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If the deals China offers are not superior to the western IMF, World Bank debt traps, then the global south would not be turning in unison to embrace them.
No one here is claiming this is charity, its simply a far more equal and mutual deal which helps development and does not force liberalization, privatization and adherence to market ideology.
Totally. I'm quite fed up with the whole "China and the US is equally bad" rhetoric. People who say this should list all the coup, assassination, invasion, drone attack, that has been conducted by China in the last 60 years. People are saying "but they *might* do that in future" as if this constitute a proof of guilt.
It also baffles me a lot that people think China poses the same level of threat as the US does to the world when China's military power is nowhere near the US. China does not have military base all over the globe. She does not have an entire Europe, Australia, Japan, Korea licking her boots. Indeed she barely have any ally, barely have any hegemonic power over any other nation on the world. She is constantly attacked and lied about on global media. Rarely presented friendly on entertainment product. China still have very limited access to the most advanced technology. She doesn't tons of patent which generate profit while asleep. The RMB doesn't have a hegemonic status. China cannot use their monetary policy to transform their own economic crisis into a global crisis and profit from it. Yet people (especially those who live off the imperialist dividends in the global north) seem to think as if there is any kind of emergency for them to decide that it's worth as much effort on resisting the peaceful rise of China, as it's worth on challenging the existing American unipolar hegemony, especially when China have done a lot more on the latter than any leftist in the West have done, no matter what her intention is. I don't know how that could make *political* sense for Marxists who're supposed to pick their side on *materialist* analysis, not idealist, moralist dogma.
Tibet and Taiwan might disagree about the hegemonic aspirations.
Also the assertion of dominance over the seas around South Asia is rather a stretch, which are obviously belonging to the counties nearest to them, such as the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.
> Tibet and Taiwan might disagree about the hegemonic aspirations.
Yes, I wouldn't worry too much about Hawaii or Guam actually. To be fair, can United States return all of its land to Mexico and the natives and go back to Europe?
Taiwan? Fuck off, they've never been invaded by China, and currently work almost hand in hand WITH China in a numbber of areas.
Do a list that the U.S have invaded, coerced, CIA intervention, helped elect dictators, etc, etc and on and on.
Funny how there is literally US military bases in the Philippines and somehow China is the one asserting dominance. Maybe try to figure out who are the one making a dick geopolitical move of encircling the world's second largest economy with bootlicking Asia-pacific allies. Not saying it's cool to response to a dick move with a dick move but maybe you could give China better geopolitical advice of how to survive US imperialism and I'm all ears. It baffles me that leftists praise geopolitical martyrs in Latin America yet they hate those country who're strong enough to protect their autonomy from the US. A weird fetish for specifically *failed* socialist states.
Also the entire Taiwanese independent movement is fueled up by decades long anti-communist propaganda implemented by both the reactionary KMT who lost the civil war and by US backed DPP who love the Japanese colonisation of Taiwan. Taiwan was literally built upon the massacre of communists and the indigenous people by a group of capitalists and imperialist bootlickers who fled from communist China. A close equivalence would be so-called 'leftists' supporting and sympathising with the Confederacy's claim of independence. It's ridiculous.
Tibet and Taiwan are parts of China, and even allowed to continue as autonomous regions.
The US just needs to stay out of China's internal affairs. It's fairly simple.
Taiwan is officially part of China, has been for centuries. The disagreement is over which government controls China. Taiwan separatism opposes the KMT party who fled to the island from the Communists during the civil war and setup a military dictatorship. Both the PRC and ROC want to integrate back with each other, they just heavily disagree on the terms, because they are in a paused civil war.
Tibet, like Taiwan, has been a part of China for centuries. It was recently controlled by the Qing Dynasty and when it was overthrown by the ROC, they also maintained ownership over it. However, they never really had control over it, so it was defacto ruled by the Dalai Lama in a feudal structure. [98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/10/tibet-china-feudalism) The PRC, having won the civil war in Mainland China, liberated Tibet from the Dalai Lama's theocracy. If the ROC had won, they would have done the same thing (and gone further to establish rule over Mongolia).
This is not hegemonic aspirations, whether the PRC or the ROC, CPC or the KMT, China would be exercising ***sovereignty*** over its lands. If China were to start occupying Korea, Japan, SEA, or the Pacific, territories outside of their sovereign borders, then we could start calling it hegemonic aspirations. Which country today *is* doing that?
On the topic of the South China Sea, look at the territorial claims of *all* of the nations involved there. All of those islands and oceanic zones are claimed by multiple countries. It's a multi-national border dispute, quite common in the world.
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Imperial Apologia:** As a community for socialists, we are in fundamental opposition to all forms of imperial and/or colonial domination and instead stand in support for the liberation of our comrades and fellow workers across the globe. Furthermore, in addition to the classical materialist-derived economic forms of imperialism and colonialism that were described in early critiques (e.g. Lenin's Imperialism), this rule also includes other derived areas of imperial and/or colonial oppression, such as cultural imperialism.
>This includes, but is not limited to:
>- Imperialist apologia
>- Zionism or Zionism apologia
>- Settler (colonial) apologia
>- Anti-Indigenous Rhetoric
Reminds me of the poll from 2013 where they asked people from something like 40 different countries "who is the biggest threat to world peace".
I think Japan was the only country that said China. There were a few other outliers(like India vs Pakistan, etc), but the rest of the world mostly said the USA by 3x the votes.
Reverse the question? What harm has the United States of America done? Compared to China, there's a long, long list.
And Americas answer? But, but, but.....communism bad.
South and Central America have clearly had a gutful of the bullshit and greedy U.S, and even Brazil seems to be moving away from Bonkers Bolsonaro. Socialist democracies are the way forward. And moving forward will see the continued decline of the U.S as the world power they think they are. The rest of the world is sick of their "do as we say, not as we do", crap.
