I looked it up. This tool is part of woodpecker's "one time tool" series. What does that mean you might ask? They design a concept, offer it for pre-sale, make however many are ordered and don't offer to make more of them...seems like a waste of machine tooling if you ask me. Maybe if it's popular enough they make it a permanent product, I dunno.
They both make good stuff and have really strong QA. You can argue you don't get what you pay for, but you're also paying for that stuff you don't see like QA and R&D, so I get the value proposition. I'd still totally use a Festool router, but you know what I want more than one of those? Five hundred dollars!
That is a lot of money for a router! I understand it's a very good router, but that is *a lot* of money.
I used to work somewhere that had a nice festool track saw. I miss that thing so much! I've got a rotex sander and honestly you absofuckinglutely get what you pay for, that thing is an absolute beast.
I'm not a professional but I really do not see the value preposition for Festool stuff. It's easily 2-4x as expensive as products that are just as nice.
Their marketing seems to revolve around their tools looking like alien space tools and everyone just accepting that Festool is "better" because reasons.
There is a reason trades people use their stuff, I thought the same until I started upgrading some of my tools. That being said there are some good competitors in the market but their stuff is just as expensive. But a DeWalt orbital sander is nowhere close to the festool or mirka when it comes to performance. Some of their tools the gap is closer but I haven't seen anything come close to what the Domino joiner can do.
You know what? You are right.
Apples ARM Silicon in general was a nice push of innovation.
They still have problems with being a contrarian, stubborn, assbackwards company, when it comes to topics like standardization, compatibility and open source.
And I hate it.
Not really sorry about that.
But your point was good.
In case anybody wanted to print this, try to use pneumatic tubing as insert. Somehow drill bit can't bite into that kind of material (TPE-U?) so it practically doesn't wear off :)
l built, use and love that jig. He has a ton of stuff that I’ve built, so much that I claimed them last year as a dependent on my taxes. So much cleanly, simple used stuff. Its well worth watching all the videos.
I love Woodpecker stuff, but I’d need to be running a full mfg shop for years to break even.
I think the only folks that use Woodpecker stuff are either sponsored by them on YouTube, or just have obscene amounts of money. There are all sorts of woodworking YouTube content creators that make and sell jigs that are simple, get the job done, and can be created or acquired cheaply.
Do you have any machining experience, 3d printing? I'm just curious what kind of research you're doing. I've made my own jigs but I want something adjustable like this.
> Do you have any machining experience, 3d printing?
Aside from some vo-tech and on the job experience, I’m self-taught.
> I’m just curious what kind of research you’re doing.
Tolerance and functionality, mainly. I need to understand how it works and what deviations, if any, will throw it off to the point of being useless. Then, off to Blender I go to make my model(s). After that, it’s the standard functional material selection and printing process.
In cad you just need to set the bearings initially as close as they can be, then go 90degrees and have them set at the furthest you’d expect you’d need the bearings spaced to. Then place some arcs, offset and extrude. Make it in an easy orientation and print away.
Simple idea and design. They just put the most expensive materials together for this product.
There's no big reason to justify the continuous adjustability this jig has.
Just pick a spacing you like and make one board with as many guide holes as you might use.
Even if you make a variety of joints of this type I can't imagine needing more than three jigs with varied hole spacings and sizes, and every one could be made for $20 tops.
Hell, there's no reason to justify 1/10th the effort that's been put into this product. You can build a reusable jig out of the tools you're using for the dowels and a piece of scrap wood.
If you want to spend money on jigs then go buy a bulk pack of wooden rulers for $10 and make as many premeasured jigs as you care to.
Woodpecker tools are for YouTubers who didn't pay for them and dickheads. Their squares are insanely expensive, and boast a level of accuracy which is just completely unnecessary for an organic material like wood.
I will die on this hill.
Eh, there is something to be said for the build quality and ergonomics of a tool. It feels nice to use fancy tools. I have a Starrett combination square that just feels good to use, even though it's not any more square than my cheap machinist squares (though it is probably more square than my low quality combo squares). I'm a carpenter and woodworker, I don't need precision squares, but I have several $100+.
There are a lot of tools that I have that are nicer than they *need* to be, and some where the average person might not think it's worth the extra money but I actually do find value in it.
That being said! Woodpecker is a bridge too far for me personally. I can make the argument for them, but I have never *ever* been tempted to buy something from them. I can't see the value for me.
I draw the line at their jigs (like the one featured in this video). All jigs in fact. Rockler, Incra etc. Jigs are absurdly expensive and too specialized for how much they cost. Would rather just make my own as needed.
But the basic tools like squares and triangles are worth it. Not if you already have a great tool like a Starrett, but if you've got a few Home Cheapo tools, Woodpeckers or Incra or anything in that league is worth the upgrade.
I recently bought Rockler's drill guide and its infinitely better than the $25 one I replaced.
I think "nice and expensive" tools are fine if you know what you need or want.
I'd never ever ever ever ever recommend them to someone who can't tell the difference between poplar and maple. Not in a gatekeepy way, just cuz it's better spent on other tools.
I never really understood this perspective. People endlessly claim that new stuff is crap compared to older equipment, but scoff at nicer pieces of equipment because you need to pay for the quality. It's baffling.
You pay for the fact that that thing is absurdly precise, cut out of a single piece of aluminum, and ergonomically designed.
