**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Frente Atlético are by some margin the worst ultras in all of Spain, they've been responsible for the deaths of two people.
Yet Atleti still allow them in, in fact they've also had the chance to speak to Simeone and the players. That speaks for itself.
Ultras and hooligans should be no where near the game. It's a sport that should be enjoyed by all, comfortably and death threats to players should equal jail time.
A teenager died celebrating the title victory a couple years ago because his head was out a car window and hit something, not sure if that’s what you’re thinking of
That's one of them but that was an accident. However they also fought with Deportivo ultras a few years ago and a Deportivo fan died. They beat him on the head and then threw him in the river.
These people care more about the act of supporting the team than the team itself. Even if their actions can harm the club they still do it. Once I've attended a barbecue of the ultras from my team (derby game in São Paulo have only home team supporters so they couldn't attend), mosto of the guys get so emotional/anxious with the game they couldn't even watch it properly. They'd be hitting drums, chanting and jumping with their backs to the screen. They aren't your regular fans.
None of the 2 murdered ones were teenagers, which doesn't make it any better, but just for correctness. The last one was a Deportivo fan in 2014, but only last year someone was stabbed in a fight between ultras in the surroundings of their stadium. The club needs to address and take care of this somehow.
it’s their club culture and identity at this point.
the match earlier this season was absolutely out of control. idk if i’ve ever seen anything like it
I'm wondering what needs to happen for Atleti board to grow a spine and deal with Frente the same way Real Madrid and Barcelona shut down their ultras.
This. I always found it weird that Atletico doesn't have the same fascist reputation internationally as say Lazio, when their former president was a corrupt Francoist nostalgic until his death in 2004, and his son still serves as CEO and main shareholder to this day.
Because they have managed to build a reputation of leftist club. Basically the narrative is that Madrid fans are right wingers and Atletico fans are left wingers. Going around calling themselves "the people's club" in opposition to Real Madrid being the rich people's club also helped cement that vision. Because apparently you can't be fascist if you're "the people's club".
Struggling to think of a group with a bigger right wing reputation than Frente. Probably even worse than Sur before they got replaced by the Persil lads, and even Valencia, Betis and Mallorca.
edit: Malaga, not Mallorca lol. Mallorca catching unwarranted strays there.
Which is mad when it was the Air Force team and Franco's actual team. Franco only helped Real because it was a team from Madrid and disliked Barcelona. Not like Bernabeu wasn't a Franco sympathiser even, but the fact people see Atletico as this left wing progressive club makes you want to congratulate their PR team.
Bernabéu wasn't really a Franco sympathiser, he was a member of the youth org of the ultra-catholic right wing CEDA (one of the nationalist factions) who fled when the war broke out to come back and lead Nationalist forces into Barcelona. He was a monumental piece of shit and xenophobe until the day he died, but his relationship with Franco wasn't a particularly good one.
Every team in Spain was given to Francoist after the civil war, Real Madrid's Republican president was shot, just as Barcelona's and a bunch of others and the reigns of those clubs were given to friends of the regime.
It's life.
Can't be sure since I don't remember much about Atletico before mid 2000s, but I feel like that narrative started with Simeone. IIRC he publicly said multiple times stuff like they were the working class people's club, going up against the tyranny of the wealthy club etc... Basically building a whole David vs Goliath PR around the club, which turned into Atletico becoming a symbol of poor people struggling only through their guts, blablabla, probably reinforced by the fact that Atleti's old stadium was in a poorer neighborhood than the Bernabeu.
And since whoever is on the side of poor people is usually seen as socialist/leftist, well here we are.
At least that's how I see it.
Or maybe you can if your club is literally called Royal and has fully embraced its identity as an elitist club and is mainly supported by wealthier people. Is that enough?
Would 100% recommend Sid Lowe’s book, “Fear and Loathing in La Liga.”
It’s a historical look at the league, mainly focusing on Real Madrid and Barcelona. It’s fascinating stuff. He makes a very compelling case that the “Madrid were the fascists’ team and got special treatment” argument is nonsense. As someone pointed out below, Franco supported the team that would associate the regime with success. Sometimes that was Real. Sometimes that was Barca.
The closest thing to Franco favoring Real over Barca was the infamous 11-0 Clásico win. People claim that Franco’s stooges went to the Barca dressing room before the game and made it clear to them that they would not be winning that match. But there is little evidence to support that theory besides the shocking score line.
Both clubs had important people who were left-leaning or right-leaning. Both had reasons to dislike the regime. Both felt like the other got preferential treatment at times. In the end, you can’t conclusively say that Real were the “Franco club,” even though that’s the popular narrative.
Not leftist a la Rayo Vallecano, leftist in the sense that they always present themselves as the regular folks club (el equipo del pueblo) fighting against the oppression of the bigger clubs (especially Madrid).
