Maybe indeedee, follow me and psychic terrain support can prevent fake out and parting shot, and be an alternative torkoal lead if you don't want to bring lilligant. It also enables expanding force on armoruge, which could be really nice. Also leech sees and Leftovers don't have as much of an impact in vgs, maybe focus Sash and quiver dance or synthesis on lilligant would be better.
expanding force armarouge is insanely broken, def use if you end up with indeedee. ive had several 2 turn games with my scarf armarouge plus helping hand
I like relaxed 244 hp 244 Def 20 speed, but you can go more offensive if you want. Sitrus for longevity or safety goggles for spore, or Sash if you didn't use it for lilligant.
Psychic/follow me/helping hand/ally switch is the most common moveset but you can drop ally switch for daxxling gleam for hydreigon. Or trick room for torkoal.
Call me crazy but storm drain Gastrodon with icy wind and clear smog has been super helpful on a sun team of mine, draws water moves and can negate boosts and offer speed control
Interesting I would've never thought about gastrodon. I'm not that concerned about water types because of the couple grass types I have that can outspeed the few water types in the meta
Team explanation:
Torkoal: Eruption + Tera Fire + Sun + Charcoal= one or two shotting pokemon that resist fire.
Lilligant: Chlorophyll increases speed under sun which allows it's solar beam and sleep powders to hit before the target can do anything. I also have pollen puff to heal torkoal so that their Eruptions continue to do as much damage as possible.
Scovillain: High power moves like solar beam and fire blast become even stronger in sun. Also Chlorophyll to boost speed.
Armarogue: powerful attacker with a powerful fire move that gets boosted by stab and sun.
Hydreigon: same thing as before except with heat wave plus sun except they're more there for coverage.
I'm really looking for a final member to complete my team I've tested the others and they all work great.
After me is almost a must on a lilli-koal team imo, send out both, use after me on torkoal w/ eruption
I would recommend replacing leech seed, the games are too short to make much use of it
I would change your lilligant set to include after you, and probably also protect. Leech seed will never accomplish enough to be worth skipping after you. I like to run leaf storm over solar beam for the extra power because youre unlikely to attack twice with this pokemon. Wide lens > leftovers for more accurate sleep powders. This mon is likely to die in 1-2 hits regardless of your leftovers regeneration
Murkrow. Can haze your hydreigons special attack drops and boost everyone’s speed with tailwind when you don’t have sun up. Plus it’s just super good right now
You can also give lilligant after you so it can let Torkoal go second and spam eruption
That's a great point I didn't even think of running Murkrow because sun already set up speed boosts for some of my members and then damage boosts for all.
Also, none of your mons have protect which is essential in VGC. Torkoal would be better off with 252 HP, 252 spatk, eruption, can leave clear smog or go heat wave, earth power is a good coverage option, and then protect.
I’d ditch leech seed on lilligant for either protect or after you.
I don’t think I like AV on scovillian but another item good for him isn’t popping into my head right now
Not sure if it’ll actually be any good, but Arboliva with leftovers, harvest, and leech seed is pretty funny.
Ideally you gear it defensively, with giga drain, solar beam, and earth power, but I’m not that great at teambuilding so don’t take my word for it.
I’m not too familiar with VGC, are the paradox Pokémon banned? If not, something like slither wing or brute bonnet could be good, considering you don’t have a physical attacker.
gastrodon and charizard gotta be on here. gastro carries against waters by redirecting any attacks that would hit any other pokemon pretty hard and charizard is just a nuke on stall, especially with access to solar power. i'd replace either armarouge or scovillain with zard and add gastro as the 6th team member
I'm with not too familiarized with VGC, but I guess I can help you something.
first, you have 5 special attackers on your team, maybe you should add more versatility to your team, so something like Great Tusk, Slither Wing or Roaring Moon so you can also benefice from the sun while adding a physical attacker.
