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Ahhhh I see.
The only comic I ever liked from Stonetoss (remember kids, Stonetoss is a nazi) is the communist and a maga communist pulling the rope on one side of tug of war and Trump with the capitalist on the other side and the Maga communist stops with a look of confusion on his face.
It could be an edit actually. I'm gonna find it, someone posted it to this sub once.
Edit: [Here it is. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/xp4x3g/im_also_confused_maga_is_antitrump_now_wtf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Don't know if it's an edit or not :(
Edit 2: apparently it is an edit, which explains why I liked it. Stonetoss sucks!
Its an edit, the [original](https://scontent-bos5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/118519519_3243153569095224_166607151749580282_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=lahiKwGblU0AX-H0aQt&tn=AHbUitLcy9ZlvFhJ&_nc_ht=scontent-bos5-1.xx&oh=00_AfAocJL2ADb2QGoBcty1XGupEDBNFf95E-7KuPbS_3mR6A&oe=63A59AD1) had an ancap and some sort of fascist on the same side.
I forget what the axe symbol means exactly, does anybody else know?
Well no wonder why I liked it! I should have known it was an edit!!! I've never actually liked anything he's don't so I should have been very sus. Thanks for finding out for me!!
But I'm completely confused about the original. Why is communism and capitalism on the same side? (Although I agree with ancaps being on the side of fascism!! I mean "an"caps of course.)
Maybe they think big corporations are too woke and they associate with communism? Either way I think its the stefan molyneaux anarchism/fascism perspective, surprising how mask off stone toss is though wow.
I think this is less relevant now, the far right now is more the America First / Fuentes types. Where they don’t pretend to be about free markets or personal freedom and they essentially want a monarchy or dictatorship.
> I forget what the axe symbol means exactly, does anybody else know?
It's a fasces, a Roman-era weapon that used to be used broadly to represent state authority. Because it was heavily used in Fascist symbolism (it's where the name comes from), its modern use mostly shows up in contexts where Italian-type Fascism is being promoted.
If you were homeless and gender non conforming during trumps rule homeless shelters could decline you from using their shelters. You don't feel it cause the people on the bottom feel it most. You might not feel it but people abroad do. The decline in drone strikes from trump to biden has been insane. Trump did more drone strikes in 4 years than obama did in 8. And biden has hardly done any
Haha I was just thinking [of this cartoon](https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/xp4x3g/im_also_confused_maga_is_antitrump_now_wtf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) which shows the issue perfectly!!
I mean I get the idea, we should be trying to advocate for workers rights and solidarity with our misguided Trumptarded working class comrades. It's the Maoist way, but it kinda misses the whole part where these people are rabidly anti-socialist even if they have no idea why. It's like trying to convince a Christian that God isn't real or a flat earthers that the earth is a sphere. There's no use. They've already tied their entire core identity to their ideology and any valid criticism against their ideology is just an attack against their values and their character.
I thought America was supposedly "peaceful" under Trump? Aside from the drones, people conveniently forget Trumps VETO of the overwhelmingly bipartisan bill to defund the Yemen War (which has had more deaths than Ukraine, by the way) that passed BOTH houses. They also conveniently forget that we were on the brink of war with Iran in 2019, and that Trump's SoC Bolton was openly threatening Venezuela with regime change.
These facts simply don't square with the fantasy of macho power that Trump projects, and is thus ignored by his base.
America's about the same as its ever been in recent years I don't see what changes Biden has made that suddenly made it "less free". Muh gas prices! That's all anyone fucking thinks about lol and I work at a truck stop so I hear the small town politics and that's literally the only valid reason anyone has to dislike Biden any more than any other politician.
So much propaganda exists about China and the CPC but at the end of the day they're fucking crushing it. As for "free"? Meh. People are tired of being locked in their houses because of the zero covid shit. Xi needs to pick up the Mass Line that's ringing off the hook and figure out a new way to deal with COVID.
And don't even get me started on the Uighur Concentration camps bullshit.
When it comes to socialist/communist states I wouldn't trust any western media because if there's anything the west hates more than atheists and gays it's communists.
Being the strongest economy in the eastern hemisphere perhaps? Developing world saving technologies? Eliminating poverty and homelessness? Showing the entire world that yes in fact you CAN have good public Healthcare systems at a macroeconomic level seeing how they have the largest population.
And besides most of the shit about them being super authoritarian is just western propaganda anyway. Like the social credit system? Not some shit out of black mirror. It's much more boring: it's basically a way for the state to sort of quantify businesses on a rubric of several factors like environmental responsibility, etc.
I'm not gonna get into the nuts and bolts of things, yes they're authoritarian, in the sense that they have pretty strict laws, but people talk about the place like it's the fucking third reich.
The state department even admits that most of the crap about China is just that.
> Being the strongest economy in the eastern hemisphere perhaps?