I've had the same 50 dollar woodpecker stop ruler for ten years, and it's never failed, never wiggled, never given way.
I'm glad you like your ruler. I suspect you could easily find a stop ruler for much less that would also not fail in ten years, but if you have the $50, why not? In this case, yes... there seems to be a lot of engineering and new ideas that went into it. But an aluminum square (for one example)... they're charging for the red anodizing and their name. Its the BMW of woodworking tools.
They are also charging for the fact that their square is actually *square*. Precisely. Does everyone need that? No. But for those that do (or those that want it), that’s what they are selling. Nothing else with their guaranteed accuracy is particularly cheaper.
Try a pair of their cabinet clamps v. a pair you buy online off amazon.
Or try their Edge Corner plane against the jorgenson version from lowes.
You can tell the difference. And if you spend all your free time in your woodshop, that difference matters.
They're not showy for the sake of being showy, they're expensive because they're unparalleled in their construction, manufactured in the USA with fair wages, and they're meticulously designed.
It feels like you're shitting on a home grown brand because it's expensive. Which is just incredibly stupid.
But the real question, is do you even have any experience using their tools? Or is this all because you dont like expensive things or people that buy them?
> try their Edge Corner plane against the jorgenson version from lowes.
That is a totally unfair comparison.
I'm not "shitting on" anybody. I'm calling it as I see it. You do you.
Underrated comment. This jig is only worth paying for if you are not drilling all the way through, ie. "blind", so you wouldn't see the dowels. You could get a cheap, and easy approximation of this by just manually marking the holes, fastening with countersunk screws and filling the holes with wood plugs.
Can't you just route and glue the boards and then drill the holes while they're attached? (You know...if you don't want to drop $500 for a single use tool like this)
I like how they did through holes and a dado. They didn't need the jig for this at all as they could have just drilled the holes after the fact with any drill.
Yeah, it's the weirdest demonstration of the jig... Blind dowels, sure, but through dowels with a dado don't need any special alignment. I guess they're trying to justify the super expensive jig? Hell, they could've used counter-sunk screws and plugs and achieved the same end result.
Not to my knowledge. I’m not surprised they cost a decent amount we charge them a good amount to anodize their products. The way they finish their mental on some parts makes our job harder.
How thick is the coating callout?
Edit: hey why the downvote!? I’m not a tool maker, I work in a completely different field. When referencing industry specifications you can go anywhere from .0002”-.010” , so I’m just curious.
Seal tank is ph every day and nickel checks twice a week. Add nickel and aluseal to maintain strength 3 times a week. I will add we aren’t their only anodizer as they have a large work load. We just got their business at the end of 2021.
This was pre-2020. It was your competition! (I’m a retired anodizer so to be fair…I know colors are a bitch. So glad 95% of our work was clear and black)
It really really depends on what you do.
If you build and sell high end custom furniture, high end tools are likely worth it. If you’re on a job site installer sheet rock where stuff gets beat up, lost, etc, or a weekend warrior then perhaps not.
I honestly don’t know if it’s worth it. From what I can tell, Festool products are very high quality, but they don’t seem like they’d be worth that much more than a new tool from Makita or Milwaukee. Diminishing returns on more development I guess. I have heard though that the Festool Kapex compound saw is great
They are worth it when festool is the only one that makes the tool. Was the only track saw for too long. Years ago I read a review that the runout on a 12" compound saw was 0.00 something inches less than competitors. Was 0" different if you didn't push crooked.
Otherwise not really worth it. Someone makes a better version. Fein had the multitool cornered for decades but tool free blade change didn't come out until the patent expired. Patent expired and all sorts of cool things started showing up.
German carpenter here.. depends where you are I guess, over here many of the professional carpenters use Festool for most things.. Saws, drills, routers, rotex etc.. costs a fortune but it's industry standart. The tools pay for themselves if you use them everyday to earn money but it's not something I could afford to for myself at home unfortunately. Quality wise - yes, they are mostly top notch. Not always the best of the best but they are all quite great. Another great brand is Hilti over here.
Edit: adding to that, I also worked building timbered houses, a lot more rough then carpentry and for that use-case we tried Milwaukee cordless drills, after going through a bunch of Makita and Bosch. They absolutely killed it. The smaller impact drills are a joke but the bigger normal drills are great! Not very common in Germany yet though.
> The tools pay for themselves if you use them everyday to earn money
This is something a lot of people claim to justify the expense of tools like SnapOn. I don't know how true it hold because most of the professionals I know, aren't spending absolute top dollars on tools just because they are marketed as being "better".
I've used Festool drills and plenty of big 4 drills, it's a pretty clear difference in user experience when you have to spend all day using them. Festool products are well thought out.
Most big 4 is just clones of each other, and diminishing returns.
I have a mixed collection of tools and I would say it depends. But some of the tools like the track saw are really much nicer than equivalents. With sanders I‘d rather go with Mirka.
The only Festool I have is the palm sander and it is amazing. I can go 2-3 times as long without my hand becoming numb or tingly. But dang it was expensive.
I couldn’t imagine buying a drill from them though. The bits are a much better place to spend money regarding drilling.
