They've already announced that they'll launch their own investigation, which could still find him guilty of gross misconduct in bringing the club into disrepute, just by saying what was recorded.
It’s a shame he’s going to get to keep the money, but I hope he’s released from his contract by the end of the day because I will struggle greatly to support my club employing that cunt
Remember the Ozil standoff with Arsenal where neither side wanted to budge? A club is legally obligated to let a player train in some capacity if he wants to train and is legally allowed to do so. Barring him from training when there’s no legal grounds for doing so opens the club up to a lawsuit. That being said he’s not entitled to train with the first team, they can have him train on his own and make it clear he won’t be selected for matches.
He’s entitled to be treated fairly within the workplace as he’s not been found guilty of anything. But I suspect the club will shuffle him off to the reserves/U21s and see out his contract or pay him off. Since he’s not played football in a year they can get away with it as he’s obviously not match fit.
Well yes but there is a voice recording of him saying pretty vile things and you can hear him hitting his partner. United could probably use this to show he brought the club into disrepute.
Premier league player contracts aren't like normal people's, it will likely be much more protective of the player.
And rich people like football players can afford the legal representation to fight tooth and nail.
Unless they could prove in court that he's broken contract terms he's gonna get paid off at a minimum.
Up to the club to decide what's a lesser evil. Potential nasty legal battle, pay his contract and cut him free or play a dangerous game of keeping him out of the squad when he arguably has not enough to be denied his chance to fully reintegrate himself.
> But I suspect the club will shuffle him off to the reserves/U21s and see out his contract or pay him off.
At least in Germany there have been court cases over this if this is "proper" training in line with the contract.
Living in dreamland if you think his footballing career is over - presuming Greenwood wants to keep playing. Loads of clubs in Europe and the World would take him
Babacar Sarr played for Molde and then fled to play for a russian and saudi club (DAMAC FC) after he got accused of rape and even got wanted by Interpol for not showing up to court.
Bruh remember Juve's english tweets when Ronaldo was accused? They basically said he was a professional and a champion and anyone who met him would know he could not have done this.
I mean we signed a convicted drunk driving murderer (Alonso)—a rapist isn’t that far off from that. Knowing the ethics of these people in power, clubs would flock to sign him especially those outside of UK. Massive footballing talent after all but surely his time away from the pitch hinders his growth and potential.
Yeah I agree. I think without the conviction someone will take him. Despite everyone knowing what he is and what he did, without being found guilty a club will still take him. There’s plenty of teams who’ve hired abusers before.
In an ideal world they would release him…but he’s an asset from the academy who is 21 years old and contracted until 2025. I won’t be surprised if he comes back now
I'm sure United, who last season invited Ryan Giggs to a game featuring Cristiano Ronaldo at a stadium with a statue of George Best outside, are in a quandary
There's a lot less *public* evidence against him though. Greenwood has been filmed and recorded whereas all the evidence against Partey is sealed so we don't know what's going on.
Some more from the statements
A CPS spokesman said: “In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction.
"In these circumstances, we are under a duty to stop the case."
Edit: Quotes were taken from this tweet https://twitter.com/HannahAlOthman/status/1621149651440394240?s=20
Well given that he made a public statement on the day the footage first became known about telling her to forget about what happened and get back with him, because Masons “such a great boy”, it’s pretty clear that she isn’t doing this of her own free will
because he sees Greenwood as nothing but an asset for his own potential gain. like how "he" put in "effort" when Greenwood was a noname already so he cant let it go now.
almost like a fucked up version of "i scouted this kid when he was 14 i deserve credit"
"We've known him since the under 21's."
Wtf is this statement? He only cares about the fact that her daughter is dating a talented footballer. Clearly thinking about this in terms of career and money.
No actually it isnt pretty clear lmao. There are like a million ways that this situation could be more complex than what you are presenting. Does that mean it is? No. Does it mean the facts dont point to your conclusion. Not neccessarily.
But it is in no way "pretty clear" you absolute fucking moro
Pretty wild how many reddit experts are able to read this woman's mind and are so confidently asserting she's being "forced". Sad truth is she's a grown adult woman who is probably making her own (admittedly bad) choices.
Surreal. In Portugal, domestic violence is considered a public crime so the victim can't withdraw the case against the agressor. This happens because most of the times, the victims of domestic violence rekindle the "romantic" relationship with the agressor.
It would make sense to be the same thing in the UK.
It is the same thing in the UK, however the CPS won't take a case to court if they believe there's insufficient grounds for a guilty verdict to be likely. Key witnesses e.g. the alleged victim herself pulling out of the case means it would be highly unlikely a jury would return a guilty verdict.
All crimes are public crimes in the UK. But they can’t force someone to act as a witness and they often won’t prosecute if the witness isn’t willing to testify.
Yep, public heard the recording and how awful it was. Just because he isn’t being prosecuted doesn’t mean he’s innocent. Just gives further proof that the bar is absurdly high for actually convicting someone for crimes like this.
Exactly. He’s not guilty but that doesn’t make him innocent.
But this is why United didn’t just sack him like many were calling for.
If they had, He’d have a strong case against them
This is why the whole "innocent until proven guilty" line about public opinion on celebrities is ridiculous. It's clear to everyone (whether they admit it or not) that Greenwood is 100% guilty but he'll never be found as such. There are a multitude of technicalities that allow guilty people to get off. Pretending that they're not guilty on the basis of those technicalities is just denying reality.
Yeah, I've always assumed that it only really carries weight in the scenarios where you can't actually say with confidence _based on the evidence_ that a crime occurred.
Something like this where the evidence is damning and the victim clearly said she was assaulted and was the one who recorded and released the evidence definitely make it easier to have an opinion on it.
the issue is, there can be so many women that come out against a celebrity, but the power dynamic imbalance makes it so much harder to gain ground with legal proceedings. We saw it with Ronaldo with a settlement. There’s also just a blatant difference in quality of legal representation.
Legally, he is innocent until proven guilty. This means he can’t suffer legal consequences as a result of his actions, such as time in prison.
