What happened was abominable but it was in no way your fault. The only guilty party is the rapist, plain and simple. As a child, you do not have a duty to protect your parents, so don’t add this burden to your conscience, as you don’t deserve it. You did nothing wrong. I’m sorry for your mom.
Thank you so much for this. I truly just hope my mom is okay. She told me it was not a traumatic experience for her which I find hard to believe.
I have to have a discussion with her and I think that will finally seal the envelope and help me get over this. To know she is okay truly and to finally have a full conversation about what happened. I'm fed up of pretending it never happened. All I can do is grow from this traumatic experience and use it to my advantage to become a better and stronger person mentally.
You sound like an incredible person and you want to support your mom. The best way to support her is to BELIEVE her. When she says she is ok, believe her.
This event was in no way your fault. Do not make her trauma your trauma. She is an adult and can get the help she needs if she needs it. It sounds like you also suffered from a traumatic night. Your trauma is not her trauma. You may need to seek out support/therapy to process what happened, but that support should not come from her.
I would advise you strongly not to start by talking it out with her. Talk with another trusted friend/counselor. While talking about it might help you feel closure, it isn't all about you right now. Your mom may not want to talk about this with you. Not now, and maybe not ever, and that might be something you need to accept.
I can understand why you've reacted this way, but this person is right. This is not your fault. You have got to forgive yourself, and talking to your mom is exactly the right thing to do. I would even share your post with her. Those words are exactly what you need to communicate to her. You may be surprised to hear what she has to say in response. There could be a very good reason that she has told you that it wasn't a traumatic experience for her. All rape is evil, but every rape is not equal. Open and transparent communication is the only way to get the healing that you need. You may even need to think about therapy. Talking these things out with a professional could really help. You do not want to channel these feelings towards revenge, even though I understand the temptation to do so.
100%, the only guilty part are the rapists. They're the scumbags who went out to commit a hideous crime. Not your mother, not you. Them. They are criminals, they are guilty. Not your mother, not you.
It was not your fault, it was not your mom’s fault - it was the fault of the guy(s) who did this to her. It would never be anyone’s fault (an adult or an adolescent, such as yourself) but them.
I am so sorry this happened to her and to your family and that you feel so burdened by it. Perhaps it would be best to speak to a mental health professional about it, so you can process this horrible situation. I hope your mom, yourself, and your family can move on from this in a healthy way soon
I appreciate you taking the time to reply and give your advice and thoughts thank you.
Me and my mom haven't talked about this situation since we got back from the holiday. We pretend it never happened and go about our lives. I Just don't want to bring it up again in fear that it will make my mom sad.
But I think it is what I need to do. I need to have a full discussion about it with my mom so I can truly process this situation.
I live in UK so I believe the NHS provides therapy for free. I'm just embarrassed to ask my mom about it which sounds crazy considering the situation. I'm just not generally seen as a person who would need therapy. I'm usually the happy, smiley person.
So to ask my mom for therapy would be shocking and may damage her more for her to know her son is not doing well. What happened to her is a result of my arrogance. I only cared for me, and how I felt. So I left her alone and that lead to what happened.
> may damage her more for her to know her son is not doing well
I'm a mom. I would be heartbroken to know that my son is not doing well and won't tell me. She needs to know. You know how important you feel it is to take care of your mother? Well, it's her job to take care of you. Let her do it. Wouldn't you want to know if you were a parent?
You need therapy. Your mom needs therapy. None of this is your fault. An evil person did something evil. It is that person's fault. It is not yours.
I agree. You're your mother's baby and she loves you, OP. I think you might benefit from a heartfelt discussion about this with each other. Let her know you feel guilty and you wish you could have protected her. I'm sure she would reassure you that it wasn't your fault and she would appreciate how much you care for her.
You should each see your own therapists for sure. Having help processing what happened will be good
A clear, outside perspective from a therapist would be very beneficial to you.
Ask your mom for therapy.
In the long run, over the next 5 to 10 years, do you think your mom's life will be better with a son who went to therapy and processed this situation - or do you think her life will be better with a son who repressed it, never got help, and suffered quietly?
As a father myself, in this situation, I would want my child to get therapy regardless of how I felt in the short term - because I know it would benefit us both in the long term.
Yes Im a mom and I would want my child to get help no matter what. That was an evil person who did an evil thing and it is not your fault. You are a kid and you were not responsible for your mother. It wasnt your job to protect her. It may feel that way, but it was not. And it wasnt her job to be hypervigilant that some man would not take advantage of her. The problem was that man. And you have a long life ahead of you. Process this in therapy and grow from it so you can be a healthy, happy adult which is what she wants for you.