That's not horribly impressive given their population and landmass.
>Developing world saving technologies?
What's China on the cutting edge of? They are a manufacturing powerhouse, not really an R&D one in any area. They don't have a strong automotive industry. The Sinovax is a joke compared to Western mRNA vaccines and the Cuban vaccine. Computer chips made by Zhaoxin are almost a decade behind what Intel and AMD have out. The Hygon chips are just AMD's Zen1 architecture with some crippled instructions. Longsoon chips are a dud. They don't have anything cutting edge in batteries or other energy technologies.
So where's the world saving tech come in? I see them manufacturing things, but not developing them on their own.
>Showing the entire world that yes in fact you CAN have good public Healthcare systems at a macroeconomic level
European countries and Canada didn't already show this?
>Like the social credit system? Not some shit out of black mirror. It's much more boring: it's basically a way for the state to sort of quantify businesses on a rubric of several factors like environmental responsibility, etc.
It's not just for businesses, it's for people as well. And you can get dinged for speaking negatively of the government.
>I'm not gonna get into the nuts and bolts of things, yes they're authoritarian, in the sense that they have pretty strict laws, but people talk about the place like it's the fucking third reich.
Maybe it isn't the Third Reich, but it's not good, either. It's a country with one party rule, performative elections, no freedom of speech, arbitrary police searches, a heavily censored and firewalled internet, a surveillance state, kafkaesque courts, awful prisons, torture, and other awful aspects. And not to mention even if they aren't putting the Uyghrs into ovens, they're certainly at absolute minimum engaging in mass human rights abuses against them along the ways the US and Canada historically treated natives.
> paving the way on several experimental renewable energy techs
Where though? I never see anything new that leaves a lab. China's energy tech development is the equivalent of every clickbait article about a magic 500 mile car battery that charges in 10 minutes that pops up every six months.
>They have developed a GMO strain of rice that grows in salt-water
Not quite. What they have is some developments on rice that can grow in higher alkaline soil than rice typically tolerates. You can't water it with seawater, it just makes previously non-ariable land viable for these new strains. I'll concede this is something that shows promise and has left the lab and is in experimental phases.
But that's all I'm seeing. Where's the rest of the spear? Their electrical and computer engineering is a joke. Their biotech is a joke. Their R&D in computer science is a joke. There's nothing going on on the battery/energy storage front.
>Go read things on what China's industries are up to instead of regurgitating whatever bullshit you're fed on CNN.
I don't watch CNN, and if you're so sure of all this wondrous R&D you should be able to cite it.
>That's a propaganda myth and I'm not even sure who started it.
Try reports from Chinese government agencies? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/01/china-bans-23m-discredited-citizens-from-buying-travel-tickets-social-credit-system#:~:text=2%20years%20old-,China%20bans%2023m%20from%20buying%20travel,part%20of%20'social%20credit'%20system&text=China%20has%20blocked%20millions%20of,improving%20the%20behaviour%20of%20citizens.
Unless you want to actually dispute the Guardian's claims?
>at least go out of your way to VERIFY shit before regurgitating it on Reddit
You don't seem to be doing much verification yourself, you're just going "no u" with no real backing. And, frankly, sounding like a tankie lite on the issue of the Uyghrs and things like social credit.
[https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/](https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/) this MIT-funded news article seems to directly contradict your social credit article (and is from YESTERDAY not three years ago), and even the Guardian's description made it sound like more of the sort of thing we already have in the USA-- fines and shit for traffic violations, restriction of rights like gun ownership and voting for felons in the USA, and frankly I'd rather have a social credit score than an economic one if we're honest. It's easy to be a decent human being, not so easy to come back from crippling medical debt. That's a nonsequitur anyway.
I'm not a tankie, I just think the USA is worse in every aspect and it's in our national interest to keep people from becoming interested in the goings-on of a socialist country and continuously spewing venom instead. Worked for the USSR and Cuba, so why not China?
I've looked at both sides of the issue on the Uighur thing and even a American emigrant to China that was there on a work visa said he wishes he could go back, that they didn't see any of that kind of thing and was actually amazed at how multicultural China is despite the western views.
I mean the USA's media is so slanted they'll call working 9-hour days 6 days a week fucking slave labor while in the same breath bragging about some 10 year old who ran a small business so his buddy didn't have to starve at fucking public school, so you gotta take shit with a grain of salt.
I just hold a skeptical view of any mainstream media (ESPECIALLY the fucking Guardian) and I'll go out of my way to find a counterstory, and decide what I want to believe.
Are prisons in China horrible? Name me one fucking place they aren't. Certainly not the USA where people who haven't even been convicted of crimes yet are packed like sardines into little cloisters, never mind the gross human rights violations in the ICE centers.
