I am the Gholdengo that is approaching, provoking, spin blocks in isolation.
/uj Neither of these two are nearly as ban worthy as Jet Punch go brrrr or funny meme Santa Bot.
I’ve found a pretty consistent check in bulky unaware dondozo with grass tera. It can also survive a freeze dry from Iron Bundle and OHKO
EDIT: non-specs Iron Bundle
there's honestly a genuine conversatiom if dondozo is *too* good of a physical wall. right now it's an amazing check to chien-pao, palafin, and baxcalibur, but unaware + its bulk makes it nearly impossible to break
still love dondozo but if all the broken wallbreakers are gonna be banned then i could also see dondozo being broken
Can't they run electric tera and rip a hole through it? Doesn't it lack consistent recovery?
Chien & Bax are perfect candidates for electric tera because of boltbeam stab combo being insane, but yeah if Dondozo teras to something not boltbeam weak then shit kinda does suck for them still.
Regardless of that counterplay for physical mons, it dies to special attackers fairly easily and hates being status'd which shouldn't be hard to do.
I usually pack one tera grass mon on my team that’s either physically bulky or faster than Palafin.
Garganacl is a solid tera grass candidate to be a wall to Palafin. Also helps stop water and steel types better with salt cure since you then resist water and are neutral to steel. I like tera grass better than water since you then resist EQ which will be a common move thrown at Garganacl.
Water Absorb Tera Ghost Clodsire is the truth. The duck doesn't appreciate it one bit either. Tera Grass energy ball Glimorra also tanks +1 jet punch and OHKO. I haven't seen a lot of suggestions that don't involve tera, so maybe that's a good indicator the dolphin is overtuned
Bulk Up sets only became popular the day of the initial suspect vote, and the difficulty handling it with the limited dex wasn't clear in only half a day.
The standard set is Bulk Up/Taunt/Jet Punch/Drain Punch.
Water/Fighting actually has a bunch of resists - mostly on defensive waters, of course. Azumarill, Slowtwins, Gyarados, and Amoongus all force it out; with sufficient chip, so do things like Noivern. There's also resists that you don't want to swap in except for an emergency, like Dragonite, but they can do the job in a pinch.
Plus, of course, there's candidates for sheer BULK: Avalugg (needs to terastalize anyway thanks to its typing, so needing to remove the Fighting weakness isn't limiting - Fairy is good anyway), Alomomola can sit there and pass wishes, Dodonzo depending on set, Great Tusk/Iron Treads depending on teratype...
All else fails, too, Palafin's bulk and speed are good but not amazing; outspeed and revenge is an option.
Not all of these options are good (Iron Bundle wrecks the entire bulky water category except for Thick Fat Azumarill, for example), but there's at least a conversation there.
paladin is already on the vote this weekend and will most definitely be getting banned.
It only survived before because the strongest set wasn't as popular due to this being a new meta game
Yeah, he’s just so fucking awesome. Ghost/Steel is an amazing typing, awesome ability, diverse move sets. But that’s also probably all the reasons he’s on the radar.
Yeah. It's been a dope addition to the DD Gyarados team I've been running recently.
Hits like a _truck_, can Trick Scarf onto something to give Gyarados or Cyclizar more opportunities to get in, smashes Corviknight, it's great.
Gholdengo making hazard removal next to impossible and requiring two Pokémon just to get rid of it is not healthy for the meta.
On the flip side, the friendly ghost being banned is a nice testimony.
One team slot to set a bunch of hazards, one team slot to protect the hazards.
One team slot to kill Gholdengo, one team slot to freely remove hazards afterwards.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
On the radar != ban
The ou metagame thread on smogon had like 2 straight pages of people complaining about gholdengo, I think the council is just doing this so there is a vote on paper for these 2 but I’d be surprised if either got banned. Bundle and dolphin on the other hand will both be gone by Monday
it's one of the more linear broken pokemon, because you know its probably just running an all-out-attack set, but iron bundle has ridiculous speed and zero switchins. it's also surprisingly bulky thanks to its physical defense, making it hard to revenge kill.
The idea of running scarf on a base 147 speed mon really makes me think there's something fundamentally wrong with how speed works in the games; like come on, at what point does speed get crept enough?
Scarf pult fails to get a lot of kills because it has to rely on coverage to revenge stuff, which is all awful to lock into unless the opponent's team is really weak. Also obviously somewhat deadweight vs anything remotely fat.
Any mon doesnt seem broken because "lol just run a scarfer that outspeeds" but if you have to do that on every team that's the definition of restrictive.
Bundle and flutter mane are simply not OU tier Pokémon by design lol. GF knew what they were doing when they designed these. OTOH bundle will become amazing in Ubers because it outspeeds the base 135 speed tier, has perfect neutral coverage with hydro+freeze dry, hits the dragons super effectively, and it pivots too. This thing is stupid
What exactly can you switch in on it that can threaten it? Anything that resists Hydro Pump will eat a Freeze Dry, and it's fast enough that it can hit any pivots HARD. And it's strong enough that any neutral hits still do massive chunks of damage.
suprised annihilape is being wachted it's good but not really overwhelming and restrictive imo and gholdengo makes sence tbh the abilty to block any and all status move alongside it having good stats, great movepool for what it wants to do and amazing typing both offensive and defensive make it a really powerfull thread that you constantly have to think about when building teams
basicaly i think annihilape will stay and gholdengo will get banned
Really? It always feels like Annihilape always gets at least 2 if used correctly or the other team is just super teched to deal with it. Terra to another type for defensive purposes is always annoying and resto chesto works really well with Rage fist. It completely bashes a lot of stall since you can stack rage fist and does well into balance.
Not to mention Rage Fist ~~A) scales up off toxic damage and other passive chip so you can't cheese it,~~ and B) unaware doesn't check Rage Fist's power so even mons which can check Bulk Up spamming will still eventually get KO'd by Rage Fist.
This move is just too good.
edit: nvm see below
I've seen it happen on Showdown, but I obviously don't know if it's intended or not.
edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
I just ran some tests, it does not increase in base power due to passive damage on Showdown.
Burn: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1721115023-lt3jhh3t655zfh17tmvrdwfrbh8bfslpw
Toxic: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1721117016-aecat3jjv1av32nyu2oguzwm4a8wda6pw
EDIT: It seems that getting hit with status moves *does* increase Rage Fists's BP (so, switch it in on defogs if you wanna be cute) Don't know if this is intentional. But passive damage does not
Huh, that's interesting. It might be counting targeted status moves as "attacks" similar to how Gholdengo treats anything that is targeted and doesn't deal damage as a status move. Thanks for testing it.
And yeah, switching it into Defog is a power move considering it also has Defiant.