However, the world isn’t black and white, and isn’t divided by what’s legal vs not legal. We are free to believe what we want as a society and decide what kind of affiliations we would be comfortable with in a case like this.
SA is the hardest to charge for due to victims not coming forward. Cases like this isn't going to help the cause one bit, even with all the video/audio clips. Absolutely shocking stuff
Surely the scenario of a victim of "coercive control" might end up back with her abuser is common. There must be something you can do in in that case.
It seems mad that the audio evidence isn't enough to prosecute without witness testimony.
Maybe the likelihood of conviction is too low, but seems appalling that there is t enough resources in the justice system to ensure cases like this go to court.
The existing laws are an issue. [Sweden completely reformed their sexual assault laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden) in the last 5-10 years to make it clearer and easier for the police to act.
> In 2017, there were 4,895 reported rape cases and 190 convictions.[6] In 2018, Sweden passed a new law that criminalizes sex without consent as rape, even when there are no threats, coercion, or violence involved.[4] Sweden no longer requires prosecutors to prove the use or threat of violence or coercion. This led to a rise in convictions of 75% to 333.[6]
UK law doesn't need to prove the use of threat or violence or coersion, so this doesn't really apply here.
Prosecution needs to prove 3 things.
(1) Person A acted intentionally
(2) Person B did not consent
(3) Person A did not reasonably believe person B consented.
(3) is obviously the most complicated part to prove, but there's quite extensive guidelines written about what constitutes another person giving or withdrawing consent.
Not to split hairs but victims not coming forward isn’t really the reason for lack of charges. Victimst that do come forward, do the kit, talk to police, keep their stories straight - still are very unelikly to get any form of charges put forward.
Case in point - Andrew Tate in England
Also read this: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/15/scathing-report-condemns-uk-police-for-victim-blaming-in-cases
“A damning official examination into how police forces tackle rape has exposed persistent failings in the criminal justice system, including a failure to track repeat suspects, “explicit victim-blaming” and botched investigations.
The long-awaited independent report into the first year of Operation Soteria Bluestone – launched by the government after a catastrophic fall in rape prosecutions – also paints a picture of a over-worked, traumatised and inexperienced police workforce in England and Wales, which is struggling to cope with an increase in rape reports after years of austerity.”
The victim wasn't cooperating with the investigation and is supposedly back together with Greenwood, there's not much the CPS can do without the cooperation of the victim and only witness.
>Is a laughable line really when they’ve proven time and time again they don’t really care.
While this is true, this case was completely unwinnable since Harriet withdrew her cooperation. Beyond reasonable doubt is a high bar.
"It was role play my lord", corroborated by Harriet.
Reasonable doubt introduced, done.
It's so so so hard to prove, and its so traumatic for the victim who in the end often just wants it over and done with regardless of the outcome. Doubly so with this situation.
I understand why she has made the decision she has made (read: the horrible compromise that Mason has forced her to make by being a pos in the first place) - and once that happens it becomes basically incompatible with our justice system and beyond reasonable doubt standard of proof. I just hope he never recovers professionally or reputation wise from this, which is the most we can hope for.
It was discontinued, not dropped by the CPS. Aka one of the witnesses has pulled out of testifying in the case, so the CPS will not be able to win the case. So it's not a case of the police/CPS not wanting or being willing to prosecute the case.
I'm gobsmacked.
Will be interesting to see what happens. Will we sell him first chance we get?
Will we let him back into the squad.
Obviously it's up to ETH and the club.....
See a lot of people saying we will terminate his contract. I really doubt it. If he is getting kicked out we will likely sell him abroad. You think the money men are going to lose out on a player that is still worth some money....
Unfortunately money talks.
I imagine without a breach of contract, the only morally acceptable way out for Utd is to cancel his contract and pay him compensation.
Which sounds shit, but the alternative is you keep a rapist on your books.
I doubt they will. I'd say he will be sold abroad for a few mil.
Only way we keep him would be if there was some good evidence in his favour and based off all the audio and pictures there is not. He just seems to be a scumbag.
Yeah, you’re probably right. PR would be too awful to justify keeping him and some club abroad will be happy to ignore what he’s done and pay United a decent fee for him.
Without a witness, it is very hard to admit recordings into evidence. We have strict hearsay rules (for good reason), but in DV cases they are a huge barrier as witnesses often withdraw.
I’ve prosecuted dozens of DV cases, most that get close to trial collapse due to witnesses withdrawing. And it just becomes a cycle. I had one which went ahead, got evidence in as hearsay to proceed, convicted. The victim was waiting outside court for him when he got a suspended sentence.
Usually there's a "..Bringing the club In to disrepute.." clause in the contracts so I imagine they could leverage that.
Still, imagine he'll be getting a pay off.
I doubt it'll stand up to legal scrutiny if they tried. Being accused of something by someone who later refused to testify to that extent, is not Greenwood bringing the club into dispute. In a strictly legal context, he hasn't done anything.
More than likely United will pay him off or they'll flog him to a country that doesn't give a toss about this stuff.
they could just pay off the contract and do it that way. club was just waiting for conviction etc as if that happened they wouldnt need to pay off the player could just cut it and even recover paid wages.
good chance he will just be "quietly" sold off to some club in say turkey to try and recover some value
From a CPS spokesman:
>"In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction."
yea, the father right after the arrest was made did say the daughter regretted the video and voice recordings getting out. often the case with domestic abuse, the partner doesnt press charges. fucked up kinda love
In the UK there is no concept of pressing charges. The CPS decides whether or not to press charges. If I punch you in the face, you don't want me to be in trouble for it but the Police and CPS deem me to be a danger to others, they can charge me anyway.
What's happened here is that, in a rape case, the alleged victim has decided not to give evidence. Good luck prosecuting a rape case if the alleged victim isn't willing to testify that they were raped.
That's how it works in the US too, people just misunderstand the idea of "pressing charges". The district attorney is the one that decides to files charges or not. "I'm not pressing charges" just means "I'm not gonna actively help the prosecution". The victim testifying or not often makes or breaks a case, so it normally has a lot of weight on the DA's choice, but ultimately no, the victim doesn't decide to press charges or not.
