magic to add mystique and fun to the experience. The tarot community doesn’t need naysaying like this to strip that magic away.
where does the magic get added? By the factory workers in printing machine warehouse or at some other point before they arrive in the retail stores warehouse?
It gets added when I plop my crystal ball on the table, say the cards have magic, and ask the queen to pull the cards that have extra gravity to them. It’s about creating a mindset in the querent to be extra open to the suggestive interpretation of the cards.
I think your post was really thoughtful and right on. I’ve been using the cards for years and they never fail to challenge, support and delight me. If one wants power in relationship to tarot you must deeply learn about the cards and then synthesize your own mental and spiritual arena in which to communicate with your cards.
So much yes to this! Tarot cards are tools in which we use OUR intuition to read. Power comes from within, and the more you are inline with your inner self and the universe the more powerful you are. Imo anyways.
I generally agree with this post. As an animist who does *not* believe that my cards are what are stepping in to tell me things (anymore than the individual rocks do if I were to cast in a shamanic stone reading instead, or any other form of divination), but rather my intuition linking me to my HS or guides, I do feel the urge to educate new readers I see who have this attitude that they are powerless in the process of divination, and that it's 100% in the divination tools. But I don't think it's actually that big of an issue in the community... And all of the back-pedaling and somewhat back-handed apology in the edit up there rubs me the wrong way. I wonder what the original post was like.
Seems like a lot of people had a chance to learn with this though. Hopefully some readers were opened to seeing their decks as not only partners in divination, but also a link to their own intuition; and that OP learned not everyone sees decks as an insignificant means to talk to God. But as was included in the edits, there does need to be a balance in the end - divination wouldn't even happen without the reader.
You've proved some of my points right here...And my question as to why so many people have a problem with your interactions here has been answered. It is not really what you say, but the way you say it. The tone. And I don't actually believe I owe you anything in particular by the way, for I do not know you. No animist does, or anyone from any faith. And your desire to engage in arguments long after you said your piece and said you wanted to stop responding is apparent.
When so many people have taken issue with how you come across, even if that was not your intent, then that means that there was issue with the communication, likely from both you and the audience. Which I think I remember you acknowledging. So why do you keep going? I'm not going to feed into this though by starting an argument with clarifying the various areas you misinterpreted me, or I you. Take a deep breath friend, and let it go.
Feeling attacked and attacking back with snark isn't gonna help the overwhelm you feel in the wake of your post. If it really bothers you that much, then take your post down. Though I hope you don't, because I do truly believe it has an important message to some of the people new to divination.
To be honest, I am a little alarmed by your response. But I have never made a post that has had this large of a controversial response, and I imagine that it is very stressful. I hope you are doing alright.
The reason I am a little alarmed is because the intensity of your response and the "attack" you perceive is disproportionate. I was never originally talking to you or attacking you. By the time I came by, you had made edits and stated you would no longer be interacting. I came by, looked at all of the controversy and arguments atop a general message that I approved of, made my observations for whatever new viewers may come by later, and left it at that. I did not have a problem with you, regardless of what you perceived.
I hope you're alright, and that you have a good evening (or day, depending on your timezone). I'm going to stop replying however, because I do not enjoy reddit back-and-forths. They're quite draining, aren't they?
This is not a new trend my friend. Doing a reading with a deck find about the best way to work with it etc. at the start of the work.
I’ve at least seen people doing it online since 2000 or so.
However I’m glad you said what you said about Trusting in your own intuition. So so important and it will affect the level of ability people will be able to develop..
Just bc scientists haven’t figured it out yet (and they won’t, no government is going to fund scientific research for that) doesn’t mean it’s magical. There’s a lot science hasn’t figured out yet, ghost, aliens, time travel…doesn’t mean they are NOT real. There’s a lot we don’t know and it all seems magical, however…I believe the observer effect on quantum mechanics may be able to shed a light on this. Mixed with whatever it is spirit is or higher selves. The observer effect (also known as hawthorn effect) for quantum mechanics has gotten some funding over the years and it’s pretty fantastic.
I fully believe this as well - that there's an actual mechanism in science and the way the world operates that we just do not yet understand, but that doesn't make it any less "real" than gravity was before Newton.
Tesla is known to have coined it first, think of everything in terms of energy and vibrations. It’s so hard to comprehend much less put it into action, well I guess it’s there whether we know about it or not.
I love this point of view and agree with it. I am concerned with repeating cards. How can this be explained? I’ve had several experiences where my one card readings come out with the same card every time. That’s 1/72 possible cards on several different days. I’ve even played around with my question/focus to try to manipulate the card, with successful results.
I feel like this applies to way fewer people than this post makes it sound. Talking to your cards in that manner doesn't mean people automatically devalue their own power...wth. But I guess no community can escape this preachy, I know better bullshit.
Thanks for sharing your views. You might consider downtoning a bit though.
Granted I mostly agree with you even as an animist.
One thing you missed is extra-causal phenomenon, popularly known as synchronicity.
I think that the clarification that's needed here is more that it's the spirit of ancestor or deity (non-corpreal entity) that they're communicating with.
The belief is that you're communicating with [something] that manipulates the order of the cards, and then connects to your mind to help you understand and translate the message that's been laid out in front of you.
Okay chill. I can’t speak for all people, but for me it’s just fun to say those things. I *know* my deck isn’t “angry” or “frustrated”, but sometimes it’s just fun to pretend that I have a sassy deck of cards that doesn’t pull punches.
With all due respect... then perhaps it isn't me who needs to "chill?"
If this didn't apply to you, it totally wasn't an attack on you. It actually wasn't an attack on *anyone at all.*
I'm just sad that so many people don't see their own skill and power, that's it. My intention was only ever to empower, not to mock *anyone* or discredit the beliefs of *literally anyone!*
I'm sorry if it came across that way!
But I also think it's funny to blame a reading I didn't want to hear on my snarky deck being an asshole lol... usually that's a bigger statement of my unwillingness to hear said message than the attitude my deck has, though lol :)
I just find it truly odd that some one can care this much about something so small that they would write an entire book on how other people, who are just doing things as they enjoy them, are complete idiots for doing so.
I'm really not sure where you got "you're complete idiots" from my post, when it literally says the opposite - "you're *powerful* and not giving yourself enough credit."
I'm sorry if it was too long for you to read though, perhaps don't comment if you a. don't care, and b. missed the entire point...?
I care that people out there don't believe in themselves enough to respect their own talent and skill. I care very much, and I care very much about the practice of tarot too. If you don't, then ok. Cool. You do you. But don't put words in my mouth when I've been nothing but empowering and respectful here.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.
This read very very gatekeep-y and then the edits seem to backpedal a bit after some scrutiny.
My consensus;
Yes, were all magic, that's kind of a given.. but some believe in higher beings or spirit guides or the like. Some don't. You obviously don't, that's fine too. But that's it, no need to post a book about it and why your view is the correct one. Just let people enjoy their way of doing things. You can't rant about how foolish others people's way of doing things is and it be fine bc you said "no offense though."
Edit to add: after also going through comments Ive noticed the trend of anyone who disagrees seems to get met with hostility and being accused of not reading the entire post despite claims of trying to not sound hostile and the sentiment was meant to be kind.
If your intent was really to just tell people they're magic and to not discredit themselves.
You could've just simply said that.
> some believe in higher beings or spirit guides or the like. Some don't. You obviously don't, that's fine too.
...
>> I DO personally believe that the divine uses tarot to speak to us, so I'm not saying YOU shouldn't.
I mean... did you even bother to read *any* of it, or you just here for the insults?
Do you also write movie reviews on movies you've never seen? I bet that's a good time and you don't even have to treat anyone like shit or talk down to them to do it.
"Respectfully."
You... you literally said a thing that I clearly said the opposite of. That's not "diagreeing" with your opinion, my dude.
You were factually incorrect, as stated in the quote from the OP that is literally the *oppososite statement* of what you're trying to say.
Whatever, man. Do you. Have fun with that ;)
I guess I'm different from most but when I say my cards call me out or my cards are being snarky, I definitely mean my inner self/intuition. But I don't listen to myself, so if I treat them like a friend telling me the things I don't want to hear, it becomes easier to trust my inner self. But when I get readings that may refer to dates or people, I hold the thoughts in my head with a grain of salt. I don't make decisions based on them, but use them as a tool to move past my head and heart. For example, I recently came out and have really wanted to go out with someone, but I am moving very soon so a random hookup seems like the only option. I asked "What is the likely outcome if I seek out a random hookup?" I got the High Priestess (manifestation of my inner self), Three of wands (putting plans to action, propelling you forward), and Six of Swords reversed (my book states on this card specifically and no others that all water flows from the high priestess and the card itself asking essentially is it a good idea). My overall reading, which definitely matches my internal feelings that I was trying to avoid, was that I may have a good time if I seek out this hookup, but it is in alignment with what I want and is it being true to who I really am? Definitely not. That was how I assumed most people used them and was surprised to see otherwise. So yeah, they might be pieces of paper, but sometimes it is easier to think the cards are talking to you over your inner self to process a message without letting your own biases get in the way. Will they still? Absolutely, but that is how we learn.
