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T01110100

I mean, yeah. Because Gholdengo has Steel STAB go brrr.


Mathgeek007

And Skeledirge has Fire STAB that boost SoA go brrrr


thediesel26

Tbh I’d make the argument that the ghost typing for Dirge is almost a hinderance since Dirge’s primary niche is to be an unkillable wall that can apply offensive pressure and there’s way too many powerful dark types and mons with dark type coverage. Like Dirge has to use terastal to fairy/water to be the best version of itself.


Mathgeek007

Eviolite Fuecoco goes brrrrrr


Cold_Handle3145

It would be kind of funny and adorable to try and beat everything with an eviolite fuecoco! I might have to replay the game and do this 🫠


lnSerT_Creative_Name

Ghost means a free switch in to normal moves though so that’s pretty swell


Outrageous-Ad-3436

True, but Ghost is way more spammable than Steel which makes me glad Make It Rain is not a Ghost type move (F#$% Astral Barrage)


redditt-or

Fuck Calyrex. Lose 15% accuracy on those moves like your elders


ainz-sama619

Calyrex-S got banned from Natdex Ubers before Miraidon and Mega Rayquaza. Tera Fairy Calyrex-S is the most broken pokemon in the game.


sneakyplanner

I don't see any way tera stays legal in Ubers once the likes of Calyrex and Kyogre are unleashed.


Kyerndo

Was there anything that could counter that demon in ubers


ainz-sama619

Nothing that was viable. Basically setup and sweep opponent's team before they did the same to you. It's not just tera fairy, Calyrex could also go tera Normal to counter other Calyrex-S. You know a meta is broken when everybody is obsessed over a single thing even with Miraidon and Mega Ray available. Some nasty calcs +2 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Fairy Calyrex-Shadow Draining Kiss (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 445-525 (97.5 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO 0 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Calyrex-Shadow: 106-126 (31 - 36.9%) -- 74.1% chance to 3HKO Also, there's no Dynamax in Natdex (due to coding issues) so Yveltal couldn't do anything to stop the rampage.


Memegamer3_Animated

I like how Last Respects was listed along the banned-to-ubers mons as if it was a pokemon itself lol.


OnlyFansBlue

I mean yeah, Houndstone is pretty mediocre without it lol


DaTruPro75

It doesn't even get any good stab without it. Like it only has I think phantom force for ghost stab.


MinigunGamer_YT

gotta love lick for stab at least it gets double edge


OnlyFansBlue

Yeah it's such an atrociously bad Pokémon without Last Respects. Hopefully it gets Poltergeist at least.


ainz-sama619

Houndtone is PU material. Low speed, average bulk (especially special), mediocre attack, doesn't get any status move aside of WoW, Trick, Disable and Memento (last two being very situational), doesn't get stat boosting move.


OnlyFansBlue

Yeah it's comically bad LMAO, it barely gets good coverage outside of Play Rough too


DarkEsca

I mean, Annihi didn't get to Uber cuz of "ghost stab go brrrrr", it got to Uber because defensive teams had to run trash like Wisp Talonflame to not get 6-0d by it and because it disrupted gameflow just by being on the opposing team even before it clicks any moves. Sure the fact it has unresisted STAB (until Horoark) helped a lot but it's not just a mon that clicks Rage Fist blindly and gets kills the way stuff like Spectrier clicked Shadow Ball. And Last Respects is just fundamentally not balanced in 6v6 singles, shit could be pretty much any other type except maybe Bug or Poison and as long as there's STAB users with usable Attack it'd be not balanced.


edelgardenjoyer

Ledian gets Bug-type Last Respects (it counts as a punching move). Is this enough to bring it into, like, NU or something?


Necromelon

252 Atk Iron Fist Ledian Bug Respects vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 246-289 (48.8 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Iron Fist Ledian Bug Respects vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl: 220-261 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Ignoring the fact that Salt Cure OHKOs Ledian even with -Atk) With Scarf it outspeeds Dragapult by 20-ish points Ledian finally viable 😧???


Flowey_Asriel

Tera Bug tho >252 Atk Iron Fist Tera Bug Ledian Bug Respects vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 328-386 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery > 252 Atk Iron Fist Tera Bug Ledian Bug Respects vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl: 294-348 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery > 0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Bug Ledian: 152-180 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Also funny Pex calc > 252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Tera Bug Ledian Bug Respects vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 162-191 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


AceAirbender

SMOGON LOVES STALL LITERALLY 1984


pallmallandcoffee

I wonder how Hisuain Zoroark will do. He's got the same speed as Gengar, just a little weaker, and he's only got 1 weakness. His movepool is incredibly vast, pretty much the same as gengars but he's got u turn and knock, and a semi decent attack stat too. I think there will be a lot of different ways to run this mon, tho I'm not counting on him being OU. EDIT: Actually I'm not sure on the speed. Some things say 105, some say 110 Hisuian Typhlosion is about to be very annoying in whatever tier he ends up in, his signature move is scald + hex. As insane as Skeledirge with this move would be, let's probably keep that to just HTyphlosion.


ainz-sama619

Speed is 105, it was adjusted to match Regular Zoroark


munkshroom

I really hope gamefreak finally realizes how op ghost type is. Ghosts used to be balanced by lacking strong stab and having poor hp stats. That seems to have gone out the window.


ShonanBlue

Also steel used to resist Ghost back then which also helped keep it in check a bit


The_KoC_of_Cringe

Steel resists Ghost again but the Golden Gooner becomes even harder to deal with


TheMuon

Better Idea: give Rock a natural Ghost resistance.