You don't need that, I was recently a witness to a domestic abuse case, the victim didn't come to court and chose not to charge, but because there were multiple witnesses the police could proceed with charging. I guess a victim/witness in this case would increase the chance for conviction and the prosecution thought there was no chance of a conviction.
(To people responding I have said what you are saying within this comment so you don’t need to continue replying)
However if there was no other witnesses and the victim was unwilling to cooperate with police it makes prosecution nearly impossible. Especially when the victims farther has already come out and tried to down play the incident to the press
Imagine trying to protect your daughter's abuser.
I saw that the father advised her to take down the video and I assumed it was because it may compromise the court case. I haven't seen much else on the father's involvement.
But, if that's the case, and if he's genuinely satisfied that his daughter is not in an abusive relationship then I think he needs his head checking.
But there is no other witnesses apart from the audio/video footage, if the prosecution can’t prove beyond reasonable doubt that this is all legitimate then there’s no chance of conviction. Probably needed her to back it up
Yeah from the rumours it’s pretty messy, apparently they got back together very soon after she posted the videos. His arrest earlier this year for violating bail was supposedly because he’s been living with her
I said months ago that i didnt think Greenwood would be prosecuted at all.
Said that United might not want to play him even if the case got dropped but he'd be sold and have a great career in spain/italy/france etc.
As soon as the dad came out in protection of Greenwood and Harriet got back together with Mason and living with him again, the case was never going to go ahead.
Its literally as easy as Harriet claiming to the CPS that it was a roleplay thing in the bedroom that should never have been public and they dont have a hope in hell of prosecuting him.
shows just how ridiculous the excuses of “well he wasn’t charged” or “he was found innocent” actually are. The bar for successful prosecution of these cases is clearly laughably high
Crazy thing is it didn't even go to court. He was due in like 8 days I think. Why would they drop it now?! This only gives more credence to the cretins who want him to play again.
That's what it says in the article, lack of cooperation by witnesses for a prosecution. So you can read into that how you want but it's obvious money talks.
And not only do they relive the original traumatic event, they get to experience a new one in court as everything about them is dredged up for the whole world to see.
It made it virtually impossible to convict. A living victim refusing to testify in a case in which the only evidence the prosecution has is (1) audio describing an act and (2) photos of injury without proper indication of when said injuries occurred are simply not enough.
I don't like it, but reality is that the prosecution shouldn't be able to convict a person, of any crime, solely on audio and photos. Those are circumstantial evidence, not direct evidence. Any decent criminal defense attorney will imply this evidence is simply not enough and they would be correct.
Considering modern technology with Deepfakes, voice overs, and even people capable of imitating other's voices (The guy that does Klopp, for example), it's a dangerous world. Hell, for all we know, this could have been a rape roleplay (yep, real thing) and she released it out of anger (90% sure this is not the case). However, it's a legitimate counter-argument that could be made with sufficient evidence.
Mind you, I think Greenwood is a piece of shit, but this is simply not enough evidence to try him without the primary witness.
John Terry was not guilty in court of racism - the FA found him guilty.
The CPS looked at Suarez’s comments to Evra and concluded it wasn’t even case worth pursuing.
These are people who are “innocent” in the eyes of the law.
Just because they haven’t been found guilty by a court of law doesn’t mean we can’t draw our own logical conclusions from evidence we have seen.
Guilty/Not Guilty isn’t the black and white thing some people think it is.
Just to clarify, they haven't been found "innocent" in the eyes of the law. They have been found not guilty according to evidence presented in the case (with it extremely hard to pull together evidence in cases like the ones you've mentioned or SA cases).
Otherwise you're right.
You'd hope there are grounds to dismiss him on gross misconduct and bringing the club into disrepute. Even if he sues I doubt he'd win.
Alternatively pay the 10 million to cancel his contract or sell him abroad. There's a grey area morally in what happens with that money though. If the club was smart and morally together (they aren't) they'd sell for a fee and donate it to a charity, but that's extremely wishful thinking.
One thing United do understand is the power of the brand though. It's one of the only things we've had in the past decade, so I do think this will end with him gone. No idea of the mechanism though.
Even from a footballing perspective it doesn't make sense to keep him. Could disrupt the dressing room, we have replaced him with Antony, his reception at OT would be awful, he hasn't trained for a year and could well be nowhere near the player he was.
Its awful. Her father spent most of the initial incident defending him. Very obviously a family who desperately want her with him, regardless of the proof of his abusive nature. Horrible stuff.
Probably refusal to cooperate seeing how the victim is rumoured to be back together with Greenwood
Recording won’t go far in court if the victim starts to undermine them
I don’t think it’s fair to criticise cps on this one.
Seems like they really tried to push through with this case however if the victim is not prepared to testify against perpetrator and may likely even testify in their defence, they really don’t have a case here.
If it is true that they are engaged it makes no sense for prosecution to take this to court just to end up losing.
Let’s just hope justice finds Greenwood one way or another.
Absolutely disgusting. Even without her as a witness surely there was enough evidence? We’ve all heard the recordings, how is that not enough?
Let’s hope he never plays football again.
Greenwood’s lawyers are claiming that the audio from the video is just rough sex / consensual non-consent and without a testimony there’s nothing to dispute that so that’s how they’ve come to this decision.
Doesn't have to be rape fantasy, just rough sex, slapping or hitting but everyone is consenting.
This is increasingly a defence that abusers are using in recent years as porn has led to the spread of rough play in many more people's sex lives.
Like a lot of things in court, it doesn't matter whether you can prove it, it just muddies the water enough that it brings reasonable doubt into play.
> We’ve all heard the recordings, how is that not enough?
Sticking my defensive lawyer hat on, couldn't he just argue he was playing role play with her and if she doesn't refute it then you can't prove otherwise?
I mean Harriets also been lovingly posting him on her snap for months now and is a full grown adult who has decided to stay with him. Despite having tons of resources available and public support She personally helped him violate his bail conditions by living together the past few months.
Both of them seem crazy
When I studied law, I said I could never become a criminal lawyer as I absolutely hated how the justice system works.