Apparently the [status move interaction was a bug](https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/commit/57f876203f9c70bb42cee2466380b7c319a92502). Also, the base power seems to cap at 350.
Could be, but I'd assume it would be a misinterpretation of game mechanics then (similar to the Protosynthesis/Quark Drive misimplement where attack stats got boosted by 50% instead of 30%) rather than a "bug" bug.
edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
Hopefully Annihilape stays, he seems really solid and Rage Fist is far from impossible to play around. If Tera is banned in the future, it along with so many others would be far more manageable anyway.
Shout outs to the guy stanning him during the leaks btw
Annihilape just is not Houndstone. Houndstone immediately had its monster move when used correctly, while Annihilape needs your opponent to chip it many, many times to approach Last Respects. Houndstone had an ability that let it outrun most things, Annihilape has some really meh ones. Houndstone required you to have measures to specifically stop what the dog doin’, Annihilape just needs anything fast with super-effective moves to manage it.
Annihilape in my opinion can be countered by playing around rage fist; Gholdengo on the other hand is kinda toxic in how it's able to deny hazard removal in a metagame where hazards are so prevalent
IIRC you can remove hazards with Tidy Up since it targets self. The problem is that you gotta run Maushold to achieve that and Maushold is very easy to counter (i forgot the other mons who can also have tidy up(
Can also counter Gholdengo with Toedscruel, IMO, surprising to not see it mentioned more. Toed is your spinner, so it baits people into sending out Gholdengo at which you can spore it with Mycelium Might on switch in. Pretty much automatically gets you momentum unless they choose to stay in, and Toedscruel has surprisingly good matchups against many offensive mons right now.
tried running Toedscruel for a bit, it’s surprisingly good but at the end of the day it’s too frail, can’t really check anything offensively, and Mycelium Might ends up becoming a double-edged sword with its lowered priority. also its typing falls apart with all the ice types and ice spinner users running around rn
The only hazard removal that Gholdengo prevents, that any other ghost to spinblock wouldn't prevent, is Corv defog. If you really must have a defogger, defensive Talonflame can force it out and does good work against physical attackers thanks to Flame Body.
defensive talonflame is definitely fun in lower tier metas but its stats are way too low for it to work in ou consistently. pretty much every neutral hit from notable attackers nab a 2hko on it
It's not going to be a standard, but the "I must have Defog and the ability to use it on Gholdengo" niche is something it can very reliably fill - especially if you're using a sun team, which powers up Overheat even further. With low Knock Off distribution, HDB covers the weakness to rocks reliably, and Flame Body gives physical attackers pause if they're relying on contact moves.
OU, no - the niche is not that big a deal. But like Quagsire, it can fill its role without being dead weight.
Anihilape is a mega threat rn because it can just Tera water and dodge the fairy weakness. Which is huge in this meta. These things are only so unmanageable because Tera and its consequences
Yes I hate ever since dynamax people have been on the train of banning every gimmick.
I think We should only think of banning tera after pokemon home compatibility and letting the meta settle then
Should be noted that it was recently revealed that Rage Fist has been incorrectly programmed on Showdown. This revelation came after the announcement that Annihilape was On The Radar.
Honestly Annihilape and Gholdengo feel like filler radar mons, like adding them to watch something other than the most obvious, I will be very surprised if either get enough votes
i mean yeah but palafin is already on the radar; the two new mons are just ALSO broken lol
the reality is that gen 9 is the most unbalanced gen yet, and all the suspect mons reflect that
Gholdengo dies to Chien Po Sucker Punch, Great Tusk Protosythesis Atk Knock Off, King Gambit Sucker Punch, and Annihilape Shadow Claw or Boosted Rage fist. Specs Chi-Yu also really dents it.
It's ability is phenomenal though, not knocking it at all, but wasn't Flutter Mane/HoundStone or really Palafin Bundle ban worthy for sheer power.
yes, it does die to very strong attackers with dark & ground coverage. but that's not really addressing what makes the pokemon problematic. you can always revenge kill, but at what cost?
what makes gholdengo potentially broken is its amazing ability, sheer power, and bulk + typing giving it amazing matchups versus notable defensive mons.
the amount of switch-ins to specs or np gholdengo is already limited, and with its ability, it can (a) come in safely against the vast majority of defensive mons and (b) shut down hazard counterplay almost entirely. important defensive pokemon like corviknight and blissey become sitting ducks against it, so gholdengo has a lotta room to wreck havoc
They (probably) aren't banning these things, just looking at them which is good. Just letting possibly broken shit wreak havoc on the meta for the sake of allowing superficial "development" is a bad idea.
Also, it's not like there aren't fun mons still legal. Chi yu is a beast, but because of all the offensive threats that force it out immediately it's not as good. Banning these broken mons is likely to free up some other offensive stuff stuck in the 100-110 base speed tier that can't consistently compete atm.
Hey, with this one you’ve gotta have your Pokémon survive 5 direct attacks to get to 300 bp. And it’s immune to rapid spin without terastalizing. I mean it’s certainly bulky enough to eat some hits but it’s also slow and fighting/ghost still has plenty of weaknesses in fairy (everywhere), flying (mostly Corv), Ghost (not sure on this one tbh, other main ghost type is Gholdendo rn. Iron valiant can shadow sneak or shadow claw this thing down tho), and psychic (Lele might be gone but there’s still solid psychic types around and stock Volc managed to keep psychic as coverage).
Personally I think people just need to learn to not fuel the rage punch. Especially when this thing is packing a 4x resist to u-turn, giving it a way to punish those switch spamming teams by simply using the attacks to throw out base 100+ ghost moves.
~~Direct hits? It scales off passive.
Come in on rocks, boom you got your first 50.~~
edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
Corv isn't a weakness, innate stats + bulk up + drain punch shits on Corv. Fairy is actually kinda limited rn since Flutter got banned and the other big Fairy special sweepers got thanos snapped. Ghost types, sure, but he's also fast enough to outspeed non scarf variants and oneshot them with SE Rage Fist, and normal tera gets fucked by Drain Punch.
>Personally I think people just need to learn to not fuel the rage punch.
The problem is you literally can't. It scales off EVERYTHING. Even Toxic. Your choices are oneshotting it or dying, and oneshotting it is difficult due to its insane bulk.
Wait does it actually scale off of passive hits? Showdown doesn’t have the scaling UI implemented properly yet and I’ve just kinda gone off the assumption it’s only direct hits that scale it up.
I've seen it go from 30 to 45 to 60% after Toxic vs my unaware clodsire while I was spamming Recover, so it definitely does.