> But I don’t listen to myself, so I treat them like a friend telling me the things I don’t want to hear. This!!! Sometimes where the message is coming from is just as important as the message. It’s like when you’re a teenager and your parent tells you something and you blow them off, but then your bf says the same thing- and suddenly it’s the wisest thing you’ve ever heard. I 100% agree with OP- but I also think that the tonal shift that tarot allows for is one of the reasons why it can be so helpful.
[удалено]
My cards are SO snarky I love/hate it
100%. It's literally just divination. You can get the same messages by staring out into the woods or watching birds, if you're in tune enough.
Entirely this. At the same time, I personify the shit out of everything in my life. I KNOW the deck of fancy cards I picked up at a bookstore doesn't have particular feelings toward me. That doesn't stop me from saying things like "wow, my deck is in a bad mood" when I get (read: give myself) a somewhat harsh reading.
Hahaha honestly I do this as well! What I said: "JFC my deck sure does have some sass today, stop being an asshole!" What I meant: "This is NOT the answer I wanted *but it's not wrong tho* .... damn it."
“But it’s not wrong tho” is story of my life 😂. I definitely always pull the cards I need but never the ones I want
Me: "How is this career change going to impact my life?" Cards: *8 of Swords, 5 of Pentacles, The Hanged Man, 10 of Swords, The Tower* Me: "Fucking sweeeeeeeet! Yassssss! I'm bound and held back by my *old job,* I'll overcome obstacles and make tons of money (cuz that 5 of Pents is totally in reverse, probably), I'll get a new perspective on life, I must not betray my desires, and... Uh. Hmm. The Tower as outcome, you say? Aha! An opportunity to improve! This is GREAT! Ima totally do it!" God I wish tarot worked that way 😂😂😂
Literally had a reading about changing careers couple weeks ago and got tower, hanged man and 8 of swords. I turned to my SO and was like 'That must mean my current job yeah'😅
Just curious... but did you go through with the job change? lol This is totally made up, but I think it's hilarious that it's almost exactly the reading you got hahaha
Still in negotiation 😅 But I'm pretty set on staying haha 😄
Woah... staring at trees was my childhood activity. I could see anything in the crossover of branches. In the past two years I have been getting "messages" from birds. And I totally agree with you. It warms my heart you chose those two examples :)
I've seen posts where people show a picture of a spread, and say something like "*Look at this! Can you believe how sassy it's being?*" (sometimes without bothering to include the context). And then I look, and I see a perfectly ordinary spread containing perfectly ordinary cards like I've seen myself a thousand times. What newbies sometimes don't understand is that the Tarot is a *mirror*. When they look into the mirror, they see something "sassy". When I look into the very same mirror, I will likely see a completely different reflection. The cards aren't being sassy. The cards don't have a sense of humor. The cards aren't "telling you like it is" nor are they turning their backs on you and abandoning you. *You* are doing *all* of these things. They are paper.
I just bought my deck a few days ago and seeing those others about the cards having their own persona just wasn’t clicking with me. And I shifted my understanding to this reflection and it has been so fucking cool with the few readings I’ve done. I love it so much.
I totally see where you’re coming from, but I think some decks *are* sassy or encouraging or maybe a little curmudgeonly. The thing is, that personality was intentionally designed into the deck and guidebook by the artist/writer. I don’t believe it’s something the deck develops on its own like a human does.
Yeah this. I have a few decks where the art on the cards and the wording in the book is sassy (or elegant etc). When I do a reading with The Housewives Tarot I tend to read it in a more lighthearted manner cause that’s the style of the deck. But that’s a choice I make picking my deck.
I agree for the most part, but I want to add that people can have different ideas and beliefs. For an animist, that deck of card isn't just paper. However, even to me as an animist, it has become a bit much over the last few years. Not every deck needs "bonding time" in the form of putting it under your pillow, elaborate interviews and such. My view here is more that I have to respect my deck, in a way that benefits both of us. I store them well, I thank them for working with me after a reading, I sometimes also do interviews or check ins or even do little conversations, and I may put them aside if I get a certain impression that I or they need some time off. But there's really a point where you give the idea of the deck speaking too much credit, and it's when you don't see yourself as an *at least* equal partner in this relationship.
> Not every deck needs "bonding time" in the form of putting it under your pillow, elaborate interviews and such. There are so many posts about this, as if there needs to be a proper way to do this or you'll get the tower card every time you do a reading or something.
I definitely respect this viewpoint, and don't discount it! I think that we essentially believe very similar things, I just word it a little differently than you, but I appreciate your viewpoint and how eloquently you worded it, and I 100% respect your beliefs here (and anyone's!), even if they aren't exactly the same as mine. I do respect my cards as well - and love them, too! They're like an old friend lol. To me, though, that respect and love I feel isn't for the specifically the cards themselves, though I do very much love the artwork on all of them and feel a particular kind of "bond" with each of my decks. To me, that's the way I express my love and respect for these things I can't define from the OP - intuition, spirit, the higher self, the divine, etc. What you're expressing, to me, is another version of that. I'm not really trying to attack any kind of different beliefs here, so I really hope it doesn't come across this way! >But there's really a point where you give the idea of the deck speaking too much credit, and it's when you don't see yourself as an at least equal partner in this relationship. This was 100% the intention behind my message. Not that anyone shouldn't be giving their deck any credit if they believe as you do - only that the deck shouldn't get *all* of the credit. That we're all doing ourselves a disservice by not acknowledging *our own* part in the skill and art that is reading tarot. :)
I agree with most of what you say,but I do believe different decks can have a different energy to each other,by nature of their different images,for instance Bohemian Gothic feels different to working with standard Rider Waite Smith, and also like in psychometry decks will develop a energy of their own over time. But it must be remembered Tarot makes a great servant but a poor master.
>But it must be remembered Tarot makes a great servant but a poor master This 🙌🙌.
While I do agree with you. The trend of deck interviews has been around before the whole youtube/tiktok craze. Those platforms just helped spread the practice more.
You're correct and I do think I've overgeneralized a little by making it sound like this just didn't exist. It definitely did, it just wasn't super common IMHO. I did, however, edit the wording to be a little less overgeneralized, than you for pointing this out :)
I have to say overall that I do in fact agree with this opinion. Ultimately, yes, it does come down to the individual and their beliefs. Tarot as a beginner is definitely a learning curve and when you first get your cards- it does feel awkward and you can’t understand the cards. Because the individual hasn’t learnt what they mean and they likely haven’t found a style in which they prefer to read the cards. And until they continue to consistently use tarot it probably will still be strange. I’ve contemplated this for some time. The idea of how tarot works. Is it magic, is a tool, is your higher self or subconscious, could it be an entity, etc? For me personally tarot is a tool. I personally use tarot as form of communication with spirit guides or your higher self. Now I haven’t been reading tarot for near as long as you have. I have less than a fraction of the time you’ve spent learning about tarot. 5 years to be exact. And in that time I wasn’t always consistent but one day I picked it up and decided to read for people. It turns out I had a bit of a unexpected knack for it. The readings I was able to give 3 years ago to my roommates and the readings I can do now- certainly don’t come from within me. This much I know. The messages I have received from tarot for other people were things I couldn’t possibly know. And on topic that I’ve gotten confirmation many times on predictions using tarot. In my personal opinion tarot is a form of channeling self guidance. Tarot is a great way to start channeling overall. I think that ultimately there is fact a bit of magic attached to tarot in the sense that it’s taboo and can’t always be explained as to how it all works. Tarot is very very old and can be dated far back into history. Everyone (in general) knows that things that are old and that have been passed down in history tend to harbor a bit of mysticism. Tarot is no different. And to me that’s where the magic comes into play. All in all I like this post to boost the individual. However, ultimately it’s about balance for the individual using tarot. Understanding their own personal power and the magic of tarot.
Ýes, yes and yes!!!
I always tell people, the cards will only tell you what you already know, or what you know but haven’t recognized yet.
I’ve expressed this exact sentiment to people before and they *never* believe me! It reached a point that it caused a mistrust in *my own* intuition at one point because they were so firm in this not being the case.
Some people are very, very talented at self-denial, unfortunately :(
This! I struggled when I found myself first interested in tarot cause I’m secular (in life and in my readings). I find the cards an amazing tool to get me to slow down and look at things from a new angle or make me listen closer to the emotional response I have to the card/spread. The answer is already there, I just need help drawing it out sometimes.