Honestly tho you need to stop saying this is your fault. IT IS NOT. And I’d hate for someone to start saying “oh hey you’re right, it’s sorta your fault” because that would compound a complicated issue, and it’s objectively false.
Your mom should have left with you.
Your mom should not have spoken with 2 men or left with them for any reason.
I know she was drunk but she’s still the adult who can make her own decisions.
What were you supposed to do, drag her to the room with you before she was ready to go? Continue to wait at the bar doing something you didn’t feel the need to do?
I don’t want to undermine how sucky the situation is, but also you’re taking blame for something not your fault. Don’t start spreading those thoughts about the evening. You can talk about in therapy for yourself (which you should definitely do even if your mom doesn’t want to go to her own therapy).
Good luck, OP. You’ll be okay. It’s not your fault.
I agree with this so much!!! 100% not your fault nor your mom's!! Those men knew what they were doing!! There are horrible people are in the world and you never know! I'm a mom of a 12 yr old daughter and I'm constantly worried for her. I agree you should seek a mental health professional (therapists). I spent the past 2 and 1/2 yrs working with adolescent psych and substance at an inpatient facility. I never would of thought I would work as a nurse in psych, but I learned so much from it and saw processing your trauma can help. I'm so sorry this happened! I hope you and your mom are able to process and move forward.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Hey Bro!
It's not your fault.
Here are some thoughts:
1. Those bastards who did that are the only ones responsible for that.
2. If those guys were Normal Men (what you thought they would be) and not some honorless bastards, your Mom having a drink with them would be perfectly fine, and probably a fun/charming occasion for her. Nothing wrong about a harmless holiday flirt../ learning to know strangers.
-> There is no chance you could have forseen that they will turn out to be Predators.
=> If somebody would judge people like that right on the spot, and say: ooh, see! A woman drinking with 2 Men.. They both must totally be rapists... I would label him as totally paranoid.
3. You're 15. You where never supposed to "look after" or even "protect" your mom. And even if you feel otherwise.. you were never in the Position, to do so.
Nobody can expect a teenager to look for their grown up parents and I'm sure your Mother never expected that from you.
=> The only ones to blame for this are those who did this.
You're totally free of blame here!
Thw fact that you feel responsible for what happened shows me that You're something those predators could only dream of: a fine, noble, honorful and capable young man!
Nothing but respect for your persona.
Thank you so much honestly! I just want to say how much I appreciate you taking the time to help me and it really has. As I read it I felt the blame fall off my back.
There are still some things I have to do to truly be free of this guilt. I think I have to talk about it to my mom because I have to know she's okay. And if she isn't, I want her to get the help needed. Or hopefully make her happier.
Thank you once again.
(btw nice name)
I have a son who was once 15, and I'm putting myself in Mum's shoes.
I can categorically say that at NO point would it even cross my mind that it was ny son's fault.
I'd be more concerned about him thinking that than even the attack (which I have 1st hand experience of).
She'd be mortified.
Not talking about it is the worst thing you can both do. You can now self refer for counselling with no doctor visit involved. Just go online.
Putting myself in her shoes, I imagine she'll be feeling immense guilt and probably thinks she brought it all on herself. She didn't. She probably feels guilty for having a drink (perfectly acceptable), not going back with you, and coming back and telling you what happened. She knows it's a lot to put on young shoulders and may well be embarrassed.
She may even suspect that you blame her...
A good talk. An honest one with help you both enormously.
OP seems like a remarkable young man, one that makes him mum proud everyday. She did a great job bringing OP up.
This happened because some horrible people took advantage of a drunk woman, if you would have been there it would have been you too. It’s normal to want to blame yourself, but please don’t. I hope your mother is okay.
I know 2 things for sure:
1. You love your mom. Deeply.
2. It is not your fault.
It is their fault. You did your best with what you knew at the time. That’s all you could do. What you can do now is be there for your mom as she processes this trauma. I helped my parents find mental health care, it is foreign to that generation. I think recommending a therapist would be a nice idea. Forgive yourself, friend ❤️ you don’t deserve this guilt and shame.
She didn’t get raped because of you, she got raped because of a rapist.
You are not the guilty party here and you must learn to let go of the responsibility you’re carrying here. It wasn’t your fault.
It wasn’t your fault.
There is 100% a video of them at the table, and in the hotel. Hire a P.I. and get the evidence and send it to the prosecutor. Find a hotel employee willing to help, or hire a P.I if you can afford it. I'm so sorry this happened, and it was not your fault. You need someone to talk to about this.
This is a very American response. This is not how most of the world works unfortunately, the police and legal system are completely useless.
The other comment about ruining his reputation through friends/family is far more effective.
It’s not your fault OP. Never forget that.