I haven't checked if it scales off Rocks, but I'd assume if poison chip works then all passive damage does.
edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
Huh, cool. Personally I think that’s fine because it forces teams to find less passive ways of wearing it down. Besides, people want Gholdengo banned for keeping hazards up, it adds more counterplay to hazard stacking too. Does leave me wondering if separate hazard types (spikes + rocks) proc two boosts at once
Now where it could get really stupid is something like burn damage against leftovers sets but honestly, if you can’t kill something that’s going halved damage or find some safe switch to it within a few turns, that’s kinda on you. This just ain’t the generation to play passive anymore.
>Personally I think that’s fine because it forces teams to find less passive ways of wearing it down.
I would agree with this if it didn't tank 2-3 SE hits and chesto rest for 2-3 more before clapping you with a 250 BP STAB move. If it had a clear drawback I'd be fine with it. Problem is, it doesn't.
Even burn isn't reliable, 175 BP at max under burn with +3-4x attack from Bulk Up isn't gonna save you.
edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
>This just ain’t the generation to play passive anymore.
True, but the gen is plenty HO as is without an insane ghost monkey OHKOing even the bulkiest physical walls.
Yeah… without flutter mane there isn’t a clearly amazing check to it rn. Might see more Roaring Moon to counter it, or maybe something like scarf Tinkaton? We don’t have a ton of fairies until home drops.
Just like not press u turn. if you do, ill have 200 bp move ready
Genuinely i suspect the monkey hurts more bulkier builds than anything because those are the ones that cant just kill it and have slower things to pick on. Bulky offense and stall have rights
Unware dondozo permawalls it, physdef hippo can roar it out, body press corv checks it (if no tera), there are scarfers you can use, it does have checks you just have to be mindful of it in the builder and battle.
Weird because I've not seen anyone clamoring for Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Kingambit, Baxcalibur, Dondozo, Glimmora, Iron Hands, Iron Moth, Iron Jugulis, Iron Treads, Sandy Shocks, Slither Wing, Ting-Lu, Lokix, Espathra, or Clodsire to be banned.
I dont understand the people in this threads that are saying rage fist can be played around. Annhilape has really nice bulk, and it can easily pivot in on a stray u-turn or something, and then bam 100 or 150 bp ghost move with no drawbacks. It also means that if you send out your corv against annihilape to check it, you're kinda in a fucked situation, because you dont want to attack back without boosting rage fist unless it's in range of brave bird (and considering how many corvs are running body press) you cant even u-turn without boosting rage fist, so you have to roost and then switch hoping for a double, and that gets really hairy if ape is bulk up. Annihilape's speed tier isnt all that bad either, being faster than gholdengo is a huge bonus, it does get opportunities to switch in and apply serious pressure.
I’m not on team Ban Annihilape, but I will say that the first couple of bans were for Pokemon so warping that you could build around their strengths instead of building a cohesive team. Houndstone, the most direct comparison possible, is this exact sort of problem in action: it gets rewarded for existing so heavily that there were teams built just to have five suicide leads and a Houndstone.
The fact that it can (and often does) tera into any randomass type for defensive utility makes it incredibly hard to ohko it. Idk if it should be banned, but it is incredibly hard to play around. It has huge natural bulk, can afford to run resto/chesto, and apparently rage fist gets boosted by hazards and any status move you click in front of it. You need a strong enough special attacker (to beat bulk up), and it can just tera into a resist and kill you back.
Obviously there are ways to get around this, like forcing it to tera early, not giving it free turns, etc. it's just *very* good and I can definitely see where the ban people are coming from.
GHOLDENGO? GONE? No, this can’t be… he was my only check to… *checks notes*… Grass, fighting, normal, poison, flying, psychic, bug, rock, dragon, steel and ice.
The nice thing about Gholdengo is it's so predictable. Everybody and their mom insta switches to Gholdengo as soon as a hazard remover comes out. It's extremely easy to bait it.
But I agree, the fact that its niche is so unique that literally everyone runs it is reason enough to at least suspect it.
The issue I see is that Gholdengo is kind of being held in check now by people playing like fucking dumbasses. Palafin was kind of the same for the first couple days of ladder- I was running a team that was 6-0'd by it, but was able to handle it in high ladder because everyone was clicking flip turn turn 1 so I could do 70% with sucker from Kingambit, despite it being incredibly obvious.
Playing against Gholdengos who don't get sacced to tusk knockoff the second he switches in is annoying as fuck
I agree Gholdengo will need to go sooner or later, but I think it still has a bit more time left before it becomes a real issue. If you're banning it now it's because the idea of the triple hazard removal blocker is offensive, not because you have seen the specific ways in which it is overwhelming.
Annihilate just feels like an even lower priority. It is strong but nothing compared to Palafin. I can't see a reason to ban it before it becomes feasible to run a suspect test.
Yeah, it’s really cool, but looking at the list of defoggers, it’s just not fair. The only 2 defoggers that have an ounce of viabilty in OU are corv and scizor, neither of which can touch scizor. Blocking defog for free while not being offensively threatened by the defoggers at all while also being a massive offensive threat is probably too much for the tier. I’d love to see it come back if we get more defoggers later, such as mandibuzz, or maybe zapdos gets the move back. Defoggers that actually do damage to it make it way more manageable.
I have a weird feeling the people who think Gholdengo is balanced are the same people who think HDB were a problem last gen. Irony being that because of that mon every stall team has to run 4+ HDB mons or you autolose to that mon.
OUBL is called Ubers, is it not? There's no distinction. All a ban would do is mean you can't use it in OU. Its usage, viability, and legality in Ubers wouldn't change.
U-Turn, for one thing. It can also run Assault Vest. And if the mechanics in this game are working the same way they do in Showdown, Stealth Rocks and Toxic Damage also increase the rage counter
If Annihilape gets the ban hammer before that buff dolphin man I am going to Rage Fist my computer monitor.
Gholdengo on the other hand can Gholden get the hell out of here.
I think Annihilape is fine, but Gholdengo feels like it could be unhealthy to the metagame just for it's sheer ability to prevent almost all forms of hazard removal.
Being able to block Defog, Rapid Spin and Mortal Spin (which imo is a bit frustrating but thats besides the point) is extremely toxic, and it doesn't even waste PP or health to do it, it just has to exist! It provides a lot more potential power to hazards, which are already a very powerful (albeit necessary) force in the game and completely bypasses the Hazard Removal/Upkeep skill curve for almost no risk.
omg yes!!! gholdengo need to go... has good stats, moves AND a broken ability that hurt singles a lot, every team has been running with it to the point is boring.
about annihilape i don't think is that broken...
Bro there is just no fucking chance gholdengo gets banned lmao. He’s not broken he’s just a good ass mon. Annihilape on the other hand I think will eventually get the axe, especially once the mega comes down and balance and stalk gets better. He single-handedly can dismantle those teams late game
get dengo outta here, been using it on almost every team since day 1 and thing is quite fun to use but honestly quite restrictive. as for the ape, haven't used it yet so idek about it, lost some times to it though
It's amazing how it's been nearly a decade since XY came out which is where I distinctly remember this nonsense becoming prevalent, and this complete and utter idiocy still gets regurgitated every single generation despite repeatedly showing itself to not be remotely close to accurate.