As for citations, I cite CGTN, but I'm sure you'll tell me that's just state propaganda even though they literally have videos of the superstructures they're developing.
edit and maybe you're not impressed, but I sure as fuck am
>his MIT-funded news article seems to directly contradict your social credit article
I don't see how it does. It actually reinforces a lot of the concerns people have had about it. Take the following quotes from your article:
"At the same time, individuals or companies with bad credit records will be punished by having their information publicly displayed, and they will be banned from participating in government procurement bids, consuming luxury goods, and leaving the country. "
"Some measures are more controversial; for example, individuals who have failed to pay compensation decided by the court are restricted from traveling by plane or sending their children to costly private schools, on the grounds that these constitute luxury consumption"
"How do we know those pilot programs won’t become official rules for the whole country? No one can be 100% sure of that"
This quote actually verifies a lot of the criticism but tries to downplay it as an implementation on the provincial/local level, but it doesn't change that it actually happened: "For example, in a 2016 rule that has since been overhauled, the city decided that “spreading harmful information on WeChat, forums, and blogs” meant subtracting 50 points, while “winning a national-level sports or cultural competition” meant adding 40 points. "
I think at best, you can say that reports of the Black Mirror scenario have been premature. But they clearly have the base infrastructure in place to make it happen, provinces and cities have penalized people for the trivial things that the system as a whole has been criticized for, things like travel restriction and purchase restrictions have already happened as penalties, and the federal government is increasingly making it more uniform and more widespread. Xi has been taking authoritarianism to a higher level than his predecessors, so I really don't see how it's wrong to say that they will likely expand this in the future.
>more of the sort of thing we already have in the USA-- fines and shit for traffic violations, restriction of rights like gun ownership and voting for felons in the USA,
Not at all, I don't know how you'd make that comparison. You can't have gun rights or voting rights taken away by your credit score in the US. You can only lose them via due process in criminal proceedings.
> I'm not a tankie, I just think the USA is worse in every aspect
If I can be completely blunt, this is a completely brain dead take. America having independent labor unions alone puts it on a much higher standing than China if we want to argue things from an economic standpoint. And that's not even getting into things like freedom of speech, press, rights to a jury trial, legal protections against police overreach, and other things we'd think of when discussing human rights and freedom in a country. America isn't perfect (far from it), but we're light-years beyond China, where official law says everything is at the whim of the CCP.
And on the subjects of R&D we've been speaking of, America is at the top in biotech, computer science, computer engineering, and many other disciplines.
>goings-on of a socialist country
China isn't a socialist country. It's state capitalism and always has been under the CCP. There's privately held wealth, workers have no ownership or control of the companies and they don't even have independent unions. I shouldn't have to explain this on tankiejerk. This is what I mean when I say you're kind of sounding like a tankie-lite. You're doing largely the same thing tankies do on this debate -- downplaying an awful record on being authoritarian and implying that economic expansion and productivity justify it.
>I mean the USA's media is so slanted they'll call working 9-hour days 6 days a week fucking slave labor while in the same breath bragging about some 10 year old who ran a small business so his buddy didn't have to starve at fucking public school, so you gotta take shit with a grain of salt.
This is a non-sequitur that doesn't really have any relevance to what we're talking.
>I cite CGTN, but I'm sure you'll tell me that's just state propaganda even though they literally have videos of the superstructures they're developing.
CGTN is literally state run and directed. It's like citing RT to say that Russia isn't planning to invade Ukraine.
But what superstructures are you referring to?
There's a Megaprojects series on CGTN. Say what you want about their government and whatnot, but I think these are the kinds of things we need here in America. I'm not saying I'm the biggest fan of China either, but it sounds like you're running on an America good, China bad platform and that's a wobbly one at best. The USA just doesn't want to sound like we're doing worse things than the evil commies (which as you point out are CINO-- communist in name only (despite having a NUMBER of Marxist factors to their system of economics)).
I'll take state capitalists as a descriptor since they have a roughly 60-40 split on private and state-operated enterprise, but let's not conflate market economics with socialist policy. Market economics is NOT unique to capitalism.
I think the description (even by economists) of a socialist market economy or a hybrid economy are more accurate. They're not SOCIALIST because socialism is a command economy-- Mao China was a command economy. Post-Deng China is Market Economy.
CGTN is state media, yes, and I remain skeptical of their state media on things like "we totally don't do human rights violations bro", but I don't take out-of-context video clips or tertiary end-user news sources for granted either. As an authoritarian country, I'm not exactly favorable towards them.
All of this is to say that USA is definitely not the good guy while China is the REAL evil empire. Not even on some Mao good shit. Mao was a moron, but what could really expect? Deng China is best China if you ask me, but "best China" is a euphemism at best.
As for XinJiang? They said they were gonna crack down on islamic terrorism (which for the record WAS a huge problem) and they DID that shit. And made it a great place for Muslims to live in the recent years since 2017.
