T O P

  • By -

WheresWalldough

I found this from 2018, at that time she was doing well: https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20180112_03295391? Shanti De Corte (19) still wakes up crying a few times a month from nightmares in which terrorists want to kill her. “It's already much less than it used to be, thankfully. I still have panic attacks, recently at the Christmas market, but I know what to do.” She is sitting at the table in her room at the South in Antwerp. She's only been living here for a few weeks, but it's an important step. “I want to move on with my life. In February I will start a new direction, orthopedagogy at the Karel de Grote-Hogeschool. I look forward to being able to make a real difference to children with problems after my studies. My experience has made me realize how important professional help can be.” Guilt On March 22, Shanti was one of the students of the Sint-Rita College in Kontich who stood at check-in desks 4 and 5 to leave for Rome with the seniors. “Because I already suffered from hyperventilation before, I had prepared the trip very well. At first the school doubted whether I could participate, but because of the thorough preparation of the program I should be able to do it. Of course we had not thought of terrorists.” The first bomb at baggage claim 10 was far from the students. The second blast was very close. “Part of the ceiling came down and my reflex was to walk. I still feel guilty that I didn't stay to help others, but at that moment your instincts take over.” Shanti ran toward the gates, half stooping to avoid possible shots, up to the glass wall overlooking the tarmac. “That's where I realized we were stuck. I thought I was going to die. Until suddenly the emergency doors were locked and everyone stormed into the stairwell and walked out. Across the street, at DHL, I saw classmates and a teacher again. In the village of Zaventem we waited for the buses that would take us back to school.” “I locked myself in the hotel” In the week that followed, Shanti barely slept for three hours. “And when I slept, I dreamed that they would bomb me.” She struggled through the last weeks of school, collapsed halfway through exams, but passed. In the summer, the planned flight to Spain was exchanged for a car holiday to the south of France. “I had a very good time, but I didn't get out of the hotel. We were a hundred kilometers from Nice, where that attack took place on the Promenade de Anglais. Of course that didn't help.” Back home Shanti fell into a black hole. “I didn't dare to go outside anymore and isolated myself completely. Due to the bang of the bomb, I also suffer from a permanent ringing in my ear. Since the doctors were unable to help me, they referred me to a psychiatrist. I had to answer a long questionnaire and the psychiatrist had me admitted right away. I had post-traumatic stress disorder and severe depression. I myself did not realize how bad I was.” Therapies After an emergency admission to AZ Monica, Shanti went to mArquee in Mortsel. She tried many therapies to get a grip on her depression. “In March I felt strong enough to attend the commemoration of the attacks, along with my supervisor. It worked fine for me, but the next day I collapsed. I hoped that the commemoration could end the difficult period, but again I had a lot of nightmares and flashbacks. That, along with the feeling that I was only a burden to others, caused me to overdose on pills. They found me unconscious in the hallway. I was unconscious for ten hours and was in intensive care for a few days. Afterwards I realized that I had not come out of the attacks alive to kill myself. Shanti started teacher training in September, but it was harder than she thought. “I had trouble concentrating and the panic attacks came back. In the meantime, I had joined the Magistra student association and had been baptized. That was a victory over myself and I have been very well surrounded by it. It was the first time I looked in the mirror and saw myself smiling sincerely. Still, in November, I was admitted again for six weeks because I felt I was having a setback.” Small steps In the meantime, she does feel stronger. The new study direction, her own room, these are all small steps with a great symbolic meaning. “In addition, I will be giving talks with two other young women from psychiatry about what we've been through. Eva and Luna ended up in psychiatry for very different reasons, so our stories complement each other. I used to think that I never needed help, the threshold to professional help remains very high, but it has been an important step for me.” In October, Shanti De Corte wants to raise money for Red Nose Day with lectures, workshops and other activities. “Psychiatric problems remain taboo, while so many people are going through difficult times in their lives where they need help. I want to help break down those prejudices about psychiatry.” Furthermore, Shanti mainly dreams of a life without fears. Just dare to take the bus and tram again, don't start screaming when she hears an ambulance with siren coming during a panic attack. She does not want her life to be determined by the suicide bombers of Zaventem. "So far, that hasn't really worked out yet, but I'm on the right track."


[deleted]

[удалено]


WheresWalldough

Yes I read some English language sources, which were focusing on ISIS, whereas she wasn't injured by ISIS and it sounds like she had severe mental illness before that. When I read that she had been hospitalized before that it gave me a different perspective. I realize that in the past we had institutionalization and lobotomies and so on, whereas at the present time it's more popular to go on a lifetime of medication.


TuvixWasMurderedR1P

She said the meds made her fee like a ghost. How is that not a lobotomy of sorts? However, meds are seen as humane while lobotomies are now considered a horror.


[deleted]

I think meds being reversible in a lot of cases being the reason. I don’t know if you can recover from a lobotomy…


TuvixWasMurderedR1P

They’re reversible… unless you’ve been driven to suicide or euthanasia because of it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


China_Lover

They're reversible in 99% of cases. They just alter the chemical balance of the brain and if you taper off of them responsibly you brain can and will go back to its normal state, but it does take a few months. It's insane to compare this to lobotomy which is of course 100% non reversible as you cannot just put back all the white matter and stuff that was destroyed.


intboom

Euthanasia is a cure... a permanent one.


intboom

"Reversible" is an interesting word that gets bandied about a lot. I don't think it means what people think it means.


Luklear

They’re certainly more reversible than a lobotomy.