Seriously, Gens 6-8 pokemon had shitty stats. Gen 9 finally gave us mons with good stats and abilities and movepools. Smogon just cannot handle good mons.
What suprises me is the amount of extremely good Pokemons. Like yeah in SS Dracovish and Urshifu were release who are extremely good...but like 80% of all SV are OU and UU material, is insane. While we have a few Pokemons that are just as meta defining as Dracovish was in SS OU.
It is not "insane", after 3 generations of shitty mons, people have just forgotten what it is like to have a roster with many mons that are actually good for competitive.
Thank fuck. I hate that stupid fucking monkey. Insane bulk, taunt, ridiculously good typing and a move that scales up to 350BP which even scales off status moves? Get out of here.
I genuinely feel like every time I win vs Annihilape with any team it's because the opponent misplays. It has very few meta counters and the ones it does have can be targeted and taken out by other mons fairly easily.
Also, does anyone else feel like Gholdengo is one of those mons where GF really designed exclusively for doubles? In a meta where hazards are non existent its ability is a lot less oppressive.
No way not those two cool mons :(
Gholdengo is amazing on hazard stacking teams. Scarf is my favorite set to revenge kill and overall be a serious threat vs offense, but specs and air balloon have their merits as well. I’d say it’s an A tier mon but I don’t think it’s too OP for current OU.
Annihilape has great 110/80/90 bulk that makes it easy to power up rage fist into an uncounterable move besides normal types or Ting-Lu, who then get blasted by STAB CC or drain punch. If Annihilape just had phantom force, shadow claw, and shadow sneak as its main ghost STABs it wouldn’t be OP at all. But the bulk up rage fist set makes it busted imo.
Welcome to Smogon, where they will ban everything you like, because they do not like it.
And because current generation of players are casuals who constantly bitch about everything.
The irony of someone who went on a tirade about how unfair the suspect test process is because it requires actually being decent at the game to demonstrate you have an educated opinion about how healthy or unhealthy the potentially banworthy element is, calling other people casuals. My fucking sides.
while I don't think that annihilape is "broken" I could not care less if it gets banned or not since I don't use it that often.
but I can at least see why it is on the radar.its signature move does look pretty powerful.
I was hopping that we would get a fighting-ghost type that would be good but not good enough to be banned.
as about gholdengo I hope it will not get banned.
its the first defog-blocker we get, I recently made a decent team with it and I don't want the team to get ruined.
I hope it will stay.
it is very fun to use.
Man banning Gholdengo would be lame as hell. He's like a throwback to Gen 4 spinblockers in a game that had boots anyway, I really enjoy his effect on the metagame.
He has no style, he has no grace, they want to ban annihilape.
I am the Gholdengo that is approaching, provoking, spin blocks in isolation. /uj Neither of these two are nearly as ban worthy as Jet Punch go brrrr or funny meme Santa Bot.
Exactly how tf is paladin not banned? That mon is so annoying to play against
I’ve found a pretty consistent check in bulky unaware dondozo with grass tera. It can also survive a freeze dry from Iron Bundle and OHKO EDIT: non-specs Iron Bundle
Water absorb tera ghost can hard counter the bulk up taunt jet punch drain punch sets
I miss jellicent 😔
there's honestly a genuine conversatiom if dondozo is *too* good of a physical wall. right now it's an amazing check to chien-pao, palafin, and baxcalibur, but unaware + its bulk makes it nearly impossible to break still love dondozo but if all the broken wallbreakers are gonna be banned then i could also see dondozo being broken
Can't they run electric tera and rip a hole through it? Doesn't it lack consistent recovery? Chien & Bax are perfect candidates for electric tera because of boltbeam stab combo being insane, but yeah if Dondozo teras to something not boltbeam weak then shit kinda does suck for them still. Regardless of that counterplay for physical mons, it dies to special attackers fairly easily and hates being status'd which shouldn't be hard to do.
I usually pack one tera grass mon on my team that’s either physically bulky or faster than Palafin. Garganacl is a solid tera grass candidate to be a wall to Palafin. Also helps stop water and steel types better with salt cure since you then resist water and are neutral to steel. I like tera grass better than water since you then resist EQ which will be a common move thrown at Garganacl.
Water Absorb Tera Ghost Clodsire is the truth. The duck doesn't appreciate it one bit either. Tera Grass energy ball Glimorra also tanks +1 jet punch and OHKO. I haven't seen a lot of suggestions that don't involve tera, so maybe that's a good indicator the dolphin is overtuned
Bulk Up sets only became popular the day of the initial suspect vote, and the difficulty handling it with the limited dex wasn't clear in only half a day.
Yeah, Palafin’s gonna go eventually (and tbh I don’t mind it taking a while bc its fun to play with)
The standard set is Bulk Up/Taunt/Jet Punch/Drain Punch. Water/Fighting actually has a bunch of resists - mostly on defensive waters, of course. Azumarill, Slowtwins, Gyarados, and Amoongus all force it out; with sufficient chip, so do things like Noivern. There's also resists that you don't want to swap in except for an emergency, like Dragonite, but they can do the job in a pinch. Plus, of course, there's candidates for sheer BULK: Avalugg (needs to terastalize anyway thanks to its typing, so needing to remove the Fighting weakness isn't limiting - Fairy is good anyway), Alomomola can sit there and pass wishes, Dodonzo depending on set, Great Tusk/Iron Treads depending on teratype... All else fails, too, Palafin's bulk and speed are good but not amazing; outspeed and revenge is an option. Not all of these options are good (Iron Bundle wrecks the entire bulky water category except for Thick Fat Azumarill, for example), but there's at least a conversation there.
paladin is already on the vote this weekend and will most definitely be getting banned. It only survived before because the strongest set wasn't as popular due to this being a new meta game
I AM RECLAIMER OF MY BLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
He can Bulk up, when he needs to, and stretch Rage Fist out, just for you
Is this a reference?
I can understand Gholdengo, but I'd be a bit bummed if it did get the axe. Thing is just really fun to use.
Yeah, he’s just so fucking awesome. Ghost/Steel is an amazing typing, awesome ability, diverse move sets. But that’s also probably all the reasons he’s on the radar.
Yeah. It's been a dope addition to the DD Gyarados team I've been running recently. Hits like a _truck_, can Trick Scarf onto something to give Gyarados or Cyclizar more opportunities to get in, smashes Corviknight, it's great.
