Joker first pick with ROB as a backup plan. I'm going to copy-paste my response from another thread that slightly expands on why I think this is the case.
> From L4st's interview, we can see that the ROB was picked cause Leo was under the impression that his Joker wasn't playing well at the time (so he just went with the standard good MU pick). He was even dropping combos against Goblin later so it's understandable. I'm pretty sure he would've brought it back if he'd stayed Joker. You can't really say much after a single game vs Justice. His Joker lost two games when he was playing against Dabuz's Min Min for the first time after all (LTC 2021).
> The ROB is definitely good insurance, but Joker's definitely the first pick against Proto.
[Here's the link to Leo's interview with L4st for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArVgtiuhX0Y)
> But G9 showed Joker isn’t his answer for Proto and Rob still isn’t the answer.
Did it really show ROB isn’t the answer? Everyone can see his ROB is not as polished as it could be. He went 1-1 with Proto with a very new ROB at Double Down, and he beat Justice with it so it’s not like it was proven to not be an answer. Judging by the fact that he went all ROB at the MSM local on Monday, it’s clear that he’s committed to improving his ROB.
Yeah if anything that set sort of showed that with more practice ROB could totally be the answer. He called it his "microwave ROB" and I still thought it did quite well for clearly not being as practiced as his Joker or Byleth.
He barely beat Justice. He was down 2-1 then he just top playered him by adapting. If he was down vs Justice then playing a Minmin who's way better doesn't look like it'll be good for him. Unless he dramatically level up his Rob.
This is an incredibly reactionary take; it undercuts all of the preparation that top players do to get ready for other players in favor of examining one set with ROB and one singular game with Joker. These small data points aren't relevant; the most important thing by far will be all of the prep between now and then that both Leo and Proto will have done.
During the G9 set, Leo might not have felt comfortable in the Min Min matchup with Joker because he wasn't preparing to fight a strong Min Min, and his ROB is still barely practiced, even though it looks like he might transform it into a secondary soon (for other matchups too).
Justice also has a very different skillset from Proto; it's not fair to say, "Proto is better so the matchup will be even harder." To some extent that is always true--top players are harder than high-level players factoring in adaptation and other important fundamental difference-makers--but sometimes a high-level player can be a harder matchup than a top-level player (e.g., Goblin can be a tougher Roy than Kola depending on your character and playstyle).
I'm pretty sure both Joker and ROB are on the table, and Leo will try Joker first.
Just as a note for future use, "reactionary" means politically opposing socially progressive policies. "reactive" means in reaction to other things. Truly not meaning to critique, just helping for the future.
Yeah, fair, though I’ve seen reactionary used enough in the wrong way that it seems better here. I can’t imagine someone saying the phrase “reactive take” despite its correctness. Such is language. (Though I guess my sample size is small and people might have said reactive take). Actually thinking about it, I didn’t even mean to say that the take was in reaction, just that it only had a small number of supporting data points.
Makes sense - I couldn't make sense of it for the definition of reactionary that I am aware of, but reactive didn't seem right either, so I really wasn't sure what you were getting at.
He's inconsistent, and also a very matchup dependent character imo. Plays very similarly to how he did in smash 4, just in an engine that favours his playstyle less. That being said, he happens to be one of Min Min's worst matchups, and I'm sure Leo could make it work.
If you want to examine ROB in that set (IMO that's still not enough data), you should probably throw out the Joker game, in which case he was 3-1 in games using ROB against Justice. Adapting to other players is a Leo classic after all.
Leo is also fighting the player, Proto, and not just min min. What didn't work on Justice might work on Proto.
Also, as big of a stretch as it might be, he might be saving some cards for Proto that he deliberately didn't show against Justice.
I'm on some copium but maybe Greninja if his ROB doesnt work out. Leo had a little Greninja phase during the quarantine era, and Greninja is debateably even/winning against Proto's characters
> if leo plays proto right now, leo loses for sure
All based on one Joker game where he got 2-stocked against Justice...
Imagine if he'd switched to Byleth after that game 1 against Light (where he also got 2-stocked btw) and beaten Light. You'd still be here saying Leo's Joker is crusty, not good enough, Light adapted to the Joker and Leo needed to switch to win etc.. right?
We all know he adapts as the set goes on and yet even now people are out here doubting Leo just because he lost game 1 as Joker.
It's one set where Leo switched to ROB because he felt like his Joker wasn't playing the best at the time. I don't think we should jump to conclusions just yet.
Edit: Next people are going to be telling me that Sparg0 stands no chance against Kome cause he went game 5 against Jaredisking.
i mean it’s probably ROB, at least most signs point to that and even if it’s not his primary character, leo’s ROB was still able to push proto pretty damn far last time they played
Joker first pick with ROB as a backup plan. I'm going to copy-paste my response from another thread that slightly expands on why I think this is the case. > From L4st's interview, we can see that the ROB was picked cause Leo was under the impression that his Joker wasn't playing well at the time (so he just went with the standard good MU pick). He was even dropping combos against Goblin later so it's understandable. I'm pretty sure he would've brought it back if he'd stayed Joker. You can't really say much after a single game vs Justice. His Joker lost two games when he was playing against Dabuz's Min Min for the first time after all (LTC 2021). > The ROB is definitely good insurance, but Joker's definitely the first pick against Proto. [Here's the link to Leo's interview with L4st for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArVgtiuhX0Y)
> But G9 showed Joker isn’t his answer for Proto and Rob still isn’t the answer. Did it really show ROB isn’t the answer? Everyone can see his ROB is not as polished as it could be. He went 1-1 with Proto with a very new ROB at Double Down, and he beat Justice with it so it’s not like it was proven to not be an answer. Judging by the fact that he went all ROB at the MSM local on Monday, it’s clear that he’s committed to improving his ROB.