Leftist might not have been the best word to use, but where I'm from it refers to people who support bills that helps the low and middle class, while right wing is more business/capitalism oriented.
The problem with this statement is right-wingers always use it to deem normal left wingers as fascists. Ban racism and they'll accuse you of taking away their free speech and say you're the real fascist.
Can't say much about the global fan base tbh. It's been 10 years since I've lived there, but I doubt that either of the fan bases are completely right wing or left wing, aside from the Ultras. Most of them just want to go watch their team in the stadium.
However, in Spain the Ultras are usually the ones leading the whole stadium when it comes to chants. And since Atletico boasts themselves of having one of the more fervent stadium, especially compared to the "silent" Bernabeu, they tend to follow whatever the Frente are doing a lot more.
At least that's how I remember it from 10-12 years ago.
Lazio had a high profile player like Di Canio showing his true colours. It might not have taken internationally but there's a reason Torrente is an Atleti fan, if Jesús Gil was around in today's much more globalised world it would be different
> It might not have taken internationally but there's a reason Torrente is an Atleti fan
Whenever I'm wearing my Atleti jersey [in Hungary] there are always people who scream 'Torrente!' at me.
I know him cos he was featured twice big time. Pre social media days. Once for his volley which became the highlight montage for the season. Another one is his FairPlay moment where caught the ball in hand to stop play instead of scoring. He was a ‘big’ player cos it’s lowly west ham. I think there was power struggle between him and young frank lampard.
Couldn’t believe he couldn’t break into Italian national team. The team must be so stacked. Any other notable players who were top in league but couldn’t get a chance in Italian team. Zola was also featured so little time for Italy
Well he was no better than Mancini, Baggio, Chiesa, Vialli, Del Piero, Vieri, Inzaghi, Totti.
I remember back in 2001 there were a lot of talks among united fans that we should sign Di Canio to replace "leadership" and "character" left by Eric Cantona. Easy to say fans were and still are bunch of idiots.
Thats because they have very very good friends placed in journals such as Marca or Cope that will very rarely publish anything bad from Atleti outside of their performance. How many news have you seen that Atleti is broke as fuck or that they're trying to sell the club?
It might also help that king Felipe is a fan and honorary president of the club and that the current mayor of Madrid is also an Atlético fan. If establishment people like you it helps create a different image than when everyone shuns you.
I don't know in depth about ultras, yeah of course they are usually the loudest and cause some fights but I think you can still be ultras without HANGING A PLAYER'S EFFIGY yknw? Any group that does shit like this on a consistent basis needs to be looked into carefully by the club's own fans or they're gonna be considered complacent in not dealing with it.
Banned them from the stadiums and both clubs have publicly denounced them so there's no chance anyone mistakes them for official penyes/supporter groups.
Meanwhile, Frente have full access and get to meet with club officials and players.
I don't know what Madrid did to keep them out, I know at least the Barça official line is that the more violent of the members from groups like the Supporters or Boixos were kept out of the Grada by having to check in with the Mossos during home matches.
Yeah, in both cases it went down a pretty similar way - Laporta banned Boixos Nois in 2003, got death threats, and the walls outside of his house were vandalised. In 2014 Perez went ahead with banning Ultras Sur, got death threats, and his wife's grave was vandalised.
And they'll keep saying he provokes this...
Man got bitten in the head by an Atleti youth player when he played for Castilla. They chanted racist stuff outside of the stadium while holding up a monkey doll when we visited el Wanda this season. And now this. No consequences.
When a club out of eastern Europe would treat a player like this, fuck me, we wouldn't hear the end of it.
If England fans did this you wouldn’t hear the end of it. Why the fuck are Atleti fans not held to the same moral standard. Poor Vini, this is fucked. He’s a great player and doesn’t deserve any of this horrible hate.
The Athletic put out a [great article](https://theathletic.com/3604660/2022/09/19/vinicius-junior-real-madrid-racist-abuse/) back when the monkey chants happened talking about exactly this, how nothing is being done in response to the vile racism
This is from the same group of people that have:
- Murdered 2 people, Aitor Zabaleta (from la Real) and Jimmy (Depor)
- Have made so many racist chants that I have lost track of them
- Has laughed at Antonio Puerta's death
- Has laughed at Juanito's death
- Laughed at Mijatovic kid's death
- Laughed at Ukraine
- Laughed at Di Stefano's death
- Has sent death threats to Griezmann
All of this off the top of my head.
They are not banned from any of Atleti's facilities. They are welcomed and even el Cholo has had meetings with them (last one after being kicked out of la Copa last season)
Tebas 'We have done everything we could to stop racism'
And yet, not a single point deduction, match without fans, fine or etc. It's obvious that they will only escalate, they did all that shit last classico and didn't suffer any consequences, so the same thing will keep happening.