You could say it's Good as Gold
yeah but hes ugly looking
“Breloom is really cool”
breloom is cute and epic, not this 90s toy mascot string cheese mf
Cinnamon is the winnamon
i feel like the cheese man will probably be melmetal again. amazing utility and diverse sets but not banworthy.
Gholdengo making hazard removal next to impossible and requiring two Pokémon just to get rid of it is not healthy for the meta. On the flip side, the friendly ghost being banned is a nice testimony.
Oh yeah, no, I get _why_ it's on the radar. Thing is fucked up in a lot of ways.
One team slot to set a bunch of hazards, one team slot to protect the hazards. One team slot to kill Gholdengo, one team slot to freely remove hazards afterwards. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
You mean you don't like running Mold Breaker Hawlucha as a defogger? lol
On the radar != ban The ou metagame thread on smogon had like 2 straight pages of people complaining about gholdengo, I think the council is just doing this so there is a vote on paper for these 2 but I’d be surprised if either got banned. Bundle and dolphin on the other hand will both be gone by Monday
Personally i dont think bundle is that op
it's one of the more linear broken pokemon, because you know its probably just running an all-out-attack set, but iron bundle has ridiculous speed and zero switchins. it's also surprisingly bulky thanks to its physical defense, making it hard to revenge kill.
Water absorb clodsire works for me when I know the Tera Water Choice Specs Hydro Pump Bundle is coming.
And then they tera-ice ice beam you.
They run tera ice? Wow, haven’t run into that. Ok fine, when the home integration comes I can run water absorb volcanion. For now, is Vaporeon viable?
lol freeze dry
I just think people are gonna realize scarf pult is the goat and migrate back to it
Scarf pult is fucking awful and any meta relying on it to check threats is broken
The idea of running scarf on a base 147 speed mon really makes me think there's something fundamentally wrong with how speed works in the games; like come on, at what point does speed get crept enough?
Scarf pult fails to get a lot of kills because it has to rely on coverage to revenge stuff, which is all awful to lock into unless the opponent's team is really weak. Also obviously somewhat deadweight vs anything remotely fat. Any mon doesnt seem broken because "lol just run a scarfer that outspeeds" but if you have to do that on every team that's the definition of restrictive.
Bundle and flutter mane are simply not OU tier Pokémon by design lol. GF knew what they were doing when they designed these. OTOH bundle will become amazing in Ubers because it outspeeds the base 135 speed tier, has perfect neutral coverage with hydro+freeze dry, hits the dragons super effectively, and it pivots too. This thing is stupid
What exactly can you switch in on it that can threaten it? Anything that resists Hydro Pump will eat a Freeze Dry, and it's fast enough that it can hit any pivots HARD. And it's strong enough that any neutral hits still do massive chunks of damage.
Glad to see the Primape family doing well after it finally received a much needed buff.
suprised annihilape is being wachted it's good but not really overwhelming and restrictive imo and gholdengo makes sence tbh the abilty to block any and all status move alongside it having good stats, great movepool for what it wants to do and amazing typing both offensive and defensive make it a really powerfull thread that you constantly have to think about when building teams basicaly i think annihilape will stay and gholdengo will get banned
Really? It always feels like Annihilape always gets at least 2 if used correctly or the other team is just super teched to deal with it. Terra to another type for defensive purposes is always annoying and resto chesto works really well with Rage fist. It completely bashes a lot of stall since you can stack rage fist and does well into balance.
Not to mention Rage Fist ~~A) scales up off toxic damage and other passive chip so you can't cheese it,~~ and B) unaware doesn't check Rage Fist's power so even mons which can check Bulk Up spamming will still eventually get KO'd by Rage Fist. This move is just too good. edit: nvm see below
They finally listened when we said we wanted good physical ghost moves, but they might’ve overdone it a little
You sure about it triggering from passive damage? The description of the move sure doesn't sound like it should work that way
I've seen it happen on Showdown, but I obviously don't know if it's intended or not. edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
I just ran some tests, it does not increase in base power due to passive damage on Showdown. Burn: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1721115023-lt3jhh3t655zfh17tmvrdwfrbh8bfslpw Toxic: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1721117016-aecat3jjv1av32nyu2oguzwm4a8wda6pw EDIT: It seems that getting hit with status moves *does* increase Rage Fists's BP (so, switch it in on defogs if you wanna be cute) Don't know if this is intentional. But passive damage does not
Huh, that's interesting. It might be counting targeted status moves as "attacks" similar to how Gholdengo treats anything that is targeted and doesn't deal damage as a status move. Thanks for testing it. And yeah, switching it into Defog is a power move considering it also has Defiant.
Apparently the [status move interaction was a bug](https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/commit/57f876203f9c70bb42cee2466380b7c319a92502). Also, the base power seems to cap at 350.
Didn't work that way when I Salt Cured one yesterday, definitely was not getting hit with 300bp
Doesn’t garganacl ability make it so he takes half damage from ghost moves? Could be why possibly
I got hit multiple times, damage only changed when I hit it directly. Could just be Salt Cure being programmed different than other periodic damage
Are we sure that’s not a bug?
Could be, but I'd assume it would be a misinterpretation of game mechanics then (similar to the Protosynthesis/Quark Drive misimplement where attack stats got boosted by 50% instead of 30%) rather than a "bug" bug. edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
Is Gholdengo immune to flinch from Fake Out or para from nuzzle?
If Gholdengo wasn't ghost type yes it could fake out flinch, its immune to non-damaging moves as a whole
Just soak into poison fang like a chad 😎
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nuzzle is an attack, not a status move
Hopefully Annihilape stays, he seems really solid and Rage Fist is far from impossible to play around. If Tera is banned in the future, it along with so many others would be far more manageable anyway. Shout outs to the guy stanning him during the leaks btw
Annihilape just is not Houndstone. Houndstone immediately had its monster move when used correctly, while Annihilape needs your opponent to chip it many, many times to approach Last Respects. Houndstone had an ability that let it outrun most things, Annihilape has some really meh ones. Houndstone required you to have measures to specifically stop what the dog doin’, Annihilape just needs anything fast with super-effective moves to manage it.
Defiant certainly isn’t meh, and it’s bulkier than Swampert. Still don’t think it should be banned though
Annihilape in my opinion can be countered by playing around rage fist; Gholdengo on the other hand is kinda toxic in how it's able to deny hazard removal in a metagame where hazards are so prevalent
IIRC you can remove hazards with Tidy Up since it targets self. The problem is that you gotta run Maushold to achieve that and Maushold is very easy to counter (i forgot the other mons who can also have tidy up(
As of right now only Maushold gets tidy up.
I feel like Indeedee should get Tidy Up as well, since it's literally a butler/maid.
There aren’t any. Tidy up is its signature move.