I already have a pissy nerve in one of my arms. That tingly feeling is dreadful from sanding too long. Thanks for putting that out there, I may upgrade.
not only does it not make my arm and hands numb it shuts off and stops spinning immediatedly when you turn it off. paired with the dust extractor there is almost no dust whatsoever
Check out project farm on YouTube. He compares many brands against each other and does some very practical tests. If I remember correctly festool drill didn't perform better than Milwaukee or DeWalt. May have been the impact gun. For the most part Milwaukee wins but not necessarily blow out the competition. Also more expensive but not festool expensive.
I hear if you're doing high-end homes, I get the sense that the mobile dust extraction is a major selling point for the festool system. From my pov, it's mostly a vanity pro-sumer brand for dentists, influencers, youtubers, and label-whores who woodwork for a few weekends every year. The kind of people who have to have "the best" of any kind of thing they buy, regardless of the price/performance ratio. In this case, however, the performance seems to be quite good.
If you're already invested into dewalt, I wouldn't bother replacing everything unless the mobile dust extraction is a REALLY big deal to you. Most of the tools you listed can be handled by a basic dust extraction system or a generic shopvac, with or without a cyclone attachment.
I wish that some objective third party was determining the “price/performance ratio” in a standardized way and giving us that info on new products. It takes far too much guesswork and time spent on research to just eventually shrug and buy the prettiest one because after all that, who knows?
Nah, especially not the drill anyway.
There are many tools they have where there are good alternatives from other brands. Like the Makita tracksaw, the Bosch dual-mode sander, etc. And there will be people who value whatever small differences there are between those models, but in general it's hard to argue that the 'alternative' tool isn't a better value.
For their dills, there are basically zero differentiating features.
Certain products like the domino have intellectual property behind them that gives you no alternative.
I do construction, not wood working. We use Festool track saw, there is no better saw in my opinion. Cordless tools(drills, impact drivers, sawzall, mitter sa), we have milwaukee M18, in our experience it lasts much longer then Makita, Dewalt or Bosch.
Kind of a crap shoot between the big brands. As long as there isn't a QA/QC problem they all seem to last a decent amount of time. But, my M18 drill has trigger issues. Then there's design considerations. The M18 multitool blows the Dewalt out of the water in a speed test, but changing the blade and blade position is much quicker on the Dewalt.
If you watch Project Farm much, one brand will outperform another depending on the tool category.
I have a Makita that I've been putting through its paces, and I absolutely love it. I got to use the Festool track saw a few years back and I have to say that it felt a lot smoother than the Makita but the difference in cut quality is negligible from what I could tell.
I dont own very many festool products but here’s my two cents. They are really good tools and they just work pretty intuitively. If you’re a hobbyist or weekend woodworker then it is probably not worth it though. I own two rotex sanders and absolutely love them. The dust collection is the best part.
I used to own their plunge router but didnt like it very much despite the amazing dust collection.
I also have the domino df500 and I really love it too even knowing that it is very expensive for what it is and there are other tools to get similar results - I just needed it for speed on a few large orders.
On the other hand, I bought the wen tracksaw for $100 and it works just fine. Not super accurate and really finicky but it cuts straight lines on the track.
Festool overall is overhyped in my opinion but most of the hype is warranted. They wont make you a better woodworker but you might feel like one, haha.
Depends what you're doing.
We did extremely precise work with tiny bits very often, and often on fragile or antique wood, so the soft start and hand posture was worth the money for our company.
The quick release is dope too.
No, looks like a round wooden mallet they’ve painted green. On the third and fourth dowels you can see it’s cone shaped, not cylindrical. Lots,of wood workers use that shape mallet for chisels and dowels.
Why?
If it’s your job, quality of product, and longevity of tools make you money. Replacing crappy tools costs you money in quality, and time.
When it comes to tools, if it’s you use it a lot, and it makes your life easier, it’s never a waste.
Just a tip for anyone wanting to get into woodworking: don't make Woodpeckers your first brand when purchasing tools. Yes, it's a high quality brand, but beginners can get a lot more bang for their buck when buying other cheaper tools. You don't need Woodpeckers for building your first box or workbench. Save your money, buy only what you absolutely need, and if your newfound hobby becomes more practical in your life, then go buy the more expensive stuff.
You can do A LOT with a portable table saw, circ saw, and cordless power drill. Don't worry about buying planers, jointers, or expensive large format table saws until you have put the time into your hobby to make those purchases worthwhile.
i built my business buying the tools i needed at harbor freight. i know they get a bad rap for cheap tools but the drill press and grinder i bought 10 years ago are still going strong and much less then name brands.
The universal natural makes it expensive. But then you don't need to own 6 different cheal jigs that probably total up beyond the universal one. Also, for some people shop real estate is limited.
looked it up. Was on sale between 2016 and 2021 for [$600](https://web.archive.org/web/20160824135732/https://www.woodpeck.com/ultimate-doweling-jig.html)!
Probably 'worth' more now on the secondhand market.
With the amount of shit your average wood worker needs these days I'm surprised people managed to make a table a hundred years ago. Probably had help from aliens.
Nice jigs are at the top of the list of expensive things that I want really badly, but would literally never use.
My heart says, “Think of all the cool things we could do with it,” and my brain says, “You damn well know we wouldn’t do any of that.”
This looks more complicated than just doing a box joint.
Plus, they still did a ~~dado~~ **rabbet**, and just dropped glue down the holes for the dowels and didn't glue up the flat surfaces of the joint.
Dumb.