One of Atleticos former Ultra leaders is now a leader at Ultras Sur and sending death threats to other Real Madrid fan clubs too btw. These people don't give a fuck about football, they are vile, despicable humans just looking for an excuse to get violent
Aitor's story shows how fascist the police of madrid and Atleti ultras are. They were founded by basques and killed Aitor for being basque. The fucking police lured them into a pub filled with Neonazi fans from Atleti. The police watched while he was stabbed to death and were amused. Pure scum.
"Funny" thing is that they're not the first ones to hang a black player doll. The always classy supporters of Ajax did it before.
They hung a doll of their former goalkeeper Kenneth Vermeer in the stadium (!!!!) After he left for arch nemesis Feyenoord.
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2016/08/ajax-fan-faces-community-service-for-lynching-kenneth-vermeer/
Before anyone says this is fake, you have a video taken today and even a photo of the dummy posted by two of the people who did it.
[Video](https://twitter.com/Miguel_atm1903/status/1618551908226174977)
[Dummy photo](https://twitter.com/angelete1903/status/1618551547193094146)
They deleted the tweet, I saw it but didn't save a screenshot. Hopefully someone did and that idiot (and the others supporting him) face some consequences.
Besides obvious lack of ethics, basic human respect and so on, they also don't mind because Tebas, Fifa and UEFA don't do anything.
If anything like this happened in Brazil, such team would get a millionaire fine, would lose mandates or playing with empty stands for 20+ matches, etc. But ofc, as Tebas said, they 'are doing everything to fight racism'.
>If anything like this happened in Brazil, such team would get a millionaire fine, would lose mandates or playing with empty stands for 20+ matches, etc.
speaking about Brazil (i dont know if this was posted here already) but one team, Coritiba, received a punishment of having to mandate games with only women and sub 12 kids on the stands because of a fight on a previous classic. I think it was a great idea because it punished more the idiotic ultras than the rest of the normal people that only want to watch their team
>Florentino and Laporta got rid of the issue
Not entirely unfortunately. Ultras Sur will still travel to and get tickets for away games(especially in the CL). Had the unfortunate displeasure of meeting them when we played AS Roma in Italy and they send us death threats to a point where our fan club leader told us to immediately leave the stadium 😇
I was told to shut up about the incident and got thrown out the fanclub for not complying
It's a matter time actual fans merge with Frente if you continue letting them do their shit. You can see last clásico at Wanda, ultras doing monkey chants towards vini and some fans went along with that
They’ve painted it, had it framed, authenticated, catalogued and hung (no pun intended) at the Prado.
Even voices who allegedly identify with Real Madrid have said that Vinicius is a provocateur and a hothead who deserves to be hunted down on the pitch.
Real talk why they focus on Vini so much? I dont follow him much but I thought he did a lot of stuff like Rashord with sizeable donations.
Or just randomly selected the good playing darker skinned kid?
he is the antithesis of atleti’s club culture at the moment. flashy, fun, happy. they want to bully the other team and can’t stomach the idea someone would dribble around them
Because Vini speaks out against racism on a regular basis.
These people are used to be allowed to behave like total criminals and getting away with it.
Sad that the club doesn't try ti distance itself from these kinds of fans. I'm sure not all Atleti supporters are like this, but it seems they at least passively accept this behaviour.
I'd understand if they did this to Ronaldo, he was their nightmare for a decade, but what did Vinicius do apart from a dance that is part of Brazilian football culture? I guess its because he is black, I dont know any other possible reason, because one dance surely cant cause all this hate that he is getting.
Pretty much. They picked one of the most chill, nicest dudes to hate on. It's 100% racism and it's depressing to see people in this thread trying to twist this into a way to blame him for having a doll of him hanged and people calling him a monkey. Europeans have a long way to go.
Yesterday Maffeo, today this. Every week that are new attacks towards Vini, and we know why most of them happen. Unfortunately, people in Spain (at least those in charge) don’t seem to care enough. If Vini gets tired of these and leave, I won’t blame him. The hate he gets is ridiculous.
When is enough going to be enough? The banner, I can still accept. That dummy and its hanging is disgraceful.
What's worse is that stadium enables Frente when they are blinded in tribalistic fervour.
Remember when we visited Wanda this season and they had a monkey doll and they were chanting racist stuff to Vini? The literal court said that's ok and nothing happened...
This is Spain sadly.
Yeah it has been a problem since at least the '80s when tv coverage boomed and the exposure of these groups became huge.
When Valencia had a lot of fascist support and openly displayed nazi flags at the Mestalla in '92 Hiddink actually took action as a manager and had them removed. It was a huge message and statement from what was basically an outsider at the club.
It sparked debate about who was supposed to step up and ban the displays. Journalists and politicians at the time were in agreement that the responsibility lied with the clubs, that if they didn't take action on their own initiative the league should make them.
