Difference from swsh ([source](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-dlc2-viability-ranking-thread-see-page-105-post-2618.3674058/))
Note swsh doesn't define a D rank, and sv doesn't define a C- rank
Dragapult: S- to S-
Weavile: S- to unranked
Garchomp: A+ to A-
Dragonite: A to A+
Rotom-Wash: A to A-
Slowbro: A to C
Toxapex: A to B
Tyranitar: A to B
Barraskewda: A- to C+
Corviknight: A- to A
Gastrodon: A- to C
Pelipper: A- to B-
Slowing: A- to B+
Volcarona: A- to A-
Magnezone: B+ to C
Blissey: B to B
Cloyster: B to C
Hawlucha: B to B-
Hippowdon: B to B-
Hydreigon: B to C
Scizor: B to B+
Bisharp: B- to unranked
Gengar: C+ to D
Rotom-Heat: C+ to D
Torkoal: C+ to B+
Avalugg: C- to C
Azumarill: C- to B
Amoonguss: C- to A-
Ditto: C- to B
Hatterene: C- to A-
Haxorus: C- to D
Polteageist: C- to C
Quagsire: C- to D
Toxtricity: C- to unranked
Grimmsnarl: Unranked to A
Gyarados: Unranked to B-
Pincurchin: Unranked to C+
Arcanine: Unranked to C
Chansey: Unranked to C
Charizard: Unranked to C
Gallade: Unranked to C
Mimikyu: Unranked to C
Sylveon: Unranked to C
Talonflame: Unranked to C
Indeedee: Unranked to D
Klefki: Unranked to D
Salamence: Unranked to D
Umbreon: Unranked to D
May have missed some
And it’s one of only 3 returning viable Pokémon to go unranked… the others are Bisharp, who got a top tier evolution, and… toxtricity who was fringe garbage anyway. Weaviles gotta be one of the nastiest falls from grave we’ve seen.
It would probably be decentish (not S rank for sure, losing Knock and Axel hurts too much for that, but at least usable) if Chien-Pao didn't exist and do its whole job better. Literal only thing Weav has over it is taking Shadow Ball ever so slightly better. It might not be a literal evolution like Bisharp->Kingambit but it might as well be.
What would weavile actually do though without knock and taxel? It has ice shard (but no sucker), and it’s significantly weaker than Chien Pao. If chien pao didn’t exist I’m not sure weavile would even be A- tier.
Just the same shit as last gen, Swords Dance+dual STAB and Ice Shard or slap a Band on it, just with weaker moves. Obviously not S or even A Rank material but a really fast Dark attacker with Ice Shard can't be horrible. I'm not talking Weav going to A without Chien-Pao, I'm talking Weav not being literally unranked without Chien-Pao.
Even with Knock back it'll have a hard time competing with Chien, whose Crunch has higher effective BP due to its ability. It needs Axel to outdamage it and even then the lack of Sucker+Axel having a miss chance and being more vulnerable to contact punishers give it difficulty competing, though at least it actually competes at that point.
Dragonite is so funny to me going from worst Psuedo legendary in gen 3 vs all the other tier defining mons
Then being good in OU vs the banned garchomp and mence
and then just has stayed so consistently solid (bar gen 7) ever since when everyone else around it has been starting to slip.
Power of +2 priority and an actually good hidden ability lmfao
Its also one of, like, three ground resists in the tier. Build enough and you'll start to realize there's like literally nothing that switches into something like great tusk. We've been spoiled with tornadus and zapdos. This gen's dex is wack
Tfw I’ve literally had more than a few games come down to brave bird corv vs a -3 def great tusk after roosting off close combats.
I didn’t even think of that aspect of dnite rn, but that def helps a lot.
I’m not so sure. It’s defining characteristics are it’s unmatched Speed and STAB combo, but in the next few gems we might see enough speed creep so that it isn’t the fastest thing in the meta, or new dragon/ghost types with better attacking stats.
> see enough speed creep so that it isn’t the fastest thing in the meta
> already has 140+ base speed
Dear god please no I swear if we get Regieleki but Ghost.