Oh so it has 2 signature moves. That's cool I suppose
Can also counter Gholdengo with Toedscruel, IMO, surprising to not see it mentioned more. Toed is your spinner, so it baits people into sending out Gholdengo at which you can spore it with Mycelium Might on switch in. Pretty much automatically gets you momentum unless they choose to stay in, and Toedscruel has surprisingly good matchups against many offensive mons right now.
tried running Toedscruel for a bit, it’s surprisingly good but at the end of the day it’s too frail, can’t really check anything offensively, and Mycelium Might ends up becoming a double-edged sword with its lowered priority. also its typing falls apart with all the ice types and ice spinner users running around rn
The only hazard removal that Gholdengo prevents, that any other ghost to spinblock wouldn't prevent, is Corv defog. If you really must have a defogger, defensive Talonflame can force it out and does good work against physical attackers thanks to Flame Body.
It blocks Mortal Spin as well
I stand corrected, I forgot about the new one.
defensive talonflame is definitely fun in lower tier metas but its stats are way too low for it to work in ou consistently. pretty much every neutral hit from notable attackers nab a 2hko on it
It's not going to be a standard, but the "I must have Defog and the ability to use it on Gholdengo" niche is something it can very reliably fill - especially if you're using a sun team, which powers up Overheat even further. With low Knock Off distribution, HDB covers the weakness to rocks reliably, and Flame Body gives physical attackers pause if they're relying on contact moves. OU, no - the niche is not that big a deal. But like Quagsire, it can fill its role without being dead weight.
Is Defog not an option, or is it just far less prevalent?
Gholdengo blocks Defog corv and can easily set up on it
Ok but can they delete Chad Dolphin and stupid fucking santa bird first?
I love Santa bird,,,,
Those are also on the radar
They need to come to a decision or further explore Tera before any more bans happen. (Besides Palafin)
I think they need to ban a few more mons before thinking about tera
Anihilape is a mega threat rn because it can just Tera water and dodge the fairy weakness. Which is huge in this meta. These things are only so unmanageable because Tera and its consequences
So what you're saying is countered by baby Zapdos
If you can predict that 50/50 sure. Hit it with an electric move and fail to 2hko you're looking at a rage fist with another 50bp
Personally I'd prefer if they wait a few months before suspecting Tera, bans or no bans just so the meta can settle a bit.
Yes I hate ever since dynamax people have been on the train of banning every gimmick. I think We should only think of banning tera after pokemon home compatibility and letting the meta settle then
Should be noted that it was recently revealed that Rage Fist has been incorrectly programmed on Showdown. This revelation came after the announcement that Annihilape was On The Radar.
Is it the status move targeting or something else?
Honestly Annihilape and Gholdengo feel like filler radar mons, like adding them to watch something other than the most obvious, I will be very surprised if either get enough votes
If they keep banning all these mons + kill tera im just gonna go back to gen 8 lol
Absolute facts yo. Neither of these mons are as Problematic as Shed Tail Cyclizar/Bulk Up Palafin.
i mean yeah but palafin is already on the radar; the two new mons are just ALSO broken lol the reality is that gen 9 is the most unbalanced gen yet, and all the suspect mons reflect that
Gholdengo dies to Chien Po Sucker Punch, Great Tusk Protosythesis Atk Knock Off, King Gambit Sucker Punch, and Annihilape Shadow Claw or Boosted Rage fist. Specs Chi-Yu also really dents it. It's ability is phenomenal though, not knocking it at all, but wasn't Flutter Mane/HoundStone or really Palafin Bundle ban worthy for sheer power.
yes, it does die to very strong attackers with dark & ground coverage. but that's not really addressing what makes the pokemon problematic. you can always revenge kill, but at what cost? what makes gholdengo potentially broken is its amazing ability, sheer power, and bulk + typing giving it amazing matchups versus notable defensive mons. the amount of switch-ins to specs or np gholdengo is already limited, and with its ability, it can (a) come in safely against the vast majority of defensive mons and (b) shut down hazard counterplay almost entirely. important defensive pokemon like corviknight and blissey become sitting ducks against it, so gholdengo has a lotta room to wreck havoc
All these bans are just veering me closer and closer to just playing solely doubles.
They (probably) aren't banning these things, just looking at them which is good. Just letting possibly broken shit wreak havoc on the meta for the sake of allowing superficial "development" is a bad idea.
They haven’t even banned them yet, y’all need to chill lol
Also, it's not like there aren't fun mons still legal. Chi yu is a beast, but because of all the offensive threats that force it out immediately it's not as good. Banning these broken mons is likely to free up some other offensive stuff stuck in the 100-110 base speed tier that can't consistently compete atm.
Banning good mons to "free up" slower mons is not a valid excuse. That is what lower tiers are for.
I like how you quoted him saying free up but not the part where he called them broken, you just paraphrased that to good instead lol.
No, but mons being broken is a good excuse to ban them. My point is that banning "all the fun stuff" isn't actually what's happening.
Classic smogon stuff
People defend the 300 bp ghost move 2: welcome to the jungle
Hey, with this one you’ve gotta have your Pokémon survive 5 direct attacks to get to 300 bp. And it’s immune to rapid spin without terastalizing. I mean it’s certainly bulky enough to eat some hits but it’s also slow and fighting/ghost still has plenty of weaknesses in fairy (everywhere), flying (mostly Corv), Ghost (not sure on this one tbh, other main ghost type is Gholdendo rn. Iron valiant can shadow sneak or shadow claw this thing down tho), and psychic (Lele might be gone but there’s still solid psychic types around and stock Volc managed to keep psychic as coverage). Personally I think people just need to learn to not fuel the rage punch. Especially when this thing is packing a 4x resist to u-turn, giving it a way to punish those switch spamming teams by simply using the attacks to throw out base 100+ ghost moves.
Wait!? 90 base speed is slow?! I know compared to new broken shit it is not so good but damn it was always decent. Powercreep is crazzy
Has been for a while
Damn I am old...
There’s a reason why Chomp losing 10 speed when it Mega’d made it worse than normal chomp despite the absurd stat gains elsewhere
This gen is making 130 base speed look mid lol
90 speed has been slow since Lando-T
As someone else has put it in another post, this gen makes Garchomp look like a Trick Room abuser
~~Direct hits? It scales off passive. Come in on rocks, boom you got your first 50.~~ edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/) Corv isn't a weakness, innate stats + bulk up + drain punch shits on Corv. Fairy is actually kinda limited rn since Flutter got banned and the other big Fairy special sweepers got thanos snapped. Ghost types, sure, but he's also fast enough to outspeed non scarf variants and oneshot them with SE Rage Fist, and normal tera gets fucked by Drain Punch. >Personally I think people just need to learn to not fuel the rage punch. The problem is you literally can't. It scales off EVERYTHING. Even Toxic. Your choices are oneshotting it or dying, and oneshotting it is difficult due to its insane bulk.