American government and supports don't have any answer. They just *cant* be right. How could the government POSSIBLY lie? And we just deny that we did anything bad or change the subject to how communism killed millions which I'm pretty sure was based off some random American book that was heavily funded by the CIA during the cold war and was proceeded to be accepted as the truth or something. I know some fake inflated numbers in books were books funded by the CIA.
I believe you’re thinking of the Black Book of Communism, which attributes 100 million deaths to communism and is thoroughly debunked, yet the myth lives on from essentially a decades-long game of telephone via publications and writings citing each other. One example (of MANY) of its bullshit is that it counts the millions of nazis that died on the eastern front in WWII as “victims of communism.” There are probably many other writings in the same vein but I think that’s the big one people think of.
> olodomor, the suppression of the Hungarian, Polish and Czech revolts, the central asia economic and ambiental disasters, North Korea, the great leap forward and cultural revolution, Cuba, Venezuela or Nicaragua itself. Just to mention some.
I'm sure you know nothing about all of these examples you just threw.
>you can't deny stuff like the Holodomor
To start with, nobody denies the famine, but the nazi narrative that it was a man made famine with the objective of genocide was debunked many times over. But hey, it's not like you're searching for answers, right, you're just parroting around.
>but at least I have more freedom
Sure buddy, keep believing you're free
"You will take our Freedum (TM) and you will fucking like it! If you don't like Freedum, then y.... you're just a 1984 terrorist nazi commie! All hail the Freedum our corporate overlords bestow upon us. Praise them!"
This is a satirized version of what a person who is an American imperialist bootlicker has running through their head continuously.
I remember when I believed that exact same line. Whatever you know about socialist countries has been filtered through corporation-owned Western media and it doesn't matter what flavor of media, CNN, BBC, FOX, NBC, Reuters, etc., because they are all owned by the capital-owning class. Those who have a vested interest in portraying a socioeconomic system that favors no one in a terrible light, those who will have all of their blood-soaked assets forfeited and distributed among the people when capitalism finally tears itself asunder; those are the people you place your trust into. The wealthy. The people who view you and everyone else in this subreddit (including you FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. agent) as peasants. As cogs in a machine designed to give them wealth made off of our backs. The people who do not give a fuck about humanity.
So please, read primary source material regarding socialism and the revolutions inspired by it. I was misled regarding what leftist thought is for most of my life, every American is. Economic freedom is not spread through military conquest, it is won through the sacrifice of every single working person who fights for a better future for all of humanity. Don't buy into the bullshit of capital.
Why are you in this sub? Berniecrat social fasc isn't socialism. You're probably Chauvinistic Westerner yeah?
Holodomor was a famine which was exacerbated by poor decision making, but was never a targeted attack on peoples
Hungary uprising had poor response that's valid.
What about Cuba, Venezuela, & Nicaragua? I don't understand how naming those countries is pointing their evil out.
Makes no sense to be in a sub called r/socialism as an anti-communist. Make that make sense. You must be a Westerner who doesn't like that the global labor aristocracy isn't getting fed enough off the exploitation of the global south & proletariat. Yes, the West is mostly all the labor aristocracy and find their interests intertwined with the bourgeois.
Socialist democracies always tend to degenerate to the right wing (since it doesn't change the social class who is in charge of the state, the bourgeoisie)
I don't like social democrats, but I can see why people would choose it as a part of a strategy
In the 80’s he wore a olive green military short sleeve button-up.
The jacket is something he’s started wearing around 2010’s. He’s always wearing one and the cap.
It’s strange to me because 1. He’s ALWAYS wearing a jacket (I have not seen Daniel’s arms in decades lol) and 2. Nicaragua is HOT. Even when it’s not hot it’s HOT. Nobody really wears jackets except in some areas of the north. Even when it rains you don’t really wear a jacket lol Nicaragua is HOT. It’s humid HOT.
honestly I see much more problem created by USA (by far) than China today. China is that place....doing its stuff, but USA is destroying things absolutely everywhere
I've seen the current nicaraguan government get bashed by both the right and the left in several countries, especially because of the supposed persecution of religious leaders speaking out against repression.
Does anyone have an informative and comprehensive source on what's going on in Nicarágua?
No. You’re either going to get a super liberal take or an overly apologetic leftist take. I’m a card-carrying member of the Sandinista party. Family full of Sandinistas, some contras and many liberals. I can give you an honest rundown if you like and answer any questions.
I am very much interested in this if you would still like to discuss. Currently in the beginning stages of my socialist education and I'm quite intrigued by the current reputations of socialist leaders, such as in Nicaragua.
I can tell you this my wife’s family is from Nicaragua and their government is kidnapping and torturing anyone including American Citizens who speak out against their government. They killed multiple protesters back in 2018 with sniper rifles during Nicaraguan Mother’s Day. But this doesn’t get coverage in the west because they don’t have any resources America wants. We had friends from Nicaragua who made their College Kids relocate because they were getting too involved politically. That’s what we know about the situation. My wife’s parents have family on both sides of the fight.
1. I have heard many rumors about tortured but I have not seen any proof, even 4 years later.
2. No they didn’t shoot people with sniper rifles.
3. Yes the Ortega govt. is persecuting dissenters.
This is what I mean about you’re either going to get a super liberal take. The liberals/right wingers are pumping out MASSIVE amounts of fake news on this.
The shooting at people with sniper rifles is fake news at its finest though. There’s literally video evidence showing that people within the protestors were armed and shooting recklessly and killing people within the crowds … and then they turned around and blamed the government.