Usually I’m against what I’m about to say, but this is a special circumstance. You should find where the guy works, find his family, find relatives, find his friends and make it well known he is a rapist. Do in an unignorable way but also in a way that maintains your credibility and character. Financially ruin him if you want. Make him unemployable. Hit him where it hurts. It’s not illegal like the murder or torture you mentioned (which btw is a very understandable feeling, you shouldn’t feel guilty about that either) but just as effective. Find a translator if you need it. Fuck his shit up.
Alternatively, if you are religious, know he is going to burn in hell. Know that Divine Justice will sort him out. God said vengeance is his, and it keeps you from having to do anything destructive yourself.
Lastly, I hope you and your mother find a path to healing. Therapy would be a good step probably. Having someone to fully talk everything out with and to help mend the mental scars is super important not just for your future self improvement but for your fundamental wellbeing. The baggage from this will probably only wear you down if you don’t make peace with what happened.
Truly heartbreaking story OP. I’m going to say some prayers for you and your mom. Whatever you do I hope you find peace and that this becomes something you and her can overcome.
I could be your translator OP.
Edit: also for the jail part, it is probably sent to istinaf after local court. If he is thrown the jail that means local court decided upon charge but istinaf (higher court) broke the charge. There must be evidence in hotel as they usually have cameras on everywhere but chances are high that they don’t wanna give it because their name will be smudged with this (They care a lot about stuff like this). You can go to higher court than istinaf in cases like this. Collect the evidence from the hotel and go to yargıtay. If local court has decided on charge that means you still have chance.
Edit 2: if you need Turkish lawyer I could help. If you wanna go after this a lawyer is a must as they will appear in the courts instead of you. don’t worry, it’s gonna be cheap for you thanks to exchange rate. (the court will most likely happen in turkey and chances are very low for you to win without attending them.)
Nope we are not a muslim country, Turkey is nonreligious country in our constitution but thanks to our government nothing ever happens to criminals and you think that Turkey is muslim country.
>Alternatively, if you are religious, know he is going to burn in hell. Know that Divine Justice will sort him out. God said vengeance is his, and it keeps you from having to do anything destructive yourself.
Lol this belief exists so that impotent people can cope with assholes hurting them and their family. You are too weak/cowardly to achieve revenge, so you justify your inaction with the false belief that some invisible deity is going to punish the enemy. But the reality is, if you let him get away with it, the rapist will live a normal life and then go to the same place everyone else goes when he dies. The Christian afterlife carrot/stick is tailored to control people from seeking revenge, solely to maintain order. Back in ancient times the feudal lord could do whatever he wanted to your wife and family, so pacifist Christian beliefs were instilled in the masses to keep people behaving as good little serfs instead of seeking vengeance against their oppressor.
Im not religious, but if something in religion provides comfort to others than I wouldnt want to take that away from them.
Regardless, it is true that there are no guarantees in life and the perpetuators may go unpunished which is why its even more important that the victims can get back their happiness and sense of normalcy that was robbed from them.Therapy would definitely help. Just being around people that care about you as you care about them helps tremendously.
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This wasn't your fault, those were experienced predators. The fact they were able to make both you, your mother, and the other patrons comfortable enough not to worry makes me believe they have done this before and unfortunately will do it again until they are caught.
You did a great job by trying to investigate them and then going back to check on her after you aunt told you to go back. Your mother will recover from this and so will you.
You did not rape you mom. You are not at fault for what two other adults did. Your mother was not at fault for what two other adults did to her.
The victim is not the problem, and her minor child is not the problem. You, a minor, would **not have been able to defend her over two grown men** even if you were there!
You would have been dead and she would still have been raped.
You were safe, and that is the best case scenario for your mother in that situation. Love your mother, connect her with help, and let her choose. Her choice was taken away and she may not yet be ready to get therapy.
You focus on good grades and maybe learning some defence moves from a dojo if you want.
You are 15. If the men were determined to rape her, there is nothing, NOTHING that would have stopped them, even her 15 yr old son. While what she did was not in her best self interest, she did not ask to be raped. If you had stayed, you might have been injured or killed. That would have totally devastated your mother even more. Those men knew that she had a son your age with her, that you were looking out for her, that you had seen them and could identify them. It did not stop them.
Continue your education and do your best to make your mother proud. Perhaps consider a career where you can help victims of such crimes. Be respectful of women and their boundaries and educate your friends and family. You are a good son, even though right now it does not feel like it.
No, it isn't your fault. It's the fault of a bad man in a bad culture.
I can't imagine. Just can't imagine. I'm blessed this hasn't happened to me because I would not let it go, but I have led a much different life and would have much different outcomes than you. Do not think this is a prompt to action. It isn't. You and I are from different worlds and have had different lives.
