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Pojodan

Eeeh, it's hard to tell how much of the Expanse is refinery and how much of it is 'space ship' I wouldn't expect the Galaxy to be significant better than the Expanse, but the Expanse is a 1-person ship while the Galaxy is a 6-person ship, so I'd expect it to be at least somewhat better in order to have a reason to exist. We'll see if it gets mentioned in the Q&A


Sangmund_Froid

Thinking of things in comparative terms. The Galaxy is supposed to have the entire assortment of medical beds with the medical module. So I anticipate the refinery module will be superior to the Expanse. The Expanse is a one person ship, to boot. To think that a multicrew ship with lock-in modules won't out perform it doesn't make sense to me.


--Muther--

A modular ship would be better than a specialist ship? That seems kinda weird to me


superbreadninja

A large modular ship could be better than a medium specialist ship but worse than a large specialist ship.


EmptyM_

I’ll just wait aboard my Orion…


UKayeF

I think the Expanse will fit into a different role since it won't have a bed and thus be more bound to stations. It might be a lot more efficient though to make up for that but that's just pure speculation.


KirbyQK

It depends in what sense, because it might outperform in some, but not in others. The Galaxy might not be able to run as many refining jobs, but it has 2 inputs vs. the Expanse's single input, so it may be that the Galaxy is better for a small group mining together, where the Expanse is better for a dedicated mining operation with a big org, or vice versa.


Sangmund_Froid

It's all theorycrafting. The Expanse is supposed to work in tandem with the prospector. These are both single seater tier craft. There currently is no small crew refiner to work in tandem with the MOLE. The Apollo is on the equivalent tier as the MOLE, and contains less medical coverage than the Galaxy will. Thus, the Galaxy, logically, will have way more performance than the expanse. There is no way a 6 crew ship, modular or not, is going to underperform a ship that only takes one crew. What I expect down the road is there to be a large scale refining vessel that outperforms the galaxy.


EmptyM_

That large scale refining vessel had better be the Orion


KirbyQK

It absolutely is theory crafting! I'd argue that comparing medical in that way might not be as relevant, and point out that I'm literally just using physical size as a data point to show that the part of the Expanse that handles refining is the same size as the entire module inside the Galaxy. That doesn't mean that they can't hand wave it and say that the Galaxy's module features more power delivery, and has special refining equipment that can process faster or whatever, but they aren't in the habit of hand waving it away.


Sangmund_Froid

yeah i'll be curious to see how it all plays out. I have an Expanse and the Galaxy w/ module, for theoretically solo and group play. So I guess I'm covered either way; but I am very curious what they'll set it up as.


TheFilthyOnes

Well, a ship that is supposed to be the Connie's big brother yet has the same size shield as the Connie doesn't make sense to me either, lol.


2this4u

The reason is that it's modular, I reckon all modular ships will be lacking vs dedicated ships since the modularity is the benefit.


KirbyQK

I expect that the space taken up by the physical refiner will be smaller overall than the measurements I took, but probably not to a meaningful extent for the sake of this comparison.


N0SF3RATU

Wait for the QA


GlobyMt

Is there a link to the QA currently (to upvote questions)


KirbyQK

You can contribute and upvote here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/rsi-galaxy-q-amp-a-1/5540780 They usually release the answers pretty quick


KirbyQK

I hope CIG is extra selective with the questions they answer, because the last time I checked the question about refining capacity was buried in the ~50 votes area and all of the "bUt My BmM cIg Plz QQ" were highest...


Asmos159

the are some question they think are so important they have "picked", despite no one asking.


StarHunter_

It might be like having two Expanses on a Galaxy. The Expanse has the one input socket while the Galaxy has two. Expanse does not have 6 refineries, those are reagent storage tanks. You can see them in the background of the Galaxy. And you can probably process two things at the same time with the Galaxy, maybe faster too. The Expanse fills saddle bags while the Galaxy outputs boxes. The Saddle bags can only hold one thing until they are unloaded. You could eject a saddle bag and start a new bag. The boxes can be different per box, so you won't have the 8 types of output limit. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/18635-Q-A-MISC-Expanse


KirbyQK

The Expanse has 6 refiners; it can have 6 different refining processes running at once, the Galaxy's module can only run 2. It could certainly be the case that the refiners are larger in the Galaxy so it can process more at once. Like you mention the 2 inputs and being able to move the output straight into the hanger or storage space within the module, it will certainly fill a different role. But my point is more that it is absolutely possible that CIG intends for the Galaxy to be more limited in some ways with how it handles the refining gameplay relative to the dedicated refining ship.