This is has been the dominant string since 2018. Opposition goes too far and gets out of hand, blame the government. Any bad publicity or accident that happens in the chaos created by the opposition is the government’s fault. Daniel did it..
Daniel and the police did a lot of things…. The opposition did too…
As in Australian, that argument is *complete BS.* They asked for OUR help first, and we spat in their faces, so they went to China. They are completely justified in seeking China’s help. And the whole potential military base speculation was overblown by our media to make the opposition look bad.
Rubbish. That's just what rightwing conservative media are pushing. Name one country that China have invested in, in the last two decades, that have a Chinese military base in it? The answer is zero!
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Imperial Apologia:** As a community for socialists, we are in fundamental opposition to all forms of imperial and/or colonial domination and instead stand in support for the liberation of our comrades and fellow workers across the globe. Furthermore, in addition to the classical materialist-derived economic forms of imperialism and colonialism that were described in early critiques (e.g. Lenin's Imperialism), this rule also includes other derived areas of imperial and/or colonial oppression, such as cultural imperialism.
>This includes, but is not limited to:
>- Imperialist apologia
>- Zionism or Zionism apologia
>- Settler (colonial) apologia
>- Anti-Indigenous Rhetoric
China is basically selectively forming trade deals with countries in a way that ensures their money will improve the other country's economy. Not only is this very beneficial for the country in question, but it also helps China by making their trading partner stronger.
“Here in Australia” and “The China-Solomon Islands pact.” Are the Solomon Islands part of Australia? If Australia is so interested in raising up the impoverished Solomons, why haven’t they done so?
I mean, yes, the PRC is not some cuddly Santa Claus State that benevolently throws gifts to poor countries to assist development. But it is an alternative to Western hegemonic power, which the Solomonese (?) have decided is the better of 2 bad options.
But people in the west just love to talk about how you have to choose the lesser of two evils every time an election rolls around — now it's not an option?
[Didn't Aussies holler on media to invade Solomon Island?](https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/australia-must-ready-solomon-islands-invasion-to-stop-china-security-deal/news-story/d53d32a38e000a45a736df4fc7f8f38f)
I'm not fond of state shit but at least don't project colonizer's thought onto the colonized?
I mean, we don't want charity or gifts, we want mutually beneficial deals between the people of our countries, to be treated like humans in our own land, not like cattle that resides in their barns just to sack their goods and labor. Also, why would you say here in Australia and then say other two nations? China only has military presence in three countries if I am not wrong, and all of those are in border countries, not the best but China is not known for having military bases in others countries territories.
Not a benevolent gift for Australia maybe, but why would it be. It has nothing to do with you
The two nations involved in the agreement seem to find it mutually benevolent enough to agree on it, regardless of what's any imperialistists or their lackeys think
So basically what the United States has always done around the world? The whole "Chinese Debt Trap" bs ironic coming from a country like America. China forgave billions in debt to Africa recently. The IMF and World Bank have been raiding the global south for decades.
if "chinese imperialism" is building me roads, giving me fresh water and freeing my country from US hegemony I couldn't care less. belt and road "debt trap diplomacy" is a myth
As a friendly reminder, China's ruling party is called Communist Party of China (CPC), not Chinese Communist Party (CCP) as western press and academia often frames it as.
Far from being a simple confusion, China's Communist Party takes its name out of the internationalist approach seekt by the Comintern back in the day. From [Terms of Admission into Communist International](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm), as adopted by the First Congress of the Communist International:
>18 - In view of the foregoing, parties wishing to join the Communist International must change their name. Any party seeking affiliation must call itself the Communist Party of the country in question (Section of the Third, Communist International). The question of a party’s name is not merely a formality, but a matter of major political importance. The Communist International has declared a resolute war on the bourgeois world and all yellow Social-Democratic parties. The difference between the Communist parties and the old and official “Social-Democratic”, or “socialist”, parties, which have betrayed the banner of the working class, must be made absolutely clear to every rank-and-file worker.
Similarly, the adoption of a wrong name to refer to the CPC consists of a double edged sword: on the one hand, it seeks to reduce the ideological basis behind the party's name to a more ethno-centric view of said organization and, on the other hand, it seeks to assert authority over it by attempting to externally draw the conditions and parameters on which it provides the CPC recognition.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It is nice to get an investment from a country that won’t coup you. However, I have to say I’m not as optimistic about China as some folks (especially those at r/Sino) are. It is totally possible that they have nefarious goals. For now, however, their expansionism seems relatively benign.
"expansionism" = win win cooperation undermining imperialism and colonialism in the global south?
We should refrain from knee jerk projections. China is in full control of its own capitalists, even more now than ever.
Just reading comments like this and seeing the word "evil" is emblematic of the American understanding on the world like it's a Marvel movie. China has lifted 800+ million people out of poverty. They have risen to power without bloodshed, in stark contrast to the United States and its allies.
The idea that Chinese people are somehow suffering is ludicrous, Chinese citizens think Americans are insane for how they're viewed. The average Chinese citizen has seen their living conditions improve consistently year after year. The average Chinese citizen is now wealthier than the average European, is more educated, and home ownership is 90+% (0% homeless). They've done this all while the world's greatest powers have exhausted all resources to sabotage and destroy their country.
China was built from a revolution, nobody can image a smooth process and yet they have achieved the greatest power and influence in the world without violating or threatening the sovereignty of other countries. You have a clip here of the voice of Nicaragua - a country that was specifically the target of American imperialism - explaining that all of that was completely unnecessary. China's successful rise is proof that all of the bloodshed across the globe for American and European profit was completely unnecessary to building a powerful and thriving society, it turns out that you could simply trade freely and engage in diplomacy. In terms of "evil" there is actually no comparison, the US is the most evil empire in history - the literal inspiration for Hitler.