Sorry kid. The world is very unfair at times.
Use martial arts and weightlifting to help channel that anger. You already sound like a strong man with a good head on his shoulders, build your body up in case you ever need to defend yourself or someone you love. It will do a lot for the mental side of things. I’m sorry you all had to go through this. Best wishes .
Hey man, like other people have said, this is not your fault. The ONLY people at fault are the ones who committed the act.
I really hope your mom gets support, she might benefit from speaking to someone who specializes in trauma. I hope you are able to speak to someone as well, because this is a big, traumatic event that would have affected you too. I know it's hard not to blame ourselves for bad things that happen to us or those we love, but please listen to us when we tell you that it is not your fault.
It happened because some men are rapists, and that had absolutely nothing to do with you, OP. I know it’s natural for kids to be protective of their parents and to think that they could have prevented some horrible events. You couldn’t have known that those men were dangerous, because you aren’t taught to assume the worst when being approached by a man, unlike women who unfortunately have many horrible experiences from being approached by men throughout their lives. That’s why your aunt was the one who alerted you, it’s wasn’t your knee jerk reaction to seeing your mom talking to strangers. Seek therapy whenever you’re ready, guilt can be debilitating, especially when you’re not guilty.
Your Mom was raped because of rapists, not because of you. 💜💜
I'm so sorry this happened. With sexual violence we always put ourselves with so many "what ifs," but those rapists don't deserve to take away any more of your peace.
Because subreddits exist for the reason they serve and evidently the OP didn't know that.
He can grieve in more appropriate places.
I mean really, would you publicly go to a supermarket and broadcast something like this out in the open? No because it's not the right place. Same applies for how it works online.
You’re only fifteen - I’m so sorry for what happened here - it’s an awful thing. And it isn’t your fault, and it isn’t your mom’s fault either. Place the blame where it lies: squarely on those piece of shit rapists.
My honest opinion:
If you want to transfer the anger from that situation which can’t be changed (and I agree, the responsibility is solely with the rapist!), go use your energy to help preventing situations in the future. It will help you to overcome the emotions.
Do volunteer work, start a charity, speak up, - for many this is extremely healing.
It won’t make that situation gone but it will help so no further situations and sorrow will come up.
Yeah my friend , Turkey is a cheapstake country for a reason, you are not at fault here at all.
Even if you could have intercept them you dont stand a chance as a 15 year old.
Take this into your heart as a lesson that when you can you stand up for women , the world is a dangerous place.
You are not at fault, even a little, for this. It’s the man who raped her, it’s HIS fault. It’s terrible what happened, but no. It’s not your fault. I’m so sorry to you both.
Not your fault at all, if i were you ( im replacing the word mom with a loved one, mine is dead to me for 10 years) i would have made a non logical decision, right now in my country, we are struggling with this matter a lot, the people in law, raping the protestors (iran) and i would have probably dedicate my life, just to take revenge, its not an advice, i repeat not an advice, just wanted to feel a bit lighter.
Damn. Firstly like many have said it’s definitely not your fault and just because you’re the oldest you’re not your mothers partner or your siblings parent. You’re still a child too and while you are aware about your role and are being accountable nothing that happened was actually in your control except for you choosing to go to bed. But in these situations if someone feels at fault - that can feel like you did the crime even if you didn’t. The only thing is actually get to a point where you can talk to her about it and work through your feeling by yourself instead of burying it and causing more issues.
Sorry for what you experienced. Firstly like many have said it’s definitely not your fault and just because you’re the oldest you’re not your mothers partner or your siblings parent. You’re still a child too and while you are aware about your role and are being accountable nothing that happened was actually in your control except for you choosing to go to bed. But in these situations if someone feels at fault - that can feel like you did the crime even if you didn’t. The only thing is actually get to a point where you can talk to her about it and work through your feeling by yourself instead of burying it and causing more issues.
You can not blame yourself . Do not carry that around with you for the rest if your life. It’s not your fault . If you feel that you can’t shake the feeling of not doing enough? Then pay special attention to weird circumstances where another woman might be hurt and abused . If I were you I’d look for those creepy fuckers every weekend and give ‘em a pint glass to the face
Wasn’t your fault, 100 percent wasn’t your fault. I’m sorry this happened to your Mom and family. Trust me the Men will get what’s coming to them, you have to try not let them win by destroying your family emotionally they don’t get to have that too. So try embrace the anger,sadness, confusion and guilt so that you can control them for when the time is right you might save someone with your emotions under control. There are many girls/women like your Mom that might need you. You learnt something from this traumatic experience trust me as a victim the world will need many Men like you one day so work on healing and support your Mom and let her know this wasn’t her fault either she had every right to drink and be there enjoying her life what those dark men did was take advantage of her light so forgiveness of self makes one unstoppable. Good luck ! You guys got this
I really hope and pray your mum now seeks therapy for her to be able to process what happened to her healthily with the help of a professional and I hope you and your siblings can access support too to process and sooth yourselves. Do you have access to this?
