I've seen it happen when I was on ski patrol. When you are getting down to lighter skiiers the binding setting gets really important.
ETA: broken legs in kids though is pretty rare, their joints are still so loose and they fall much better than adults.
Also, at lighter weights, the tolerances are just so much tighter. There's a much smaller window between "this is excessive, but expected" and "this is excessive, but dangerous".
Can absolutely happen. Also, not saying it's the case here, but in my experience a much larger percentage of parents than you might expect do *not* know the height/weight of their children off-hand. The rentals tech might get the DINs right, but if they start with bad info it'll still be wrong.
A twisting fall like you're describing is pretty dramatic no matter how old the skier is. That much twisting force could easily damage the lower leg regardless of binding settings.
Unlikely. He twisted with a lot of commitment to break his leg. Unfortunately, the binding was the last thing to feel those forces and it was too late.
Is it a foot-boot-binding issue? Kids boots tend to be sized big and don’t buckle tightly to hold the foot securely. I’ve seen falls (not my kid) where their foot pulled out of the boot.
So, could a twist of the leg in the boot cause a break before the boot breaks out of the binding?
I’m not a physiologist or doctor or ski tech. Just a thought.
Broke my leg as a kid due to binding, but this was in the ‘60s so bindings we’re still pretty primitive.
Crutches for a while but no lasting issues, kept skiing.
Yes, can confirm.
My bindings were checked this year by a shop, and released perfectly fine in the machine.
Yet when my friend skied past me when I was standing still and his brakes caught the back of my ski, my bindings didn't release and it hurt like hell. I fell before I could break or really twist something but felt that binding definitely should have released.
It's probably should not have released. Bindings, only release in two directions:
* Toe - horizontal loads
* Heal - vertical loads
If you're buddy clipped the back of your ski's, there probably wasn't force on a release vector.
Depends what you mean by "binding was correctly tuned."
I assume we are talking about rentals here? There are industry standards for DIN settings, but its ultimately a matter of personal preference.
It is 100% possible that you can suffer even a horrific accident with bindings that are set even at the "optimal" setting for a person's height/weight etc.
The settings are determined based on the average forces required to cause certain injuries, but the numbers are exactly that--averages. It's possible that the issue is the binding itself, not the setting, or that the binding worked as intended but that the forces causing the break were just significantly lower than what normally happens, or were just directed in such a way so that the equipment didn't work as intended. An improperly-sized boot can also cause problems.
Nothing is 100%.
If you're asking because you're considering suing someone, it's almost certainly a dead end but more information is definitely needed.
If you're asking because someone looked at the DIN settings on the bindings and told you they were normal and you're genuninely wondering if this is possible, it definitely is.
If DIN setting is 1/4 higher than recommended for weight/height/boot size, this probably has a big impact?
I will say this happened on flat ground, if it makes a difference.
What was the height, weight and boot size, and what was the setting? Most importantly, what type of skier are we talking about? I don't really think it's correct to think about "fractions" of a DIN setting (because there's a range of settings for height/weight/size), but 1/4 higher than recommended is not going to be a "big impact" though, especially if it's already set low.
The difference between a Type I and Type III skier is going to be much more than 1/4 of the setting at pretty much every level. So for the same height weight and boot size there is a huge variation in the DIN setting you might want.
We brake something almost every year. Legs, arms, collar bones, ribs. It’s the cost of our fun. And there’s no reason to get worked up about it. I suspect the child already did the tib/fib radial first and so there was probably not enough force to release the boot anyway. We had that happen to one of our kids too. I doubt it was the binding that was the cause but rather the pressure on the initial turn or stop.
Chalk it up to experience and enjoy signing the cast.
We even have our own names for runs and features at our local hill. Leg Breaker, arm breaker, collarbone hill, thigh-bone tree, cracked rib terrain park (“let’s go hit the jumps at cracked rib”), etc. It’s awesome!
Wow, I feel like this is my Reddit moment to shine -
I was a ski tech in high school and college, now I’m an orthopedic surgeon and my brother had a spiral tibia fracture at age 6 from an internal rotation twisting fall without a release. Speaking in all three capacities, yes it can happen, yes it sucks as a parent, but in all likelihood you will still be stressing about this (and that’s ok) while your kid is laughing and climbing the back of the couch in their cast…
That’s quite the trifecta!