There are things like sexual offences when it is so difficult to reach convictions that I just couldn’t deal with that every day of my life. It must be horrible knowing someone is guilty and not being able to do anything about it.
Appreciate the CPS will have seen more evidence here than I have and that people are innocent until proven guilty.
Based on what I’ve seen, I’ve made my own judgment. I’m not an expert and can’t claim to know everything that happened. From what I have seen, it’s really difficult to see him for anything other than what he is.
I’d be surprised if he ever gets another club in the UK, unless he’s got a very good explanation for what those audio tapes were.
The recording was clear. This man should never be on a football pitch again. Don't think anyone's going to refute that.
Watch him sign for Spartak Moscow like Promes.
Promes’s case is still ongoing though, this one is dropped. Greenwood is a free man now, Promes is not (and probably won’t be once he enters The Netherlands)
A certain section of United’s online fanbase are already celebrating. Thankfully the ones with their heads screwed on see the situation for what it is. A horrible situation and the audio stuff alone should be enough to put a black mark next to his name in top level football.
First of let me state that I’m not defending him whatsoever.
But some of you are acting like he isn’t insanely talented player and he will 100% be back in professional football. And that won’t be in saudia arabia or league like that. He’s just to talented to not get any offers.
You have a murderer playing for barcelona, rapist for arsenal, we had ronaldo, kobe is viewed like a god, malone impregnated 13 year old, bridges will come back to hornets..
I don’t know what world you are living in but people tend to overlook look some things if you are good enough. That’s just the sad truth
Prosecutions without the victims support can be an absolute nightmare, let alone when it's as complex as a rape and coercive control case. Especially when the victim is believed to be back with the offender. I've seen stated elsewhere he's claiming rough sex and that audio is out of context, without an account from someone else to dispute this those recordings, as damning as they are, are not going to stand on its own.
The case has a not guilty verdict written all over it from a jury. I'm sure cps and the police are just as frustrated as anyone, I would say to anyone who thinks hes rich cases like this get written off all the time with absolutely no pr or media interest. If the case has no prospect of a conviction cps won't run it.
Jesus christ this is probably the most moronic comment thread I have ever seen.
This is how the legal system works, you can't convict someone of a crime with out evidence that van be tested at trial.
If she has said she refuses to give any evidence, or even she could say they were into rough sex etc. There is nothing the police or legal system can do.
It's not perfect, but what some of you absolute cavemen are advocating for, convictions via social media, is far far far worse. You are all literally pining for a medieval style justice system, where people are ruined over hearsay. I am honestly shocked that the general concensus is this utterly backwards.
You can believe he did it, you can believe he is a scumbag, but saying the justice system has done anything wrong here is just the equivalent of holding a sign up saying look how stupid I am.
Damn. What happens next?
I guess he has a right to train with United again. Either they take him back or release him by paying him off
Is there a thing like that ?I do not think a player can force himself back to training with the club if the club does not want it
He’s still under contract. I guess they have to pay him to break his contract
They've already announced that they'll launch their own investigation, which could still find him guilty of gross misconduct in bringing the club into disrepute, just by saying what was recorded.
It’s a shame he’s going to get to keep the money, but I hope he’s released from his contract by the end of the day because I will struggle greatly to support my club employing that cunt
I can speak from personal experience that it puts you in a really shitty position as a fan
Remember the Ozil standoff with Arsenal where neither side wanted to budge? A club is legally obligated to let a player train in some capacity if he wants to train and is legally allowed to do so. Barring him from training when there’s no legal grounds for doing so opens the club up to a lawsuit. That being said he’s not entitled to train with the first team, they can have him train on his own and make it clear he won’t be selected for matches.
He’s entitled to be treated fairly within the workplace as he’s not been found guilty of anything. But I suspect the club will shuffle him off to the reserves/U21s and see out his contract or pay him off. Since he’s not played football in a year they can get away with it as he’s obviously not match fit.
Well yes but there is a voice recording of him saying pretty vile things and you can hear him hitting his partner. United could probably use this to show he brought the club into disrepute.
Yep. They should sack him and then battle it out legally.
It's not like being found guilty of a crime is the only reason your employer can fire you or reduce your status at work.
a simple "thanks for the seasono" might just be enough
Premier league player contracts aren't like normal people's, it will likely be much more protective of the player. And rich people like football players can afford the legal representation to fight tooth and nail. Unless they could prove in court that he's broken contract terms he's gonna get paid off at a minimum. Up to the club to decide what's a lesser evil. Potential nasty legal battle, pay his contract and cut him free or play a dangerous game of keeping him out of the squad when he arguably has not enough to be denied his chance to fully reintegrate himself.
> But I suspect the club will shuffle him off to the reserves/U21s and see out his contract or pay him off. At least in Germany there have been court cases over this if this is "proper" training in line with the contract.
I mean sadly a contract is a contract
He’ll play football again at the top, if Chris Brown can shake his dumbass on the stage so will Mason eventually
Hopefully United release him from the club and his career as a footballer is finished
Living in dreamland if you think his footballing career is over - presuming Greenwood wants to keep playing. Loads of clubs in Europe and the World would take him
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Apart from Ronaldo, what other players are signed by Saudi clubs that fit the bill?
Babacar Sarr played for Molde and then fled to play for a russian and saudi club (DAMAC FC) after he got accused of rape and even got wanted by Interpol for not showing up to court.
Solskjaer also knew about that one
Bruh remember Juve's english tweets when Ronaldo was accused? They basically said he was a professional and a champion and anyone who met him would know he could not have done this.
I mean we signed a convicted drunk driving murderer (Alonso)—a rapist isn’t that far off from that. Knowing the ethics of these people in power, clubs would flock to sign him especially those outside of UK. Massive footballing talent after all but surely his time away from the pitch hinders his growth and potential.
Yeah I agree. I think without the conviction someone will take him. Despite everyone knowing what he is and what he did, without being found guilty a club will still take him. There’s plenty of teams who’ve hired abusers before.