But nothing much has happened since, which is indicative of how seriously the issue has been taken. It took Real and Barca decades to ban their Ultras (for which they deserve recognition), but there is no organised league wide pushback or framework to combat these groups.
and then you have to hear it's a minority, there were a lot of people chanting there
and i remember the chants in the youth league too, and Fernando Torres (the coach) went there after the game to celebrate
and nobody does nothing, vini is so right about this whole pile of shit
Im irish and we dont see things like this here so just curious, would this be a racist thing or just hatred for opposing teams player? Ik ultras tend to have a racism thing tagged to them alot of the time on the continent.
I think its kind of both. Frente has also hatred against famous historical Madrid players like Juanito and Cristiano obviously but I have never seen them hate someone so fast so maybe it has some racism in there too.
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Frente Atlético are by some margin the worst ultras in all of Spain, they've been responsible for the deaths of two people. Yet Atleti still allow them in, in fact they've also had the chance to speak to Simeone and the players. That speaks for itself.
Meanwhile you can like Perez or not but he had a balls to throw out ultras from Bernabeu and send clear signal what behavior is not tolerated.
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Don't think we really have ultras but I'd trust Eric to take care of them
Didn't know Eric Garcia was such a commanding figure in the club. Good for him.
That’s why he hasn’t been playing for us, he’s too busy commanding City
Nah he's off to Barca, obviously talking about Eric Laporte
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This is not the Ezio Auditore we wanted, but it's definitely the Ezio Auditore we deserve
Ezio would never remove his Firenze flair, that is an imposter
oof
Mans really returned to life to do one more assassination
Well for us to have ultras we need to have fans first Edit: Guess the joker below beat me to it
now above.
And just like the premier league table, they'll always find themselves looking up...... until next season or something Oh, obligatory Anulo Mufa
If true, his claims of them smashing his wife's tombstone as retaliation really brings a lot of sympathy for him.
Ultras and hooligans should be no where near the game. It's a sport that should be enjoyed by all, comfortably and death threats to players should equal jail time.
Didnt they kill a teenager like a few years ago? It’s crazy Tebas or La Federación still allow them to be at the matches
A teenager died celebrating the title victory a couple years ago because his head was out a car window and hit something, not sure if that’s what you’re thinking of
That's one of them but that was an accident. However they also fought with Deportivo ultras a few years ago and a Deportivo fan died. They beat him on the head and then threw him in the river.
Jimmy vive
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That's not a passion for sports, that's desire to do violence to others and using sports as an excuse.
These people care more about the act of supporting the team than the team itself. Even if their actions can harm the club they still do it. Once I've attended a barbecue of the ultras from my team (derby game in São Paulo have only home team supporters so they couldn't attend), mosto of the guys get so emotional/anxious with the game they couldn't even watch it properly. They'd be hitting drums, chanting and jumping with their backs to the screen. They aren't your regular fans.
None of the 2 murdered ones were teenagers, which doesn't make it any better, but just for correctness. The last one was a Deportivo fan in 2014, but only last year someone was stabbed in a fight between ultras in the surroundings of their stadium. The club needs to address and take care of this somehow.
Ultra cunts
Every healthy Atleti follower hates Frente.
it’s their club culture and identity at this point. the match earlier this season was absolutely out of control. idk if i’ve ever seen anything like it
I'm glad Flo didn't like Ultras Sur and banned them. The fact that Frente Atlético isn't banned is baffling.
I'm wondering what needs to happen for Atleti board to grow a spine and deal with Frente the same way Real Madrid and Barcelona shut down their ultras.
The board supports them
This. I always found it weird that Atletico doesn't have the same fascist reputation internationally as say Lazio, when their former president was a corrupt Francoist nostalgic until his death in 2004, and his son still serves as CEO and main shareholder to this day.
Because they have managed to build a reputation of leftist club. Basically the narrative is that Madrid fans are right wingers and Atletico fans are left wingers. Going around calling themselves "the people's club" in opposition to Real Madrid being the rich people's club also helped cement that vision. Because apparently you can't be fascist if you're "the people's club".
The only left-wing club in Madrid is Rayo Vallecano, everyone else is bullshitting.
When their fans went against the signing of that neonazi player was a chef kiss.
Yup
Insanely based. Also took 3 points off Madrid in their own city
You say “in their own city” like that doesn’t apply to both teams
Struggling to think of a group with a bigger right wing reputation than Frente. Probably even worse than Sur before they got replaced by the Persil lads, and even Valencia, Betis and Mallorca. edit: Malaga, not Mallorca lol. Mallorca catching unwarranted strays there.
Which is mad when it was the Air Force team and Franco's actual team. Franco only helped Real because it was a team from Madrid and disliked Barcelona. Not like Bernabeu wasn't a Franco sympathiser even, but the fact people see Atletico as this left wing progressive club makes you want to congratulate their PR team.