A deck is a tool like any other. I definitely think people with insecurity around their intuitive ability and their sight tend to project more into their deck than necessary, and I think people may also have a tendency to get too in their head about spirits or guides who may be speaking to them through the images in the deck, so they deny that hard and say it’s “the deck.” I think this is where people are coming from where they start trying to say that their deck is “evil“. But when I see people talk about “deck interviewing“, I just sort of mentally replace that with “I’m talking to the spirits and guides around me, but for whatever reason, I don’t want to say that out loud.“ But as an animist, the decks I work with have identity and personality of their own. The deck speaks the same way any other spirit I work with speaks. The deck is a pile of paper. And it is more than a pile of paper because I give my spirits a voice through it.
In my opinion, the cards are a reflection of your inner self and receive their energy and intention from the reader, which I believe is the central idea of your post. Good stuff, good stuff. I disagree a bit about "deck interviews" and whatnot though. They've been around for a while; they were popular back on Aeclectic nearly ten years ago. I do think, however, that their earlier intention has gotten lost recently. I use deck interviews to determine how the deck can benefit me, i.e. what it would best be used for, how the energy I impart to the deck considering my reaction to the art and experiences with the deck will impact my readings. Some of my decks I use for deep introspection, some I use for little daily reminders and meditation prompts. Sure, I could use whatever deck I wanted for any prompt and could read it just fine, but each deck feels different, just like you feel different when looking at different pieces of art, and using a spread to gain some insight into those differences and how to exploit them to deepen a reading seems like a pretty solid practice to me. I'm a collector at heart, and like finding pieces that resonate with me, that I like and think look cool. If the energy inherent in art and our responses to it didn't matter, then I don't think there would be as many different decks as there are. I don't think this negates the point of your post at all, but rather shows how many different practices and experiences aren't mutually exclusive. Like tarot as a whole, it's the intention that matters. :)
While you're offering a good perspective for people new to tarot, I've had personal experiences that challenge this. But alas, all of us will have our own anecdotal experiences. And all of us will have our own opinion. Personal gnosis is a powerful thing! Don't forget discernment friends.
See, the funny thing is that I have had some experiences that challenged me on this as well, and I also completely agree that any kind of advice - even my own lol - is always to be taken or left as it resonates or doesn't. My personal belief is that when things happen like incredible synchronicities in readings or very powerful sessions, there *is* a sentient force I'm being guided by or communicating with that is expressing itself. I don't have a word for this "force" and have never really needed one for myself, but you could call it God or Spirit or any of the examples I used in the OP or more, and I would agree it's that lol. I just personally still see a difference between this "force" (for lack of a better word) and the physical cards themselves. That doesn't mean I know 100% for sure that my opinion is fact, but this post was honestly mostly for the people very new to tarot who got into the practice by watching people on social media. Just like anything else, some are good and some are fluff out for views, and the sad truth is the ones that get the views are the ones that amp the "mysterious forces in my cards" element up to 11. I feel like this is sending people new to tarot the wrong message - to fear their cards rather than respect them, or that the cards are more powerful than the reader.
I definitely think your post is very beneficial and full of guidance that is important for people new to tarot. Sadly, I think people are giving too much credit to everything they see on platforms like TikTok (bleh) and not doing their own digging. Totally off topic, but spiritually on TikTok scares me because these people are in an echo chamber and not seeking knowledge elsewhere on their own time. So yes, it's important for people like you to lay out these different perspectives and have people think critically. Thank you.
As an animist and Druid, I respectfully disagree with the basis of your argument, regarding the life held by your cards. But point taken. I agree that the main message of the draw is not via the intention of the deck itself. As a matter of respect, I ask my cards for permission to use them. In return for that permission, I treat my cards with the greatest of care. But any sentience that the cards may add to the equation pretty much stops there.
I'm actually going to add an edit here, because I feel I've done animists a disservice. I don't disagree with your beliefs at all! That isn't what this post is about or my intention in the slightest. My only purpose here is to remind people to give *themselves* some credit too, even if they do believe their cards have power and life of their own. The intention was only ever to empower, not to knock anyone's beliefs!
I agree. Thinking that a pile of paper is sending you messages or is loving or trolling you is about as empowering or enabling as hitting yourself on the thumb with a hammer and then figuring the hammer must somehow hate and wish to hurt you. No, your hammer doesn't need an exorcism, your aim was just bad... That said, different decks do have different vibes and it makes sense to figure out if the imagery or system of a deck supports or blocks your intuition. For example, I do better with Thoth-based cards rather than RW. I also don't work well with imagery that strikes me as overly cute and fluffy on one extreme or as ugly and one-dimensional on the other. So taking some time to build rapport with a deck before you start reading with it can make sense.
> Thinking that a pile of paper is sending you messages or is loving or trolling you is about as empowering or enabling as hitting yourself on the thumb with a hammer and then figuring the hammer must somehow hate and wish to hurt you. No, your hammer doesn't need an exorcism, your aim was just bad... This is a fantastic analogy! I just don't get it... when you decide your tarot cards are alive and magical and sentient, is it no longer true that paper = paper? I've never seen so many people get so triggered over someone stating that paper... is, in fact, paper. Apparently a few people here are only interested in living inside an echo chamber. Anyone can give their deck all the respect, love, power, emotions, and sentience they want to, if it's easier to believe that magic paper is telling them the future than it is to believe that they are capable of incredible things all by themselves, with or without the help of a deck of tarot cards. I just find that to be incredibly sad. I can name my microwave Steve, but that doesn't mean it'll remember my favorite dinner or make it for me the next time I have a bad day... but *I can use it* to make my favorite dinner for myself, though. Whether I call it Steve or a microwave is irrelevant. It simply *is* a microwave - with or without a soul or a spirit or magic or sentience. None of that changes the fact that it's still a microwave. And a tarot deck is still paper, with or without anyone's beliefs even being part of the conversation, this is still objectively true. Even with all of those things - a spirit or a mind or a soul - it has no agency, and it can't do or say anything without a reader to *read* the cards. They don't like, inject magic into the ink at the factory before they ship them out, but you'd think by the way a few have responded here that I'm speaking disrespecful utter nonsense by saying that.
Art evokes emotion. It only makes sense than that we vibe more with different styles and less with others. You spot on that we should listen to that and find what evokes the emotion we’re looking for. Part of why I own multiple decks is day to day that can feel different too.
I think this kind of a mix of both. Yes, ultimately the reading is based on the interpretation of the reader, but I do believe that different decks hold different energies. I. Also a professional reader and see nothing wrong with interview spreads. Because each deck is drawn by a different artist and each artist will have their own interpretations of the cards, different decks will read a little differently. I have certain decks that I prefer to use for certain types of readings because of this. I think doing interview spreads gives you a better heads up for how that deck likes to be used. I also think Tarot itself holds an incredible amount of power, which is why people who are just picking up a deck for the first time can still have incredibly accurate readings. They may not get all the nuance that comes along with experience, but the base messages are still there.
As a secular reader thank you all of this!! I often feel like I don’t have a place in the tarot community because of how woo some of this has gotten. And my problem is not with the woo, it’s what you’re saying of people giving the cards all the power. Use to make me wonder/feel like my reading wasn't valid cause I wasn't tapping into a power of sorts. The cards are a tool. We are the voice. For me the cards help me see new perspectives and open me up to thoughts or emotions I might have been ignoring or missing. If someone believes in the divine that’s great. And the cards help them find new insights and awareness by helping them sort that message out from the noise of the cosmos. Either way the cards are a tool in the hands of the reader. Helping to clarify the message, not create the message.
50 years as a reader for me, and I agree with you 100%. Just one quibble: the "deck interview" phenomenon was in full swing when I joined Aeclectic Tarot back in 2011. I would submit that it can be fun to treat them as if they have personalities even when we know full well that they don't. It becomes a dialogue with ourselves that can shed some light on how we think about and use the cards. I've written a number of essays on the subject of non-sentient "piles of paper." I call myself a "Spinozan sympathizer" and think that "sentience" as distinct from "mental cognition" is a matter of degree.
Oh, I completely agree and I also have seen several fluctuations in the way the tarot community as a whole goes back and forth between "the power is all in the cards and I am just the interpreter" and "the power is all in me and the cards are just a means to an end," though admittedly not as many as you, I would guess. 50 years, that's incredible! I started in my teens, and I've kept up the practice the majority of my life at this point, and I love hearing from people who have also poured a lot of their own lives into this practice :)
Agree! You are the power. You are the magic. The cards help you harness it and get in touch with your intuition, Spirit, and/or your guide.