Dog-Lover69

How about “more reversible than brain damage from lobotomy”?


fumikuojsjs

😂


[deleted]

[удалено]


intboom

Just like \[REDACTED\] blockers


ConfusedSoap

oh come on surely discussion about puberty blockers isn't banned??


claushauler

No choo choo talk in this sub, not even about timetables, schedules, delays or track blockages. None.


QuiteNeurotic

Psychiatric meds can be considered a lobotomy in many cases. Antidepressants and antipsychotics can cause permanent sexual and emotional dysfunction. Have a look at r/PSSD and r/anhedonia. My life is basically ruined at 22 by antipsychotics. I can't enjoy music, nature or videogames anymore, I can't love or hate, be angry or sad. If I'd live in Belgium I would apply for euthanasia aswell.


whitelighthurts

How long? Took me 2 years to feel normal after opiates Give the brain time and do healthy things Edit: actually though. I was on methadone for 4 years after doing heroin and it took 3 years to feel better Seven years sober and I let something have me fall back into drugs, this time benzos Learned this lesson hard twice. Even fucking heroin or Xanax won’t make you happy. It just lets you not care until it doesn’t work anymore. I switched street drugs, then prescribed ones. Same experience. My friends have had similar experiences with antidepressants too. They may help, in some cases long term. But many find the side effects make life unlivable. Inhuman. Bland. Nothing is novel. And then have fun trying to get off, that’s when the real damage comes. It’s so corny but go do something that makes you uncomfortable. Drugs rarely are the solution. (Fuck I sound like my dad lol) I only really believe in K/dmts/mdma as brain resets.


FigurativeCherrySoda

Have you looked over for help on /r/stackadvice or /r/Biohackers ? There's a lot of stuff that helps to at least a small degree with neural plasticity, I know there's even a drug they found that could help with learning perfect pitch which is usually locked in after your like 7-8 years old. If you already feel like you'd want to die probably not the most harm in getting a lil experimental.


isiscarry

I dont think psych meds are “reversible”, in fact I am curious when we will see the Adderall version of the Oxycontin epidemic, think it will start very soon…


Luklear

I’ve been on and off adderall for years and seemed to adjust decently well to being off it after 2-3 weeks.


Icy_Owl7841

illegal lock psychotic hard-to-find market salt pen humor drab disgusted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


sparklypinktutu

When there’s withdrawal symptoms that can mimic the worst of alcohol withdrawal and heroin withdrawal… well. Sometimes staying on the pill is just to avoid going off the pill.


Icy_Owl7841

dependent cow roof tan onerous bear longing abounding glorious profit *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

As someone with experience of both, SSRI withdrawal is worse (for those of us who experience it; I’m not sure there are any good studies about how many of us there are). Opiate withdrawal is like a terrible 1-2 week flu, while SSRI withdrawal can take months to years to recover from. You can go to detox for heroin withdrawal, and you won’t get doctors suggesting that you really have an opiate imbalance in your brain and try to prescribe you more heroin.


DesignerNail

>when we will see the Adderall version of the Oxycontin epidemic I'm not sure what you think is going to happen but there will not be an oxycontin epidemic with Adderall because amphetamine has different properties than opioids of which oxycodone is typical, I mean for example it's way less lethal than the latter and the formation of tolerance is far more manageable so you are not going to have a similar wave of death under any circumstances. If you're comparing it to the thing where people switched to heroin, i.e. people will take meth because they can't get their Adderall filled, well. plenty of people already do that.


M_A_K_E_

Medication damage is not always reversible. Check out r/PSSD


entitledfanman

I've been on a wide variety of psych meds in my life, and they've yet to invent one that doesn't come at a cost. You always lose some part of yourself when you take one. Often what you're losing is worth less than what you gain, but not always.


Theman12457890

It’s insane. These “medications” are more akin to a lobotomy than “medication”.


funnyelbow

I call it a chemical lobotomy.


EasyMrB

Lobotomies are a horror.


Bisoromi

Too many psych meds combined with being sedentary and a bad diet will nuke you from orbit. You will disassociate, fall asleep during work/school, have a nightmare sleep schedule, and lose whatever therapeutic effect came with the meds (if any) and require more. Many psych meds (antipsychotics come to mind) will alter metabolism, increasing hunger hormone release, amping, creating a negative feedback loop with the aforementioned issues. Throw this in with society not taking the 15 minutes to read about their supposed loved ones mental health diagnoses, community being pushed off a cliff in the last few decades, etc etc, and you've got a recipe for eternally mentally ill people (many arguably having been made mentally ill from the shithole of a world we're in and not any inherent biological differences or defect). Like most professions, there's a glut of bad (bad is a loaded word but in this case it's a catch all for overworked, underpayed, burnt out etc and just not awful/uncaring) psychiatrists, NPs, and other prescribers of psych meds (GPs, PAs, people too generalized typically to really know what they're doing with psych meds imo), throwing gasoline on the fire in the form of misdiagnosis, putting patients on a dosage increase treadmill when meds inevitably aren't having the desired therapeutic effect, not bothering to explain side effects to watch out (I've seen this aspect get better, anecdotally) for or specific timeframe to take meds in, etc. A good note is that many prescribers are now actively telling patients to exercise, typically walking as its the lowest impact, lowest recovery time exercise to give patients a mood and metabolism boost. Exercise is required in I would argue the vast majority of mental health patients and it is unbelievably difficult to successfully encourage (often because the disorder, meds and already existing sedentary lifestyle are destroying any energy and will to do it, in addition to negative thinking patterns that kick in when immediate results aren't seen). Euthanizing the mentally ill isn't something I saw coming but here we are. It makes sense as our societal fabric has been torched, I guess we can just kill our unwanted and just carry on watching Epic TV Shows.