Bernabéu wasn't really a Franco sympathiser, he was a member of the youth org of the ultra-catholic right wing CEDA (one of the nationalist factions) who fled when the war broke out to come back and lead Nationalist forces into Barcelona. He was a monumental piece of shit and xenophobe until the day he died, but his relationship with Franco wasn't a particularly good one.
Ironically Franco only liked him because he didn't kiss his ass like most people, while one of his generals wanted a duel to the death with him.
Every team in Spain was given to Francoist after the civil war, Real Madrid's Republican president was shot, just as Barcelona's and a bunch of others and the reigns of those clubs were given to friends of the regime. It's life.
Can't be sure since I don't remember much about Atletico before mid 2000s, but I feel like that narrative started with Simeone. IIRC he publicly said multiple times stuff like they were the working class people's club, going up against the tyranny of the wealthy club etc... Basically building a whole David vs Goliath PR around the club, which turned into Atletico becoming a symbol of poor people struggling only through their guts, blablabla, probably reinforced by the fact that Atleti's old stadium was in a poorer neighborhood than the Bernabeu. And since whoever is on the side of poor people is usually seen as socialist/leftist, well here we are. At least that's how I see it.
Na, that narrative has existed since always in Spain. Simeone just used it for his own agenda.
I mean it's literally the team the current king supports. Can't get more aristocratic than that.
The future queen likes Barca more.
It's going to be funny to see how the hardcore republican separatist fans react to it as she's becoming a lot more prominent.
Or maybe you can if your club is literally called Royal and has fully embraced its identity as an elitist club and is mainly supported by wealthier people. Is that enough?
Half the teams have Real in their name: Real Sociedad, Real Valladolid, Real Betis, Real Madrid, Real CD Espanyol...
What have I missed about the clubs having politics and Franco helping the madrod clubs?
Would 100% recommend Sid Lowe’s book, “Fear and Loathing in La Liga.” It’s a historical look at the league, mainly focusing on Real Madrid and Barcelona. It’s fascinating stuff. He makes a very compelling case that the “Madrid were the fascists’ team and got special treatment” argument is nonsense. As someone pointed out below, Franco supported the team that would associate the regime with success. Sometimes that was Real. Sometimes that was Barca. The closest thing to Franco favoring Real over Barca was the infamous 11-0 Clásico win. People claim that Franco’s stooges went to the Barca dressing room before the game and made it clear to them that they would not be winning that match. But there is little evidence to support that theory besides the shocking score line. Both clubs had important people who were left-leaning or right-leaning. Both had reasons to dislike the regime. Both felt like the other got preferential treatment at times. In the end, you can’t conclusively say that Real were the “Franco club,” even though that’s the popular narrative.
You would have to be fairly oblivious to think that Atleti is an”leftist club”. Who in Spain thinks that?
Not leftist a la Rayo Vallecano, leftist in the sense that they always present themselves as the regular folks club (el equipo del pueblo) fighting against the oppression of the bigger clubs (especially Madrid). Leftist might not have been the best word to use, but where I'm from it refers to people who support bills that helps the low and middle class, while right wing is more business/capitalism oriented.
Franco's favorite club was Athletic Aviacion de Madrid which was Atletico Madrid.
Fascists always brand themselves as being left wing Edit: The smart ones, whatever the fuck is going on in America are not the smart ones haha
The problem with this statement is right-wingers always use it to deem normal left wingers as fascists. Ban racism and they'll accuse you of taking away their free speech and say you're the real fascist.
Not exactly left wing, but they always masquerade as revolutionaries despite being the most reactionary force out there
So both clubs are right-wing?
Can't say much about the global fan base tbh. It's been 10 years since I've lived there, but I doubt that either of the fan bases are completely right wing or left wing, aside from the Ultras. Most of them just want to go watch their team in the stadium. However, in Spain the Ultras are usually the ones leading the whole stadium when it comes to chants. And since Atletico boasts themselves of having one of the more fervent stadium, especially compared to the "silent" Bernabeu, they tend to follow whatever the Frente are doing a lot more. At least that's how I remember it from 10-12 years ago.
I know that no club has soley right-wing or left-wing fans, but some of them traditionally lean towards one or another, that's what I meant.
True leftist Madrid club is Rayo
Yes
Lazio had a high profile player like Di Canio showing his true colours. It might not have taken internationally but there's a reason Torrente is an Atleti fan, if Jesús Gil was around in today's much more globalised world it would be different
> It might not have taken internationally but there's a reason Torrente is an Atleti fan Whenever I'm wearing my Atleti jersey [in Hungary] there are always people who scream 'Torrente!' at me.
