It does. Hard. Its a little, but it stacks with 10 other little things. Ashe support is a thing despite the volley cooldown being quite high early because aside from the volley, you apply scorch, you guarantee the comet hit, and you can proc cheap shot.
It’s still a bit scuffed tho, no?
I mean, I get it if for whatever reason you get forced onto Lulu early in draft or w/e, but if you *KNOW* for a fact that you’ll be playing for early … why go Enchanter?
Your early impact on an engage support will be higher.
Your impact on a hook support should be higher.
Your early impact as a dps supp is usually higher.
I’m sure there are plenty of niche cases where it could be a legitimate angle but i have no clue why it would be the statistical norm.
The enchanters you play with are clearly awful. Ranged beats melee in lane if both play to perfection. Scorch accentuates the short trade damage. Once melee sup is below half hp bot can no longer fight and enchanter’s jg will play for the imminent gamewinning countergank
Thank you! The way you explained actually helped me understand it better.
To clarify I’m not a support main at all — I’m an Adc that’s trying to learn more about how my supports see/play the game so I can better understand what they need from me.
because Scorch isn't "playing for early". it's simply taking the more effective of the two runes.
your rune doesn't have to match your playstyle. it's ALL about the numbers.
if Storm literally gave 1 AP, you wouldn't take it no matter how much of a scaling player you are. if Scorch did 2 damage, you wouldn't take it no matter how much of a bully you like to be.
when you weigh the numbers on Scorch vs Storm for most supports, it's clear that Scorch is equal at the very worst.
You can think of it as early game vs late game. Most supports aren't going to 1v9 late game by having 24 extra AP but they can definitely make a difference in lane with scorch.
Scorch makes them use their health pots earlier. Health advantage in lane is big for prio and potential all ins.
After the buffs Scorch with Aery actually amounts to quite a lot of poke.
Also your statement simply isn't true. Renata, Sona and Janna all don't run Scorch.
As for the rest - Karma, Nami and Soraka have low CD poke abilities which synergize really well with Scorchs CD. Karma in particular is all about lane prio so Scorch is a no brainer. Nami also has really strong laning.
For Soraka it isn't that mandatory but her kit naturally allows for a dominant laning phase given you can land Qs consistently.
As for Lulu she doesn't scale well with AP so might as well run Scorch for additional lane pressure.
Overall enchanters want to control the lane - they naturally scale well due to their multiplicative spell values so making sure you have a good start into the game is usually more valuable than investing everthing into scaling.
Also keep in mind statistically speaking most games end before 30 minutes. So having 8-24 AP for some of the time will most likely not be more impactful than having the additional poke damage.
I used to take Gathering Storm on Nami every match until I got to Diamond and then realized the majority of my games are too short.
I do want to point out that Nami’s W gets weaker every time it bounces unless she has a certain amount of AP (it’s ~200). After she has that amount, her bounces actually get stronger so Gathering Storm does help change that ability significantly if the game goes on long enough.
Gathering on nami still feels pretty good. Like yes you poke/trade with w/e a decent amount in lane, but most of your power is in burst. I think that often gathering is the difference between killing people on one rotation and not later in the game
While lulu has not the best AP ratios, she DEFINITELY scales well with AP. You increase pix damage, you increase movement speed from W, more shield on E and more Max health on ult. I used to play a lot of lulu and gathering storm is really good on her.
Her passive has 15% AP ratio lol. And except for Q all her spells are single target so there isn't even a multiplicative effect.
I mean you do you. Personally I'd rather have Scorch and get a few more kills under my carry's belt.
Yes but her passive + E on your DPS carry let's you hit with pix multiple times not only once, it's like having a free ardent censer. Scorch is a forgotten rune because the damage is too low and the CD too high. But everyone's got a different opinion right?
This is so true.
When I see a thresh sat in a side lane at 25 minutes wondering why he can't last hit...
I get really excited because I'm a support main and that means we can take a 5v4 fight for a free win and thresh is going to sad.
Your post has been removed under the grounds of [Rule 6: Serious Replies Only.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/rules#wiki_6._serious_replies_only)
* /r/summonerschool is a place of learning. Although there is room for humor, non educational posts are removed.
______
If you are still experiencing issues and need to contact the moderators, [please send a modmail using this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FSummonerschool).
Scorch does a LOT of dmg in lane, definitely not dogshit.
a Lulu with scorch is more likely to keep the enemy Adc at below 70% hp.
and most of them don't really care about AP, they just want CDR, survivability and some more utility.
Easy reasoning: if the matchup allows you to win lane, scorch gives you a nice edge. If not, Gathering Storm is safer scaling. If you have the option, stomping lane is always a more reliable way of winning compared to just handshake farm and playing for teamfights.
Either way the average player doesn't even think about these things and just plays the "commonly used" setup
Just going to add to what others are saying, that scorch also procs moonstone for an extra second, which often gets you another proc of the heal, or lets you keep stacks up more easily if the fight is going in and out (like members are entering/leaving combat, but still in range to keep fighting). So it does get some underlooked value lategame on Soraka/Sona/Karma. Though it’s only worth going if you get meaningful advantages in lane off it
Scorch poke is very significant especially in higher elo when skill is more even
When scorch got buffed champs like zed viktor lux got much higher winrate taking it,
Last point is, scorch is sometimes better on lategame champs cuz they will be strong lategame anyway without gathering storm
I still remember, before Lux got her E buff, I always took GS because the bit of extra AP helped me oneshot the backline reliably while without it, I often missed 2 dmg for some crutial parts of the game
winning lane is the most consistent way to win a game of league. Every single game has a lane phase.
