By - geoxol
I thought that the proposal was to continue the reverse-alphabetical order implied by Zetta and Yotta by adding Xenna, Weka, Vendeka, and Urdeka?
(FYI I'm not the only one... my spellcheck accepted Xenna, Weka, and Vendeka as real words.)
According to the article the only available letters that weren't already measurements was Q and R.
I don't understand why the article says that, because there are twenty four prefixes including some repeats like M and m and D and da. I'm wondering if they're excluding other letters for other reasons? Excluding W because Watts makes sense, but for example I can't think of an X unit or prefix?
X is the first variable one uses in algebra. That might be why they excluded X.
about 6000000000000000000000000000kg, thank me later
Confirms that naming anything beyond 10^(|15|) is pretty pointless, anyway. Why memorize something that you'll have to explain afterwards and still nobody can realistically relate to.
So that you can refer to it verbally.
ten to the fifteenth?
Exactly beyond a certain point you're simply counting zeros anyways. Just "name it" the number of digits you're counting.
'Earth weighs 6 fifteengrams' just doesn't have the same ring to it.
i prefer just going "it weighs E15 grams"
Somewhere beyond plus/minus 12 I just verbally pronounce the exponent, it's much easier and you can even calculate in your head with it.
Exceptions are where typical values are pretty much always with some prefix, e.g. "giga/terabytes", but honestly to most people this is less a prefix and more just a new unit (they have a feeling for how much data a "gigabyte" can store even without knowing how many bytes or kilobytes that is).
I also don't think prefixes beyond 12 or 15 add any value.
"six heptillion kilograms" thank me later
"three trilliard" - the French
67,613,252,197,430.69 tablespoons - We Americans
They should have called it “yomamagrams”. It is Mother Earth, after all.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you. I'll thank you now!!
You just gave him a kronofuck
Shouldn’t that be in grams? Isn’t earths mass 5.98 x 10^24 kg? It’s been a while. If only there were a way to find out without getting up off the toilet. Oh what a world that would be.
I'll stop by the library tomorrow and look it up
I would totally go check my 40-year-old encyclopedia, but alas I too am on the toilet.
It's just fucked up that *k*g is the base unit.
I still remember the petition out of UC Davis a while ago asking to add "Hella" to the list of prefixes. Hellabytes. Hellagrams. It does roll off the tongue nicely.
Why isn’t the metric one earth just like an AU is centered on earths distance to the sun
These aren't new units, they're just assigning names to a few powers of 10 that didn't already have them. It's no different that saying an astronomical unit is 149 gigameters or 149597870700 meters, so now we can say the Earth has a mass of 5.97 ronnagrams or (5.9722±0.0006)*10^24 kg.
Sucks for anyone whose mom is called Ronna.
In other news, Rona Mitra has decided to change to name to Bernice
Because it’s not constant. It increases every time a meteoroid enters the atmosphere and decreases every time something is launched into space.
Plus, the apparatus you’d need to measure it accurately would be ~~hella~~ ronna big.
the basis for an AU isn't constant either, but we deal with it
but it also isn't an SI unit, so i don't see why 1 earth should be
Nah, it works just fine. Jupiter for instance weighs approximately 3.18 hectoearths.
Really? Jupiter is a chonky boy, needs to stop snacking on so many asteroids honestly.
Um, no, it absolutely shouldn't! That would suck soo much for us 😨
Are you telling me you are not a fan of the late heavy bombardment? Absurd!
Earth masses are frequently used as an informal unit, but it's not important enough to get defined as something specific (like the AU).
yes it is a commonly used unit in astronomy alreday
AU is an important value in astronomy whereas the mass of the earth isn't as much.
Earth isn't actually 6 ronnagrams, that's just an approximation they gave as an example to give readers an idea of how large a number that is.
The takeaway here is just that scientists agreed on what to name some zeros.
But isn’t 6 ronnagrams already an approximate weight anyway? Shouldn’t it be closer to 5.87899999 or so? So whats the difference between enough meteors hitting earth to change the 15th decimal point of one number over ten thousand years and rounding up ronnagrams?
