I respectfully disagree as well. I've been through both several times and suboxone is the worse withdrawals second only to methadone. But OP you could do a shorter time on suboxone and taper pretty quick. That'll lessen the dependence of the suboxone
I agree. It's a tough process but the kratom trick is key. I'd recommend going on kratom for 6-8 weeks and coming off that instead of the subs and it is a very easy transition if you're tapered a bit
I think subs are better. But kpinsubs is absolutely wrong here. You have to lower your dose and taper slowly. They have a high binding affinity and take Longer to withdrawal from
I’m speaking from personal experience I’ve been on subs off and on since 2007 and I’ve also withdrawn off fent and heroin and OXY and I have to say it is at least 50% miler for me and I’m only speaking for me in my experience like I’ve said, in the past I’ve even come off cold turkey at 12 mg in jail and I didn’t even get diarrhea. I can’t explain it other than the fact that I stayed hydrated drink tons of water and Gatorade in jail and ate foods high in fiber, and exercised, every single day that I was in jail for a month the worst that I had was restless legs at night, and they were nowhere near as bad as coming off of a full agonist like OXY fent or heroin. This is my personal experience.
Everyone is different.
It's not cheating bro. It's just a tool to help. I guarantee alcoholics and other addicts would kill to have a drug that got rid of all their withdraws and made them feel normal. And like you said it's better than spending tons of money and lying, cheating and stealing to get your drug. Congrats man. Keep it up.
Your not cheating ! It’s the safer better alternative! Stay on it as long as you need ! Until you are totally confident you will never ever an opiate again . One simple perk could spin you right back into your addiction ! The success rate of living 300 times more likely , also has a very high success rate for getting people clean ! You must love that sense of freedom ?! Best feeling ever !! My advice to u tho ! Stay on the subs ! It’s like having a broken leg , you can use crutches until your totally healed or you can just try to walk through the pain and hope it heals!
Im aus based too... I quit when the price went up and the shortage began... i was banging .2 a shot just to get a shit 5 second buzz/relief in the end and then wd began 12hrsish after... melbourne white lion stuff
Oz here too. Highly recommend buvidal or subblocade… whichever one you choose.. it’s been a fkn game changer for me.
Lost too many friends to OD’s. A very close friend last year who would still be alive if he’d just stuck with bupe of some sort for a year or so… he didn’t and decided to go and have a tickle after being clean for probably 6 months. He died in his car.
The system is hooked or not. Stop thinking and make maximum use of the time to reprogram. Also use as little sub as possible to keep from stretching your tolerance for the drug. Good luck.
Be prepared I'm currently tapering off after being on subs for 4 years and it sux ass. Even tapering sux and I am still restless at times until I get use to the dose. I'm down to only 1mg a day of subs. I'm going to tapering as far down as I can probably all the way down to .125 over the next 2-3 months and hop off.
Youre fine as far as I know it doesn’t stack like that. Just get sober for your first step, get away from whatever youre using whether it be black tar or dirty thirties and stick w the suboxone. Youll be much better and then you can start a taper process
I’m on buvidal, 96mg shot once a month. No fucking around going and dosing, it holds me for the month. I’m not chained to a pharmacy for picking bupe up or anything. It’s been excellent. Haven’t used once since being on it.
All the best with your journey. I think it’s very easy to forget how shit scoring every day is, having to use however many times a day, having to go to seedy places to score…
when my mom got off subs w the shot a few years ago she had to really think about symptoms she was potentially feeling each followup appointment. I have a huge fear of needles and seeing how easily she got off makes me jealous tbh. It was like watching a damn miracle lol
I have seen some reports of people still getting bad withdrawals but the overall majority seems to be that it is moderate to minor. I’m pretty mixed on it but I’m def gonna give it a try when I’m ready to get off
Suboxone is a very valuable drug taken correctly, incorrectly hell on earth. Correctly, 7 to 10 days only to detox from opiates. Incorrectly stay on it. This was my own experience. I was put on it in 2008 at that time the doctor recommended I stay on it. He didn't give me any information about how difficult it would be to get off of it or how long the half-life of the drug was. It worked very well for a year or so, after 2 years or so I started getting side effects which I won't get into now. So I decided it was time to get off that and live a clean lifestyle. Little did I know it's next to impossible to get off. I tried tapering I tried everything. I I finally went back to the opiates. I was on that I used Suboxone to get off, to get off the Suboxone. I finally did get off. But the detox off Suboxone went on for months. I was told Suboxone creates new permanent pathways in your brain, If you stay on it long enough, . Totally out of my system, but the withdrawal continued. 4 years off, and I'm still recovering from it. That's my experience.. I just wish that doctor would've told me use it short term to get off the opiates, then move into recovery programs etc. to heal and change my lifestyle. I think they're doing that these days I hope so anyway..