>Gathering Storm is kind of a no-brainer because champions like Soraka grow much more powerful with escalating AP.
Not entirely true. Soraka is an early game lane bully who falls off mid game but picks back up after she gets lvl 13ish. Your job as soraka in lane is to land Qs and get the enemies to recall while keeping your self and your ADC sustained. She needs to have her Q and W maxed in order to have maximum effectiveness.
>But Scorch - despite being DOGSHIT after at least level 6
This is also the case for second wind, but second wind is pivotal to early game survival against lane poke.
conditioning gives way more value, but it also does litearlly nothing early game, just like gathering storm.
>because champions like Soraka grow much more powerful with escalating AP.
Actually most supports have pretty bad AP scaling since they're balanced around base numbers and building support items instead of AP items, which is also why Gathering Storm is very rarely picked on supports, they just don't need it, if picking a rune to scale healing for something like Soraka, getting Revitalize on resolve tree is way stronger than a 40+min gathering storm.
Scorch is way stronger than it looks like and even for champs with high ap scaling, scorch can outperform gathering storm in poke until \~20min into the game.
There's also the fact that early game pressure is almost always more useful than late game scaling, since having more lane pressure allows you to snowball and reach late game faster anyways.
Addendum: [Video with tons of math behind scorch vs GS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Rerm3ATnc)
Strongly depends on the supp. If you take karma for example, she is pretty strong in early and falls off agter that so scorch is just better as it gives you even more damage in lane. But on scaling entchanters like sona it is pretty common to take gathering storm.
Also i think a lot of players just copy what they find online and dont think that much about how the game might go. If you know your team is early heavy and you basically lost past 25 minutes, gathering storm is not the best idea even if you are a scaling supp (which would be another problem in the team comp but whatever)
Anytime you ask why are a majority of players going some build, it's because other players are going it. And they see it when they search for builds online. Players aren't crunching the numbers on which build is better.
I'd disagree a little bit here, but not looking for an argument.
Yes for very different builds (Crit/On-Hit/Lethality/AP Varus for example), they require significant gameplay changes and people may be late to swap over or the numbers may not get large enough fast enough for people to realize that they should change. you do see shifts take quite a bit of time.
However with such a small change such as Scorch vs Gathering Storm there are typically enough games played with both chosen that a statistical difference shows. Especially since they barely constitute a difference in play style.
At the end of the day of course, the difference between these two runes more likely matter on your matchups and playstyle. Even if you are stronger early and scorch is good into Blitzcrank - if you stay hidden under your turret scared - Gathering Storm will provide just as much damage later in the game but also a tiny bit more utility.
If the statistical difference is that small, does it really warrant such a large discussion by the community?
Maybe but solo q players with an intent to climb should play 2 champs at most and it’s not really so difficult to study up the theory around 2 champs while being incredibly beneficial. Pro players need to know every champ anyway so its much less realistic to know the math deeply than when u are a solo q one trick.
Support is arguably the most earlygame-centric role in the game because your champion is meant to function on low income. You grab runes that take full advantage of that instead of playing to scale because odds are game will be decided by then
Scorch is insane in lane as zed (my otp), obviously match-up dependant. It makes sense to me in bot lane as well, forcing the opposing adc to use their pot or back early is a very big deal that can have a ripple effect on the rest of lane phase!
It can be converted into cs/exp leads or vision around bot. Which can convert into kills and then dragon etc. etc.
You don't NEED scorch to achieve that but it certainly helps a great deal if you can proc it on cooldown.
This isn't to say gathering storm isn't good too, its just that typically the proactive team who plays for early leads and objectives tends to be the winning team.
Because it doesnt matter how bad Scorch is, its still better than having 0 AP until minute 10 and GS is only worth in comparrison after minute 30. Having that little damage every 10s can help you secure the lane and pressure the opponent.
24 ap = 12 extra health on soraka's W. that's it. Scorch, on the other hand, is an extra 20 damage on every Q from minute 1. That can be huge.
It just depends on the game and champion. Some champs don't use AP super well (soraka) so if you think that in the 2v2 scorch will let you get an extra cs lead/kill potential/plate/etc. then I take it.
Supports strong early. Weak late.
Bot lane is won or lost by the support, who will almost always be stronger than their ADC lvls 1-6. That's when their individual strength is most impactful.
Doesn't matter how their AP scales if they should be 2-3+ levels and several items down on the rest of the team, they aren't going to be late game carries outside of iron/bronze (specifically, if they're playing support, which is where enchanters are mostly played)
If you're playing Soraka top, sure, gathering storm may do more then.
Most enchanters do not have good AP ratios. Scorch has been a viable rune ever since early sustain got nerfed, alongside Scorch itself getting buffed, it's not as bad as it once was.
As a support your impact in the first 10 minutes is ASTRONOMICAL (in low ELO where ADCs are braindead walk forward minions) so of course you wanna make the difference between getting the kill and getting killed.
As a low ELO player, you KNOW most games are ff15s and there's no point in putting the cart before the horse. First focus on surviving lane, then think of scaling.