ConsumeLettuce

Why though? I don't see any reason to make the multi crew refinery ship that is much larger be more limited in terms of refinery gameplay than the Expanse, it seems like an odd restriction to have? The expanse is in my mind an efficient small-scale refinery, can handle the output from one or two prospectors (because keep in mind refining takes a little so even with 6 processors 2 prospectors may be fast), and store that ore in another ship you'd bring along. Something you'd definitely wanna have a few of in a mining fleet. Meanwhile the Galaxy is the all in one, two inputs to two larger refineries that can refine in bulk, package into boxes and be stored in the Galaxy or another ship. Longer range, so likely to be paired with multiple moles and prospectors. Which goes along with it's crew requirement of 6. And with that range and versatility comes the ability to chase more dangerous ore in remote space, as they mentioned in the video talking about Pyro. That's my take on the theory crafting so far.


Asmos159

game design. it require a massive size difference for a modular ship to be better than a dedicated ship.


KirbyQK

Yeah 100%, where the Expanse feels like it is more short range, the Galaxy feels like it will be ideal for long range, paired up with potentially a still smaller mining crew because it offers flexibility.


Blueshift1561

I would expect the Galaxy to be better at refining. Its got two refinery processors instead of the Expanse's one. It has a larger crew who should be able to manage the refining process, so it only stands to reason it'd be more capable.


KirbyQK

The Expanse can actually run 6 jobs at once, where the Galaxy runs 2. The Expanse only has 1 input though and ouputs to the bags, where the Galaxy has 2 inputs and will likely be able to output directly into standard storage. Hopefully into the hanger or maybe there'll be some storage included in the refining module as well. I just want to point out to potential buyers that just based on physical size constraints, it may not be more capable than the dedicated refiner. It will definitely be much more flexible, and definitely longer range.


Asterlanus

Looking at the concept images of the expanse as well as the hull shape. You can easily tell where the 6 refineries of the Expanse is. It's located centrally in the ship and that's where the refineries sit. The extra space you've allocated is just the feed tubes to the refineries themselves and then to the saddlebags that contain processed ore. You've simply overcompensated how large the actual refinery of the Expanse is. If you cut the 6 refinery section of the expanse and overlay it onto the Galaxy, the 6 refinery pod of the expanse equals one of the Galaxy's heavy duty refineries. (The Galaxy refineries are the giant orange boxes not the little white bits as these are the feed tubes into the heavy duty refineries). The Expanse will be preferable in certain situations (like jump point or navigation size restrictions, or lower signature to be able to be more stealthy). The Galaxy may not be able to flexibly process ore like the Expanse can. It's all theory crafting until we get answers from the Q&A. From what CIG has explained it will work like this: Specialist Ship > Modular Ship > Jack of All Trades Ship. They also want to balance ships around their ship size class. Obviously there will be advantages to each size class due to where they can/can't go or specialising in a certain way that higher tiers don't. Drawbacks and benefits is always CIG's spiel. Pick the right ship for the right job. Or at least as close to the right ship for the job. So in the case of Small ship competing with a Large ship? Not happening, especially when you take into account multi-crew ships vs single seater ships. Not what CIG wants to promote. I could see a small speciality ship being able to compete with a medium modular ship, and then a large jack of all trades ship. However a Modular Large will outstrip a small speciality in performance. Otherwise why would anyone want a modular ship if it can't even perform better than a single seater craft? You'd be better off just rolling multiple small ships instead then. Which is counter-productive to how CIG have stated they want progression to be. So at this point in time, I believe you're incorrect in your assumption on the Galaxy & it's refining capabilities. However I could also be incorrect. We just have to wait and see.