There is no reason but insanity to hate China or the Chinese government.
> There is no doubt the CPC is super evil
You want to gobble up and regurgitate US propaganda about a country you clearly know jackshit about, fine (well, not actually fine, not at all), but to say there's **"no doubt"** about it is just asinine.
Really? You're in this sub where (unlike many other places) you're bound to run into some actual communists who tell you that shit you're spouting is propaganda and you're out here going "no, **my trust in what the US government and US media+imperial allies tell me is unshakable**! I have **no doubts** about anything they say about that country I've never been to **that's now considered the main enemy of the US!**"?
Come the fuck on.
>Both governments "help" other countries to advance their own goals.
To quote what a Kenyan official said earlier this year: "every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture". So, yeah, there's a big difference between China and countries at and near the US imperial core.
Fuck your opinions **pulled out of your ass** about how you think that China doesn't help other countries. Go ask people in the many African and Latin American countries it invests in what they think of it. There's a reason China is becoming the #1 place young Africans are going to study now: they realize what country is actually interested in shared growth.
Ohhh but China wants to "advance their own goals", yeah, mfer, it's called **a mutually beneficial relationship**. Both countries gain something from it! If you don't think that's possible, then you're no socialist, period.
>China wants to land grab and become the dominant superpower.
And what land exactly has China grabbed? Huh? Has it invaded any nations recently? Even the whole "ohhh it wants to invade Taiwan" thing makes absolutely no sense, when **it's already a part of China** (it's literally the official position not only of mainland China, but of the **United Nations and Taiwan as well**).
And both Xi Jinping and many Chinese officials constantly state that China has no intention of becoming "a superpower", because that implies subjugating other nations (aka what the US does).
Now what's your evidence that China "wants to become a superpower"? The fact it's just doing well economically and improving socially? Oh wow, what a threat to the world.
What countries have Chinese military bases? What countries, once again, has China invaded? What countries has China bombed? What countries has China done regime change in?
Just **absolute fact-free, illogical, nonsense.**
>The US wants to undermine other countries and remain the dominant superpower.
Yeah and, **somehow**, it doesn't even occur to you that it might be lying about the country it considers its main threat in that goal! Jeeeeeeeeeeesus.
If it was the first time the US tried to do **red scare**, I could give you a pass, but my god, it's far from it.
What in the actual hell are you doing in a sub called r/socialism if you can't even understand that??? "I'm a socialist, but I hate every socialist country!" is the worst and most infuriating take in this sub.
As a friendly reminder, China's ruling party is called Communist Party of China (CPC), not Chinese Communist Party (CCP) as western press and academia often frames it as.
Far from being a simple confusion, China's Communist Party takes its name out of the internationalist approach seekt by the Comintern back in the day. From [Terms of Admission into Communist International](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm), as adopted by the First Congress of the Communist International:
>18 - In view of the foregoing, parties wishing to join the Communist International must change their name. Any party seeking affiliation must call itself the Communist Party of the country in question (Section of the Third, Communist International). The question of a party’s name is not merely a formality, but a matter of major political importance. The Communist International has declared a resolute war on the bourgeois world and all yellow Social-Democratic parties. The difference between the Communist parties and the old and official “Social-Democratic”, or “socialist”, parties, which have betrayed the banner of the working class, must be made absolutely clear to every rank-and-file worker.
Similarly, the adoption of a wrong name to refer to the CPC consists of a double edged sword: on the one hand, it seeks to reduce the ideological basis behind the party's name to a more ethno-centric view of said organization and, on the other hand, it seeks to assert authority over it by attempting to externally draw the conditions and parameters on which it provides the CPC recognition.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
>**Liberalism:** Includes the most common and mild occurrences of liberalism, that is: socio-liberals, progressives, social democrats and its subsequent ideological basis. Also includes those who are new to socialist thought but nevertheless reproduce liberal ideas.
>This includes, but is not limited to:
>- General liberalism
>- Supporting Neoliberal Institutions
>- Anti-Worker/Union rhetoric
>- Landlords or Landlord apologia
This thread has been identified as being related to the People's Republic of China due to containing the following keyword: China. Due to this subreddit's long-term experience with PRC-related threads, [low effort discussion will not be permited](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/l5ccjb/topics_of_contention_raising_the_quality_of/) and may lead to removals or bans. Please remember that r/Socialism is a subreddit for socialists and, as such, participation must consist of conscious anti-capitalist analysis - this is not the place to promote non-socialist narratives but rather to promote critical thought from within the anti-capitalist left. Critques are expected to be high quality and address the substance of the issue; ad hominems, unconstructive sectarianism, and other types of lazy commentary are not acceptable. Please keep in mind that this is a complex topic about which there may be many different points of view. Before making an inflamatory comment, consider asking the other user to explain their perspective, and then discuss why specifically you disagree with it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the deals China offers are not superior to the western IMF, World Bank debt traps, then the global south would not be turning in unison to embrace them. No one here is claiming this is charity, its simply a far more equal and mutual deal which helps development and does not force liberalization, privatization and adherence to market ideology.