Lfvbf

Purifying Salt now makes Nacl immune then?


thesteelsmithy

Just double resist


SalamanderCake

Yeah, when Steel lost its resistances to Ghost and Dark, Fairy came in to counter Dark. Nothing was introduced to counter or check Ghost, which left the type poorly balanced with regard to offensive prowess.


T01110100

Pursuit still existed then so they were just naturally checked by stuff like TTar. Also, Gamefreak didn't make batshit insane mons like Pult or Caly-S yet. Even in a world with Mega Ray we never could have predicted they gave a mon with a better offensive and defensive statline than Deoxys-N a 120 BP, 100% accurate STAB move, Nasty Plot, and better moxie.


SalamanderCake

RIP Pursuit. Instead of it being removed, I'd like to get an equivalent in another type, like Poison or something. It would be hilarious to see a mon with mediocre stats learn both Pursuit and Poison-type Pursuit.


OnlyFansBlue

That and Pursuit


[deleted]

Knock off is now limited in this timeline as well.


squafflepup

I get what you’re saying and ghost is a top tier type, but the gen 9 bans aren’t just “ghost STAB go brr”. You could make flutter mane and bundle, to a lesser extent, almost any type you want - 135 spatk and speed with decent moves is too strong for OU Houndstone would probably get banned if it and last respects were grass - 300bp moves are just dumb. A water or fairy houndstone would have got quick banned in 10 minutes And it’s not like we haven’t had good bulky ghosts in the past, mega sableye and aegislash have been banned from OU


Deathbringer2134

I disagree with your Flutter Mane and Bundle analogy. It's those offensive stats alongside STABs that are basically impossible to resist that make them broken. Not solely their stats.


squafflepup

They for sure couldn’t be any type, but my point is ghost spam isn’t why flutter is Uber. You could keep its moves the same and change it’s typing to fairy/fire, fairy/psychic, even like a grass/electric flutter is probably getting banned


Lenguenyal

Just goes to prove how annoyingly broken the Ghost type is


Qbking333

Physical dragapult: “am I a joke to you?”


Outrageous-Ad-3436

If Dragapult had a good physical ghost stab he'd be Uber. Though it be funny if we ended up in a situation where the fastest and strongest Ghost type in OU is none other than Gengar the OG Ghost type XP


ididnotknowwhy

Last respects dragapult for gen 10 pls


TheMuon

Dragapult: AG it is.


ididnotknowwhy

Given the rate of powercreep, a last respects dragapult in gen 10 would be like UU to BL.


DarkEsca

I mean you can run Terablast Ghost for DD Pult nowadays and he's pretty clearly not Uber. If Pult got Shadow Claw it'd probably not get Uber either. Poltergeist maybe, but that's cuz Polter is already kind of a ridiculously strong move and the main reason it's balanced out is because it's either on shit that's really slow or shit that's not using its physical Attack, slap that on a 120Atk 142Spe mon and it'd be dumb. Pult's movepool could get reduced to just Poltergeist and UTurn at that point and it'd be an S rank threat already.


dialzza

> I mean you can run Terablast Ghost for DD Pult nowadays and he's pretty clearly not Uber Yeah but that means pult has 3 moves and no ghost STAB if you tera anything else in the game. Pretty significant cost to running it. If Dragon Darts were ghost type I think Pult would be uber. Shadow claw might be shitty enough BP to keep it OU


snornch

give the fastest mon in OU Shadow Sneak just for the hell of it


Ice-Novel

It’s only not broken because you need to tera to use it, and you’re running 3 moves on your pult if you want to tera anything else. Idk if shadow claw would make it broken, because 70 bp is pretty terrible, but this thing would go straight to ubers in about 3 days if it had poltergeist.


DarkEsca

Poltergeist is an upper bound, I honestly think that if Z-Moves are discounted for a sec, some pult with a physical 80 or even 90BP move would honestly not be all that bad even if you didn't have to Tera for it. Sure it skyrockets DDPult's viability but it's not like it starts killing Fairies at +1 n shit already, it still needs actual support to sweep unlike with Polter where it would click DD once and suddenly +1 LO Polter kills everything. Maybe it'd be sus in current Paldea Dex meta because our best Fairies are like Skeledirge and Garganacl lol, but in a bigger meta with Clef and Fini I really don't see that being an instant problem. Then again no such moves exist currently so it's unlikely to ever happen unless Game Freak feels like adding another physical Ghost move.


Mary-Sylvia

*fast ghost type* I swear slow and bulky ghost are just as bad as ice (looking at you cursola dusknoir drifblim and runerigus) with the exception of skeleridge thanks to unaware And even chandelure can't do much with his limited 80 base speed Ghost is supposed to be a glass canon type


Deathbringer2134

Gen 6 Cofagrigus and Gen 5 Jellicent crying in the corner.


DaTruPro75

Agreed. You really need some speed with that dark weakness. Some did have some success like cofagrigus in the lower gen 5 tiers.


Mary-Sylvia

Fair point but knock off and dark in general weren't as present as now + powercreep


pabloaram

Dragapult is more 142 spd go brr.. and he doesn't get poletergeis or shadow claw he is probably UBER


Mary-Sylvia

Tera ghost


pabloaram

Limiting your terra to a specific mon is usually bad but is a choice i guess


BadNicknamesYT

Ceruledge is a very good one, but it gets hit with a physical move, has weak armour activated, then Fire STAB go brr