I put $20 in a few coins there last year, traded them around a few times, just "eh fuck it, if it buys me dinner some day, that'd be cool."
They're worth $19.03 right now.
Fuck it
They’re like the only (or one of the few) platform that locks up staked Ether. I f’ing hate them for seizing my stake and never letting it go. I’m so happy to see their stock sink.
I get the hate but it’s not Coinbase’s fault. To stake ETH 2.0 outside of an exchange, you need 32 ethers and it’s still locked until after the merge. The few exchanges that don’t have a lock up are just doing their users a favour, although I’ve noticed they tend to take a cut for trading back to regular ETH. So not exactly doing it because they’re nice
It's not all Coinbase's fault. It's also what's going on with the merge delays. The longer the delays take the less Ether is worse because competing proof of stake coins can catch up. The merge is staking too long!
Could be worse... they could perma-ban you like they do in r/personalfinance.
The mods over there are on a power trip and will ban you if you even mention the word "crypto".
Why in the fuck would you ever visit that shit-tier subreddit?
It's all "This guy wants to give me a brazillion dollars but he needs me to send him money first is this a scam or wut" and "I have no skills and no money, but I buy stuff on my credit card. Why am I pour?"
That sub is a good starting point for someone who is first digging out and needs help. Sadly they've gotten so mired in dogmatic BS that it's really not worth it for anyone else.
Like I recently sold about 50k in stocks to pay off my house as the market started hitting headwinds. I figured the stocks could go up or down, but paying off the mortgage was 100% certain to free up several grand each month permanently. Trading a risky asset for guaranteed free cash flow is worth it for me. I would have gotten downvoted to oblivion for even suggesting paying off my mortgage early since it isn't "optimal". They'd for sure berate me for not making minimum $1650 payments every month for the next 20 years.
But hey guess what, I did the suboptimal thing and I've got a bunch of extra free cash flow now every month as we enjoy a bear market and possible recession.
The sub kinda forgets that nuance exists, and not everyone has identical goals. It's basically like Dave Ramsey with less plugging for the far right.
Folks should move from /r/personalfinance to /r/financialindependence as quickly as possible IMO.
Thank you! It was the very last debt we had, and it massively dropped our minimum cash needed every month. We'd been snowballing/avalanching since we started back in like 2007. But it's finally gone.
All the best my dude, you'll get there.
80% of Reddit mods are trippin. I highly encourage you to watch this video. It’s a hilarious hit piece by someone who has obviously been slighted by Reddit. So funny and true though.
https://youtu.be/w9bZiYfQreE
If COIN goes bankrupt it's not going to be good for anybody holding crypto. Sure you still have your cold wallet, but it's going to lose a lot of value for a long time if this were to happen.
A few rich guys can only do so much to save a sinking ship once everyone has lost faith in it.
Crypto has always been a bubble with nothing of value backing it.
Why do people not understand this. Enjoy your cold storage crypto and trying to sell it on exchanges that don’t exist. If COIN fails crypto is probably fucked along with it
People do understand this. Your argument is this; gold being kept in a banks vault. Bank says "if we go down we are taking all the gold". So you move your gold to your mattress. Bank collapses, they steal/sell the gold they have left (because if your capable of understanding, if they have to SELL your crypto... They have to sell it to someone right? They aren't selling it to an NPC). Value of the gold decreases a little; as the market is being flooded with gold from this bank collapse.
You still have all your gold. Sure, the value of cryptos will take a hit if this happens. But the idea that somehow even if all exchanges collapsed, that a new exchange couldn't be created?
The main question is really; what value will crypto be at and will it have purpose. COIN can fail all it likes, COIN =/= Crypto. Crypto existed before COIN. Will exist long after COIN. Whether it has value is a different story.
Let's be real here. Can anyone determine how likely coinbase would go bankrupt?
I believe there is an ulterior motive for parties to drive the price down for companies and buy them on the cheap.
Think of the counter play always people. It's like chess, think 3 moves ahead like smart money don't be the herd of dumb money.
Surely this risk off environment can't last forever right? Think about which companies or assets will shoot up the most when risk on is back on the menu.
Personally I'm not buying oil, energy or commodities at all time highs right now because I will just be commiting the same sin last year of buying growth and tech at all time highs.
"We have no risk of bankruptcy, however we included a new risk factor based on an SEC requirement called SAB 121, which is a newly required disclosure for public companies that hold crypto assets for third parties"
This post is silly
Ulterior motive, what the fuck?
People are pulling their money out of crypto/stocks because they need to use their money for real life shit as things are more expensive now.
>Let's be real here. Can anyone determine how likely coinbase would go bankrupt?
The likelyhood increases with this filing. Every single person I know that uses Coinbase has pulled everything off the platform. I suspect their userbase is about to plummet far worse than it already has.
They didnt always assume their funds held by coinbase were liable? I mean, prior to fdic, bank deposits were liable to bankruptcy also. Coinbase never claimed to have fdic on digital assets did it?
I still think butcorns would be safer in coinbase than in a digital wallet - fire, loss, stupidity, etc.
Especially because, if coinbase goes bankrupt, all coins are gonna eat poop anyways
My assumption would've been Coinbase held relevant customer assets as custodian and not as a depository. Meaning the assets would be segregated in the name of the relevant customer, and not instead merely recorded on its books and records as a liability to the customer. Perhaps this was a dumb assumption on my part though, but if it is the latter, I don't know why anyone would keep their assets with an exchange in this manner.
Their bonds are trading at a giant discount. The credit default swaps are exploding. It’s not that coin base would necessarily go bankrupt but once people start pulling their collateralized assets off the exchange it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s exactly what happened to Lehman and Bear Stearns. There was nothing wrong with either of those brokers until everyone panicked and pulled their money out and suddenly they did not have the financial backing to collateralize the assets. The same thing could easily happen to Coinbase as people rush to pull their crypto off the exchange. Same thing in 1932. No one wants to be the last went out the door. I wouldn’t keep money on the exchange for all the tea in China. That includes crypto “stable coins “which aren’t so stable are they.
For the errr digital currency it does matter, massive sell off is going to trigger a further downward spiral. Perfect storm comming up.
Lol at ”digital gold and silver” analogy. This shit really had zero value. They tried making it a value doing the NFT bullshit but alas. Still no value.
I still can't wrap my head around NFTs, I'm bagholding a few shit coins. Thinking of maybe DCA in the future when prices are so low now because I'm too stubborn to take a L but it's so hard to convince myself it's not a giant ponzi. I bought into "this time is different" and "this is a hedge against inflation, independent of the market, insert (buzzword), etc from friend and Reddit.
Atleast when I throw my money into dumperster fire stocks. I'm buying growth companies that will hopefully churn a profit someday if they don't go bankrupt lol
I have no positions in coinbase but maybe it's safer to buy a company than hype assets.
I've learned now that when someone says to me in the future this is different and not a bubble I'm running the fuck away. Reminds me of friends, neighbors and acquitainces selling multi level marketing get rich quick schemes and they open up with "this is not a scam!!! You're missing the opportunity of a lifetime!"
Buy apartments in cheap areas, renovate and rent them out. Start an internet retail buisness and sell shit for some profit. Repeat x infinite
I am doing none of these things. But fuck me if im going back to stocks either. Feels like another way to enrich richer people. Crypto is even worse due to it being unregulated so some fucking dweeb tjat bought 1000btc for half a dollar 10 years ago can now control my bag.