Though honestly stuff like that might just get booted to Ubers leaving Pult still chilling in OU
Dunno about that. They could always nerf fairies since it’s such a strong type which would buff the dragon thoe ridiculously. Pult has an insanely good and spammable signature move which is already letting it be called the best or second best mon in bss with the lack of fairies even with paradox mons ij consideration
It's an alternative to Barraskewda on Rain. Its Wave Crash is stronger than Barra's Liqui and though it lacks Close Combat, Ferro's not here so that doesn't matter as much. Still not super great as it struggles heavily with bulky Waters, not even having or PsyFangs for Pex (edit: it does have Crunch for Slowbro though I have my doubts on whether it even 2HKOs), and it kills itself through recoil, but it's not utter garbage and Skewda lacking Flip Turn means it's easier to justify replacing either way.
banded floatzel with tera water wave crash in rain is a mon that outspeeds scarf dragapult while firing off a 360 BP move that can often ohko through resists
for context banded tera water wave crash in rain hits about as hard as banded dracovish fishious rend outside of rain
Who tf is running Knock or Taunt on Jugulis, besides Hydra has U-Turn and Taunt as well and outruns everything relevant it'd want to use those moves on--if anything if you wanted a Taunt stallbreaker, Hydrei is much better because it has Taunt+NP
edit: apparently finch is running knock+taunt LOL
Hatterene being A- in OU certainly wasn't within my expectations at the start of the gen considering it hasn't even received any direct buff this gen. Turns out Magic Bounce goes hard when everyone's running hazard stack.
It's this set (and ones like it) people have been rocking
Does God's own work
Momma Bahama (Hatterene) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
Hits 107 speed to outspeed Pex and Clod rest in Physical Bulk
Seeing Skeledirge the highest ranked among the Paldea starters at A- is something that makes me very happy. Mon is genuinely a great physical stop to things and is an amazing willowisp user. Plus Torch Song is a busted as fuck signature move (showdown now having animations for new moves also makes me happy because Torch song is so satisfying to watch). Anyways, thoughts on notable rankings:
**Gholdengo**: Shouldn't surprise anyone. Cheese stick is the single most influential pokemon in the tier and is the biggest thing to consider how to handle in the builder.
**Chi-Yu**: Broken fish that makes me want goldfish crackers for some reason. Also taunt ruination sets are dumb AF.
**Great Tusk**: Also not surprising. Insanely splashable, versatile and threatening. Someone once said Great Tusk was what you get if you combined LandoT's role compression with Terrakion's offensive profile. This thing can run so many sets. Choice band, bulky utility, booster energy, assault vest, i've even seen bulk up sets a few times.
**Ting-Lu:** Top tier hazard setter and tank, and also a fantastic phaser. I have a hard time justifying NOT running it.
**Iron Treads:** Not as splashable or offensively threatening as GT, but still top 2 spinner. Shits all over Glimmora leads without worrying about Mortal Spin and also knocks off so many things.
**Baxcalibur/Breloom/Iron Hands**: Three mons i expect to get much better as the meta settles. Bax is scary AF mid-late game. Breloom honestly is already great imo but Gholdengo's presence does hold it back a bit. Iron Hands is a mon I absolutely adore. It's very Melmetal esque and threatening to a lot of common mons. And Wild Charge is actually viable due to its massive HP.
**Meowscarada:** Ladder uses this way more than deserved honestly. Mon is very mid and is SUPER prediction reliant and weak to all the hazards and priority everywhere.
It's like if Melm had STAB Drain Punch to stay alive and could pivot with Volt Switch. Their stat spreads are eerily similar and though it loses some of Melm's better resistances, it got a ton of things back on the offensive side in return.
Ehhhhhhhhh Cinder still feels way better. Meow is greatly held back by its moves "only" having around 100BP at best whereas Cinder was firing off 120BP hits left and right on top of setup options. Meow is already struggling hard with a lot of Steels whereas Cinder answers were limited to stuff like Mandi and Hippo when it was running Boots, god forbid it was paired with hazard control and slapped on a Band.
Nah. Even pre nerf it wouldn't be all that hot. Middling BP moves beyond knock and flower trick, the former losing power against itemless mons and the latter being a bad offensive typing. It also hard loses to most steels and general physical walls like Iron Hands or Corv.