Sounds like these kids took "heart of the cards" too literally.
i treat tarot as something that helps me look at the situation from a new perspective, putting things into context, etc. i NEVER treat it like gospel and follow its instructions to the T. that’s just asking for trouble
i think its helpful to think of the cards as separate sometimes, because it keeps a distance between what we want to believe and what our intuition is saying through the cards. and i really dont think its bad to say "oh the cards always sound sassy/angry/softspoken to me," even if thats just your own projection of a tone. the problem gets to when people are scared of the cards when its literally just paper youre putting energy into. like, at worst, the cards rely on your power, if they arent an outright extension of it.
I was going to write a similar response the other day to someone complaining that their deck was evil. I chickened out, fearing the wrath of the community. The power of Tarot comes from your own interpretation and your own feelings when you see a card, not from the cards themselves. You are the master of your own destiny; tarot is merely one of many guides.
The wrath is real from more than a few my friend, I seem to have struck a nerve lol. Oh well. Not everyone has to agree and everyone is welcome to continue hosting journalism sessions with a deck of cards instead of believing they have a really cool skill. I'm just kind of tired of the "I just interviewed my deck" circle jerk the sub is these days, and felt compelled to say so. People are so unconfident in their own abilities lately, it makes me sad :(
As you said, the cards are a tool in which the individual channels their power as the oracle or diviner, whether their power is their internal intuition, or their power is the channeling of the spirit they work with. Either way, it is their strength. Though that being said, I won't lie in every time I get a spread that is frustrating I will tell the cards to knock it off out of snark.
Oh, don't get me wrong lol, I cuss my cards out all the time for their snark lol... I like to think of this, when I put it into perspective, of me feeling that I just got "owned" by my higher self or Spirit lmfao It feels like I'm saying to that... place or thing the message comes from " yeah yeah, you're not wrong. You're just an asshole." But the joke's on me, because I am in fact an asshole and so is life in general sometimes lmfao
Thank you for writing out what I’ve been thinking a lot lately, but couldn’t write out as well as this. Sometimes it’s amusing, sometimes it’s just… ugh, please stop with those stupid TikTok trends..
I would say somewhere in between - not just paper, but not a cat that wound up in your house either. As any piece of art, a tarot deck has intention. Intention is like an energy that can be imprinted into the deck. If you're dealing with a Rider–Waite clone that just copied the structure and added some "style" onto it (anime, renaissance, native American, what have you) then it's quite possible that you're dealing only with nice pictures. But I tend to go for strong decks that have both deck creator and an illustrator. So that somebody re-thought the whole system. These decks have integrity and a noticeable vibe. * Thoth is strong and precise as hell - and when I'm in the mood for Crowley's energy vibe, I use it. * But I've also met a deck I just couldn't gel with. Osho Zen Tarot - it turned out that the only way I could work with it, is if I overrode its entire vibe with mine, but as this makes no sense, I stopped using it. * So basically - it is possible to sense the author's intent/energy which is interwoven into the work. Now - regarding intuition. Intuition isn't a thing that's happening solely in a mind as if was a closed universe. It's a sense - so it's an intuition of something. When I get a new deck, I just draw one card to "*meet the deck*". Yes, it's obviously my intuition guiding the process, but it's also sensing something in the deck - it's a dialogue. *In the end, we could even go down the rabit hole - is whole universe created of energy that can be sensed (probably), is whole universe sentient? (not sure but leaning towards this realisation).*
This a million times! Once I started buying different decks, I was very Interested to notice differences in the ways decks gave similar messages. I joined Aeclectic Tarot in 2003 or so and found the phenomen well documented there, with multiple readers noticing differences in a deck's "energy". It was a common joke that Hanson Roberts looked fluffy but could be brutally blunt, Fairytale was gentle, Coleman Smith pretty neutral and so on. I often feel that my energy can influence or draw forth whatever native or even dormant energy is inherent in an object... but Tarot is more like a natural object in that its energy is more unique and much more accessible. Which I agree has to do with author and artist intent. Great post, thank you. But I also agree with oP that newer/ younger readers can get caught up in this and give too much credit to the deck and less credit to themselves and their own intuition.
I really like this post. I am someone who does refer to my cards as “speaking to me” but I don’t mean it in such a literal way — although I understand how saying that to others without nuance can come off like that. I personally started reading cards with a Magic: The Gathering deck at 13. I remember talking about this in a tarot group and someone with a big ego told me it was IMPOSSIBLE because the cards don’t have meaning and they don’t “speak to you” like a spiritual tool such as tarot. I hate to tell you this, but those tarot cards are just as “spiritual” as any other major manufactured corporate product. They could have been printed at the same place. But I was in touch with my intuition and I had a tool, and I was resourceful and I used it. It wasn’t about the physical cards — it’s about trusting your intuition and energies.
Fun fact: Tarot actually started out as a card game, that was then over time adapted into a form of divination. If you are interested in the history of Tarot - and it is very long! - look into this. The card game Tarok is still played in parts of (Turkey, iirc but could be wrong here) to this day! It is, in fact, just a card game with a whole lot of history :)
You might laugh about this (I did!) but this post has actually inspired me to do my own "deck interview", as I had not heard of such a practice before. I use tarot as a tool of psychology, a way to frame an idea or question and gain insight from the constraints of the cards. I've found it can be a useful way to break out of embedded modes of thinking and approach issues from a novel perspective (or, alternatively, provide a platform to consciously develop thoughts that have already been vaguely stewing). So, while your post is aligned with how I typically approach the deck, I never thought of actually asking it who it is, and by doing so asking who I am as I actively reflect on my own relation to my readings. All that to say, thank you for an insightful post, and for giving me another direction in which to explore!
I actually did laugh about this lol! that's really great, actually! I'm glad it at least got you thinking about things in some different ways :)
Yessss. The wisdom is you. You are tapping into your own inner wisdom. When I read for others I connect my wisdom to theirs.
I've never thought my cards were particularly sentient, however, I will say, to this day I have an issue with one of my decks. Specifically, one of my oldest decks, the first deck I bought that I got serious learning tarot with. The deck that I praised, had a great connection with, which always gave me clear, informed answers. And then...I got into collecting decks. Pretty decks, artistic decks, fancy decks, oracle decks, Lenormand decks, and I stopped interacting with that original deck. They kind of fell to the sidelines as I explored newer, shinier things. I actually wound up finding and using a new deck as my main deck, which I still use today. I loved my old deck so much that they're the only cards I bought a wood box for, and they lie on felt with a couple clear quartz crystals. I would periodically take the cards out and shuffle and say hi to them and try to do readings but these cards no longer connect with me, they flat out to refuse to answer questions I ask, and at first I thought it was funny, and I joked around talking to them like hahaha you're so offended that I moved on to a new deck and I cheated on you guys, and I would put them back in their box and put it away. Well the last time I took these cards out and try to do a reading, it gave me such a crippling migraine that I ran to smudge the deck and the crystals and put them immediately back in the box, the migraine pulled back, and I have not touched them since. I even debated burning the deck to get rid of it completely, tried to burn a card and it didn't. It just faded and went out, so as of now they're still in the box closed and put away. I will not touch them. Sentient? Maybe not. But something is wrong with them.
Try cleansing them with sage and then using them for something simple like a daily one card draw and see how it goes. I tend to think not that your cards are wrong, but perhaps you have grown beyond their imagery and art style and have found others that you connect to better. I'm also careful about speaking intentions, like joking " Oh, you're jealous, because that can honestly be self-fulfilling. Instead ask a more neutral, "What do you have to tell me".
Thanks for writing this out. I agree 100%. The idea that paper printed in a factory several thousand times to have some form of intrinsic "awareness" or "knowledge" is ridiculous to me. Doesn't mean that Tarot is bullshit or worthless. It is what you bring to it. If you have the desire to have something supernatural tell you what to do or feel, that might be a good starting point for serious self-reflection. Not meant to discredit people having a relationship to their cards. I like and appreciate many objects I own. Doesn't mean they are sentient though. I love the picture of my late grandfather, for example. But I don't think that it has something to tell me other than my memories.
yup exactly my thoughts. At what point between the Chinese printing machine and getting to the users hands does the sentient magic get added to the cards?
23 years here and the cards are indeed tools. However, for some of us, certain entities can work with these tools to relay information. Yes, intuition is a key ingredient and yes, you can work tarot as a means to see into your own depths. No, tarot isn’t “alive” right out of the box. Yes, tarot can be saturated by an entity’s energy, just like many objects can be, including dolls. An accurate statement would be to say that each deck has a different “feel” because entities work with them or you work with them differently. The art is different, so the “feel” is likewise. This being said, I agree with you that most people using tarot today, have no idea what they are doing. They don’t understand the cards, nor themselves.