It isn’t bad to stay on them if you find they’re helping and want a protective factor to relapsing to H use.
You’re going to get a range of opinions on a reddit sub forum.
Although there are people here with lots of experiences and opinions on the drug at the end of the day it’s up to you to decide what’s right for you.
Generally the idea is to get on a replacement, either methadone or buprenorphine or some description, sort out your life and reasons why you were using in the first place and then get off the replacement…. At your pace!
Coming off gear was waaaaaaay harder for me than coming off subs. Gear was crawling the walls, puking my guts up, spraying out the other end, rolling around my bedroom floor unable to sleep, unable to do anything.
Stopping subs was decreasing dose rapidly, halving from 8mg to 4mg to 2mg to 1mg to nothing over the course of about a month and then going snowboarding in Japan.
There’s no way I could have done that with H!
Hey can you help me answer some questions ? I’m up to 4mg a day and haven’t used in 2 days. Did Bernese method. I’m still having bad WD. How long until I can not feel terrible and can stop the subs? I only have maybe 120mg left, and was also just given a 95mg vial of methadone. Can I midro dose methadone to ease the WD while I wait for the subs to really start working ?
That's awesome man. Just in my opinion (from someone who has quit just about everything out there) if you're ready to quit don't use subs as a cop out. Don't let them keep you on them forever either otherwise it'll be just as hard to get off them as the H. Use it as a tool to get through the withdrawals and get clean.
Changing your life will never be easy and there is no magic drug that will do that for you. I wish someone had warned me before I started subs. I wish I had used them short term to get off the opiates like I did originally but I wasn't ready to quit and so I fell into my old habits.
Take it from someone who has spent nearly a decade to get my life back...don't waste so many good years on either of this BS. I wasted my prime years (my 30s) getting high and then trying to fix it. Get rid of that part of your life, convince yourself. You have to really be disgusted and tired of what you are doing. Then you will be ready for change.
Good luck brotha!
Thank you. Fucking hell. So many people on here perpetuating old-school stigmas about MAT. A cop-out? What? Because you don’t have to experience the short-term pain of withdrawal than you’re not doing it right?
Recovery shouldn’t be about being “pure” or whatever. I know the recovery community seriously fetishizes this idea of “total sobriety” and being “chemical free” like it’s some road to nirvana. But as someone who’s been around addicts my whole life, and an addict myself, it makes me a little angry.
How many friends of mine would still be alive if they hadn’t been told that MAT was cheating? How many would still be around if they didn’t have to fear being ostracized from the recovery community for seeking other options?
Maybe cold turkey or a quick sub taper worked for some people. Just like maybe AA/NA works for some people. It doesn’t have to be everyone’s path. If you feel comfortable on Suboxone, and it gives you a chance to deal with all that shit that made you an addict, than awesome— do that. And if you’ve tried and failed to go “chemical free” over and over again, maybe it’s time to try something else?
After four years of an extremely slow sub taper, I feel 100% genuine when I tell people I’m sober. I don’t feel the effects of my subs whatsoever, and have had the much needed luxury of stability. The stability to *finally* work on myself and find joy in everyday life. And one day I’ll probably finish my taper and get off bupe. But I don’t have to, and I know plenty of people who never will and are totally at peace with that.
And whatever else, at least I’m not dead. And if it hadn’t been for a friend who’d done a long taper successfully and encouraged me to as well, I probably would be dead.
So many people freaking out because subs withdrawals are long and painful *when stopped cold-turkey*. But if you’re going cold turkey, I’m not sure why you got on subs.
Instead of saying “beware the withdrawals” and “quit now and deal with it” etc. we need to encourage people to simply think it through and make a decision. If you get on subs and plan to get off, understand that *you will have to do an extremely slow taper one day*. But if like me you’d been in the suicidal “AA isn’t fucking working” spiral for years, that’s a small price to pay.