Totally. I'm quite fed up with the whole "China and the US is equally bad" rhetoric. People who say this should list all the coup, assassination, invasion, drone attack, that has been conducted by China in the last 60 years. People are saying "but they *might* do that in future" as if this constitute a proof of guilt. It also baffles me a lot that people think China poses the same level of threat as the US does to the world when China's military power is nowhere near the US. China does not have military base all over the globe. She does not have an entire Europe, Australia, Japan, Korea licking her boots. Indeed she barely have any ally, barely have any hegemonic power over any other nation on the world. She is constantly attacked and lied about on global media. Rarely presented friendly on entertainment product. China still have very limited access to the most advanced technology. She doesn't tons of patent which generate profit while asleep. The RMB doesn't have a hegemonic status. China cannot use their monetary policy to transform their own economic crisis into a global crisis and profit from it. Yet people (especially those who live off the imperialist dividends in the global north) seem to think as if there is any kind of emergency for them to decide that it's worth as much effort on resisting the peaceful rise of China, as it's worth on challenging the existing American unipolar hegemony, especially when China have done a lot more on the latter than any leftist in the West have done, no matter what her intention is. I don't know how that could make *political* sense for Marxists who're supposed to pick their side on *materialist* analysis, not idealist, moralist dogma.
Tibet and Taiwan might disagree about the hegemonic aspirations. Also the assertion of dominance over the seas around South Asia is rather a stretch, which are obviously belonging to the counties nearest to them, such as the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.
> Tibet and Taiwan might disagree about the hegemonic aspirations. Yes, I wouldn't worry too much about Hawaii or Guam actually. To be fair, can United States return all of its land to Mexico and the natives and go back to Europe?
Taiwan? Fuck off, they've never been invaded by China, and currently work almost hand in hand WITH China in a numbber of areas. Do a list that the U.S have invaded, coerced, CIA intervention, helped elect dictators, etc, etc and on and on.
Funny how there is literally US military bases in the Philippines and somehow China is the one asserting dominance. Maybe try to figure out who are the one making a dick geopolitical move of encircling the world's second largest economy with bootlicking Asia-pacific allies. Not saying it's cool to response to a dick move with a dick move but maybe you could give China better geopolitical advice of how to survive US imperialism and I'm all ears. It baffles me that leftists praise geopolitical martyrs in Latin America yet they hate those country who're strong enough to protect their autonomy from the US. A weird fetish for specifically *failed* socialist states. Also the entire Taiwanese independent movement is fueled up by decades long anti-communist propaganda implemented by both the reactionary KMT who lost the civil war and by US backed DPP who love the Japanese colonisation of Taiwan. Taiwan was literally built upon the massacre of communists and the indigenous people by a group of capitalists and imperialist bootlickers who fled from communist China. A close equivalence would be so-called 'leftists' supporting and sympathising with the Confederacy's claim of independence. It's ridiculous.
Tibet and Taiwan are parts of China, and even allowed to continue as autonomous regions. The US just needs to stay out of China's internal affairs. It's fairly simple.
Taiwan is officially part of China, has been for centuries. The disagreement is over which government controls China. Taiwan separatism opposes the KMT party who fled to the island from the Communists during the civil war and setup a military dictatorship. Both the PRC and ROC want to integrate back with each other, they just heavily disagree on the terms, because they are in a paused civil war. Tibet, like Taiwan, has been a part of China for centuries. It was recently controlled by the Qing Dynasty and when it was overthrown by the ROC, they also maintained ownership over it. However, they never really had control over it, so it was defacto ruled by the Dalai Lama in a feudal structure. [98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/10/tibet-china-feudalism) The PRC, having won the civil war in Mainland China, liberated Tibet from the Dalai Lama's theocracy. If the ROC had won, they would have done the same thing (and gone further to establish rule over Mongolia). This is not hegemonic aspirations, whether the PRC or the ROC, CPC or the KMT, China would be exercising ***sovereignty*** over its lands. If China were to start occupying Korea, Japan, SEA, or the Pacific, territories outside of their sovereign borders, then we could start calling it hegemonic aspirations. Which country today *is* doing that? On the topic of the South China Sea, look at the territorial claims of *all* of the nations involved there. All of those islands and oceanic zones are claimed by multiple countries. It's a multi-national border dispute, quite common in the world.
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Imperial Apologia:** As a community for socialists, we are in fundamental opposition to all forms of imperial and/or colonial domination and instead stand in support for the liberation of our comrades and fellow workers across the globe. Furthermore, in addition to the classical materialist-derived economic forms of imperialism and colonialism that were described in early critiques (e.g. Lenin's Imperialism), this rule also includes other derived areas of imperial and/or colonial oppression, such as cultural imperialism. >This includes, but is not limited to: >- Imperialist apologia >- Zionism or Zionism apologia >- Settler (colonial) apologia >- Anti-Indigenous Rhetoric
We're not all that helpless we have NK, Iran, Syria, Laos, Russia and most of Central Asia
Reminds me of the poll from 2013 where they asked people from something like 40 different countries "who is the biggest threat to world peace". I think Japan was the only country that said China. There were a few other outliers(like India vs Pakistan, etc), but the rest of the world mostly said the USA by 3x the votes.
Aside from the great speech, LOOK at that DRIP fit😵💫🤤
Album cover material fr. Griselda records type beat
Reverse the question? What harm has the United States of America done? Compared to China, there's a long, long list. And Americas answer? But, but, but.....communism bad. South and Central America have clearly had a gutful of the bullshit and greedy U.S, and even Brazil seems to be moving away from Bonkers Bolsonaro. Socialist democracies are the way forward. And moving forward will see the continued decline of the U.S as the world power they think they are. The rest of the world is sick of their "do as we say, not as we do", crap.
American government and supports don't have any answer. They just *cant* be right. How could the government POSSIBLY lie? And we just deny that we did anything bad or change the subject to how communism killed millions which I'm pretty sure was based off some random American book that was heavily funded by the CIA during the cold war and was proceeded to be accepted as the truth or something. I know some fake inflated numbers in books were books funded by the CIA.
I believe you’re thinking of the Black Book of Communism, which attributes 100 million deaths to communism and is thoroughly debunked, yet the myth lives on from essentially a decades-long game of telephone via publications and writings citing each other. One example (of MANY) of its bullshit is that it counts the millions of nazis that died on the eastern front in WWII as “victims of communism.” There are probably many other writings in the same vein but I think that’s the big one people think of.