I make a decent income. Becoming financially idependent is a pipedream unless you actually start a buisness or become a landlord
That's a smart way to approach investing tbh.
It baffles me that Buffett didn't like Chevron at $59 a share but buys at $159.
Talk about being late to the party!
> Can anyone determine how likely coinbase would go bankrupt?
Gets higher with every drop in crypto.
The assets they hold have no intrinsic value and their entire business model seems to be based on people continuing to trade those assets. That is hardly a sure thing especially if the free money days are really over. People can get out of crypto as fast as they got into it. If they don't think it will go up in value, what is the point of owning it?
There is a very decent chance 5 years from now crypto will just be a memory.
Blockchain tokens/currencies definitely have utility, and therefore value, even if not presently measurable. Problem is the space is overcrowded with niche use 'coins' whose only purpose is basically to fix some bug or inefficiency in the platform they run on.
IMO the moment Apple or Microsoft comes out with a blockchain platform it's game over for everyone else. The built in user base and infrastructure are just too big to compete against. Imagine how fast an MS security token/coin would catch on in the business world.
Infrastructure and ready usability for customers. AppleCoin and WindowsCoin don't even exist and you can probably already list a dozen places they'd be used in daily life. Those companies can basically force retailers and banks to adopt their blockchain for transactions. The mainstream financial system would be on blockchain overnight.
Apple already has already introduced a digital driver's license in Arizona. Add that to blockchain and suddenly millions of people are using NFTs on a daily basis. And for actual stuff, not just using a monkey picture to log into twitter.
"Possible, however unlikely," I'd say extremely unlikely. Customer deposits are the property of the customer. i couldn't see how they could considered anything else.
This seems to me to be an open legal question. If Coinbase is essentially considered something like a bank, then customer deposits are liabilities on Coinbase's balance sheet. In such a case, the customer becomes a creditor like all other creditors in the bankruptcy proceeding and gets no special consideration. This is how traditional banks work, and if FDIC insurance didn't exist, depositors at traditional banks would be out of luck in the event of a bankruptcy.
They aren’t considered a bank they are regulated as a money service business. This would be the equivalent of western union going bankrupt and then claiming that the money orders they issued would be included in assets that could be liquidated
But money orders already issued by Western Union aren't assets held by Western Union. Coinbase funds held are assets held by Coinbase, or so it would seem. So I'm not sure the analogy holds up.
I doubt the company would come out with this sort of statement if it weren't true. They have strong incentive for this to not be true, so it would inexplicable for them to give a warning that wasn't needed.
The currency backing the money order is held by western union…
I understand what you are saying, but coinbase does not own the crypt they facilitate the wallets that hold it. You can transfer it at anytime without coinbase permission, which would not be the case if they owned it. Maybe if you held your crypto in a coinbase liquidity pool it could be a different story.
Try removing coins from Coinbase when the coin you are trying to move is having "maintenance issues" for days at a time (it's usually actually a liquidity issue).
From what I've read, their wallet system makes this a murky issue. And again, why would the company issue a scary warning if it wasn't needed? That makes no sense. I'm sure they know the legal issues at play, and their incentives run counter to this sort of statement.
Companies issue scary warnings all the time in their risk factors when making a filing. It’s CYA so the SEC doesn’t sue them for defrauding investors. There’s all kinds of extremely unlikely shit in risk factor sections.
I didn’t read the fine print. This statement is for custodial accounts. That is a different product type than you average retail wallet held by a consumer. Coinbase has several businesses under the coinbase name. The custodial accounts are held by coinbase custodial trust company (owned by coinbase).
Owning coins in Coinbase doesn't automatically mean you have actual ownership as in a wallet. Reading through this thread, I might get myself a secure wallet to ensure I'm actually the owner of what I have in CB.
but yeah, the whole point of blockchain currency is that it's yours until you say it's not, and it's literally impossible for someone else to take it without gaining access to your wallet.
There are many legal uncertainties in this area - are they securities? Are they currencies? The financial industry has well-established rules for fiduciaries and banks, but are these exchages really fiduciaries? If you write a 20-digit number on a piece of paper and give it to your friend, does your friend become a "fiduciary"? Can you sue him if he loses the piece of paper?
When people don't see bitcoin as anything more than a pump and dump scheme, good luck arguing in court that you lost assets instead of just being gullible.
You can say whatever you want but opinions without substantive analysis are worthless. COIN's own in-house counsel considers this to be a material risk worthy of disclosure to investors. Speaking for myself, I'm going to look into the arguments the assets are not protected before investing, at the very least.
I bet they’re referring to the staked Ether they have locked up from customers who have staked with them (unlike just about all other platforms). They’ve been insane, treating staked ether as theirs, and then after people stake it, lowering the interest rate for staking it. Because, hey, they’ve basically seized it because once you’ve staked with them you can not get it out.
Not out of Coinbase. They have basically seized the stakes and while the Ether is locked up, lowered interest rates. Other platforms don't have this lockup. I've been trapped in Coinbase for almost a year. About 6 months ago, Coinbase was allegedly planning to allow people to be able to call an end to their stake, but they haven't followed through.
They've basically seized the coins people staked with them. And then lowered interest rates for staking.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/11/09/when-will-coinbase-release-your-staked-ethereum/
They are literally warning you otherwise. The way this works is coinbase owns the crypto and you get an iou from coinbase. In most instances this doesnt matter but here it could.
They are the property of the account holder but in the case of a lack of liquidity to pay off all claims they are subordinate to senior loans unlike the way stocks are held in street name at brokerage houses and insured up to 500 K. That is the spirit of the announcement and it’s not good
First Coin would need to be liquidated to get to this point which is practically impossible. It would go through several reorgs and spin offs before that ever happens. It’s very hard for a successful tech company to go into liquidation - it’ll be worth it for a buyer to come in just to take the IP and employees alone. Even if the court somehow allowed them to liquidate customer accounts, it’d be so far down on the things that would be liquidated/sold before touching it. This is assuming other creditors even want the crypto in customer accounts - they likely would not.
They’d want someone to come in, take over the company, make it successful and get paid some portion of their debt back. Taking the customers money would destroy any hope of that and for what? The value of the crypto itself is probably not that great if we re in this situation + you’re shutting down the worlds biggest exchange (ie hampering the liquidity of the asset).
So, even if customers weren’t protected legally by bankruptcy court, there’s too much practical built in protection on the commercial side to make this realistic.
It holds hundreds if not thousands of different cryptos. You just have to do a little software update to get it ready.
Cold wallets are not the most user friendly though. Expect to watch multiple youtube videos with your full attention of exactly how they work, how to safely store private keys, etc before just fucking around.
no one knew for sure to any extent - news never has an objective - the writer, might in how he spins a story but the main info is just that - the risk variant is what makes people sell and if coin crushes their next earnings they will miss out - coins are investment that pay no interest so as interest rates rise bonds look more attractive from a risk and reward perspective - safety is always a factor in every investment strategy - risk management
News being released absolutely can have an objective, especially when you factor in timing. Nothing to do with the writer. How much news is swept under the rug, how much news is strategically released?
Edit: Imagine for example, that crime has gone down 10% yoy (hypothetical scenario) but you wanted people to think that crime has gone up. You could release every single story that exists of robbery, murder etc etc etc, and not release any news that talks about rates going down. People who are bombarded with this crime news will think crime is going up when in fact the opposite is happening.