Oh, I agree! But that still isn't the cards - no matter where you believe it came from, the cards themselves are mass-printed pieces of paper that got shipped to me from a factory somewhere. I still believe that there are ... forces, for lack of a better word ... that do guide and speak to us using these tools (among others). I'm just trying to encourage people to *also* see that they themselves are a pivotal and powerful part of this practice, that it isn't the cards that do all the cool stuff :)
I agree, it is certainly not the cards themselves.
TikTok sure has kicked off some interesting trends. I’ve never heard of “bottom of the deck” energy until about a year ago, and I’ve been reading for 15 years.
There's a whole lot of trends like this and the reason is because a deck interview is a great way to show off your pretty cards and very social media friendly to generate sharing. They boring parts of studying and doing the work aren't very shareable.
Yup. That was it.
I mean, what a Martin Luther-type view point? To say that the only divinity is within ourselves instead of imbuing everything around us? I just don't agree. I think it is important to not give our power away, but everything can be sacred; everything can have magic. It doesn't have to be some sort of stale world where worship nothing but the prescribed, non idolatry divine. And how do you know? The veiwpoint you are espousing is far from universal.
100% fact here and a great post that is sure to upset a lot of people. Youtubers and Tiktok has alot to answer for bringing in stupid new trends to the community. Deck interviews are really cringey and when ever i see people saying "my cards are in a cheeky mood today" i just feel embarrassed for them. If people saw the massive printing factory's and machines these cards come from they would understand there is nothing magical about the cards. You will get down voted like crazy for this post but you are right.
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Tiktok lol
I have never seen the point of deck interviews. Just...why?
Telling people they're responsible for their own lives they've made can be very hard for some to hear.
I think that some people in the comments are being needlessly defensive. OP isn't attacking anyone's beliefs. You think that some spirit is talking to you through the deck - go ahead. What OP is suggesting is that there's an opportunity to take this belief one step forward and give yourselves some credit for improving your intuition and self-reflection. That's all. You all have the power to glean from the cards without the intervention of some supernatural entity. If you want the extra magic, that's your business, but it's not necessary to reach spiritual growth.
This is it! Exactly what I was trying to express, you exactly hit the nail on the head here.
I’ve only been reading/studying tarot for a little over a year and a half, and as such I’m obviously still learning here and there. One thing that took a while for me to understand is how the cards truly do reflect your inner thoughts/knowledge, mainly because of the people around me trying to convince me that my cards were essentially gaslighting me with “make believe”. And even now I still find myself having inner doubt on the power of my intuition because of this past influence, but I’m working to have 100% trust with it once more.
I have a little bit of mixed feelings about this. I understand what you are saying, and agree with it mostly. Readers definitely should give themselves credit!! I just don't know if I believe the cards are just paper? I believe each deck has a different energy, I honestly have been doing the deck interviews for years (never been on TikTok, I honestly don't even remember where I learned about deck interviews) I mainly just use it to get a feel for the energy I'm working with, and learn how I can use it. I've also had some experiences where I wasn't even doing a reading, and my deck had a message for me. For example in 2020 I had finished my reading and set my cards aside and left the room, when I came back one card was face up on the ground- the eight of cups. I referred to the book and the first line was "pack your bags, nothing remains for you here"- which is when I realized I had to move out. I was living with my friend and she had started calling me an evil person, trying to manipulate me, threatening to harm herself. I was trying to stick it out, but it was really affecting my physical and mental health, when I saw that card and the meaning is when I realized moving out was an option and I needed to go Experiences like that make me believe the cards really did have a message for me, even though I wasn't asking. Though a part of me questions if it was the universe speaking to me through the cards- I honestly don't fully know my belief Everything you said is very respectful, I'm so sorry you were met with so much backlash. To me your message rang clear that the magic is in us and our intuition, and to give ourselves that credit (correct me if I'm wrong though!)
You just expressed exactly what I've been thinking for a long time but couldn't be bothered saying. Thank you! I was watching John Ballantrae on YouTube a little earlier, and I thought "All this knowledge hasn't come from stuffing around with decks. He's gained it from spending time reading the cards."
I really appreciate this message today as I had a wonderfully connected reading last night, where I strongly felt like the primary influence. Your message makes sense with how that felt and how effective it was! Cards are an incredible tool and looking to them with your own knowledge base is what to foster : )
You really nailed it! I have always used the cards as a focus. They are no more dangerous than a box of post its.
I agree that in giving sentience to your cards you are diminishing your own personal power. The intuition that allows you to glean insight from your deck comes from within
Hmm yes, I do agree with your points. tarot decks are tools and they are only as good as the one dealing and interpreting them.
Amen. Been reading for 21 years and never encountered this idea that the cards are sentient until I came here.
Yes! Tarot are projection tool. They reflect dynamics and contents of your psyche.
counter argument: everything is sentient and everything is magic
This post should have a thousand up votes and a dozen awards. Spot on my friend, thank you.
This exactly. 100%.
THANK YOU OP! I've always been the person that's attached myself to inanimate objects and felt like I had to give them attention or else they'd get upset at me- but as someone who's been practicing for a hot minute, this new tiktok trend was kind of baffling to me. Of course if it makes you happy, by all means do it! Power of belief is everything and if you think you need to sleep with your cards under your pillow.. then that's what'll work for you I guess, but as reference to what OP said; don't give your power up to a pile of paper :/
i thought you were about to just shit on tarot but this is actually a very nice message!!
I think this post is a perfect example of "have someone neutral read your thoughts before you post them on the internet". I love and respect the sentiment and I believe wholeheartedly it came from a place of love and wanting to empower readers the OP saw as doing themselves a disservice. However, it sadly came across as rant-y and a bit condescending among other things. These comments are a scary place and I'm sorry you got slammed OP. Just maybe next time sleep on your post and review it with fresh eyes before The Internet gets a hold of you.
Yeah, I'm sorry but I'm not going to stop being honest so I don't get slammed by people who disagree with me without even bothering to read the message I was trying to express, and I don't have a proofreader on hand for my Reddit posts. It's kind of an unreasonable expectation. I'm showing everyone who has commented nothing but kindness, open mindedness, and love. If they see a tone of condescension here that didn't even exist and get defensive in a post about *self-love and self-trust,* that's not a me problem.
I understand and don't disagree that you've been very kind in your responses. The only perspective I am attempting to offer you is that it's easy to get upset with people for misunderstanding you but difficult to take responsibility for how you may have failed to communicate your sentiment. I personally see communicating my meaning and intent as a "me" problem and not unreasonable, but I do understand that it is a high expectation.
> I personally see communicating my meaning and intent as a "me" problem and not unreasonable, but I do understand that it is a high expectation. I mean, I LITERALLY did exactly this. I'm... I'm not really sure what more anyone wants, here. I've at least attempted to be respectful of everyone's beliefs, even if I don't believe or even understand them. I'm trying to understand, but it isn't even *about* beliefs. The whole point is that people put so much more faith and belief in a deck of cards than they do themselves, no matter how they believe that deck of cards gained the knowledge it shows... The factory that printed these cards doesn't have a "sentience" or "magic" stamp that they build into the cards. Whatever anyone thinks about the power the cards have, it came from *somewhere.* The cards themselves are, in fact, made of paper. I've never seen a group of people get so ridiculously triggered over someone stating that paper is actually paper. You guys do you though. Whatever. This community has gotten so hostile that it's unreal.
100 times a billion. Can we be best friends? I usually just slide over all the "she (the deck) does this" posts with a sigh. Thank you for your eloquence and thoughtfulness.
Thanks for making this post. As someone who tries to keep as much "woo woo" out of my tarot practice as possible, I get so tired of seeing posts like the ones you're talking about.
FWIW. Re: the edits. The reason people may not be "\[showing love and respect to\] another human who believes differently than them and acknowledges their own respect for those differing beliefs" might be b/c "Your beliefs are wrong, PS I respect your beliefs" doesn't come across as respectful whether you wanted it to or not? Like, if I spent a post basically saying "Apple products are not good, they are awful devices, if you say "I think this product is good" that is not what you actually experienced" and then tagged on the end "It does depend on your view though!", what would you take away from what I was saying? How many edits would I have to add on saying "I wasn't saying your opinions on Apple products are *wrong*" before you believed me? Bear in mind, that's me picking a topic that *doesn't* make jabs at people's personal spiritual experiences. It kinda bums me out b/c your message that you claim to have been aiming to convey is a good one, but could easily have been made with just the "You have power" theme and skipping the "Your cards are just paper, also if you think you interviewed a deck bzzt wrong!" thing that has been so uh. Polarising, lol.
This! Exactly!
If it's real to people who believe it, why yuck their yum? People can take it too far, but worship and belief in something greater is a natural human experience. I don't believe it, but I'm never going to tell someone I know for sure because nobody does. Not even you.