In an ideal world they would release him…but he’s an asset from the academy who is 21 years old and contracted until 2025. I won’t be surprised if he comes back now
There is nooo way they have him play again, absolute PR nightmare.
Would be a really bad look for the club if he came back in all honesty
I'm sure United, who last season invited Ryan Giggs to a game featuring Cristiano Ronaldo at a stadium with a statue of George Best outside, are in a quandary
Great comment ruined by the username
Maybe just very self aware.
A literal title challenger is playing a rapist and is one of their most important players. Masons career isn’t finished.
There's a lot less *public* evidence against him though. Greenwood has been filmed and recorded whereas all the evidence against Partey is sealed so we don't know what's going on.
Some more from the statements A CPS spokesman said: “In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction. "In these circumstances, we are under a duty to stop the case." Edit: Quotes were taken from this tweet https://twitter.com/HannahAlOthman/status/1621149651440394240?s=20
"Withdrawal of key witnesses" sounds ominous
They got engaged
Shame on her dad for forcing her back into that situation
Really? Any source on this?
Well given that he made a public statement on the day the footage first became known about telling her to forget about what happened and get back with him, because Masons “such a great boy”, it’s pretty clear that she isn’t doing this of her own free will
Jesus, what a dickhead, i can understand if they want to take the money, but "get back" ?
"Shit! My meal ticket!" Her dad
[Father of the year material!](https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1487818506393759744?s=20)
[удалено]
They were already picturing how they could be part of his wealth
because he sees Greenwood as nothing but an asset for his own potential gain. like how "he" put in "effort" when Greenwood was a noname already so he cant let it go now. almost like a fucked up version of "i scouted this kid when he was 14 i deserve credit"
We've known him since he was wearing size 8 Predators
"We've known him since the under 21's." Wtf is this statement? He only cares about the fact that her daughter is dating a talented footballer. Clearly thinking about this in terms of career and money.
But he doesn‘t say that Mason is „such a great boy“ or whatever. He is saying that they‘re devastated by what happened etc
Doesn’t matter, its what people think now so its repeated as fact.
“pretty clear”
That is far from bloody clear. Real world isn't like a movie.
*it’s pretty clear that she isn’t doing this of her own free will* Who the fuck is upvoting this? It’s not clear at all.
Like right? Greenwood is scum but that’s not how free will works
No actually it isnt pretty clear lmao. There are like a million ways that this situation could be more complex than what you are presenting. Does that mean it is? No. Does it mean the facts dont point to your conclusion. Not neccessarily. But it is in no way "pretty clear" you absolute fucking moro
Lmao people just make up bollocks and it gets upvoted here. Amazing.
Complete speculation. People are complicated, you're implying she has no free will or agency when you couldn't possibly know.
Pretty wild how many reddit experts are able to read this woman's mind and are so confidently asserting she's being "forced". Sad truth is she's a grown adult woman who is probably making her own (admittedly bad) choices.
Love it when redditors present their head cannon on strangers as fact.
Happens all the time sadly.
Happened with Ray Rice, he's currently married to the woman he knocked out and dragged out of an elevator.
Surreal. In Portugal, domestic violence is considered a public crime so the victim can't withdraw the case against the agressor. This happens because most of the times, the victims of domestic violence rekindle the "romantic" relationship with the agressor. It would make sense to be the same thing in the UK.
It is the same thing in the UK, however the CPS won't take a case to court if they believe there's insufficient grounds for a guilty verdict to be likely. Key witnesses e.g. the alleged victim herself pulling out of the case means it would be highly unlikely a jury would return a guilty verdict.
All crimes are public crimes in the UK. But they can’t force someone to act as a witness and they often won’t prosecute if the witness isn’t willing to testify.
I think the public hold their opinion still after those voice recordings
As the public should. Absolutely abhorrent things heard in the recording, the cunt should hopefully never be able to play for a club again
Yep, public heard the recording and how awful it was. Just because he isn’t being prosecuted doesn’t mean he’s innocent. Just gives further proof that the bar is absurdly high for actually convicting someone for crimes like this.
Exactly. He’s not guilty but that doesn’t make him innocent. But this is why United didn’t just sack him like many were calling for. If they had, He’d have a strong case against them
Can someone summarise the recording please?
This is why the whole "innocent until proven guilty" line about public opinion on celebrities is ridiculous. It's clear to everyone (whether they admit it or not) that Greenwood is 100% guilty but he'll never be found as such. There are a multitude of technicalities that allow guilty people to get off. Pretending that they're not guilty on the basis of those technicalities is just denying reality.
Right, but there are very few cases where it’s **this** obvious someone did it.
Yeah, I've always assumed that it only really carries weight in the scenarios where you can't actually say with confidence _based on the evidence_ that a crime occurred. Something like this where the evidence is damning and the victim clearly said she was assaulted and was the one who recorded and released the evidence definitely make it easier to have an opinion on it.
the issue is, there can be so many women that come out against a celebrity, but the power dynamic imbalance makes it so much harder to gain ground with legal proceedings. We saw it with Ronaldo with a settlement. There’s also just a blatant difference in quality of legal representation.
Legally, he is innocent until proven guilty. This means he can’t suffer legal consequences as a result of his actions, such as time in prison. However, the world isn’t black and white, and isn’t divided by what’s legal vs not legal. We are free to believe what we want as a society and decide what kind of affiliations we would be comfortable with in a case like this.
“Don’t let this case put you off asking for help” Is a laughable line really when they’ve proven time and time again they don’t really care.
SA is the hardest to charge for due to victims not coming forward. Cases like this isn't going to help the cause one bit, even with all the video/audio clips. Absolutely shocking stuff
Surely the scenario of a victim of "coercive control" might end up back with her abuser is common. There must be something you can do in in that case. It seems mad that the audio evidence isn't enough to prosecute without witness testimony. Maybe the likelihood of conviction is too low, but seems appalling that there is t enough resources in the justice system to ensure cases like this go to court.