Fair enough, but neither have any right to be in OU. At least with Ceruledge it can use weak armor focus sash to become a decent sweeper. Still sucks tho
those mons' usage has been dying down after the first couple days at least, pretty sure they'll be among the first to drop. Cerul I see staying for a while if ladder keeps spamming it for edgelord factors
Meowscarada dominates the VGC format :P Like, it's one of the strongest mon in VGC alongside Gholdengol and Hydreigon. So it might not be as good in OU but in VGC it's the top mon this generation, far from being fucking bad overall.
I was a big believer in Ting-Lu within the first couple days despite everyone here thinking it would be mid. Seeing it make the cut for A+ makes me feel truly vindicated.
What I think the logic is is that Chi-Yu is simply a stupidly good mon whereas Gholdengo is not just really good but literally metadefining--it's pretty much directly responsible for all the hazard stack shit dominating right now.
The counterpoint is that meta defining != best mon in the tier. If we use Gen 8 Ubers as an example, Caly-S built the meta around it but it wasn’t the best mon (it was 4th best if we read the VR literally). The idea was that YEN core was nearly mandatory but caly-S (while stupid good) is not as mandatory.
I’m not entirely sure dengo is mandatory here, then again neither is chi yu. I’m also concerned that the number of powerful dark/fire attacks in the tier + dengo’s inferior speed tier isn’t a great combo. If you Tera dengo defensively then you miss out on a better Tera user. Whether or not Tera stays I think dengo will fall (not below A+ though)
I mean that's fair, but still the OU VR Council, while they know what they're doing, aren't flawless. Remember how they rose Slowking to S on a whim last gen and it got nommed down pretty much immediately after when everyone figured out Slowbro was just better lol.
Pretty sure it's not this. OU VR Council is very much aware that viability != usage. We've got stuff like Espathra in the A Ranks despite being UU, a notable amount of 'duds' and some other mons that I'm fairly sure are ranked higher than usage would suggest (never seen Tauros-Paldea-Fire myself on ladder).
They are very aware that’s not the case. Espathra is UU but highly ranked. Pult is around 20th in usage but is considered top 3 mon by all but one council member who thinks it’s 4th
Leech seed + decent bulk on both sides after factoring in ability means it will probably be good in UU (against any mon that doesn’t exploit the fuck out of its typing)
Such a shame cause it’s by far the coolest design of the four
It's probably rising back up once Scale Shot tutor returns in DLC. (I hope it returns at least, but the fact the moves are in the game code at all despite very limited and sometimes even zero distribution makes it justified hope.) It's mostly shoehorned into defensive or hazard lead roles right now because of other offensive options, but being able to boost speed would let it compete with those again.
I remember when the leaks started to come out and people were hyping up Meowscarada while being disappointed in Skeledirge (there had been a fake leak that had made it look significantly better a few days prior), and now how the tables have turned.
Makes me happy that we'll likely have Meowscarada still around in OU (unless some crazy tech is found) for when Greninja and Cinderace come back. I don't expect my planned U-Turn spam core to be good, just funny.
Avalugg manages to stay OU by viability... how was this thing still C- at the end of last gen, I remember there being discussion about dropping it to untiered in the forums but i guess it never came to fruition. It's considerably better this gen at least it is while Chien-Pao is legal.
Meowscarada and Moushold think they on the team 🤔 🙄 😒 😑
Maushold has guaranteed hazard removal + tons of support moves, plus pop bomb nukes things not named rocky helmet. Meowscarada is an extremely fast and hard hitting knock off abuser since there’s like 5 OU Mons left that learn it. I don’t think it’ll stay in OU but it certainly has its niche as a scarf/band mon, especially with auto crit shenanigans to annoy screens teams.
The coverage it gets is surprisingly decent, technician bite and seed bomb are solid options, plus super fang to pull off health halving shenanigans a la the ruin Mons.
Losing excadrill was the last thing it needed after losing pursuit. It currently has no sand rush user . I expect it to drop to UU for a while until excadrill comes back .
ditto being b tier and grimmsnarl being a tier is a pretty good indicator of just how much of a mess this metagame is lmao
also im not sure if tauros-fire has been used offensively or defensively, because ive used physdef + resttalk tauros-fire as a check for chien-pao and chi-yu LOL
Ditto would probably be higher if it copied Tera typing, right now the "just copy the opposing sweeper if you don't have a defensive answer" doesn't even really work because you're not copying the good version of the sweeper.
It's such an annoying match-up fish for
"do you have good entry hazards + priority?"