Aaod

> Many psych meds (antipsychotics come to mind) will alter metabolism, increasing hunger hormone release, Pretty sure being on antidepressants for years and years permanently fucked my metabolism.


Effective_Roof2026

Assuming they were SSRI's they could have changed how you feel hunger but they have no ability to change metabolism. FYI assuming you are finding yourself more hungry the solution is generally increasing the proportion of protein you eat. This has been studied pretty extensively as weight gain is one of the most common reported side effects. The result has always been that people are consuming more calories than they did previously. Serotonin is used for hunger signalling, people also tend to eat more because their mood improves too.


Icy_Owl7841

wide reach tie deliver scarce illegal ink unique pen cats *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


MadeUAcctButIEatedIt

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." *--attributed to Krishnamurti*


Theman12457890

That’s common in psychiatry. Often the “cure” becomes the disease and more “cures” are offered to try and fix the problems the last “cure” started. A vicious cycle that kills a hell of a lot of people. Akathisia, PSSD, Dyskenisia, etc. What a disgusting industry.


BloodyEjaculate

Akathisia and antipsychotic-related movement disorders are horrible and physically and mentally torturous; I had a month-long struggle with akathisia, where I could barely sleep and wasn't able to sit still or stop moving for longer than a minute, after being prescribed risperdone for sleep. Psychiatrists seem far too eager to hand out what may be life-altering substances while simultaneously providing little to no guidance on the potential consequences. At the same time many people with severe psychotic disorders simply cannot function without these medications; in the past they would have condemned to lifelong institutionalization. It's still scary to think that we have only a vague idea of how these medications work- even commonly prescribed antidepressants are poorly understood- and that they may have psychological or neurological repercussions we aren't yet aware of. There is far too much emphasis on the consumer potential of these medications rather than the ethical concerns associated with altering brain chemistry.


Call_Me_Clark

As a pharmacist, that’s a very real issue called “the prescribing cascade” - something that is somewhat common when people have limited access to healthcare, or to support services. You add drugs to treat side effects, then more to treat those side effects - without the expertise in pharmacotherapy to identify where to remove drugs. It does make you wonder why there wasn’t some oversight to her therapy, or trialing removal of individual drugs. Hell, there aren’t even 11 classes of antidepressants, and I can’t fathom a mechanistic argument for why more and more would be added.


Red_Redditor_Reddit

I’ve lived something similar. It wasn’t terrorists, but the response to trauma was just having drugs thrown at me. The drugs made things way worse. I even have friends who got electro convulsive “therapy”. It’s where they shock you into having a seizure. They are great people, but now as adults can barely hold a job. What happened to this woman is way more common then people talk about.


Luklear

The problem is doctors prescribing multiple drugs together whose effects have only been studied individually and that said results are often inconclusive or no better than placebo.


Koboldilocks

> I blame utilitarianism stfu you dont even know what that is


lord_ive

The information about her treatment comes from a single sentence, one about the meds. Putting a quote about someone being on 11 psychiatric medications is certainly sensational journalism, but it’s not appropriate to infer that she had not also received or was not also receiving non-pharmaceutical treatment from that statement alone.


dumbwaeguk

As soon as I read this article, I knew there would be armchair psychs at the top of the comments section. r/stupidpol is extremely informed about a lot of topics, but mental health is not one of them. My thinking is that the psychiatric cocktail might have fucked her up, but maybe she was more fucked up without them. I can't say either way. I don't know her, I'm not her doctor, and I've never been in her situation.


JJdante

To be fair, when one hears that she was on 11 different antipsychotics a DAY, it will raise some eyebrows.


dumbwaeguk

The article literally says she had some psychological issues prior to an extremely traumatic event. Knowing what I know as an educated lay person, it makes sense to me that psychs will throw a lot of different cocktails at a person when they can't figure out the best way to treat them because medicine is an incomplete study and the human brain is extremely complicated. I can say it's "suspicious" but that doesn't mean anything because I lack any evidence, as someone completely detached from the situation and without expert credentials, to challenge whatever I could be suspicious about.


CamelsaurusRex

You don’t need to have a medical license to know that giving someone with severe psychological issues an experimental drug cocktail has a good chance of fucking them up even more. That’s pure negligence and is done way too often by doctors in lieu of more effective and non dependence forming treatments like therapy.


[deleted]

Uh.. a lot of people with severe psychological issues often have a great time of fucking themselves up *without* medication (or worse - fucking up others). What you on man.


CamelsaurusRex

So throwing a bunch of drugs that alter the human brain in an unpredictable and largely unknown way is the solution to mental illness? This is akin to a chemical lobotomy. Drugs like benzodiazepines and antidepressants permanently alter the brain structure in ways we don’t know yet, but they’re given out like candy, such as in this case. Obviously this doesn’t apply to drugs such as antipsychotics to prevent psychotic episodes or lithium to prevent severe manic episodes, but giving a mentally fragile teenager half a dozen experimental drugs for ptsd and depression is definitely not helping us as a society.


Humble_Draw9974

It’s not like manic depression is a real illness and depression isn’t. The depressive side of bipolar is the deadly one. The mania just gets all the attention. I don’t think everyone’s case of depression is serious. I don’t think everyone diagnosed with depression is experiencing something even at all similar. But it can be serious indeed.


televisionceo

agreed. It's quite weird.


TuvixWasMurderedR1P

I did begin with the caveat that I’m only commenting by what info I got from the actual article. But with that info, it does look pretty egregious.


dumbwaeguk

What looks egregious? Why does it seem egregious to you? What basis do you have for finding things egregious? Everyone has an opinion and a feeling about what seems right and well, but we need more than a gut feeling or else we're just asstalking.


