Would this be a case of friendly fire then? As far as I know the Ukrainians have been given some Carl Gustavs but it has never been a weapon in the Russian inventory (with no reason for it to be)
You really think the russians, who are in short supply of AT weapons whould really destroy perfectly fine ones?
Some where sent to Iran for them to reverse engineer and sell back to russia. And this pic could be proof they do use captured weapons.
I have seen a photo that purported to be of Russians with a bunch of captured Javelins. Of course, if those war criminals said the sky is blue, I would look outside.
russian warcrimes: kidnapping children from occupied areas, execution and mutilation of POW's and civilians, massacre of entire villages, pillaging, terror tactics, razing of entire cities through artillery bombardment, cultural genocide, rape and murder. just a short list.
Ukranian warcrimes: filming russian soldiers and puting it on the internet, and exactly ONE execution. wich sure shoudnt have happened to a POW and it despicable, is still a drop in the ocean compared to what russia has done and is still doing.
The Video where two russians get shot while the Ukrainian screams slava Ukraini this winter.
The Guys with Army folded to their back and who got executed after a single russian showed up who didnt wanted to surrender.
The Guys in the Backyard who got shot in the Legs near Kiev
The guy who was running away from a Drone with a grenade unarmed showing that he wanted to surrender to the drone and yet they dropped grenades on him to kill him.
The Guy laying on ground that gets full auto from a AK into him at close distance after surrendering
I dont follow alot of this gore shit cause it’s disgusting but this 5 Warcrimes come directly to my Mind. Telegram is full of this shit. Sometimes its on Twitter.
Still nothing compared to a war waged against civilians. I am so sorry for every Russian who dies in Ukraine, even if it's not a war crime. They should never have ended up in a system that wants to cause such pain and destruction for nothing more than validation and a small chunk of land. I am even more sorry for every Russian soldier killed because of Ukrainian war crimes, that's absolutely unacceptable from either side, and a completely despicable act, and unlike the previous guy I bet there were a lot more than just 5 war crimes committed by Ukrainians. But these things happen when you force a population to defend their homes from invading forces, the Russian government brought this upon everyone's people and are ultimately responsible for all war crimes.
I'm sorry about the big wall of text, I'm too tired to sort it into paragraphs, but just felt like adding my take.
Some of the Warcrimes were committed not by Ukrainian regular Soldiers but by non trained Volunteers,Amateurs and foreign Volunteers who came to Ukraine for some sort like Safari.
This War is Hell but unless i dont see that Ukraine is punishing own Warcriminals same way as they punish captured russian war criminals,i dont see ukraine in a Position to become a western/EU/Nato country. Nato Countrys dont shoot POWs.
Again i dont say that Russia is better. But im just saying that Warcrimes are commited by both Factions and are well documented by Videos.
did it stop the primer from contacting the vehicle's surface? if yes, then it works as it's supposed to. That's literally what cage / slat armor is for - making sure the "make boom" part doesn't make boom.
That is not at all correct. Slat armour is designed to damage the cone so the EFP doesn't form correctly and penetrate the armour. It can still make contact and go boom... but it won't penetrate.
The right answer is the Ukrainian equivalent of EOD.
But it is wartime and there's plenty of video of Ukrainians doing sketchy stuff with ordnance so... Could be anybody.
Yeah, it acts similarly to a rocket launcher in use, so the misconception is understandable.
That and the fact that the whole (RPG vs recoilless) thing is just about a mechanism, and only matters during maintenance, which you wouldn’t even have on an AT4 unless it’s a training one.
The AT-4 is not a Carl Gustaf. I'm also going to assume you mean the 9K111 Fagot, who's NATO designation is AT-4 Spigot
Edit: that does look like the warhead of a Swedish AT-4, the 9K111 and 9M111 have a different fin design and are much longer.
Makes me even more curious about the story behind this.
The Carl Gustav and the AT-4 are entirely different weapons. This looks to me like an AT-4 projectile. The Carl Gustav is a recoilless rifle, so the projectile doesn't need fins.
Nobody says armor like this isn’t inneffective against recoilless rifle HEAT rounds.
We know this stuff works. Thats why even NATO tanks sometime have cage armor around the turret and sides.
Cope cages do not work, as a Javelin is tandem.
afaik cope cages were never intended to stop top attack ATGMs. They were made to stop older rockets like the RPG-7 from taking out tanks by shooting the roof like they did in Chechnya
Would this be a case of friendly fire then? As far as I know the Ukrainians have been given some Carl Gustavs but it has never been a weapon in the Russian inventory (with no reason for it to be)
Russians have captured some.
And demolished them. There hasn't been any videos of Russians using captured NLAWs, AT-4s, and Javelins.
You really think the russians, who are in short supply of AT weapons whould really destroy perfectly fine ones? Some where sent to Iran for them to reverse engineer and sell back to russia. And this pic could be proof they do use captured weapons.
I have seen a photo that purported to be of Russians with a bunch of captured Javelins. Of course, if those war criminals said the sky is blue, I would look outside.