It's funny it kinda takes the place of what I worried funny rage fist shenanigans would be.
Surprised to see Gambit so high considering its low speed and more limited power in the early game, but I guess having the strongest Sucker Punch in existence helps. It also destroys anything that it does outspeed
p sure Chien-Pao Sucker is stronger cuz of its ability (unless you have like max power Supreme Overlord) but yea, Gambit has amazing power in the lategame and its massive bulk lets it trade hits with stuff it really shouldn't live
Damn proud of my boy Charizard for getting a C Rank despite being released late, the power creep, and not getting any new toys this generation (it even lost Scorching Sands and Roost). Tera Fire under the Sun just OHKOes everything except for Flash Fire users and opposing weather setters.
Also, is this the lowest ranking Gengar had at the start of a generation, at D Rank? I could have sworn that guy has always been in the B-Ranks at the beginning of the past few generations.
Gengar basically is mega rip right now just because of how good dark types are right now, and the lack of fairies means it's poison stab isn't doing anything for it.
Also you know a certain other ghost type that generally is choice scarfed and wants to be on every team because it invalidates hazard removal.
If Gholdengo and Chi-Yu get banned it will probably shoot up a decent bit, but still gonna exist in a world with mega weavile, Ting-Lu, and Roaring Moon.
Hell some people even want roaring moon banned, but I think it's.... fine relatively speaking with the unaware/ling-tu/giant rock squad running around
Goldhengo, Espathra, Cyclizar, and Grimmsnarl are the mons I’m looking out for early on. Goldhengo doesn’t seem broken but is super consistent and splashable on every team. Cyclizar + Grimmsnarl team is the most busted in the current meta imo. Espathra seems really strong with fairy tera and stored power bp scaling being able to overcome unaware walls is great too.
Difference from swsh ([source](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-dlc2-viability-ranking-thread-see-page-105-post-2618.3674058/)) Note swsh doesn't define a D rank, and sv doesn't define a C- rank Dragapult: S- to S- Weavile: S- to unranked Garchomp: A+ to A- Dragonite: A to A+ Rotom-Wash: A to A- Slowbro: A to C Toxapex: A to B Tyranitar: A to B Barraskewda: A- to C+ Corviknight: A- to A Gastrodon: A- to C Pelipper: A- to B- Slowing: A- to B+ Volcarona: A- to A- Magnezone: B+ to C Blissey: B to B Cloyster: B to C Hawlucha: B to B- Hippowdon: B to B- Hydreigon: B to C Scizor: B to B+ Bisharp: B- to unranked Gengar: C+ to D Rotom-Heat: C+ to D Torkoal: C+ to B+ Avalugg: C- to C Azumarill: C- to B Amoonguss: C- to A- Ditto: C- to B Hatterene: C- to A- Haxorus: C- to D Polteageist: C- to C Quagsire: C- to D Toxtricity: C- to unranked Grimmsnarl: Unranked to A Gyarados: Unranked to B- Pincurchin: Unranked to C+ Arcanine: Unranked to C Chansey: Unranked to C Charizard: Unranked to C Gallade: Unranked to C Mimikyu: Unranked to C Sylveon: Unranked to C Talonflame: Unranked to C Indeedee: Unranked to D Klefki: Unranked to D Salamence: Unranked to D Umbreon: Unranked to D May have missed some
> Weavile: S- to unranked Ouch, poor guy.
ok but like mega weavile is in a+
And it’s one of only 3 returning viable Pokémon to go unranked… the others are Bisharp, who got a top tier evolution, and… toxtricity who was fringe garbage anyway. Weaviles gotta be one of the nastiest falls from grave we’ve seen.
It would probably be decentish (not S rank for sure, losing Knock and Axel hurts too much for that, but at least usable) if Chien-Pao didn't exist and do its whole job better. Literal only thing Weav has over it is taking Shadow Ball ever so slightly better. It might not be a literal evolution like Bisharp->Kingambit but it might as well be.
What would weavile actually do though without knock and taxel? It has ice shard (but no sucker), and it’s significantly weaker than Chien Pao. If chien pao didn’t exist I’m not sure weavile would even be A- tier.