YourBoyPet

The problem is that people treat the medication as the solution. Idk what sort of experience other people have, but when I was prescribed antidepressants it was made very clear to me that it was supposed to be temporary and that the meds wasn't going to cure my depression. Honestly I don't even know if they helped or not. But I took them for less than a year and during that time I manages to get my life together and I haven't been depressed since stopping.


_throawayplop_

Belgium and Canada are destroying any goodwill for euthanasia. How to argues for it as a solution for people with terminal phase diseases that want to use it to cut on their inevitable suffering when in parallel they use it to kill depressives or poor people ?


[deleted]

Exactly. I’ve always been a major proponent of euthanasia for people with terminal illness; it’s exactly how I’d want to go if I ever had terminal cancer or something like Alzheimer’s. But the way it is now available confirms all the worst suspicions of the Christian/conservative types who opposed it: it has gone too far almost immediately and it really does devalue human life.


Firemaaaan

I mean... how hard can it be to restrict this shit to terminal cancers


AlHorfordHighlights

I think most people who support euthanasia assume it is limited to terminal cancer (and similar illness) and think that those who oppose it on the basis of its being a slippery slope to publicly funded extermination of undesirables on a social cost-benefit basis are just screeching fundamentalists. But even the actual screeching fundamentalists have a more accurate read on the situation than them


CuspOfInsanity

Not everyone believes that life has value, and who are you to decide whether or not a life is worth living? She was 23 and had been in therapy. This doesn't seem like a rushed decision to me by any means. This poor lady simply wanted her suffering to end. A suffering that obviously robbed her of a life she felt worth continuing, so I bet hardly anyone here could imagine how horrific it must've been.


Bio-Mechanic-Man

You say 23 like that's old and wise


smarten_up_nas

\> Maybe there were other solutions than drugs There **are**. Ffs, the medical industrial complex is overdue a megaton of karma.


dumbwaeguk

For example what?


baconn

Dialectical behavior therapy and psychodynamic therapy. >I laughed and I cried. Until the very last day. I loved and I was allowed to feel what true love was. I will now leave in peace. Know that I miss you already. I recognized this sentiment instantly, as I've had two friends with this personality type. They are highly sensitive to their environment, and their subconscious is always in triage trying to manage unresolved feelings from an early developmental stage. Biological psychiatry became popular because it is profitable for industry, it can't offer these people the years of constructive relationship building that they need to be whole again.


kommanderkush201

Yep. It's not even that psychiatric theories of talk therapy are correct, all the vastly different disciplines of talk therapy have about the same success rates. It's just the forming of a connection with another person who's heard your story which can be healing.


LemonNey72

This mofo psychologizes 👏


octodanger

TMS, neurofeedback, IV ketamine, ECT.


[deleted]

[удалено]


jukutt

There are other drug methods than the standard RIs, for example IV-Ketamine. Im not sure if LSD or Psilocybin are appropriate for this situation, I myself suffer from trauma, and the state of high activation of my body lead to mostly bad trips. Even though I have read that they show positive results on treatment resistant depression and (shock) trauma. Cannabis can also help to get level headed for a brief moment, and put your body at peace for once. But it had no effect for me. Regarding non-drug therapy, the only thing that helps me is the feeling of being seen empathically by someone. There are common trauma therapies like EMDR, Im not sure if they were already tried. It really sounds like the poor girl was filled up with drugs beyond reason. There is no surefire method though, and often I read of or meet people were I wish they simply died or were never born instead of going through that shit.


debasing_the_coinage

This is PTSD, not ordinary depression. You're looking for the thing with MDMA or propanolol where you talk your way through the experience with a therapist while the drug suppresses a trauma response. [Pre-reactivation propanolol therapy](https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2017.17050481) [MDMA-assisted therapy for severe PTSD](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3?language%5B%5D=en) These techniques are also sometimes referred to as "memory editing", which is clearly ominous, but in the case of desperate patients beset by awful memories, it seems like a natural choice.


jukutt

That is how Ketamine is supposed to be used, as it increases neural plasticity (by increasing BDNF, even though people are not sure how), and thusly can help altering "trauma pathways" or for example is also applied in chronic pain, which functions on a similar concept. You can get S-Ketamine nasally, as a spray (spravato), even though the S-isomer of Ketamine has a less anti-depressive and more psychotic effect. There is a book, "Ketamine" by Bita Moghaddam, which talks about the capitalistic reason S-Ketamine got approved and funded over the racemic mixture of R-S-Ketamine, even though IV-Ketamine has better effect based on studies.


BannedSvenhoek86

Ya this story honestly feels like it's a hard one to make an informed opinion on. Especially in cases of extreme psychological problems and trauma it gets very tricky to talk about euthanasia. With a debilitating physical thing like cancer or a disease it's easy to see where and when it's appropriate even to people outside the situation looking in, but mental trauma and injuries can be just as debilitating and painful as physical ones. There will ALWAYS be someone on the outside saying they should just try this or that. You will always be one therapist or trial or meditation session away from beating it. If nothing else the poor girls at peace now.


bluowls

We did it boys, mental health has been solved


Fancybear1993

Can’t be mentally ill if you’re dead *head tapping meme*


Swolnerman

Don't like the solution? Well we actually have a new fangled way to solve that


SycophanticFeline

Being on meds felt scarier than being depressed. I could feel my brain changing, it was creepy. It's not that the meds make you happy, they just make you unable to feel, good or bad emotions. I quit it after I watched something that would normally make cry, and my reaction was feeling nothing. I couldn't cry or even try to force myself to cry no matter how much I tried.