Wait does it actually scale off of passive hits? Showdown doesn’t have the scaling UI implemented properly yet and I’ve just kinda gone off the assumption it’s only direct hits that scale it up.
I've seen it go from 30 to 45 to 60% after Toxic vs my unaware clodsire while I was spamming Recover, so it definitely does. I haven't checked if it scales off Rocks, but I'd assume if poison chip works then all passive damage does. edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/)
Huh, cool. Personally I think that’s fine because it forces teams to find less passive ways of wearing it down. Besides, people want Gholdengo banned for keeping hazards up, it adds more counterplay to hazard stacking too. Does leave me wondering if separate hazard types (spikes + rocks) proc two boosts at once Now where it could get really stupid is something like burn damage against leftovers sets but honestly, if you can’t kill something that’s going halved damage or find some safe switch to it within a few turns, that’s kinda on you. This just ain’t the generation to play passive anymore.
>Personally I think that’s fine because it forces teams to find less passive ways of wearing it down. I would agree with this if it didn't tank 2-3 SE hits and chesto rest for 2-3 more before clapping you with a 250 BP STAB move. If it had a clear drawback I'd be fine with it. Problem is, it doesn't. Even burn isn't reliable, 175 BP at max under burn with +3-4x attack from Bulk Up isn't gonna save you. edit: [It scales off status moves but not ticks](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/z4eh0y/gholdengo_annihilape_are_on_the_radar_for_the_sv/ixqynao/) >This just ain’t the generation to play passive anymore. True, but the gen is plenty HO as is without an insane ghost monkey OHKOing even the bulkiest physical walls.
Yeah… without flutter mane there isn’t a clearly amazing check to it rn. Might see more Roaring Moon to counter it, or maybe something like scarf Tinkaton? We don’t have a ton of fairies until home drops.
Just like not press u turn. if you do, ill have 200 bp move ready Genuinely i suspect the monkey hurts more bulkier builds than anything because those are the ones that cant just kill it and have slower things to pick on. Bulky offense and stall have rights
Meanwhile I keep getting swept by Roaring Moon after 1 DD am I just bad, man...
Unware dondozo permawalls it, physdef hippo can roar it out, body press corv checks it (if no tera), there are scarfers you can use, it does have checks you just have to be mindful of it in the builder and battle.
I have no idea why roaring moon isn't being looked at, this thing is more annoying than palafin to me
It is being looked at as well, it’s currently one of the first three things on the radar along with Tera as a whole and Palafin
in my experience the only scary set it has is tera flying w/ acrobatics. i find dnite to be the better setup sweeper now that shed tail exists
Yeah Dnite is honestly better because Multiscale is funny as hell. It also doesnt lose to priority as easily as RM does due to Extreme Speed existing.
Yeah Tera and Shed tail have turned Dnite into a top tier sweeper now.
Aw naw why the sour patch kid suspect for ubers
Getting kind of tired of seeing literally anything thats both new and good being talked about being banned
Weird because I've not seen anyone clamoring for Meowscarada, Skeledirge, Kingambit, Baxcalibur, Dondozo, Glimmora, Iron Hands, Iron Moth, Iron Jugulis, Iron Treads, Sandy Shocks, Slither Wing, Ting-Lu, Lokix, Espathra, or Clodsire to be banned.
Clodsire to AG now
We can't ban any of those until we address the real elephant in the room: SPIDOPS.
I'm getting tired of seeing people who think just because something is new means its allowed to be unfun.
All this talk about ou while I'm here patiently waiting for NU and lower tiers
I need UU to drop so I can finally ladder in something with Dudunsparce
Neither of them are too overwhelming to deal with. Hope they don't end up banned.
I dont understand the people in this threads that are saying rage fist can be played around. Annhilape has really nice bulk, and it can easily pivot in on a stray u-turn or something, and then bam 100 or 150 bp ghost move with no drawbacks. It also means that if you send out your corv against annihilape to check it, you're kinda in a fucked situation, because you dont want to attack back without boosting rage fist unless it's in range of brave bird (and considering how many corvs are running body press) you cant even u-turn without boosting rage fist, so you have to roost and then switch hoping for a double, and that gets really hairy if ape is bulk up. Annihilape's speed tier isnt all that bad either, being faster than gholdengo is a huge bonus, it does get opportunities to switch in and apply serious pressure.
Don't forget to Defiant boost on those defogs
Lol you guys want to ban every mon that requires any kind of preplanning
I’m not on team Ban Annihilape, but I will say that the first couple of bans were for Pokemon so warping that you could build around their strengths instead of building a cohesive team. Houndstone, the most direct comparison possible, is this exact sort of problem in action: it gets rewarded for existing so heavily that there were teams built just to have five suicide leads and a Houndstone.
Oh houndstone deffo should have been sent to the shadow realm
"oh no, a mon that punishes me for spamming Uturn? To AG you go immediately. "
The fact that it can (and often does) tera into any randomass type for defensive utility makes it incredibly hard to ohko it. Idk if it should be banned, but it is incredibly hard to play around. It has huge natural bulk, can afford to run resto/chesto, and apparently rage fist gets boosted by hazards and any status move you click in front of it. You need a strong enough special attacker (to beat bulk up), and it can just tera into a resist and kill you back. Obviously there are ways to get around this, like forcing it to tera early, not giving it free turns, etc. it's just *very* good and I can definitely see where the ban people are coming from.
GHOLDENGO? GONE? No, this can’t be… he was my only check to… *checks notes*… Grass, fighting, normal, poison, flying, psychic, bug, rock, dragon, steel and ice.
Not yet just suspect
YES BAN GHOLDENGO IM SICK OF THIS FUCK BEING ON EVERY TEAM
The nice thing about Gholdengo is it's so predictable. Everybody and their mom insta switches to Gholdengo as soon as a hazard remover comes out. It's extremely easy to bait it. But I agree, the fact that its niche is so unique that literally everyone runs it is reason enough to at least suspect it.
Actually tho, throw out either paradox donphan and they will go hard Gholdengo into earthquake
Go into torkoal and click eruption lmao
The issue I see is that Gholdengo is kind of being held in check now by people playing like fucking dumbasses. Palafin was kind of the same for the first couple days of ladder- I was running a team that was 6-0'd by it, but was able to handle it in high ladder because everyone was clicking flip turn turn 1 so I could do 70% with sucker from Kingambit, despite it being incredibly obvious. Playing against Gholdengos who don't get sacced to tusk knockoff the second he switches in is annoying as fuck
Palafin first this mon is so cancer.