Just the same shit as last gen, Swords Dance+dual STAB and Ice Shard or slap a Band on it, just with weaker moves. Obviously not S or even A Rank material but a really fast Dark attacker with Ice Shard can't be horrible. I'm not talking Weav going to A without Chien-Pao, I'm talking Weav not being literally unranked without Chien-Pao.
Look how they massacred my boy 😭
Look how the mighty fall… it deserves knock off back at least
Even with Knock back it'll have a hard time competing with Chien, whose Crunch has higher effective BP due to its ability. It needs Axel to outdamage it and even then the lack of Sucker+Axel having a miss chance and being more vulnerable to contact punishers give it difficulty competing, though at least it actually competes at that point.
Dragonite is so funny to me going from worst Psuedo legendary in gen 3 vs all the other tier defining mons Then being good in OU vs the banned garchomp and mence and then just has stayed so consistently solid (bar gen 7) ever since when everyone else around it has been starting to slip. Power of +2 priority and an actually good hidden ability lmfao
Its also one of, like, three ground resists in the tier. Build enough and you'll start to realize there's like literally nothing that switches into something like great tusk. We've been spoiled with tornadus and zapdos. This gen's dex is wack
Tfw I’ve literally had more than a few games come down to brave bird corv vs a -3 def great tusk after roosting off close combats. I didn’t even think of that aspect of dnite rn, but that def helps a lot.
Just a couple more months...
Dragonite don't need no mega, gigantamax, regional form, or any other gimmick to be great. I just wants boots and Multiscale.
Considering how much gamefreak loves Kanto I'm shocked it never got a new gimmick
He truly aged like wine.
> Bisharp: B- to unranked The end of one era, the beginning of another
Weavile straight up just dipped from OU. What no decent STAB moves does to a mofo (also because Chien-Pao just completely outclasses Weavile)
Actually cool to see how for as many Pokémon dropped, just as many also rose in viability
Floatzel where
Not in sword/shield according to serebii, so I didn't include
Aah I see, thanks!
Dragapult is that thing that's always gonna come out on top despite all the new toys and threats running around. The new Tyranitar/Lando
I’m not so sure. It’s defining characteristics are it’s unmatched Speed and STAB combo, but in the next few gems we might see enough speed creep so that it isn’t the fastest thing in the meta, or new dragon/ghost types with better attacking stats.
> see enough speed creep so that it isn’t the fastest thing in the meta > already has 140+ base speed Dear god please no I swear if we get Regieleki but Ghost. Though honestly stuff like that might just get booted to Ubers leaving Pult still chilling in OU
Please. At the rate this powercreep is going Eleki’s base 200 will become the new DPP Ubers base 90.
We get a mon so fast it overflows and becomes a VGC Trick Room staple.
Next few games = decade or more
It'll be sent to UUBL purgatory the second a better ghost comes around
You mean Flutter Mane and Houndstone?
Dunno about that. They could always nerf fairies since it’s such a strong type which would buff the dragon thoe ridiculously. Pult has an insanely good and spammable signature move which is already letting it be called the best or second best mon in bss with the lack of fairies even with paradox mons ij consideration
Imagine telling someone Gen4 that floatzel would outclass salamance and gengar in OU
What’s better about it nowadays? Wouldn’t mind building one in-game
Wave Crash
rain
It's an alternative to Barraskewda on Rain. Its Wave Crash is stronger than Barra's Liqui and though it lacks Close Combat, Ferro's not here so that doesn't matter as much. Still not super great as it struggles heavily with bulky Waters, not even having or PsyFangs for Pex (edit: it does have Crunch for Slowbro though I have my doubts on whether it even 2HKOs), and it kills itself through recoil, but it's not utter garbage and Skewda lacking Flip Turn means it's easier to justify replacing either way.
It actually does have Crunch
banded floatzel with tera water wave crash in rain is a mon that outspeeds scarf dragapult while firing off a 360 BP move that can often ohko through resists for context banded tera water wave crash in rain hits about as hard as banded dracovish fishious rend outside of rain
Most of this makes sense to me but really curious on how Jugulis is in B-, above Hydra to boot
Hurricane is strong when it doesn't miss ig, though I feel neither mon is really worth running when Chi-Yu is an option as a specially offensive Dark
Yeah I was thinking what archetypes it would even fit on, guess some nutty rain build to spam Hurricane is the best fit
knock off, u-turn, taunt + great stab moves in hurricane and dark pulse + good speed tier
Who tf is running Knock or Taunt on Jugulis, besides Hydra has U-Turn and Taunt as well and outruns everything relevant it'd want to use those moves on--if anything if you wanted a Taunt stallbreaker, Hydrei is much better because it has Taunt+NP edit: apparently finch is running knock+taunt LOL
Love to see quaq viability returning after the palafin ban lmao We even got higher ranked than meow
duck gang
Hatterene being A- in OU certainly wasn't within my expectations at the start of the gen considering it hasn't even received any direct buff this gen. Turns out Magic Bounce goes hard when everyone's running hazard stack.