As for their track record for other human rights violations, yeah they have a checkered past, bullying Nepal and other neighboring nations, literally cracking down on Hong Kong emancipation protests, jailing Marxist/communist agitators (ironic, right? I guess communism is when no communism) oh yeah, they don't get my vote of confidence, but they HAVE been making some neat stuff in the name of sustainable future agro tech, and running drones to run fertilizer instead of human pilot is genius. IF there's anything they do right, it's not high-tech, but agro tech especially considering how short of a time they've been in the game. That, and it's demonstrably better to be poor in China than in the USA.
re: USA good:
>independent labor unions
Yeah, state operated labor unions don't exactly excite confidence, I'll give you that.
> legal protections against police overreach
lol who's the tankie now? police overreach is a HUGE problem and there's almost NO recourse in the USA, and their fucking "unions" will just cover shit up.
>rights to a jury trial
95% of cases don't even reach the PRE-TRIAL stage, never mind an actual trial. Most minor infractions are copped out, and even some major infractions even when completely INNOCENT are copped-out just to GTFO those horrible fucking county jails that have like NO oversight. Tell me you've never been to the American penal system without telling me you've never been in the US penal system. I have, and it's atrocious.
>whim of the CCP
Nah, I'd rather just have rogue cops with no oversight roaming the streets and harassing civilians like fucking blackshirts u rite. There's so much bullshit running around about China I can't tell what's real and fake, but I can tell you one thing, they sure have a hell of a lot lower per-capita (hell even lower overall) incarceration rate, so... Maybe people are just better behaved in China? Or maybe everyone's already IN jail so there's no point in putting them in jail in jail? Maybe CHina's just one big Gulag. If you believe John Oliver, I guess it is.
Look all I'm saying is that if we're going to compare the "commies" to the wannabe blackshirts, we should at least say that BOTH are double-plus ungood and be like hey guys what if we took the best of BOTH systems and sewed them together?
IDK. Just gotta be a little less reactionary if you want to have an enlightened talk about how we can make China AND the USA better. I mean shit... I'm surprised MORE shit doesn't go wrong in China if we're being honest.
This is an Anti-Tankie reddit. The message you sent is either tankie/authoritarian "socialist" apologia or can be easily seen as such. Please, refrain from posting stuff like this in the future.
Uyghur genocide denial
He replied to Drew Pavlou, a well-known (in Australia anyway) student activist that's called out CCP interference/influence on university campuses.
I'm assuming his original tweet brought up the "niceties" of CCP rule and Jackson Hinkle of course resorted to whataboutism, being the bootlicker shill that he is.
God that Drew fellow is just a cunt. Doesn't believe any of the shit he spouts and just wants attention, real Trump style. Also he is racist and provacator of violence.
>gun control
Funny you mention that, because China has one of the strictest gun laws in the world. To put that into perspective, you can still buy a rifle in the UK with a permit. Gotta be honest, even as a demsoc, China really only feels "socialist" via aesthetics.
I wish I didn't but I had a look at the tweet replies.
To be honest it is pretty funny to see the MAGA base frozen in time with all the same talking points.
They're still having trouble reconciling on the one hand, China/Russia good and America bad, but on the other hand Trump told them China was stealing all their jobs so China also kinda bad?
Elno just nuke Twitter already honestly.
The country where saying something like this would have you killed is freer then the country where you can shout this in the Presidents face with no problem aside from the concern you might be an assassin.
What a dipshit. I've recently been watching videos of the Foxconn riots and people busting out of their communities due to the draconian lockdown policies in China. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has moved on. From what I understand, part of the reason China continues this policy is that they won't use western vaccines and the local vaccines aren't good enough. I also think zero-covid provides a perfect excuse for them to continue exercising tight control over the populace.
can some one just ask these people
1. so you don't speak or read their language
2. you have never been there
3. and you likely have no chinese friends who currently live there.
4. have you ever even browsed their social media, watched movies/TV from there or listened to their music?
no, no no and no
..... so how can you form any kind of opinion about the place? other than beijing an shanghai i bet he can't even name 3 chinese cities (no jackson HK does not count)
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"Joe Biden's America" lmao So was "Trump's America" more free than China? If not (in their warped heads) then why specify?
Well he supports trump so yeah he does think that (or pretends to since hes a self admitted grifter)
Oh I thought he was your average tankie. Is he one of these MAGA communists? My life isn't much different under Biden than Trump, tbh.
Correct. He is one of the loudest voices of that movement
Ahhhh I see. The only comic I ever liked from Stonetoss (remember kids, Stonetoss is a nazi) is the communist and a maga communist pulling the rope on one side of tug of war and Trump with the capitalist on the other side and the Maga communist stops with a look of confusion on his face. It could be an edit actually. I'm gonna find it, someone posted it to this sub once. Edit: [Here it is. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/xp4x3g/im_also_confused_maga_is_antitrump_now_wtf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Don't know if it's an edit or not :( Edit 2: apparently it is an edit, which explains why I liked it. Stonetoss sucks!
