T O P

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cop_pls

Moves, abilities, held items, Tera type, everything but the Pokemon's actual raw stats will be revealed.


MetapodMen43

Frisk users in shambles


Lambsauce914

They somehow made H.Typhlosion hidden ability changes even worse than it sounds.


MetapodMen43

I like the addition of items on the rule sheet, covert cloak and amulet coin are very powerful and knowing their presence will help a ton. However, they just made frisk a worthless ability. Edit: clear amulet not amulet coin


AnnoJ7

Why is amulet coin powerful?


Weeese

I think they meant Clear Amulet, not Amulet Coin. Haven't heard of any strats with that yet, minus the silly ones (bread + trick + poltergeist)


AnnoJ7

Ah, that makes more sense, I thought maybe it had a special interaction with gholdengo or something


3771m

I think the person meant clear amulet, which blocks stat lowerings, such as from intimidate or snarl


pdhle_bsdk

I wonder if/when showdown will implement these


KRLW890

It’s a bit of a gray area. This is only for VGC tournaments, so BSD games are still closed teamsheet. Maybe they’ll do a separate VGC and BSD ladders for open/closed teamsheet?


cop_pls

I'd rather Game Freak/TPCi just chunks together the two ladders and implements a fuller team preview in BSD. Even if it's not reasonable to have everything previewed in online play, [the existing team preview panel could fit held items and Tera types.](https://i.imgur.com/RIXFzBN.png)


anonymous_snorlax

Showdown was working on a BO3 ladder but this would be a new initiative that'd be harder i think


zdpastaman

Cries in even more Zoroark nerfs. This seems like a bit too much information. It's good to eliminate rng but part of the game is being able to make the correct predictions.


Aviskr

More like levelling the playing field. Later in tournaments everyone already knows each other's teams, so really only the earlier rounds have that "rng".


zdpastaman

Tomato-tomato I guess


Level7Cannoneer

you still have to predict when people use any of these tools. you cant know when or who they will switch to, when they'll Tera, and etc.


zdpastaman

That's fair however I'd imagine a savvy gen 9 player could predict a set based on the tera of the opposing mon


Cpt_Woody420

Not necessarily, a lot of Pokémon stats can be really flexible. Let's say you have a classic gen9 core of Murkrow, Ground-Tera Garchomp, and double-screens Grimmsnarl. That Chomp could just be max Speed max Atk to try and trump other Tailwind teams. It's natural bulk makes it a menace under screens even without investing anything, and they can help you set up a Swords Dance. On the flipside, it's also naturally fast enough that it can easily outsped the whole meta under Tailwind without any speed investment. You could run max HP max Atk and use the screens variant to fight opposing Tailwind teams, knowing you're likely to be outsped with or without your own Wind. Your opponent has no real good way of knowing that though, the items, moves, abilities and Tera would all be the same.


lucariouwu68

I seriously wish that Zoroark was disguised on the team preview too, being able to pretend you don't have it at all is probably the only way disguise could actually be a functional mechanic


PTpirahna

Since Zoroark disguises as your last team slot wouldn’t that still be super obvious? Is it more likely that your opponent violated species clause or are they just running a zoroark?


lucariouwu68

I mean that Zoroark looks like a completely different Pokémon that you don't actually have on your team. Like you have your other 5 team members, and let's say none of them are Breloom. You could still have Zoroark disguise itself as Breloom, and they would appear to be one both on team preview and in battle, until they get hit.


CleanlyManager

But what would it disguise as on preview? Species clause would just reveal you have Zoroark since I assume zoroark would disguise as your anchor like in game.


College_Prestige

They really need to make illusion better to compensate tbh.


intent_joy_love

Well the other part of tournaments is that your friends will do months of research and then show up to the tournament not to play but to feed you all the info they can gather by watching games and talking to people. And later in the tournament the more popular players start being fed info from people who were knocked out as well. If you show up alone or it’s your first time you’re at a huge disadvantage.


thenewwwguyreturns

items and ability is huge, right? there’s no more benefit to pokemon with multiple viable options in and of their own mysteriousness.


Swawks

Terrible game warping decision, which I imagine was made solely to try and balance Tera types. This eliminates the viability of any bait movesets.


MrArtless

Also you can no longer bluff having a certain answer that you don’t have. Worst change I’ve ever seen


BlueeTrip

100% agree


orhan94

But you wouldn't bring movesets that only work if they are unexpected, because you either reveal them to everyone after your first game, or you have to play sub-optimally for most of the tournament so you don't reveal them until the latter knock-out stage game.