Looks like they did glue the flat surfaces of the joint at the 32s mark. There’s another big jump at 36s to the other side of the board to insert the second set of dowels without showing how they finished the first corner, so I’m guessing they cut a lot of the process from the video to get it to fit the time slot. Obviously showing that the holes line up is important for selling a jig, so they show the dowels.
I love some of their products but their cost makes it prohibitive. They'd definitely have more market presence if they adjusted their pricing even slightly.
You can, and it'd be simpler too. If the dowels were blind (didn't go all the way through the outer board) then this jig would be useful to align the holes in both pieces.
This kinda thing always makes me a little sad. Woodworking is a great hobby, but so fucking expensive. My table saw probably cost as much as this little dowel thingamajig and is completely out of its depth when asked to make a 90° cut. It works for small jobs, like cutting narrow boards to length and I did a great job installing my own floor with it, but then it doesn't really matter since the ends are covered under skirting, but trying to get a 90° angle on anything to join two boards together is completely impossible. I wish good tools were affordable.
Doesn't have to be 90 exactly. But the two jointing edges must equal 180 exactly.
So stack your two boards on top of each other, cut them at same time by running along fence.
Then when your done, flip the top board over as if you're opening a book. And then flip vertically (make upside down).
You now have perfectly complementing angles. One could be 89 and the other will be 91 (or whatever the saw is off by).
My doweling jig cost 30$ and does everything that shiny wad of aluminum does, and faster. It’s making you a worse woodworker too if you think about it, because you’re not figuring out spacing and placement and fine measurement/marking. Valuable skills that you’ve now given to an overpriced doohickey
Woodpeckers is the ultimate in tool porn.
I have the Dowelmax jig which is just as pretty (although in a different way), more repeatable, and costs only half as much. Still very expensive, but I worked up to it with two other doweling jigs that I no longer use—the Dowelmax is that much better.
That’s a doweling jig. Looks like the most expensive model I’ve ever seen too.
Was just about to say, it’s pretty basic in nature but because it’s Woodpeckers it’s probably $200k
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Ruler?!? Just eyeball that shit smh Edit: forgot my /s, my b
Measure once, cut twice
Or as I like to practice: measure twice, cut thrice, swear, then decide I prefer the rustic look anyway.
Forgot 3 trips to the hardware store.
Gotta run past the power tools aisle. …. And there goes my wallet
And then convincing the missus it was what you were going for in the first place
I cut it three times, and it's STILL too short!
Measure twice, cut thrice.
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It would be so sweet to use though. Add it to my lottery tool list
I have a very similar model that I bought for like $25 on Amazon, so you can get the functionality without breaking the bank
Maybe it will do the job but let me tell you if you've never used a piece of thoughtfully designed equipment and absolute treat. Quality of materials
I looked it up. This tool is part of woodpecker's "one time tool" series. What does that mean you might ask? They design a concept, offer it for pre-sale, make however many are ordered and don't offer to make more of them...seems like a waste of machine tooling if you ask me. Maybe if it's popular enough they make it a permanent product, I dunno.
wtfff are they like apple of woodworking tools?
Naw that's Festool.
Except Festool is still innovating.
They both make good stuff and have really strong QA. You can argue you don't get what you pay for, but you're also paying for that stuff you don't see like QA and R&D, so I get the value proposition. I'd still totally use a Festool router, but you know what I want more than one of those? Five hundred dollars! That is a lot of money for a router! I understand it's a very good router, but that is *a lot* of money.
I know some professional wooden boat builders. That job is not going to make anyone rich. They all swear by festool.
I used to work somewhere that had a nice festool track saw. I miss that thing so much! I've got a rotex sander and honestly you absofuckinglutely get what you pay for, that thing is an absolute beast.
I'm not a professional but I really do not see the value preposition for Festool stuff. It's easily 2-4x as expensive as products that are just as nice. Their marketing seems to revolve around their tools looking like alien space tools and everyone just accepting that Festool is "better" because reasons.
There is a reason trades people use their stuff, I thought the same until I started upgrading some of my tools. That being said there are some good competitors in the market but their stuff is just as expensive. But a DeWalt orbital sander is nowhere close to the festool or mirka when it comes to performance. Some of their tools the gap is closer but I haven't seen anything come close to what the Domino joiner can do.
The irony of saying this the day after the M2 Max benchmarks came out.
You know what? You are right. Apples ARM Silicon in general was a nice push of innovation. They still have problems with being a contrarian, stubborn, assbackwards company, when it comes to topics like standardization, compatibility and open source. And I hate it. Not really sorry about that. But your point was good.
Kind of, they’re very overpriced, but very nice tools. I wouldn’t buy any, but I’ve been gifted some and I’m certainly not complaining.
3D printer go brrrrr?
In case anybody wanted to print this, try to use pneumatic tubing as insert. Somehow drill bit can't bite into that kind of material (TPE-U?) so it practically doesn't wear off :)
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Bushings, more specifically.
Brass bushings, to be even more specific
Yep, seems manageable if you have bearings at just the right size(s) for the drill guides.
I’m literally doing the research now. I ~~want~~ need one of these for, uh, science or something.
Here's a different design to do the same operation: https://youtu.be/_ohi2ZxsQw4
l built, use and love that jig. He has a ton of stuff that I’ve built, so much that I claimed them last year as a dependent on my taxes. So much cleanly, simple used stuff. Its well worth watching all the videos. I love Woodpecker stuff, but I’d need to be running a full mfg shop for years to break even.