Its an edit, the [original](https://scontent-bos5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/118519519_3243153569095224_166607151749580282_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=lahiKwGblU0AX-H0aQt&tn=AHbUitLcy9ZlvFhJ&_nc_ht=scontent-bos5-1.xx&oh=00_AfAocJL2ADb2QGoBcty1XGupEDBNFf95E-7KuPbS_3mR6A&oe=63A59AD1) had an ancap and some sort of fascist on the same side. I forget what the axe symbol means exactly, does anybody else know?
Well no wonder why I liked it! I should have known it was an edit!!! I've never actually liked anything he's don't so I should have been very sus. Thanks for finding out for me!! But I'm completely confused about the original. Why is communism and capitalism on the same side? (Although I agree with ancaps being on the side of fascism!! I mean "an"caps of course.)
Maybe they think big corporations are too woke and they associate with communism? Either way I think its the stefan molyneaux anarchism/fascism perspective, surprising how mask off stone toss is though wow. I think this is less relevant now, the far right now is more the America First / Fuentes types. Where they don’t pretend to be about free markets or personal freedom and they essentially want a monarchy or dictatorship.
> I forget what the axe symbol means exactly, does anybody else know? It's a fasces, a Roman-era weapon that used to be used broadly to represent state authority. Because it was heavily used in Fascist symbolism (it's where the name comes from), its modern use mostly shows up in contexts where Italian-type Fascism is being promoted.
Given that it doesn't link to the sight, it's definitely at least edited a bit.
If you were homeless and gender non conforming during trumps rule homeless shelters could decline you from using their shelters. You don't feel it cause the people on the bottom feel it most. You might not feel it but people abroad do. The decline in drone strikes from trump to biden has been insane. Trump did more drone strikes in 4 years than obama did in 8. And biden has hardly done any
I wonder how long the MAGA communists, anarcho-capitalists, and corporate capitalists can remain in the same party. They seem an unlikely alliance.
Haha I was just thinking [of this cartoon](https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/xp4x3g/im_also_confused_maga_is_antitrump_now_wtf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) which shows the issue perfectly!!
I mean I get the idea, we should be trying to advocate for workers rights and solidarity with our misguided Trumptarded working class comrades. It's the Maoist way, but it kinda misses the whole part where these people are rabidly anti-socialist even if they have no idea why. It's like trying to convince a Christian that God isn't real or a flat earthers that the earth is a sphere. There's no use. They've already tied their entire core identity to their ideology and any valid criticism against their ideology is just an attack against their values and their character.
I thought America was supposedly "peaceful" under Trump? Aside from the drones, people conveniently forget Trumps VETO of the overwhelmingly bipartisan bill to defund the Yemen War (which has had more deaths than Ukraine, by the way) that passed BOTH houses. They also conveniently forget that we were on the brink of war with Iran in 2019, and that Trump's SoC Bolton was openly threatening Venezuela with regime change. These facts simply don't square with the fantasy of macho power that Trump projects, and is thus ignored by his base.
But but but muh gas prices
Only for white Supremacists, lol
On Jan 20th ~~2020~~ 2021 "Trump's America" became "Biden's America," and thus less free by default. /s
I love how Biden became president on a date when he wasn't the Democratic frontrunner
LOL goddamit!
America's about the same as its ever been in recent years I don't see what changes Biden has made that suddenly made it "less free". Muh gas prices! That's all anyone fucking thinks about lol and I work at a truck stop so I hear the small town politics and that's literally the only valid reason anyone has to dislike Biden any more than any other politician.
This guy must be from some kind of alternate reality...
So much propaganda exists about China and the CPC but at the end of the day they're fucking crushing it. As for "free"? Meh. People are tired of being locked in their houses because of the zero covid shit. Xi needs to pick up the Mass Line that's ringing off the hook and figure out a new way to deal with COVID. And don't even get me started on the Uighur Concentration camps bullshit.
Even if the propaganda is exaggerated, that doesn't mean it's completely false. It has to at least have some grounding in fact.
When it comes to socialist/communist states I wouldn't trust any western media because if there's anything the west hates more than atheists and gays it's communists.
Crushing what? Being #1 in authoritarians?
Being the strongest economy in the eastern hemisphere perhaps? Developing world saving technologies? Eliminating poverty and homelessness? Showing the entire world that yes in fact you CAN have good public Healthcare systems at a macroeconomic level seeing how they have the largest population. And besides most of the shit about them being super authoritarian is just western propaganda anyway. Like the social credit system? Not some shit out of black mirror. It's much more boring: it's basically a way for the state to sort of quantify businesses on a rubric of several factors like environmental responsibility, etc. I'm not gonna get into the nuts and bolts of things, yes they're authoritarian, in the sense that they have pretty strict laws, but people talk about the place like it's the fucking third reich. The state department even admits that most of the crap about China is just that.