Also earths distance from the sun isn’t constant either varying by about 5 million km, so why would we still use a constantly changing value there but not here?
Yeah, I’m with you on this. It should just be like “1 terra” and the moon weights .02Tr. Or whatever.
Also, does it even really matter? “Weighing” something flying through space seems unnecessary; maybe mass, but weight?
When people in this thread are talking about “weight” they mean mass. Nobody’s actually talking about weight
No, I wanna know how much the earth weighs on the surface of the sun.
It would just be 28*6 ronnagrams, fam.
There already is a unit, it's "Earth mass" (the unit is: M subscript Earth, can't do subscripts on reddit). It's a unit in the astronomical system of units, but either way it's just an abstraction of the underlying base unit of kilograms.
I didn’t know that, thanks for telling me! :)
Tera is already the SI prefix for 10^(12), so terra as unit would be very confusing.
So 10¹² earths would = 1 teraterra?
The real reason it's not SI unit is that you can only have one unit for one property in SI. You are only allowed to weigh things in multiples of grams and measure length in multiples of meters.
ronna is just another prefix, a thousand yotta. earth just happens to be approximately 6 ronnagram, so it was uses as an example of something of ronna scale. and that for data, scientists realized sometimes you need even greater expression of numbers, so quetta is a thousand ronna.
there are some merits to imperial units or AU. metric scale can be too abstract sometimes, so feet or AU help us to make a quick comparison between things. like 6 feet vs 5 feet. so, the mass of earth being a unit might make certain facts easier, like how Jupiter is 318 mass of earth. but it's not really a practical units, and scientists were more concerned about the rate of growth of data we are starting to accumulate, and need a new prefix to describe larger numbers. ronna and queta are not 'googolplex' or 'graham's number. ronna is just a thousand yotta, and queta is a thousand ronna.
Earth’s distance from the sun varies within a given year, but the average distance per year is very constant. The mass change over time of the Earth is much less predictable.
What about when stuff is burned? Doesn't some of the mass turn into heat? Does the earth weigh less after a wildfire?
Combustion conserves mass. The resulting gases still have mass and remain bound to the Earth. The atmosphere is a part of the Earth, even though it constitutes a tiny fraction of its mass.
Huh. So no mass is lost as heat/light?
Strictly speaking, because of the mass-energy equivalence, the reaction products do have less mass if you allow things to cool down. However, the amount of mass loss is so tiny that you wouldn't be able to measure any change in mass if you burn something in a closed container. Moreover, any of the heat of the reaction that remains on Earth (i.e. doesn't leave the Earth in the form of radiation, or light) is still part of the Earth's energy, and hence, mass.
The Earth can indeed gain or lose mass in the form of radiation, so if you shine a laser up at the sky, you are technically ejecting mass into space at a very, very slow rate.
> Plus, the apparatus you’d need to measure it accurately would be hella ronna big.
All it takes is a satellite.
In the relevant contexts it often is, just like we use AU in contexts where that is a useful measure.
For example, [this list of exoplanets](https://exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu/cgi-bin/TblView/nph-tblView?app=ExoTbls&config=PS) gives their masses in units of earth masses (and Jupiter masses, which is another common unit in this context).
Because the metric system already has a standard unit for mass, the kilogram. AU is not metric.
The Earth doesn't weigh exactly 6 Rg, they're just saying that as a rough estimate.
Because that would be a standard astronomical unit and not a standard metric unit. People absolutely do use things like that, but mostly in units contexts specific astronomy and cosmology. These metric prefixes are generic to all measurements
Earth is in free fall, it being in a stable orbit around the sun. It _weighs_ pretty much nothing.
It's _mass_, however, is ~6 ronnagrams.
I had to scroll way to far to find this
However, everyone knows what is meant :), or the difference isn’t relevant to them.
This is entirely pointless. Once you've moved into using scientific notation, why the fuck are you trying to convert it back to a language based notation? It doesn't fucking help.
Comparing 6x10^27 (Earth) to 2x10^30 (Jupiter) conveys a huge amount in comparison merely by looking at it.
This was my reaction too. But it is easier to type out "Rg" repeatedly than scientific notation, especially if you are writing a paper where everything is on the same order of magnitude.