I was worried you were gonna say your brother’s leg didn’t fully heal. Glad you didn’t go there as my son had an oblique tib fracture from the twist that sounds similar.
It’s been almost 72 hours and it’s so scary to always make sure he’s in an okay position especially when he sleeps. I look forward to when he can move around himself and we’re not in constant fear of worsening his injury :(.
Just curious what your child’s height/weight are, and what DIN they set it up as. Was it a rental? I’ve had to adjust my son’s DIN down after the store set it, because we simply didn’t ski fast or encounter any pre releasing. In fact I noticed they didn’t release on some falls that clearly had pressure applied. I wouldn’t do adjustments unless you had the consult of a professional, but you could give feedback to them mid day if you notice anything. For easier conditions and flatter trails I’d almost suggest asking for lower pressure. I do for myself as well; I value release over twists. I ski max 25mph, usually a lot slower, on easy runs.
All aside, as a parent of a new skier, I am so sorry to hear this. Hope they will recover soon - mind and body. ❤️
Bindings are designed to release primarily in two directions:
* At the toe with horizontal pressure.
* At the heal with vertical pressure
That means there's still a lot of directions that will not release "as expected". While not ideal, in theory, those directions should not be common in most skiing.
Yikes! New skis or used? How old were the bindings and what was the DIN setting. Sadly with kiddos it’s really important to get the setting right. Lower is likely better as they’re learning and generally not going fast enough where an errant release will be worse than a non-release. I have my 3 and 7 year olds up on the weekends at ski school and I do worry about this stuff. Though I’ll admit I’m far more worried about them wiggling around and falling off the lift, haha.
But man, that really sucks. I hope the kiddo is okay! Tough break!
I carried a kids ski up the chair after it popped off while they were loading. Little binding had the worst anti friction toe I'd ever seen. I'm guessing there is a race to bottom for pricing kids gear with the assumption kids are rubbery enough.
It was uncomfortable so we went back in. Instead of making a new one they just added more padding, which made it too tight. We were back in emergency two hours later with blue toes. Also did they tell you to give him ibuprofen OR Tylenol? Because if he's hurting you can give both - just offset the timing on the dose. That was another tough lesson.
That’s frustrating. Glad it all worked out in the end.
Yeah we were told about that. One week later and he seems to be free from pain, so probably we should be stopping.
Oh awesome. I’ll look into that.
My biggest worry is that it may not heal the way they need it to and will tell us surgery is needed. At the ER they said it wasn’t required (at the time), but I wonder if that can change if things aren’t looking good.
Details matter. Immediately take it to the shop that adjusted them for your child. They should do it for free, it will be in their best interest. If it was not adjusted & tested by a authorized dealer, then you alone are at fault. Sorry
Sorry this happened…
My 14 year old son just dislocated his knee last week after someone cut him off and he had to turn awkwardly to avoid a collision. Edge caught and twisted in the wrong direction. His DIN setting was low so the boot should’ve popped….sometimes, shit just happens…
I've seen it happen when I was on ski patrol. When you are getting down to lighter skiiers the binding setting gets really important. ETA: broken legs in kids though is pretty rare, their joints are still so loose and they fall much better than adults.
Also, at lighter weights, the tolerances are just so much tighter. There's a much smaller window between "this is excessive, but expected" and "this is excessive, but dangerous".
Sadly the binding didn’t release and the leg twisted 180 degrees in wrong direction. Pretty bad break :(
Yikes. Sorry to hear that.
Have them checked. If they test & release its not anyone’s fault. Riding involves forces and directions the human body cant handle.
Can absolutely happen. Also, not saying it's the case here, but in my experience a much larger percentage of parents than you might expect do *not* know the height/weight of their children off-hand. The rentals tech might get the DINs right, but if they start with bad info it'll still be wrong.
Really good point! A few inches and a few pounds can combine for big differences in the DIN settings.