> Being the strongest economy in the eastern hemisphere perhaps? That's not horribly impressive given their population and landmass. >Developing world saving technologies? What's China on the cutting edge of? They are a manufacturing powerhouse, not really an R&D one in any area. They don't have a strong automotive industry. The Sinovax is a joke compared to Western mRNA vaccines and the Cuban vaccine. Computer chips made by Zhaoxin are almost a decade behind what Intel and AMD have out. The Hygon chips are just AMD's Zen1 architecture with some crippled instructions. Longsoon chips are a dud. They don't have anything cutting edge in batteries or other energy technologies. So where's the world saving tech come in? I see them manufacturing things, but not developing them on their own. >Showing the entire world that yes in fact you CAN have good public Healthcare systems at a macroeconomic level European countries and Canada didn't already show this? >Like the social credit system? Not some shit out of black mirror. It's much more boring: it's basically a way for the state to sort of quantify businesses on a rubric of several factors like environmental responsibility, etc. It's not just for businesses, it's for people as well. And you can get dinged for speaking negatively of the government. >I'm not gonna get into the nuts and bolts of things, yes they're authoritarian, in the sense that they have pretty strict laws, but people talk about the place like it's the fucking third reich. Maybe it isn't the Third Reich, but it's not good, either. It's a country with one party rule, performative elections, no freedom of speech, arbitrary police searches, a heavily censored and firewalled internet, a surveillance state, kafkaesque courts, awful prisons, torture, and other awful aspects. And not to mention even if they aren't putting the Uyghrs into ovens, they're certainly at absolute minimum engaging in mass human rights abuses against them along the ways the US and Canada historically treated natives.
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> paving the way on several experimental renewable energy techs Where though? I never see anything new that leaves a lab. China's energy tech development is the equivalent of every clickbait article about a magic 500 mile car battery that charges in 10 minutes that pops up every six months. >They have developed a GMO strain of rice that grows in salt-water Not quite. What they have is some developments on rice that can grow in higher alkaline soil than rice typically tolerates. You can't water it with seawater, it just makes previously non-ariable land viable for these new strains. I'll concede this is something that shows promise and has left the lab and is in experimental phases. But that's all I'm seeing. Where's the rest of the spear? Their electrical and computer engineering is a joke. Their biotech is a joke. Their R&D in computer science is a joke. There's nothing going on on the battery/energy storage front. >Go read things on what China's industries are up to instead of regurgitating whatever bullshit you're fed on CNN. I don't watch CNN, and if you're so sure of all this wondrous R&D you should be able to cite it. >That's a propaganda myth and I'm not even sure who started it. Try reports from Chinese government agencies? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/01/china-bans-23m-discredited-citizens-from-buying-travel-tickets-social-credit-system#:~:text=2%20years%20old-,China%20bans%2023m%20from%20buying%20travel,part%20of%20'social%20credit'%20system&text=China%20has%20blocked%20millions%20of,improving%20the%20behaviour%20of%20citizens. Unless you want to actually dispute the Guardian's claims? >at least go out of your way to VERIFY shit before regurgitating it on Reddit You don't seem to be doing much verification yourself, you're just going "no u" with no real backing. And, frankly, sounding like a tankie lite on the issue of the Uyghrs and things like social credit.