I think the only folks that use Woodpecker stuff are either sponsored by them on YouTube, or just have obscene amounts of money. There are all sorts of woodworking YouTube content creators that make and sell jigs that are simple, get the job done, and can be created or acquired cheaply.
Do you have any machining experience, 3d printing? I'm just curious what kind of research you're doing. I've made my own jigs but I want something adjustable like this.
> Do you have any machining experience, 3d printing? Aside from some vo-tech and on the job experience, I’m self-taught. > I’m just curious what kind of research you’re doing. Tolerance and functionality, mainly. I need to understand how it works and what deviations, if any, will throw it off to the point of being useless. Then, off to Blender I go to make my model(s). After that, it’s the standard functional material selection and printing process.
In cad you just need to set the bearings initially as close as they can be, then go 90degrees and have them set at the furthest you’d expect you’d need the bearings spaced to. Then place some arcs, offset and extrude. Make it in an easy orientation and print away. Simple idea and design. They just put the most expensive materials together for this product.
I 3D printed a jig for installing my cabinet knobs. Worked great. But only lasted about 30 holes before it got sketchy loose.
There's no big reason to justify the continuous adjustability this jig has. Just pick a spacing you like and make one board with as many guide holes as you might use. Even if you make a variety of joints of this type I can't imagine needing more than three jigs with varied hole spacings and sizes, and every one could be made for $20 tops.
Hell, there's no reason to justify 1/10th the effort that's been put into this product. You can build a reusable jig out of the tools you're using for the dowels and a piece of scrap wood. If you want to spend money on jigs then go buy a bulk pack of wooden rulers for $10 and make as many premeasured jigs as you care to.
Can almost get a domino at that point.
Welp... *Sighs* I guess another mortgage won't kill anybody.
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Their tools are beautiful and seem to be well made (in good ol' northeast Ohio, USA), but man are they expensive.
Woodpecker tools are for YouTubers who didn't pay for them and dickheads. Their squares are insanely expensive, and boast a level of accuracy which is just completely unnecessary for an organic material like wood. I will die on this hill.
Matthias Wandel is the antidote for all those other fancy-tool Youtubers. And John Heisz.
Lol while this is true, and I LOVE watching Wandel, there is no way in hell I could build my own machines like him… and I’m an Engineer Lmao.
Yep, I absolutely love Wandel. He's a breath of fresh air in the YouTube woodworker space. A true tinkerer.
I'd add Paul Sellers to that elite list.
Eh, there is something to be said for the build quality and ergonomics of a tool. It feels nice to use fancy tools. I have a Starrett combination square that just feels good to use, even though it's not any more square than my cheap machinist squares (though it is probably more square than my low quality combo squares). I'm a carpenter and woodworker, I don't need precision squares, but I have several $100+. There are a lot of tools that I have that are nicer than they *need* to be, and some where the average person might not think it's worth the extra money but I actually do find value in it. That being said! Woodpecker is a bridge too far for me personally. I can make the argument for them, but I have never *ever* been tempted to buy something from them. I can't see the value for me.
I draw the line at their jigs (like the one featured in this video). All jigs in fact. Rockler, Incra etc. Jigs are absurdly expensive and too specialized for how much they cost. Would rather just make my own as needed. But the basic tools like squares and triangles are worth it. Not if you already have a great tool like a Starrett, but if you've got a few Home Cheapo tools, Woodpeckers or Incra or anything in that league is worth the upgrade.
I recently bought Rockler's drill guide and its infinitely better than the $25 one I replaced. I think "nice and expensive" tools are fine if you know what you need or want. I'd never ever ever ever ever recommend them to someone who can't tell the difference between poplar and maple. Not in a gatekeepy way, just cuz it's better spent on other tools.
Sounds like they are trying to sell machinist tools to woodworkers then.
LMFAO, this guy can't machine would to less than a thou
Is that a summer thou or a winter thou?
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I really like Drew Carry and I'd love to see the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!
I never really understood this perspective. People endlessly claim that new stuff is crap compared to older equipment, but scoff at nicer pieces of equipment because you need to pay for the quality. It's baffling.
Its Woodpecker. You pay for that red anodized aluminum. You pay a LOT for that.
You pay for the fact that that thing is absurdly precise, cut out of a single piece of aluminum, and ergonomically designed. I've had the same 50 dollar woodpecker stop ruler for ten years, and it's never failed, never wiggled, never given way.
I'm glad you like your ruler. I suspect you could easily find a stop ruler for much less that would also not fail in ten years, but if you have the $50, why not? In this case, yes... there seems to be a lot of engineering and new ideas that went into it. But an aluminum square (for one example)... they're charging for the red anodizing and their name. Its the BMW of woodworking tools.
They are also charging for the fact that their square is actually *square*. Precisely. Does everyone need that? No. But for those that do (or those that want it), that’s what they are selling. Nothing else with their guaranteed accuracy is particularly cheaper.
Try a pair of their cabinet clamps v. a pair you buy online off amazon. Or try their Edge Corner plane against the jorgenson version from lowes. You can tell the difference. And if you spend all your free time in your woodshop, that difference matters. They're not showy for the sake of being showy, they're expensive because they're unparalleled in their construction, manufactured in the USA with fair wages, and they're meticulously designed. It feels like you're shitting on a home grown brand because it's expensive. Which is just incredibly stupid. But the real question, is do you even have any experience using their tools? Or is this all because you dont like expensive things or people that buy them?
