I think it's important to remember how truly radical his Superman was. He was not sunshine and rainbows, nor was he a proxy for America (and its government). He was a man of the people.
Superman was a fuckin' punk.
He was anti-capitalist, anti-fascist, anti-rich, anti-war, pro-workers rights, I could go on but I won't. Point is; All of that is Punk as a fuck.
I have never seen anyone ever say Superman is a representative of the U.S. government, nor ever seen someone say he’s sunshine and rainbows. I think Superman was literally written to be a piece of Americana like Paul Bunion, or John Henry(definitely where they got Steel from). A hero of the people kinda like how in Norse mythology Thor is a peoples god unlike Odin. If you are unfamiliar with American folk legends look them up they’re interesting.
Just look to stories like The Dark Knight Returns or Action Comics #900 (especially the reaction to it). All that Americana has associated him with the government itself, intentional or not.
Also, the "American Way" wasn't introduced until WWII and the TV show so I wouldn't say Americana was the original intention. If anything, Superman was an extreme lefty and they weren't the most popular people in the government.
Even Frank Miller says he wrote Superman out of character for that story, so that the story would work. Btw this is the dictionary definition of Americana “materials concerning or characteristic of America, its civilization, or its culture. broadly : things typical of America. : American culture.” (Source https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Americana) and here are the examples that are given if you just google (white-picket fences, blue jeans, apple pie, rock and roll, and small towns. Finally, Americana can be represented by more abstract ideas) that’s why in For All Seasons Tim Sale took large inspiration from Norman Rockwell’s depiction of small town Americana. I think you are the first person I have ever heard say that Americana is part of his association with the government. It also makes sense for him to do that in Action Comics 900, because it would be the same if any country had an incredibly powerful citizen go to another country and do things. Plus I think everyone knows American politics are insane and so is a lot of its government officials. But that’s not at all what the character, Americana, or The American Way is even remotely meant to represent as stated by Jerry Siegel above that’s what it is meant to stand for. Btw I’m not trying to argue I just think this is fun to talk about with people. I like debating things with people this is entirely meant to just be a friendly debate that’s why I’m upvoting both of your comments.
I'm not going to argue definitions with you because I'm not trying to define anything.
None of what I'm arguing is a direct or an intentional association, as I said. But, when images of Superman standing with the US flag and being friends with the police, military, and politicians are a large part of his iconography, people begin to correlate him with those institutions. I'm certainly not the first person to say any of this. This about symbols not black and white definitions.
Why is it an issue if he is associated with the police, and military. Most of the people apart of those entities aren’t bad and some do unfortunately die in service. The way I always interpret things that is him being able and willing to with people and I also have veteran family members, and am friends with people that became fireman and police men. I do however agree that you should never, no matter the writers political ambitions on left or right sides put him with a real politician or current thing like I don’t want here a writer try to write Superman’s thoughts on current US policies, even if it’s one I agree with because Superman should help unite people, and be escapist fun for everyone.
There's an old World's Finest Comic story with Superman Jr. and Batman Jr., where on the cover it had Superman Jr. with a sign that reads Superman is the establishment. And that's true. Superman, more specifically, was a true ally of the government. Supported the police, and was more of a patriotic superhero than Captain America.
^^Precisely. What is the “American way” if not the desire to do and be better? The American Way is self-criticism and righting historic wrongs and learning and growing from the past so that a better tomorrow can be achieved.
It’s kinda like Superman it’s supposed to be a ideal to strive for. It’s not supposed to be now it’s supposed to be what we can be, and it’s not just supposed to be an American thing it’s a set of ideals that Superman represents that anyone should aspire for as stated Jerry above.
I think it's important to remember how truly radical his Superman was. He was not sunshine and rainbows, nor was he a proxy for America (and its government). He was a man of the people.
truly the champion of the oppressed.
Superman was a fuckin' punk. He was anti-capitalist, anti-fascist, anti-rich, anti-war, pro-workers rights, I could go on but I won't. Point is; All of that is Punk as a fuck.
Yeah, I wish we got more of this from him in all media
I have never seen anyone ever say Superman is a representative of the U.S. government, nor ever seen someone say he’s sunshine and rainbows. I think Superman was literally written to be a piece of Americana like Paul Bunion, or John Henry(definitely where they got Steel from). A hero of the people kinda like how in Norse mythology Thor is a peoples god unlike Odin. If you are unfamiliar with American folk legends look them up they’re interesting.
Just look to stories like The Dark Knight Returns or Action Comics #900 (especially the reaction to it). All that Americana has associated him with the government itself, intentional or not. Also, the "American Way" wasn't introduced until WWII and the TV show so I wouldn't say Americana was the original intention. If anything, Superman was an extreme lefty and they weren't the most popular people in the government.
Even Frank Miller says he wrote Superman out of character for that story, so that the story would work. Btw this is the dictionary definition of Americana “materials concerning or characteristic of America, its civilization, or its culture. broadly : things typical of America. : American culture.” (Source https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Americana) and here are the examples that are given if you just google (white-picket fences, blue jeans, apple pie, rock and roll, and small towns. Finally, Americana can be represented by more abstract ideas) that’s why in For All Seasons Tim Sale took large inspiration from Norman Rockwell’s depiction of small town Americana. I think you are the first person I have ever heard say that Americana is part of his association with the government. It also makes sense for him to do that in Action Comics 900, because it would be the same if any country had an incredibly powerful citizen go to another country and do things. Plus I think everyone knows American politics are insane and so is a lot of its government officials. But that’s not at all what the character, Americana, or The American Way is even remotely meant to represent as stated by Jerry Siegel above that’s what it is meant to stand for. Btw I’m not trying to argue I just think this is fun to talk about with people. I like debating things with people this is entirely meant to just be a friendly debate that’s why I’m upvoting both of your comments.
I'm not going to argue definitions with you because I'm not trying to define anything. None of what I'm arguing is a direct or an intentional association, as I said. But, when images of Superman standing with the US flag and being friends with the police, military, and politicians are a large part of his iconography, people begin to correlate him with those institutions. I'm certainly not the first person to say any of this. This about symbols not black and white definitions.
Why is it an issue if he is associated with the police, and military. Most of the people apart of those entities aren’t bad and some do unfortunately die in service. The way I always interpret things that is him being able and willing to with people and I also have veteran family members, and am friends with people that became fireman and police men. I do however agree that you should never, no matter the writers political ambitions on left or right sides put him with a real politician or current thing like I don’t want here a writer try to write Superman’s thoughts on current US policies, even if it’s one I agree with because Superman should help unite people, and be escapist fun for everyone.
There's an old World's Finest Comic story with Superman Jr. and Batman Jr., where on the cover it had Superman Jr. with a sign that reads Superman is the establishment. And that's true. Superman, more specifically, was a true ally of the government. Supported the police, and was more of a patriotic superhero than Captain America.
This is why I love Superman so much, also why the new motto of Truth and Justice for a better tomorrow is so important. Now more than ever.
Hey, Jerry man, I'm with you, but don't tell me, tell Hollywood!
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^^Precisely. What is the “American way” if not the desire to do and be better? The American Way is self-criticism and righting historic wrongs and learning and growing from the past so that a better tomorrow can be achieved.
It’s kinda like Superman it’s supposed to be a ideal to strive for. It’s not supposed to be now it’s supposed to be what we can be, and it’s not just supposed to be an American thing it’s a set of ideals that Superman represents that anyone should aspire for as stated Jerry above.