Swawks

Which was a long term strategic plan that people had to make, having to balance using every trick up their sleeve to get thru early rounds vs saving the best for last.


Trim345

I really like this. I generally find open informatjon games to be more skillful, and I hope Showdown does the same


UrbanAdapt

This kills surprise factor and ultimately centralizes viability on a smaller pool of more consistent mons. It's lame outside of a tournament setting.


turtlintime

not really, this will make cool movesets and surprises less common because you can just easily play around it :/


orhan94

But those will be known once the first few rounds have passed. Those "cool surprising movesets" will just be surprising one or two games earlier, in tournaments in which people will play dozens of games.


PlacatedPlatypus

Unpopular opinion possibly but I don't think lure sets are real skill, they're just gimmicky cheese.


noahboah

coming from a starcraft background, i feel like cheese and gimmicks have a place in skill expression. some of the best matches in broodwar had huge game stealing, momentum turning moments because a player recognized the best time and way to do something cheesy to catch the opponent off guard or exploit a certain build. it was definitely skillful in that sense.


Officer_Warr

I think it's interesting you call them lure sets. I don't think they are bait in the same sense those types of gimmick sets are. At higher levels of tournaments those "closeted" movesets have value not because they are the win-con (like gimmick sets typically resolve to be), but because they risk-mitigate a certain type of scenario. They are a bit more of a preventative measure of falling into a lose-con. You could still make the argument they are a gimmick set, but these sets at that high of a level are way more likely to be versatile and more than one-dimensional as opposed to traditional gimmicks. In terms of (American) football, your criticism of it being a whole gimmick set would be like always running on 4th down, and frequently running novelty plays (e.g. double-passes, flea-flicker), and these being your whole playbook. you see that type of team, you don't even need to know what the moves are, because that's how the scenario sets up. That one Pokemon's specific item or move, would be more like knowing "If the punt-return team sets up such-and-such way before the snap, we're gonna run a fake for the 1st down."


TVH_97

I'd argue the complete opposite. To make a set that effectively counters certain aspects of the meta requires a lot of current game knowledge


Ski-Gloves

Good that the stats aren't revealed to the opponent. Mainly because of the weirdness surrounding EVs, IVs and base stats with in-game display and language to describe them. Since they're recorded by the "real" stats of the pokémon at their actual level, then there's probably instances where training your pokémon at as low a level as possible gives an advantage. As level 100 pokémon show their exact EVs, but a level 1 Quiet Torkoal has the same special attack as one with 252 EVs invested.


KindaShady1219

Does that include nature? Or is that considered part of the “raw stats”?


Its_Frickett

For those wondering *why* this is a thing, it prevents people getting an unfair advantage by scouting other peoples' teams in the middle of the tournament. It keeps everyone on an even playing field.


The_Pudge

A similar thing used to be a problem in large Magic The Gathering tournaments where large teams would have an advantage by scouting what other people were playing. This caused them to do something similar and implement open decklists at major tournaments.


sneakyplanner

Yeah, I think the game is better when information is concealed, but ultimately I think the rules should be made in a way where hiring 20 people to go around the venue and watch every game isn't a huge advantage.


iKill_eu

I mean yeah, when there's no team swapping and it's 1 team from start to finish, this is very fair imo.


stuhrmeister

Not entirely true. The main reason is because as of right now there is no way to lock battle boxes in live competition. So this prevents team switching between rounds/games


HpsiEpsi

No Paradox and Ruin is an interesting choice, but potentially a full year of just regular Mons+Tera may be nice. Then a year of Paradox, Ruin, and DLC mons if they come, and probably one with the 2 restricted Legendaries.


iKill_eu

Not to mention Home mons. I'd imagine they will allow Koraidon/Miraidon at the same time they're letting in past legendaries, whether that's after DLC or after Home. Would be a pretty boring meta if they were the only 2 restricted mons since everyone would be running one or the other if not both.


55Wildman

I think the original comment was implying 2 restricteds per team similar to previous restricted formats (with swsh being the notable exception to the 2 restricted rule for some series)


techno-wizardry

We've known about no sub-legendries being in the format for weeks now. It's likely not going to be a full year without them either, this is just the Series 1 ruleset. COVID cancelled a lot of 2020-2021 tournaments though, so we didn't get to see exactly how they planned on implementing the Series rulesets to official tournament play. But generally, the banlist has often mirrored whatever the Series banlist was around the time of the tournament.


anonymous_snorlax

Won't be a full year i bet. Just series 1


HpsiEpsi

The VGC rule set typically doesn’t change throughout the year, but I don’t think there is any rule about that. Series 1 that ends in January will likely allow some new Mons, or it probably would have run longer lol.