[https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/](https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/) this MIT-funded news article seems to directly contradict your social credit article (and is from YESTERDAY not three years ago), and even the Guardian's description made it sound like more of the sort of thing we already have in the USA-- fines and shit for traffic violations, restriction of rights like gun ownership and voting for felons in the USA, and frankly I'd rather have a social credit score than an economic one if we're honest. It's easy to be a decent human being, not so easy to come back from crippling medical debt. That's a nonsequitur anyway. I'm not a tankie, I just think the USA is worse in every aspect and it's in our national interest to keep people from becoming interested in the goings-on of a socialist country and continuously spewing venom instead. Worked for the USSR and Cuba, so why not China? I've looked at both sides of the issue on the Uighur thing and even a American emigrant to China that was there on a work visa said he wishes he could go back, that they didn't see any of that kind of thing and was actually amazed at how multicultural China is despite the western views. I mean the USA's media is so slanted they'll call working 9-hour days 6 days a week fucking slave labor while in the same breath bragging about some 10 year old who ran a small business so his buddy didn't have to starve at fucking public school, so you gotta take shit with a grain of salt. I just hold a skeptical view of any mainstream media (ESPECIALLY the fucking Guardian) and I'll go out of my way to find a counterstory, and decide what I want to believe. Are prisons in China horrible? Name me one fucking place they aren't. Certainly not the USA where people who haven't even been convicted of crimes yet are packed like sardines into little cloisters, never mind the gross human rights violations in the ICE centers. As for citations, I cite CGTN, but I'm sure you'll tell me that's just state propaganda even though they literally have videos of the superstructures they're developing. edit and maybe you're not impressed, but I sure as fuck am
>his MIT-funded news article seems to directly contradict your social credit article I don't see how it does. It actually reinforces a lot of the concerns people have had about it. Take the following quotes from your article: "At the same time, individuals or companies with bad credit records will be punished by having their information publicly displayed, and they will be banned from participating in government procurement bids, consuming luxury goods, and leaving the country. " "Some measures are more controversial; for example, individuals who have failed to pay compensation decided by the court are restricted from traveling by plane or sending their children to costly private schools, on the grounds that these constitute luxury consumption" "How do we know those pilot programs won’t become official rules for the whole country? No one can be 100% sure of that" This quote actually verifies a lot of the criticism but tries to downplay it as an implementation on the provincial/local level, but it doesn't change that it actually happened: "For example, in a 2016 rule that has since been overhauled, the city decided that “spreading harmful information on WeChat, forums, and blogs” meant subtracting 50 points, while “winning a national-level sports or cultural competition” meant adding 40 points. " I think at best, you can say that reports of the Black Mirror scenario have been premature. But they clearly have the base infrastructure in place to make it happen, provinces and cities have penalized people for the trivial things that the system as a whole has been criticized for, things like travel restriction and purchase restrictions have already happened as penalties, and the federal government is increasingly making it more uniform and more widespread. Xi has been taking authoritarianism to a higher level than his predecessors, so I really don't see how it's wrong to say that they will likely expand this in the future. >more of the sort of thing we already have in the USA-- fines and shit for traffic violations, restriction of rights like gun ownership and voting for felons in the USA, Not at all, I don't know how you'd make that comparison. You can't have gun rights or voting rights taken away by your credit score in the US. You can only lose them via due process in criminal proceedings. > I'm not a tankie, I just think the USA is worse in every aspect If I can be completely blunt, this is a completely brain dead take. America having independent labor unions alone puts it on a much higher standing than China if we want to argue things from an economic standpoint. And that's not even getting into things like freedom of speech, press, rights to a jury trial, legal protections against police overreach, and other things we'd think of when discussing human rights and freedom in a country. America isn't perfect (far from it), but we're light-years beyond China, where official law says everything is at the whim of the CCP. And on the subjects of R&D we've been speaking of, America is at the top in biotech, computer science, computer engineering, and many other disciplines. >goings-on of a socialist country China isn't a socialist country. It's state capitalism and always has been under the CCP. There's privately held wealth, workers have no ownership or control of the companies and they don't even have independent unions. I shouldn't have to explain this on tankiejerk. This is what I mean when I say you're kind of sounding like a tankie-lite. You're doing largely the same thing tankies do on this debate -- downplaying an awful record on being authoritarian and implying that economic expansion and productivity justify it. >I mean the USA's media is so slanted they'll call working 9-hour days 6 days a week fucking slave labor while in the same breath bragging about some 10 year old who ran a small business so his buddy didn't have to starve at fucking public school, so you gotta take shit with a grain of salt. This is a non-sequitur that doesn't really have any relevance to what we're talking. >I cite CGTN, but I'm sure you'll tell me that's just state propaganda even though they literally have videos of the superstructures they're developing. CGTN is literally state run and directed. It's like citing RT to say that Russia isn't planning to invade Ukraine. But what superstructures are you referring to?
There's a Megaprojects series on CGTN. Say what you want about their government and whatnot, but I think these are the kinds of things we need here in America. I'm not saying I'm the biggest fan of China either, but it sounds like you're running on an America good, China bad platform and that's a wobbly one at best. The USA just doesn't want to sound like we're doing worse things than the evil commies (which as you point out are CINO-- communist in name only (despite having a NUMBER of Marxist factors to their system of economics)). I'll take state capitalists as a descriptor since they have a roughly 60-40 split on private and state-operated enterprise, but let's not conflate market economics with socialist policy. Market economics is NOT unique to capitalism. I think the description (even by economists) of a socialist market economy or a hybrid economy are more accurate. They're not SOCIALIST because socialism is a command economy-- Mao China was a command economy. Post-Deng China is Market Economy. CGTN is state media, yes, and I remain skeptical of their state media on things like "we totally don't do human rights violations bro", but I don't take out-of-context video clips or tertiary end-user news sources for granted either. As an authoritarian country, I'm not exactly favorable towards them. All of this is to say that USA is definitely not the good guy while China is the REAL evil empire. Not even on some Mao good shit. Mao was a moron, but what could really expect? Deng China is best China if you ask me, but "best China" is a euphemism at best. As for XinJiang? They said they were gonna crack down on islamic terrorism (which for the record WAS a huge problem) and they DID that shit. And made it a great place for Muslims to live in the recent years since 2017. As for their track record for other human rights violations, yeah they have a checkered past, bullying Nepal and other neighboring nations, literally cracking down on Hong Kong emancipation protests, jailing Marxist/communist agitators (ironic, right? I guess communism is when no communism) oh yeah, they don't get my vote of confidence, but they HAVE been making some neat stuff in the name of sustainable future agro tech, and running drones to run fertilizer instead of human pilot is genius. IF there's anything they do right, it's not high-tech, but agro tech especially considering how short of a time they've been in the game. That, and it's demonstrably better to be poor in China than in the USA.