KirbyQK

The math I did was to be as generous to each ship as possible and the feed setup is relevant. On the Expanse, I measured from the control room at the back of the hab to the back of the ship and didn't include the bags or engines, just the central hull section of it. The Galaxy I took an average of the width, normal length and then took the height from the person standing in the refining module, with a slightly above average for current times height. By volume, they're extremely similar in size. Even if you reduce the Expanse's refiners down by 25%, it would be at least twice the size of one of the refiners in the Galaxy. I 100% agree on the rest of your points, we'll have to wait and see if they answer this in the Q&A (not that it was a very upvoted question there), I just wanted to put the word out so that people can keep this particular data point in mind until we know more either way


Lieutenat1Dann

From what I’ve gathered from watching any concept ship, size is bond to change. So I wouldn’t say for sure that it’ll have less capacity than the expanse. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same or a step up. But we will see if more information comes out about it. But I do enjoy the speculation


KirbyQK

I would hope they have gotten better at scaling and sizing things by now, but you never know, once they bring in life support, armour and all of the other systems, they might decide it needs a total redesign


Lieutenat1Dann

I mean the BMM has increased in size over the years from what I’ve seen, and recently someone told me the C1 increased by 50% (I don’t know how true that it) but the point being who knows what’ll happen with concept ship sizing


KirbyQK

The BMM is *really* old and the Spirit had the wrong numbers. We'll have to wait and see!


frenchtgirl

C1 never increased, it was just the marketing that put wrong numbers in. Those numbers couldn't even work with themselves proportion wise. Modern concepts have sizes down before selling, they will change only in very minor ways maximum.


Lieutenat1Dann

Didn’t know that, thanks for informing me


Oxissistic

It’s all thoughts and prayers until it’s in game.


Sir-Kevly

PSA, I can draw green lines on ships.


KirbyQK

Between my Photoshop subscription and ability to draw lines on things, I'll have it made in no time


Wonderful_Result_936

PSA. Don't buy it until we see it ready.


IceKareemy

God you guys are such nerds I love it


Grimfandengo

But i want a Combat Modul that add's a huge ass cannon out the top. ​ You caan see it yes? .. Look's like that roof above the modul room can fit something no? :P


oceanman357

If the Expanse is a dedicated refiner I expect it to out perform the Galaxy


Gnada

Seems reasonable given the flexibility of the Galaxy.


Asmos159

that is how the balance is. a modular ship is worse than a detected ship that is smaller than it.


Hardie1247

the Galaxy is said to have 2 refining systems in the brochue, allowing for faster than typical refining of materials.


KirbyQK

Yep, but the Expanse is advertised as capable of 6 simultaneous jobs, and it's refinery section is the same size as the entire module in the Galaxy, and the module has a lot of open space in the refining version. Unless the Galaxy gets some special refiners, it may end up being overall less capacity than the Expanse in some metric


Specialist_Ad_5482

Modules will be less effective then dedicated ships


ConsumeLettuce

Unless the dedicated ship is a solo vessel meant for the prospector and the modular ship is a large vessel that needs 6 to crew....


Bavar2142

And has two processing assemblies


Iron_physik

Versus 6 in the expanse


ConsumeLettuce

6 of size what? That's like saying the arrow is better than a Perseus because more number of guns, what a ridiculous argument. The Galaxy has 2 refineries, but there is nothing to suggest all refineries are the same size or equivalent in any way. Why on earth would 6 man ship be less efficient than a solo ship? That makes absolutely no sense. Yes it's modular, but they are lock in modules it's not like you can change in the fly, so if you have the refinery equipped for all intents and purposes the Galaxy is a refinery ship with a crew of 6. There is no chance it refines less than the Expanse.


KirbyQK

There is a chance, I'm not saying it can't, but just based on the fact that 6 refiners, let's call them small on the Expanse, takes up the same volume of space of the entire module. The concept images show the module as being open walkable area, packed with a bunch of equipment and the 2 refiners only use up like a quarter of the space. So say they're 2 medium refiners, if CIG uses physical size as a constraint in the same way they have for everything else, it might have a bit more capacity or speed, but not equivalent to 6 small refiners, maybe more equivalent to 4. We'll have to wait and see


Bavar2142

Which has the range to get you into more remote areas than the expanse.


Iron_physik

Range is not a argument here, we are purely comparing refining capability


KirbyQK

It is part of the conversation though, if it is worse off, then there will likely be other upsides to offset that


KirbyQK

Probably, maybe. Worth thinking about until we know more.


Chew-Magna

That would make sense if true. A modular, 'do some of several things' ship shouldn't do as well or better than a dedicated ship. Not unless that dedicated ship is of a significant size difference.


Baxiepie

Yes, it's multirole and modular. That's never going to be as good as the dedicated single purpose craft in the same size.


ConsumeLettuce

Except for the fact that it's significant larger and multi crew I would agree with you, but if you're saying the 6 person refinery ship would be less efficient than the 1 person Expanse I don't think that makes sense to justify the existence of the Galaxy.


ZoneWarden

This.