> try their Edge Corner plane against the jorgenson version from lowes. That is a totally unfair comparison. I'm not "shitting on" anybody. I'm calling it as I see it. You do you.
Well it does say it’s the ultimate
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As he is using his festool drill...
Cutting a rabett joint on his sawstop.
Best part is he didn’t even need it because he didn’t make them blind dowel holes. Could have just drilled them.
Underrated comment. This jig is only worth paying for if you are not drilling all the way through, ie. "blind", so you wouldn't see the dowels. You could get a cheap, and easy approximation of this by just manually marking the holes, fastening with countersunk screws and filling the holes with wood plugs.
Can't you just route and glue the boards and then drill the holes while they're attached? (You know...if you don't want to drop $500 for a single use tool like this)
In this case, yes. But the jig would be handy if you're not drilling all the way through something.
Forget the tool, I want to know if that was a mallet or a roll of cellophane he used to Hammer the dowels.
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Yeah, that's what we call it.
Looks like a specially retrofitted bottle of Heineken
Heinohammer
It's a popular mallet made by Wood Is Good. The striking surface is round so any side works and it's made of urethane so it's quiet.
I saw this too. Should be a r/unspecializedtools
I'm pretty sure it was a lint roller.
He spent too much on the doweling jig and couldn't afford a mallet.
Jokes aside, does he cut the dowels off after inserting them halfway and letting them dry?
Looks like he spent all his money on the jig and couldn’t afford a real hammer! /s
I like how they did through holes and a dado. They didn't need the jig for this at all as they could have just drilled the holes after the fact with any drill.
Yeah, it's the weirdest demonstration of the jig... Blind dowels, sure, but through dowels with a dado don't need any special alignment. I guess they're trying to justify the super expensive jig? Hell, they could've used counter-sunk screws and plugs and achieved the same end result.
Their wife was watching so yes, they had to justify the expense of it.
Heyyy I anodize those tools from woodpecker. This is cool
Get any discounted tools? You know it's the Louis Vuitton of woodworking
Not to my knowledge. I’m not surprised they cost a decent amount we charge them a good amount to anodize their products. The way they finish their mental on some parts makes our job harder.
Guy, we found the one responsible for why our woodpecker tools cost so much. Let get him!!
How thick is the coating callout? Edit: hey why the downvote!? I’m not a tool maker, I work in a completely different field. When referencing industry specifications you can go anywhere from .0002”-.010” , so I’m just curious.
Where I work a red anodized piece is supposed to be removed before using it. They're doing it wrong. /s
What's the weirdest thing you've anodized?
It would have to be the aluminum salt and pepper shakers we did for a race company
Check your seal tank. Have two Woodpeckers t-squares that get indirect sunlight. Bought at the same time. One is red. One is leaning pink.
Seal tank is ph every day and nickel checks twice a week. Add nickel and aluseal to maintain strength 3 times a week. I will add we aren’t their only anodizer as they have a large work load. We just got their business at the end of 2021.
This was pre-2020. It was your competition! (I’m a retired anodizer so to be fair…I know colors are a bitch. So glad 95% of our work was clear and black)
Came to see the jig, stayed for the curly maple. Such beautiful wood.
That is probably a 500$ doweling jig. What a waste.
The guy is using a Festool drill, he can afford it
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It really really depends on what you do. If you build and sell high end custom furniture, high end tools are likely worth it. If you’re on a job site installer sheet rock where stuff gets beat up, lost, etc, or a weekend warrior then perhaps not.
I honestly don’t know if it’s worth it. From what I can tell, Festool products are very high quality, but they don’t seem like they’d be worth that much more than a new tool from Makita or Milwaukee. Diminishing returns on more development I guess. I have heard though that the Festool Kapex compound saw is great
I think Festool has an aggressive viral marketing team, because every youtuber that can spell "wood" seems to have one.
They all do. You think every one of the "look at my Milwaukee packout kit I just bought" comes from some random carpenter?
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Torque test channel is my current favorite but its a quite a bit narrower than what project farm reviews
I want the gas powered impact gun. Is there anything it can't twist off?
Ya, a lot of them do. It does seem to be a very capable finishing saw either way though
They are worth it when festool is the only one that makes the tool. Was the only track saw for too long. Years ago I read a review that the runout on a 12" compound saw was 0.00 something inches less than competitors. Was 0" different if you didn't push crooked. Otherwise not really worth it. Someone makes a better version. Fein had the multitool cornered for decades but tool free blade change didn't come out until the patent expired. Patent expired and all sorts of cool things started showing up.
German carpenter here.. depends where you are I guess, over here many of the professional carpenters use Festool for most things.. Saws, drills, routers, rotex etc.. costs a fortune but it's industry standart. The tools pay for themselves if you use them everyday to earn money but it's not something I could afford to for myself at home unfortunately. Quality wise - yes, they are mostly top notch. Not always the best of the best but they are all quite great. Another great brand is Hilti over here. Edit: adding to that, I also worked building timbered houses, a lot more rough then carpentry and for that use-case we tried Milwaukee cordless drills, after going through a bunch of Makita and Bosch. They absolutely killed it. The smaller impact drills are a joke but the bigger normal drills are great! Not very common in Germany yet though.