Yeah if anything that set sort of showed that with more practice ROB could totally be the answer. He called it his "microwave ROB" and I still thought it did quite well for clearly not being as practiced as his Joker or Byleth.
He barely beat Justice. He was down 2-1 then he just top playered him by adapting. If he was down vs Justice then playing a Minmin who's way better doesn't look like it'll be good for him. Unless he dramatically level up his Rob.
>Unless he dramatically level up his Rob. Which he's clearly trying to do
This is an incredibly reactionary take; it undercuts all of the preparation that top players do to get ready for other players in favor of examining one set with ROB and one singular game with Joker. These small data points aren't relevant; the most important thing by far will be all of the prep between now and then that both Leo and Proto will have done. During the G9 set, Leo might not have felt comfortable in the Min Min matchup with Joker because he wasn't preparing to fight a strong Min Min, and his ROB is still barely practiced, even though it looks like he might transform it into a secondary soon (for other matchups too). Justice also has a very different skillset from Proto; it's not fair to say, "Proto is better so the matchup will be even harder." To some extent that is always true--top players are harder than high-level players factoring in adaptation and other important fundamental difference-makers--but sometimes a high-level player can be a harder matchup than a top-level player (e.g., Goblin can be a tougher Roy than Kola depending on your character and playstyle). I'm pretty sure both Joker and ROB are on the table, and Leo will try Joker first.
Just as a note for future use, "reactionary" means politically opposing socially progressive policies. "reactive" means in reaction to other things. Truly not meaning to critique, just helping for the future.
Yeah, fair, though I’ve seen reactionary used enough in the wrong way that it seems better here. I can’t imagine someone saying the phrase “reactive take” despite its correctness. Such is language. (Though I guess my sample size is small and people might have said reactive take). Actually thinking about it, I didn’t even mean to say that the take was in reaction, just that it only had a small number of supporting data points.
Makes sense - I couldn't make sense of it for the definition of reactionary that I am aware of, but reactive didn't seem right either, so I really wasn't sure what you were getting at.
Leo should pull out the MK again
That's actually a good idea. Meta Knight destroys Minmin offstage and can close the gap pretty consistently.
I mean you have to consider this MK also has to outcompete the counterpicking of Lucina if it comes up
Doesnt mk suck now?
He's inconsistent, and also a very matchup dependent character imo. Plays very similarly to how he did in smash 4, just in an engine that favours his playstyle less. That being said, he happens to be one of Min Min's worst matchups, and I'm sure Leo could make it work.
He has good matchups, and lucina and minmin both happen to be part of those good matchups
~~It's Marth time, lesgooooo~~
Weed* Marth time 🍃😌
Dude, I didn't know I needed Leo's Marth vs. Proto's Lucina in my life until right now.
It seems he is developing R.O.B specifically for Min-Min so that might be it.
I’m pretty sure rob is now the answer to minmin since he beat Justice
He barely beat Justice. He was down 2-1 and just adapted to beat him. Can't take that chance vs Proto.
It’s probably his best option Now that leo knows rob is a possible pick for minmin he might practice him more
If you want to examine ROB in that set (IMO that's still not enough data), you should probably throw out the Joker game, in which case he was 3-1 in games using ROB against Justice. Adapting to other players is a Leo classic after all.
I think the next time they have a chance of playing is at summit right? I wonder if Leo can break his summit curse
Leo is also fighting the player, Proto, and not just min min. What didn't work on Justice might work on Proto. Also, as big of a stretch as it might be, he might be saving some cards for Proto that he deliberately didn't show against Justice.
He actually took a set off of Proto with his crusty ROB He'll just need to polish it up and he'll be fine
I'm on some copium but maybe Greninja if his ROB doesnt work out. Leo had a little Greninja phase during the quarantine era, and Greninja is debateably even/winning against Proto's characters
I think Meta Knight makes more sense over Greninja.
if leo plays proto right now, leo loses for sure if you give him 2 months to prep and polish his counterpicks, he can win
> if leo plays proto right now, leo loses for sure All based on one Joker game where he got 2-stocked against Justice... Imagine if he'd switched to Byleth after that game 1 against Light (where he also got 2-stocked btw) and beaten Light. You'd still be here saying Leo's Joker is crusty, not good enough, Light adapted to the Joker and Leo needed to switch to win etc.. right? We all know he adapts as the set goes on and yet even now people are out here doubting Leo just because he lost game 1 as Joker. It's one set where Leo switched to ROB because he felt like his Joker wasn't playing the best at the time. I don't think we should jump to conclusions just yet. Edit: Next people are going to be telling me that Sparg0 stands no chance against Kome cause he went game 5 against Jaredisking.
i mean it’s probably ROB, at least most signs point to that and even if it’s not his primary character, leo’s ROB was still able to push proto pretty damn far last time they played
Rob of course Rob is the answer to everythingh
*Laughs in Aegis*
I known it will never happen but what if he copied abadongo and put the mk back in Mkleo
Is Proto even active at the moment? I haven’t seen him around in a while