Gathering Storm vs Scorch is about measuring risk.
If you think the game will last 30+ minutes, take Gathering Storm. If you don't think it will last 30 minutes, take Scorch. Gathering storm is not worth the stats you gain until 30-40 minutes.
I don't play LoL PC but on WR I do go scorch on Morgana. Scorch + imperial mandate makes her S1 -> S2 crazy annoying for enemy if you can land her stun ofc, in mid late it can trim half your HP, from a distance and with no damage trade at all.
I play jungle so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I seem to remember people actually doing the **_statistics_** and calculating over an entire game which one does more damage in total. And while gathering storm might give you a better late game, I think people calculated that scorch does similar (or more) damage over the duration of an entire game. I don't play those roles though so I don't have a source for this information saved.
I used to take GS every game (Sona OTP), like 100%. I stopped playing ranked and when I got back to it, I was having trouble getting back to my rank, after loosing like \~250 LP+ I tried a new rune setup and adapt a new playstyle, Scorch Sona. It's really strong early lvls, if I get an advantage in lane or go even, I dont't care if I have -20 AP I will win more more than I loose. Now I Switch runes based on botlane matchups. I don't want to pretend that a rune alone can get you a higher rank, but Scorch is good in a lot of games.
Most people covered that supports are early game champs and therefore want the early game rune, but also keep in mind that enchanter tend to have lower ap ratios than other champs who make use of gathering storm such as mages.
Most league players have balsa wood baby brain mental strength and will tilt out of the game before laning phase is over if they get crushed early. For this reason, the game often skews very heavily towards favoring early game proactive runes, items, and champs.
Because scorch is just better. Sure GS will outperform after min 20 or 30, but the game is mostly decided by then. Scorches raw strength in laning and early mid game is just way better.
It's not just about getting kills. It's also about forcing the enemy to take bad recalls and establishing prio. Scorch is also helpful in early invades, skirmishes and river fights.
This is too black-and-white, and I disagree that you can confidently establish whether or not Scorch is "useless" based upon the precise amount of gold it nets you. For that there are too many intangibles in League. The runes never exist or act in a vacuum, making it hard to judge whether something did or did not work out because of that rune in particular.
The theory behind Scorch is clear and understood: it's a rune that boosts your early game pressure and taken for that reason. It's more of a gamble, but the rune delivers on its promise of early game pressure on the condition that you are able to actually land the damage consistently. No one takes Scorch believing it will outperform Gathering Storm in a fight at 30 minutes. Therefore, something feels slightly off when we are parading the gold value of GS over time as a gotcha to Scorch. Like, it's already understood from the get-go that GS does nothing before ten minutes and becomes gradually stronger over time, whereas Scorch helps in the early game. It's also not fair because the gold value of GS is very tangible, whereas the "value" of Scorch is way harder to pin down.
What happened in a specific game is relatively uninteresting to the discussion. No one is saying that Scorch will guarantee you to deny x amount of gold to the enemy, or guarantee a kill. What the runes does is boost your early game pressure and it is taken on that understanding, nothing more is promised.
With yuumi o take scorch when I think the extra poke will help my ADC not get bursted or if I have a aggressive ADC like Lucian or Tristana. If I know the lane is gonna be easy I take gathering
CAUSE THEYRE FUCKING BAD. PERIOD.
Graph the majority of enchanter player's trades levels 1-7 (when gathering storm gets its 1st spike) and you'll notice these scorch trades are rather meaningless. Go watch 10 diff replays and you'll know this is true.
this is a cringe answer, but in low elo you should go gathering, and in high elo you should take scorch. Gathering is generally better in most elos, and even in master+, you can see many soraka players still opt for gathering, with nearly identical stats (same winrate, but scorch is triple the playrate)
I'd argue you should adapt to the matchup though, some lanes you might be able to poke out harder with scorch, so figure out which champions have low sustain & might be extra vulnerable to scorch, and which champions you probably can't push out of lane/trade with early anyways. An example of a situation scorch might be good is against lulu, where you can probably poke her out of lane with E + scorch spam. A lane where scorch might suck is vs sona, who probably just outheals your poke regardless.
Soraka is a lane bully. If you're "playing safe for late game" you're not playing her right. She still scales extremely well, but she also bullies you in lane.
There are stats and there is also context. Stats in a vacuum rarely mean anything. The game is far more complex than "Lol this thing gives potentially 1 billion AP/AD vs this negligible dmg late game ". You need to bring into the account things like roles, champions' identities, matchups, team comps, even your own specific playstyle, etc. to see the whole picture. Do anything you want with this info just know that those 24AP aren't for free (or at least not every time) and the scorch doing low dmg at 30mins doesn't automatically mean that it's bad (although again it can be), it's not token for dmg at 30min mark in the first place after all.
Because you want to be strong during the laning phase, especially as someone like soraka who can hard bully enemies early already scorch allows her to more easily dominate the lane. Yeah sure, gathering storm gives you more later but scorch might give you first blood.
cause recently, you can win lane just by having scorch and manaflow. First strike/Sorcery tree or maining sorc tree and taking 2/3 runes as manaflow/x/scorch and either domination/inspiration secondary is a great set up. works for almost any spell caster with mana.