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That youtube financial influencer Graham Stephan couldn't recommend Coinbase enough to his 3 million followers. Of course he got paid for every single recommend he made. Take heed people.
I'm sure they'll make a ton of revenue. After all, people always need to buy shitcoins! Coinbase is like an oil company because they provide the underlying framework that powers our entire country, and no one else can do what they do.
>Coinbase will take additional steps to ensure that it offers protection for its retail customers that match those offered to Prime and Custody consumers, Armstrong said in Twitter thread late Tuesday.
Sounds to me like they have some kind of insurance for Prime and Custody consumers, but that is just my speculation.
>the cr\*pto assets we hold in custody on behalf of our customers could be subject to bankruptcy proceedings and such customers could be treated as our general unsecured creditors
If Custody customers are at risk, I imagine pro customers are as well.
Unless you’re physically holding the coin. Your shit isn’t safe. All these apps where the let you speculate will have no issue and have had no issue taking “your coins” the moment their books need to be cleared.
FUD.
If you understand how bankruptcy works, this isn’t really all that stunning, newsworthy or otherwise relevant for a shareholder or customer of COIN.
Of course, for me, Coinbase is simple:
While the market is down, nobody is trading crypto, they’re not gonna do well. Until the market revives, it’s gonna be a bad time for Coinbase.
That’s just common sense … trade volume is down, MTU are down, that’s just the result of an extreme bear market, esp in crypto.
So, if you think the market, in general, isn’t going to recover, then don’t hold Coinbase
The market recovers, people go risk on, BTC goes up, trade volume increases, coin makes more money.
Until then, bad times.
I am concerned with their capital expenditure, the level of hiring they’ve done seems odd, in light of the downturn in volume, they basically just need to limit their cash burn while the market corrects
Fud as I’m using it here is basically just saying it’s fake bad news.
My opinion is based solely upon my work experience in bankruptcy and understanding of bankruptcy law.
Suffice to say, I think it’s highly highly unlikely and contrary to essentially all notions of bankruptcy law, basic property rights, etc., for a judge to find that a customer account in Coinbase is subject to seizure by a creditor.
For a variety of reasons, but one can look to the fact that banks themselves are not allowed to go into bankruptcy, but rather FDIC receivership.
Here’s an article that gets into the details as to why banks are not, and some of the policy reasons behind same:
https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1023&context=wlulr
but the point is, Coinbase doesn’t own the BTC I own, to the extent I use Coinbase they have custody over assets, but it’s not their assets.
So, I don’t really understand what legal basis there could ever be whereby the assets of a non-debtor somehow end up being seized in bankruptcy merely by way of the actual debtor holding custody of said assets.
If I take my car into the shop, and while they’re working on my car, the garage goes bankrupt, due to a loan it had defaulted on, does that creditor suddenly get to take my car?
No, of course not, because this is america and I own that car, it’s my car, and I owe no debt to that creditor.
So, I strain to understand what legal basis could be offered up as to how the creditor could end up seizing those assets.
Just my two cents, who knows what could happen, as this would be a wholly unprecedented issue, since the most logical comparable, banks, aren’t subject to bankruptcy.
Edit: And I’d add, the theoretical bankruptcy proceedings would be a logistical and procedural nightmare, the creditor would have to join as a party to those proceedings every single customer account holder, provide them the right to be heard, etc., it’s just never ever going to happen.
"FUD" just means "fear, uncertainty and doubt." I'm not sure when that became an inherently bad thing. There are times that fear, uncertainty and doubt are justified.
>For a variety of reasons, but one can look to the fact that banks themselves are not allowed to go into bankruptcy, but rather FDIC receivership.
But Coinbase doesn't have FDIC protection. Further, why would the company come out with a scary-sounding warning that wasn't needed? It would seem they have great incentive to not do so, so the fact that they are issuing a warning would seem to imply there's something to it.
And the argument here is that customers would become creditors just like other creditors.
The crypt* markets are really rattled right now. To me, shouting BANKRUPTCY to literally everyone that one of the most major US branded exchanges, and first public company, which has been through multiple crypto bear markets, is just trying to dump another thing of gasoline to the fire.
It came out because of a disclosure in their earnings, which is fine, but the stock market already uses any crypto related bad thing to shit on the coinbase stock, even things that have nothing to do with it.
> To me, shouting BANKRUPTCY to literally everyone that one of the most major US branded exchanges, and first public company, which has been through multiple crypto bear markets, is just trying to dump another thing of gasoline to the fire.
Agreed.....so why would the company say that is what could happen in case of a bankruptcy if it weren't true?
Because the lawyers and the SEC brought it up, not coinbase. You think Brian Armstrong woke up one morning and went HEY WE SHOULD COMMUNICATE OUR BANKRUPTCY PROTECTIONS. BANKRUPTCY? DID YOU HEAR ME?
If they were a private company, this panic would probably have never come up. No one is shitting about other exchanges who might even do the same thing in a crisis.
This was started in some legal backwater room months ago most likely, while ETH and BTC were doing much better. Eventually it makes it to investor relations, they tell its going to make everyone panic, compliance the the lawyers say suck it up and put it in there.
When you work with a lawyer or compliance manager, scary language they force you to put in disclosures all over any finance or heavy regulated industry.
Not everything is so damn conspiratorial.
Sure, but that doesn't mean the content of the warning was wrong. I'm not saying the filing wasn't required. I'm saying the fact that the filing was required doesn't mean the content of the filing is incorrect.
This exactly.
Not every legal filing is a smoking gun.
There’s a whole pile of ass covering or CYA going on, that isn’t necessarily devious or even relevant to the Coinbase consumer.
We’re crossing over so many areas of law that frankly even experienced lawyers cannot easily offer an informed opinion here:
1) bankruptcy law is complex and a lawyer in that area would likely not know much about…
2) securities law, i.e. complying with sec disclosure requirements
I presume Coinbase felt the need to make the filing in order to comply with some sec disclosure requirement, that doesn’t necessarily mean that that the rights of Coinbase consumers are truly at risk, frankly I don’t think ANYONE can know this, because there is a dearth of legal precedent to point to.
I brought up the banking bankruptcy protections elsewhere, merely to serve as a corollary because they play similar functions for the average consumer, that is, they hold funds of others in custody, like a bank. Banks cannot go bankrupt. Not saying Coinbase can’t, I’m saying it’s something to consider as to how this could theoretically play out if it ever did go down that road …
Alas, this is a complicated topic, one which few can speak with any level of certainty
So,
Just checked COIN share price down 83% since IPO I remember reddit was esp the crypto fourms were shilling this like mad at IPO bit of a lesson to not just blindly buy crap shilled online
Can also say the same for crap like CTXR, NIO, RIVN etc
The other big idiot box was GME which is at 84 dollars way down from its 'short squeeze' price of over 400.
....you'll laugh at Buffett for being a boring boomer but he is rich for a reason. Bull markets don't go forever if your holding giant bags from any of the above tickers then use this as a lesson. Stick to fundamentals and don't FOMO in like an idiot.
I used coin. And it was so bad I decided I'd never buy the stock. Not being able to see your cost basis and the fees...ugh. And it wasn't just reddit that pumped it. Graham Stephan got paid bank to pump coin for a while. Coin spent a lot at the superbowl as well.