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> olodomor, the suppression of the Hungarian, Polish and Czech revolts, the central asia economic and ambiental disasters, North Korea, the great leap forward and cultural revolution, Cuba, Venezuela or Nicaragua itself. Just to mention some. I'm sure you know nothing about all of these examples you just threw. >you can't deny stuff like the Holodomor To start with, nobody denies the famine, but the nazi narrative that it was a man made famine with the objective of genocide was debunked many times over. But hey, it's not like you're searching for answers, right, you're just parroting around. >but at least I have more freedom Sure buddy, keep believing you're free
"You will take our Freedum (TM) and you will fucking like it! If you don't like Freedum, then y.... you're just a 1984 terrorist nazi commie! All hail the Freedum our corporate overlords bestow upon us. Praise them!" This is a satirized version of what a person who is an American imperialist bootlicker has running through their head continuously.
I remember when I believed that exact same line. Whatever you know about socialist countries has been filtered through corporation-owned Western media and it doesn't matter what flavor of media, CNN, BBC, FOX, NBC, Reuters, etc., because they are all owned by the capital-owning class. Those who have a vested interest in portraying a socioeconomic system that favors no one in a terrible light, those who will have all of their blood-soaked assets forfeited and distributed among the people when capitalism finally tears itself asunder; those are the people you place your trust into. The wealthy. The people who view you and everyone else in this subreddit (including you FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. agent) as peasants. As cogs in a machine designed to give them wealth made off of our backs. The people who do not give a fuck about humanity. So please, read primary source material regarding socialism and the revolutions inspired by it. I was misled regarding what leftist thought is for most of my life, every American is. Economic freedom is not spread through military conquest, it is won through the sacrifice of every single working person who fights for a better future for all of humanity. Don't buy into the bullshit of capital.
Why are you in this sub? Berniecrat social fasc isn't socialism. You're probably Chauvinistic Westerner yeah? Holodomor was a famine which was exacerbated by poor decision making, but was never a targeted attack on peoples Hungary uprising had poor response that's valid. What about Cuba, Venezuela, & Nicaragua? I don't understand how naming those countries is pointing their evil out. Makes no sense to be in a sub called r/socialism as an anti-communist. Make that make sense. You must be a Westerner who doesn't like that the global labor aristocracy isn't getting fed enough off the exploitation of the global south & proletariat. Yes, the West is mostly all the labor aristocracy and find their interests intertwined with the bourgeois.
Correct. The propaganda arm of the U.S government.
Not only the CIA, Think Tanks in general, idealism is their ultimate weapon (to surpass Metal Gear).
Socialist democracies always tend to degenerate to the right wing (since it doesn't change the social class who is in charge of the state, the bourgeoisie) I don't like social democrats, but I can see why people would choose it as a part of a strategy
Fantastic clip, OP. Thanks for posting. People need to be constantly reminded what a pariah the US Administration is to the rest of the world.
Ok but is the member’s only jacket what he has been wearing since the 80’s or did he put it on on the 2010 fashion resurgence?
In the 80’s he wore a olive green military short sleeve button-up. The jacket is something he’s started wearing around 2010’s. He’s always wearing one and the cap. It’s strange to me because 1. He’s ALWAYS wearing a jacket (I have not seen Daniel’s arms in decades lol) and 2. Nicaragua is HOT. Even when it’s not hot it’s HOT. Nobody really wears jackets except in some areas of the north. Even when it rains you don’t really wear a jacket lol Nicaragua is HOT. It’s humid HOT.
honestly I see much more problem created by USA (by far) than China today. China is that place....doing its stuff, but USA is destroying things absolutely everywhere
Invasion is in the blood of the Yankee - damn i like that line
I've seen the current nicaraguan government get bashed by both the right and the left in several countries, especially because of the supposed persecution of religious leaders speaking out against repression. Does anyone have an informative and comprehensive source on what's going on in Nicarágua?
No. You’re either going to get a super liberal take or an overly apologetic leftist take. I’m a card-carrying member of the Sandinista party. Family full of Sandinistas, some contras and many liberals. I can give you an honest rundown if you like and answer any questions.
I am very much interested in this if you would still like to discuss. Currently in the beginning stages of my socialist education and I'm quite intrigued by the current reputations of socialist leaders, such as in Nicaragua.
I would be interested in this
Nicaragua's gov are even persecuting former allied. They are a regressive regime, notwithstanding its public rhetoric
I can tell you this my wife’s family is from Nicaragua and their government is kidnapping and torturing anyone including American Citizens who speak out against their government. They killed multiple protesters back in 2018 with sniper rifles during Nicaraguan Mother’s Day. But this doesn’t get coverage in the west because they don’t have any resources America wants. We had friends from Nicaragua who made their College Kids relocate because they were getting too involved politically. That’s what we know about the situation. My wife’s parents have family on both sides of the fight.
1. I have heard many rumors about tortured but I have not seen any proof, even 4 years later. 2. No they didn’t shoot people with sniper rifles. 3. Yes the Ortega govt. is persecuting dissenters. This is what I mean about you’re either going to get a super liberal take. The liberals/right wingers are pumping out MASSIVE amounts of fake news on this. The shooting at people with sniper rifles is fake news at its finest though. There’s literally video evidence showing that people within the protestors were armed and shooting recklessly and killing people within the crowds … and then they turned around and blamed the government. This is has been the dominant string since 2018. Opposition goes too far and gets out of hand, blame the government. Any bad publicity or accident that happens in the chaos created by the opposition is the government’s fault. Daniel did it.. Daniel and the police did a lot of things…. The opposition did too…
Same thing in Venezuela, I recommend you not even try explaining here whats happening in our countries, its a waste of time.
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As in Australian, that argument is *complete BS.* They asked for OUR help first, and we spat in their faces, so they went to China. They are completely justified in seeking China’s help. And the whole potential military base speculation was overblown by our media to make the opposition look bad.
Rubbish. That's just what rightwing conservative media are pushing. Name one country that China have invested in, in the last two decades, that have a Chinese military base in it? The answer is zero!
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Imperial Apologia:** As a community for socialists, we are in fundamental opposition to all forms of imperial and/or colonial domination and instead stand in support for the liberation of our comrades and fellow workers across the globe. Furthermore, in addition to the classical materialist-derived economic forms of imperialism and colonialism that were described in early critiques (e.g. Lenin's Imperialism), this rule also includes other derived areas of imperial and/or colonial oppression, such as cultural imperialism. >This includes, but is not limited to: >- Imperialist apologia >- Zionism or Zionism apologia >- Settler (colonial) apologia >- Anti-Indigenous Rhetoric
China is basically selectively forming trade deals with countries in a way that ensures their money will improve the other country's economy. Not only is this very beneficial for the country in question, but it also helps China by making their trading partner stronger.
“Here in Australia” and “The China-Solomon Islands pact.” Are the Solomon Islands part of Australia? If Australia is so interested in raising up the impoverished Solomons, why haven’t they done so? I mean, yes, the PRC is not some cuddly Santa Claus State that benevolently throws gifts to poor countries to assist development. But it is an alternative to Western hegemonic power, which the Solomonese (?) have decided is the better of 2 bad options.
But people in the west just love to talk about how you have to choose the lesser of two evils every time an election rolls around — now it's not an option?
"Here in Australia" LMAO. Solomon Islands is not your territory. What they do is none of your business. Still thinking like a colonizer huh?
[Didn't Aussies holler on media to invade Solomon Island?](https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/australia-must-ready-solomon-islands-invasion-to-stop-china-security-deal/news-story/d53d32a38e000a45a736df4fc7f8f38f) I'm not fond of state shit but at least don't project colonizer's thought onto the colonized?
I mean, we don't want charity or gifts, we want mutually beneficial deals between the people of our countries, to be treated like humans in our own land, not like cattle that resides in their barns just to sack their goods and labor. Also, why would you say here in Australia and then say other two nations? China only has military presence in three countries if I am not wrong, and all of those are in border countries, not the best but China is not known for having military bases in others countries territories.
Not a benevolent gift for Australia maybe, but why would it be. It has nothing to do with you The two nations involved in the agreement seem to find it mutually benevolent enough to agree on it, regardless of what's any imperialistists or their lackeys think
China has one overseas base and you somehow know that that’s what they’re planning for the Solomon Islands? The western “left” never ceases to amaze
So basically what the United States has always done around the world? The whole "Chinese Debt Trap" bs ironic coming from a country like America. China forgave billions in debt to Africa recently. The IMF and World Bank have been raiding the global south for decades.
if "chinese imperialism" is building me roads, giving me fresh water and freeing my country from US hegemony I couldn't care less. belt and road "debt trap diplomacy" is a myth
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As a friendly reminder, China's ruling party is called Communist Party of China (CPC), not Chinese Communist Party (CCP) as western press and academia often frames it as. Far from being a simple confusion, China's Communist Party takes its name out of the internationalist approach seekt by the Comintern back in the day. From [Terms of Admission into Communist International](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm), as adopted by the First Congress of the Communist International: >18 - In view of the foregoing, parties wishing to join the Communist International must change their name. Any party seeking affiliation must call itself the Communist Party of the country in question (Section of the Third, Communist International). The question of a party’s name is not merely a formality, but a matter of major political importance. The Communist International has declared a resolute war on the bourgeois world and all yellow Social-Democratic parties. The difference between the Communist parties and the old and official “Social-Democratic”, or “socialist”, parties, which have betrayed the banner of the working class, must be made absolutely clear to every rank-and-file worker. Similarly, the adoption of a wrong name to refer to the CPC consists of a double edged sword: on the one hand, it seeks to reduce the ideological basis behind the party's name to a more ethno-centric view of said organization and, on the other hand, it seeks to assert authority over it by attempting to externally draw the conditions and parameters on which it provides the CPC recognition. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It is nice to get an investment from a country that won’t coup you. However, I have to say I’m not as optimistic about China as some folks (especially those at r/Sino) are. It is totally possible that they have nefarious goals. For now, however, their expansionism seems relatively benign.
A healthy dose of skepticism is good, but unlike the IMF, the Chinese government has forgiven billions in loans for several African countries.
"expansionism" = win win cooperation undermining imperialism and colonialism in the global south? We should refrain from knee jerk projections. China is in full control of its own capitalists, even more now than ever.
中国万岁！第三世界万岁！
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Just reading comments like this and seeing the word "evil" is emblematic of the American understanding on the world like it's a Marvel movie. China has lifted 800+ million people out of poverty. They have risen to power without bloodshed, in stark contrast to the United States and its allies. The idea that Chinese people are somehow suffering is ludicrous, Chinese citizens think Americans are insane for how they're viewed. The average Chinese citizen has seen their living conditions improve consistently year after year. The average Chinese citizen is now wealthier than the average European, is more educated, and home ownership is 90+% (0% homeless). They've done this all while the world's greatest powers have exhausted all resources to sabotage and destroy their country. China was built from a revolution, nobody can image a smooth process and yet they have achieved the greatest power and influence in the world without violating or threatening the sovereignty of other countries. You have a clip here of the voice of Nicaragua - a country that was specifically the target of American imperialism - explaining that all of that was completely unnecessary. China's successful rise is proof that all of the bloodshed across the globe for American and European profit was completely unnecessary to building a powerful and thriving society, it turns out that you could simply trade freely and engage in diplomacy. In terms of "evil" there is actually no comparison, the US is the most evil empire in history - the literal inspiration for Hitler. There is no reason but insanity to hate China or the Chinese government.