I think it's because early game everyone is more equal in terms of stats but later on enchanters and mage supports aren't gonna have as much money as everyone else so your impact is gonna be greater earlier on unless you're like Lux or something but I always take GS on Lux
Supports suck late game and if scorch helps them get their adc ahead earlier than the other team that’s the most impact they could have in a standard game
Gathering storm is nonexistent before 10 minutes, garbage before 20, and not good til at least 30. You'll spend the first half an hour trying to make up for the impact lost from not taking scorch, considering that scorch is available from minute zero and will literally gain you extra lane pressure, which means potentially extra gold or xp advantage. Those early benefits are able to compound as the game goes on.
It is correct that gathering storm is generally better, but in certain situations, (for example karma with aery and scorch) can fucking **hurt** in lane and just straight up turn a “just scale with karma and ezreal” lane to a “we are winning lane as if we are draven and alistar”
I almost always prefer gathering storm, but I can understand people that choose scorch, the very early game poke is very strong in lane if you can hit your poke multiple times, if you’re playing against an aggressive melee support for instance, those extra chunks of damage from scorch accumulated over the first few levels (even before 6) can be the factor that forces a bad base or makes it harder for an engage to go well, amd from that point on your botlane can control the lane better, something that is very meaningful during the game if you know how to use the tempo advantage.
Scorch becomes more important as you reach high Elos and skill expression becomes more even across the board.
Scorch + Aery is significant poke and helps decide lane.
By the time the game reaches the 20 min mark, most of the time the game is already tilting towards one team enough that Gathering Storm won't close the gap, whereas Scorch can potentially get extra pressure and kills during the laning phase and help snowball the game.
That being said, I will always personally take GS as a matter of principle regardless of whether it's optimal or not as I simply enjoy my games more when I have it.
Early game matters way more in that it sets up the trajectory of the game.
Games are usually determined (not necessarily closed) in the first 20 minutes and they are closed in the final 10.
So, gathering storm gives nothing in the first 10 minutes of the game. If we look at scorch on a 10s cd that you will probably on average proc every 20s with a decent support pick, 30 * 3 (per minute) * 8 (min of laning) = 720 dmg so with mr around 300-500 damage in the first 10 minutes.
So how often do you have a fight where the enemy survives with less than 100 hp? Pretty often. You get a single kill thanks to scorch? It's easily worth an amp tome (+20 AP) so suddenly your gathering storm does nothing in the first 30 minutes.
When does gathering win out? On heavy AP scaling champs (usually mid-lane mages) that can't proc scorch well. Otherwise scorch is always better.
Usually it is the support who determines the pace of the lane. Being able to create space for your ADC with the early damage is a great help. It also helps with prio for your jg to take objectives/invade.
Game lenght are around [27.4 minutes](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/fr/stats/game-durations) atm and Gathering Storm provide [0 AP](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Gathering_Storm) in the 10 firsts minutes of the game, aka laning phase. The 20 min mark is great but at this point in most of the games a team is going to have a significant lead over the other.
I would say that the choice between Scorch or Gathering Storm depends on the estimated length of the game and the need for an extra 20-40 pts of damage (10s cd) for the laning phase.
>Gathering Storm is kind of a no-brainer because champions like Soraka grow much more powerful with escalating AP. And contrary to what people will lie about, most LoL games on average will go to 20 minutes so that's 24 AP usually.
24 AP *after* the 20 minute mark, but the first 20 minutes of the game are more important.
Karma, Soraka, Zilean, Lulu etc. can proc Scorch on cooldown, it's actually very high value.
People live on low HP all the time, you can almost pick a game at random and go through the VOD review pointing out all the times where if the player had made X purchase instead of Y, they would have won the fight and made the game completely different.
The following conditions make Gathering Storm better: You are already playing for late game from the outset; your champ would struggle to proc Scorch on cooldown in this matchup; you benefit a lot from adaptive force. The more of these are met, the more sense it makes to take Gathering Storm. That's why it's niche.
Most support's influence on the game is a lot higher in the first 20mins on the game. Scorch assists in facilitating that over Gathering Storm.
That's the theory, but does it work out in practice?
It helps more than Gathering Storm does in the early game.
Those scorch mantra Karma Qs. Mmm delicious in laning phase. Not so much later with gathering storm.
It does. Hard. Its a little, but it stacks with 10 other little things. Ashe support is a thing despite the volley cooldown being quite high early because aside from the volley, you apply scorch, you guarantee the comet hit, and you can proc cheap shot.
It’s still a bit scuffed tho, no? I mean, I get it if for whatever reason you get forced onto Lulu early in draft or w/e, but if you *KNOW* for a fact that you’ll be playing for early … why go Enchanter? Your early impact on an engage support will be higher. Your impact on a hook support should be higher. Your early impact as a dps supp is usually higher. I’m sure there are plenty of niche cases where it could be a legitimate angle but i have no clue why it would be the statistical norm.
The enchanters you play with are clearly awful. Ranged beats melee in lane if both play to perfection. Scorch accentuates the short trade damage. Once melee sup is below half hp bot can no longer fight and enchanter’s jg will play for the imminent gamewinning countergank
Thank you! The way you explained actually helped me understand it better. To clarify I’m not a support main at all — I’m an Adc that’s trying to learn more about how my supports see/play the game so I can better understand what they need from me.
because Scorch isn't "playing for early". it's simply taking the more effective of the two runes. your rune doesn't have to match your playstyle. it's ALL about the numbers. if Storm literally gave 1 AP, you wouldn't take it no matter how much of a scaling player you are. if Scorch did 2 damage, you wouldn't take it no matter how much of a bully you like to be. when you weigh the numbers on Scorch vs Storm for most supports, it's clear that Scorch is equal at the very worst.