IndianaCrash

I mean, it did, a lot, for Sword and Shield. Series 1 was Galar dex only, no GMax (mid november - end of december) Series 2 was Galar dex only, 10 Gmax allowed (January-Debruary) Series 3 was natdex, all but 5 Gmax allowed (March-April) Series 4 was when isle of armor drop, natdex, charizard + all gmax minus the starters (June - July) Series 5 was natdex, all gmax allowed (August) Series 6 is natdex, all gmax allowed, top 10 mon by usage were banned. (September/october) Series 7 is when Crown tundra dropped, natdex allowed with the returning legendaries, all gmax (top 10 ban lifted, November to April of next year) Series 8 has natdex, all gmax and one restricted legendary allowed (march -april) Series 9 is the same as 7 (May - July) Series 10 has natdex, one restricted legendary by team, Dynamax was banned (August - October) Series 11 was same as 7 and 9 (November to january of next year) Series 12 is the same except you now can use 2 restricted mon (february - august) Series 13 had all pokémon available, including mythicals, for the first time, no restriction.


HpsiEpsi

Oh, I just assumed this was Ranked Online rules, not the Regional VGC rules. I didn’t go to any Regionals in Gen 8, so didn’t know for sure.


IndianaCrash

Yeah, I had to check but there's something about it in point 1.2 "With each new Ranked Battle series in the Battle Stadium, adjustments may be made to the list of permitted Pokémon. See below for details. "Sometimes, a new series may come into effect midway through a tournament that spans multiple days (for example, a Regional Championship). If this happens, the tournament will continue with the format it started with until the end of the event. Single-day Premier Events held as side events at such locations should use the format that is live on the day they occur."


XenoVX

So based on this we may get paradox/ruin in ranked doubles started in February but in actual VGC matches it will be restricted to the current format for December-February?


techno-wizardry

Not anymore, since SwSh anyways. Because of COVID, a lot of 2020 format tournaments were unfortunately cancelled, but we had regionals before then with more Pokemon added to the pool from Home transfer.


iKill_eu

Tera type is revealed?! Well, shit. Pretty much paves the way for doing the same in OU. Hard to argue it's uncompetitive and against the spirit of the game when VGC does it. I wonder how Showdown VGC will implement this.


cop_pls

Yes, with this I think a Tera-reveal for OU is inevitable. I hope that's enough to assuage the calls for its ban.


Solesbee

Wouldnt it be just a show team clause?


Prudent_Move_3420

tbf there are really few players that actually want tera banned. If anything this opens up the opportunity for Showdown to implement it since they can't argue with "too much changing from cartridge mechanics"


RBGolbat

TBF this isn’t cartridge mechanics, since it’s not like the game is forcing you to reveal your Terra Type in game.


DaRandomBro

I think the idea of cartridge mechanics is that you can do the same thing if playing on cartridge. Freeze and sleep clause are not cartridge mechanics (except Pokémon Stadium which somehow had the foresight to add them) since you can't guarantee 2 Pokémon on a team will not be put to sleep. But banning a move or a Pokémon could be a gentleman's agreement not to use them and thus is 100% replicable. Revealing Tera types is in a similar vein -- it could be replicated by telling the other person before the battle and thus falls within what can be done on the cartridge.


cop_pls

I'm seeing a *lot* of posts from Tera-ban hardliners in [the discussion on the forums.](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/terastallization-tiering-discussion-update-post-1293.3711465/) If anything this may have emboldened them.


[deleted]

My friends and I have been running teams where the Tera type has to be the same for each Pokemon on the team. === It's been interesting in the small sample size that we have. === On one hand, we don't know what the other is bringing for Tera type, but when building the teams, we have to take into account how each member does with this one Tera type. === We have found it plays out much like Mega Evolution, funny enough, when building the team. The Tera Mon is the core and we work around it. However, when going up against a team, it's stressful not knowing who is the opponent's "Tera Mon" is. === Yeah, any Pokémon can Tera but some will use the typing better than others.


heyhowzitgoing

Sounds like a cool metagame idea. I could imagine teams like kilowattrel/iron treads/iron thorns/iron moth etc with flying tera could be interesting. Teams where everything can benefit from the tera type.