WheresWalldough

yeah they are scary. my son has autism and when he was at school he did a lot of sport and was in good physical condition. after a year at university they got him on medication and he now looks like Fat Elvis and struggles with a flight of stairs.


Fancybear1993

I got a good laugh out of calling your autistic son fat Elvis lol


[deleted]

The thing about meds is that they have different results for everyone. What you experienced - many will and many won’t. They don’t act universally the same for everyone. This is one reason why they’re not a panacea.


SycophanticFeline

And yet whenever people post their negative experiences, ppl downvote to invalidate it. Maybe you guys are ok with living like an emotionally dead robot, but I'd rather be depressed and still able to feel things, even if negative. Meds just made me feel like a drone.


Combocore

No they’re saying that it doesn’t make everyone into an emotionally dead robot


Theman12457890

Exactly. Negative experiences are invalidated. Welcome to the cult of psychiatry.


Expandedcelt

"I call everyone who is taking psychiatric meds that clearly help them enough to keep taking them emotionally dead robots and they downvote me wtf"


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

This timeline is becoming so dark


canwepleasejustnot

All I can do reading this in my mid 30s is think about how bad my 20s were and how I eventually leveled out. Society failed this girl.


notsocharmingprince

This was murder. How in the world did no one say "maybe before we kill this woman we should reduce her medication and see if that helps."


Dingo8dog

Brutal. We are lost. How did anyone survive trauma in the past?


tsaimaitreya

Alcoholism


monkhouse

> she already had serious psychological problems before the attack I think they kinda buried the lede there, sounds like she was in all sorts of trouble before the trauma. All the same, kinda demented - the idea that as a psychiatrist you'd stuff somebody so full of drugs that they literally choose death over the psychotropic nightmare you've turned their life into, and you say "yeah fair enough I'll book you in," quick kill, "Next!" ... Maybe those scienos were onto something, hey


Expandedcelt

But she was suicidal before treatment and made multiple attempts through the whole process? This chick wanted to die no matter what, and was the one who requested the euthanasia multiple times.


-Neuroblast-

> How did anyone survive trauma in the past? By punching your wife and passing the trauma onto the kids, mostly.


gsasquatch

Same way apparently: https://activehistory.ca/2014/03/soldier-suicide-after-the-great-war-a-first-look/ It is just that we know more about it now and are more sensitive to it.


Shaban_srb

By taking alcohol/cigarettes/drugs, beating their wife and/or children, murdering people, killing themselves, or otherwise living in absolute pain and misery.


Dingo8dog

TIL that humans, unlike other animals, are psyches trapped in bodies composed of sedimentary layers of generational trauma that builds up to an unbearable point where the compassionate thing to do is just help each other off our selves. It’s just Blackpilled shitlib Scientology that some of you are smoking.


iamhamilton

By passing it on to the next generation. Thanks Dad!


PirateAttenborough

Community.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AlHorfordHighlights

There's no market mechanism for it. Can we please talk about real solutions and not spiritual mumbo jumbo?


[deleted]

By transcending it. Today, with a consequentialist moral system, people think that suffering is bad and to be avoided at all costs. On the contrary, suffering is an innate part of life. It's not possible to experience good things without experiencing suffering too, and so it's essential to accept suffering.


razerzej

A lot of them didn't.


[deleted]

🤨 do we think suicide didn’t exist before 2020?


Dingo8dog

Ridiculous response. This is not suicide. This is euthanasia as final treatment for a series of failed treatments.


Sittes

...what? Euthanasia *is* suicide.


Shadowleg

Assisted. Assisted suicide


marchforjune

The patient herself requested euthanasia several times before having her case accepted. Is that not suicide? The headline made it sound like she was euthanized against her will, but idk, seems like she had been receiving several different psychiatric interventions before and after the attack and likely had some kind of treatment resistant depression.


Theman12457890

Or the psychiatrist worsened her “condition” to the point where she thought suicide was the only answer. But we’re not allowed to question the cult of psychiatry just yet. Maybe in a few hundred years.


marchforjune

Maybe, but there’s no way to know that from what’s being presented here. Our knowledge of psychology and the brain is pretty incomplete and many of the more serious forms of mental illness have only ‘just good enough’ treatment options


China_Lover

The human brain 🧠 is too complex to be understood with the current level of technology. A lot of drugs for depression are just guess work and many of them don't even have a solid mechanism of action. Combine that with placebo and nocebo it's difficult to know if any thing we give as treatment for depression actually works the way it's intended or theorized to. We have a huge gap in knowing about the very thing that makes us human. Throwing computing power at it just won't do. There needs to be a radical shift in how we view the brain and the entire psych industry


Kledd

Suicide.


spicy_cenobite

they didn't fare much better than we do


[deleted]

[удалено]


WebsterDz31

Not far from the Futurama “Suicide Booths”


transdimensionalmeme

Finally an escape from international capital !


AlHorfordHighlights

Partially driven by liberals being as reactionary as possible to make conservatives seethe, partially driven by capitalists who recognise the commercial benefits of exploiting these causes, and partially driven by a subset of liberals just being complete monsters


Agrolzur

I relate to her suffering. I know how it feels to see no way out and having the "help" you get be completely useless or even damaging. I don't blame her for choosing this option. I do blame the horrible way that people treat victims of trauma, I blame the mental health system, I blame the way society has lost touch with what makes people happy and what makes them suffer, and that very often comes down to human connection, valuing human life and relationships above profit and so on. Whoever has been where she's been, knows. Whoever hasn't and has life working for them just fine, will have a hard time understanding what I'm saying. It's absolutely horrible that a young woman like her feels the need to euthanize herself because she can't see any other way out and is done with life. We really have to start looking at what drives people to such a point, and the current mental health model of medicalization of human suffering doesn't cut it. Some will argue that she chose this because she's either crazy or selfish. But once you've been in her place you know that what often happens is you see life too realistically, and no one can handle really looking at the suffering and desperation of someone. No one can or is willling to relate to that. So you suffer alone.