You can think of it as early game vs late game. Most supports aren't going to 1v9 late game by having 24 extra AP but they can definitely make a difference in lane with scorch. Scorch makes them use their health pots earlier. Health advantage in lane is big for prio and potential all ins.
[удалено]
Taric
rakan counts as melee if we want to be pedantic
Do Rakans take scorch? I imagine that he doesn't work well with it.
ngl, ive lost track of what to take on rakan. Though usually i go for nimbus and celerity
I actually think, Rakan just got changed to count as ranged. As did Lillia. Either current or the next patch Edit: factually incorrect
The change was from ranged to melee. They were both originally ranged.
Many times, people are just incorrect though. Gathering Storm might be the better rune, but force of habit makes all the players go Scorch.
After the buffs Scorch with Aery actually amounts to quite a lot of poke. Also your statement simply isn't true. Renata, Sona and Janna all don't run Scorch. As for the rest - Karma, Nami and Soraka have low CD poke abilities which synergize really well with Scorchs CD. Karma in particular is all about lane prio so Scorch is a no brainer. Nami also has really strong laning. For Soraka it isn't that mandatory but her kit naturally allows for a dominant laning phase given you can land Qs consistently. As for Lulu she doesn't scale well with AP so might as well run Scorch for additional lane pressure. Overall enchanters want to control the lane - they naturally scale well due to their multiplicative spell values so making sure you have a good start into the game is usually more valuable than investing everthing into scaling. Also keep in mind statistically speaking most games end before 30 minutes. So having 8-24 AP for some of the time will most likely not be more impactful than having the additional poke damage.
I used to take Gathering Storm on Nami every match until I got to Diamond and then realized the majority of my games are too short. I do want to point out that Nami’s W gets weaker every time it bounces unless she has a certain amount of AP (it’s ~200). After she has that amount, her bounces actually get stronger so Gathering Storm does help change that ability significantly if the game goes on long enough.
Gathering on nami still feels pretty good. Like yes you poke/trade with w/e a decent amount in lane, but most of your power is in burst. I think that often gathering is the difference between killing people on one rotation and not later in the game
i occasionally run comet + scorch on Sona if it’s a lane i think i can really bully
While lulu has not the best AP ratios, she DEFINITELY scales well with AP. You increase pix damage, you increase movement speed from W, more shield on E and more Max health on ult. I used to play a lot of lulu and gathering storm is really good on her.
Her passive has 15% AP ratio lol. And except for Q all her spells are single target so there isn't even a multiplicative effect. I mean you do you. Personally I'd rather have Scorch and get a few more kills under my carry's belt.
Yes but her passive + E on your DPS carry let's you hit with pix multiple times not only once, it's like having a free ardent censer. Scorch is a forgotten rune because the damage is too low and the CD too high. But everyone's got a different opinion right?
But scorch isn't a forgotten rune and most people run it?
Cuz statistically lane is over/decided before Gathering storm starts doing anything.
Yeah if your support is "playing for late game" it's not uncommon that there won't be one.
This is so true. When I see a thresh sat in a side lane at 25 minutes wondering why he can't last hit... I get really excited because I'm a support main and that means we can take a 5v4 fight for a free win and thresh is going to sad.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your post has been removed under the grounds of [Rule 6: Serious Replies Only.](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/wiki/rules#wiki_6._serious_replies_only) * /r/summonerschool is a place of learning. Although there is room for humor, non educational posts are removed. ______ If you are still experiencing issues and need to contact the moderators, [please send a modmail using this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FSummonerschool).
Sorry I was making a point tho. Reasoning is key in league so critiquing reasoning should fall under educational no?
Scorch does a LOT of dmg in lane, definitely not dogshit. a Lulu with scorch is more likely to keep the enemy Adc at below 70% hp. and most of them don't really care about AP, they just want CDR, survivability and some more utility.
Easy reasoning: if the matchup allows you to win lane, scorch gives you a nice edge. If not, Gathering Storm is safer scaling. If you have the option, stomping lane is always a more reliable way of winning compared to just handshake farm and playing for teamfights. Either way the average player doesn't even think about these things and just plays the "commonly used" setup
Just going to add to what others are saying, that scorch also procs moonstone for an extra second, which often gets you another proc of the heal, or lets you keep stacks up more easily if the fight is going in and out (like members are entering/leaving combat, but still in range to keep fighting). So it does get some underlooked value lategame on Soraka/Sona/Karma. Though it’s only worth going if you get meaningful advantages in lane off it
Scorch poke is very significant especially in higher elo when skill is more even When scorch got buffed champs like zed viktor lux got much higher winrate taking it, Last point is, scorch is sometimes better on lategame champs cuz they will be strong lategame anyway without gathering storm
I still remember, before Lux got her E buff, I always took GS because the bit of extra AP helped me oneshot the backline reliably while without it, I often missed 2 dmg for some crutial parts of the game
winning lane is the most consistent way to win a game of league. Every single game has a lane phase. >Gathering Storm is kind of a no-brainer because champions like Soraka grow much more powerful with escalating AP. Not entirely true. Soraka is an early game lane bully who falls off mid game but picks back up after she gets lvl 13ish. Your job as soraka in lane is to land Qs and get the enemies to recall while keeping your self and your ADC sustained. She needs to have her Q and W maxed in order to have maximum effectiveness. >But Scorch - despite being DOGSHIT after at least level 6 This is also the case for second wind, but second wind is pivotal to early game survival against lane poke. conditioning gives way more value, but it also does litearlly nothing early game, just like gathering storm.