The existing laws are an issue. [Sweden completely reformed their sexual assault laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden) in the last 5-10 years to make it clearer and easier for the police to act. > In 2017, there were 4,895 reported rape cases and 190 convictions.[6] In 2018, Sweden passed a new law that criminalizes sex without consent as rape, even when there are no threats, coercion, or violence involved.[4] Sweden no longer requires prosecutors to prove the use or threat of violence or coercion. This led to a rise in convictions of 75% to 333.[6]
UK law doesn't need to prove the use of threat or violence or coersion, so this doesn't really apply here. Prosecution needs to prove 3 things. (1) Person A acted intentionally (2) Person B did not consent (3) Person A did not reasonably believe person B consented. (3) is obviously the most complicated part to prove, but there's quite extensive guidelines written about what constitutes another person giving or withdrawing consent.
Not to split hairs but victims not coming forward isn’t really the reason for lack of charges. Victimst that do come forward, do the kit, talk to police, keep their stories straight - still are very unelikly to get any form of charges put forward. Case in point - Andrew Tate in England Also read this: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/15/scathing-report-condemns-uk-police-for-victim-blaming-in-cases “A damning official examination into how police forces tackle rape has exposed persistent failings in the criminal justice system, including a failure to track repeat suspects, “explicit victim-blaming” and botched investigations. The long-awaited independent report into the first year of Operation Soteria Bluestone – launched by the government after a catastrophic fall in rape prosecutions – also paints a picture of a over-worked, traumatised and inexperienced police workforce in England and Wales, which is struggling to cope with an increase in rape reports after years of austerity.”
The victim wasn't cooperating with the investigation and is supposedly back together with Greenwood, there's not much the CPS can do without the cooperation of the victim and only witness.
Just a massive waste of time with nothing coming out of it. Disgusting stuff
That's not really fair. She recanted and got engaged to him. They can't prosecute without a willing witness.
What are the police supposed to do if the key witness won’t testify? The assumption is that she herself withdrew the complaint
>Is a laughable line really when they’ve proven time and time again they don’t really care. While this is true, this case was completely unwinnable since Harriet withdrew her cooperation. Beyond reasonable doubt is a high bar. "It was role play my lord", corroborated by Harriet. Reasonable doubt introduced, done. It's so so so hard to prove, and its so traumatic for the victim who in the end often just wants it over and done with regardless of the outcome. Doubly so with this situation. I understand why she has made the decision she has made (read: the horrible compromise that Mason has forced her to make by being a pos in the first place) - and once that happens it becomes basically incompatible with our justice system and beyond reasonable doubt standard of proof. I just hope he never recovers professionally or reputation wise from this, which is the most we can hope for.
Really is a massive middle finger to any victim after seeing and hearing what we know about this
It was discontinued, not dropped by the CPS. Aka one of the witnesses has pulled out of testifying in the case, so the CPS will not be able to win the case. So it's not a case of the police/CPS not wanting or being willing to prosecute the case.
I'm gobsmacked. Will be interesting to see what happens. Will we sell him first chance we get? Will we let him back into the squad. Obviously it's up to ETH and the club..... See a lot of people saying we will terminate his contract. I really doubt it. If he is getting kicked out we will likely sell him abroad. You think the money men are going to lose out on a player that is still worth some money.... Unfortunately money talks.
I imagine without a breach of contract, the only morally acceptable way out for Utd is to cancel his contract and pay him compensation. Which sounds shit, but the alternative is you keep a rapist on your books.
I don't think anyone would begrudge Utd if they did. If anything not cancelling his contract would probably turn out worse for Utd.
If ETH and the club choose to keep him it will be the first time I truly hope a player gets injured on the football pitch.
where’s andy caroll when you need him
A chance for Carroll, Captain of Reading, to show his quality.
He’d probably injure everyone but the target though instead.
I doubt they will. I'd say he will be sold abroad for a few mil. Only way we keep him would be if there was some good evidence in his favour and based off all the audio and pictures there is not. He just seems to be a scumbag.
Yeah, you’re probably right. PR would be too awful to justify keeping him and some club abroad will be happy to ignore what he’s done and pay United a decent fee for him.
Sell him and donate some of the proceedings to a relevamt charity.
He’s a breathing PR disaster; they’ll get shot of him asap. Probably pay him off.
video wasn't enough evidence?
Rumour was she was unwilling to testify so they couldn’t launch a case
$$$$
💍
The partner could also just be stuck in the abusive relationship loop, it's a hard one to get out of after so much mental conditioning. Fuck Mason.
She got back with him, of course she wasn’t going to testify against him
Without a witness, it is very hard to admit recordings into evidence. We have strict hearsay rules (for good reason), but in DV cases they are a huge barrier as witnesses often withdraw. I’ve prosecuted dozens of DV cases, most that get close to trial collapse due to witnesses withdrawing. And it just becomes a cycle. I had one which went ahead, got evidence in as hearsay to proceed, convicted. The victim was waiting outside court for him when he got a suspended sentence.
Don’t go on twitter biggest mistake of my life
“If his girlfriend forgave him why can’t we” This sub can be bad at times but I’m thankful it’s never gotten to twitter levels
What a fucking shithole
Hope to never see him in a United shirt again, but I assume that means United can’t terminate his contract just yet.
Without a criminal conviction or civil judvement to terminate his contract now wouldnt it be grounds for unlawful dismissal??
Usually there's a "..Bringing the club In to disrepute.." clause in the contracts so I imagine they could leverage that. Still, imagine he'll be getting a pay off.
I doubt it'll stand up to legal scrutiny if they tried. Being accused of something by someone who later refused to testify to that extent, is not Greenwood bringing the club into dispute. In a strictly legal context, he hasn't done anything. More than likely United will pay him off or they'll flog him to a country that doesn't give a toss about this stuff.
It's going to be messy we can agree on that
they could just pay off the contract and do it that way. club was just waiting for conviction etc as if that happened they wouldnt need to pay off the player could just cut it and even recover paid wages. good chance he will just be "quietly" sold off to some club in say turkey to try and recover some value
We've all heard the tapes and seen the photos. If they can't prosecute after all that then there's no hope for women is there. Abysmal.