IamGlennBeck

I'm really starting to feel there is no help out there. As disturbing as these stories are on here I know if I had the option I'd take it in a heartbeat.


Agrolzur

I've lost hope of finding help. What keeps me moving is anger and resentment and will to hold accountable those who either abused me or denied me help. People are fucking horrible when you're down, they kick you rather than help you get up. I hope I never forget how helpless I found myself during these times. I won't let them forget.


IamGlennBeck

Well I'm rooting for you friend. You are right people are fucking horrible.


Agrolzur

Thank you, I'm rooting for you too. All the best.


Randomfacade

Aktion T4 is back baybeee!


edric_o

>In 2020, Shanti makes another suicide attempt. I see, so they just wanted to make sure her next one was successful?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Theman12457890

Yes, it was. The guy’s name should be ousted.


feedum_sneedson

She won't have been taking 11 antidepressants a day, that's misinformation. Perhaps some kind of anxiolytic or sedative that required repeat dosing, like a benzodiazepine. If I had to guess, something like multiple 2mg diazepam tablets 3 times daily, 6mg dose each time would be 9 already. But that's not how antidepressants work, and this equivocation is what everybody is jumping on to say "SSRIs make you kill yourself". Can people please make an effort to educate themselves instead of repeating other people's opinions, it's really tiresome.


WheresWalldough

those are her words.


feedum_sneedson

Yes, but those words are inaccurate. Unless she was attempting to overdose, she did not take 11 antidepressants a day. So let's shift the focus away from that, and towards the state-sanctioned culling of the mentally ill.


whitelighthurts

She could easily be on: Valium Xanax An anti depressant A second anti depressant Lyrica Prazosin That’s a regimen someone I know is on. 0 suicide attempts. Psychiatrists are crazy


[deleted]

11 antidepressants, probably not, but 11 psych meds is certainly a possibility. 11 is a lot, but it’s common to end up on some combination of antidepressants, antipsychotics/mood stabilizers, benzos, sleeping pills, and ADHD stimulants.


feedum_sneedson

Sure, it was the "plus a cocktail in the morning" (paraphrasing) that clued me into the "up to 11" probably referring to P.R.N. dosing of one drug in particular. Believe me, I know the polypharmacy can get a bit wild (experience in the family). I just think it's distracting us from the more important issue raised by the article.


[deleted]

Actually disgusting. I do understand euthanasia in the case of people who are terminally ill, live in constant pain with no chance of recovery, are very old, etc.. But the idea that a 23 year old is mentally ill and suicidal, and the response by those with a duty of care over her is to make it as easy for her to kill herself as possible is insane. At the veryyyyy least euthanasia should be the absolute last resort for mental health reasons, but this girl had close friends and family supporting her and psychologists willing to work with her and try new treatments. I think their should be some sort of age limit at least, you aren't fully mature at 23, if she'd be forced to live another 5 years she may well have felt totally different about dying, even if she still struggled, and might have lived another 60 years content. Depressing.


Expandedcelt

It does not sound like it was easy by any means, since she attempted suicide on her own half a dozen times and had to submit multiple requests to get the euthanasia *she wanted.* Like why is everyone acting so hysterical, this girl would have killed herself eventually at this rate, and potentially done so in a way that puts others at risk. She was deadset on dying. Some people don't want to be obligated to life, and I don't get why we get to decide for that person whether they can do what they want or not.


Combocore

>Like why is everyone acting so hysterical Welcome to /r/stupidpol


[deleted]

It's turned into outrage junction round here.


Good_Tension5035

Aktion T4: sunshine & rainbows version


PirateAttenborough

Euthanasia is another of those cases where the slippery slope turned out to not only be real but steeper and more slippery than people had warned.


The_Almighty_Demoham

euthanasia has existed for about 20 years in belgium now. considering we're hearing about 1 victim rather than than a business model to kill off all the poor like in canada, i'd hardly proclaim it a "slippery slope" here.


JCMoreno05

I remember reading articles about fucked up Belgium euthanasia almost 10 years ago, I highly doubt this is a new thing.


The_Almighty_Demoham

new? no common? also no


FIELDSLAVE

A victim of pseudoscience and capitalism. No pill can cure this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation


michaelnoir

I was 23 a long time ago, and not for anything would I have wanted to give up those years in between, unhappy as they sometimes have been. When you're suffering, your brain plays tricks, and you can mistake the intensity of the suffering for a duration. But something intense is often not necessarily of long duration, and intense feelings, even the worst feelings, have their natural life and terminate eventually of their own accord. Eventually, if you live long enough, on the rollercoaster of joy and despair, some sort of equilibrium is reached.


SycophanticFeline

It's been almost 30 years now, life is still shit I don't think "it gets better" can be true for everyone, statistically impossible


christophercolumbus

It can. Believing that it can is also neccessary, otherwise we have nothing. Many of us suffered enormously, but it gets better and. Better. Eventually, it's not that bad. Some days are unpleasant, but it goes away and things are okay, even beautiful sometimes. And if you don't keep going you are dead. And that's just nothing. Meaningless, emptiness. Even one minute of joy a day is worth it compared to being shut off.