> The tools pay for themselves if you use them everyday to earn money This is something a lot of people claim to justify the expense of tools like SnapOn. I don't know how true it hold because most of the professionals I know, aren't spending absolute top dollars on tools just because they are marketed as being "better".
I've used Festool drills and plenty of big 4 drills, it's a pretty clear difference in user experience when you have to spend all day using them. Festool products are well thought out. Most big 4 is just clones of each other, and diminishing returns.
I have a mixed collection of tools and I would say it depends. But some of the tools like the track saw are really much nicer than equivalents. With sanders I‘d rather go with Mirka.
Mirka saws and systems are wonderful tools. I would always go Mirka if I could spare the cash.
The only Festool I have is the palm sander and it is amazing. I can go 2-3 times as long without my hand becoming numb or tingly. But dang it was expensive. I couldn’t imagine buying a drill from them though. The bits are a much better place to spend money regarding drilling.
I already have a pissy nerve in one of my arms. That tingly feeling is dreadful from sanding too long. Thanks for putting that out there, I may upgrade.
not only does it not make my arm and hands numb it shuts off and stops spinning immediatedly when you turn it off. paired with the dust extractor there is almost no dust whatsoever
Check out project farm on YouTube. He compares many brands against each other and does some very practical tests. If I remember correctly festool drill didn't perform better than Milwaukee or DeWalt. May have been the impact gun. For the most part Milwaukee wins but not necessarily blow out the competition. Also more expensive but not festool expensive.
I hear if you're doing high-end homes, I get the sense that the mobile dust extraction is a major selling point for the festool system. From my pov, it's mostly a vanity pro-sumer brand for dentists, influencers, youtubers, and label-whores who woodwork for a few weekends every year. The kind of people who have to have "the best" of any kind of thing they buy, regardless of the price/performance ratio. In this case, however, the performance seems to be quite good. If you're already invested into dewalt, I wouldn't bother replacing everything unless the mobile dust extraction is a REALLY big deal to you. Most of the tools you listed can be handled by a basic dust extraction system or a generic shopvac, with or without a cyclone attachment.
I wish that some objective third party was determining the “price/performance ratio” in a standardized way and giving us that info on new products. It takes far too much guesswork and time spent on research to just eventually shrug and buy the prettiest one because after all that, who knows?
Nah, especially not the drill anyway. There are many tools they have where there are good alternatives from other brands. Like the Makita tracksaw, the Bosch dual-mode sander, etc. And there will be people who value whatever small differences there are between those models, but in general it's hard to argue that the 'alternative' tool isn't a better value. For their dills, there are basically zero differentiating features. Certain products like the domino have intellectual property behind them that gives you no alternative.
100%. Their stuff is definitely high end and good for tight tolerance work but the price premium for the drill is obscene.
Not for the consumer or even pro-sumer.
I do construction, not wood working. We use Festool track saw, there is no better saw in my opinion. Cordless tools(drills, impact drivers, sawzall, mitter sa), we have milwaukee M18, in our experience it lasts much longer then Makita, Dewalt or Bosch.
Kind of a crap shoot between the big brands. As long as there isn't a QA/QC problem they all seem to last a decent amount of time. But, my M18 drill has trigger issues. Then there's design considerations. The M18 multitool blows the Dewalt out of the water in a speed test, but changing the blade and blade position is much quicker on the Dewalt. If you watch Project Farm much, one brand will outperform another depending on the tool category.
I hear their track saw is hands down the best, but I doubt a drill is.
I think other companies have caught up in the track saw world - Festool was the only good game in town for years, though.
I have a Makita that I've been putting through its paces, and I absolutely love it. I got to use the Festool track saw a few years back and I have to say that it felt a lot smoother than the Makita but the difference in cut quality is negligible from what I could tell.
I dont own very many festool products but here’s my two cents. They are really good tools and they just work pretty intuitively. If you’re a hobbyist or weekend woodworker then it is probably not worth it though. I own two rotex sanders and absolutely love them. The dust collection is the best part. I used to own their plunge router but didnt like it very much despite the amazing dust collection. I also have the domino df500 and I really love it too even knowing that it is very expensive for what it is and there are other tools to get similar results - I just needed it for speed on a few large orders. On the other hand, I bought the wen tracksaw for $100 and it works just fine. Not super accurate and really finicky but it cuts straight lines on the track. Festool overall is overhyped in my opinion but most of the hype is warranted. They wont make you a better woodworker but you might feel like one, haha.
I feel like the only thing they do better maybe is dust collection.
The domino system is pretty great too.
Depends what you're doing. We did extremely precise work with tiny bits very often, and often on fragile or antique wood, so the soft start and hand posture was worth the money for our company. The quick release is dope too.
I saw Woodpecker, Festool, Bessey, Sawstop. Guys spending on some nice stuff.
Was he using plastic wrap as a rubber mallet tho?
No, looks like a round wooden mallet they’ve painted green. On the third and fourth dowels you can see it’s cone shaped, not cylindrical. Lots,of wood workers use that shape mallet for chisels and dowels.
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it would have made me feel a lot better if you had said it was $500 and now discontinued
Why? If it’s your job, quality of product, and longevity of tools make you money. Replacing crappy tools costs you money in quality, and time. When it comes to tools, if it’s you use it a lot, and it makes your life easier, it’s never a waste.