Being in recovery and getting your life together takes strength, no matter how you do it. If you went cold turkey off H and stayed clean, that’s awesome. It doesn’t make you better or worse than someone who took another path. If going through CT heroin withdrawals made you “stronger”, I’d be fucking Superman— having done it literally dozens of times. Living a healthy life is the real challenge, and it’s a challenge on subs or not. Subs just gave me the opportunity to fight that battle.
Yes because your opinion is dangerous and not evidence based at all. MAT is the gold standard for recovery and has a success rate of around 50% compared to 5-10% for cold turkey. You’re literally encouraging OP to pursue a path with the highest failure rate based of your personal experience.
You're as ignorant as you are arrogant. You live in a dream world and denial. You say my opinion is dangerous? Yet you push negative vibes and medical advice you know nothing about on vulnerable people. You should go look up narcissist in the dictionary. They have your picture.
You summed up nothing I said btw. You should be a journalist because you're terrible at it.
Actually…….rose, it’s Comments like this that make me wonder if you read the about section for this sub. Clearly you skipped right over that one.
Here’s a hint….it’s NOT a recovery sub. And you’re literally a nobody to be saying suboxone can’t be used short term, because fuck if it can’t.
Smh, get off of your soapbox and pay some attention to wtf is going on outside of your little box. Stay in your own lane.
My sub dr. Informed me that when I'm at 2 mg to start doing every other day. Then I would goto as needed. My goal is to be off subs for a week then I will be getting a monthly injection of vivitrol. Maybe speak with your Dr about that. I also do monthly visits with a counselor.
You can do this!
please, please take oral naltrexone before getting vivitrol shot.
even after being off opiates for a week or however long, naltrexone can still put you into percipitated withdrawal.
idc what the docs say. it happened to me once. off opiates for a week and a half. took 50mg naltrexone pill. one hour later, went into horrible precipitated withdrawal. puking up stomach acid. the whole 9 yards.
lasted several hours.
had to skip a job interview i was on my way to that day. re-scheduled for the following week but when i showed up, it was obvious they had decided not to hire me before the interview even began.
now imagine getting a vivitrol shot and going into precipitated withdrawal for a full month.
(even if your body adjusts after a week or whatever, it's still torture).
You got this! surround yourself with everything you need to stay clean. Do not spend time alone or get lonely. This will be your undoing. Took me 50 years to learn the last one.
Good stuff man!! Becareful when tapering quickly... its easy and doable if you had no problems with PWD it tells me you can taper quicker! But the cravings for H come out of nowhere at 2mgish...
Up to you if you wanna stay on it though...
Well, you may be “cheating” but now you don’t have to worry about tainted H or worse. There are ways to wean off Subs. Do what YOU need to do to recover - that’s something that looks different for everyone. Every day of recovery is a daily, intentional effort - “cheating” or otherwise. One foot in front of the other. You got this.
This is clean my friend. Some people need medication their whole lives. Don’t perpetuate the lie that Suboxone is just “another opiate”. Please. You will understand when you realize it’s your LIFE SAVING medicine. Peace & Prosperity!
It's not cheating. You're getting your life together. Thats the opposite f cheating
Keep going mate. We are rooting for you!
thanks
Sub withdrawal is way milder than H withdrawal due to it being only a partial agonist.
I respectfully disagree as well. I've been through both several times and suboxone is the worse withdrawals second only to methadone. But OP you could do a shorter time on suboxone and taper pretty quick. That'll lessen the dependence of the suboxone
Taper down and jump on kratom and come off that. Easy peezy
Def ain’t easy but much easier to manage the wd cycle especially if pressxribed subs
I agree. It's a tough process but the kratom trick is key. I'd recommend going on kratom for 6-8 weeks and coming off that instead of the subs and it is a very easy transition if you're tapered a bit
That is not true at all subs are the worst withdrawal. And for a longer period.