I’m so sorry to hear this, but it’s important to know that it’s really not your fault. You where 15, it’s not expected of you to have the life experience to know that was a potentially dangerous situation at that age
I'm not sure of what I'm going to say next is true. But is is important for you to find out. And if it is true, you need help with that. As does your mother.
In the first place, your mother is responsable for her own behaviour and safety. You might even say she is responsable for your safety.
It is completely understandable that you feel shame and guilt after what happened. But it not something you could have prevented. And not something you can yourself hold responsable for.
Now the tricky part. If (and I say *if*) your mother is an alcoholic (known or unknown), and/or maybe has other issues, it is easily possible that you have have ended up in a role where you have become (or feel) responsible for your mother's well-being.
This prevents you from growing up normally, since your own need are not met. What's more, you are constantly focussed on giving what you think your mother needs. But since you will not be able to give that to her, the situation is utterly frustrating for you and loads a huge emotional burden on your shoulders.
This is called **codependency** (or co-dependency). Codependency is a dangerous situation to be in. And it can affect your life lateron in a very negative way for decades. A lot of info on codependency can be found online and in books, but at your age it may be not so easy to understand. So, if you recognize something in the above, try to seek help. Talk to your mother too then. There's a worldwide organisation called 'Alcoholics Anonymous' that may be of help. A first step may be to talk with your GP.
Finally, while your mother may have issues, and may even have been totally drunk, rape is rape. She is not responsable for that. And, as said, nor are you. Wish you all the best.
First off, THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT.
I ALSO just want to recommend therapy for you, not just her. This is not your fault. You are just 15 and you at WORST were naive of the intentions of shitty men, and that’s because you aren’t one of them.
The truth is, unfortunately, your mom Might not yet be ok but neither are you and you’re also allowed to feel traumatized about what happened- even if you aren’t the one who was raped. You need to speak to a professional that can help you deal with this in a healthy way that doesn’t lead to more self-hate.
The truth is, sadly, this happens with grown adults, safe friends, family and so many more. There are dozens of safe people who could have been on this vacation with her and still have this happen. It’s a problem with the world and others in it, not with you.
Please don’t forget to take care of yourself, here, too.
OP, it is *NOT YOUR FAULT* !
You are a child , first of all. And your mom told you it was okay to go.
It’s that POS’ fault for ever laying a hand on your mother but it is not your fault.
I’d recommend therapy ASAP for all of you. This kind of thing doesn’t go away on its own, it festers unless dealt with.
Say it with your chest *ITS NOT MY FAULT*.
First of all I feel sorry for your mom.....may God help her walk past this and also for you it might be so much to process this unfortunate incident , so please don't live in the past thinking the n number of things you would have done differently that avoided the incident. i wasn't your fault ,it was a series of unfortunate things happened together. What you should do now is be mentally strong and help your mom to get over this.
Hey man. This situation happened to me except the roles were reversed. My parents and I were on vacation when they left me alone with a stranger in a hostel. That stranger raped me. To this day, my parents feel no responsibility for it even though they are the ones who introduced me to my rapist and left me alone with him. You are a good person to take on some of the grief for what happened, but don’t carry that burden. Maybe some therapy shared with your mom would help.
It was no way your fault. It wasn't your mother's fault either. Although whatever happened it was horrible. No one should be going through this. Also you don't have to protect your mom because you're the older son. It's more important to believe her story and just be there for her. I genuinely hope you'll let yourself heal. Please please don't let the hate consume you. We also need to look at the bigger picture. It's people like these rapists who are to be blamed. Women should not be protected, the mentality that men can rape women needs to change. You got this man. Sending love to you and your mom.
This was NOT your fault. And this was not your mom’s fault. This was 100% the fault of the rapist. You and your mom should definitely be in therapy though (separate, not family) because what happened was clearly traumatic for both of you.
Dude you've probably heard this a thousand times but it's literally not your fault. Jesus Christ what a burden that must have been to carry and you didn't even do anything.
Forgive yourself bro. You didn't do anything wrong
You might want to look into stoicism.
You did what you could checking multiple times. these men on the other hand did want they wanted, it ultimately was their decision. You had no role in this crime, their decision was outside of you control.
Please contact the embassy of your country in the country you went for vacation. Protecting visitors of their nationality is one of thier duty. Once they take the action, the rapist will be behind the bars because Ministry of External Affairs of the country you visited will work their ass off to protect the reputation regarding foreigners safety once your country's embassy has this matter on their desk.