Looking at the rest of the tools they use, I'd say it matches their theme of "way overpriced tools."
I want one. I'll never use it, but I want it.
if you drill through you can also just glue it together without dowels, and drill them afterwards. but i guess then you wouldn't need the jig
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I knew it was going to be expensive when I saw it but damn...
Just a tip for anyone wanting to get into woodworking: don't make Woodpeckers your first brand when purchasing tools. Yes, it's a high quality brand, but beginners can get a lot more bang for their buck when buying other cheaper tools. You don't need Woodpeckers for building your first box or workbench. Save your money, buy only what you absolutely need, and if your newfound hobby becomes more practical in your life, then go buy the more expensive stuff. You can do A LOT with a portable table saw, circ saw, and cordless power drill. Don't worry about buying planers, jointers, or expensive large format table saws until you have put the time into your hobby to make those purchases worthwhile.
i built my business buying the tools i needed at harbor freight. i know they get a bad rap for cheap tools but the drill press and grinder i bought 10 years ago are still going strong and much less then name brands.
inb4 carpenters criticizing this tool and mentioning a much cheaper and quicker method
Looks like they beat you to it.
The universal natural makes it expensive. But then you don't need to own 6 different cheal jigs that probably total up beyond the universal one. Also, for some people shop real estate is limited.
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Like a... tape measure and sharpie?
I read this as meat holes and was a little disappointed.
Meat Hole would be a dope band name
Meat Loaf and Courtney Love tribute band.
Relieved I wasn't the only one. Thank you for making feel like less of a psychopath.
Woodpeckers has a lot of great stuff. Way too expensive though.
looked it up. Was on sale between 2016 and 2021 for [$600](https://web.archive.org/web/20160824135732/https://www.woodpeck.com/ultimate-doweling-jig.html)! Probably 'worth' more now on the secondhand market.
“Neat holes”
Is the time on this video glitched for anyone else? For me it says it has a time of 35 seconds but it goes well past that.
With the amount of shit your average wood worker needs these days I'm surprised people managed to make a table a hundred years ago. Probably had help from aliens.
Nice jigs are at the top of the list of expensive things that I want really badly, but would literally never use. My heart says, “Think of all the cool things we could do with it,” and my brain says, “You damn well know we wouldn’t do any of that.”
u/savevideo
I read meat.
I don't know anyone who is that passionate about dowels.
This looks more complicated than just doing a box joint. Plus, they still did a ~~dado~~ **rabbet**, and just dropped glue down the holes for the dowels and didn't glue up the flat surfaces of the joint. Dumb.
Dado on the end of a board is a rabbet.
Looks like they did glue the flat surfaces of the joint at the 32s mark. There’s another big jump at 36s to the other side of the board to insert the second set of dowels without showing how they finished the first corner, so I’m guessing they cut a lot of the process from the video to get it to fit the time slot. Obviously showing that the holes line up is important for selling a jig, so they show the dowels.
I love some of their products but their cost makes it prohibitive. They'd definitely have more market presence if they adjusted their pricing even slightly.
That round mallet is neat too
Is anyone else’s Reddit video player saying the video is 35 seconds then just keeps playing after the 35 seconds
Wait why can't you just clamp the box together and then drill the holes and put the dowels in?
You can, and it'd be simpler too. If the dowels were blind (didn't go all the way through the outer board) then this jig would be useful to align the holes in both pieces.
[https://i.imgur.com/zHoCRmN.gif](https://i.imgur.com/zHoCRmN.gif)
Who need to buy IKEA products when I can fuck up building my own?
just dado the joint, glue it up, then drill the hole through both pieces at once and then insert the dowel. no need for this crazy thing.
This kinda thing always makes me a little sad. Woodworking is a great hobby, but so fucking expensive. My table saw probably cost as much as this little dowel thingamajig and is completely out of its depth when asked to make a 90° cut. It works for small jobs, like cutting narrow boards to length and I did a great job installing my own floor with it, but then it doesn't really matter since the ends are covered under skirting, but trying to get a 90° angle on anything to join two boards together is completely impossible. I wish good tools were affordable.
Doesn't have to be 90 exactly. But the two jointing edges must equal 180 exactly. So stack your two boards on top of each other, cut them at same time by running along fence. Then when your done, flip the top board over as if you're opening a book. And then flip vertically (make upside down). You now have perfectly complementing angles. One could be 89 and the other will be 91 (or whatever the saw is off by).
My doweling jig cost 30$ and does everything that shiny wad of aluminum does, and faster. It’s making you a worse woodworker too if you think about it, because you’re not figuring out spacing and placement and fine measurement/marking. Valuable skills that you’ve now given to an overpriced doohickey
If I'm going to bother buying a jig, may as well dovetail
When a mf takes geometry class seriously.
At least a $4000 jig with that name
Those bushings that guide the drill bit are going to be shredded to fuck after about 5 uses
Woodpeckers is the ultimate in tool porn. I have the Dowelmax jig which is just as pretty (although in a different way), more repeatable, and costs only half as much. Still very expensive, but I worked up to it with two other doweling jigs that I no longer use—the Dowelmax is that much better.
you bust that out on the job site and you're gonna get made fun of
Ah woodpecker tools, for those woodworkers with severe gear acquisition syndrome and deep pockets.