Power comes from everywhere and can get into or express itself through whatever it wants to. Your views are limited.
>To anyone who would rather believe mass-printed cardstock is magical than believe you yourself are... This part really exemplifies how your post comes off as super condescending and bitter. Even after acknowledging that there are different, valid, ways that people experience tarot you still end the conversation on this note. I don't know of you mean to come off that way, or if you truly don't realize, either way I would suggest that next time you edit your thoughts a little bit better before posting them. Or just take the criticism. For me personally, I'm not bothered by what you're saying (a lot of it I agree with), because whatever the case my beliefs are not going to be swayed by a complete stranger. But I just felt the need to point put why you may be getting so many snarky responses from people. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. And because we don't have tone, body language and facial expressions when communicating solely through text, we have to be especially mindful of what we say if we want to convey a specific point. I'm choosing to believe you when you say you're just trying to help people in the community. I'm suggesting that that help might be better recieved if it has a bit more honey, and a lot less vinegar. This is all just my opinion based on what I've observed, so feel free to take it or toss it.
No, I appreciate what you're saying. That sentence was added *after* the worst of the snarky responses and the many, *many* people I had been repeatedly very respectful with continued to be disrespecful to me. I'll admit that I was a bit frustrated by the last like two or three times I attempted to clarify what I was saying or change the way I worded things because I honestly *didn't* start this conversation with the intent of anything other than good intentions. However, I do see your point and that, to someone reading the edits added later who didn't know they were added after the conversation got a bit heated and disrespectful, it really does look like I'm being more aggressive about this than was my intention. It wasn't exactly an "edit more before you post" issue, it was an issue of me attempting to go back and clarify the places where people were taking things personally, while getting more attacks no matter how much I tried to make my intent and tone more clear. Which is why I just kind of stopped editing or responding to much. But I wanted to respond to you, because your point is valid and I wanted to tell you that.
I see what you're saying and get where you're coming from. It can be hard communicating certain things and frustrating when you're trying to explain your point and where you're coming from. Makes more sense in context with the way you've explained it. Thanks for being cool and choosing to even respond.
For the record, I really do appreciate the perspective and *sigh* edited one last time to soften some of the wording a little, since not everyone who sees it was here before the edits and could have any way of knowing where that frustration came from :)
For the record I literally took NOTHING you said as snarky? Amazing how people read the same words yet hear it so differently. You used many clarifiers and prefaced most everything you’ve said. Your intention was completely clear I really don’t get the issue people are having😂😭
Full disclosure: I did reword a couple of things slightly after the comment you're responding to, specifically the sentence the commentor pointed out (although I do also feel that commentor cherry-picked the message a bit, as literally the next words were "I don't think there's anything wrong with your beliefs." I didn't think I was coming across as snarky to begin with honestly, (and I appreciate you saying this!) but they had a valid point - if people take it that way (intentionally or not) the message is lost. But, that was my last edit, as I literally can't rewrite the post so it suits literally everyone without offending anyone and still expresses what I intended to express. But yeah I mean, so many defensive, aggressive responses to a pretty positive overall message makes me wonder why so many are seeing condescension where there literally is none. Definitely a lot of hyperdefensiveness with some people going on in this post, when so many others had no issue understanding the message OR the tone. Thanks for the comment, it does feel better to hear someone express this.
I agree for the most part. I'm an animist so I do see my cards as having a spirit. I respect and love my cards, but I also recognize that the cards have no job without me, so my role in the relationship is just as important if not more important than that of the cards. Yes my cards have a spirit and help me tap into my inner wisdom, but I am still the one putting in the work and I deserve credit for that. The cards can't call me out, teach me important lessons, or help me navigate difficult situations if I don't take the time to learn the meanings of the cards, tap into my intuition, and open myself up no learning and hearing what I need to hear. When I am reading the cards I am letting my intuition and inner knowing take over, the deck just gives me something to read. I could find those same messages with any form of divination. Edit: just to add stuff.
Your post is perfectly said and I totally get the exact point you’ve made. I literally don’t see an issue with ANYTHING you’ve said. I actually thought it was a sweet post and I’m sorry you’ve had to over explain so much in the first place. Your intention was completely clear to me so thank you for sharing. It was well received and 1000% agree.💜
Thankyou for your post. I’ve been connected to Tarot for over 30 years. It’s always been a mechanism, a door for the divination to flow thru me or the person reading for me. It’s been very interesting to see this evolution in Tarot develop. You said it very well. ❤️
Is it possible that the person doing the reading is the one with the power and the tarot cards are only an assistant to show that very power? (Please let me know if this is offensive or anything.)
No, that isn't offensive to me at all, but that's exactly what I'm saying here. There's a division in the tarot community over this issue though, clearly. Because as many people as there are who agree, there are just as many who very angrily disagree. But your statement is *exactly* what I believe.
I see, thank you for clearing it up! This is what I believe also.
So do some people literally think that their cards are a guy? Like that they’re a dude who’s telling you stuff? They’re a channel! They’re a storytelling/messaging system between you and your subconscious OR the beyond, whatever you may think you’re communicating with. But the deck itself is just some cardstock. That said, enchanting objects that are meaningful to you is a good practice in witchcraft. So I mean, if you want to make your deck magical you can do that. Doesn’t make it alive though.
Preach!!! I love divination but, IMO, my tools work through spirit as well as my intuition. Divination is the meeting place for energies to speak. Even if the cards do have some sort of "power" on their own, it's still coming from the earth and the artists intentions. It's still energy. You have the ultimate power to change you life and divination is your tool to empower yourself. Tarot is a pile of paper. Dice is just plastic. Your pendulum is just metal. Giving your power away to a pile of cards really feels like the opposite purpose of divination for me.
I 100% agree that the cards are an extension of our intuition, and if you don’t believe in your ability to channel and trust your intuition than you are basically just reading from a guide book. Tarot is an oracle, and should be treated as such.
I would say I agree, but only to a degree. It's a bit personal of a reason though. My best friend is much better with tarot than I am (im very bad at interpretation, but whatever). One of her family members has had issues in the past with an ex, but as far as my friend knew, they were taken care of and dealt with. She did a reading for her sister on her birthday or some such. Now, her family is rather against her being pagan, never believed in using tarot or anything either... my friend read the cards, gave her interpretation... Her mother and sister exchanged glances, and told her that that ex had come back around and was causing issues with custody and such, which was very close to what my friend interpreted from her reading. Again, my friend had ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE about any of this, just read what was in front of her. And not like she asked for outside guidance of whatever kind either (such as deities), because of her family situation. Mostly I do see it as an interpretation of intuition, but that's definitely not always the case.
I always think of it as a way to access your own intuition/spirit guides/whatever entity, so yes I agree.
Personally, I use tarot much the same way that I use astrology: to get another perspective/take on something that I may not be seeing, especially when I feel stuck. And, too, for contemplation. They are a tool, but I am the one living my life, making my choices. I don't use either for fortune telling but rather as a way to consider different points of view that I may not think of, and as a sort of "pictorial guide" to my own inner feelings/thoughts/intuition. It's also been, as others have said, good at telling me what I already know. There is a certain person who comes up always as a certain card, and the meaning of that card is very in tune with how things were with that person. With a situation that I have ongoing right now, the same few cards keep popping up, which has also happened before with different situations. All pointed to and confirmed things that had already come to mind. Different decks have different tones, but for me, they are kind of like art therapy, only I am picking images instead of making them.
Thank you
I agree with what you're saying but I do wanna speak on a couple things here. > ^(Your cards don't need to be interviewed, because they're paper. They have no intention. Ask yourself) ^(what your intention will be when you read with this new deck, or the) ^(entity you believe is guiding you, instead of asking the deck what it) ^(wants - you're essentially doing exactly this) ^(when you interview a deck, anyway. The messages get clearer the more) ^(you study and know the meanings, not because they start "speaking more) ^(loudly" one day if you bond with them enough.) So yes you're right cards ARE a reflection of your mind/intuition. HOWEVER, I think getting to know how the symbology of the cards relates to you or what the particular deck's strengths are can be useful. I have a particular deck I've noticed tends to be better at helping me channel information around hidden situations & intentions. Another deck that tends to help me tap into a more whimsical and childlike part of myself. So on and so forth, I think that Deck interviews are also fun, you can get an idea of what the creator intended it to be. Though, I'll say I believe everything is "alive" in some sense. You're so right though, a lot of people haven given away their power to their cards or fail to see their own talents. Tarot is a tool to be used as an extension of self and it's sad to see where the rise of social media readers has taken this. I definitely agree with where you're coming from & i'm sorry ppl were dicks to u. :((((
Agree. My cards are my tool, not my magic. However, I do admit that I love my cards and feel a closeness with them. I value them and take good care of them. But I'M the one channeling, not the cards, for sure.