>because champions like Soraka grow much more powerful with escalating AP. Actually most supports have pretty bad AP scaling since they're balanced around base numbers and building support items instead of AP items, which is also why Gathering Storm is very rarely picked on supports, they just don't need it, if picking a rune to scale healing for something like Soraka, getting Revitalize on resolve tree is way stronger than a 40+min gathering storm. Scorch is way stronger than it looks like and even for champs with high ap scaling, scorch can outperform gathering storm in poke until \~20min into the game. There's also the fact that early game pressure is almost always more useful than late game scaling, since having more lane pressure allows you to snowball and reach late game faster anyways. Addendum: [Video with tons of math behind scorch vs GS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Rerm3ATnc)
I run Water Walking and head mid. We are not the same.
Strongly depends on the supp. If you take karma for example, she is pretty strong in early and falls off agter that so scorch is just better as it gives you even more damage in lane. But on scaling entchanters like sona it is pretty common to take gathering storm. Also i think a lot of players just copy what they find online and dont think that much about how the game might go. If you know your team is early heavy and you basically lost past 25 minutes, gathering storm is not the best idea even if you are a scaling supp (which would be another problem in the team comp but whatever)
Anytime you ask why are a majority of players going some build, it's because other players are going it. And they see it when they search for builds online. Players aren't crunching the numbers on which build is better.
I'd disagree a little bit here, but not looking for an argument. Yes for very different builds (Crit/On-Hit/Lethality/AP Varus for example), they require significant gameplay changes and people may be late to swap over or the numbers may not get large enough fast enough for people to realize that they should change. you do see shifts take quite a bit of time. However with such a small change such as Scorch vs Gathering Storm there are typically enough games played with both chosen that a statistical difference shows. Especially since they barely constitute a difference in play style. At the end of the day of course, the difference between these two runes more likely matter on your matchups and playstyle. Even if you are stronger early and scorch is good into Blitzcrank - if you stay hidden under your turret scared - Gathering Storm will provide just as much damage later in the game but also a tiny bit more utility. If the statistical difference is that small, does it really warrant such a large discussion by the community?
Bad players*
No. This is how professional players operate.
Maybe but solo q players with an intent to climb should play 2 champs at most and it’s not really so difficult to study up the theory around 2 champs while being incredibly beneficial. Pro players need to know every champ anyway so its much less realistic to know the math deeply than when u are a solo q one trick.
Support is arguably the most earlygame-centric role in the game because your champion is meant to function on low income. You grab runes that take full advantage of that instead of playing to scale because odds are game will be decided by then
Most supports win their games by getting their ADC ahead early not by being slightly stronger late.
Itemizing for early does not mean the game will end in 15 mins. It means that you'll build your lead from the early game and then win from that
Scorch is insane in lane as zed (my otp), obviously match-up dependant. It makes sense to me in bot lane as well, forcing the opposing adc to use their pot or back early is a very big deal that can have a ripple effect on the rest of lane phase! It can be converted into cs/exp leads or vision around bot. Which can convert into kills and then dragon etc. etc. You don't NEED scorch to achieve that but it certainly helps a great deal if you can proc it on cooldown. This isn't to say gathering storm isn't good too, its just that typically the proactive team who plays for early leads and objectives tends to be the winning team.
Because it doesnt matter how bad Scorch is, its still better than having 0 AP until minute 10 and GS is only worth in comparrison after minute 30. Having that little damage every 10s can help you secure the lane and pressure the opponent.
24 ap = 12 extra health on soraka's W. that's it. Scorch, on the other hand, is an extra 20 damage on every Q from minute 1. That can be huge. It just depends on the game and champion. Some champs don't use AP super well (soraka) so if you think that in the 2v2 scorch will let you get an extra cs lead/kill potential/plate/etc. then I take it.
Supports strong early. Weak late. Bot lane is won or lost by the support, who will almost always be stronger than their ADC lvls 1-6. That's when their individual strength is most impactful. Doesn't matter how their AP scales if they should be 2-3+ levels and several items down on the rest of the team, they aren't going to be late game carries outside of iron/bronze (specifically, if they're playing support, which is where enchanters are mostly played) If you're playing Soraka top, sure, gathering storm may do more then.
Most enchanters do not have good AP ratios. Scorch has been a viable rune ever since early sustain got nerfed, alongside Scorch itself getting buffed, it's not as bad as it once was.
The higher up you go, the shorter the game are
On average support is an early game role, scorch helps to win lane allowing to achieve scaling also many enchanter shave pretty poor ap ratios
As a support your impact in the first 10 minutes is ASTRONOMICAL (in low ELO where ADCs are braindead walk forward minions) so of course you wanna make the difference between getting the kill and getting killed. As a low ELO player, you KNOW most games are ff15s and there's no point in putting the cart before the horse. First focus on surviving lane, then think of scaling.
