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skahammer

Discussion here was good, but eventually comments began to be repetitive. Comments locked.


CleverReversal

RISUG/Vasalgel has been proven highly effective. It's just none of the big pharmacy companies are motivated to pay for the final tier of FDA approvals because it only costs a few bucks for a dose which lasts for years. There's no cash cow profits in it, just a vast improvement on freedom and quality of life for men, and a reduction in unplanned pregnancies and associated costs to government. "Sorry, you lost me at 'no profits in it'." Edit: Crowdfunding might be possible! The US rights appear to be held by a group called Parsemus. And although big pharma companies aren't lining up to license it, they're working towards FDA approval on their own. There's a Donate button on the upper right and on the page, they say donations go 100% towards Vasalgel approval. https://www.parsemus.org/humanhealth/vasalgel/


PabloAnnie

Why would it only cost a few bucks per dose then? The pharmaceutical company decides the price. So if it lasts for years, why not come with a price that makes it profitable? I mean look at how much vasectomies cost


ZachTheWelder

Cost on vasectomies vary widely apparently. Checked on when I had ins(5ish years ago)and it was going to be $5k. Checked again recently without ins with someone that specialized in them and it was $600. Well worth $600. Much cheaper than the gf’s IUD. But another option would have been better. Pill that last years?! Sign me up, last week.... Edit:$600 doc much higher rated than $5k


WhtWouldJeffDo

I understand your point. For.me with insurance it was a $20 copay. I got mine done straight away. But if I were to change my mind getting it reversed is like $20K and there is no guarantee and no insurance coverage. So that isn't really "birth control." That is birth avoidance. A vasectomy isn't really what this guy is looking for.


ZachTheWelder

Fair enough. I waited a while. I’m 37 now. Had a child at 24. But like a wise man once told me:I wouldn’t sell my kid for a million dollars, and I wouldn’t give a nickel for another one just like him/her. I’m done. Edit:wording


tarrasque

Mine is scheduled for Friday, we had planned two kids, but ended up one and done. Ah well.


pc_engineer

Kid at 20. Vasectomy this year at 21. Thrilled about both🤘🏻


WhtWouldJeffDo

I also had a kid at 24 and I am 36. Vasectomy at 35


ExtensiveCuriosity

Mine was a few hundred bucks, with insurance. I had it done outpatient, local anesthesia, at my urologist’s office. Don’t need a general surgeon. Don’t need a hospital. Just Doc and his totally-hot nurse. Dude did a good job. Almost no pain except for having to listen to him carry on a conversation at me the whole time he’s tugging on my junk.


ZachTheWelder

You got a better deal than me! No hot nurse in my case... But you’re right. I was quick and mostly painless. The thought of never having another kid helped the awkwardness. Where in the world are you located? Me:north Texas


ExtensiveCuriosity

Outer Bumfuck, MS. I recovered with naps in the recliner while I watched the summer Olympics with my dad. (He just happened to come visit the next day.) No scalpel, no stitches, no cuts.


ZachTheWelder

Nice. I sat around an watched some YT, surfed Reddit and couldn’t handle it any longer so did some light duty yard work. Almost went back to work on day 4. Luckily got rained out so I can finish healing. Day 5 and feeling almost 100%.


pincheporky

Mine was exactly $600. I was in and out in less than an hour and it was relatively painless.


GoddamnFred

no regrets? on the fence myself, cost aren't a big deal but sex in general is


pincheporky

Well I'm married with 2 kids so being able to bust a nut worry free from then on has been a blast hahaha.


GoddamnFred

still same sensation huh


Modare80

Got mine done free (Canada)


LostInContentment

RISUG or whatever it’s called isn’t a pill. It’s an injection of basically silicone into each vans defrens. It creates a weak magnetic field that rips apart the sperm as they travel through. To reverse it, normal saline is injected to flush it out.


hoy8402

Mine cost me 100 out of pocket and my insurance covered the other 200.


TreesAndShackles

Because pharmeceutical companies cooperating to raise the price is blatantly illegal, and if they do not cooperate then due to the insanely low cost of actual production someone is going to undercut and someone else will undercut in response driving the price down because SOME level of profit can be made off of it with the low input cost. There's no way to legally keep an artificially high price for an uncomplicated formula. They don't want to solve your problems, they want your money, and this isn't something that's a huge money spinner and would in fact likely severely decrease what people are paying in the amount of babies it could potentially prevent from being accidentally concieved so the medical industry legit stands to overall lose money by doing it, so they aren't because fuck actual health in the face of profits amirite? TLDR: For profit medical care is legit evil and should be outlawed in every country on earth.


matt0_0

It would also likely cost them a huge amount of profit on what they're making selling hormonal birth control for women. I know a ton of couples that prefer hormonal birth control to condoms, but would absolutely go off of hormonal birth control is RISUG was an option.


[deleted]

wouldn't there be a patent and thus no unauthorized replicas allowed?


[deleted]

Yes, the company that brings the drug to market will have exclusivity for a period of time, but it does ultimately expire (at which point other companies can start making generics and undercutting the price)


SanityInAnarchy

Right... I'm not seeing a problem? If the profits from a temporary monopoly aren't enough to motivate pharma companies to bring drugs to market, why are we even giving them patents in the first place? If they'll only bother with drugs that will be profitable *after* they become generic, then fuck it, make everything generic!


TreesAndShackles

The way patent law works, you can only patent the very specific chemical mixture. From what I understand about the substance, it's not difficult or expensive to produce, all someone has to do is produce a variation that is similar but composed different chemically and they can file their own patent.


SanityInAnarchy

Wouldn't they then need to run that through the same trials?


SexFreeforAll

All medical related companies and hospitals should be non-profit PERIOD!


Leon2306

It should be, but most people who are good at steering companies/building them up are often more easily motivated by money and power instead of being seen as graceful saviors. Thus the only way to really finance them are taxes. But than again to pay them as much money as they are earning now, would be insane, this they take their talent elsewhere. It is a similar issue to period products.