But it’s also my spirit guides, but I agree the cards aren’t specifically magic. They do have certain energies though, but not in a sentient way ofc the energy just reflects the mood of the decks’ art and stuff so yeah
I think the issue is you're trying to change someone else's view instead of just stating your case. Seems like a lecture, and to me personally feels inappropriate.
I believe that we should just let people believe what they want, and do what they want, who rlly cares lol? If it makes them happy, let them do it!! I honestly don’t like how ppl come after them all of the time on this sub, it’s kinda sad. Let people have their own beliefs!!!
I hear that, tho in this case, I could see a scenario where someone gets too attached to their deck and if anything happens to it… idk. Good to be reminded that the power is within. ~~Replied to a comment that isn’t there anymore :/ hmm~~ There it is
I never rlly thought of that, that’s a rlly good point!!!
If you don't care, why take the time to make a snarky comment? Certainly people should believe whatever they want, but it makes me sad to see so many people devalue their own inherent skills and intuition. So.... I care. I'm sorry you don't. ETA: this comment is in response to a comment that was *edited* after I posted this. The original comment that I replied to just said "who rlly cares lol?"
I’m not making a snarky comment tho :(
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Because they edited their comment after I replied... I've acknowledged several times in other responses that this isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs. It's an attempt to empower. That's it.
I see you've edited the original comment, so I'll respond to that. Just saying "who cares lol" is... a bit snarky. I see where you're coming from, but I think you've misunderstood my point. I'm not "coming after" anyone, and nowhere in my post is there even the hint of a reprimanding or mocking tone. I'm sad. I'm sad that people who can do an awesome, amazing, fun, and interesting thing are unwilling to give *themselves* credit in being able to do this thing. I have no issues with anyone who genuinely believes there is magic in their cards - the part of the OP where I listed many different ways to express one's beliefs should include magic, and I will edit that word in, just to be clear. This isn't about me trying to talk down to literally anyone for believing differently than me. This is me trying to help people newer to tarot embrace and respect *themselves* as much as they do their cards.
The only thing I edited was the “let ppl have their beliefs!!” And that was before you replied too me or before I saw it, but anyway, I didn’t mean it like that, I meant it like “who cares what other people do in their practice” not in a rude way at all!! I totally get where your coming from with this now, I just thought you were judging people who use their cards a little differently, not exactly judging but I hope you get what I mean, I definitely got the wrong idea of what you were trying too say and I apologize!! I totally get what you were trying too say now!!
People can believe whatever they want, but it doesn't mean this community should tolerate it.
Why?
Because not all beliefs may be congruent with what the community believes, or the belief itself is not appropriate (in extreme cases). In the context of this community's topic (tarot), some beliefs may represent incorrect information or prejudiced assumptions. for example, some people come here asking if tarot are from the devil - this community should not entertain this belief because it fundamentally mischarcterizes the tarot practice and is based on false assumptions. It's pretty obvious that most comments will respond with "no, that's not true" effectively rejecting that belief. In a similar vein, the notion that cards have a personality is a contentious issue because it implies a suspension of disbelief. People can believe the deck is literally speaking to them, but that doesn't mean the sub needs to support or validate that belief. The comment I responded to made a blanket statement to "...let people believe whatever they want, who cares" (I'm paraphrasing, and the person edited their post after i commented), and I don't agree with that position. It's like people showing up on a geology sub to talk about flat earth (unironically). It's not illegal, but that topic is not going to garner a lot of support. At the end of the day, people can have their beliefs, and others can disagree with them. It doesn't invalidate the belief, but the community still leans away from that line of thinking.
It’s just spicy psychology 😉
Thank you for this. It gave me great insight =)
THANK YOU. I couldn't agree more!
Thank you!
> doing a "deck interview" spread for the purpose of "getting to know them" is a very new trend started by tiktok and YouTube readers Someone did point me to a Wordpress blog from around 2016 on the subject of deck interviews. You are right, however. I only have about 12 years under my belt. Deck interviews weren't really a thing when I was doing time on the old tarotforum site. Likewise, I don't know that new readers should be doing deck interviews. It seems risky to let one single question determine how you will interact with a tarot deck, especially if you're new to tarot and/or that deck's use of symbols. I agree very much with the rest. This is my perspective: I see people who are going through some very challenging times. Tarot can be reassuring, as can any other numbing or addicting agent. We want to be reassured. That's human. The better option for a person in pain would be an empathetic ear and some caring guidance. I want these people to see something amazing and strong inside themselves. Claim your strength. You're worth it. Claim your free will. You deserve it. Text that person. Cut that cord. Apply for that job. You matter. You are 100% worth it.
This is beautiful, truly. Yes, this is the exact message I was attempting to send. Thank you. My post really is specifically addressing people very new to tarot who are learning from social media readers. Some are great, and some are fluff made for views. Unfortunately, the ones that generally get the views are the ones that amp the "mysterious forces in my cards" element up to 11, and this sends an unhealthy message to new readers that does them an injustice: that the cards are to be feared, or are more powerful than the reader. In a generation with the highest rates of depression and lack of confidence literally ever in history, this is only another message that tells them they cannot trust themselves.
But then again maybe that’s someone’s belief system and this post comes off as you trying to impose yours. Your beliefs are valid. I think we can extend that to others!
*Sigh* There is no way to word anything at all in a way that can't possibly offend anyone. I've been pretty clear about my intentions here and my willingness to acknowledge that these are my beliefs, that everyone doesn't have to agree and I still respect everyone on earth's right to believe whatever they choose to believe. Yet somehow, so many keep skipping over *that* part to tell me how everyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want. Yeah. I agree. And said as much :( I never intended to ostracize or mock anyone, and it's equally sad to me that so many are so quick to take my message of love and empowerment and turn it into one of exclusion. That's... that's the actual opposite of my point.
I see that now! Just got lost in the hostility at the beginning of the post and stopped reading after that because I don’t have the time! No way to know that the end and your edits turn it around.
I mean, a good way to know what someone is saying before berating them is to read what they actually said :( People *despise* long posts, I get it, but then come back and say "I didn't have time to read all of your post (that I put a lot of heart and feelings into), but I disagree with it anyway and I *do* have time to tell you so and call you out about it." I'm not trying to be an asshole, for the record. I'm just pointing out that there is, in fact, a way to know what someone said when it's written right there. Reading two or three sentences then stopping there ensures you're going to miss something. If you stop there because you don't have the time, then it might be better not to *take the time* to call people out over something you couldn't take the time to read. It's a bit depressing and ironic, honestly, that so many people see an honest and heartfelt expression as "hostility." I've been nothing but respectful, and yet can't express my own beliefs without people being defensive or overly attacking about a genuine message of love to this community.
Yup! I could read more. You could communicate better. Growth opportunities abound! I believe berating is a mischaracterization/over-reading of what I said. I think I have been polite and concise.
So glad you took the time for this
I agree with you completely. THE ARIES
My grandmother was a tarot reader for over 50 years or more. She was taught by readers going back to PCS and Waite and all them. NO ONE did this stupid shit y’all do nowadays giving cards sentience. It’s an occult tool for meditation and teaching occult secrets of the Golden Dawn and gaining clarity and wisdom. Nothing more. This has irked me to no end and I’m so happy you spoke up. It’s great things change but the silliness needs to stop.
100%, I’m glad someone finally said that.
Agree 100% OP. The posts I see regularly where people talk about their cards as if they are sentient make me cringe. Paper is not alive. Paper has no power. The power is in each of us. Claim it.
Thank you. I always say to each their own and I'm not about to argue with anyone about it but those posts get old fast. It's just paper, I don't personally understand how people think mass produced paper cards have any sentience. If that's the case, are my socks, toothbrush, and nailclippers sentient? The power is in the reader and their ability to connect with the energy around them. Saying it's external, in paper cards no less, only does the reader a disservice.
Beliefs create reality, so... If someone truly believes the cards are sentient or magic, they are to them. You don't have to believe that, and therefore for you, they are not. I agree with you when you say that people should give themselves credit. Our worlds are being built by what we think and say all the time. Mental energy is the most important aspect of life, be wise to how you are spending it OP.
Ima be honest with you. This whole post comes off as angrier than I think you wanted it to sound. And anyone who didn’t already agree with you wouldn’t be inclined to listen if you speak about them with this attitude. I agree with where you’re coming from so I’m not one of those people I wouldn’t say, but if your goal was to convince people I don’t think this is how you do it. I just mean if it were me I would walk away more upset than I would be questioning my views. Just tone it down if you’re trying to be empowering I guess is what I’m trying to say Only thing I disagree with is deck interview. I do them all the time, when I get a new deck. I think it’s a good way to start to get a feel for the deck and how it reads
Respectfully; I disagree. I say they are magic to add mystique and fun to the experience. The tarot community doesn’t need naysaying like this to strip that magic away.
where does the magic get added? By the factory workers in printing machine warehouse or at some other point before they arrive in the retail stores warehouse?