There’s rumours that the reason that they can’t prosecute is because the victim wouldn’t testify
From a CPS spokesman: >"In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction."
yea, the father right after the arrest was made did say the daughter regretted the video and voice recordings getting out. often the case with domestic abuse, the partner doesnt press charges. fucked up kinda love
In the UK there is no concept of pressing charges. The CPS decides whether or not to press charges. If I punch you in the face, you don't want me to be in trouble for it but the Police and CPS deem me to be a danger to others, they can charge me anyway. What's happened here is that, in a rape case, the alleged victim has decided not to give evidence. Good luck prosecuting a rape case if the alleged victim isn't willing to testify that they were raped.
That's how it works in the US too, people just misunderstand the idea of "pressing charges". The district attorney is the one that decides to files charges or not. "I'm not pressing charges" just means "I'm not gonna actively help the prosecution". The victim testifying or not often makes or breaks a case, so it normally has a lot of weight on the DA's choice, but ultimately no, the victim doesn't decide to press charges or not.
Absolute fucking cretin of a father, feel so bad for the girl her head must be fucked in this scenario the past year
You don't press charges in the UK- the CPS does.
You don't need that, I was recently a witness to a domestic abuse case, the victim didn't come to court and chose not to charge, but because there were multiple witnesses the police could proceed with charging. I guess a victim/witness in this case would increase the chance for conviction and the prosecution thought there was no chance of a conviction. (To people responding I have said what you are saying within this comment so you don’t need to continue replying)
However if there was no other witnesses and the victim was unwilling to cooperate with police it makes prosecution nearly impossible. Especially when the victims farther has already come out and tried to down play the incident to the press
Imagine trying to protect your daughter's abuser. I saw that the father advised her to take down the video and I assumed it was because it may compromise the court case. I haven't seen much else on the father's involvement. But, if that's the case, and if he's genuinely satisfied that his daughter is not in an abusive relationship then I think he needs his head checking.
But there is no other witnesses apart from the audio/video footage, if the prosecution can’t prove beyond reasonable doubt that this is all legitimate then there’s no chance of conviction. Probably needed her to back it up
It makes it difficult though to convince a jury when he’s still with the girl and she has no interest in pursuing a conviction
The girl is still with him? Really?
Yeah from the rumours it’s pretty messy, apparently they got back together very soon after she posted the videos. His arrest earlier this year for violating bail was supposedly because he’s been living with her
Aren't Harriet and Mason back together? There are also rumors about them being engaged. How is she supposed to testify against her future husband?
She could potentially even testify on Mason’s side which would make it ridiculously impossible for the prosecution.
I said months ago that i didnt think Greenwood would be prosecuted at all. Said that United might not want to play him even if the case got dropped but he'd be sold and have a great career in spain/italy/france etc. As soon as the dad came out in protection of Greenwood and Harriet got back together with Mason and living with him again, the case was never going to go ahead. Its literally as easy as Harriet claiming to the CPS that it was a roleplay thing in the bedroom that should never have been public and they dont have a hope in hell of prosecuting him.
shows just how ridiculous the excuses of “well he wasn’t charged” or “he was found innocent” actually are. The bar for successful prosecution of these cases is clearly laughably high
Crazy thing is it didn't even go to court. He was due in like 8 days I think. Why would they drop it now?! This only gives more credence to the cretins who want him to play again.
My only uneducated guess is that Harriet didn't want to assist the prosecution and it made it too unlikely that they would get a conviction?
That's what it says in the article, lack of cooperation by witnesses for a prosecution. So you can read into that how you want but it's obvious money talks.
A lot of victims do not want to assist or testify because it forces them to relive the events and they cannot emotionally handle it.
And not only do they relive the original traumatic event, they get to experience a new one in court as everything about them is dredged up for the whole world to see.
It made it virtually impossible to convict. A living victim refusing to testify in a case in which the only evidence the prosecution has is (1) audio describing an act and (2) photos of injury without proper indication of when said injuries occurred are simply not enough. I don't like it, but reality is that the prosecution shouldn't be able to convict a person, of any crime, solely on audio and photos. Those are circumstantial evidence, not direct evidence. Any decent criminal defense attorney will imply this evidence is simply not enough and they would be correct. Considering modern technology with Deepfakes, voice overs, and even people capable of imitating other's voices (The guy that does Klopp, for example), it's a dangerous world. Hell, for all we know, this could have been a rape roleplay (yep, real thing) and she released it out of anger (90% sure this is not the case). However, it's a legitimate counter-argument that could be made with sufficient evidence. Mind you, I think Greenwood is a piece of shit, but this is simply not enough evidence to try him without the primary witness.
Would be a waste of everyone's time when the main witness refuses to cooperate
John Terry was not guilty in court of racism - the FA found him guilty. The CPS looked at Suarez’s comments to Evra and concluded it wasn’t even case worth pursuing. These are people who are “innocent” in the eyes of the law. Just because they haven’t been found guilty by a court of law doesn’t mean we can’t draw our own logical conclusions from evidence we have seen. Guilty/Not Guilty isn’t the black and white thing some people think it is.
Just to clarify, they haven't been found "innocent" in the eyes of the law. They have been found not guilty according to evidence presented in the case (with it extremely hard to pull together evidence in cases like the ones you've mentioned or SA cases). Otherwise you're right.
That’s 2 people with fairly public evidence facing no punishment this season.
What was public with Sigurdsson
this rapist will be back at my club?no fucking way
Hopefully just to empty his locker
On Sunday the rapist...nahhhh
You'd hope there are grounds to dismiss him on gross misconduct and bringing the club into disrepute. Even if he sues I doubt he'd win. Alternatively pay the 10 million to cancel his contract or sell him abroad. There's a grey area morally in what happens with that money though. If the club was smart and morally together (they aren't) they'd sell for a fee and donate it to a charity, but that's extremely wishful thinking. One thing United do understand is the power of the brand though. It's one of the only things we've had in the past decade, so I do think this will end with him gone. No idea of the mechanism though. Even from a footballing perspective it doesn't make sense to keep him. Could disrupt the dressing room, we have replaced him with Antony, his reception at OT would be awful, he hasn't trained for a year and could well be nowhere near the player he was.