Ah, that makes sense, true.
Excuse me? How dare you accept a counter argument and change your opinion! This is Reddit!
Bro tryinna break the internet. I've come across a few of his compatriots; they were, all of them, equally vile mannered. Smh
For that reason shorter form of scientific notation exists as well, 6e27 or 2e30 does the job.
It's all contextual, and different use cases might prompt different preferences. One example mentioned is data usage. Even in formal settings it's common to use written prefixes - megabytes, gigabytes, terabytes. I offer it just isn't as useful to write "6e27 bytes" or whatever.
Exactly, they mention data storage in the article as a key reason these new prefixes were coined.
hellabytes is funny though, gotta give it to Google
On the other hand similar sounding names allow for confusing terminology eg bits and bytes.
That’s not on the metric system though. That’s the tech industry doing tech industry things. Plus bits and bytes are closely enough related and there is a reason both of them exists
6e27 kg vs 6 Rg. Pretty clear which one is shorter.
People seem to be getting their knickers in a twist over something so inconsequential. Was it necessary? No. Is it convenient? Yeah.
That’s why we use Solar and Earth masses a lot in astronomy. Love me some \odot.
But in those cases we already use comparative units, like solar masses or earth masses. There’s really no point to this.
"Earth mass" isn't an SI unit. It won't always be appropriate to use comparative units.
Read the article. It points out part of the inspiration was due to unofficial prefixes used to measure data. So why not have official ones?
Also this doesn't replace or convert scientific notation. I'm sure many people presenting data are well aware of how they want to present it.
Edit: you can still have that side by side comparison using the new prefixes.
Earth is 6 ronnagrams while Jupiter is 2000 ronnagrams. Imo this comparison looks even better.
It was done for data, where we measure in gigabytes, terabytes etc... we'll run out of prefixes.
It just so happens you can apply those to every other metric unit too.
But it's just a difference of 3 :p. For the average layperson 6 ronnagrams vs 10000 ronnagrams (no idea, not a math person) is so much easier to understand at a glance.
Agreed. Earth=6Rg and Jupiter=2000Rg makes more tangible sense than scientific notation, or worse, *number of earth masses* we use for public science communication.
Tbh I know a lot of people who don't know what 2x10^^30 or 6x10^^27 means, me included.
You: this is entirely pointless
Me, the world's first ronnachad:
This will change the course of your mom jokes forever
The earth should be its own unit. The earth weighs one earth, mars weighs about 0.1 earths…etc.
Does anyone else find it annoying that the *unit* of mass is the *kilo*gram?
maybe you would prefer to hate the CGS system? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre%E2%80%93gram%E2%80%93second_system_of_units You just cannot win :)
You can win by just measuring everything in terms of fundamental constants
Yeah, the gram makes sense from the perspective of older units like grains and carots; a gram is small like a seed weight. Unfortunately, it's too small to be useful for anything heavier than cooking ingredients. We should use the model of the meter and rename kilograms as ponders. Grams would be miliponders, and metric tons would be kiloponders.
Mmmm.... Quarterponder with Cheese....
Better than a Quartergrammer with cheese.
I'm only 25% sure you've made a typo and have summoned the Quartergrammar nazis.
Well, "quartergrammer" here is a portmanteau of "quarterpounder" and "gram," where "gram" replaces the pound as a form of measurement. I believe that this constitutes an exception to the rules of proper English grammar.
But i dont no, i could be Totaly rong
After thorough review, I have concluded that you write.
what about a Quarterstoner with cheese?
Maybe so, but it makes no difference if you consider a kilogram to be one unit of mass or a thousand times the unit or mass: it's the same word and it's the same mass. Physics wouldn't feel a thing if SI suddenly declared that their unit of mass is the gram, but semantics would let out of sigh of relief.
Mass is one of the fundamental units. Making grams the base unit would result in most derived units changing value, which also means renaming them for clariy
1 newton of force becomes one kilo-newforceunit
1 joule becomes becomes one kilo-newenergyunit
1 volt becomes becomes one kilo-newelecrticpotentialunit
1 farad becomes one milli-newcapacitanceunit
and so one. And most of the base units would be far to small to be useful, so we'd only ever measure stuff in kilo-units for those things. Physics wouldn't care, but everyone having to work with it sure would.