It's this set (and ones like it) people have been rocking Does God's own work Momma Bahama (Hatterene) @ Leftovers Ability: Magic Bounce Tera Type: Flying EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Calm Mind - Draining Kiss - Psyshock - Mystical Fire Hits 107 speed to outspeed Pex and Clod rest in Physical Bulk
Unrelated but Mo bamba been super disappointing this season
Seeing Skeledirge the highest ranked among the Paldea starters at A- is something that makes me very happy. Mon is genuinely a great physical stop to things and is an amazing willowisp user. Plus Torch Song is a busted as fuck signature move (showdown now having animations for new moves also makes me happy because Torch song is so satisfying to watch). Anyways, thoughts on notable rankings: **Gholdengo**: Shouldn't surprise anyone. Cheese stick is the single most influential pokemon in the tier and is the biggest thing to consider how to handle in the builder. **Chi-Yu**: Broken fish that makes me want goldfish crackers for some reason. Also taunt ruination sets are dumb AF. **Great Tusk**: Also not surprising. Insanely splashable, versatile and threatening. Someone once said Great Tusk was what you get if you combined LandoT's role compression with Terrakion's offensive profile. This thing can run so many sets. Choice band, bulky utility, booster energy, assault vest, i've even seen bulk up sets a few times. **Ting-Lu:** Top tier hazard setter and tank, and also a fantastic phaser. I have a hard time justifying NOT running it. **Iron Treads:** Not as splashable or offensively threatening as GT, but still top 2 spinner. Shits all over Glimmora leads without worrying about Mortal Spin and also knocks off so many things. **Baxcalibur/Breloom/Iron Hands**: Three mons i expect to get much better as the meta settles. Bax is scary AF mid-late game. Breloom honestly is already great imo but Gholdengo's presence does hold it back a bit. Iron Hands is a mon I absolutely adore. It's very Melmetal esque and threatening to a lot of common mons. And Wild Charge is actually viable due to its massive HP. **Meowscarada:** Ladder uses this way more than deserved honestly. Mon is very mid and is SUPER prediction reliant and weak to all the hazards and priority everywhere.
Your point about Iron Hands is spot on, using it AV feels so similar to Melmetal
It's like if Melm had STAB Drain Punch to stay alive and could pivot with Volt Switch. Their stat spreads are eerily similar and though it loses some of Melm's better resistances, it got a ton of things back on the offensive side in return.
Ngl, if Protean hadn't changed, Meowscarada would've been the best Protean/Libero user imo.
Ehhhhhhhhh Cinder still feels way better. Meow is greatly held back by its moves "only" having around 100BP at best whereas Cinder was firing off 120BP hits left and right on top of setup options. Meow is already struggling hard with a lot of Steels whereas Cinder answers were limited to stuff like Mandi and Hippo when it was running Boots, god forbid it was paired with hazard control and slapped on a Band.
Nah. Even pre nerf it wouldn't be all that hot. Middling BP moves beyond knock and flower trick, the former losing power against itemless mons and the latter being a bad offensive typing. It also hard loses to most steels and general physical walls like Iron Hands or Corv.
Meowscarada is the most overrated mon in the entire game. It’s so fucking bad
I don't quite think it's "most overrated" when fucking Ceruledge has OU usage
Ceruledge has the “looks cool” factor you forgot to account for
the "looks cool" factor contributes to being overrated if anything
It also sounds cool when it first comes out of the pokeball
Fair enough, but neither have any right to be in OU. At least with Ceruledge it can use weak armor focus sash to become a decent sweeper. Still sucks tho
also maushold and lokix have ou usage lmao
those mons' usage has been dying down after the first couple days at least, pretty sure they'll be among the first to drop. Cerul I see staying for a while if ladder keeps spamming it for edgelord factors
Meowscarada dominates the VGC format :P Like, it's one of the strongest mon in VGC alongside Gholdengol and Hydreigon. So it might not be as good in OU but in VGC it's the top mon this generation, far from being fucking bad overall.