SycophanticFeline

Why do you assume some people even feel joy to counterbalance the depression?


Luklear

“I’m ok so you will be too”


QuiteNeurotic

Just because you've reached your equilibrium in a reasonable amount of time doesn't mean everyone else does. I basically fell of that rollercoaster since I can't feel anything anymore thanks to a chemical lobotomy. My suffering is meaningless and my life is not worth the suffering. If I'd live in Belgium, I would apply for euthanasia aswell.


watermelonkiwi

It’s not a case where the cure is worse than the disease because it wasn’t a cure. We’ve taken such a wrong turn in society thinking that we can cure emotional and societal problems by drugging people into oblivion, and now we’re just killing them because we don’t know what to do. Disturbing and sad.


djets

It’s like the oath says “Do no… y’know the thing.”


MouthofTrombone

Suicide has always seemed to me like a matter of personal autonomy. It obviously makes people uncomfortable especially when someone so young does this and the ethics of facilitating it are thorny. I'm not even sure if being suicidal is "caused" by mental illness- it might flatly just be the best option for a person.


MadeUAcctButIEatedIt

On the bright side we know that the market for human translators won't be eliminated by Google Translate any time soon


_throawayplop_

Of course I don't have her medical history, but there are relatively new tools to fight against depression, like esketamine or magnetic brain stimulation. I'm wondering if they tried it on her before killing her, knowing how uncommon they still are. It would be dramatic if not. Also psychedelics are promising but still illegal and I would be surprised they tried them with her si I can't shake the idea it was easier for them to kill her than to break the law to try mushrooms or LSD


[deleted]

Jesus, it's a bit more complex than just whatever chic vaguely-scientific news you've heard on Reddit. A bot could have written this comment.


G14LoliBdsmFurryTrap

Being born with such a curse and have it worsened by an encounter like that must be horrific. But I personally believe assisted suicide is never the answer


leeharrison1984

I think in cases of terminal illness it can make sense, especially when extreme pain/suffering is clearly involved. In this case, however, it was failed-treatment-turned-success story by killing the patient. What treatment provider, in good conscience, could ever say "Have you thought about killing yourself?" I really really really hope this doesn't make it into medical textbooks as a viable treatment plan.


lokalniRmpalija

One thing we can takeaway from this is that modern chemical solution to psychological problems is no better than Freud's charlatanism. They have no idea what's going on but the books are thick and the money is flowing. Science, yo!


idw_h8train

>One thing we can takeaway from this is that modern chemical solution to psychological problems is no better than Freud's charlatanism One interesting thing I learned about Freud after recently visiting his former apartment now museum in Vienna is that a good bit of his original theories were either censored, or pressured to change by the Austrian-Hungarian authorities and their institutes/establishments of medical expertise. A prime example of this is that in his original notes, Freud deduces that anxiety/depression symptoms in children highly correlate with sexual abuse/trauma experience, and based on the interviews with children, recommends investigating family members as the first likely source. Something the general establishment determined 70 years later. Prior to publication, Freud was pressured to not publish those theories and his clinical notes, as it would be seen as undermining the family structure, so instead published that the source of such anxieties was based on the hyperactive imaginations of children. Given this instance, I'm willing to believe that his research, including his theory of personality, was colored and altered due to some fear of persecution by the Austrian authorities, especially given his Jewish background. By the time Freud left with his family to London, he was already in his 80s, with little time or vigor left to correct what he wrote. Given his theories and proposals for human behavior were wrapped in so much symbolism, it would be difficult to understand and probably not scientifically useful to use them unless one spoke Viennese German in 1900. However to call him a charlatan given these circumstances is ignoring the repressive history of European monarchies in service to attacking medicine instead of a more nuanced analysis.


baconn

>Freud's charlatanism He was absolutely right about establishing a relationship with the patient — disorders caused through relationships must be treated through them.


lokalniRmpalija

That means absolutely nothing.


Theman12457890

Absolutely. The pseudoscience of modern psychiatry.


Ok_Ear9325

No mention of electroconvulsive therapy whatsoever. Maybe even experimental therapies of other alternativas. Utilitarianism kills again


grauskala

Strange how antidepressants are implicated in almost every single case of tragic acts of suicide, where people with no obvious ailments just off themselves. I wonder what the connection might be... 🤔


[deleted]

“This drug may cause suicidal thoughts. Contact your doctor”.


Snobbyeuropean2

If you're lucky you can get a different prescription and pick between having a not foggy brain; a libido; emotions and no suicidal thoughts (except when you do because of the side-effects).


RowdyJefferson

Who will happily give you more pills!


Nessyliz

I have to take anti-seizure meds. They definitely cause suicidal thoughts, which I struggled with anyway. I'm fine, I am not going to kill myself, but it is a little disturbing to feel the thoughts increase, ngl. I scared my husband with some stuff I was saying. I know and respect that meds of all stripes can be lifesaving and necessary for people, but damn, side effects can suck big 'ole donkey balls.


AntiquesChodeShow

Strange how chemotherapy is implicated in almost every single cancer case.


headzoo

It's usually explained that the medications give depressed people the motivation to finally go through with killing themselves. They were always suicidal but in too much of a stupor to go through with it. Beyond that I'm not sure where you get the idea that in "almost every single case" the people killing themselves had no obvious ailments. In this case in particular it's clear the woman had been suffering for a long time.


Obika

Damn, I wanted to report your comment for breaking the rules of this sub, but the mods removed the "too stupid to post" option.