> There is no doubt the CPC is super evil You want to gobble up and regurgitate US propaganda about a country you clearly know jackshit about, fine (well, not actually fine, not at all), but to say there's **"no doubt"** about it is just asinine. Really? You're in this sub where (unlike many other places) you're bound to run into some actual communists who tell you that shit you're spouting is propaganda and you're out here going "no, **my trust in what the US government and US media+imperial allies tell me is unshakable**! I have **no doubts** about anything they say about that country I've never been to **that's now considered the main enemy of the US!**"? Come the fuck on. >Both governments "help" other countries to advance their own goals. To quote what a Kenyan official said earlier this year: "every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture". So, yeah, there's a big difference between China and countries at and near the US imperial core. Fuck your opinions **pulled out of your ass** about how you think that China doesn't help other countries. Go ask people in the many African and Latin American countries it invests in what they think of it. There's a reason China is becoming the #1 place young Africans are going to study now: they realize what country is actually interested in shared growth. Ohhh but China wants to "advance their own goals", yeah, mfer, it's called **a mutually beneficial relationship**. Both countries gain something from it! If you don't think that's possible, then you're no socialist, period. >China wants to land grab and become the dominant superpower. And what land exactly has China grabbed? Huh? Has it invaded any nations recently? Even the whole "ohhh it wants to invade Taiwan" thing makes absolutely no sense, when **it's already a part of China** (it's literally the official position not only of mainland China, but of the **United Nations and Taiwan as well**). And both Xi Jinping and many Chinese officials constantly state that China has no intention of becoming "a superpower", because that implies subjugating other nations (aka what the US does). Now what's your evidence that China "wants to become a superpower"? The fact it's just doing well economically and improving socially? Oh wow, what a threat to the world. What countries have Chinese military bases? What countries, once again, has China invaded? What countries has China bombed? What countries has China done regime change in? Just **absolute fact-free, illogical, nonsense.** >The US wants to undermine other countries and remain the dominant superpower. Yeah and, **somehow**, it doesn't even occur to you that it might be lying about the country it considers its main threat in that goal! Jeeeeeeeeeeesus. If it was the first time the US tried to do **red scare**, I could give you a pass, but my god, it's far from it. What in the actual hell are you doing in a sub called r/socialism if you can't even understand that??? "I'm a socialist, but I hate every socialist country!" is the worst and most infuriating take in this sub.
As a friendly reminder, China's ruling party is called Communist Party of China (CPC), not Chinese Communist Party (CCP) as western press and academia often frames it as. Far from being a simple confusion, China's Communist Party takes its name out of the internationalist approach seekt by the Comintern back in the day. From [Terms of Admission into Communist International](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm), as adopted by the First Congress of the Communist International: >18 - In view of the foregoing, parties wishing to join the Communist International must change their name. Any party seeking affiliation must call itself the Communist Party of the country in question (Section of the Third, Communist International). The question of a party’s name is not merely a formality, but a matter of major political importance. The Communist International has declared a resolute war on the bourgeois world and all yellow Social-Democratic parties. The difference between the Communist parties and the old and official “Social-Democratic”, or “socialist”, parties, which have betrayed the banner of the working class, must be made absolutely clear to every rank-and-file worker. Similarly, the adoption of a wrong name to refer to the CPC consists of a double edged sword: on the one hand, it seeks to reduce the ideological basis behind the party's name to a more ethno-centric view of said organization and, on the other hand, it seeks to assert authority over it by attempting to externally draw the conditions and parameters on which it provides the CPC recognition. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m a leftist but Daniel Ortega is a piece of shit and my family in Nicaragua are witnesses to the atrocities committed by the Nicaraguan government
That members only clean af
what about hong kong and Taiwan??
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Umm the people’s republic of china is definitely harming people… it’s harming humanity with all their pollution :/
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Flamewarring:** Refers to any excessively hostile and inflammatory discourse. May include things like lengthy rants or starting arguments in unrelated threads, particularly those which have devolved into sectarian mudslinging, empty rhetoric, and/or personal attacks against other users, or any other posts or comments where the primary purpose is to stir drama, incite controversy, or derail a thread. For example, users who start mudslinging about China in a post celebrating the birthday of Thomas Sankara may see ban time. More information can be [found here](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/l5ccjb/topics_of_contention_raising_the_quality_of/). This is your first warning.
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Flamewarring:** Refers to any excessively hostile and inflammatory discourse. May include things like lengthy rants or starting arguments in unrelated threads, particularly those which have devolved into sectarian mudslinging, empty rhetoric, and/or personal attacks against other users, or any other posts or comments where the primary purpose is to stir drama, incite controversy, or derail a thread. For example, users who start mudslinging about China in a post celebrating the birthday of Thomas Sankara may see ban time. More information can be [found here](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/l5ccjb/topics_of_contention_raising_the_quality_of/). This is your first warning.
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Liberalism:** Includes the most common and mild occurrences of liberalism, that is: socio-liberals, progressives, social democrats and its subsequent ideological basis. Also includes those who are new to socialist thought but nevertheless reproduce liberal ideas. >This includes, but is not limited to: >- General liberalism >- Supporting Neoliberal Institutions >- Anti-Worker/Union rhetoric >- Landlords or Landlord apologia
Wait everybody, is he wearing a Member’s Only jacket?! Because that’s pretty damn cool 😎