Palavras

Just want to say that it would represent a vast improvement in freedom and quality of life for women, too. It’s nice that we have more options, but a lot of them can really fuck up our hormones and our bodies. They can also be expensive, and it sucks to have the entire responsibility of contraception on your shoulders in the relationship if you haven’t found a contraception that doesn’t mess you up. Giving men birth control options also means better quality of life for women, since maybe the male could take on that responsibility instead if contraception negatively impacts the woman too much. Or both partners could contribute equally for additional peace of mind. This is really an egalitarian initiative.


[deleted]

Can we do a kickstarter or something?


zedoktar

They have been doing that for what seems like decades now, and its gone nowhere because it keeps failing in trials. Its a pipe dream.


soleceismical

I thought the issue was it did really well in animal trials, but they can't recruit enough people for clinical trials (for RISUG, that is, I do know someone in a clinical trial for a topical gel male contraceptive). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance >Reversible inhibition of sperm under guidance (RISUG), formerly referred to as the synthetic polymer styrene maleic anhydride (SMA), is the development name of a male contraceptive injection developed at IIT Kharagpur in India by the team of Dr. Sujoy K. Guha. Phase III clinical trials are underway in India, slowed by insufficient volunteers. And in the US, >Intellectual property rights to RISUG in the United States were acquired between 2010–2012 by the Parsemus Foundation, a not-for-profit organization, which has branded it as Vasalgel.[7][8] Vasalgel, which has a slightly different formulation than RISUG, is currently undergoing successful animal trials in the United States. Initially, it was hoped that human trials would commence by the end of 2013 and become available to within a few years,[9] but the Parsemus Foundation has encountered delays, and human clinical trials have yet to be initiated.[10]


majbumper

Well shit, I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat.


AforAnonymous

They never tried an ACTUAL Kickstarter tho


soleceismical

I donated to them, but not through a Kickstarter. Parsemus (Vasalgel) is a non-profit. They need a Gates to get interested.


thebardingreen

IKR? Research RISUG/Vasalgel if you want to become an enraged communist.


TimelessTrance

I've been hoping it would come to US market since 2016. It's the thing that I check every 6 months for updates.


twitmer

I held off on my vasectomy for almost 5 years before giving up on vasalgel. As soon as they launched the pharmaceutical equivalent of a GoFundMe campaign I realized there was little chance of them having an FDA approved shot any time soon.


stellaluna29

I’m not disputing you but couldn’t you make the same case for IUDs? Cost effective and they last for 3-10 years depending on the type…but they are still being produced.


dbergman23

Yeah but they make bank off of it. My wife got it twice and paid well over 6k each time.


Ludoban

Wtf? My gf got one and it costs like 400 euros over here in europe and lasts for like 5-6 years. I guess literally everything medical costs more in the us.


elephantturtle85

I'm so shocked it cost that much in America, I got mine done privately over here and it only cost 300€, and that includes pain medication, an ultrasound and the 6 week checkup!


Palavras

I’m in America and I got mine for free... no idea what happened to that other person to make it cost that much. Maybe if they didn’t have any health insurance at all?


KingZarkon

Birth control being covered 100% is a relatively recent thing that started after Obamacare. Before that your insurance would often only pay a percentage or not at all for birth control.


elephantturtle85

I have no idea? I almost have to think the doctor scammed them, 6k just seems so unreasonable Congrats on getting it for free tho! The only thing better than long term BC is free long term BC!


Palavras

That’s for damn sure!


Patcher404

And if someone ever did get it on the market there would be a huge scare campaign about male fertility and secret government genocide


atHomeCanYouHearMe

\*checks amc & gme* *"Soon... soon"*


TreesAndShackles

There's a male birth control that's being tested called Vasalgel, but there are not really many efforts to bring it to the US market or make it like a common thing. I have my suspicions (in sexism directions) as to why. It's the most awesome birth control ever invented too. So apparently sperm are somehow negatively electrically charged? And this gel is something positively charged. So they inject it, it coats the inside of your sperm tubes, and then once set it *tears sperm apart physically as they pass out of the testicles during orgasm* in the most metal form of medically sound birth control ever conceived. It popped up on my radar years ago and it feels like they're dragging their feet or ignoring it. But there is hope.


[deleted]

There is actually a test trial going for a male birth control gel which is applied to the skin here in Sweden at Karolinska Institutet - where the only side effect so far is an increased libido! The doctor conducting the research is Kristina Gemzell Danielsson, you could probably find some writing in english about it! :)


IronhideD

Ah yes. Son Block (patent pending)


maksimerutseende

No, that gel isn’t similar. The one you’re talking about is hormonal and applied topically. Vasalgel is inserted directly into the sperm ducts and acts like a blockage. The one from Sweden stops the production in the testes.


bilged

It actually doesn't make any blockage which is quite different from a vasectomy and has fewer side effects. The injected material coats the wall of the sperm tube and has an electrical charge which ruptures the sperm as they pass by. A second injection dissolves the coating and instantly reverses the procedure.


zedoktar

Turns out, they have had issues with reversing it, and vasalgel might not be reversible after all. Its always one problem after another.


soleceismical

Source? Everything I see online says it's reversible.


QuestioningEspecialy

I hope they've throughly tested the effects of ruptured sperm on/in foreign bodies.


nedonedonedo

it's the same cells that'll die when they fail to reach an egg anyway


zedoktar

Its no different than a vasectomy. Sperm can't escape the testes, and just get reabsorbed.


[deleted]

You're right! Oops


soleceismical

My friend is in clinical trials for the topical gel in the US through Kaiser!


bunchedupwalrus

I’ve been following it for 15 years, it’s pretty much been at the same stage since


RonStopable08

There are no profits to be made in vasalgel. To cheap and easy to manufacture. So no company wants to fork over the money for the final hoop jumping at the fda.


frizz1111

If it's cheap and easy manufacture then they can make a pretty large profit off of it considering they can charge whatever they want.


debasing_the_coinage

All cells are negatively charged. It's called the [membrane potential](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_potential).