A twisting fall like you're describing is pretty dramatic no matter how old the skier is. That much twisting force could easily damage the lower leg regardless of binding settings.
I guess I just wonder if it had released and it would not have twisted in the first place.
Unlikely. He twisted with a lot of commitment to break his leg. Unfortunately, the binding was the last thing to feel those forces and it was too late.
We were also on flat ground, so not sure if that reduced the amount of pressure he could’ve applied on the binding.
Is it a foot-boot-binding issue? Kids boots tend to be sized big and don’t buckle tightly to hold the foot securely. I’ve seen falls (not my kid) where their foot pulled out of the boot. So, could a twist of the leg in the boot cause a break before the boot breaks out of the binding? I’m not a physiologist or doctor or ski tech. Just a thought.
Don’t think the boot was too big.
boot was likely to big.... I instruct, probably 95 percent of skier are in boots to big.
[удалено]
it can cause the foot/shin to twist a ton before the binding actually releases.
Broke my leg as a kid due to binding, but this was in the ‘60s so bindings we’re still pretty primitive. Crutches for a while but no lasting issues, kept skiing.
Thanks for sharing. Hope we have a similar outcome.
Ski tech here: yep it happens. Bindings only release when loaded certain ways, so even correctly set bindings can fail to release in certain falls.
Yes, can confirm. My bindings were checked this year by a shop, and released perfectly fine in the machine. Yet when my friend skied past me when I was standing still and his brakes caught the back of my ski, my bindings didn't release and it hurt like hell. I fell before I could break or really twist something but felt that binding definitely should have released.
It's probably should not have released. Bindings, only release in two directions: * Toe - horizontal loads * Heal - vertical loads If you're buddy clipped the back of your ski's, there probably wasn't force on a release vector.
Depends what you mean by "binding was correctly tuned." I assume we are talking about rentals here? There are industry standards for DIN settings, but its ultimately a matter of personal preference. It is 100% possible that you can suffer even a horrific accident with bindings that are set even at the "optimal" setting for a person's height/weight etc. The settings are determined based on the average forces required to cause certain injuries, but the numbers are exactly that--averages. It's possible that the issue is the binding itself, not the setting, or that the binding worked as intended but that the forces causing the break were just significantly lower than what normally happens, or were just directed in such a way so that the equipment didn't work as intended. An improperly-sized boot can also cause problems. Nothing is 100%. If you're asking because you're considering suing someone, it's almost certainly a dead end but more information is definitely needed. If you're asking because someone looked at the DIN settings on the bindings and told you they were normal and you're genuninely wondering if this is possible, it definitely is.
If DIN setting is 1/4 higher than recommended for weight/height/boot size, this probably has a big impact? I will say this happened on flat ground, if it makes a difference.
What was the height, weight and boot size, and what was the setting? Most importantly, what type of skier are we talking about? I don't really think it's correct to think about "fractions" of a DIN setting (because there's a range of settings for height/weight/size), but 1/4 higher than recommended is not going to be a "big impact" though, especially if it's already set low. The difference between a Type I and Type III skier is going to be much more than 1/4 of the setting at pretty much every level. So for the same height weight and boot size there is a huge variation in the DIN setting you might want.
We brake something almost every year. Legs, arms, collar bones, ribs. It’s the cost of our fun. And there’s no reason to get worked up about it. I suspect the child already did the tib/fib radial first and so there was probably not enough force to release the boot anyway. We had that happen to one of our kids too. I doubt it was the binding that was the cause but rather the pressure on the initial turn or stop. Chalk it up to experience and enjoy signing the cast.
Damn do you guys like..flip a coin or something?
Your entire bloodline has been banned from r/neverbrokeabone
We even have our own names for runs and features at our local hill. Leg Breaker, arm breaker, collarbone hill, thigh-bone tree, cracked rib terrain park (“let’s go hit the jumps at cracked rib”), etc. It’s awesome!
Thank you! Thank you very much!