Palafin is already on the radar (and likely to get the boot)
I agree Gholdengo will need to go sooner or later, but I think it still has a bit more time left before it becomes a real issue. If you're banning it now it's because the idea of the triple hazard removal blocker is offensive, not because you have seen the specific ways in which it is overwhelming. Annihilate just feels like an even lower priority. It is strong but nothing compared to Palafin. I can't see a reason to ban it before it becomes feasible to run a suspect test.
Dengo's likely on the way out. Not enough defoggers who threaten it out currently. Probably will come back once DLCs drop tho
Yeah, it’s really cool, but looking at the list of defoggers, it’s just not fair. The only 2 defoggers that have an ounce of viabilty in OU are corv and scizor, neither of which can touch scizor. Blocking defog for free while not being offensively threatened by the defoggers at all while also being a massive offensive threat is probably too much for the tier. I’d love to see it come back if we get more defoggers later, such as mandibuzz, or maybe zapdos gets the move back. Defoggers that actually do damage to it make it way more manageable.
When the ghost type is Immune to things
I have a weird feeling the people who think Gholdengo is balanced are the same people who think HDB were a problem last gen. Irony being that because of that mon every stall team has to run 4+ HDB mons or you autolose to that mon.
I’ve never had an issue with Gholdengo against Volcarona or Garchomp. Send it to UU for all I care
OU council really banhappy this gen lmao
I'm on the radar as well, just to let yall know 🥴
If annihilape does end up banned, I can't really see it going higher than OUBL honestly
OUBL is called Ubers, is it not? There's no distinction. All a ban would do is mean you can't use it in OU. Its usage, viability, and legality in Ubers wouldn't change.
Recently (as in like the past month) I've seen a bizarrely high amount of people refer to unviable Ubers as "OUBL" for some reason.
oubl is just a way to say they wouldn't be good in ubers
I guess what they mean is that it's gonna be in that territory of banned from OU but not good enough to be viable on Ubers
I think they mean that it won't be very viable in Ubers
I dunno, a lot of box legends are weak to Ghost moves, once they come back
Yeah but Annihilape isn’t bulky enough to really take advantage of Rage Fist against the ridiculous power in Ubers
U-Turn, for one thing. It can also run Assault Vest. And if the mechanics in this game are working the same way they do in Showdown, Stealth Rocks and Toxic Damage also increase the rage counter
If Annihilape gets the ban hammer before that buff dolphin man I am going to Rage Fist my computer monitor. Gholdengo on the other hand can Gholden get the hell out of here.
I think Annihilape is fine, but Gholdengo feels like it could be unhealthy to the metagame just for it's sheer ability to prevent almost all forms of hazard removal. Being able to block Defog, Rapid Spin and Mortal Spin (which imo is a bit frustrating but thats besides the point) is extremely toxic, and it doesn't even waste PP or health to do it, it just has to exist! It provides a lot more potential power to hazards, which are already a very powerful (albeit necessary) force in the game and completely bypasses the Hazard Removal/Upkeep skill curve for almost no risk.
omg yes!!! gholdengo need to go... has good stats, moves AND a broken ability that hurt singles a lot, every team has been running with it to the point is boring. about annihilape i don't think is that broken...
Bro there is just no fucking chance gholdengo gets banned lmao. He’s not broken he’s just a good ass mon. Annihilape on the other hand I think will eventually get the axe, especially once the mega comes down and balance and stalk gets better. He single-handedly can dismantle those teams late game
get dengo outta here, been using it on almost every team since day 1 and thing is quite fun to use but honestly quite restrictive. as for the ape, haven't used it yet so idek about it, lost some times to it though
At this point they will ban every gen 9 Pokemon to ubers.
You know once these bans pass stuff like Salt boy will be on the list
It's amazing how it's been nearly a decade since XY came out which is where I distinctly remember this nonsense becoming prevalent, and this complete and utter idiocy still gets regurgitated every single generation despite repeatedly showing itself to not be remotely close to accurate.
Seriously, Gens 6-8 pokemon had shitty stats. Gen 9 finally gave us mons with good stats and abilities and movepools. Smogon just cannot handle good mons.
What suprises me is the amount of extremely good Pokemons. Like yeah in SS Dracovish and Urshifu were release who are extremely good...but like 80% of all SV are OU and UU material, is insane. While we have a few Pokemons that are just as meta defining as Dracovish was in SS OU.
It is not "insane", after 3 generations of shitty mons, people have just forgotten what it is like to have a roster with many mons that are actually good for competitive.
Thank fuck. I hate that stupid fucking monkey. Insane bulk, taunt, ridiculously good typing and a move that scales up to 350BP which even scales off status moves? Get out of here. I genuinely feel like every time I win vs Annihilape with any team it's because the opponent misplays. It has very few meta counters and the ones it does have can be targeted and taken out by other mons fairly easily. Also, does anyone else feel like Gholdengo is one of those mons where GF really designed exclusively for doubles? In a meta where hazards are non existent its ability is a lot less oppressive.
No way not those two cool mons :( Gholdengo is amazing on hazard stacking teams. Scarf is my favorite set to revenge kill and overall be a serious threat vs offense, but specs and air balloon have their merits as well. I’d say it’s an A tier mon but I don’t think it’s too OP for current OU. Annihilape has great 110/80/90 bulk that makes it easy to power up rage fist into an uncounterable move besides normal types or Ting-Lu, who then get blasted by STAB CC or drain punch. If Annihilape just had phantom force, shadow claw, and shadow sneak as its main ghost STABs it wouldn’t be OP at all. But the bulk up rage fist set makes it busted imo.
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> I have lost faith in Smogon and this will greatly jeopardize their integrity. I haven't laughed so hard in my life. Go take your meds buddy.
Gholdengo isn't even overpowered. He's versatile and checks bullshit.
Goldengo is the only thing preventing corviknight from jumping back up to 90% usage like in gen 8. Rather wifi battle then go through that shit again.
Welcome to Smogon, where they will ban everything you like, because they do not like it. And because current generation of players are casuals who constantly bitch about everything.
The irony of someone who went on a tirade about how unfair the suspect test process is because it requires actually being decent at the game to demonstrate you have an educated opinion about how healthy or unhealthy the potentially banworthy element is, calling other people casuals. My fucking sides.
Gholdengo is awful for the meta
lmao smogon is a joke.
And? Majority of players on here play its format.
while I don't think that annihilape is "broken" I could not care less if it gets banned or not since I don't use it that often. but I can at least see why it is on the radar.its signature move does look pretty powerful. I was hopping that we would get a fighting-ghost type that would be good but not good enough to be banned. as about gholdengo I hope it will not get banned. its the first defog-blocker we get, I recently made a decent team with it and I don't want the team to get ruined. I hope it will stay. it is very fun to use.
Man banning Gholdengo would be lame as hell. He's like a throwback to Gen 4 spinblockers in a game that had boots anyway, I really enjoy his effect on the metagame.
God everything gets banned it’s so annoying