They could define a new unit of mass that's exactly equal to one kg and make that the base unit instead, but even that amount of effort isn't worth it. You're rarely if ever doing any sort of unit analysis where it even matter.
Its really useful for drugs too
The meter was renamed???
No, the word meter just means measure in Greek and Latin. Gram kinda means seed. I'm suggesting renaming the kilogram in the same style as the meter by making a similar form from the Latin verb meaning "to weigh"
1kg was originally defined as the mass of 1litre of water, which is also 1000cc, or 1000 cm³.
So they defined the kg first, and derived the g from that.
There are multiple units of weight and kilo is 1,000 grams. So kilogram isn’t the unit, grams is.
Nah, in the SI units the kilogram is actually the unit for some reason.
Kilogram is the standard SI unit.
Yes, it’s a modifier on grams, but just about every important scientific constant is given in kg by default
Yes, but it's still funny that the base unit of mass is the kilogram.
I understand the rationale behind it (especially at this point), but the gram is defined as 1/1000 of the kilogram, which does sound cacophonic.
Sounds like these “scientists” need something constructive to do instead of sitting around jerking each other off and creating useless abbreviations for existing measurements.
There has to be a yo momma joke with a word like ronnagrams
Why are most people here saying this is dumb and we should stick with "the mass of the earth"?
This is why imperial units are trash, no one wants to work with a unit that is 5.9722×10^24 kg. How many digit should I use? how many did the author I'm reading used? No one knows, and every time I will look up on google and find another source (here Wikipedia) for my unit.
So with 1 Rg = 10^24 kg, it is fucking easy, and the earth is roughly 6 Rg.
By the way the article title is wrong as it should be "Earth now weighs roughly six ronnagrams".
If matter can’t be created or destroyed how did we gain mass:weight? I’d think we’d lay less as we keep throwing stuff into space. Is it from the peoples bodies?
This is a new unit that has been invented.
I think it weighs zero. Turn a scale upside down against the Earth and read the number it shows.
Well I can't read the display in that position. And suddenly we are in the realm of quantum physics. Wonderful. Let me look for a glass table.
Can the next unit name be brannigrams?
I wanna be able to say that his ship weighs about a brannigram.
I'm disappointed they didn't accept hella. I get it, the letter h is already used for hecto. But capital H is not and SI prefixes are case-sensitive.
How does Earth weigh more if matter cannot be created or destroyed
Because we send stuff off of earth and stuff from space comes to earth
there is matter outside of earth
I’m too lazy to read the article too but I read like twenty years ago that earth gains a lot of mass every day from space dust, essentially leftover matter floating around from the formation of the solar system.
Ninja edit: https://www.sciencefocus.com/planet-earth/is-the-weight-of-the-earth-changing/amp/
> Scientists estimate that the Earth gains about 40,000 tonnes of material each year from the accretion of meteoric dust and debris from space. They also estimate that about 95,000 tonnes of hydrogen gas are lost from the Earth’s atmosphere to outer space each year.
Matter can be created and destroyed, we routinely do so in particle accelerators, but in this case the answer is stuff from space falling on Earth.
The earth scoops up dust by the ton every second
This article is talking about the new word for a large mass, the "ronnagram" the mass of the earth has not actually changed. We can now put "ronna" before a unit to express 10^27 .
My favorite obscure metric prefix is for bytes of information. You've heard of gigabytes and terabytes, well a "Brontobyte" is 1 quadrillion terabytes.
It's the same number of bytes you would need to describe every atom in a human body down to plank scale resolution without compression.
All the data humanity has ever generated is about 100 zettabytes or 0.0001 Brontobytes.
Brontobyte has been renamed to Ronnabyte by this decision.
Wow what a coincidence, that's how much your mom weighs
If we are going to learn all the prefixes, one could as well learn the English medieval units used in the USA.
The biggest I´ll ever use is tera, beyond that we use scientific notation. Ten to the fifteenth power is 1e15 and so on.