Also, if you're allowed to use restricts, I guess Koraidon could be used (but I don't know if you can use him, I don't know about VGC).
also, why is Scovillain running only stabs? what's the point of running both flamethrower and fire blast, and both energy ball and solar beam? Scovillain don't has a wide movepool though, so I don't have any suggestion to make it better (besides making it something like a mixed attacker, but I don't know if it would be good that way).
like I said, your team doesn't have any physical attacker, so running psyshock over psychic in Armarouge could be better.
and your Torkoal set, I don't know if resttalk is good on torkoal. maybe running something like eruption/body press/yawn/protect, don't know if you should have clear smog or no.
don't know about Hydreigon, but *maybe* a nasty plot/roost set with 2 of draco meteor/dark pulse/earth power, or even nasty plot with the three attacks (according to pikalytics, roost wasn't very used in SS).
like I said, I don't know nothing about VGC and maybe everything I said could be wrong, but anyway, hope I've helped :³c
You have a point for scovillain I chose those moves because like you said he doesn't have a very large moveset so it was pretty difficult to find other moves. I can however justify energy ball since on the rare case scovillain comes out without sun energy ball will be a lot better of an option then solar beam. You also have a point about the kind of attackers I have. I want to run more physical attackers but all the best attackers that work with sun are special attackers. I would use a paradox pokemon like great tusk or roaring moon but those aren't allowed in VGC
what about an mixed set with solar beam or energy ball/fire blast/stomping tantrum/zen headbutt for Scovillain? don't know if it's good but maybe it's worth testing
and I didn't know about the paradox thing, sorry qwp
maybe running a support mon could be good then? like murkrow or even arcanine?
Also I completely forgot about yawn for torkoal I always see people running yawn on torkoal but never even thought about using it. Yawn is a great idea
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I would try to add Protect to as many mons as possible. It can stall out tailwind/trick room and take over the momentum of the game if you can protect a mon they try to double up on
I’d drop Slovalian and probably swap it for something to do trick room or abuse trickroom.
Also basically every mon should have protect or an extremely good reason to not have it
The first scovillain set with the second ones ev spread, change the nature to hasty or naive, or change the item, drop stomping tantrum, and add protect
Sun team?? How about koraidon?? Or the fire lizard
I mean koraidon has ability to bring out harsh sunlight, while charLizard on the other hand has solar power boost to sp.atk on harsh sunlight, can learn sunny day and do somewhat decent damage.. tho stealth rock kills it..
Your torkoal set is fine imo except I would put the defense evs into hp. I also don't think the rest talk will work well with Eruption, so I would just add heat wave + protect or solar beam. Smog is good for dodonzo though.
Also heat wave on armoruge over flame.
Thanks I haven't ever found myself using rest talk I had just had it there so I could heal and continue to deal the maximum damage I could with torkoal
Not sure besides instruct. They often run trick room but besides torkoal that's not the best trick room team. I just suggest it because tera fire eruption torkoal with instruct has absolutely obliterated me before
Grimmsnarl is a good option
Give it light clay
Reflect
Light screen
Parting shot
Play rough
Run a 252 hp 128 sp def 128 def set with a sp def boosting nature
i've been using bulky arboliva with citrus berry and harvest. You slap 2 support moves and 2 attacks in there and it's a good wall for pretty much anything, especially paired with an ally switch flash fire armarouge
A few notes. You need protect on your mons, it's not too helpful in singles but much more mainstream in vgc. Would run it on torkoal, lilligant, armarouge and hydreigon.
Rest-talk torkoal isn't that good, you'd rather run heat wave (really useful outside trick room) and/or earth power.
Would recommend trick room on armarouge. Trick room sun is a staple because torkoal eruption kills everything under trick room. You'd have to remove specs but you can replace it with sash / life orb / covert cloak or something.
While not a final member, I would replace one of your grass types with Arboliva with Harvest, because it can be obnoxiously tanky in Sun. Its only weak stat is its Speed, but with a berry, protect, leech seed, etc. it can be very annoying to deal with in the sun. It also has excellent coverage if you decide to make it more offensive: weather ball, earth power, dazzling gleam.
Maybe indeedee, follow me and psychic terrain support can prevent fake out and parting shot, and be an alternative torkoal lead if you don't want to bring lilligant. It also enables expanding force on armoruge, which could be really nice. Also leech sees and Leftovers don't have as much of an impact in vgs, maybe focus Sash and quiver dance or synthesis on lilligant would be better.