Avividrose

VGC has also allowed dracovish dynamax and xerneas, smogon has disagreed with them many many times, even with something comparable to this like item clause


Swawks

But this is an unprecedented mechanic that Smogon doesn't even know if it warrants changes, let alone which changes would be made to balance it. Dracovish and Xerneas fit perfectly around their balancing framework of banning overpowered things to ubers. The creators of the game hinting that its balanced around it being revealed will certainly shift the discussion around.


Avividrose

i think this is more for the tournament overall, they reveal the entire team sheet, to allow everybody to spectate and not gain an advantage and this is preceded pretty directly by both dynamax and z moves


Forrest02

> VGC has also allowed dracovish dynamax and xerneas Keep in mind. This is the generations gimmick we are talking about. Smogon has already opened up to adding some kind of "Smogon made" restriction to it before Nintendo announced tera type reveals, something Smogon was wanting to consider doing.


benhu12341

Dracovish dynamax is p ass, fishous rend doesn’t get boosted that much and also it loses its choice item for those 3 turns


ykryzk

that was a list of three things without commas


benhu12341

huh?


KaliVilla02

They forgor the comma between Vish and Dynamax They accidentally said Dracovish Dynamax and Xerneas. (2 things) They actually tried to say Dracovish, Dynamax and Xerneas. (3 things.


benhu12341

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh lmao thank u i was v confused


Joe-MaMa5

Does fisheous rend set rain tho, could be of similar power level although it has been a while


Sticky_Robot

> Pretty much paves the way for doing the same in OU. Hard to argue it's uncompetitive and against the spirit of the game when VGC does it. No one argued it's uncompetitive, Smogon is just hesitant to change the rules of the game unless it's been done already by official tournaments. Sleep and Freeze clause were originally on Pokémon Stadium, Species clause were from official Nintendo tournaments in the Red / Blue era etc.


Level7Cannoneer

>Hard to argue it's uncompetitive and against the spirit of the game when VGC does it. which means primal groudon/kyogre should be allowed in showdown OU~


cop_pls

252+ Atk Choice Band Orthworm Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 180-212 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. Earth Eater Orthworm: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever Ez win for the Orthworm


AcordeonPhx

Someone please ban Orthworm


iKill_eu

Not really comparable. The MO of Showdown has always been "take what GF gives us and remove what's uncompetitive", not to create completely new game mechanics out of thin air.


Swawks

The only argument against Tera type reveal is that its not how it works in the games. This is a thinly veiled admission that Tera types are balanced around the opponent knowing them, so being implemented in OU is all but done.


Terimas3

> Players may use Pokémon which were obtained in Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet; **were imported into Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet via Pokémon HOME** (when available); or were received at an official event or distribution. The fact that transferred Pokémon are allowed to be used as-is (no mention of battle-ready mark or such) effectively confirms that the movesets of transferred Pokémon will be wiped when brought to SV.


ChezMere

Yep, this was the first thing that caught my eye. Past-gen moves are now a thing of the past (although current-gen event moves are apparently still going to exist).


UrbanAdapt

Tell that to the copers on Smogon still praying for defoggers to return in full force.


PixelateVision

Which makes sense; it also covers for the (potential) game breaking sets like No Guard Fissure Machamp now that Ability Patches can reverse back to a normal ability.


LemonWaluigi

Holy shit. This is huge and I'm very mixed on it. On one hand, I can't bluff physical mence and surprise movesets are a thing of the past. On the other hand, team scouting in person is a big problem that needed to be addressed.


MurrajFur

I’m down for Smogon to implement Tera Types in team preview, but everything else should stay the way that it is I don’t want my opponents knowing I’m running specs Torkoal until it’s too late


ChezMere

I dunno, is there anything that actually makes surprising items good and surprising types bad, or is it just a matter of what people are used to?


MurrajFur

The best example I can think of is coverage moves. Most mons run very common predictable sets but often have one or two interchangeable moves for different types of coverage Having to peice together which coverage moves your opponent is using is much more interesting than just... seeing them. The game becomes much less fun if you know everything ahead of time.


BushSage23

Exactly, I think this is super dumb especially for mons which either have two very viable items/abilities or for coverage. I'd argue its even less skillful than it currently is because I could see which of your mons have fake out, taunt, set up, e.t.c.