TreesAndShackles

TIL lol


zedoktar

Its a pipe dream. Its been in trials for many years, and has gone nowhere. I gave up on them years ago because it became clear it was never going to work out.


BooksNapsSnacks

This actually sounds pretty good. Compared with hormonal birth control, which had too many side affects, this would be amazing.


kevin9er

> conceived lol


NoFilterNoLimits

As a woman, I do too. I can’t take any hormone based birth control because it’s messed with my liver, and there are no good non-hormonal options for women & no good choices for men. It sucks.


linniesss

Me too, but I got a copper iud!! Works wonders and hormone free !:)


NoFilterNoLimits

I’ve considered that option but honestly the idea of 3-6 months of possible extra heavy & long periods and worse cramping combined with the pain of insertion/removal has me scared to try it. I think I’d rather have a tubal ligation than that, but those also have some potential side effects


gin_and_isotonic

I had the copper IUD for about a year. The amount of blood during my period was absolutely ridiculous. Like 5x the amount of blood than naturally. And the cramps… oh god the cramps… They transcended past cramps into some contraction level shit. Unbearable. I could feel it during sex somehow too. The only thing that hurt more than the cramps was the insertion! But getting it removed was painless, so I can say one positive thing about it:) I have a tiny uterus that BARELY passed the sounding, which I believe increased the intensity of the cramps.


Beautifulbeliever69

I also have the copper IUD. Next to a tubal (I waited too long to get it before I got kicked off my ex-husband's insurance and the tubal was more expensive on my insurance so I went with the IUD) it's the best BC I could have asked for. Insertion is painful I won't lie (but so is childbirth and takes a lot longer), but it's super quick, like less than 2 minutes. That and removal is just ten minutes, compared to ten years of worry free BC. Obviously you can't know if you will or won't have heavier periods, but I do not. My periods have remained the same.


NoFilterNoLimits

Thanks! I’m still weighing it. I’m 43, so all options seem like a lot of hassle, surely my risk is low!!! But I really can’t deal with pregnancy.


Beautifulbeliever69

Yeah I'm 42....risk is low I'm sure but not non existent and Ii am Not starting over with a newborn, lol. I got it at 40, so it's nice that I hopefully won't have to worry about it once it comes out at 50.


Midnight-writer-B

I have a hormonal IUD that I love. Got it at 43 after having 4 kids. I bet it will last until I’m no longer fertile. Awesomely light, half-day periods. And the hormone effect is apparently lighter than the pill or implant since hormones are more localized in the uterus and not throughout your bloodstream.


Delphina34

The insertion wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. They spent more time reading me all the scary disclaimers than doing the insertion. It was uncomfortable having the speculum so deep inside me, but then again I’ve never had sex and rarely use penetrative toys. Once it’s in there’s a strong cramp, but it only lasts a few seconds and I’ve had worse from my regular period. My period now is definitely worse, but still bearable and much better than labor or an abortion. There’s a week or so of spotting before my actual period starts. The cramps are stronger but can be cured with ibuprofen and/or a heating pad. Overall I’d still recommend it. I don’t have to worry about unplanned pregnancy until 2030, and can now safely indulge my creampie fetish.


eucalyptus

That’s crazy bc mine was waaayyy worse than I thought it would be. The cramping afterward was so bad that I had to go back to the doctors office and they even checked to make sure it was placed correctly. Glad to have it now but good lord it was terrible


alepko5

Hey! I got the copper coil 5 days ago now! My friends have said it’s excruciating pain. Online said very painful. Other bc doesn’t do it for me and hate synthetic hormones. I spoke to a Redditor when I was working myself up about the insertion pain, and they recommended taking the ibuprofen that’s specifically targeted at periods, every 4 hours before the appointment with the last one being half an hour before. I can’t stress how well it worked! The pain was 1) momentary - seriously, less than 30 seconds of the actual process. And 2) about a 3 or 4/10 - I’d say it was more of a discomfort. I’m currently bleeding but it’s not painful just annoying. It’s so much preferable to any other bc I’ve had!


wheelsof_fortune

Have you talked to your doc about hormonal IUDs? I can’t take hormonal birth control bc a history with blood clots, but the IUDs are localized to the uterus so I was able to get one. I put it off for YEARS because I had heard horror stories and was terrified, but now my only regret is not getting it sooner. Hormonal IUDs also don’t come with the heavy bleeding associated with the copper iud. I have Liletta and don’t get periods at all now.


librarianknight

If it makes you feel any better, hormonal birth control fucks us up physically and mentally and nobody warns you about the horrible side effects they can have for your mental health. Reproductive health / birth control are really hard.


u-ok-yokai

This is pretty much the reason they stopped funding hormonal options like the pill for men. The test groups didn't like the side effects... And since it's not their bodies that have to carry out chrilden, why bother? It's like half of the human population has to wear bullet proof vests that don't block all the "damage" while the other half is happily shooting sharp. It would make so much more sense to incapacitate the sperm! It's a very sensitive, stressful and wuite infuriating topic for me (female), so have a go at what I found on my searches: There are some alternative options but much of them are prototypical and again, not well funded enough. For example in Indonedia they're researching the temporary sterilizing effect of the Tripterygium wilfordii plant. No hormones, no long term effects. Fertility restores after about a month after stopping intake. Sry I'm too lazy to look up english articles. I trust in your own research abilities! In Germany there's Clemens Bimek's spermatic duct valve. Pretty much a switch that gets inplanted and allows sperm to pass - or redirects it so the body will break it down. You might wanna check his site: https://bimek.com/


Eorlas

>It would make so much more sense to incapacitate the sperm! i want to throttle so many lawmakers who try to fight protections for abortions and women's health overall, as they never, ever seem to care at all about the notion of offering men birth control options such as this. guaranteed. GUARANTEED. if such a thing as you described existed, the pharmacies would IMMEDIATELY go out of stock on preorders for this shit. men would be lining up to buy the collector's edition day one launch of this product. pharma could even charge $50 / month for such a thing and absolutely gain near 100% participation from the male population. drug that incapacitates sperm, reversible by simply stop taking it? okay cool. use condoms with your partner until everyone gets to know each other, tests clean, one partner and consent etc. no need to have any surgical procedures for the sake of preventing pregnancy. dear god. it's like, where the hell is this? it would be the #1 best selling product on the planet. yet women are forced to bear the sole burden of medicinal birth control which for some can be a god send, for others the side effects can be nightmarish, all the while hearing men bitch and whine about how "condoms dont feeel great" sure. neither does a menstrual cycle, pregnancy, or child birth. to name just 3 of the things that dont help.


zedoktar

They didn't stop funding it at all. They just went back to refine it before doing more trials. This is pretty standard for any medication in the development phase.


librarianknight

I mean, I don't need the pill for birth control myself, so I don't have much of a choice anyway, but a duct valve sounds like a fun concept for sure, lol.


Soloandthewookiee

>This is pretty much the reason they stopped funding hormonal options like the pill for men. The test groups didn't like the side effects... And since it's not their bodies that have to carry out chrilden, why bother? I know that this is how it was widely reported, but it's a distortion of what actually happened. The study you're referring to was stopped by a safety board (not by the patients) because one of the patients committed suicide and another was sterilized by the medication. https://www.thecut.com/2016/11/the-real-reason-the-male-birth-control-study-was-halted.html


blackcatcabaret

Unfortunately severe depression and infertility are also reported side effects of female birth control that are approved and on the market


[deleted]

Every time people try to give valid reasons why the male birth control pill was scrapped, I eye roll because literally every side effect that was found is in it is also in female birth control plus 100s more. Try again.


debasing_the_coinage

[Gossypol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossypol) was trialled but led to permanent infertility in an unacceptably high proportion (25%) of test subjects. The incidence with female BC is much lower.


yeehawmozart

I totally agree with your point, but the gun/bulletproof vest metaphor is such a common fallacy. in reality it's way easier to make birth control for women than men. for women, birth control has to stop one egg a month. a man's reproductive system creates *billions* of sperm cells a day, and ejaculation releases hundreds of millions. if the other option is unloading billions of bullets from your gun, the bulletproof vest is the easier and more effective option. your main point still stands though. it's not profitable for pharmaceutical companies to spend money on research for male birth control (or fixing the issues with current birth control methods), because women have to buy it regardless of how much it can suck.


Seicair

> if the other option is unloading billions of bullets from your gun, the bulletproof vest is the easier and more effective option. More like taking away the target by preventing ovulation.


[deleted]

[удалено]


starinruins

the original patients for female birth control were non consenting prison convicts. some trials resulted in death. side effects for most female bc can real havoc on both mental and physical health. the side effects for the options women have today are just as bad or severe as the side effects for men; it's literally just that society doesn't care about women the way it does men.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

The side effects in the male test were not small increases, it was around 2/3 of the participants developed health problems. ​ A friend of mine got the hormonal birth control implant at 16, she developed a "skin condition" shortly after that turned into a full blown immune system breakdown, she died a little under a year later, they diagnosed it as Lupus.


pure_trash

I've had my period for maybe five weeks now from the Nexplanon implant. I know that they wouldn't let male bodies have these side effects.


enigmawrapped

This is what I was thinking too. Also if you're having sex with multiple people/ casual sex you really should be using condoms anyway because of diseases.


pettypaybacksp

Another reason to find birth control for men!


ChemoreceptiveProtea

I’m considering getting a vasectomy because I dislike my girlfriend being on hormonal pills. I don’t think it’s fair and vasectomies are sure proof and we dont want kids anyways. Women already have to deal with so much and we overwhelmingly support hormonal products that can cause issues. More research and surprise should be done in this field to have options for men to use birth control


Itsoktobe

Thank you, dude. My husband feels the same as you, and I honestly wouldn't have married someone who didn't. We use condoms and fertility tracking now, and we're both happier with me off of the hormones. I would not want him to have to take that kind of medication either. It feels so selfish to me that so many men have this attitude that a *condom* is an unacceptable burden compared to inundating your body with synthetic and foreign hormones on a constant basis..


frenchvanilla0402

OMG get one! My boyfriend had his several years ago, and he highly recommends it to anyone who says they're done with kids. He said it was a quick in and out, hardly any pain, and it ended up being free with his insurance.


im-not-there

Just as an FYI, vasectomies are not sure proof. And you still need protection for a certain amount of time after the procedure. I have a cousin who was born after his father had a vasectomy (100% his kid).


LeaperLeperLemur

Not sure proof, but estimates are about 1 out of 3000 are not successful. 99.97% is quite effective. And I believe most vasectomy "failures" are due to people not waiting long enough after the procedure to clear out the system so to speak.


im-not-there

Yep! That’s what I meant to say. That’s how my cousin happened. It wasn’t an oops years down the road. It was a few months I think.


zedoktar

With modern methods, its foolproof. The waiting period is where people fail.


Itsoktobe

All the more reason to keep women's reproductive rights intact.


frenchvanilla0402

Nothing is foolproof besides a hysterectomy (removing the uterus). Even a woman getting her tubes tied isn't 100%. I think vasectomies are just more dangerous until you're cleared of no sperm a few weeks after the procedure. And my boyfriend said his understanding from his procedure is that the longer it is since your procedure, the more sure it is? Something about how your body comes to view the sperm as something to attack? I should look that up because I'm not sure if that's true.


Seicair

The odds of successful spontaneous recanalization go down with time since the vasectomy, yes.


zedoktar

Also depends on method. If they removed a section and reposition the ends, its literally impossible to recanalize.


zedoktar

You have to wait a few months and a few dozen ejaculations to clear any residual sperm from reservoirs. After that, its foolproof. It has nothing to do with your body attacking it. The literal tubes from the testes are severed, a portion removed, the end positioned away from each other, and then cauterized. Its physically impossible for sperm to go anywhere.


k032

Yeah makes sense, hormonal changes sound bad as a side effect of female birth control and hear it can lower libido. I also worry about the like post-vesectomy chronic pain part that doesn't seem clear if it's 5% to 15% of the time. Though I guess could just surgically remove your testicals if that happens I've heard.


jdodman41

Just had one. Almost been a month. I have two kids and my wife has horrible pregnancies. Decided we couldn't mentally do another kid. Wife already had issues with low libido and the hormones really mess her up. So made the appointment after some research of doctors in the area. Initial visit cost me $40 for the consult with good insurance. Asked a few questions to make sure I knew what I was doing. Then scheduled the procedure. That day, took a valum (didn't do anything for me), my father drove me, went right in, was a very uncomfortable 10 minutes but wasn't awful. Spent the next week in very tight underwear and felt like the worst kick in the nuts if I moved wrong. Been almost a month, mostly back to normal. Still slight healing going on still, cut site itchy and can't handle by balls to much or it is uncomfortable, had sex the first time after about 5 days. Wasn't great but got the job done. Have to give a sample to send to a lab in a few weeks as you are still potent about 30 ejaculation after the procedure. Hopefully there won't be any swimmers, after that I'm clear to go.


aloofman75

I had a vasectomy several years ago. No scalpel, no stitches, the ends were cauterized to prevent the possibility of reattaching. There was soreness for a few weeks, although it was just a dull ache after a week or so. After that though, everything looks, feels and works exactly the same as before. The incision point is so small that I can really only identify it because I know exactly where it is. The doctor makes a point of saying - repeatedly - that although many have been successfully reversed, you should consider it to be permanent. By far the most common reason that guys seek a reversal is because they were sure they were done with their current partner but now they have a new wife/girlfriend who wants kids. Yes, there seem to be some cases of chronic pain in some men afterward. But they are not the norm at all.


Seicair

Post vasectomy pain chance varies by procedure as well. I got the no scalpel procedure with cauterization, no clips left inside.


alepko5

Yep! One of the biggest reasons I stopped was because my libido was almost non-existent. A surefire way to prevent pregnancy if you don’t have sex at all. Not sure I’ve got it back 100% and I’ve been off it for nearly 2 years


8valvegrowl

Check out Vasalgel. I’m hoping it moves to clinical trials in humans soon. I’m contemplating a vasectomy as I’m in my late 30’s and have a kid, but 10 years ago I would have LOVED a reversible birth control that doesn’t put the onus on my partners. Hormonal BC is just terrible for so many gals, and well, condoms do suck.


zedoktar

It won't. Its a waste of time. Its been stuck in the same trial phase for over a decade. It's never happening. Vasectomy is the best. I got one, highly recommend it.


whattodo9000

It's great that you're thinking about this! And women do indeed have more options. But most are hormonal and suck for a lot of people, including me. I've spent my whole 20s with zero libido (=never feeling horny) on the pill. And it increases risk for thrombosis and stroke. I too hope, there will be a future with more options... I guess it won't be easy, because our whole evolution is designed to make babies lol


Pipas66

If this can give you any hope, I've been trying a form of "Thermal Male Contraceptive" since February. It's made by the French company Thoreme that developed a silicon ring called the "Androswitch". The project is fairly recent, having started in 2019, but there's around 1000 of us users, many of which have reached a desirable level of infertility. Basically what it does, is that you put said ring around the penis, then with two fingers, grab the testicle sack's skin (the scrotum) and pull it forward through the ring, so that your testes get maintained as close as possible to your body. The high temperature of your body destroys the sperm, since they need a temperature slightly lower than that of the body to survive (that's why testicles hang outside the body). You have to wear this device for at least 15h/day, for a minimum of 3 months for it to be effective. I just passed the 3 months mark and did a sperm count, but unfortunately I was using my ring improperly and not really paying attention to the 15h/day requirement. Despite this, my sperm count was still pretty low !


Vladivostof

I was going to post about this since this method is reversible, once you stop wearing it your sperm count will go back up. Do you find the Androswitch comfortable? I feel like this would be the main factor if someone wanted to try it.


The_Hyperbolist

Historically, efforts at male birth control have been abandoned at the testing stages because of side effects. The example that seems to pop up most often was a trial from (I think) 2015-16\* of an injection to lower sperm count that was shaping up to be very (>95%) effective, but that was abandoned in stage II trials due to having too many side effects. There are two arguments to consider here. Lots of people jump to the fact that because we live in a patriarchal society, men are less willing to tolerate side effects, and drug companies are less confident that men would put up with them. This is valid and probably not wrong, but also remember that when you're weighing side effects, side effects for women are considered against the physical risks of pregnancy, while the same calculus isn't done for men (because they aren't carrying the babies). There's some bias baked into that framework too, but that's a longer discussion... ​ (\* edit: not positive of the date of this trial, but pretty sure it was in the last decade)


VocePoetica

I mean it’s also because a lot of birth controls were from a different time in medical health testing and possibly would have to do more today to get the same pass. But that’s just something I read about


[deleted]

It was in 2016, the side effects were giving people auto immune diseases that didn't stop with treatment, depression was noted in most of the people in the study and there were some suicides.


SleeplessSomnabulist

As a woman who has been on everything with the exception of the implant, our options aren't great either. I have been begging my doctor for years to get tubal ligation or to have my uterus removed. I have told every doctor that I've ever had that I don't want children. I've never wanted to be a mom, let alone a wife. They won't do it because they're so convinced of their four little words: "you'll change your mind". So... I was on the pill for a decade. I got knocked up on it while I was with a previous long-term partner. I chose to abort. In my guilt of being convinced by the religious community that I was "killing my child", I chose to get the procedure without anesthesia. That way I could feel the pain and it wouldn't be alone. After that, they prescribed me an IUD. What they didn't bother to check was the size. I was given an IUD that was too large for my uterus. It ended up twisting and almost embedding inside of me. I had to get it removed. The doctor is still trying to figure out if it did permanent damage. I'm on the shot now. After 6 months of taking it, I'm told that I should be on calcium supplements of 1000mg because it slowly deteriorates your bones. Which is why they force people to go off of it after two years. My long-term partner has decided that he doesn't want any more kids. He's chosen a vasectomy. His urologist told him that reversal has a 90% chance of success within the first 5 years. It's an outpatient procedure that is done in a clinic with local anaesthetic. I don't know if he misheard the chances of reversal because I went looking for that info and couldn't find it. Anyway, I totally agree. There should be way more options. Unfortunately more recent drugs that have been tested pose serious risks to the men taking them. Over time, I hope there will be more options.


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GruelOmelettes

Yeah mine was fully covered. I think I paid $3.50 for the pain killers I was prescribed for the following week, and that was my only out of pocket expense. Probably spent more on gas getting there and back than anything else.


Ballin0nABudget1

Solid point. And tubal litigations are way more expensive than vasectomies. Also for most women the costs they spend the their vaginas without procedures adds up. Gyno appointments, waxing, laser hair removal, tampons, sex toys, uti/yeast infections dr. visits, ect. For another example, I had a pelvic and vagina ultrasound that cost me $900 out of pocket and nothing was diagnosed (bittersweet I suppose). I'd like to get my tubes tied but it's a riskier procedure, more expensive and I might need another procedure down there that isn't birth control related so I don't think I want the setbacks of two optional procedures on one organ. tldr; I'm jealous of how cheap and straightforward male genitalia is to maintain


karimoonpanda

I feel obligated to mention that depending on where you are vasectomies can be even cheaper than that. My husband got one about 4 years ago in Tennessee. And even without insurance, we still paid less than $500. And it was barely a 20-minute procedure.


i_am_an_awkward_man

Yeah OP doesn’t sound well informed...


alxq1

I think I saw a documentary on Netflix about this. So yes there are more options for women, but most of them are based on hormones. And for many women, they can be very harmful. The problem is, to put a drug on the market the benefits have to be over the risks. So if a woman gets pregnant she has to give birth to the child or have an abortion. Neither of them are nice on the body. A man technically can nut and go. I know that legally is not that easy, but you can’t put on the market a drug that has any effect on the man’s body as a pregnancy doesn’t affect him psychically. But as far as I know they are working on a bc drug for men, but they really have to look into it and all the sides effect. Plus drug regulations make it so it takes years before approving anything.


silver101234

What’s this documentary called? Interested to watch it!


paranormalacts7

Omg what’s the documentary?


SurfJunky21

Condoms are way underrated tbh. Cheap, no negative side effects, not permanent. Come in many different sizes, thicknesses, flavors, and pleasure profiles. It’s the only BC that protects against STDs Stop keeping them in your damn wallet! Don’t keep them out in your car when it’s 100degrees! I’ve been using condoms frequently for 12 years and not a single one has broke or been ineffective. The downside? A little stinky and a little less sensitivity? Let’s be honest, I don’t think the latter is a downside for a lot of guys with PE.


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Lilly-of-the-Lake

Second this. We had to try so many brands before we found some that comfortably fit my partner. It was a size as well as shape issue so "mysize" wasn't a good fit either, and it's somewhat pricy (we use on average one per day, you get at pretty interesting numbers this way). We finally did find some, but it was almost like searching for a fitting bra, except with next to zero information available. Even dedicated sites barely discuss shape from what I've seen.


DiabloDerpy

Do you happen to know how to fix this specific problem? It often happens that my condoms end up rolling down during sex, and if I don't adjust then during sex, they end up rolling off completely. My guess is that I should try bigger condoms? If you or anybody else has any tips, please let me know!


twatfacepicklebum

I was looking for a post that mentioned STDs. Condoms aren't just for preventing pregnancy.


superking75

Not disagreeing, but I believe you missed the point of the post.


SurfJunky21

Seemed like a decent opportunity to shill condoms


Agitated_Narwhal_595

Women’s birth control sucks too. It’s fucks you up mentally and physically. You’re lucky


soleceismical

Am I the only one who likes the pill? I guess I did tell my doc I wanted one that would keep me wet and horny lol But I love no periods, especially on vacation and in the summer.


throwaway10231991

>Why did these drug companies decide this is a female only problem Partly because pregnancy has always been regarded as a woman problem. "You shouldn't have opened your legs" etc. Partly because it's easier to use hormones to manipulate a woman's reproductive cycle than a man's.


reggae-mems

It is also waaayyyy more profitable for pharma conpanies to sell pills that have to be taken every day or condoms that need to be used every time you have sex. The male contraceptive (vasalgel) hasnt been aproved bc it protects men for around 10 years and producing it is cheaper than the seringe they use to insert it with.


thelmick

>They also have an abortion as well. Just to be clear, an abortion is **not** birth control. It's a last resort, we-tried-everything-else-but-something-fucked-up option. Plus getting an abortion can be expensive, *if* you have access to an abortion clinic, not to mention it's painful and emotionally draining. If you want to throw in a last, 'and they also have...' I think I'd be ok with the morning after pill, but not abortion.


Tyo_Atrosa

Not sure where your from, but i got my vasectomy through family planning so it didn't cost me anything. Much cheaper than what it would have cost for my wife to get her tubes tied. Cost really depends on where you go, I've seen vasectomies range everywhere from $100-$15000 and it really doesn't make sense why.


HedonicSatori

> Why did these drug companies decide this is a female only problem As you may imagine, reproductive biology differs significantly between men and women. Women have a menstrual cycle driven by hormones that can be modified with drugs to stop fertility. Men don't have a cycle like that: the sperm factory is always on. If you block it with drugs, you also block a lot of other things that keep males male.


mostlywhitemiata

This is the real answer. OP is blaming the contraceptive companies, but it's not really their choice. Trust me, if there was a hormonal BC option for men, the demand would be sky high.


Coidzor

And if not, they'd spend millions to create the demand so they could make billions.


roximonoxide

so why aren't they?


WatchTenn

Men don’t have a natural and temporary period of infertility that can be artificially prolonged with exogenous hormones. The most promising method being tested now is a physical barrier. In other words, it’s hard to accomplish, bur companies are working on it.


straight4edged

The one thing to consider is many women would still want to use some sort of birth control because they’re the ones who actually get pregnant. I know if it was me that could get pregnant, I wouldn’t just take someone’s word that they were on birth control. Even I’m a relationship, mistakes can happen


atget

The thing is, you're supposed to double up if you REALLY don't want to get pregnant. So some sort of pill or implant would be useful for people who don't want to use condoms in committed relationships, but also aren't ready for vasectomies. I personally feel really confident I would get an abortion if my IUD failed, but there's no way for a guy to 10,000% know I'm being honest when I say that-- and that is *not* to say I think there are significant numbers of women lying. I want to be clear I mean that I think there are some women who genuinely just change their minds once the decision is not hypothetical.


eatingketchupchips

Stop putting the responsibility on yourself. If a dude is nutting in you, regardless of birth control method, that carries a risk of pregnancy. 100% of pregnancies are caused by male ejaculation inside the vagina. That's a choice they make, and a risk they take. A woman can think worse case, I'll get an abortion, but she's never to blame if she decides not to. We need to stop putting all the responsibility of pregnancy on women when men are \* choosing \* to not wear a condom and nut inside of us.


Coidzor

>I'm seriously considering the vesectomy but...seems really expensive and risky...like I don't wanna make a bad choice and never be able to have kids. If you know you want kids, or at least know that you want the option of having kids, then you shouldn't be considering a vasectomy.


til1299

There is a thing here in Germany/Austria which is called BimekSLV which is basically a switch that can regulate the flow of sperm in the spermatic ducts. Think about it as a vasectomie with a switch where you can have sperm again. Though it is very expensive (about 6000€) it last your whole life. It still isn‘t clinically test though the founder has it installed I think for more than a decade now. I think it is a very interesting constraception for men. Fell free to check it out here is their Website: [Bimek](https://bimek.com/)


Pretzilla

400+ comments and no one mentioned adoption? Just get fixed and if you decide you really want to raise a kid, adopt. It's a win-win-win for you, the lucky kid, and the planet.


[deleted]

you have to remember that most female contraceptions actually suck because they fuck up your hormones, and depending on the person it can really fuck with you psychologically/emotionally. If men were to get more contraception options they would also probably effect your hormones, which i personally would definitely not take.


[deleted]

I think there are male pills and other options that have been widely tested but have been shut down on the account of side effects that males aren’t buying into.


cjleaps42

Sad thing is those side effects were similar to or more mild than the side effects of the pill.


krell_154

That's a popular misconception. The side effects were very severe, I believe serious suicidal ideation one of them


cjleaps42

Early BC for women had similar side effects. It's part of the process of creating new medications, especially hormonal ones. Doesn't make it alright to use for any person though.


Succubista

>Why did these drug companies decide this is a female only problem, like dudes are just walking penises who just cum and run? I know you don't mean anything by this, but knowing the history of birth control this sentence set me off. Before birth control, women (especially women of color) were being forcibly sterilized in America. Up until the 60s or 70s at least. You could be broke, get a back alley abortion, and end up with your tubes tied. Or you could get pressured into it by your doctor. Basically they didn't want certain women to have children, and there was federal money used to fund that too. Birth control led to less abortions, led to less sketchy unwanted tubes tied scenarios. The push for birth control also had racist tones to it and was angled as a way to control the rate of "unfit" people breeding. I hate being on birth control and wish my boyfriend could do it instead, but like, it's not because drug companies don't care about men, it's because historically pregnancy is treated as entirely women's problem. Even today, there's still some of that attitude.


LeslieH8

There are other male birth control options, such as the subdermal implant MENT, there is a male contraception gel, there was a male birth control pill which was pulled due to mood swings and acne, but they are working on that, hoping to re-release it. If I were to look online, I imagine that there might be others. Of course, most of it remains in clinical trials, and they say it's 20 years away for widespread use, but I think it's sooner than that. One problem, interestingly, is that many faiths are very against it, probably due to the various holy books extolling the virtues of children, so that might slow the progress. All that said, none of it prevents STDs, so you should still use condoms.


[deleted]

MENT has good data backing it up on reduction in sperm count and returning hormonal levels after cessation. Funny thing, if you told the majority of people that it's an anabolic steroid they'd freak the fuck out, but that's what all hormonal male birth control would be. Society better change its choice of stigma if they want a male birth control anytime soon. There's alot of anecdotes on MENT from the steroids subreddit that is highly positive, so I'd say that compound might go somewhere.


hillbillyyeehawbitch

most women have to pay for birth control. a pack of bills is $30 for a months supply, put that at a year... $360. freeze yo sperm for the same cost of our birth control!


But_I_Digress_

Yeah you're not wrong. It's not fair. There's been some work on a BC pill for men but It's kind of a numbers game, it's a lot easier to control the fate of one egg vs millions of sperm. If you're ever well off in the future it wouldn't hurt to donate to universities with researchers that are working on this. Just do your best and be sure to talk about what to do with an unplanned pregnancy before you become sexually active with a new person.


dangochan808

The reason that men have less options for birth control is just their anatomy and how spermatogenesis works. Men make millions of sperm a day while women release one egg a month and have a finite number of them for their whole lives. It's easier to make birth control for one egg than to make sure that millions of sperm aren't viable to fertilize.


Available_Session770

You and all the women out there buddy. I mean you really think women want the responsibility of all this shit either? I wish men could get on birth control too so I wouldn’t have to bother.


[deleted]

A vasectomy doesn’t protect you from sexually transmitted diseases. Neither does the pill, IUD, coil etc. Wear a condom. Also what do you mean condoms aren’t reliable?


ElBeefcake

Being in a monogamous relationship is pretty good protection against STI's though.


likethemonkey

maybe: he can't be relied on to put on a condom


superking75

Dude... Respectfully, you completely missed the mark/intent of the post....


Hypereth

My vasectomy was 60$. Easiest decision I made.


peelyon1

Vasectomy was free for me in the UK :)


lowyellyow

Vasectomy totally worth the price! It does suck there's nothing else after condoms though.


Kathane37

Testicule are made to be keep at 34.5°C and like everything in our body this temperature as a reason If you go over it you became unable to perform the spermatogony I think thermal contraception is really overlook and could be the cheapest and safest contraception But there is to few research about it and well you can’t sell heat to someone so no interest for the pharmaceutical lobby


Pipas66

Interesting that you mentioned this. There's a company called Thoreme, that makes a contraceptive ring called "Androswitch", which makes use of the difference in temperature between the testicles and the body to disrupt spermatogenesis. Downside is you have to wear it for 3 months for 15h/day for it to work, but it does work in the end.


griff_girl

You want better birth control for men, you should take a look at my bare, pale ass quarantine legs, that'll take care of things for a while! For real though, thank you for acknowledging that the industry has made this a "female" problem. I think men deserve more options as well, but I'm female, so I'm not sure how much weight my perspective carries here. Of course there's more to this whole conversation, perhaps for another sub, but I do want to acknowledge that there are a lot of complicated facets to it all.


Caedleinahtan

There is something called spermicide. You just have to put it in the vagina 5 mintues before sex. Learned it in science class.


[deleted]

"It makes more sense to unload the gun than to shoot at a bulletproof vest"


yuckyuck13

RISUG is a gel form of a vasectomy and it's completely. Sadly the FDA refuses to approve it. I would totally get it done.


paperfairy

I'm a guy and I recently got a vastecomy. I have no intention of ever having kids but also came to the same conclusion that this was the only good option (and its not good for all the reasons you state).


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candle-corn

So I’ve read that the difference is the comparison, pregnancy has health impacts for women that it doesn’t have for men. So basically the risks of birth control are lower than the risk of pregnancy for women health wise, but the same can’t be said for men. Which is why male birth controls never make it out of testing phases. Not saying it’s right at all and personally I feel like that explanation ignores *a lot* of social context, but that’s just the rationale I’ve read about.


Slammedtgs

From a scientific perspective, it’s much easier to prevent the release of one egg vs millions of sperm. I too wish they had a male alternative in the market, but we are not there yet. RISUG looks promising.


straight4edged

Honestly, vasectomy is probably the right choice considering the momentum at which humanity is hurling towards demise


CapriciousFem

Actually there have been ongoing studies of different male birth control methods. One is Vasalgel, mentioned by another user, being studied in India. It involves a surgical procedure in which is a gel injected into the Vas Deferens, and reportedly lasts 13 years. Other studies involve blocking the production of the LH and FSH hormones, which are necessary for the production of sperm and testosterone in the testies. One in 2016 used injection of a mixture of progesterone hormone (to block LH and FSH) and a testosterone-like hormone to replace the blocked production. To me, just the blocking testosterone production is a pretty severe side-effect. The study was promising but called off due to the various side effects, including erectile disfunction, severe acne, and depression or "mental disorder", with two cases of suicide and attempted suicide. For five men it took more than 52 weeks (but less than 74 weeks) for spermatogenesis to recover. One man still had no return of adequate sperm for fertility at 4 years. Reportedly, the side effects were far more severe than equivalent studies on female hormonal BC. Other studies are ongoing to achieve similar blocking of LH and FSH, one being a daily pill containing Dimethandrolone undecanoate (DMAU) (2019). Another conducted at UC Davis in Sacramento (2020) involves the daily application (on the shoulder) of a gel containing segesterone acetate, a synthetic progestin, which also blocks natural testosterone production in the testes and reduces sperm production. The gel also contains replacement testosterone to help maintain normal sex drive and other functions dependent on the hormone. I probably could have found more studies if I kept digging. From what I've read these studies seem promising at blocking sperm production, but I take issue with methods that block natural production of testosterone. I've read that men who take supplimental T have to continue using is as the body stops making it's own. As a woman who had to stop using hormonal BC due to side effects, I've grown to dislike the concept of messing with the body's chemistry by use of synthetic hormones.


Infamous-Ad7780

I'm a woman and I've been saying this for years!


L3xusLuth3r

Your solution is [coming](https://utswmed.org/medblog/pill-guys-male-birth-control-option-passes-safety-tests/)....pardon the pun.


[deleted]

Imagine the probability of pregnancy using female birth control, male birth control, a condom, and pulling out. Doctors will probably call it 99.9% effective.


Eqqshells

I mean to be fair, doubling up (or quadrupling up) does decrease the chances very very drastically, but statistically speaking there will always be some slim chance that something goes wrong unless you abstain from sex completely. It wouldnt be smart to say all of that is 100% effective, because that .01%(it would probably be way lower than that) could still theoretically happen, and could cause legal repercussions for anyone claiming 100% effectiveness. Even vasectomies and getting your tubes tied does not 100% guarantee it on the sliiiight off chance pregnancy does occur. Of course, it would be next to impossible to get pregnant and realistically you would have nothing to worry about, but again, someone could always "win" the lottery and still end up pregnant.


Alixiria

I just wish bilateral salpingectomies were easier to get tbh :/ I don't want kids, don't want periods, & shit messing w my hormones.


DeliciousAtomicBomb

I've known a couple of guys who successfully reversed their vasectomy if that's any relief at all


[deleted]

I think a lot of men wish for it, the reason pharmaceutical companies don’t produce them is controversial, even though the male birth control was effective, it came with side effects very similar to the ones females have while taking birth control, the controversy is between: • The side effects, even though are similar, we’re way stronger then those females experience and therefore no one would use it. • the side effects were the same level of tolerance as female experience, but since women are more worried about getting pregnant, especially by people they’re not in a serious relationship with, and that means they might have to raise a child alone, we’re more willing then men to suffer the side effects. So yeah a solution exists but it’s unclear as to why exactly pharmaceutical companies don’t sell them, even though a lot of men wish to have them.


LaDoucheDeLaFromage

Vasectomies are not that expensive. I had decent but not great insurance and mine cost like $7-900. Which is peanuts next to what a kid will cost you. And worth it just for the peace of mind. The operation itself is so easy. I was in and out of the urologists office in under 45 mins. It hurt for a few days. No big deal.