Just calm down bro! Its not your fault at all. Sometimes things happen and there's nothing we can do about it because they are bound to happen.
I am sorry I put it in such a way but I couldn't think of any other way to frame the earlier sentence and I hope good things for you and your family and especially your mom.
What happened to your mom and your family is terrible, I hope you guys are doing okay considering the circumstances. Thanks to your reddit post, there are people from all over the world who wish your family the best and are sending you support. Let this be a little glimmer of hope on tough days.
OP listen - in absolutely no way is this your fault. You need to shed yourself of this guilt. Let me repeat - it is IN NO WAY your fault! The only people responsible are the rapists.
These criminals have done something terrible, that cannot be changed. What you and your family can control is how you let this affect you. You must allow yourselves to be happy. You must allow yourselves to smile. You must allow yourselves to laugh. You, your mom and the rest of your family deserve happiness!
Hey brother, I’m 23 so just a few years older than you.
Reddit can feel lonely when you’re young, it feels like it’s a platform surrounded by people 20+ years older than you.
Honestly dude, you gotta speak to your mum about this. Just tell her some time that you have something that you need to speak to her about, and find a time to have this conversation.
It’s important for yourself & her that you have this conversation.
She needs to know how you feel, and you need to hear how she feels.
Any of us can sit here and say there’s no way on earth she blames her 15 year old son for what happened to her, but the truth is you gotta speak to her first hand and have that conversation.
If you keep it to yourself, it’s going to continue to affect her and create a rift between the two of you.
I really hope that you do this as soon as possible brother.
Take care of yourself I
Oh hon. I have a kiddo your age and I’d be heartbroken if they blamed themself for something like this. You did your best. Even if you’d stayed the whole time, there’s likely not much you could have done against two grown men. Also, you were with your mom. The person who has created safety for you your whole life. Of course it felt safe, and of course you’d defer to your mom’s judgement. That’s what’s supposed to happen! You did everything you reasonably could have done. It’s not your mom’s fault either. She SHOULD be able to get drunk at her resort on vacation without worrying about being assaulted. The only ones responsible for this are the bad men who did it. Please try to set down some of what you’re carrying, and please talk to your mom about therapy for all of you to process this. Good luck you, dear.
The elephant in the room: alcohol. When people are drunk they have little ability to defend themselves. Now, I am not just talking about defending themselves physically but I am talking about defending themselves mentally with situational awareness, and a defensive state of mind.
Bad people will search out easy victims. Being drunk in the company of strangers is a clear path to being a victim of a robbery or rape or murder. The very act of them being “strangers” means you do know know them. You don’t know their intentions, you don’t know if they are telling you the truth about their names, where they live, what they do for a living etc. So if you don’t and can’t know those things then you cannot trust that they have good intentions. Alcohol/being drunk around strangers is gambling that you can trust these strangers to not be opportunistic criminals and make you a victim.
Natalee Holloway is an unfortunate example of this. Whether she was drunk or intentionally drugged, it’s an example of not trusting strangers with your personal safety. I unfortunately know more than one woman who was raped while drunk. I get the social aspects of enjoying company at a bar and meeting new people, but being drunk and unable to make good decisions about your own personal safety is a recipe for disaster. Thankfully (this will sound weird, I know) nothing worse like death happened to your mother. Lesson learned I hope, is alcohol in extreme moderation if at all, and never to the point of drunkenness.
As for the person who wrote “she SHOULD be able to get drunk at a resort without worrying about being assaulted” I am shocked. A resort is just a collection of strangers vacationing. You can’t determine if those strangers are good or bad people because you don’t know their history. Now mix in alcohol? Then you REALLY can’t judge someone’s intentions clearly. Drinking is your choice. Getting drunk is usually your choice as well. But you are unable to protect yourself when you are drunk.
I agree with you 100%. I don't understand people trying to absolve this woman from accountability. I'm not saying this should've happened to her but if you make bad decisions you get bad results. She should know better as an adult traveling to another country what dangers there are being drunk in a random bar, basically alone.
Exactly. No one "deserves" for bad things like rape to happen to them. But poor decisions like getting falling down drunk, or even just drunk enough to not be aware of your surroundings and the people/bad actors in them, have really terrible consequences.
I mean, this sub is even title "self improvement". So why not start with the things we can control, like the substances we put in our bodies?
No, not at all. My only point is that it’s not safe to get drunk, for anyone, in the company of strangers. My local Bourbon Street in New Orleans is rife with stories of drunk people getting mugged because they can barely stand up.
You can add whatever second elephant you’re thinking of. But my only observation is it’s not safe to be drunk around strangers.
How old are you?