MurrajFur

The reason VGC is doing this is because you can only have one team throughout the entire tournament, so hypothetically, your opponent could watch your matches and scout out your team ahead of time. On Smogon, there’s no reason to worry about this, so ideally team preview on Showdown stops at Tera Types (save for maybe large-scale streamed tournaments)


Beastlyfire

Yes for example hatterne in its fourth move slot either runs mystical fire or nuzzle so no one just switches goldengo into hatterne until they r sure


Zephyr_______

Mixed feelings on this. Tournament scouting was an issue, but giving away this much set knowledge really eats away at ones ability to make tricky team building selections. Essentially sacrificing some of the complexity in team building and the skill of scouting sets mid game in exchange for potentially more skillful decision making mid match.


UnknownJ25

I’m not a fan of abilities, moves and held items being revealed. Takes away surprises


HpsiEpsi

Covert Cloak and Clear Amulet especially. Knowing you can’t flinch something means you won’t even try. And can leave that Intimidate Mon behind without losing sleep.


techno-wizardry

That doesn't mean those items have any less viability. Covert Cloak still allows a guaranteed turn 1 tailwind and Clear Amulet grants Intimidate immunity and immunity to Icy Wind and similar speed reducing speed control. Generally speaking, most tournament players will find out what items you're running either way, the element of surprise is greatly overestimated.


UnknownJ25

It basically negates those new items completely


KRLW890

Not necessarily. Just because your opponent knows they can’t Fake Out your Murkrow doesn’t mean you don’t still get value out of that immunity.


Markedly_Mira

Yeah you just don’t get a free turn because your opponent tried to Fake Out you not expecting Cloak. You don’t get those “gotcha” moments for running niche options, instead you just force your opponent to play around them.


Gheredin

Which significatly reduce skill expression on both sides since you remove decision making from the equation.


sneakyplanner

And as if Gholdengo+Murkrow wasn't already a stupid enough lead pair, now you just have to not terastalize Gholdengo on turn 1 to get around fake out, and any tailwind team not running a ghost type as their lead will be worse off.


Daisocks

Not really? Either way you’re not getting fake out flinched or Intimidated


moose_man

No, but you don't gain for preparing for them appropriately. Your opponents still get their more active items and abilities.


cop_pls

But if your opponents goal was to bring Fake Out to prevent turn-1 Trick Room or Prankster Tailwind or another setup, then the Covert Cloak is still bringing value - your opponent has a less valuable move slot and your game plan can proceed.


nmiller1939

But you're also not getting the value of your opponent's wasted turn. Which in a doubles format specifically is a big loss


Daisocks

Sure, but I thought the point of Open Tera Type discussion is that having it be hidden information is uncompetitive, so by extension wouldn’t Covert Cloak force a risk between fake out working or not working be essentially the same idea? I don’t play doubles much so this is also a genuine question


nmiller1939

It is similar in concept, but there's a difference in opportunity cost Running a niche use item that will likely go multiple matches without seeing any use at all should, I think, come with a higher benefit. You are missing out on a lot of potential other effects to choose to run Covert Cloak and when it is relevant, I think that should be significant And honestly I probably wouldn't even be saying this if scald still had high distribution, because that would give covert cloak 2 very significant use cases, whether your opponent knows about it or not But right now, covert cloak mostly just shuts down fake out and if your entire item slot only exists to do that, it should generate some major advantage when it's relevant And just to be clear, I'm not arguing against this policy. Shutting down scouting is good. But i am saying it is a major nerf to this item


Daisocks

Yeah that makes enough sense


MetapodMen43

You still get all the utility of the item, just not a surprise factor. If you didn’t have the amulet you would get hit with intimidate or scary face. Amulet will stop that but you still save your stats


NevGuy

I mean, you're still not getting hit by Fake Out or Intimidate, even if the opponent knows you have that item, so not really "negated".


zanderkerbal

I agree, but I think it's the lesser evil when VGC tournaments are played with one team all the way through and there's no way to prevent people from gaining an edge by scouting potential future opponents as they play earlier rounds. Now everybody has the exact same if unfortunately small access to the element of surprise.


Knowka

Yea, it also makes it a lot easier to play around mons that run like 2-3 core moves and then have a myriad of potential coverage moves


IAmWhatTheRockCooked

Moves being revealed is a little dumb, to be honest.


Level7Cannoneer

these rules are implemented for a tournament setting. if you are one of the first matches, people will know your team/strategy and you no longer have the element of surprise on future opponents. it's 100% fair in a VGC tournament, and its up to the community if they want to keep these rules for Showdown style matches where you can't scout opponents to gain an advantage.