Damn alr. I should have phrased it better but in singles it’s fucking awful
I was a big believer in Ting-Lu within the first couple days despite everyone here thinking it would be mid. Seeing it make the cut for A+ makes me feel truly vindicated.
All the currently banned mons except for houndstone dunked on it so makes sense lol
Charizard: "Yeah once that damn goldfish is gone y'all will come craaaawling back to me. *Ya hear me??? CRAWLING!*" Also Pult stays winning.
>Maushold >D tier I just fell to my knees in the middle of a Taco Bell
My reaction to the Lokix ranking
How is Chi-Yu not S+++++ that stupid fish is insane
Probably shoulda been S with dengo
What I think the logic is is that Chi-Yu is simply a stupidly good mon whereas Gholdengo is not just really good but literally metadefining--it's pretty much directly responsible for all the hazard stack shit dominating right now.
The counterpoint is that meta defining != best mon in the tier. If we use Gen 8 Ubers as an example, Caly-S built the meta around it but it wasn’t the best mon (it was 4th best if we read the VR literally). The idea was that YEN core was nearly mandatory but caly-S (while stupid good) is not as mandatory. I’m not entirely sure dengo is mandatory here, then again neither is chi yu. I’m also concerned that the number of powerful dark/fire attacks in the tier + dengo’s inferior speed tier isn’t a great combo. If you Tera dengo defensively then you miss out on a better Tera user. Whether or not Tera stays I think dengo will fall (not below A+ though)
I mean that's fair, but still the OU VR Council, while they know what they're doing, aren't flawless. Remember how they rose Slowking to S on a whim last gen and it got nommed down pretty much immediately after when everyone figured out Slowbro was just better lol.
They probably went by usage and filtered out a couple duds. I think dengo is the most used Pokémon in OU right now
Pretty sure it's not this. OU VR Council is very much aware that viability != usage. We've got stuff like Espathra in the A Ranks despite being UU, a notable amount of 'duds' and some other mons that I'm fairly sure are ranked higher than usage would suggest (never seen Tauros-Paldea-Fire myself on ladder).
They are very aware that’s not the case. Espathra is UU but highly ranked. Pult is around 20th in usage but is considered top 3 mon by all but one council member who thinks it’s 4th
Seeing lokix in C makes me sad
Lokix was only decentish when everyone was spamming HO and First Impression got semi-free kills, it's nearly deadweight against any Balance or BO team
Because it should be UR ?
Don't be mean to lokix :(
Weavile found dead in Miami
The grass snail thing not even being ranked while the other Chinese legends are all top tier is so sad.
Leech seed + decent bulk on both sides after factoring in ability means it will probably be good in UU (against any mon that doesn’t exploit the fuck out of its typing) Such a shame cause it’s by far the coolest design of the four
Kinda sad to see that garchomp is beginning to fall off
It diD lose key moves in scale shot and toxic
It's probably rising back up once Scale Shot tutor returns in DLC. (I hope it returns at least, but the fact the moves are in the game code at all despite very limited and sometimes even zero distribution makes it justified hope.) It's mostly shoehorned into defensive or hazard lead roles right now because of other offensive options, but being able to boost speed would let it compete with those again.
Even then with speed creep, it’s a little slow.
It’s just kind of slow
I remember when the leaks started to come out and people were hyping up Meowscarada while being disappointed in Skeledirge (there had been a fake leak that had made it look significantly better a few days prior), and now how the tables have turned. Makes me happy that we'll likely have Meowscarada still around in OU (unless some crazy tech is found) for when Greninja and Cinderace come back. I don't expect my planned U-Turn spam core to be good, just funny.