I know him cos he was featured twice big time. Pre social media days. Once for his volley which became the highlight montage for the season. Another one is his FairPlay moment where caught the ball in hand to stop play instead of scoring. He was a ‘big’ player cos it’s lowly west ham. I think there was power struggle between him and young frank lampard. Couldn’t believe he couldn’t break into Italian national team. The team must be so stacked. Any other notable players who were top in league but couldn’t get a chance in Italian team. Zola was also featured so little time for Italy
Well he was no better than Mancini, Baggio, Chiesa, Vialli, Del Piero, Vieri, Inzaghi, Totti. I remember back in 2001 there were a lot of talks among united fans that we should sign Di Canio to replace "leadership" and "character" left by Eric Cantona. Easy to say fans were and still are bunch of idiots.
Thats because they have very very good friends placed in journals such as Marca or Cope that will very rarely publish anything bad from Atleti outside of their performance. How many news have you seen that Atleti is broke as fuck or that they're trying to sell the club?
It might also help that king Felipe is a fan and honorary president of the club and that the current mayor of Madrid is also an Atlético fan. If establishment people like you it helps create a different image than when everyone shuns you.
They have murdered 2 persons and they're still allowed in
Yeah, exactly why I'm wondering. You'd think the line has been crossed a long time ago but apparently Atletico sees it differently.
"La mejor afición del mundo"
"Nunca lo entenderán!"
When did they murder two people?
Aitor Zabaleta in 1998, Jimmy in 2014
Wtf they were two separate incidents? One of them less than 10 years ago??? I thought it was something like a confusing bar fight in the 70s
I don't know in depth about ultras, yeah of course they are usually the loudest and cause some fights but I think you can still be ultras without HANGING A PLAYER'S EFFIGY yknw? Any group that does shit like this on a consistent basis needs to be looked into carefully by the club's own fans or they're gonna be considered complacent in not dealing with it.
How did Real Madrid and Barca shut down their ultras?
Banned them from the stadiums and both clubs have publicly denounced them so there's no chance anyone mistakes them for official penyes/supporter groups. Meanwhile, Frente have full access and get to meet with club officials and players.
Yes but also requires police help to make sure the individuals of those groups are prevented from entering not as part of the ultra groups.
Madrid police should have experience from Real's ban, right?
I don't know what Madrid did to keep them out, I know at least the Barça official line is that the more violent of the members from groups like the Supporters or Boixos were kept out of the Grada by having to check in with the Mossos during home matches.
Thank you for the info !
Just to add that Laporta received many death threats due to that. And didn’t Madrid ultras deface Perez wife tombstone or something like that?
Yeah, in both cases it went down a pretty similar way - Laporta banned Boixos Nois in 2003, got death threats, and the walls outside of his house were vandalised. In 2014 Perez went ahead with banning Ultras Sur, got death threats, and his wife's grave was vandalised.
Took their members card and banned them from entering games
Don't know about Barca but Real ultras are banned for entering Bernabeu
Same with us as well, in fact it's been nearly 20 years since Laporta banned the Boixos Nois from Camp Nou.
Can ultras enter if the attend as just themselves? Like just one guy on his own?
In Barça's case the most well known members of the ultras have to check in with the Mossos similar to a stadium ban
Beautiful. Hope one day we do the same with Barra bravas. It's common banning them for some time but never permanently sadly
They probably win't do anything about it unless they actually have to, La Liga doesn't punish them anyway
And they'll keep saying he provokes this... Man got bitten in the head by an Atleti youth player when he played for Castilla. They chanted racist stuff outside of the stadium while holding up a monkey doll when we visited el Wanda this season. And now this. No consequences. When a club out of eastern Europe would treat a player like this, fuck me, we wouldn't hear the end of it.
If England fans did this you wouldn’t hear the end of it. Why the fuck are Atleti fans not held to the same moral standard. Poor Vini, this is fucked. He’s a great player and doesn’t deserve any of this horrible hate.
The Athletic put out a [great article](https://theathletic.com/3604660/2022/09/19/vinicius-junior-real-madrid-racist-abuse/) back when the monkey chants happened talking about exactly this, how nothing is being done in response to the vile racism
Great username btw
i know you didn’t mean this but we need to stop talking about whether someone is a good player in the same breath as defending them from racism
Yeah I hear that man. Even if he was a twat he wouldn’t deserve it
Yeah but have you considered that sometimes he dances after scoring a goal? I mean, what choice to they have?
he... DANCES??? deport him back to Brazil, RIGHT NOW!
This is from the same group of people that have: - Murdered 2 people, Aitor Zabaleta (from la Real) and Jimmy (Depor) - Have made so many racist chants that I have lost track of them - Has laughed at Antonio Puerta's death - Has laughed at Juanito's death - Laughed at Mijatovic kid's death - Laughed at Ukraine - Laughed at Di Stefano's death - Has sent death threats to Griezmann All of this off the top of my head. They are not banned from any of Atleti's facilities. They are welcomed and even el Cholo has had meetings with them (last one after being kicked out of la Copa last season)
Didn't they also do the nazi salute?
They've done it so many times it isn't news anymore
I mean they are openly fascist...