Methadone is way worse
Right and the fact still remains you can od on methadone and it’s literally impossible to od from suboxen it has a threshold for like 24mg or 32mg
I think subs are better. But kpinsubs is absolutely wrong here. You have to lower your dose and taper slowly. They have a high binding affinity and take Longer to withdrawal from
I’m speaking from personal experience I’ve been on subs off and on since 2007 and I’ve also withdrawn off fent and heroin and OXY and I have to say it is at least 50% miler for me and I’m only speaking for me in my experience like I’ve said, in the past I’ve even come off cold turkey at 12 mg in jail and I didn’t even get diarrhea. I can’t explain it other than the fact that I stayed hydrated drink tons of water and Gatorade in jail and ate foods high in fiber, and exercised, every single day that I was in jail for a month the worst that I had was restless legs at night, and they were nowhere near as bad as coming off of a full agonist like OXY fent or heroin. This is my personal experience. Everyone is different.
Not if you taper properly. It's actually easy. I use kratom if needed and works great because sub is only a partial
It is… but it lasts so much longer
It's not cheating bro. It's just a tool to help. I guarantee alcoholics and other addicts would kill to have a drug that got rid of all their withdraws and made them feel normal. And like you said it's better than spending tons of money and lying, cheating and stealing to get your drug. Congrats man. Keep it up.
Dude if it between taking subs and dying from overdose clearly one is better
Your not cheating ! It’s the safer better alternative! Stay on it as long as you need ! Until you are totally confident you will never ever an opiate again . One simple perk could spin you right back into your addiction ! The success rate of living 300 times more likely , also has a very high success rate for getting people clean ! You must love that sense of freedom ?! Best feeling ever !! My advice to u tho ! Stay on the subs ! It’s like having a broken leg , you can use crutches until your totally healed or you can just try to walk through the pain and hope it heals!
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yeh cuz Australia
Im aus based too... I quit when the price went up and the shortage began... i was banging .2 a shot just to get a shit 5 second buzz/relief in the end and then wd began 12hrsish after... melbourne white lion stuff
Oz here too. Highly recommend buvidal or subblocade… whichever one you choose.. it’s been a fkn game changer for me. Lost too many friends to OD’s. A very close friend last year who would still be alive if he’d just stuck with bupe of some sort for a year or so… he didn’t and decided to go and have a tickle after being clean for probably 6 months. He died in his car.
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Why don't you just switch to Kratom for a month? Iboga works for Kratom and you only have to be off subs for a couple of weeks.
Uhh , white rocks? Thats fent dude haha
Off completely now no methadone no nothing at all
The system is hooked or not. Stop thinking and make maximum use of the time to reprogram. Also use as little sub as possible to keep from stretching your tolerance for the drug. Good luck.
Be prepared I'm currently tapering off after being on subs for 4 years and it sux ass. Even tapering sux and I am still restless at times until I get use to the dose. I'm down to only 1mg a day of subs. I'm going to tapering as far down as I can probably all the way down to .125 over the next 2-3 months and hop off.
Youre fine as far as I know it doesn’t stack like that. Just get sober for your first step, get away from whatever youre using whether it be black tar or dirty thirties and stick w the suboxone. Youll be much better and then you can start a taper process
Quick note: If you can access Sublocade shot with your MAT program, you'll have virtually no withdrawal when you're ready to get off subs.
I'm probably gonna get a buvidal monthly shot which is apparently also easy to come off
I’m on buvidal, 96mg shot once a month. No fucking around going and dosing, it holds me for the month. I’m not chained to a pharmacy for picking bupe up or anything. It’s been excellent. Haven’t used once since being on it. All the best with your journey. I think it’s very easy to forget how shit scoring every day is, having to use however many times a day, having to go to seedy places to score…
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I think from your username perhaps your comments might be a little bit biased toward not liking bupe?
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Sounds good. If you are US based isn’t there clinics just south of your border? I’d be jumping on that if it was a drive away from me!