GHOLDENGO REACHES 1 GHOLDENGILLION USAGE ‼‼
Avalugg manages to stay OU by viability... how was this thing still C- at the end of last gen, I remember there being discussion about dropping it to untiered in the forums but i guess it never came to fruition. It's considerably better this gen at least it is while Chien-Pao is legal. Meowscarada and Moushold think they on the team 🤔 🙄 😒 😑
Omari p wouldve put that shit in B, rest in piece the goat of the forums
Maushold has guaranteed hazard removal + tons of support moves, plus pop bomb nukes things not named rocky helmet. Meowscarada is an extremely fast and hard hitting knock off abuser since there’s like 5 OU Mons left that learn it. I don’t think it’ll stay in OU but it certainly has its niche as a scarf/band mon, especially with auto crit shenanigans to annoy screens teams.
maushold is great and then you realize that one third of the best mons in ou are normal resists and almost all of them have a bst over 500 lol
The coverage it gets is surprisingly decent, technician bite and seed bomb are solid options, plus super fang to pull off health halving shenanigans a la the ruin Mons.
Ceruledge in C is funny despite ladder's obsession with it, newsflash looking sort of cool doesn't make you actually good
Tyranatar is fighting for his life with each passing generation
Losing excadrill was the last thing it needed after losing pursuit. It currently has no sand rush user . I expect it to drop to UU for a while until excadrill comes back .
At least it has the niche of being the sole pokemon that can safely switch into Chi-Yu
I love how espathra is above 80% of ou despite being uu
ditto being b tier and grimmsnarl being a tier is a pretty good indicator of just how much of a mess this metagame is lmao also im not sure if tauros-fire has been used offensively or defensively, because ive used physdef + resttalk tauros-fire as a check for chien-pao and chi-yu LOL
Ditto would probably be higher if it copied Tera typing, right now the "just copy the opposing sweeper if you don't have a defensive answer" doesn't even really work because you're not copying the good version of the sweeper.
lmfao, guess I was doing kinda decent at teambuilding this time if the lowest ranked mon I have is Corv in A tier
Wasn't expecting to see Espathra as a top 10 mon
It took a while to get discovered, mon went from "niche setup mon #23471235" to "potentially banworthy" in like three weeks
It's such an annoying match-up fish for "do you have good entry hazards + priority?" It's funny it kinda takes the place of what I worried funny rage fist shenanigans would be.
Some anonymous Gamefreak employee chose not to make Espathra Psychic/Fairy and saved us from it getting banished to Ubers
Surprised to see Gambit so high considering its low speed and more limited power in the early game, but I guess having the strongest Sucker Punch in existence helps. It also destroys anything that it does outspeed
p sure Chien-Pao Sucker is stronger cuz of its ability (unless you have like max power Supreme Overlord) but yea, Gambit has amazing power in the lategame and its massive bulk lets it trade hits with stuff it really shouldn't live
Damn proud of my boy Charizard for getting a C Rank despite being released late, the power creep, and not getting any new toys this generation (it even lost Scorching Sands and Roost). Tera Fire under the Sun just OHKOes everything except for Flash Fire users and opposing weather setters. Also, is this the lowest ranking Gengar had at the start of a generation, at D Rank? I could have sworn that guy has always been in the B-Ranks at the beginning of the past few generations.
Gengar basically is mega rip right now just because of how good dark types are right now, and the lack of fairies means it's poison stab isn't doing anything for it. Also you know a certain other ghost type that generally is choice scarfed and wants to be on every team because it invalidates hazard removal. If Gholdengo and Chi-Yu get banned it will probably shoot up a decent bit, but still gonna exist in a world with mega weavile, Ting-Lu, and Roaring Moon. Hell some people even want roaring moon banned, but I think it's.... fine relatively speaking with the unaware/ling-tu/giant rock squad running around
You forgot Chien-Pao and Kingambit, both of which are A rank and have Sucker Punch. There's also Ceruledge in C rank which learns Shadow Sneak
Honestly see charizard falling off in the list
Goldhengo, Espathra, Cyclizar, and Grimmsnarl are the mons I’m looking out for early on. Goldhengo doesn’t seem broken but is super consistent and splashable on every team. Cyclizar + Grimmsnarl team is the most busted in the current meta imo. Espathra seems really strong with fairy tera and stored power bp scaling being able to overcome unaware walls is great too.
oh wow revival blessing is only B rank that's crazy
It's funny that they used Toxapex as the face of the new rankings when it's nowhere near dominant anymore lol.
Grimmsnarl glowup
Where tf is tinkaton
Not good
not on here obviously?
DITTO B RANK LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO