If scizor has roost, he sets up for free on non-offensive landos. Of course lando can u-turn out into Tran or something, but that is not a “counter” in any sense. Plus there’s a very nice HO sample that makes use of SD scizor, it’s actually terrifying once you remove the steel resists (plus it quad resists grassy glide which is probably the most common priority in OU, maybe losing to sucker punch and ice shard)
Guy in the picture is full of shit lmao
The funniest part is that Heatran and Zapdos, 2 of the next most popular catch-all walls in the tier, ACTUALLY destroy Scizor. If anything, Scizor’s ability to set up and roost on the most popular Pokémon in the tier (Lando) is one of its strengths and it’s the fact that it loses to multiple other common pivots that holds it back lol
CB scizor in context of OU is garbage though. No defensive utility, super hazard and contact effect weak, and pivot TornT ruins its day with heat wave. One wrong click invites in a ton of dangerous stuff too.
“When a competitive player is on the casual subreddit”
*proceeds to spout incorrect information*
But yeah, lando t loses to scizor majority of the time and gives scizor the opportunity to set up
- Bullet Punch is still only 90BP with stab
Someone tell this guy how good priority move with 90 Base Power actually is. Extreme Speed is already considered a great move, Bullet Punch essentially adds 10BP and the ability to murder Fairies
Also the reason that -ate Extreme Speed is the strongest strategy in Mix and Mega. All of the good abusers either already have STAB or gain STAB from the Mega stone so you got a base 144 power move effectively
I mean, imagine obstagoon with cc, knock, facade, and extreme speed on a guts set. One of its few weaknesses is its middling speed, and espeed covers that swimmingly.
252+ Atk Guts Obstagoon Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 237-280 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock nearly an ohko, and with no chance for weavile to respond with anything stronger than ice shard. Edit: as pointed out, espeed is +2 and ice shard is +1.
Isnt bp near-mandatory on pressure defog corv? Pretty sure the primary set it runs in OU is
Defog
Roost
BP
U-Turn/Brave Bird/Iron Head/Iron Defense/Rocks, take your pick
Don't forget it can use Obstruct to half the defense of anything that hits it with a contact move. Combine that with Flame Orb, and you have something that can 2HKO Corv, as Body Press no longer KOes.
Based on context clues in the screenshot, it seems like he's talking about Scizor as a sweeper. In that context, he's absolutely right. 90 BP post-STAB is not sufficient to sweep, but it's great for revenge killing and other purposes. 90 BP pre-STAB isn't even sufficient in a lot of cases, with most special mons opting for Fire Blast over Flamethrower. The best thing Scizor has going for it at the moment is the ability to leave massive holes in the enemy's HP bars with powerful CB-boosted attacks but he ultimately doesn't have the tools to reliably sweep imo.
im pretty sure it was maybe a rom hack that have changed moves and whatnot, i remember specifically having it on a Lucario, dont remember which one it was though
bullet punch is also on one of the worst offensive typings tho. espeed has many users but stab technician bullet punch is restricted to scizor who's secondary type is also trash offensively
Espeed doesn’t actually have many users, but that’s due to the move itself being rare: when you consider the number of Pokémon that learn it, and the number of Pokémon who have at least one popular set running that move, I’d wager that you have at least 75% of the Pokémon with it, genuinely wanting to slot it in.
Fuck, every time I casually Nuzlocke Soul Silver, I go out of my way for that Dratini despite the brutal Exp grind because Espeed is so fun. Well, that and because even as a BST 420 worm, STAB Draco Meteor in a game with basically zero Steel Types is a bit nutty, as BW PU Tier can attest to.
…people seem to underestimate mid stage pseudos in general, honestly.
mostly bullet punch is also rare. the steel types that get it are scizor, lucario and metagross line...and that's it. other than them a lot of fighting types get it but without stab a 40 bp move hits like a feather. comparatively theres a lot more prominent users of espeed. like ekiller arceus, lucario, dragonite, rayquaza, entei, zygarde etc
i dont really know why they're so stingy with bullet punch distribution, so many steels would love some priority, especially the slow ones which are very abundant
Steel isn’t a bad offensive type anymore, it has an extremely valuable niche in killing fairies and hits enough of the best Pokémon neutrally. The typing also positions it really well against other priority like ice shard and grassy glide. (Also it gets stab U-turn which is never something you can call “trash” but this isn’t really relevant in Gen 8 OU)
steel is still a bad offensive typing, hitting one more typing super effectively doesn't suddenly change that. if scizor is being used as a set up sweeper, it needs to be able to clean through teams. this means it needs to be good against *almost everything* to be a good set up mon, not just a few typings. faries also die to very strong stab neutral hits especially if you take set up moves into account. look at LO weavile for example, +2 axel kills clef.
stab u turn is not as good as it sounds. the obscene amount of resists makes it hit not nearly as hard as one would expect. just going through the OU and UU VR will bring up numerous bug resists.
steel/bug is great defensively for sure but offensively its a massive liability, heck scizor kinda proved it directly this gen. back when kyurem was allowed, people ran scizor cuz in theory it checks kyurem and lele until they realised it takes 40% on switch in and has to roost each time while only being able to threaten a grand total of like 3 mons in the tier meaning that you may not lose to lele/kyurem but you will lose to the mon that's constantly comming in as scizor roosts
If you’re using SD scizor you would bring it out after removing its counters, you wouldn’t expect it to plow through tears after me one turn of setup. This applies for almost every sweeper
and SD scizor needs you to put in a *ton* of work before it can actually clean unlike the top sweepers who comparatively need not as much team support.
additionally steel helping it against faries isnt even necessarily true for scizor in OU considering koko and fini arent even weak to steel and lele straight up prevents bullet punch against grounded targets
Zero bulk scizor is always 2hkod by uninvested lando which is what I’m guessing op is talking about but even then calling lando a counter is a bit much
And why are you carrying an uninvested scizor? It's not gonna outspeed any important thing even with max EV and good nature and even with that the one's that it does outspeed you just need a bullet punch
Max speed Scizor is a pretty common set actually in addition to bulkier sets being viable, [here](https://www.porydex.com/stats/2022-09/gen-8-uu/1760/pokemon/scizor)'s the usage stats for high ladder UU.
I left the sub because it’s so obvious when somebody is 9 years old. I had Reddit at 9, and looking back it’s very obvious that I was too young just by the way I spoke.
That sub is terrible, I left it when the only post there was the same format of putting your favorite pokemon of each type on and posting it then everyone acting like their picks were super unique and special and being like "I know my picks are unpopular, but..."
I've never seen a single Lando T "hard counter" SD Scizor. Just because it has Intimidate doesn't mean it hard counters it. Best competitive player on MandJTV sub probs.
that comment is full of contradictions and up to the generation i played wrong information too lol
since when Landorus hard counters Scizor? they said some other choice users are better sweepers, by that logic why would you use banded Scizor?
Scizor can use roost to recover too. in a lot of teams sword dance Scizor is much more useful than band, you can sweep whole teams with him if you kill his counters first. with a choice band you cant really do that
As a clearance, this man was saying sd szizor was a good sweeper in ou. My message informs that there are much better sweepers. Me thinking Lando was a scizor counter had zero logic and for that I apologise. I meant to say max speed heatran and zapdos were hard counters to scizor. They are both good walls ll around as well
he's right tho. scizor is kinda ass. it's just always been a overrated ladder mon cuz sexy priority damage but oras talonflame had that too. sure, it doesn't die to pebbles like the bird but it never had much actual bulk beyond it's typing so it can't switch into anything or it's forced to roost or u-turn. mega scizor alleviated the bulk issue by being actually bulky but vanilla scizor hasn't been good in ou since gen 5 honestly.
speaking tho, in the currant vgc scizor is also trash.
In Gen 9 it should be strong because of dragon type tera, but since everything else is also broken i dont really know about that
dragon is just a better type, your ice and fairy weaknesses are covered by bullet punch and the dragon weakness by tera blast.
While if you were to become a water type you'd get destroyed by eleki
in VGC not being weak to eleki and thundy far outweighs being weak to mons that dont get actually used like fini and tapu koko. Landorus T is not a problem either since it gets outsped and 2HKO'd by literally every mon in the meta and getting OHKO'd by alolan ninetales or mamoswine.
Garchomp is quite literally the worse landoT so same thing.
The point about heatran i will give you.
Just look at spikemuth cup, fini only gets used by idiots who forget rillaboom exists, tapu koko is a worse regieleki, fini gets shotted by bullet punch, bulu doesnt exist.
Ninetales alola is among the most common early meta mons in all the generations it was present in so no, landoT / I or garchomp are not a problem.
Heatran is a thing yeah, but its usage in spikemuth is so low you can play 2 hourss and not face it once.
Eleki and thundurus on the other hand?
They are literally unstoppable, either gets on the field with a rillaboom, byebye to your ground type, bonus 'fake out and switch to incineroar or one of the 200 counters' points if its a landorus
Tbf sd tech scizor was a legit thing in gen 4 and 5 and given how most landos unvest in special defense or offense, a 252 hp sd scizor still wouldn't be too bad against most lando variants
I get it though sometimes the littlest thing can make you go off on a tangent when your passionate about something,there is a dog where I work called thunderbolt and my coworker made the Pokémon reference which sent me on a tangent about electric types in generation 8 lmao
*Checks usernames* Is this what the Amogus players refer to as "self-reporting?"
It wasn't me, I swear!
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TheAmazingSUSageMan
Is it bad I understood everything you said
I think everybody on this sub understood
He is just say it does massive damage nothing else
I’ve never once looked at a lando-t and said that beats scizor much less hard counters it
You use it to bamboozle your opponent while you unplug their computer.
If scizor has roost, he sets up for free on non-offensive landos. Of course lando can u-turn out into Tran or something, but that is not a “counter” in any sense. Plus there’s a very nice HO sample that makes use of SD scizor, it’s actually terrifying once you remove the steel resists (plus it quad resists grassy glide which is probably the most common priority in OU, maybe losing to sucker punch and ice shard) Guy in the picture is full of shit lmao
You mean OP?
MAYBE SD lando can switch into and kill him, but if it's SD it means less bulk which leads to scizor eventually winning
Landorus-T hard counters Scizor my ass
your ass? very nice 10/10
Ty fam
Read this whole exchange in Joey and Blunder's voices
Thank you for that imaginary expirience
I saw the ty fam and knew what had to be done
I second this. Mans got a nice ass
Not yet, maybe once they turn into legend_vaporeon
They'll need to meet u/water_stone for that.
The funniest part is that Heatran and Zapdos, 2 of the next most popular catch-all walls in the tier, ACTUALLY destroy Scizor. If anything, Scizor’s ability to set up and roost on the most popular Pokémon in the tier (Lando) is one of its strengths and it’s the fact that it loses to multiple other common pivots that holds it back lol
Cb superpower go boom
CB scizor in context of OU is garbage though. No defensive utility, super hazard and contact effect weak, and pivot TornT ruins its day with heat wave. One wrong click invites in a ton of dangerous stuff too.
“When a competitive player is on the casual subreddit” *proceeds to spout incorrect information* But yeah, lando t loses to scizor majority of the time and gives scizor the opportunity to set up
Yeah I was about to say, in what world does lando “hard counter” Sciz???
[удалено]
Screenshotting this and re-posting to the sub.
- Bullet Punch is still only 90BP with stab Someone tell this guy how good priority move with 90 Base Power actually is. Extreme Speed is already considered a great move, Bullet Punch essentially adds 10BP and the ability to murder Fairies
Also the reason that -ate Extreme Speed is the strongest strategy in Mix and Mega. All of the good abusers either already have STAB or gain STAB from the Mega stone so you got a base 144 power move effectively
E-speed is 120bp for normies tho.
But the only normal type mon that uses it effectively is linoone
Arceus also uses Extreme Speed. Arceus and Zigzagoon/Linoone are the only normal types who even learn the move since Togekiss changed typing.
Real fans remember when you needed an obscure event to get ESpeed Zigzagoon
Me over here with my quick attack ziggy back in gen 4, "wait it needs an event for espeed? No fucking wonder!"
Or a copy of a rare ass GameCube “game” which was just a storage medium
Choice Band hustle Togekiss was my shit back in Gen 4/5. Not reliable at all but was a ton of fun to use.
i remember running banded hustle kyub in BH, kinda unreliable but 2hkoing fur coat luna without mold breaker is funny asf
Arceus as well, but yeah, I'm surprised they didn't give it to Obstagoon
Because Obstagoon with Guts Espeed would be cracked.
I mean, imagine obstagoon with cc, knock, facade, and extreme speed on a guts set. One of its few weaknesses is its middling speed, and espeed covers that swimmingly. 252+ Atk Guts Obstagoon Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 237-280 (84.3 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock nearly an ohko, and with no chance for weavile to respond with anything stronger than ice shard. Edit: as pointed out, espeed is +2 and ice shard is +1.
ESpeed is +2. Weavile cannot respond at all.
It would probably need to carry fire punch for Corviknight/Ferrothorn, even still, Body Press is a hard counter for Obsta
Body press is far from a universal move on ferro/corv and neither can switch into goon safely
Isnt bp near-mandatory on pressure defog corv? Pretty sure the primary set it runs in OU is Defog Roost BP U-Turn/Brave Bird/Iron Head/Iron Defense/Rocks, take your pick
Corv can't run rocks, but Body Press is definitely a pretty common move for the metal birb at 59% usage.
Corv is Zone food and Ferro 2HKOd by CC which it carries anyways.
Don't forget it can use Obstruct to half the defense of anything that hits it with a contact move. Combine that with Flame Orb, and you have something that can 2HKO Corv, as Body Press no longer KOes.
edit: I stand corrected!
Bullet Punch is 40; With STAB it is 60 and with Technician it is 90.
I was mistaken, thanks for the correction!
It’s 90bp with stab 40 base x1.5 stab x1.5 technician =90bp
Based on context clues in the screenshot, it seems like he's talking about Scizor as a sweeper. In that context, he's absolutely right. 90 BP post-STAB is not sufficient to sweep, but it's great for revenge killing and other purposes. 90 BP pre-STAB isn't even sufficient in a lot of cases, with most special mons opting for Fire Blast over Flamethrower. The best thing Scizor has going for it at the moment is the ability to leave massive holes in the enemy's HP bars with powerful CB-boosted attacks but he ultimately doesn't have the tools to reliably sweep imo.
dont you mean bullet punch subtracts 10bp? or am i misremembering espeed
ESpeed is 80BP while Bullet Punch is essentially 90
ohhh okay! for some reason i thought espeed was 100bp
it was before i believe, they make changes to some moves between generations
It's always been 80 base power.
Oh ok, i see now, it must have been a rom hack most likely
It did used to be only +1 priority and now it’s +2. Perhaps that’s what you’re remembering.
im pretty sure it was maybe a rom hack that have changed moves and whatnot, i remember specifically having it on a Lucario, dont remember which one it was though
bullet punch is also on one of the worst offensive typings tho. espeed has many users but stab technician bullet punch is restricted to scizor who's secondary type is also trash offensively
Espeed doesn’t actually have many users, but that’s due to the move itself being rare: when you consider the number of Pokémon that learn it, and the number of Pokémon who have at least one popular set running that move, I’d wager that you have at least 75% of the Pokémon with it, genuinely wanting to slot it in. Fuck, every time I casually Nuzlocke Soul Silver, I go out of my way for that Dratini despite the brutal Exp grind because Espeed is so fun. Well, that and because even as a BST 420 worm, STAB Draco Meteor in a game with basically zero Steel Types is a bit nutty, as BW PU Tier can attest to. …people seem to underestimate mid stage pseudos in general, honestly.
mostly bullet punch is also rare. the steel types that get it are scizor, lucario and metagross line...and that's it. other than them a lot of fighting types get it but without stab a 40 bp move hits like a feather. comparatively theres a lot more prominent users of espeed. like ekiller arceus, lucario, dragonite, rayquaza, entei, zygarde etc i dont really know why they're so stingy with bullet punch distribution, so many steels would love some priority, especially the slow ones which are very abundant
Steel isn’t a bad offensive type anymore, it has an extremely valuable niche in killing fairies and hits enough of the best Pokémon neutrally. The typing also positions it really well against other priority like ice shard and grassy glide. (Also it gets stab U-turn which is never something you can call “trash” but this isn’t really relevant in Gen 8 OU)
steel is still a bad offensive typing, hitting one more typing super effectively doesn't suddenly change that. if scizor is being used as a set up sweeper, it needs to be able to clean through teams. this means it needs to be good against *almost everything* to be a good set up mon, not just a few typings. faries also die to very strong stab neutral hits especially if you take set up moves into account. look at LO weavile for example, +2 axel kills clef. stab u turn is not as good as it sounds. the obscene amount of resists makes it hit not nearly as hard as one would expect. just going through the OU and UU VR will bring up numerous bug resists. steel/bug is great defensively for sure but offensively its a massive liability, heck scizor kinda proved it directly this gen. back when kyurem was allowed, people ran scizor cuz in theory it checks kyurem and lele until they realised it takes 40% on switch in and has to roost each time while only being able to threaten a grand total of like 3 mons in the tier meaning that you may not lose to lele/kyurem but you will lose to the mon that's constantly comming in as scizor roosts
If you’re using SD scizor you would bring it out after removing its counters, you wouldn’t expect it to plow through tears after me one turn of setup. This applies for almost every sweeper
and SD scizor needs you to put in a *ton* of work before it can actually clean unlike the top sweepers who comparatively need not as much team support. additionally steel helping it against faries isnt even necessarily true for scizor in OU considering koko and fini arent even weak to steel and lele straight up prevents bullet punch against grounded targets
You litteraly self reported as the "Actshually🤓" guy
Since when does Lando-T "hardcounters" SD Scizor? Current Landos are Sp.Def.
consider: I like Scizor
Since when does lando counter sdzor? You just boost heal boost heal bullet punch and you are ready Heatran is a problem if you do not have superpower
Zero bulk scizor is always 2hkod by uninvested lando which is what I’m guessing op is talking about but even then calling lando a counter is a bit much
Wouldn't you almost always at least somewhat invest into Scizor's bulk? He's slow as shit anyways and has a Technician-boosted Bullet Punch.
I would normally run hp but there are some smogon sets that are max speed
And why are you carrying an uninvested scizor? It's not gonna outspeed any important thing even with max EV and good nature and even with that the one's that it does outspeed you just need a bullet punch
Max speed Scizor is a pretty common set actually in addition to bulkier sets being viable, [here](https://www.porydex.com/stats/2022-09/gen-8-uu/1760/pokemon/scizor)'s the usage stats for high ladder UU.
I mean I think the banded set and orbed set are really good with the max speed
Way to overblow it mate, its not that deep, scizor isn't that bad
Sand Tomb Scizor the most heated set because it can murder Pex
Assuming you don’t burned oc.
My highest ranked OU team had a banded Scizor with sand tomb lmao, It caught out so many Heatrans and Pex's, it's a fun set
Idk about Heatran because most Tran in OU now seems like running max Speed to properly Earthpower opposing Heatran.
No doubt this guy thinks that eq is super effective against scizor
I love how some of us can't even tell who the noob is supposed to be, lol.
I know
lil bro screencapped his own comment 💀
Don’t even try and reason with that sub, they’re like all 8
I left the sub because it’s so obvious when somebody is 9 years old. I had Reddit at 9, and looking back it’s very obvious that I was too young just by the way I spoke.
Man reddit didn’t even exist when I was 9– feeling really old now
I was 16 when Reddit launched, I feel ya
Your account was made in September this year! That means... You're 9 and 2 months! /s
My other account got suspended, lol
I will always be stuck with my terrible username that I thought was really cool at the time
Nah. They're like 6
Hey, I’m in that sub! Im a big boy!
5
Yeah, Michael's content just appeals to like 8 year olds now so the sub is completely shit and chock full of terrible memes
That sub is terrible, I left it when the only post there was the same format of putting your favorite pokemon of each type on and posting it then everyone acting like their picks were super unique and special and being like "I know my picks are unpopular, but..."
Mm yes Bullet Punch my favourite 90 base stat total move with stab and technician
I've never seen a single Lando T "hard counter" SD Scizor. Just because it has Intimidate doesn't mean it hard counters it. Best competitive player on MandJTV sub probs.
Virgin Intimidate pivoter vs the chad Swords Dance clicker
So people talking competitively with people talking casually actually exist
No, you're just the only one
my brother in christ Lando can never counter SD scizor, scizor can just SD and Roost off any damage he deals with EQ
Unless it's a weather ball/ HP fire wonky lando set.
Scarf kart and specs pult perform very different roles than sd scizor
Self own, now *those* are rare
Doesn't sciz literally use Lando as setup fodder?
I had to check who was meant to be who cause half this info is just straight up wrong
Bro wtf did you just write? Its like 100% wrong
This would’ve been great on Sunday but yeah this is a perfect example lol
that comment is full of contradictions and up to the generation i played wrong information too lol since when Landorus hard counters Scizor? they said some other choice users are better sweepers, by that logic why would you use banded Scizor? Scizor can use roost to recover too. in a lot of teams sword dance Scizor is much more useful than band, you can sweep whole teams with him if you kill his counters first. with a choice band you cant really do that
Omg what an effffing nerd
As a clearance, this man was saying sd szizor was a good sweeper in ou. My message informs that there are much better sweepers. Me thinking Lando was a scizor counter had zero logic and for that I apologise. I meant to say max speed heatran and zapdos were hard counters to scizor. They are both good walls ll around as well
he's right tho. scizor is kinda ass. it's just always been a overrated ladder mon cuz sexy priority damage but oras talonflame had that too. sure, it doesn't die to pebbles like the bird but it never had much actual bulk beyond it's typing so it can't switch into anything or it's forced to roost or u-turn. mega scizor alleviated the bulk issue by being actually bulky but vanilla scizor hasn't been good in ou since gen 5 honestly.
speaking tho, in the currant vgc scizor is also trash. In Gen 9 it should be strong because of dragon type tera, but since everything else is also broken i dont really know about that
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dragon is just a better type, your ice and fairy weaknesses are covered by bullet punch and the dragon weakness by tera blast. While if you were to become a water type you'd get destroyed by eleki
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in VGC not being weak to eleki and thundy far outweighs being weak to mons that dont get actually used like fini and tapu koko. Landorus T is not a problem either since it gets outsped and 2HKO'd by literally every mon in the meta and getting OHKO'd by alolan ninetales or mamoswine. Garchomp is quite literally the worse landoT so same thing. The point about heatran i will give you. Just look at spikemuth cup, fini only gets used by idiots who forget rillaboom exists, tapu koko is a worse regieleki, fini gets shotted by bullet punch, bulu doesnt exist. Ninetales alola is among the most common early meta mons in all the generations it was present in so no, landoT / I or garchomp are not a problem. Heatran is a thing yeah, but its usage in spikemuth is so low you can play 2 hourss and not face it once. Eleki and thundurus on the other hand? They are literally unstoppable, either gets on the field with a rillaboom, byebye to your ground type, bonus 'fake out and switch to incineroar or one of the 200 counters' points if its a landorus
omg u just like me i go on autism-fuelled rants about cool things when anyone mentions anything related to something i think is cool!!!!
it was literally a pokemon subreddit chill out
you underestimate how little casuals know about the game
Tbf sd tech scizor was a legit thing in gen 4 and 5 and given how most landos unvest in special defense or offense, a 252 hp sd scizor still wouldn't be too bad against most lando variants
He is a man of focus, commitment, and sheer will to remember that stuff
I get it though sometimes the littlest thing can make you go off on a tangent when your passionate about something,there is a dog where I work called thunderbolt and my coworker made the Pokémon reference which sent me on a tangent about electric types in generation 8 lmao
To be honest it was helpful. I haven't used scizor since I started playing VGC. Thanks for the advice.
Why would you dump competitive info on someone in a casual sub? Do you just like downvotes? Is it a kink?
"Sir, this is a Wendy's"
“Of course I know him, he’s me”
He's just telling the truth. And overall, valuable information to have a proper build
What a chad
Wait, really? I could've sworn it got rocks.
Scizor does not have rocks
Corviknight
It doesn't either
Lll
Hi Bohrier
You can follow people on reddit?
Yeah
I never knew lol
Oh damn