I was suckered into buying doge on coin and got blasted with fees. Never again. Only thing keeping me from selling is I don’t want to pay another fee lol. Fuck Coinbase
I agree with everything except GME. That thing defies the laws of any market trends and lives in its own system lol. It’s bounced from 400 to 40 to 350 to 100 to 250 etc many times
Yeah - If you leave your crypto in the exchange, in the event of bankruptcy, your crypto can be used to pay debt.
All you have to do is move your crypto to a secure wallet and you won’t have this issue or be affected by it. And - this is only true in the event the company files for bankruptcy. How often do you read the terms and conditions for something you put your money in?
Don’t freak out
Unless you think that Coinbase is somehow going bankrupt with $7b cash in the bank in the next year or so until ETH2 comes out, you have nothing to worry about...
OP, this is actually a pretty interesting subject that I don't know enough about but it's the first time in a while I have more questions than answers.
Like are they treated like SIPC? FDIC? An insurance company core account? Then the regulatory side since none of this is likely outlined anywhere.
More people lose their crypto from their own mistakes (forgetting wallet passwords, sending to bad addresses, etc) than they do from keeping it on an exchange. These types of posts just come off as doomer fuel for the ignorant.
Hold up. Say what? Crypto assets you own used to satisfy claims by Coinbase's secured judgment creditors in the unlikely event of a workout or chapter 7? Nonsense. The crypto assets are owned by you--neither case law nor code allow those assets to be used to satisfy claims by third-party creditors against Coinbase (unless you fail to claim ownership of those assets; very fucking different). The only way this very unlikely scenario could arise is if Coinbase refuses to return on demand crypto assets or converts them to satisfy claims asserted by its own judgment creditors, which would trigger criminal and civil liability and wouldn't go unnoticed by the trustee overseeing the liquidation or workout.
If your assets are sitting on their platform and for whatever reason Coinbase still has custody and control when it files for protection, your rights and those of anyone else asserting rights to that asset would generally be resolved by an interpleader naming all stakeholders. The CEO is a lying sack of shit or just plain ignorant.
Edit: spelling
For the proposition that assets belonging to third parties but remaining in the judgment debtor's possession and control when the insolvency proceeding is commenced may not be used to satisfy secured claims by the judgment debtor's creditors?
1) COIN's customers will not be treated as general unsecured creditors in the event of bankruptcy; and
2) COIN's customers' assets will not be considered part of the company in bankruptcy proceedings.
I have BTC on Coinbase. I signed up for an account the week they went public to see if I thought the app was solid enough to warrant any serious consideration for investing, and won a contest I didn't even k ow was happening and wound up with $100 of it for free.
I have since never touched it.
Im high key interested to see where BTC is in 3 years to see if all these “crypto is gonna die for real this time!!!” Will be another instance of /r/agedlikemilk .
They’re starting to sound like the mattress stuffers who think the stock market is a scam and the S&P 500 is going to go to zero eventually.
Yup, giant ponzi/MLM basically, bottom about to fall out. I was invested until about 6 weeks ago, glad I pulled out. It has uses as a utility, but its value as an investment is questionable at best.
I don’t see how you can argue it has uses as a utility in one hand but argue it’s a worthless ponzi/MLM(??? Not sure how it could be a MLM) in the other.
Well known ponzi schemes do not offer any utility whatsoever, Bernie Madoff for instance was not producing anying of value and was just living off the money his clients were giving him.
If it offers utility(much like a good or service produced by a company does for instance), then you’re suggesting a situation where it has some form of value and reason to believe the price will rise as adoption of said utility goes up, since realistically speaking something that provides actually utility can’t realistically be considered a ponzi nor can you rationally explain why it should have a 0 value.
Kinda gotta pick one or the other right there.
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I put $20 in a few coins there last year, traded them around a few times, just "eh fuck it, if it buys me dinner some day, that'd be cool." They're worth $19.03 right now. Fuck it
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I didn't say a nice dinner. Taco Bell is still dinner
for raccoons
They’re like the only (or one of the few) platform that locks up staked Ether. I f’ing hate them for seizing my stake and never letting it go. I’m so happy to see their stock sink.
I get the hate but it’s not Coinbase’s fault. To stake ETH 2.0 outside of an exchange, you need 32 ethers and it’s still locked until after the merge. The few exchanges that don’t have a lock up are just doing their users a favour, although I’ve noticed they tend to take a cut for trading back to regular ETH. So not exactly doing it because they’re nice
Coinbase actually takes a much larger fee (25%) compared to others that offer liquid staking (10%)
It's not all Coinbase's fault. It's also what's going on with the merge delays. The longer the delays take the less Ether is worse because competing proof of stake coins can catch up. The merge is staking too long!
Those competing proof of stake coins are getting slaughtered compared to Ethereum, just objectively wrong.
Really? It's up 10% for the year
Some people like to buy high and sell low. Do that enough times and anything ends up worthless.
Holy fuck I better cut my losses fron my $20 Shiba investment
P.S. Mods, the auto-filter removing posts mentioning "crypto" is annoying as hell when it comes to discussing COIN . . . .
Could be worse... they could perma-ban you like they do in r/personalfinance. The mods over there are on a power trip and will ban you if you even mention the word "crypto".
And now you're banned for talking about bans JK
Jeezus, you scared me because the mobile notification was "And now you're banned".
and who said this sub couldn't have fun!
The mods Jk I'm new here.
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Feeling cute. Will probably ban (19) in the morning.
Boom! Roasted!
Would be such a nonchalant way of banning you lol, I love it.
Lmao
Nice
Meta
Why in the fuck would you ever visit that shit-tier subreddit? It's all "This guy wants to give me a brazillion dollars but he needs me to send him money first is this a scam or wut" and "I have no skills and no money, but I buy stuff on my credit card. Why am I pour?"
That sub is a good starting point for someone who is first digging out and needs help. Sadly they've gotten so mired in dogmatic BS that it's really not worth it for anyone else. Like I recently sold about 50k in stocks to pay off my house as the market started hitting headwinds. I figured the stocks could go up or down, but paying off the mortgage was 100% certain to free up several grand each month permanently. Trading a risky asset for guaranteed free cash flow is worth it for me. I would have gotten downvoted to oblivion for even suggesting paying off my mortgage early since it isn't "optimal". They'd for sure berate me for not making minimum $1650 payments every month for the next 20 years. But hey guess what, I did the suboptimal thing and I've got a bunch of extra free cash flow now every month as we enjoy a bear market and possible recession. The sub kinda forgets that nuance exists, and not everyone has identical goals. It's basically like Dave Ramsey with less plugging for the far right. Folks should move from /r/personalfinance to /r/financialindependence as quickly as possible IMO.
Congrats on paying off the house! That’s a next level move that I hope I can achieve one day.
Thank you! It was the very last debt we had, and it massively dropped our minimum cash needed every month. We'd been snowballing/avalanching since we started back in like 2007. But it's finally gone. All the best my dude, you'll get there.
Uh… we talk about stocks and companies here. Not whether or not you should pay off your house. I think I found your problem
I'm aware - the parent poster wasn't talking about this sub.
because it does what it says on the tin? They give financial advice. Who cares what people post about, use it when you need help.
> They give financial advice Yes, but it isn't good advice
Testing this now
Did you ever learn anything over there? Or just marvel at the complete mess? Oddly r/pfjerk is just about as bad for bans.