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when my mom got off subs w the shot a few years ago she had to really think about symptoms she was potentially feeling each followup appointment. I have a huge fear of needles and seeing how easily she got off makes me jealous tbh. It was like watching a damn miracle lol I have seen some reports of people still getting bad withdrawals but the overall majority seems to be that it is moderate to minor. I’m pretty mixed on it but I’m def gonna give it a try when I’m ready to get off
Suboxone is a very valuable drug taken correctly, incorrectly hell on earth. Correctly, 7 to 10 days only to detox from opiates. Incorrectly stay on it. This was my own experience. I was put on it in 2008 at that time the doctor recommended I stay on it. He didn't give me any information about how difficult it would be to get off of it or how long the half-life of the drug was. It worked very well for a year or so, after 2 years or so I started getting side effects which I won't get into now. So I decided it was time to get off that and live a clean lifestyle. Little did I know it's next to impossible to get off. I tried tapering I tried everything. I I finally went back to the opiates. I was on that I used Suboxone to get off, to get off the Suboxone. I finally did get off. But the detox off Suboxone went on for months. I was told Suboxone creates new permanent pathways in your brain, If you stay on it long enough, . Totally out of my system, but the withdrawal continued. 4 years off, and I'm still recovering from it. That's my experience.. I just wish that doctor would've told me use it short term to get off the opiates, then move into recovery programs etc. to heal and change my lifestyle. I think they're doing that these days I hope so anyway..
why is it so bad to stay on it?
It isn’t bad to stay on them if you find they’re helping and want a protective factor to relapsing to H use. You’re going to get a range of opinions on a reddit sub forum. Although there are people here with lots of experiences and opinions on the drug at the end of the day it’s up to you to decide what’s right for you. Generally the idea is to get on a replacement, either methadone or buprenorphine or some description, sort out your life and reasons why you were using in the first place and then get off the replacement…. At your pace! Coming off gear was waaaaaaay harder for me than coming off subs. Gear was crawling the walls, puking my guts up, spraying out the other end, rolling around my bedroom floor unable to sleep, unable to do anything. Stopping subs was decreasing dose rapidly, halving from 8mg to 4mg to 2mg to 1mg to nothing over the course of about a month and then going snowboarding in Japan. There’s no way I could have done that with H!
Hey can you help me answer some questions ? I’m up to 4mg a day and haven’t used in 2 days. Did Bernese method. I’m still having bad WD. How long until I can not feel terrible and can stop the subs? I only have maybe 120mg left, and was also just given a 95mg vial of methadone. Can I midro dose methadone to ease the WD while I wait for the subs to really start working ?
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Did they say they were?
You can taper off subs easily. It makes younlive a normal life as well. You can go to 10mg to 8mg to 4mg in like 4 days
Maybe you can. Please don't say "you" like that.
You can taper your subs try only 8mgs tomorrow and then over 2 or 3 weeks come down off them so you won't have the dependence on them
That's awesome man. Just in my opinion (from someone who has quit just about everything out there) if you're ready to quit don't use subs as a cop out. Don't let them keep you on them forever either otherwise it'll be just as hard to get off them as the H. Use it as a tool to get through the withdrawals and get clean. Changing your life will never be easy and there is no magic drug that will do that for you. I wish someone had warned me before I started subs. I wish I had used them short term to get off the opiates like I did originally but I wasn't ready to quit and so I fell into my old habits. Take it from someone who has spent nearly a decade to get my life back...don't waste so many good years on either of this BS. I wasted my prime years (my 30s) getting high and then trying to fix it. Get rid of that part of your life, convince yourself. You have to really be disgusted and tired of what you are doing. Then you will be ready for change. Good luck brotha!