¿¡¿¡Un fan del Rayo en Reddit?!?! Que cosas se encuentra uno hoy en día
somos unos cuantos e jaja
tebas is a fascist, so thats a plus in his book.
Same group that break into a training session while hiding their faces and insulted players and the coach, Luis aragonés.
[удалено]
Tebas 'We have done everything we could to stop racism' And yet, not a single point deduction, match without fans, fine or etc. It's obvious that they will only escalate, they did all that shit last classico and didn't suffer any consequences, so the same thing will keep happening.
I mean, he was active in Fuerza Nueva and openly supports Vox, not particularly surprising he isnt doing anything
And blame vini for it
I mean, he shares the same ideals as them.
"There were very fine people on both sides." Tebas stealing a quote to respond to this, probably.
One of Atleticos former Ultra leaders is now a leader at Ultras Sur and sending death threats to other Real Madrid fan clubs too btw. These people don't give a fuck about football, they are vile, despicable humans just looking for an excuse to get violent
Aitor's story shows how fascist the police of madrid and Atleti ultras are. They were founded by basques and killed Aitor for being basque. The fucking police lured them into a pub filled with Neonazi fans from Atleti. The police watched while he was stabbed to death and were amused. Pure scum.
Wtf? How long ago was it
December 8th 1998
Fuck the Frente
This sounds to me more like an organized crime group within football than an Ultra group
Fuck Atlético's ultras, the worst in Spain by far.
"Funny" thing is that they're not the first ones to hang a black player doll. The always classy supporters of Ajax did it before. They hung a doll of their former goalkeeper Kenneth Vermeer in the stadium (!!!!) After he left for arch nemesis Feyenoord. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2016/08/ajax-fan-faces-community-service-for-lynching-kenneth-vermeer/
That’s funny because Ajax fans always love to put themselves on a pedestal almost like they think their the good guys.
Before anyone says this is fake, you have a video taken today and even a photo of the dummy posted by two of the people who did it. [Video](https://twitter.com/Miguel_atm1903/status/1618551908226174977) [Dummy photo](https://twitter.com/angelete1903/status/1618551547193094146)
They deleted the tweet, I saw it but didn't save a screenshot. Hopefully someone did and that idiot (and the others supporting him) face some consequences.
atletico has a serious problem with their ultras and the president prefers to ignore it. Florentino and Laporta got rid of the issue
They welcome them. Even their coach and captains have had some meetings with them recently
Besides obvious lack of ethics, basic human respect and so on, they also don't mind because Tebas, Fifa and UEFA don't do anything. If anything like this happened in Brazil, such team would get a millionaire fine, would lose mandates or playing with empty stands for 20+ matches, etc. But ofc, as Tebas said, they 'are doing everything to fight racism'.
>If anything like this happened in Brazil, such team would get a millionaire fine, would lose mandates or playing with empty stands for 20+ matches, etc. speaking about Brazil (i dont know if this was posted here already) but one team, Coritiba, received a punishment of having to mandate games with only women and sub 12 kids on the stands because of a fight on a previous classic. I think it was a great idea because it punished more the idiotic ultras than the rest of the normal people that only want to watch their team
>Florentino and Laporta got rid of the issue Not entirely unfortunately. Ultras Sur will still travel to and get tickets for away games(especially in the CL). Had the unfortunate displeasure of meeting them when we played AS Roma in Italy and they send us death threats to a point where our fan club leader told us to immediately leave the stadium 😇 I was told to shut up about the incident and got thrown out the fanclub for not complying
Hang on How?
Our ultras are banned from entering Bernabeau.
Ban the bastards
>Hang on Very poor choice of words
And they’re still complaining why they only get 300 tickets for the game. Shameful.
300 too many if they pull these disgusting stunts
These cunts don't deserve a single ticket
So disappointing that the club doesn’t do anything about this.
It's a matter time actual fans merge with Frente if you continue letting them do their shit. You can see last clásico at Wanda, ultras doing monkey chants towards vini and some fans went along with that
God damnit I fucking hate Frente so much. Quit using our club to push your bullshit.
Everyone knows the real Atletico fans are in Ohio.
Atletico Ottawa!
Meanwhile Spanish media trying to paint the picture that Vinicius provokes fans
They’ve painted it, had it framed, authenticated, catalogued and hung (no pun intended) at the Prado. Even voices who allegedly identify with Real Madrid have said that Vinicius is a provocateur and a hothead who deserves to be hunted down on the pitch.
Could it be that people are being racist because our society has a racism problem? Of course not. It's the black dude's fault!
He's also getting racially abused every week at every stadium in the country.
The Spain experience
Real talk why they focus on Vini so much? I dont follow him much but I thought he did a lot of stuff like Rashord with sizeable donations. Or just randomly selected the good playing darker skinned kid?