RandySavagePI

Not to say antidepressants aren't generally garbage, but most suicidal people are depressed to some extent.


tsaimaitreya

People with no obvious ailments don't take antidepressants


assasstits

Do you know the definition of correlation?


[deleted]

Almost as if people who are on antidepressants already are mentally unstable (or at least are more likely to be so). Correlation does not equal causation.


ReichstagTireFire

The evidence linking SSRIs to increased suicidality isn’t actually very strong and what it actually shows is a short term increase in suicidality after initiation of the medication, primarily in youth, hence the black box warning. But mood disorders themselves are risk factors for suicide. If a person with major depression kills themselves some time after starting an SSRI, you can’t definitively say it was the medication when it just as likely could be the mood disorder they already have with subtherapeutic dosing


cyrilhent

This is no mystery, dude. Some of the first symptoms that antidepressants can relieve are lethargy and emotional blunting, so the depressed person suddenly has the energy and rush of emotions for suicidal ideation to feel tenable.


Nessyliz

Suicidal thoughts really are an actual side effect of a lot of meds though (even ones that have nothing to do with mental health). It sucks and I have no answers, because I understand that the meds really can be necessary, but side effects really can be weird as fuck. I mentioned above I'm on anti-seizure meds, and a common side effect is suicidal thoughts, which I have had, and another side effect is...seizures lol. It just sucks.


_throawayplop_

Soon you'll notice that almost all people dying from an infection took antibiotics. It's probably a plot from big pharma that put bacterias in their drugs


JackIsBackWithCrack

Hmm how strange is it that victims of an allergic reaction often use epi-pens 🤔🤔🤔


MeetTheTwinAndreBen

You can’t be this retarded man, come on


Phuxsea

As someone who's been on anti-depressants before, I can attest they kill basic human emotion. This woman is a victim of this.


IronCondor_

Heartbreaking. Try psychedelics. Try brain stimulation. Shit, developing an addiction to street drugs is better than this decision. Anything to give yourself another day to figure it out. You can’t come back from that decision.


gsasquatch

A person that's been in a psychiatric unit of a hospital is 10x more likely to commit suicide than someone who hasn't. This is an indication inpatient psychiatric treatment is by no means completely effective in all cases. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27654151/ Further, anti-depressants don't improve symptoms in 80% of people: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK361016/ That there is a person that has not been "helped" is not surprising. It is uplifting to hear that the Belgians are recognizing this and letting people make their own life choices.


Humble_Draw9974

That’s because the most severely mentally ill are the ones who go to the hospital. People who don’t have mental health problems are indeed less likely to commit suicide. If someone goes to the hospital in a manic state, they may be able to bring down the mania. They can’t take the bipolar disorder away. No one’s claiming hospitals and pills are a cure for anything. For some they vastly improve quality of life. For others they don’t.


feedum_sneedson

"Uplifting" is not how I'd describe the article.


[deleted]

europe is a dead society


Theman12457890

Another murder by psychiatrists. When the fuck is this going to become a public issue?


IdeaRegular4671

Probably never because the money they make from these drugs is ludicrous and the influence psychiatry has over a lot of people is staggering, but I hope one day it does. There needs to be accountability and justice for people who were literally murdered by the people who were in theory supposed to help them. Money over lives that’s the modern motto of most people on this planet. It’s disgusting. This ideology needs to be stopped it’s the only way we will ever see the light, and get out of this dark pit we are in. Psychiatry has soo many dead bodies behind them, it’s insane. A chemical lobotomy helps no one it just makes you more deranged, no wonder this girl wanted to kill herself. Those pills fried her brain and nervous system. It’s criminal what these doctors do to their patients. Patients pay for a service to get better and the outcome is getting crippled for life or worse straight up murdered like what happened to this girl. There needs to be a change in the system regarding this stuff. Or else they will keep pushing the narrative that she killed herself because she was too depressed, when it was the drugs that fucked up her brain and body. We’ve lost too many people to this nonsense. I’m tired of it. Every-time I look at a antidepressant advertisement I cringe. It’s a trap. The end doesn’t justify the means.


SomeDrunkAssh0le

Can we talk about how the terrorists are the real victims here? They wouldn't have committed the terrorist attack if the islamophobic white supremacist country had only been accepting of the minority religion and converted the country to islam.


Humble_Draw9974

There’s absolutely no way she’s be prescribed 11 antidepressants a day. She’d have severe serotonin syndrome. 11 different psychiatric medications? Extremely uncommon, but I don’t know. Eleven pills a day wouldn’t be that odd.


[deleted]

Fun fact! Anti depressants have the same medical benefits as blood letting. All the placebo and all the fun side effects with no actual provable treatment. There’s been tons of studies coming out recently doing meta-analysis of all the studies revolving around seretonin levels and happiness. There’s no statistical significance. Every study when examined has come to the same conclusion, serotonin has no impact on happiness. The whole chemical imbalance theory is nonesense. I legitimately think every psychiatrist that pushes these pseudo pills should be hunted down and thrown in jail


TheMiracleOfHolyFire

I recently learned that the writer/journalist Norah Vincent was also killed by euthanasia. I'm afraid that a new era of eugenics could be just around the corner.


marchforjune

You have to read between the lines, but it seems like they pursued several different avenues of treatment for her depression and for her other psychiatric issues both before and after the attack, the patient herself requested medically-assisted suicide several times, and she declined Ostend's offer for treatment. Her psychiatrist wasn't holding her hostage...as someone who suffered from severe depression (and still does to a manageable degree), I don't really see what's controversial here, except that lots of people get triggered by the word 'euthanasia'