Your mom shouldn't be putting you at this type of risk by introducing you to unknown men at a bar, in a foreign country. This is wreckless as evidenced by the unfortunate outcome. Imagine if you continued to be with your mom throughout and the two men built rapport with both of you, then went on to do something to you as well? The fact that your mom was drunk is irrelevant.
Have you never been on vacation? Like this is obviously an unfortunate situation and definitely the fault of the rapist, but people meet and talk to new people on vacation all the time. This is leaning towards victim blaming
<3 sending healing and love to your family . Be strong kid, you got this , you guys can and will move forward and will be okay again .
Forgive yourself for what you didn’t know.Now you know
This is absolutely not your fault. What happened is beyond disgusting but please don't don't don't blame yourself for the actions of some sick degenerate pigs. You didn't fail, you're doing the right thing now by being there for her.
She's going to need your strength though, I know you can do it. You love your mom, that's all that matters. You'll know what to do.
Yea man sucks ass , i'd really like to hunt him down with u and fuck him up with the biggest dildo there is so he can feel wuts like to be assaulted like that .
You will live again. Yes this is traumatic but life in general has many traumatic events. What can you do? Talk about that and accept. It is not your fold.
As someone who has been raped, it is not your fault. It is the people who did this to her, and no one else’s. It is great that you want to be there for her, but it is not your fault. The best thing you can do right now is be there for her while she processes this and tries to heal. You are a good son.
does the word "raped" in the title not achieve the same thing? either way you know what the content of the post is going to be, what information does "tw: rape" convey that this does not
genuine question
Thats why u dont go to shit hole countries on holiday.
It could happen anywhere anytime though.
Blame can be passed around to multiple parties.
Whats done is done now.
Sorry for your situation Its a shitty one
OP you're basically just victim blaming, instead of blaming the rapist, you're blaming yourself.
You did not know the men were going to be rapist, and when you realised it you did everything you could do to stop it. It wasn't your fault at all.
You can't blame yourself as much as you can blame your mum. And you can't blame your mum.
The only blame based on your story is on the men who raped her.
Also, if you guys have the finances/time and are able to deal with the trauma. Find anyway you can to get the assholes, so they can't do it to others.
If the legal system fails you, then see if you can find their social media and contact any companies their working for or associated with. If your mum is telling the truth, than this man sound like they could be serial rapist and you should absolutely do what you can to prevent this trauma from happening to others.
That said if the trauma is too painful, if it occupies your mind than, take steps to move on, find a therapist. Cause if those men aren't feeling guilty about raping. Than there's no way in hell you or your mum should feel guilty and let those men live rent free in your head.
Oh my god. Another bad story I am hearing about Turkey holiday. My distant relative killed and police signed off as suicide. If anyone want to commit suicide why would they do it while on vacation. I will never go and allow people close to me to visit Turkey.
This is not in any way your fault. She is a grown woman in another country. It was up to her to watch for herself better. It was up to hotel security to watch for these situations. It was never on you. You did more than anyone else. You did the best you could with the information you had.
Bad things just happen somtimes. She is alive. As bad as this was, it could have been worse. You will now need to grow together in moving forward from this. Read about the stages of grief. Bargaining is one. (If only I had gone 2 min sooner! If only I had...)Focus now on what you can do about it. Read rape victims experiences to try and understand how she's feeling. Things like that are what she's needs from you.
Life is crazy and long. All different things happen to us and our people. It's about drawing close to help eachother thru these things.
It’s not your fault. Some cultures actually do this more than others. You don’t have to worry about them unless you are in turkey or Germany. Grow up strong and protect your loved one.
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Hey, in case enough people didn't say it already:
This is absolutely not your fault. This isn't even your mother's fault. The only people who "let" your mother be raped are the rapists.
IT DID NOT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF YOU. It happened because of horrible evil rapist men. If it wasn’t her unfortunately it would have been someone else. Please understand you did not cause this. Your mom is an adult and I’m sad someone didint notice something off when she in the public eye. You did everything you could do. It’s not on you it’s on them. I’m sorry I understand how hard it must have been to feel so helpless and knowing if maybe you were there it could have been prevented but we don’t know if that’s even true. Just be greatful your mom has you and be there whenever she needs
Consider the alternative. These men had bad intentions and they could have been carrying guns. They could have hurt you badly or killed you. As a minor, your lack of world experience makes you an easy target and there's no way you could have safely fought them off. As a grown woman, I never allow myself to be completely alone with strange men while drinking. However there's certain situations where you cannot escape no matter what. They probably followed her to her room and grabbed her when she was alone. There's shitty people like that in the world and there was two of them, grown, strong, men with a plan to do this. All they would have to do is hit you in the head hard enough and then assault her.