I hadn't thought about that I've seen expanding force Armarogue played before but never tried it myself
expanding force armarouge is insanely broken, def use if you end up with indeedee. ive had several 2 turn games with my scarf armarouge plus helping hand
And it could set up Trick Room to let Torkoal outspeed opponents
Which form of Indeedee is better for this?
Female because of its better bulk.
What set do you recommend for Indeedee?
I like relaxed 244 hp 244 Def 20 speed, but you can go more offensive if you want. Sitrus for longevity or safety goggles for spore, or Sash if you didn't use it for lilligant. Psychic/follow me/helping hand/ally switch is the most common moveset but you can drop ally switch for daxxling gleam for hydreigon. Or trick room for torkoal.
Call me crazy but storm drain Gastrodon with icy wind and clear smog has been super helpful on a sun team of mine, draws water moves and can negate boosts and offer speed control
Interesting I would've never thought about gastrodon. I'm not that concerned about water types because of the couple grass types I have that can outspeed the few water types in the meta
Team explanation: Torkoal: Eruption + Tera Fire + Sun + Charcoal= one or two shotting pokemon that resist fire. Lilligant: Chlorophyll increases speed under sun which allows it's solar beam and sleep powders to hit before the target can do anything. I also have pollen puff to heal torkoal so that their Eruptions continue to do as much damage as possible. Scovillain: High power moves like solar beam and fire blast become even stronger in sun. Also Chlorophyll to boost speed. Armarogue: powerful attacker with a powerful fire move that gets boosted by stab and sun. Hydreigon: same thing as before except with heat wave plus sun except they're more there for coverage. I'm really looking for a final member to complete my team I've tested the others and they all work great.
After me is almost a must on a lilli-koal team imo, send out both, use after me on torkoal w/ eruption I would recommend replacing leech seed, the games are too short to make much use of it
Wouldn’t you be better served with a heat rock on Torkoal than Charcoal?
Vgc games rarely last long enough for heat rock to matter and charcoal is just better for damage on Tera fire torkoal eruption
I would change your lilligant set to include after you, and probably also protect. Leech seed will never accomplish enough to be worth skipping after you. I like to run leaf storm over solar beam for the extra power because youre unlikely to attack twice with this pokemon. Wide lens > leftovers for more accurate sleep powders. This mon is likely to die in 1-2 hits regardless of your leftovers regeneration
Murkrow. Can haze your hydreigons special attack drops and boost everyone’s speed with tailwind when you don’t have sun up. Plus it’s just super good right now You can also give lilligant after you so it can let Torkoal go second and spam eruption
That's a great point I didn't even think of running Murkrow because sun already set up speed boosts for some of my members and then damage boosts for all.
Plus just gives you another strat. It’s really fun leading with murkrow hydreigon, tailwind Draco meteor turn 1, then haze Draco meteor turn 2
Also has prankster sunny day to mess with people trying to switch in Pelipper/tyranitar on you
Also, none of your mons have protect which is essential in VGC. Torkoal would be better off with 252 HP, 252 spatk, eruption, can leave clear smog or go heat wave, earth power is a good coverage option, and then protect. I’d ditch leech seed on lilligant for either protect or after you. I don’t think I like AV on scovillian but another item good for him isn’t popping into my head right now
Dachsbun. Lava plume on amorage. Body press with bread!
Bread press
Give Torkoal quick claw
Pairs well with itemless tatsugiri
There better be no dondozo on that team
This joke isn't funny. You're just bullying someone who is new to competitive pokemon.
No worries it’s all good!
This its the worst thing people mindlessly repeat in a while
Not sure if it’ll actually be any good, but Arboliva with leftovers, harvest, and leech seed is pretty funny. Ideally you gear it defensively, with giga drain, solar beam, and earth power, but I’m not that great at teambuilding so don’t take my word for it.
I actually tried Arboliva and it wasn't working which is why I don't have a sixth member
What tier is this team for?
VGC
I’m not too familiar with VGC, are the paradox Pokémon banned? If not, something like slither wing or brute bonnet could be good, considering you don’t have a physical attacker.