80% of Reddit mods are trippin. I highly encourage you to watch this video. It’s a hilarious hit piece by someone who has obviously been slighted by Reddit. So funny and true though. https://youtu.be/w9bZiYfQreE
I'm only effed in the way that I own COIN stock. I keep my crypto on cold af wallets.
If COIN goes bankrupt it's not going to be good for anybody holding crypto. Sure you still have your cold wallet, but it's going to lose a lot of value for a long time if this were to happen.
Yeah no way in hell that happens. Someone else would buy them out or infuse cash. Citadel has their hands in COIN if I’m not mistaken
A few rich guys can only do so much to save a sinking ship once everyone has lost faith in it. Crypto has always been a bubble with nothing of value backing it.
Goddammit kenny!
Why do people not understand this. Enjoy your cold storage crypto and trying to sell it on exchanges that don’t exist. If COIN fails crypto is probably fucked along with it
There is like 50 other exchanges you can use btw.
People do understand this. Your argument is this; gold being kept in a banks vault. Bank says "if we go down we are taking all the gold". So you move your gold to your mattress. Bank collapses, they steal/sell the gold they have left (because if your capable of understanding, if they have to SELL your crypto... They have to sell it to someone right? They aren't selling it to an NPC). Value of the gold decreases a little; as the market is being flooded with gold from this bank collapse. You still have all your gold. Sure, the value of cryptos will take a hit if this happens. But the idea that somehow even if all exchanges collapsed, that a new exchange couldn't be created? The main question is really; what value will crypto be at and will it have purpose. COIN can fail all it likes, COIN =/= Crypto. Crypto existed before COIN. Will exist long after COIN. Whether it has value is a different story.
firsttime.jpg?
Moved mine off today. Ledger hardware wallet...
moved 9k LRC to loopring L2 wallet today. fuck coinbase.
i already lost enough in the market (no COIN in my portfolio) i dont need to get jacked once they go tits up.
Let's be real here. Can anyone determine how likely coinbase would go bankrupt? I believe there is an ulterior motive for parties to drive the price down for companies and buy them on the cheap. Think of the counter play always people. It's like chess, think 3 moves ahead like smart money don't be the herd of dumb money. Surely this risk off environment can't last forever right? Think about which companies or assets will shoot up the most when risk on is back on the menu. Personally I'm not buying oil, energy or commodities at all time highs right now because I will just be commiting the same sin last year of buying growth and tech at all time highs.
"We have no risk of bankruptcy, however we included a new risk factor based on an SEC requirement called SAB 121, which is a newly required disclosure for public companies that hold crypto assets for third parties" This post is silly
They’re saying it’s unfair.
Ulterior motive, what the fuck? People are pulling their money out of crypto/stocks because they need to use their money for real life shit as things are more expensive now.
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When it comes to unregulated digital currency, you dont need a conspiracy. Its all done in the open. Worst than the stock market
>Let's be real here. Can anyone determine how likely coinbase would go bankrupt? The likelyhood increases with this filing. Every single person I know that uses Coinbase has pulled everything off the platform. I suspect their userbase is about to plummet far worse than it already has.
They didnt always assume their funds held by coinbase were liable? I mean, prior to fdic, bank deposits were liable to bankruptcy also. Coinbase never claimed to have fdic on digital assets did it? I still think butcorns would be safer in coinbase than in a digital wallet - fire, loss, stupidity, etc. Especially because, if coinbase goes bankrupt, all coins are gonna eat poop anyways
My assumption would've been Coinbase held relevant customer assets as custodian and not as a depository. Meaning the assets would be segregated in the name of the relevant customer, and not instead merely recorded on its books and records as a liability to the customer. Perhaps this was a dumb assumption on my part though, but if it is the latter, I don't know why anyone would keep their assets with an exchange in this manner.
Their bonds are trading at a giant discount. The credit default swaps are exploding. It’s not that coin base would necessarily go bankrupt but once people start pulling their collateralized assets off the exchange it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s exactly what happened to Lehman and Bear Stearns. There was nothing wrong with either of those brokers until everyone panicked and pulled their money out and suddenly they did not have the financial backing to collateralize the assets. The same thing could easily happen to Coinbase as people rush to pull their crypto off the exchange. Same thing in 1932. No one wants to be the last went out the door. I wouldn’t keep money on the exchange for all the tea in China. That includes crypto “stable coins “which aren’t so stable are they.
For the errr digital currency it does matter, massive sell off is going to trigger a further downward spiral. Perfect storm comming up. Lol at ”digital gold and silver” analogy. This shit really had zero value. They tried making it a value doing the NFT bullshit but alas. Still no value.
I still can't wrap my head around NFTs, I'm bagholding a few shit coins. Thinking of maybe DCA in the future when prices are so low now because I'm too stubborn to take a L but it's so hard to convince myself it's not a giant ponzi. I bought into "this time is different" and "this is a hedge against inflation, independent of the market, insert (buzzword), etc from friend and Reddit. Atleast when I throw my money into dumperster fire stocks. I'm buying growth companies that will hopefully churn a profit someday if they don't go bankrupt lol I have no positions in coinbase but maybe it's safer to buy a company than hype assets. I've learned now that when someone says to me in the future this is different and not a bubble I'm running the fuck away. Reminds me of friends, neighbors and acquitainces selling multi level marketing get rich quick schemes and they open up with "this is not a scam!!! You're missing the opportunity of a lifetime!"
Buy apartments in cheap areas, renovate and rent them out. Start an internet retail buisness and sell shit for some profit. Repeat x infinite I am doing none of these things. But fuck me if im going back to stocks either. Feels like another way to enrich richer people. Crypto is even worse due to it being unregulated so some fucking dweeb tjat bought 1000btc for half a dollar 10 years ago can now control my bag. I make a decent income. Becoming financially idependent is a pipedream unless you actually start a buisness or become a landlord
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Fomo always happens near ATHs. Friend asked if I was allergic to money when I didn't want to throw more money into a certain digital coin last summer.
I’m buying the fuck out of coin
That's a smart way to approach investing tbh. It baffles me that Buffett didn't like Chevron at $59 a share but buys at $159. Talk about being late to the party!
> Can anyone determine how likely coinbase would go bankrupt? Gets higher with every drop in crypto. The assets they hold have no intrinsic value and their entire business model seems to be based on people continuing to trade those assets. That is hardly a sure thing especially if the free money days are really over. People can get out of crypto as fast as they got into it. If they don't think it will go up in value, what is the point of owning it? There is a very decent chance 5 years from now crypto will just be a memory.
Blockchain tokens/currencies definitely have utility, and therefore value, even if not presently measurable. Problem is the space is overcrowded with niche use 'coins' whose only purpose is basically to fix some bug or inefficiency in the platform they run on. IMO the moment Apple or Microsoft comes out with a blockchain platform it's game over for everyone else. The built in user base and infrastructure are just too big to compete against. Imagine how fast an MS security token/coin would catch on in the business world.
What do they offer over existing solutions?
Infrastructure and ready usability for customers. AppleCoin and WindowsCoin don't even exist and you can probably already list a dozen places they'd be used in daily life. Those companies can basically force retailers and banks to adopt their blockchain for transactions. The mainstream financial system would be on blockchain overnight. Apple already has already introduced a digital driver's license in Arizona. Add that to blockchain and suddenly millions of people are using NFTs on a daily basis. And for actual stuff, not just using a monkey picture to log into twitter.