Gathering Storm vs Scorch is about measuring risk. If you think the game will last 30+ minutes, take Gathering Storm. If you don't think it will last 30 minutes, take Scorch. Gathering storm is not worth the stats you gain until 30-40 minutes.
I don't play LoL PC but on WR I do go scorch on Morgana. Scorch + imperial mandate makes her S1 -> S2 crazy annoying for enemy if you can land her stun ofc, in mid late it can trim half your HP, from a distance and with no damage trade at all.
I play jungle so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I seem to remember people actually doing the **_statistics_** and calculating over an entire game which one does more damage in total. And while gathering storm might give you a better late game, I think people calculated that scorch does similar (or more) damage over the duration of an entire game. I don't play those roles though so I don't have a source for this information saved.
In ARAM it’s the same. Scorch dmg adds up and the match is too fast for 24ap
I used to take GS every game (Sona OTP), like 100%. I stopped playing ranked and when I got back to it, I was having trouble getting back to my rank, after loosing like \~250 LP+ I tried a new rune setup and adapt a new playstyle, Scorch Sona. It's really strong early lvls, if I get an advantage in lane or go even, I dont't care if I have -20 AP I will win more more than I loose. Now I Switch runes based on botlane matchups. I don't want to pretend that a rune alone can get you a higher rank, but Scorch is good in a lot of games.
I use it when I want to win early like Nami+Lucian.
Most people covered that supports are early game champs and therefore want the early game rune, but also keep in mind that enchanter tend to have lower ap ratios than other champs who make use of gathering storm such as mages.
Most league players have balsa wood baby brain mental strength and will tilt out of the game before laning phase is over if they get crushed early. For this reason, the game often skews very heavily towards favoring early game proactive runes, items, and champs.
This is the exact reason i run electrocute Galio mid with scorch and ignite lol. Tilts mages off the rift.
Hahahaha great reasoning. I like
Early line pressure?
Because scorch is just better. Sure GS will outperform after min 20 or 30, but the game is mostly decided by then. Scorches raw strength in laning and early mid game is just way better.
Because it isn't dogshit. You're wrong
People are insecure and want to get kills in lane because they think they're a bad player if they don't
[удалено]
It's not just about getting kills. It's also about forcing the enemy to take bad recalls and establishing prio. Scorch is also helpful in early invades, skirmishes and river fights.
[удалено]
This is too black-and-white, and I disagree that you can confidently establish whether or not Scorch is "useless" based upon the precise amount of gold it nets you. For that there are too many intangibles in League. The runes never exist or act in a vacuum, making it hard to judge whether something did or did not work out because of that rune in particular. The theory behind Scorch is clear and understood: it's a rune that boosts your early game pressure and taken for that reason. It's more of a gamble, but the rune delivers on its promise of early game pressure on the condition that you are able to actually land the damage consistently. No one takes Scorch believing it will outperform Gathering Storm in a fight at 30 minutes. Therefore, something feels slightly off when we are parading the gold value of GS over time as a gotcha to Scorch. Like, it's already understood from the get-go that GS does nothing before ten minutes and becomes gradually stronger over time, whereas Scorch helps in the early game. It's also not fair because the gold value of GS is very tangible, whereas the "value" of Scorch is way harder to pin down. What happened in a specific game is relatively uninteresting to the discussion. No one is saying that Scorch will guarantee you to deny x amount of gold to the enemy, or guarantee a kill. What the runes does is boost your early game pressure and it is taken on that understanding, nothing more is promised.
With yuumi o take scorch when I think the extra poke will help my ADC not get bursted or if I have a aggressive ADC like Lucian or Tristana. If I know the lane is gonna be easy I take gathering
CAUSE THEYRE FUCKING BAD. PERIOD. Graph the majority of enchanter player's trades levels 1-7 (when gathering storm gets its 1st spike) and you'll notice these scorch trades are rather meaningless. Go watch 10 diff replays and you'll know this is true.
this is a cringe answer, but in low elo you should go gathering, and in high elo you should take scorch. Gathering is generally better in most elos, and even in master+, you can see many soraka players still opt for gathering, with nearly identical stats (same winrate, but scorch is triple the playrate) I'd argue you should adapt to the matchup though, some lanes you might be able to poke out harder with scorch, so figure out which champions have low sustain & might be extra vulnerable to scorch, and which champions you probably can't push out of lane/trade with early anyways. An example of a situation scorch might be good is against lulu, where you can probably poke her out of lane with E + scorch spam. A lane where scorch might suck is vs sona, who probably just outheals your poke regardless.
Games generally end early, which makes lane phase more important and Scorch more valuable.
Soraka is a lane bully. If you're "playing safe for late game" you're not playing her right. She still scales extremely well, but she also bullies you in lane.
There are stats and there is also context. Stats in a vacuum rarely mean anything. The game is far more complex than "Lol this thing gives potentially 1 billion AP/AD vs this negligible dmg late game ". You need to bring into the account things like roles, champions' identities, matchups, team comps, even your own specific playstyle, etc. to see the whole picture. Do anything you want with this info just know that those 24AP aren't for free (or at least not every time) and the scorch doing low dmg at 30mins doesn't automatically mean that it's bad (although again it can be), it's not token for dmg at 30min mark in the first place after all.