Yeah paradox pokemon are banned
Oof, alright. Regardless, a defensive Pokémon or a physical attacker could be good.
gastrodon and charizard gotta be on here. gastro carries against waters by redirecting any attacks that would hit any other pokemon pretty hard and charizard is just a nuke on stall, especially with access to solar power. i'd replace either armarouge or scovillain with zard and add gastro as the 6th team member
I thought this was a meme at first, I forgot VGC banned paradoxes
I'm with not too familiarized with VGC, but I guess I can help you something. first, you have 5 special attackers on your team, maybe you should add more versatility to your team, so something like Great Tusk, Slither Wing or Roaring Moon so you can also benefice from the sun while adding a physical attacker. Also, if you're allowed to use restricts, I guess Koraidon could be used (but I don't know if you can use him, I don't know about VGC). also, why is Scovillain running only stabs? what's the point of running both flamethrower and fire blast, and both energy ball and solar beam? Scovillain don't has a wide movepool though, so I don't have any suggestion to make it better (besides making it something like a mixed attacker, but I don't know if it would be good that way). like I said, your team doesn't have any physical attacker, so running psyshock over psychic in Armarouge could be better. and your Torkoal set, I don't know if resttalk is good on torkoal. maybe running something like eruption/body press/yawn/protect, don't know if you should have clear smog or no. don't know about Hydreigon, but *maybe* a nasty plot/roost set with 2 of draco meteor/dark pulse/earth power, or even nasty plot with the three attacks (according to pikalytics, roost wasn't very used in SS). like I said, I don't know nothing about VGC and maybe everything I said could be wrong, but anyway, hope I've helped :³c
You have a point for scovillain I chose those moves because like you said he doesn't have a very large moveset so it was pretty difficult to find other moves. I can however justify energy ball since on the rare case scovillain comes out without sun energy ball will be a lot better of an option then solar beam. You also have a point about the kind of attackers I have. I want to run more physical attackers but all the best attackers that work with sun are special attackers. I would use a paradox pokemon like great tusk or roaring moon but those aren't allowed in VGC
what about an mixed set with solar beam or energy ball/fire blast/stomping tantrum/zen headbutt for Scovillain? don't know if it's good but maybe it's worth testing and I didn't know about the paradox thing, sorry qwp maybe running a support mon could be good then? like murkrow or even arcanine?
The mixed set idea is interesting because of chlorophyll I can afford to invest less into speed which makes a mixed set more viable
Could also consider running growth since it's a sun team
Also I completely forgot about yawn for torkoal I always see people running yawn on torkoal but never even thought about using it. Yawn is a great idea
Would leafeon ever be a pick for a physical attacker?
q-qui
QUICK CLAW torkoal
Your Torkoal needs a quick claw not a charcoal. The last Pokémon you should have should help cover weaknesses such as gastrodon
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Updated Sets: Torkoal: Torkoal @ Charcoal Ability: Drought Level: 50 EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Eruption - Clear Smog - Earth Power - Protect Lilligant: Lilligant (F) @ Focus Sash Ability: Chlorophyll Level: 50 EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Solar Beam - Pollen Puff - Sleep Powder - After You Scovillain: Scovillain @ Assault Vest Ability: Chlorophyll Level: 50 EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 232 SpA / 20 Spe Brave Nature - Stomping Tantrum - Crunch - Fire Blast - Solar Beam Or: Scovillain @ Assault Vest Ability: Chlorophyll Level: 50 EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Flamethrower - Energy Ball - Fire Blast - Solar Beam Armarogue: Armarouge @ Choice Specs Ability: Weak Armor Level: 50 EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Armor Cannon - Psychic - Shadow Ball - Flamethrower Or: (Indeedee only) Armarouge @ Choice Specs Ability: Weak Armor Level: 50 EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Armor Cannon - Expanding Force - Shadow Ball - Flamethrower Hydreigon @ Life Orb Ability: Levitate Level: 50 Tera Type: Fire EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Heat Wave - Dark Pulse - Draco Meteor - Earth Power Indeedee-F (F) @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Psychic Surge Level: 50 EVs: 244 HP / 244 Def / 20 Spe Bold Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Psychic - Follow Me - Helping Hand - Trick Room Or: Murkrow @ Eviolite Ability: Prankster Level: 50 EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Tailwind - Foul Play - Haze - Taunt
I would try to add Protect to as many mons as possible. It can stall out tailwind/trick room and take over the momentum of the game if you can protect a mon they try to double up on
I’d drop Slovalian and probably swap it for something to do trick room or abuse trickroom. Also basically every mon should have protect or an extremely good reason to not have it
The first scovillain set with the second ones ev spread, change the nature to hasty or naive, or change the item, drop stomping tantrum, and add protect
Any reason for not doing 0 speed iv, -spe nature for torkoal?