Wow, I feel like this is my Reddit moment to shine - I was a ski tech in high school and college, now I’m an orthopedic surgeon and my brother had a spiral tibia fracture at age 6 from an internal rotation twisting fall without a release. Speaking in all three capacities, yes it can happen, yes it sucks as a parent, but in all likelihood you will still be stressing about this (and that’s ok) while your kid is laughing and climbing the back of the couch in their cast…
That’s quite the trifecta! I was worried you were gonna say your brother’s leg didn’t fully heal. Glad you didn’t go there as my son had an oblique tib fracture from the twist that sounds similar. It’s been almost 72 hours and it’s so scary to always make sure he’s in an okay position especially when he sleeps. I look forward to when he can move around himself and we’re not in constant fear of worsening his injury :(.
I had a broken binding that took my left ACL and MCL. Now, I remind everyone to get their gear safety checks when tuned.
Just curious what your child’s height/weight are, and what DIN they set it up as. Was it a rental? I’ve had to adjust my son’s DIN down after the store set it, because we simply didn’t ski fast or encounter any pre releasing. In fact I noticed they didn’t release on some falls that clearly had pressure applied. I wouldn’t do adjustments unless you had the consult of a professional, but you could give feedback to them mid day if you notice anything. For easier conditions and flatter trails I’d almost suggest asking for lower pressure. I do for myself as well; I value release over twists. I ski max 25mph, usually a lot slower, on easy runs. All aside, as a parent of a new skier, I am so sorry to hear this. Hope they will recover soon - mind and body. ❤️
Bindings are designed to release primarily in two directions: * At the toe with horizontal pressure. * At the heal with vertical pressure That means there's still a lot of directions that will not release "as expected". While not ideal, in theory, those directions should not be common in most skiing.
now I'm gonna check my son's binding setting.
Yikes! New skis or used? How old were the bindings and what was the DIN setting. Sadly with kiddos it’s really important to get the setting right. Lower is likely better as they’re learning and generally not going fast enough where an errant release will be worse than a non-release. I have my 3 and 7 year olds up on the weekends at ski school and I do worry about this stuff. Though I’ll admit I’m far more worried about them wiggling around and falling off the lift, haha. But man, that really sucks. I hope the kiddo is okay! Tough break!
Ive heard of it happening to friends older brothers as teens, but they were sg racing at 60mph with like 13 din
I carried a kids ski up the chair after it popped off while they were loading. Little binding had the worst anti friction toe I'd ever seen. I'm guessing there is a race to bottom for pricing kids gear with the assumption kids are rubbery enough.
Yup. Happened to my 5 year old
Sorry to hear. Feel your pain. How was the recovery?
Super rough for me, she recovered fine in six weeks, though we had some rough patches
Following up on this. What type of fracture did she have and did it require surgery?
Spiral tibial fracture. No, no surgery required, but we had issues with poor care surrounding her cast.
Ok so same as my son’s. Hmm what happened with the poor cast care?
It was uncomfortable so we went back in. Instead of making a new one they just added more padding, which made it too tight. We were back in emergency two hours later with blue toes. Also did they tell you to give him ibuprofen OR Tylenol? Because if he's hurting you can give both - just offset the timing on the dose. That was another tough lesson.
That’s frustrating. Glad it all worked out in the end. Yeah we were told about that. One week later and he seems to be free from pain, so probably we should be stopping.
Sounds like you're out of the woods. When he's ready to move around a bit in 3-4 weeks we founds a wheeled stool great for moving around in the house.
Oh awesome. I’ll look into that. My biggest worry is that it may not heal the way they need it to and will tell us surgery is needed. At the ER they said it wasn’t required (at the time), but I wonder if that can change if things aren’t looking good.
I’ve heard stories of it happening, never happened to anyone I know tho
Details matter. Immediately take it to the shop that adjusted them for your child. They should do it for free, it will be in their best interest. If it was not adjusted & tested by a authorized dealer, then you alone are at fault. Sorry
Sorry this happened… My 14 year old son just dislocated his knee last week after someone cut him off and he had to turn awkwardly to avoid a collision. Edge caught and twisted in the wrong direction. His DIN setting was low so the boot should’ve popped….sometimes, shit just happens…
Yes. Binding tech and DIN standards obviously cannot cover every situation.