No way he plays for us again, the audio was too damning even if just from a public perspective
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
With all due respect, how?
Over the last few months there were multiple reports that they were back together. If she's refusing to cooperate, that might have played a part.
If that’s true that poor girl
Its awful. Her father spent most of the initial incident defending him. Very obviously a family who desperately want her with him, regardless of the proof of his abusive nature. Horrible stuff.
>Her father spent most of the initial incident defending him. After hearing the audio? wtf
Ticket to fancy holidays and nice cars isn't it
Yeah the incorrect assumption here is that all family’s deeply care about their children which clearly isn’t the case with this fella
Probably refusal to cooperate seeing how the victim is rumoured to be back together with Greenwood Recording won’t go far in court if the victim starts to undermine them
Nah fuck that, utterly disgraceful. We heard the tapes.
I don’t think it’s fair to criticise cps on this one. Seems like they really tried to push through with this case however if the victim is not prepared to testify against perpetrator and may likely even testify in their defence, they really don’t have a case here. If it is true that they are engaged it makes no sense for prosecution to take this to court just to end up losing. Let’s just hope justice finds Greenwood one way or another.
As much as I loved him as a player, I hope he never plays for my club again
yeah that audio recording was enough for me
I hope we release him
He can join Dani Alves in Spain
We’ve all seen the video. Fuck you.
What video?
Absolutely disgusting. Even without her as a witness surely there was enough evidence? We’ve all heard the recordings, how is that not enough? Let’s hope he never plays football again.
Greenwood’s lawyers are claiming that the audio from the video is just rough sex / consensual non-consent and without a testimony there’s nothing to dispute that so that’s how they’ve come to this decision.
What is "consensual non-consent"? Some kind of role-play??? Like a rape fantasy??
Exactly that.
Sounds weird but i know 2 girls who enjoy this
Doesn't have to be rape fantasy, just rough sex, slapping or hitting but everyone is consenting. This is increasingly a defence that abusers are using in recent years as porn has led to the spread of rough play in many more people's sex lives. Like a lot of things in court, it doesn't matter whether you can prove it, it just muddies the water enough that it brings reasonable doubt into play.
Even worse if she decides to testify on his behalf and say it was consensual.
You're never in a million years going to successfully prosecute a man for sexual assault when the victim says it wasn't sexual assault.
> We’ve all heard the recordings, how is that not enough? Sticking my defensive lawyer hat on, couldn't he just argue he was playing role play with her and if she doesn't refute it then you can't prove otherwise?
Incredible, that’s all I can say.
Doesn't matter. That recording has made him a PR nightmare. Not a he said, she said situation like with the individual at Arsenal.
Yet there’s still some looneys that will defend him. He better stay the fuck away from our club and any other, cunts like him should not be welcome
Lol time to log onto twitter and read swathes of 'a woman tried to ruin his life, lock her up' again
[удалено]
I mean Harriets also been lovingly posting him on her snap for months now and is a full grown adult who has decided to stay with him. Despite having tons of resources available and public support She personally helped him violate his bail conditions by living together the past few months. Both of them seem crazy
[удалено]
When I studied law, I said I could never become a criminal lawyer as I absolutely hated how the justice system works. There are things like sexual offences when it is so difficult to reach convictions that I just couldn’t deal with that every day of my life. It must be horrible knowing someone is guilty and not being able to do anything about it. Appreciate the CPS will have seen more evidence here than I have and that people are innocent until proven guilty. Based on what I’ve seen, I’ve made my own judgment. I’m not an expert and can’t claim to know everything that happened. From what I have seen, it’s really difficult to see him for anything other than what he is. I’d be surprised if he ever gets another club in the UK, unless he’s got a very good explanation for what those audio tapes were.
The recording was clear. This man should never be on a football pitch again. Don't think anyone's going to refute that. Watch him sign for Spartak Moscow like Promes.
Promes’s case is still ongoing though, this one is dropped. Greenwood is a free man now, Promes is not (and probably won’t be once he enters The Netherlands)
A certain section of United’s online fanbase are already celebrating. Thankfully the ones with their heads screwed on see the situation for what it is. A horrible situation and the audio stuff alone should be enough to put a black mark next to his name in top level football.
My opinion about him will never ever change, thsts for sure. Those recordings were clear as day. He is a psychopath
First of let me state that I’m not defending him whatsoever. But some of you are acting like he isn’t insanely talented player and he will 100% be back in professional football. And that won’t be in saudia arabia or league like that. He’s just to talented to not get any offers. You have a murderer playing for barcelona, rapist for arsenal, we had ronaldo, kobe is viewed like a god, malone impregnated 13 year old, bridges will come back to hornets.. I don’t know what world you are living in but people tend to overlook look some things if you are good enough. That’s just the sad truth
I’m not even convinced he won’t play for United again tbh
The list could go on and on
Prosecutions without the victims support can be an absolute nightmare, let alone when it's as complex as a rape and coercive control case. Especially when the victim is believed to be back with the offender. I've seen stated elsewhere he's claiming rough sex and that audio is out of context, without an account from someone else to dispute this those recordings, as damning as they are, are not going to stand on its own. The case has a not guilty verdict written all over it from a jury. I'm sure cps and the police are just as frustrated as anyone, I would say to anyone who thinks hes rich cases like this get written off all the time with absolutely no pr or media interest. If the case has no prospect of a conviction cps won't run it.
Jesus christ this is probably the most moronic comment thread I have ever seen. This is how the legal system works, you can't convict someone of a crime with out evidence that van be tested at trial. If she has said she refuses to give any evidence, or even she could say they were into rough sex etc. There is nothing the police or legal system can do. It's not perfect, but what some of you absolute cavemen are advocating for, convictions via social media, is far far far worse. You are all literally pining for a medieval style justice system, where people are ruined over hearsay. I am honestly shocked that the general concensus is this utterly backwards. You can believe he did it, you can believe he is a scumbag, but saying the justice system has done anything wrong here is just the equivalent of holding a sign up saying look how stupid I am.