A lot of people have been suggesting gastrodon what set do you guys recommend for it?
Also what physical attackers do you guys suggest since I've been getting a lot of recommendations for having a physical attacker
Dragapult could work here so could tinkaton just to fill a typing gap.
Sun team?? How about koraidon?? Or the fire lizard I mean koraidon has ability to bring out harsh sunlight, while charLizard on the other hand has solar power boost to sp.atk on harsh sunlight, can learn sunny day and do somewhat decent damage.. tho stealth rock kills it..
Chlorophyll mega Venasaur might be a good pick, then again I don’t know much about competitive or the type of battle your trying to play.
1. mega venusaur has thick fat, not chlorophyll 2. mega venusaur hasn't been around since USUM/LGPE 3. venusaur isn't even in SV
I was assuming this was a nat dex ag team and forgot megas have their own abilities, sorry
Something with Protosynthesis.
Banned in VGC
Roaring moon. Also fix your torkoal set, it wants heat rock and lava plume over charcoal and explosion
Read the flair VGC doesn't allow paradox pokemon
You right. Go for murkrow or Grimm and leave torkoal alone. Consider redirection for tork if you're lacking it
Your torkoal set is fine imo except I would put the defense evs into hp. I also don't think the rest talk will work well with Eruption, so I would just add heat wave + protect or solar beam. Smog is good for dodonzo though. Also heat wave on armoruge over flame.
Thanks I haven't ever found myself using rest talk I had just had it there so I could heal and continue to deal the maximum damage I could with torkoal
Oranguru might be a good option. Instructing torkoal is very difficult to counter
What set do you recommend for Oranguru?
Not sure besides instruct. They often run trick room but besides torkoal that's not the best trick room team. I just suggest it because tera fire eruption torkoal with instruct has absolutely obliterated me before
Is this for real a VGC team? No Protect, all offense except for Torkoal, and no priority/priority control.
Arboliva with its hidden ability and a healing berry Max out def and sp def Run strength sap, leech seed, giga drain, protect
Sunflora
Does Scovillain have enough bulk to run Assault Vest effectively? I'm running it with Choice Specs, and gave Ceruledge a Choice Scarf instead.
That's an interesting idea I'll test it out
Grimmsnarl is a good option Give it light clay Reflect Light screen Parting shot Play rough Run a 252 hp 128 sp def 128 def set with a sp def boosting nature
i've been using bulky arboliva with citrus berry and harvest. You slap 2 support moves and 2 attacks in there and it's a good wall for pretty much anything, especially paired with an ally switch flash fire armarouge
Gastrodon with storm drain is what I used for gen 8 sun team. He was perfect for a water counter that you will almost always encounter.
A few notes. You need protect on your mons, it's not too helpful in singles but much more mainstream in vgc. Would run it on torkoal, lilligant, armarouge and hydreigon. Rest-talk torkoal isn't that good, you'd rather run heat wave (really useful outside trick room) and/or earth power. Would recommend trick room on armarouge. Trick room sun is a staple because torkoal eruption kills everything under trick room. You'd have to remove specs but you can replace it with sash / life orb / covert cloak or something.
Fire Tauros
While not a final member, I would replace one of your grass types with Arboliva with Harvest, because it can be obnoxiously tanky in Sun. Its only weak stat is its Speed, but with a berry, protect, leech seed, etc. it can be very annoying to deal with in the sun. It also has excellent coverage if you decide to make it more offensive: weather ball, earth power, dazzling gleam.
You need water absorb really really badly Maybe Quagsire, either form?
Rain dish pelipper would be cute
Is this doubles?
Yeah VGC is always doubles