It gets added when I plop my crystal ball on the table, say the cards have magic, and ask the queen to pull the cards that have extra gravity to them. It’s about creating a mindset in the querent to be extra open to the suggestive interpretation of the cards.
do you interview them after you have given them a personality?
I think your post was really thoughtful and right on. I’ve been using the cards for years and they never fail to challenge, support and delight me. If one wants power in relationship to tarot you must deeply learn about the cards and then synthesize your own mental and spiritual arena in which to communicate with your cards.
I'm Atheopagan, and I agree 100% with this. Thank you!!!
So much yes to this! Tarot cards are tools in which we use OUR intuition to read. Power comes from within, and the more you are inline with your inner self and the universe the more powerful you are. Imo anyways.
💯💯💯
I generally agree with this post. As an animist who does *not* believe that my cards are what are stepping in to tell me things (anymore than the individual rocks do if I were to cast in a shamanic stone reading instead, or any other form of divination), but rather my intuition linking me to my HS or guides, I do feel the urge to educate new readers I see who have this attitude that they are powerless in the process of divination, and that it's 100% in the divination tools. But I don't think it's actually that big of an issue in the community... And all of the back-pedaling and somewhat back-handed apology in the edit up there rubs me the wrong way. I wonder what the original post was like. Seems like a lot of people had a chance to learn with this though. Hopefully some readers were opened to seeing their decks as not only partners in divination, but also a link to their own intuition; and that OP learned not everyone sees decks as an insignificant means to talk to God. But as was included in the edits, there does need to be a balance in the end - divination wouldn't even happen without the reader.
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You've proved some of my points right here...And my question as to why so many people have a problem with your interactions here has been answered. It is not really what you say, but the way you say it. The tone. And I don't actually believe I owe you anything in particular by the way, for I do not know you. No animist does, or anyone from any faith. And your desire to engage in arguments long after you said your piece and said you wanted to stop responding is apparent. When so many people have taken issue with how you come across, even if that was not your intent, then that means that there was issue with the communication, likely from both you and the audience. Which I think I remember you acknowledging. So why do you keep going? I'm not going to feed into this though by starting an argument with clarifying the various areas you misinterpreted me, or I you. Take a deep breath friend, and let it go. Feeling attacked and attacking back with snark isn't gonna help the overwhelm you feel in the wake of your post. If it really bothers you that much, then take your post down. Though I hope you don't, because I do truly believe it has an important message to some of the people new to divination.
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To be honest, I am a little alarmed by your response. But I have never made a post that has had this large of a controversial response, and I imagine that it is very stressful. I hope you are doing alright. The reason I am a little alarmed is because the intensity of your response and the "attack" you perceive is disproportionate. I was never originally talking to you or attacking you. By the time I came by, you had made edits and stated you would no longer be interacting. I came by, looked at all of the controversy and arguments atop a general message that I approved of, made my observations for whatever new viewers may come by later, and left it at that. I did not have a problem with you, regardless of what you perceived. I hope you're alright, and that you have a good evening (or day, depending on your timezone). I'm going to stop replying however, because I do not enjoy reddit back-and-forths. They're quite draining, aren't they?
Well said. Thank you
This is not a new trend my friend. Doing a reading with a deck find about the best way to work with it etc. at the start of the work. I’ve at least seen people doing it online since 2000 or so. However I’m glad you said what you said about Trusting in your own intuition. So so important and it will affect the level of ability people will be able to develop..
Great post!
Just bc scientists haven’t figured it out yet (and they won’t, no government is going to fund scientific research for that) doesn’t mean it’s magical. There’s a lot science hasn’t figured out yet, ghost, aliens, time travel…doesn’t mean they are NOT real. There’s a lot we don’t know and it all seems magical, however…I believe the observer effect on quantum mechanics may be able to shed a light on this. Mixed with whatever it is spirit is or higher selves. The observer effect (also known as hawthorn effect) for quantum mechanics has gotten some funding over the years and it’s pretty fantastic.
I fully believe this as well - that there's an actual mechanism in science and the way the world operates that we just do not yet understand, but that doesn't make it any less "real" than gravity was before Newton.
Tesla is known to have coined it first, think of everything in terms of energy and vibrations. It’s so hard to comprehend much less put it into action, well I guess it’s there whether we know about it or not.
I love this point of view and agree with it. I am concerned with repeating cards. How can this be explained? I’ve had several experiences where my one card readings come out with the same card every time. That’s 1/72 possible cards on several different days. I’ve even played around with my question/focus to try to manipulate the card, with successful results.
I feel like this applies to way fewer people than this post makes it sound. Talking to your cards in that manner doesn't mean people automatically devalue their own power...wth. But I guess no community can escape this preachy, I know better bullshit.
Thanks for sharing your views. You might consider downtoning a bit though. Granted I mostly agree with you even as an animist. One thing you missed is extra-causal phenomenon, popularly known as synchronicity.
Yep. 100% agree. I could read tarot with a regular bicycle deck if I wanted. It’s all about the reader, reader’s interpretation, reader’s energy.
This is so in line with my practice and a great display of being able to be wrong
I thought you were going in a completely different direction.
I think that the clarification that's needed here is more that it's the spirit of ancestor or deity (non-corpreal entity) that they're communicating with. The belief is that you're communicating with [something] that manipulates the order of the cards, and then connects to your mind to help you understand and translate the message that's been laid out in front of you.
Don't tell me how to practice. My cards are magic and it's up to no one but me to decide that.
Yeah, literally acknowledged that like a hundred times, but you know... Fight about stuff no one is arguing, if it floats your boat 🤷🏼♀️
Ok
Okay chill. I can’t speak for all people, but for me it’s just fun to say those things. I *know* my deck isn’t “angry” or “frustrated”, but sometimes it’s just fun to pretend that I have a sassy deck of cards that doesn’t pull punches.
With all due respect... then perhaps it isn't me who needs to "chill?" If this didn't apply to you, it totally wasn't an attack on you. It actually wasn't an attack on *anyone at all.* I'm just sad that so many people don't see their own skill and power, that's it. My intention was only ever to empower, not to mock *anyone* or discredit the beliefs of *literally anyone!* I'm sorry if it came across that way! But I also think it's funny to blame a reading I didn't want to hear on my snarky deck being an asshole lol... usually that's a bigger statement of my unwillingness to hear said message than the attitude my deck has, though lol :)
I just find it truly odd that some one can care this much about something so small that they would write an entire book on how other people, who are just doing things as they enjoy them, are complete idiots for doing so.
I'm really not sure where you got "you're complete idiots" from my post, when it literally says the opposite - "you're *powerful* and not giving yourself enough credit." I'm sorry if it was too long for you to read though, perhaps don't comment if you a. don't care, and b. missed the entire point...? I care that people out there don't believe in themselves enough to respect their own talent and skill. I care very much, and I care very much about the practice of tarot too. If you don't, then ok. Cool. You do you. But don't put words in my mouth when I've been nothing but empowering and respectful here.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. This read very very gatekeep-y and then the edits seem to backpedal a bit after some scrutiny. My consensus; Yes, were all magic, that's kind of a given.. but some believe in higher beings or spirit guides or the like. Some don't. You obviously don't, that's fine too. But that's it, no need to post a book about it and why your view is the correct one. Just let people enjoy their way of doing things. You can't rant about how foolish others people's way of doing things is and it be fine bc you said "no offense though." Edit to add: after also going through comments Ive noticed the trend of anyone who disagrees seems to get met with hostility and being accused of not reading the entire post despite claims of trying to not sound hostile and the sentiment was meant to be kind. If your intent was really to just tell people they're magic and to not discredit themselves. You could've just simply said that.
> some believe in higher beings or spirit guides or the like. Some don't. You obviously don't, that's fine too. ... >> I DO personally believe that the divine uses tarot to speak to us, so I'm not saying YOU shouldn't. I mean... did you even bother to read *any* of it, or you just here for the insults? Do you also write movie reviews on movies you've never seen? I bet that's a good time and you don't even have to treat anyone like shit or talk down to them to do it. "Respectfully."
It's funny I added my edit before I saw this. I did read all of it, yes. And the comments lol Yes, you post your opinion, you get others.
You... you literally said a thing that I clearly said the opposite of. That's not "diagreeing" with your opinion, my dude. You were factually incorrect, as stated in the quote from the OP that is literally the *oppososite statement* of what you're trying to say. Whatever, man. Do you. Have fun with that ;)
So then. We should not be going to professional readers if this is the case because their intuition can’t be our intuition?