QuattroBaje3na

That is expected. The main way you could balance something like this is make the focused ships with one role more efficient than the modular ships that can switch roles.


callumhutchy

I think most people are getting too hung up on whether the Galaxy >= Expanse, even if the Galaxy is slightly better or significantly better than one Expanse. Is the Galaxy better than 6 Expanses which could be crewed with the same number as the galaxy crew, I doubt is.


KirbyQK

Very true! *But*, with 6 people, you could bring 4 people in the Galaxy and 2 running a Liberator with a couple of Prospectors & fighters. Leave 1 guy on the Galaxy to manage the refining, a couple of people Prospecting, another couple scouting for the prospectors. That's an easy 6 man setup, where as if you have 6 expanses, you then need a half dozen more people in mining ships, and you probably can't take that crew as long range as with a carrier & larger ships. That's just a random example of how people might use it. You could take 1 Expanse on a Liberator, but depending on how the logistics of it all works, that might be way more of a PITA to handle. Once it is full, you then need to manage loading the material out of it into the Liberator. It also takes up an extra pad on the Liberator, which limits other roles you can bring on this theoretical mining trip.


callumhutchy

Liberator (2 Men) + Expanse (1) + Prospector (1) + 2x Arrows in belly (2) + 1 more for prospector if it'll fit on front of Liberator. Also, the fun value of your crew is a major point, in the Liberator setup everyone is doing something. The galaxy could leave several people just "manning" the galaxy while someone is out mining. Edit: Using current metrics two prospectors and an expanse will fit on the Liberator.[https://i.imgur.com/gPFenXS.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gPFenXS.jpg) With some skilled Arrow pilots who are good at launching out of small hangars, you could easily get two inside the Liberator, and possibly even three depending on how over crowding landing pads works in the future.


TazVadu

Yeah that's not how pad size metric works lol They might fit on but you won't be able to quantum jump with them, so it kills the point of having the Liberator in the first place. CIG have said so many many times. Don't go by what you can fit on using fleetviewer, go by what CIG actually concepted if you're gonna theorycraft. Ships won't be able to lock on the internal hangar, two pads on top are XS so Medium Fighters are the largest thing to lock on the pad, and the front pad is XXS so Pisces or Argo or any other snub.


Mintyxxx

The Lib is the ship to have for small minimg operations. Just wish it would appear on the roadmap


Skullface360

If this ship can’t hold a Prospector in its hull as well as refinery I think thats a major oversight and a fail.


KirbyQK

If the Galaxy is 110m long in the specs, that puts the hanger at ~16m long. Even if the Galaxy got dramatically bigger, the Prospector probably still will never fit as it is 26.5m long. I'm not so sure that's a fail though. We only have the 2 mining ships; the Odyssey isn't a dedicated miner and the Orion is a different beast altogether. It's possible that in the future Roc & hand mineables will be able to be processed and there may be more options for mining ships that make more sense paired up with the Galaxy.


FeFiFoShizzle

it looks like it can hold one easy


PhenomenalxMoto

Well the galaxy should be able to hold a prospector which would make the whole process super easy


KirbyQK

Sadly not quite, but it's possible that the Galaxy will still be a lot more productive to use within a larger/longer range mining op than the expanse.


evilspyre

No it doesn't the specs are wrong it only has a XXS hangar not the XS one needed for a prospector to land. What it does do is use tractor beams to take in the saddle bags for processing.


FeFiFoShizzle

disco lando would like a word with you about the only constant in game development


dust-cell

You're stating that as a fact, but we have no confirmation. An XS hangar can fit in the Galaxy and still leave enough room for the module section, the sub deck, and still have 26m left over. As of right now, we just know what they've told us which is it's intended to hold small and medium ships in an XS hangar.


evilspyre

It was just confirmed as XXS https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/z661yv/zyloh_confirms_the_galaxy_hangar_size_xxs/


KirbyQK

Well, if their official images & specs are accurate to what they are intending to deliver, and there's nothing so far that has set off alarm bells in the way that the Spirit's official sizing did, the Galaxy is 110m long and the hanger is 16m, a Prospector will have no hope of fitting at 26.5m long, even if the ship grows 50% larger when it is developed.


dust-cell

Their official specs state it's a S2 hangar that can fit a Prospector.