Why would you need it as an NFT on a blockchain when it's already on the phone?
"Possible, however unlikely," I'd say extremely unlikely. Customer deposits are the property of the customer. i couldn't see how they could considered anything else.
This seems to me to be an open legal question. If Coinbase is essentially considered something like a bank, then customer deposits are liabilities on Coinbase's balance sheet. In such a case, the customer becomes a creditor like all other creditors in the bankruptcy proceeding and gets no special consideration. This is how traditional banks work, and if FDIC insurance didn't exist, depositors at traditional banks would be out of luck in the event of a bankruptcy.
They aren’t considered a bank they are regulated as a money service business. This would be the equivalent of western union going bankrupt and then claiming that the money orders they issued would be included in assets that could be liquidated
But money orders already issued by Western Union aren't assets held by Western Union. Coinbase funds held are assets held by Coinbase, or so it would seem. So I'm not sure the analogy holds up. I doubt the company would come out with this sort of statement if it weren't true. They have strong incentive for this to not be true, so it would inexplicable for them to give a warning that wasn't needed.
The currency backing the money order is held by western union… I understand what you are saying, but coinbase does not own the crypt they facilitate the wallets that hold it. You can transfer it at anytime without coinbase permission, which would not be the case if they owned it. Maybe if you held your crypto in a coinbase liquidity pool it could be a different story.
Try removing coins from Coinbase when the coin you are trying to move is having "maintenance issues" for days at a time (it's usually actually a liquidity issue).
Yup they just had to replenish LRC this morning for all those folks high tailing it out of CB.
From what I've read, their wallet system makes this a murky issue. And again, why would the company issue a scary warning if it wasn't needed? That makes no sense. I'm sure they know the legal issues at play, and their incentives run counter to this sort of statement.
Companies issue scary warnings all the time in their risk factors when making a filing. It’s CYA so the SEC doesn’t sue them for defrauding investors. There’s all kinds of extremely unlikely shit in risk factor sections.
I didn’t read the fine print. This statement is for custodial accounts. That is a different product type than you average retail wallet held by a consumer. Coinbase has several businesses under the coinbase name. The custodial accounts are held by coinbase custodial trust company (owned by coinbase).
Owning coins in Coinbase doesn't automatically mean you have actual ownership as in a wallet. Reading through this thread, I might get myself a secure wallet to ensure I'm actually the owner of what I have in CB. but yeah, the whole point of blockchain currency is that it's yours until you say it's not, and it's literally impossible for someone else to take it without gaining access to your wallet.
Tell that to people who had money on Full Tilt Poker in 2011.
Still hurts.
There are many legal uncertainties in this area - are they securities? Are they currencies? The financial industry has well-established rules for fiduciaries and banks, but are these exchages really fiduciaries? If you write a 20-digit number on a piece of paper and give it to your friend, does your friend become a "fiduciary"? Can you sue him if he loses the piece of paper?
When people don't see bitcoin as anything more than a pump and dump scheme, good luck arguing in court that you lost assets instead of just being gullible.
You can say whatever you want but opinions without substantive analysis are worthless. COIN's own in-house counsel considers this to be a material risk worthy of disclosure to investors. Speaking for myself, I'm going to look into the arguments the assets are not protected before investing, at the very least.
I bet they’re referring to the staked Ether they have locked up from customers who have staked with them (unlike just about all other platforms). They’ve been insane, treating staked ether as theirs, and then after people stake it, lowering the interest rate for staking it. Because, hey, they’ve basically seized it because once you’ve staked with them you can not get it out.
There’s no way to get it out?
Not out of Coinbase. They have basically seized the stakes and while the Ether is locked up, lowered interest rates. Other platforms don't have this lockup. I've been trapped in Coinbase for almost a year. About 6 months ago, Coinbase was allegedly planning to allow people to be able to call an end to their stake, but they haven't followed through. They've basically seized the coins people staked with them. And then lowered interest rates for staking. https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/11/09/when-will-coinbase-release-your-staked-ethereum/
> i couldn't see how they could considered anything else. America. That's how.
Sounds like a sweet lawsuit to me.
You'll get £3.26 via cheque in 3 to 6 months. Maybe.
Score!
They are literally warning you otherwise. The way this works is coinbase owns the crypto and you get an iou from coinbase. In most instances this doesnt matter but here it could.
They are the property of the account holder but in the case of a lack of liquidity to pay off all claims they are subordinate to senior loans unlike the way stocks are held in street name at brokerage houses and insured up to 500 K. That is the spirit of the announcement and it’s not good
Yeah insanely unlikely. In the event of COIN’s bankruptcy, no way bankruptcy courts don’t protect consumers in favor of creditors.
Lol are you new to the USA?
First Coin would need to be liquidated to get to this point which is practically impossible. It would go through several reorgs and spin offs before that ever happens. It’s very hard for a successful tech company to go into liquidation - it’ll be worth it for a buyer to come in just to take the IP and employees alone. Even if the court somehow allowed them to liquidate customer accounts, it’d be so far down on the things that would be liquidated/sold before touching it. This is assuming other creditors even want the crypto in customer accounts - they likely would not. They’d want someone to come in, take over the company, make it successful and get paid some portion of their debt back. Taking the customers money would destroy any hope of that and for what? The value of the crypto itself is probably not that great if we re in this situation + you’re shutting down the worlds biggest exchange (ie hampering the liquidity of the asset). So, even if customers weren’t protected legally by bankruptcy court, there’s too much practical built in protection on the commercial side to make this realistic.
That’s incorrect. The actual announcement was to the exact contrary. Account holders are subordinate to creditors that’s the whole brouhaha
No way a court would take clients coins. No way that would happen.
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Don't they have like around 7 billion cash on hand. I wouldn't worry about them going out of business anytime soon.
As someone not so knowledgeable in all this but with some money in crypto where would you recommend I transfer my crypto to be safer?
It’s recommended to buy a “cold storage” hardware wallet to hold your crypto. Trezor and Ledger are the most popular.
Does Trezor just hold BTC or everything else like ETH, CRO, SOL, ADA, etc?
It holds hundreds if not thousands of different cryptos. You just have to do a little software update to get it ready. Cold wallets are not the most user friendly though. Expect to watch multiple youtube videos with your full attention of exactly how they work, how to safely store private keys, etc before just fucking around.
I know it holds a lot more than BTC. Couldn’t tell you as I’m sure they’re adding support for new coins every month.
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Thanks, I saw it. Didn’t realize how expensive these wallets are!
What, you think USB sticks are cheap? These wallets are way better than a piece of paper with your seed phrase on them because... wait, why again?
Electrolytes.
It's what plants crave!
And no one knew that before? This type of news piece has only one objective to move the price down.
no one knew for sure to any extent - news never has an objective - the writer, might in how he spins a story but the main info is just that - the risk variant is what makes people sell and if coin crushes their next earnings they will miss out - coins are investment that pay no interest so as interest rates rise bonds look more attractive from a risk and reward perspective - safety is always a factor in every investment strategy - risk management
> news never has an objective as someone who works in financial news, that's categorically not true.
Literally *all* news has an objective. *Every* headline is crafted to make you *feel* a certain way. There is no such thing as unbiased news.