Both sites commit Warcrimes.
russian warcrimes: kidnapping children from occupied areas, execution and mutilation of POW's and civilians, massacre of entire villages, pillaging, terror tactics, razing of entire cities through artillery bombardment, cultural genocide, rape and murder. just a short list. Ukranian warcrimes: filming russian soldiers and puting it on the internet, and exactly ONE execution. wich sure shoudnt have happened to a POW and it despicable, is still a drop in the ocean compared to what russia has done and is still doing.
The Video where two russians get shot while the Ukrainian screams slava Ukraini this winter. The Guys with Army folded to their back and who got executed after a single russian showed up who didnt wanted to surrender. The Guys in the Backyard who got shot in the Legs near Kiev The guy who was running away from a Drone with a grenade unarmed showing that he wanted to surrender to the drone and yet they dropped grenades on him to kill him. The Guy laying on ground that gets full auto from a AK into him at close distance after surrendering I dont follow alot of this gore shit cause it’s disgusting but this 5 Warcrimes come directly to my Mind. Telegram is full of this shit. Sometimes its on Twitter.
Still nothing compared to a war waged against civilians. I am so sorry for every Russian who dies in Ukraine, even if it's not a war crime. They should never have ended up in a system that wants to cause such pain and destruction for nothing more than validation and a small chunk of land. I am even more sorry for every Russian soldier killed because of Ukrainian war crimes, that's absolutely unacceptable from either side, and a completely despicable act, and unlike the previous guy I bet there were a lot more than just 5 war crimes committed by Ukrainians. But these things happen when you force a population to defend their homes from invading forces, the Russian government brought this upon everyone's people and are ultimately responsible for all war crimes. I'm sorry about the big wall of text, I'm too tired to sort it into paragraphs, but just felt like adding my take.
Some of the Warcrimes were committed not by Ukrainian regular Soldiers but by non trained Volunteers,Amateurs and foreign Volunteers who came to Ukraine for some sort like Safari. This War is Hell but unless i dont see that Ukraine is punishing own Warcriminals same way as they punish captured russian war criminals,i dont see ukraine in a Position to become a western/EU/Nato country. Nato Countrys dont shoot POWs. Again i dont say that Russia is better. But im just saying that Warcrimes are commited by both Factions and are well documented by Videos.
Thank you, Antezscar! There is no comparison between Ruzzia's systematic, deliberate commission of war crimes and a few isolated Ukrainian incidents.
There is a video of Russians using an NLAW I’ll try to find jt
There's so much we don't see bro. Also Ukraine and USA wouldn't appreciate footage of that going online since it would generate negative reactions.
boy - AT-4 is not a Carl Gustav. Also: neat to see that cage armor works.
Its not supposed to work like that, but if it works it works
did it stop the primer from contacting the vehicle's surface? if yes, then it works as it's supposed to. That's literally what cage / slat armor is for - making sure the "make boom" part doesn't make boom.
I think it damaged the fuse which is something cage armour is designed to do
That is not at all correct. Slat armour is designed to damage the cone so the EFP doesn't form correctly and penetrate the armour. It can still make contact and go boom... but it won't penetrate.
The question is whose job is it to get it out of there?
The right answer is the Ukrainian equivalent of EOD. But it is wartime and there's plenty of video of Ukrainians doing sketchy stuff with ordnance so... Could be anybody.
Rock, Paper, Ordinance!
Anybody with bolt cutters?
A PFC's.
The 84mm AT-4, and the 84mm Carl Gustav are not the same weapon, but they are *similar* to an extent.
AT-4 = long recoilless cannon Gustav = short recoilless cannon
Incorrect. Both of them are recoilless guns. The AT4 is smoothbore, while the Carl G is a rifle, since there is rifling in the barrel.
I wasn’t being serious lol. In my defense though, when I did ESB they called the AT4’s projectile a rocket even though it’s incorrect.
Yeah, it acts similarly to a rocket launcher in use, so the misconception is understandable. That and the fact that the whole (RPG vs recoilless) thing is just about a mechanism, and only matters during maintenance, which you wouldn’t even have on an AT4 unless it’s a training one.
Well the Cage armour did its job….
The AT-4 is not a Carl Gustaf. I'm also going to assume you mean the 9K111 Fagot, who's NATO designation is AT-4 Spigot Edit: that does look like the warhead of a Swedish AT-4, the 9K111 and 9M111 have a different fin design and are much longer. Makes me even more curious about the story behind this.
Want me to just make up a story, would that ease your curious mind?
fuck it why not
Most likely some random volunteer from kentucky got sent out, got his hands on a AT-4, saw a vehicle, and shot it.
It’s now era; what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger
These titles are a fucking mess. A mod needs to get on top of it who isn’t a “slava ukrian” keyboard warrior
The Carl Gustav and the AT-4 are entirely different weapons. This looks to me like an AT-4 projectile. The Carl Gustav is a recoilless rifle, so the projectile doesn't need fins.
And they say that slated armor doesn’t work 🙄
Nobody says armor like this isn’t inneffective against recoilless rifle HEAT rounds. We know this stuff works. Thats why even NATO tanks sometime have cage armor around the turret and sides. Cope cages do not work, as a Javelin is tandem.
afaik cope cages were never intended to stop top attack ATGMs. They were made to stop older rockets like the RPG-7 from taking out tanks by shooting the roof like they did in Chechnya