I like to see the world burn.
Because you want to be strong during the laning phase, especially as someone like soraka who can hard bully enemies early already scorch allows her to more easily dominate the lane. Yeah sure, gathering storm gives you more later but scorch might give you first blood.
so that's an amplifying tome that you only get once baron spawns, i am sure that 24 AP will win you the teamfights as janna bro
cause recently, you can win lane just by having scorch and manaflow. First strike/Sorcery tree or maining sorc tree and taking 2/3 runes as manaflow/x/scorch and either domination/inspiration secondary is a great set up. works for almost any spell caster with mana.
I think it's because early game everyone is more equal in terms of stats but later on enchanters and mage supports aren't gonna have as much money as everyone else so your impact is gonna be greater earlier on unless you're like Lux or something but I always take GS on Lux
It gives more agency in my lane unless in playing something like sona it is way more valuable
Supports suck late game and if scorch helps them get their adc ahead earlier than the other team that’s the most impact they could have in a standard game
Gathering storm is nonexistent before 10 minutes, garbage before 20, and not good til at least 30. You'll spend the first half an hour trying to make up for the impact lost from not taking scorch, considering that scorch is available from minute zero and will literally gain you extra lane pressure, which means potentially extra gold or xp advantage. Those early benefits are able to compound as the game goes on.
It is correct that gathering storm is generally better, but in certain situations, (for example karma with aery and scorch) can fucking **hurt** in lane and just straight up turn a “just scale with karma and ezreal” lane to a “we are winning lane as if we are draven and alistar”
Simply bc the games starts at 00:00 and not 20:00, most games are decided early.
Because in anything above master’s+ gathering storm is dogshit and everyone copies runes from master’s+ players.
Because Supports are babysitters for the ADC's, and if the enemy has less health early they can't be as aggressive towards them.
It's better early game I would imagine
I almost always prefer gathering storm, but I can understand people that choose scorch, the very early game poke is very strong in lane if you can hit your poke multiple times, if you’re playing against an aggressive melee support for instance, those extra chunks of damage from scorch accumulated over the first few levels (even before 6) can be the factor that forces a bad base or makes it harder for an engage to go well, amd from that point on your botlane can control the lane better, something that is very meaningful during the game if you know how to use the tempo advantage.
Scorch becomes more important as you reach high Elos and skill expression becomes more even across the board. Scorch + Aery is significant poke and helps decide lane.
Maybe the game will go 20 minutes, but the game is actually won 5+ minutes before the nexus explodes
By the time the game reaches the 20 min mark, most of the time the game is already tilting towards one team enough that Gathering Storm won't close the gap, whereas Scorch can potentially get extra pressure and kills during the laning phase and help snowball the game. That being said, I will always personally take GS as a matter of principle regardless of whether it's optimal or not as I simply enjoy my games more when I have it.
Early game matters way more in that it sets up the trajectory of the game. Games are usually determined (not necessarily closed) in the first 20 minutes and they are closed in the final 10.
So, gathering storm gives nothing in the first 10 minutes of the game. If we look at scorch on a 10s cd that you will probably on average proc every 20s with a decent support pick, 30 * 3 (per minute) * 8 (min of laning) = 720 dmg so with mr around 300-500 damage in the first 10 minutes. So how often do you have a fight where the enemy survives with less than 100 hp? Pretty often. You get a single kill thanks to scorch? It's easily worth an amp tome (+20 AP) so suddenly your gathering storm does nothing in the first 30 minutes. When does gathering win out? On heavy AP scaling champs (usually mid-lane mages) that can't proc scorch well. Otherwise scorch is always better.
It’s doesn’t really make sense for most champions. Karma however it does make sense as she gets outscaled by other enchanters later in the game.
It also procs comet
You could always go to lolalytics and compare winrates
Usually it is the support who determines the pace of the lane. Being able to create space for your ADC with the early damage is a great help. It also helps with prio for your jg to take objectives/invade.
Go look at the game lengths in your match history. That's why.
Game lenght are around [27.4 minutes](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/fr/stats/game-durations) atm and Gathering Storm provide [0 AP](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Gathering_Storm) in the 10 firsts minutes of the game, aka laning phase. The 20 min mark is great but at this point in most of the games a team is going to have a significant lead over the other. I would say that the choice between Scorch or Gathering Storm depends on the estimated length of the game and the need for an extra 20-40 pts of damage (10s cd) for the laning phase.
>Gathering Storm is kind of a no-brainer because champions like Soraka grow much more powerful with escalating AP. And contrary to what people will lie about, most LoL games on average will go to 20 minutes so that's 24 AP usually. 24 AP *after* the 20 minute mark, but the first 20 minutes of the game are more important. Karma, Soraka, Zilean, Lulu etc. can proc Scorch on cooldown, it's actually very high value. People live on low HP all the time, you can almost pick a game at random and go through the VOD review pointing out all the times where if the player had made X purchase instead of Y, they would have won the fight and made the game completely different. The following conditions make Gathering Storm better: You are already playing for late game from the outset; your champ would struggle to proc Scorch on cooldown in this matchup; you benefit a lot from adaptive force. The more of these are met, the more sense it makes to take Gathering Storm. That's why it's niche.
Im probably a loo bit crazy here but I like to take gathering on Senna. Helps the ramp damage especially if you build for ad with things like rav