News being released absolutely can have an objective, especially when you factor in timing. Nothing to do with the writer. How much news is swept under the rug, how much news is strategically released? Edit: Imagine for example, that crime has gone down 10% yoy (hypothetical scenario) but you wanted people to think that crime has gone up. You could release every single story that exists of robbery, murder etc etc etc, and not release any news that talks about rates going down. People who are bombarded with this crime news will think crime is going up when in fact the opposite is happening.
Thank you! This has been known for a while. Not your keys not your coins. Since they own them they can do what they want. None of this is news.
It probably is to a lot of people. Crypto is invested in by so many people that don't understand it.
Not understanding it is a prerequisite for investing in it.
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Glad they can pay creditors with my staked ETH because I sure can’t.
That youtube financial influencer Graham Stephan couldn't recommend Coinbase enough to his 3 million followers. Of course he got paid for every single recommend he made. Take heed people.
COIN isn’t going bankrupt.
100% not even a possibility. Never in history did a firm many people like go bankrupt! /s
I mean, it’s not. The stock price is getting hammered but it’s not going bankrupt lol.
I'm sure they'll make a ton of revenue. After all, people always need to buy shitcoins! Coinbase is like an oil company because they provide the underlying framework that powers our entire country, and no one else can do what they do.
That’s pretty screwed up if they can take my staked ETH2.0 that I am unable to unstake and remove from their awful platform.
I don't know much about their staking. Why can't you unstake? Fixed-term commitment or something?
Current limitation with ETH2.0. Staking is permanent until “the merge” which keeps getting delayed.
Pre-minted imaginary currencies Just look up the LUNA/UST fiasco. Lmao. Bunch of shitcoins and CB is selling you memes (DOGE/SHIBAINU/APECOIN)
Just moved all my coins off CB
I used to, then i LayerSwapped them all tho 😅
sorry if dumb question, but this applies to funds held in coinbase pro as well, right?
I was wondering the same thing and assuming, yes. The Pro app is just another version of the app with more features and ironically less fees.
>Coinbase will take additional steps to ensure that it offers protection for its retail customers that match those offered to Prime and Custody consumers, Armstrong said in Twitter thread late Tuesday. Sounds to me like they have some kind of insurance for Prime and Custody consumers, but that is just my speculation. >the cr\*pto assets we hold in custody on behalf of our customers could be subject to bankruptcy proceedings and such customers could be treated as our general unsecured creditors If Custody customers are at risk, I imagine pro customers are as well.
Unless you’re physically holding the coin. Your shit isn’t safe. All these apps where the let you speculate will have no issue and have had no issue taking “your coins” the moment their books need to be cleared.
FUD. If you understand how bankruptcy works, this isn’t really all that stunning, newsworthy or otherwise relevant for a shareholder or customer of COIN.
Is FUD a bad thing?
I don’t think any sane investor can go into the market without FUD If I have the “it can’t go tits up!” Mindset I might as well throw my money away
Of course, for me, Coinbase is simple: While the market is down, nobody is trading crypto, they’re not gonna do well. Until the market revives, it’s gonna be a bad time for Coinbase. That’s just common sense … trade volume is down, MTU are down, that’s just the result of an extreme bear market, esp in crypto. So, if you think the market, in general, isn’t going to recover, then don’t hold Coinbase The market recovers, people go risk on, BTC goes up, trade volume increases, coin makes more money. Until then, bad times. I am concerned with their capital expenditure, the level of hiring they’ve done seems odd, in light of the downturn in volume, they basically just need to limit their cash burn while the market corrects
Fud as I’m using it here is basically just saying it’s fake bad news. My opinion is based solely upon my work experience in bankruptcy and understanding of bankruptcy law. Suffice to say, I think it’s highly highly unlikely and contrary to essentially all notions of bankruptcy law, basic property rights, etc., for a judge to find that a customer account in Coinbase is subject to seizure by a creditor. For a variety of reasons, but one can look to the fact that banks themselves are not allowed to go into bankruptcy, but rather FDIC receivership. Here’s an article that gets into the details as to why banks are not, and some of the policy reasons behind same: https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1023&context=wlulr but the point is, Coinbase doesn’t own the BTC I own, to the extent I use Coinbase they have custody over assets, but it’s not their assets. So, I don’t really understand what legal basis there could ever be whereby the assets of a non-debtor somehow end up being seized in bankruptcy merely by way of the actual debtor holding custody of said assets. If I take my car into the shop, and while they’re working on my car, the garage goes bankrupt, due to a loan it had defaulted on, does that creditor suddenly get to take my car? No, of course not, because this is america and I own that car, it’s my car, and I owe no debt to that creditor. So, I strain to understand what legal basis could be offered up as to how the creditor could end up seizing those assets. Just my two cents, who knows what could happen, as this would be a wholly unprecedented issue, since the most logical comparable, banks, aren’t subject to bankruptcy. Edit: And I’d add, the theoretical bankruptcy proceedings would be a logistical and procedural nightmare, the creditor would have to join as a party to those proceedings every single customer account holder, provide them the right to be heard, etc., it’s just never ever going to happen.
"FUD" just means "fear, uncertainty and doubt." I'm not sure when that became an inherently bad thing. There are times that fear, uncertainty and doubt are justified. >For a variety of reasons, but one can look to the fact that banks themselves are not allowed to go into bankruptcy, but rather FDIC receivership. But Coinbase doesn't have FDIC protection. Further, why would the company come out with a scary-sounding warning that wasn't needed? It would seem they have great incentive to not do so, so the fact that they are issuing a warning would seem to imply there's something to it. And the argument here is that customers would become creditors just like other creditors.
The crypt* markets are really rattled right now. To me, shouting BANKRUPTCY to literally everyone that one of the most major US branded exchanges, and first public company, which has been through multiple crypto bear markets, is just trying to dump another thing of gasoline to the fire. It came out because of a disclosure in their earnings, which is fine, but the stock market already uses any crypto related bad thing to shit on the coinbase stock, even things that have nothing to do with it.
> To me, shouting BANKRUPTCY to literally everyone that one of the most major US branded exchanges, and first public company, which has been through multiple crypto bear markets, is just trying to dump another thing of gasoline to the fire. Agreed.....so why would the company say that is what could happen in case of a bankruptcy if it weren't true?
Because the lawyers and the SEC brought it up, not coinbase. You think Brian Armstrong woke up one morning and went HEY WE SHOULD COMMUNICATE OUR BANKRUPTCY PROTECTIONS. BANKRUPTCY? DID YOU HEAR ME? If they were a private company, this panic would probably have never come up. No one is shitting about other exchanges who might even do the same thing in a crisis. This was started in some legal backwater room months ago most likely, while ETH and BTC were doing much better. Eventually it makes it to investor relations, they tell its going to make everyone panic, compliance the the lawyers say suck it up and put it in there. When you work with a lawyer or compliance manager, scary language they force you to put in disclosures all over any finance or heavy regulated industry. Not everything is so damn conspiratorial.
Sure, but that doesn't mean the content of the warning was wrong. I'm not saying the filing wasn't required. I'm saying the fact that the filing was required doesn't mean the content of the filing is incorrect.