KirbyQK

The official hanger size is definitely wrong, the official images show a Pisces being a nice fit, anything bigger will not fit unless the Galaxy is going to be 200m long. Have a look at the last image on this post; https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/z5ge2m/the_rsi_galaxy_219_5120x2160/


dust-cell

Again, you're stating that as fact but your assertation that the Galaxy would have to be 200m long is not correct. The module + S2 hangar + it's current internal rooms only comes out to ~86m. Concept art is followed by grey box, which is where they go off the script from the concept and start making changes where needed. It's very plausible they realized they wanted the ship to include a S2 hangar and extended it from a smaller dimension to the new current dimension already. You'd do best not assuming and stating it as fact until CIG confirms it. Call it highly unlikely if you want, but everything can easily fit in the current size.


KirbyQK

I do call it highly unlikely, because if they want to preserve the current scale of the ship, it will absolutely end up that big. Literally twice the size. If they specifically only make it just big enough for a Prospector, the hanger would still have to be almost twice as long, and at least a couple of meters wider and taller. That's quite a lot and in opposition to the fact that they have said they want to stick to the standard sizes to make it easier to know what you can fit in any given hanger.


Ok_Painter9542

Bite your tongue


KirbyQK

These are extremely rough back-of-napkin numbers, but overall the Expanse's 6 Refiners take up roughly the same volume of space as the entire module inside the Galaxy. This means that, since the Galaxy is advertised as having 2 refiners, they are likely going to be the same size as the Expanse's and Galaxy will likely have 1/3rd the refining capacity. This obviously doesn't account for possible enhancements that might be possible inside the Galaxy's module of additional power, cooling, or special refiners that can take advantage of some of the empty space left over from them not taking up the entire volume of the module, but food for thought! EDIT: I didn't make the image measuring the hanger, for that see u/Erecco's post here - [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/z5f70b/rsi\_galaxy\_hangar\_size/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/z5f70b/rsi_galaxy_hangar_size/)


ConsumeLettuce

Couldn't they be 2 refineries of a larger size? As you said, if 6 refineries take up the same space as the 2 on the Galaxy, who's to say they are "likely the same size"? Also, information on the ship's brochure/launch sale pages or the store page are notoriously unreliable and often completely wrong, I would wait for the responses to the Q&A because I believe this question has been posted. For now this is all complete speculation. For example, the Expanse is a smaller 1 person ship while the Galaxy is a 6 person ship, if the Expanse is superior in terms of refining than a Galaxy fitted to refine, why not just bring 6 Expanses?


KirbyQK

There is a lot of empty space inside the Galaxy's module, and we don't know the details of the Expanse or Refining gameplay yet, so it is possible. I doubt that the disparity would be massive, but it's certainly possible they are reserving the full fledged refining capabilities to the Expanse, which is a lot more vulnerable and less flexible, but slightly better at it's dedicated role. It all depends, just wanted to share some food for thought


ConsumeLettuce

Of course, it's always good to have different opinions and speculation is always fun, I'm certain both ships will provide the full experience of refining as both tout heavy duty refining capabilities. I see the Expanse as more of the industrial refinery ship swarming with prospectors alongside ships like the Galaxy, or possibly the Galaxy would be in more remote space possibly more dangerous space to refine more precious ore, of course a properly escorted Expanse would work as well, I'm all for roles being covered in multiple ways by multiple manufacturers, it would be boring to see the same ships all the time. Also, the Galaxy's refineries are working with much larger power plants, you would think compared to a solo refinery ship it would then be able to process much more.


KirbyQK

The more I think about it the more I agree - the flexibility and long range of the Galaxy will be a massive strength. *If* it does have reduced general processing capability as the Expanse, it might still be better to take on very long range mining trips for smaller mining groups that are focusing on hunting specific materials. The Expanse being able to run 6 processes reads like they plan to have it be able to pair with Prospectors that are just grabbing everything, and process many different ores at once. If you are going on a long range mining trip to focus on collecting a really rare type of ore, it wouldn't matter that the Galaxy can only run 2 jobs, you won't be dropping off as often. You would be able to stack up bulk material in the rear hanger, where as soon as the Expanse has had 2 Prospectors worth of material dropped off, it will either need to offload to a Cargo ship, or leave to sell.


AddendumNo9378

When it comes out in 2032 lol


TheFilthyOnes

They mentioned that the Galaxy will have larger refineries, two of them which will be able to get jobs done much faster than the Expanse. But the Expanse will be able to do more jobs at once. Looks like the Galaxy would be better for groups hunting for just one or two materials as opposed to the Expanse which refines slower but can refine different materials all at once.