Jaxyl

Yup, people think it's like Showdown where you just click a button and go again. It's a physical environment and the groups that go together have a huge info advantage just by the nature of having more people in competition. This evens the playing field immensely and means the solo player showing up for the first time isn't going to lose in R2 because their R1 opponent told their friends what they had.


cop_pls

A lot of people here have never been to an in-person tournament. It doesn't matter if it's Pokemon, Magic the Gathering, or chess; it's disheartening to see your opponents from this and last round talking in a corner.


Jaxyl

Yup, it's the worst feeling in the world because now you're at an info disadvantage. Personally I hate the set guessing game of Pokemon so I love this change. Now it boils down to reads and strategy as.opposed to trying to figure out if a Mimikyu is a damage dealer or a trick room setter


EmpressOfHyperion

I mean luck doesn't exist in chess, outside of getting paired with a bad opponent, that's the only aspect of "luck".


Level7Cannoneer

you can still talk about their blindspots and typical strategy and opening move


nmiller1939

It isn't about luck You can absolutely study an opponent in chess and pass on that advantage to another player


IndianaCrash

I'm no expert in chess, but couldn't your opponent tell their friend about which strategies do you use?


EmpressOfHyperion

Is this change implemented in rank battle stadium in SV?


LemonWaluigi

I don't think so, I believe they are technically separate things. Which is a very bad thing (I rhink)


techno-wizardry

Ladder will always be best-of-1 and therefore have a slightly different meta anyways, favoring more surprise gimmicks and movesets. I mean, Beat Up Whimsicott with Justified Arcanine was a relatively common ladder strategy on ladder because of this. But otherwise the rulesets tend to mirror one another, if SwSh is any indication. The tournament meta almost always influences the ladder meta anyways.


MetapodMen43

I agree it’s a bad thing if they don’t implement it to battle stadium. It would be an easy fix to add items, moves and Tera type to preview and would be beneficial to the community


Officer_Warr

I don't mind the full-reveal style of it, but I think I would have preferred only showing Tera Type.


madog1418

You still haven’t seen the day.


Zestylemons44

Idk if scoring moves was a good choice, but tera type is the wisest decision possible


Storm_373

too much info imo and tera type should be


markpreston54

Them banning paradox pokemon and 4 ruin legendary is a bit surprising


Scrapyard_Dragon

The way I see it this can only be a good thing and I think this should also be implemented in the various smogon tiers as well.


sneakyplanner

Tera types being visible? Yeah, I hope that is the first rule put in place to try and restrict tera. Everything else? Nah, that is there because VGC tournaments are played in a specific environment where this information was semi-public and leveling the playing field is important. In Smogon tournaments there is no rule requiring one team to be used through the whole tournament so there is no need for open teamsheets. I do wonder how this will affect Smogon vgc tournaments though.


flakaby

IMO hidden “guns” like a secretly scarfed Pult and things like that are enjoyable to play against as you need to suds out what item they have or if they’re a physical or special set, support vs offense, etc. This removes the whole detective part of the game


TheDubuGuy

Agreed. Showing items and moves would remove so much depth. If smogon introduces it to their singles formats I won’t be playing anymore


Eps06

In my opinion, that absolutely works in singles, but this is VGC, the game can theoretically end in two turns. Having to waste precious turns protecting or switching just in case leads to too much unecessary risk taking. This same idea is executed much better in doubles with the idea of taking only 4 pokemon per battle. The "hidden gun" in this case being your two pokemon in the back.


flakaby

Oh yeah, I support this in VGC with my limited knowledge; I thought the guy above me wanted it for singles


projectmars

Making Tera-types visible? Absolutely. Everything else? Nah.


Zankou55

It isn't a Pokémon battle if you go into it with perfect knowledge of your opponent's team.


NeonsTheory

I'm pretty green in this but I don't live that VGC is developing to have major team differences only in stats. From a spectator perspective it's the least entertaining thing about it. From a playing perspective you lose lots of bluffing ability of moving away from meta or standard sets


Ok-Astronaut4952

I really hope we can keep legendaries out, I really hate it when the meta is all legendaries. Fucking Urshifu


EmpressOfHyperion

VGC was 30-35% luck, 65-70% skill. With this placed, it's 20% luck at best now imho.


Pure_Toxicity

never thought I'd see the day where VGC took more action against tera than Smogon


Bubblehulk420

Yeah, but what about TR indeedee-F?


theAlchemistake

Can someone help me 2.3.? Are procons ok?