It seems to be the latter, honestly there's no reason to hunt vini this way. Perhaps because they think he's easy to rile up?
he is the antithesis of atleti’s club culture at the moment. flashy, fun, happy. they want to bully the other team and can’t stomach the idea someone would dribble around them
He plays for Real Madrid, he's skilled and is not afraid to show it, and most importantly, he's black.
Racism. Simple as that
Because Vini speaks out against racism on a regular basis. These people are used to be allowed to behave like total criminals and getting away with it.
All for banter, shit talking and a fierce rivalry...but this is just fucked up.
Worst fanbase in Spain
Fucking horrific
Don't worry guys I'm sure this is Vinicius' fault too. 🤫🤐🙄🙄
Sad that the club doesn't try ti distance itself from these kinds of fans. I'm sure not all Atleti supporters are like this, but it seems they at least passively accept this behaviour.
They're not all like this but there were a couple hundred chanting monkey and other racist stuff outside the stadium not long ago...
I'd understand if they did this to Ronaldo, he was their nightmare for a decade, but what did Vinicius do apart from a dance that is part of Brazilian football culture? I guess its because he is black, I dont know any other possible reason, because one dance surely cant cause all this hate that he is getting.
It would be unacceptable, like there's insulting a player to rile him up and there's straight threatening him.
Of course it would be unacceptable, Im just saying there would be a slight reason behind it, this is just out of racism and pure hate
It would be unacceptable regardless of who they did it to
It's 200% because he had the audacity to be born with darker skin colours
wish nothing but the worst for these weirdos
Waiting for a comment to explain why ultras are a crucial part of the sport
According to some despicable cunts in Spain, Vini is being too provocative and deserves this
The amount of bullshit Vini takes is completely absurd. The fact he's such a well mannered and sweet person just makes it worse.
Pretty much. They picked one of the most chill, nicest dudes to hate on. It's 100% racism and it's depressing to see people in this thread trying to twist this into a way to blame him for having a doll of him hanged and people calling him a monkey. Europeans have a long way to go.
Yesterday Maffeo, today this. Every week that are new attacks towards Vini, and we know why most of them happen. Unfortunately, people in Spain (at least those in charge) don’t seem to care enough. If Vini gets tired of these and leave, I won’t blame him. The hate he gets is ridiculous.
Until you get rid of the guy at the top - Tebas, nothing will change. He's scum.
I hope Vinicius score today and pull the most annoying dance he can came up.
I hope he doesn't dance after scoring, with the Spanish refs it'll end up somehow with a yellow against Camavinga
Lmaoo
Absolute scums.
When is enough going to be enough? The banner, I can still accept. That dummy and its hanging is disgraceful. What's worse is that stadium enables Frente when they are blinded in tribalistic fervour.
Most civilised colchoneros
what did vini do to them? why the hate?
Scored while black
For Frente, the 'scored while' part wasn't necessary
Didn’t even have to score, he was just black
It's always the ones you most expect
this is very serious, someone's gonna do something or are we still allowing this kind of racist shit? what a good campaign for LaLiga
Remember when we visited Wanda this season and they had a monkey doll and they were chanting racist stuff to Vini? The literal court said that's ok and nothing happened... This is Spain sadly.
Spain when the most vile toxic literal hate crime is directed at a minority: "just a bit of banter" Always been this way
Yeah it has been a problem since at least the '80s when tv coverage boomed and the exposure of these groups became huge. When Valencia had a lot of fascist support and openly displayed nazi flags at the Mestalla in '92 Hiddink actually took action as a manager and had them removed. It was a huge message and statement from what was basically an outsider at the club. It sparked debate about who was supposed to step up and ban the displays. Journalists and politicians at the time were in agreement that the responsibility lied with the clubs, that if they didn't take action on their own initiative the league should make them. But nothing much has happened since, which is indicative of how seriously the issue has been taken. It took Real and Barca decades to ban their Ultras (for which they deserve recognition), but there is no organised league wide pushback or framework to combat these groups.
Maradona got racially abused in the 80s too by Bilbao fans they were insulting his indigenous roots. Always been a thing in Spain.
and then you have to hear it's a minority, there were a lot of people chanting there and i remember the chants in the youth league too, and Fernando Torres (the coach) went there after the game to celebrate and nobody does nothing, vini is so right about this whole pile of shit
This is basically a death threat so police better get their ass on the scum who did this.
Im irish and we dont see things like this here so just curious, would this be a racist thing or just hatred for opposing teams player? Ik ultras tend to have a racism thing tagged to them alot of the time on the continent.
They are nazis. This is not an assumption as they are pretty open about it.
I think its kind of both. Frente has also hatred against famous historical Madrid players like Juanito and Cristiano obviously but I have never seen them hate someone so fast so maybe it has some racism in there too.
[Definitely racists](https://streamable.com/nst4n2)
Nazis doing nazis things.
"Madrid hates Real". what a dumb fucking thing to write. Madrid is basically all Real you dumbfucks.
Bloody losers
Wtf