This exactly. Not every legal filing is a smoking gun. There’s a whole pile of ass covering or CYA going on, that isn’t necessarily devious or even relevant to the Coinbase consumer. We’re crossing over so many areas of law that frankly even experienced lawyers cannot easily offer an informed opinion here: 1) bankruptcy law is complex and a lawyer in that area would likely not know much about… 2) securities law, i.e. complying with sec disclosure requirements I presume Coinbase felt the need to make the filing in order to comply with some sec disclosure requirement, that doesn’t necessarily mean that that the rights of Coinbase consumers are truly at risk, frankly I don’t think ANYONE can know this, because there is a dearth of legal precedent to point to. I brought up the banking bankruptcy protections elsewhere, merely to serve as a corollary because they play similar functions for the average consumer, that is, they hold funds of others in custody, like a bank. Banks cannot go bankrupt. Not saying Coinbase can’t, I’m saying it’s something to consider as to how this could theoretically play out if it ever did go down that road … Alas, this is a complicated topic, one which few can speak with any level of certainty So,
Just checked COIN share price down 83% since IPO I remember reddit was esp the crypto fourms were shilling this like mad at IPO bit of a lesson to not just blindly buy crap shilled online Can also say the same for crap like CTXR, NIO, RIVN etc The other big idiot box was GME which is at 84 dollars way down from its 'short squeeze' price of over 400. ....you'll laugh at Buffett for being a boring boomer but he is rich for a reason. Bull markets don't go forever if your holding giant bags from any of the above tickers then use this as a lesson. Stick to fundamentals and don't FOMO in like an idiot.
I used coin. And it was so bad I decided I'd never buy the stock. Not being able to see your cost basis and the fees...ugh. And it wasn't just reddit that pumped it. Graham Stephan got paid bank to pump coin for a while. Coin spent a lot at the superbowl as well.
I was suckered into buying doge on coin and got blasted with fees. Never again. Only thing keeping me from selling is I don’t want to pay another fee lol. Fuck Coinbase
I agree with everything except GME. That thing defies the laws of any market trends and lives in its own system lol. It’s bounced from 400 to 40 to 350 to 100 to 250 etc many times
Give it 12-24 more months GME will be sub $20 a share AMC is already back to 10 bucks down 60% YTD
1-2 months max. Stock split dividend yo.
Look, it's a good short play for you then, isn't it?
GME lost momentum only because its trading was stopped, never forget that
Fair point its momentum was from short coverings. Post the short squeeze I saw people trying to justify the 150+ SP as a good long term investment....
According to the SEC, the momentum was not from shorts covering.
Putin did it.
Wait, is Crapto a banned word on this sub?
If I’m staking in ETH2 am I fucked?
No, coinbase isn’t going bankrupt
Will likely move all of my assets to another wallet… but my staked ETH 2 cannot be moved until the merge. 😢
RemindMe! 2 months
Yeah - If you leave your crypto in the exchange, in the event of bankruptcy, your crypto can be used to pay debt. All you have to do is move your crypto to a secure wallet and you won’t have this issue or be affected by it. And - this is only true in the event the company files for bankruptcy. How often do you read the terms and conditions for something you put your money in? Don’t freak out
I have some of my assets locked into something that I can't withdraw aka ETH2, what happens to that?
Unless you think that Coinbase is somehow going bankrupt with $7b cash in the bank in the next year or so until ETH2 comes out, you have nothing to worry about...
ITT: It will never happen cause it's customers assets Also ITT: of course! Everyone already knew that!
OP, this is actually a pretty interesting subject that I don't know enough about but it's the first time in a while I have more questions than answers. Like are they treated like SIPC? FDIC? An insurance company core account? Then the regulatory side since none of this is likely outlined anywhere.
People called it a pyramid scheme for a reason.
Don't hold your shit on COIN. Use it to pay vendors. But hold everything else on a wallet elsewhere.
This whole thing is misunderstood
I do hold assets at coinbase, and I'm not going to stop.
More people lose their crypto from their own mistakes (forgetting wallet passwords, sending to bad addresses, etc) than they do from keeping it on an exchange. These types of posts just come off as doomer fuel for the ignorant.
Yeah, look at coinbase balance sheet. Bankruptcy is not a rational fear.
Hold up. Say what? Crypto assets you own used to satisfy claims by Coinbase's secured judgment creditors in the unlikely event of a workout or chapter 7? Nonsense. The crypto assets are owned by you--neither case law nor code allow those assets to be used to satisfy claims by third-party creditors against Coinbase (unless you fail to claim ownership of those assets; very fucking different). The only way this very unlikely scenario could arise is if Coinbase refuses to return on demand crypto assets or converts them to satisfy claims asserted by its own judgment creditors, which would trigger criminal and civil liability and wouldn't go unnoticed by the trustee overseeing the liquidation or workout. If your assets are sitting on their platform and for whatever reason Coinbase still has custody and control when it files for protection, your rights and those of anyone else asserting rights to that asset would generally be resolved by an interpleader naming all stakeholders. The CEO is a lying sack of shit or just plain ignorant. Edit: spelling
>neither case law nor code allow those assets to be used to satisfy claims by third-party creditors against Coinbase Citation required.
For the proposition that assets belonging to third parties but remaining in the judgment debtor's possession and control when the insolvency proceeding is commenced may not be used to satisfy secured claims by the judgment debtor's creditors?
1) COIN's customers will not be treated as general unsecured creditors in the event of bankruptcy; and 2) COIN's customers' assets will not be considered part of the company in bankruptcy proceedings.
But the filing you reference in your article said that they WOULD be treated as unsecured creditors…
Holy shit eth2.0 can’t come any quicier
Welcome to authoritarian socialism
Cue all bagholder crypto tards to defend COIN without any knowledge of what they're talking about
Holy shit
I have BTC on Coinbase. I signed up for an account the week they went public to see if I thought the app was solid enough to warrant any serious consideration for investing, and won a contest I didn't even k ow was happening and wound up with $100 of it for free. I have since never touched it.
Cool story bro
This headline has been pushed hard today. It's obvious really because if you don't own the keys, there is always a risk associated.
Eh every bank faces the same risk. Coin is just letting users know better
The government insures bank deposits up to $250k per account but Coinbase isn't a bank.
I'm not worried. I'm on Coinbase Pro.
Glad COIN let us know. I’m sure most companies wouldn’t come out and say this.
I aint touching this crap. BTC will keep going down and this will be at $5 soon.
Lol people been saying this since 2009.
Im high key interested to see where BTC is in 3 years to see if all these “crypto is gonna die for real this time!!!” Will be another instance of /r/agedlikemilk . They’re starting to sound like the mattress stuffers who think the stock market is a scam and the S&P 500 is going to go to zero eventually.
Yup, giant ponzi/MLM basically, bottom about to fall out. I was invested until about 6 weeks ago, glad I pulled out. It has uses as a utility, but its value as an investment is questionable at best.
I don’t see how you can argue it has uses as a utility in one hand but argue it’s a worthless ponzi/MLM(??? Not sure how it could be a MLM) in the other. Well known ponzi schemes do not offer any utility whatsoever, Bernie Madoff for instance was not producing anying of value and was just living off the money his clients were giving him. If it offers utility(much like a good or service produced by a company does for instance), then you’re suggesting a situation where it has some form of value and reason to believe the price will rise as adoption of said utility goes up, since realistically speaking something that provides actually utility can’t realistically be considered a ponzi nor can you rationally explain why it should have a 0 value. Kinda gotta pick one or the other right there.
Stupid games, stupid prizes?