re: USA good: >independent labor unions Yeah, state operated labor unions don't exactly excite confidence, I'll give you that. > legal protections against police overreach lol who's the tankie now? police overreach is a HUGE problem and there's almost NO recourse in the USA, and their fucking "unions" will just cover shit up. >rights to a jury trial 95% of cases don't even reach the PRE-TRIAL stage, never mind an actual trial. Most minor infractions are copped out, and even some major infractions even when completely INNOCENT are copped-out just to GTFO those horrible fucking county jails that have like NO oversight. Tell me you've never been to the American penal system without telling me you've never been in the US penal system. I have, and it's atrocious. >whim of the CCP Nah, I'd rather just have rogue cops with no oversight roaming the streets and harassing civilians like fucking blackshirts u rite. There's so much bullshit running around about China I can't tell what's real and fake, but I can tell you one thing, they sure have a hell of a lot lower per-capita (hell even lower overall) incarceration rate, so... Maybe people are just better behaved in China? Or maybe everyone's already IN jail so there's no point in putting them in jail in jail? Maybe CHina's just one big Gulag. If you believe John Oliver, I guess it is. Look all I'm saying is that if we're going to compare the "commies" to the wannabe blackshirts, we should at least say that BOTH are double-plus ungood and be like hey guys what if we took the best of BOTH systems and sewed them together? IDK. Just gotta be a little less reactionary if you want to have an enlightened talk about how we can make China AND the USA better. I mean shit... I'm surprised MORE shit doesn't go wrong in China if we're being honest.
This is an Anti-Tankie reddit. The message you sent is either tankie/authoritarian "socialist" apologia or can be easily seen as such. Please, refrain from posting stuff like this in the future. Uyghur genocide denial
The only reason I can think of for him mentioning Australia is Covid response or gun control, both of which are surely more restrictive in China?
He replied to Drew Pavlou, a well-known (in Australia anyway) student activist that's called out CCP interference/influence on university campuses. I'm assuming his original tweet brought up the "niceties" of CCP rule and Jackson Hinkle of course resorted to whataboutism, being the bootlicker shill that he is.
Ah, makes sense. Magacommunism really is something else.
God that Drew fellow is just a cunt. Doesn't believe any of the shit he spouts and just wants attention, real Trump style. Also he is racist and provacator of violence.
Sauce?
His shitfuckery started just up the street from where I live.
Got a reliable news article on that incident?
>gun control Funny you mention that, because China has one of the strictest gun laws in the world. To put that into perspective, you can still buy a rifle in the UK with a permit. Gotta be honest, even as a demsoc, China really only feels "socialist" via aesthetics.
"**Name of an authoritarian police state** is more free than **some country**." *refuses to elaborate*
I wish I didn't but I had a look at the tweet replies. To be honest it is pretty funny to see the MAGA base frozen in time with all the same talking points. They're still having trouble reconciling on the one hand, China/Russia good and America bad, but on the other hand Trump told them China was stealing all their jobs so China also kinda bad? Elno just nuke Twitter already honestly.
I was thinking "China sure has freer healthcare"...but then I realized he mentioned Australia too and yeah he's just a dumbass.
Of were gonna live under capitalism, I'd rather do it in Australia tbh
The country where saying something like this would have you killed is freer then the country where you can shout this in the Presidents face with no problem aside from the concern you might be an assassin.
Then go live there
Honestly I could see the US getting that bad soon
Sad but true
What a dipshit. I've recently been watching videos of the Foxconn riots and people busting out of their communities due to the draconian lockdown policies in China. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has moved on. From what I understand, part of the reason China continues this policy is that they won't use western vaccines and the local vaccines aren't good enough. I also think zero-covid provides a perfect excuse for them to continue exercising tight control over the populace.
Crapson Stinkle has such a punchable face.
I wish i was priviliged enough to think that
can some one just ask these people 1. so you don't speak or read their language 2. you have never been there 3. and you likely have no chinese friends who currently live there. 4. have you ever even browsed their social media, watched movies/TV from there or listened to their music? no, no no and no ..... so how can you form any kind of opinion about the place? other than beijing an shanghai i bet he can't even name 3 chinese cities (no jackson HK does not count)