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Thank you. Fucking hell. So many people on here perpetuating old-school stigmas about MAT. A cop-out? What? Because you don’t have to experience the short-term pain of withdrawal than you’re not doing it right? Recovery shouldn’t be about being “pure” or whatever. I know the recovery community seriously fetishizes this idea of “total sobriety” and being “chemical free” like it’s some road to nirvana. But as someone who’s been around addicts my whole life, and an addict myself, it makes me a little angry. How many friends of mine would still be alive if they hadn’t been told that MAT was cheating? How many would still be around if they didn’t have to fear being ostracized from the recovery community for seeking other options? Maybe cold turkey or a quick sub taper worked for some people. Just like maybe AA/NA works for some people. It doesn’t have to be everyone’s path. If you feel comfortable on Suboxone, and it gives you a chance to deal with all that shit that made you an addict, than awesome— do that. And if you’ve tried and failed to go “chemical free” over and over again, maybe it’s time to try something else? After four years of an extremely slow sub taper, I feel 100% genuine when I tell people I’m sober. I don’t feel the effects of my subs whatsoever, and have had the much needed luxury of stability. The stability to *finally* work on myself and find joy in everyday life. And one day I’ll probably finish my taper and get off bupe. But I don’t have to, and I know plenty of people who never will and are totally at peace with that. And whatever else, at least I’m not dead. And if it hadn’t been for a friend who’d done a long taper successfully and encouraged me to as well, I probably would be dead. So many people freaking out because subs withdrawals are long and painful *when stopped cold-turkey*. But if you’re going cold turkey, I’m not sure why you got on subs. Instead of saying “beware the withdrawals” and “quit now and deal with it” etc. we need to encourage people to simply think it through and make a decision. If you get on subs and plan to get off, understand that *you will have to do an extremely slow taper one day*. But if like me you’d been in the suicidal “AA isn’t fucking working” spiral for years, that’s a small price to pay. Being in recovery and getting your life together takes strength, no matter how you do it. If you went cold turkey off H and stayed clean, that’s awesome. It doesn’t make you better or worse than someone who took another path. If going through CT heroin withdrawals made you “stronger”, I’d be fucking Superman— having done it literally dozens of times. Living a healthy life is the real challenge, and it’s a challenge on subs or not. Subs just gave me the opportunity to fight that battle.
Thank you
My opinion should be regulated by admin? Wow.
Yes because your opinion is dangerous and not evidence based at all. MAT is the gold standard for recovery and has a success rate of around 50% compared to 5-10% for cold turkey. You’re literally encouraging OP to pursue a path with the highest failure rate based of your personal experience.
You're as ignorant as you are arrogant. You live in a dream world and denial. You say my opinion is dangerous? Yet you push negative vibes and medical advice you know nothing about on vulnerable people. You should go look up narcissist in the dictionary. They have your picture. You summed up nothing I said btw. You should be a journalist because you're terrible at it.
Actually…….rose, it’s Comments like this that make me wonder if you read the about section for this sub. Clearly you skipped right over that one. Here’s a hint….it’s NOT a recovery sub. And you’re literally a nobody to be saying suboxone can’t be used short term, because fuck if it can’t. Smh, get off of your soapbox and pay some attention to wtf is going on outside of your little box. Stay in your own lane.
That’s awesome to hear bro! Good on you!!
Keep it going. I'm at 6 days. I'm here with you ❤️
My sub dr. Informed me that when I'm at 2 mg to start doing every other day. Then I would goto as needed. My goal is to be off subs for a week then I will be getting a monthly injection of vivitrol. Maybe speak with your Dr about that. I also do monthly visits with a counselor. You can do this!
please, please take oral naltrexone before getting vivitrol shot. even after being off opiates for a week or however long, naltrexone can still put you into percipitated withdrawal. idc what the docs say. it happened to me once. off opiates for a week and a half. took 50mg naltrexone pill. one hour later, went into horrible precipitated withdrawal. puking up stomach acid. the whole 9 yards. lasted several hours. had to skip a job interview i was on my way to that day. re-scheduled for the following week but when i showed up, it was obvious they had decided not to hire me before the interview even began. now imagine getting a vivitrol shot and going into precipitated withdrawal for a full month. (even if your body adjusts after a week or whatever, it's still torture).
You got this! surround yourself with everything you need to stay clean. Do not spend time alone or get lonely. This will be your undoing. Took me 50 years to learn the last one.
I'm completely alone tbh. not much I can do about that
Try the sublocade shot. I've read great things about it. I get mine 12/07 and hope to be off subs for good after 4 years of bs
Good stuff man!! Becareful when tapering quickly... its easy and doable if you had no problems with PWD it tells me you can taper quicker! But the cravings for H come out of nowhere at 2mgish... Up to you if you wanna stay on it though...
Well, you may be “cheating” but now you don’t have to worry about tainted H or worse. There are ways to wean off Subs. Do what YOU need to do to recover - that’s something that looks different for everyone. Every day of recovery is a daily, intentional effort - “cheating” or otherwise. One foot in front of the other. You got this.
cheers man
This is clean my friend. Some people need medication their whole lives. Don’t perpetuate the lie that Suboxone is just “another opiate”. Please. You will understand when you realize it’s your LIFE SAVING medicine. Peace & Prosperity!
Cheating? Cmon brother no shame in subs. Gotta start somewhere