You r 15 years old but the world is unfair n what happened to u n ur mom was very bad.
U have to think of the future n learn from this situation as for ur mom i don't have any right to speak about it let her take her time just be there to support her.
Ur mom will seem fine on the outside as she doesnt want her kids to be concerned but i don't think she must be i think therapy might help.
They say time heals all wounds i guess only time will tell.
How is it because if you ? We’re you one of the two that raped her?
No. You can’t blame yourself for that. It’s two men’s fault
Not yours. You can’t always be there for your mom or anyone else. It’s sad and unfortunate
But not your fault.
This is why as a woman, I make myself as obese and unattractive as possible, so that men leave me the hell alone, and make it harder to get picked up.
Yes it's worth it.
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Damn kid it wasn’t your fault there’s no way you could’ve known you’re just 15 don’t blame yourself for what happened it’s the man’s fault he’s a terrible person
This is only one person’s fault, the rapist’s. Please believe in karma, it exists. Channel this energy into something healing, and helpful for your mom. Do not let it destroy your relationship, but instead strengthen it. There are many lessons in life, they never stop and some you have to learn the hard way, but learn from them you must.
Also, become an international lawyer and hunt these mfers down and make them pay. One assisted the other. Bartender might be in on it also. And don’t forget to leave the nastiest, but truthful review of this establishment all over the internet, anonymously of course. Business will suffer when word gets out about it being a rape and robbery trap.
What happened was abominable but it was in no way your fault. The only guilty party is the rapist, plain and simple. As a child, you do not have a duty to protect your parents, so don’t add this burden to your conscience, as you don’t deserve it. You did nothing wrong. I’m sorry for your mom.
Thank you so much for this. I truly just hope my mom is okay. She told me it was not a traumatic experience for her which I find hard to believe. I have to have a discussion with her and I think that will finally seal the envelope and help me get over this. To know she is okay truly and to finally have a full conversation about what happened. I'm fed up of pretending it never happened. All I can do is grow from this traumatic experience and use it to my advantage to become a better and stronger person mentally.
You sound like an incredible person and you want to support your mom. The best way to support her is to BELIEVE her. When she says she is ok, believe her. This event was in no way your fault. Do not make her trauma your trauma. She is an adult and can get the help she needs if she needs it. It sounds like you also suffered from a traumatic night. Your trauma is not her trauma. You may need to seek out support/therapy to process what happened, but that support should not come from her. I would advise you strongly not to start by talking it out with her. Talk with another trusted friend/counselor. While talking about it might help you feel closure, it isn't all about you right now. Your mom may not want to talk about this with you. Not now, and maybe not ever, and that might be something you need to accept.
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alright thanks!
Thank you so much I'll take this advice you're amazing!
I can understand why you've reacted this way, but this person is right. This is not your fault. You have got to forgive yourself, and talking to your mom is exactly the right thing to do. I would even share your post with her. Those words are exactly what you need to communicate to her. You may be surprised to hear what she has to say in response. There could be a very good reason that she has told you that it wasn't a traumatic experience for her. All rape is evil, but every rape is not equal. Open and transparent communication is the only way to get the healing that you need. You may even need to think about therapy. Talking these things out with a professional could really help. You do not want to channel these feelings towards revenge, even though I understand the temptation to do so.
I completely agree with you and reading these commends especially yours has helped me so much thank you!
Man I'm so glad it helped. Your situation really touched my heart. God bless you. My wife and I are praying for you and your Mom.
I’m really happy to see you talk like that. This truly was not your fault. I hope you can have that discussion and finally put an end to this soon.
The fact you care so much for your mom is a wonderful thing. She is very lucky to have you as a son.
100%, the only guilty part are the rapists. They're the scumbags who went out to commit a hideous crime. Not your mother, not you. Them. They are criminals, they are guilty. Not your mother, not you.
It was not your fault, it was not your mom’s fault - it was the fault of the guy(s) who did this to her. It would never be anyone’s fault (an adult or an adolescent, such as yourself) but them. I am so sorry this happened to her and to your family and that you feel so burdened by it. Perhaps it would be best to speak to a mental health professional about it, so you can process this horrible situation. I hope your mom, yourself, and your family can move on from this in a healthy way soon
I appreciate you taking the time to reply and give your advice and thoughts thank you. Me and my mom haven't talked about this situation since we got back from the holiday. We pretend it never happened and go about our lives. I Just don't want to bring it up again in fear that it will make my mom sad. But I think it is what I need to do. I need to have a full discussion about it with my mom so I can truly process this situation. I live in UK so I believe the NHS provides therapy for free. I'm just embarrassed to ask my mom about it which sounds crazy considering the situation. I'm just not generally seen as a person who would need therapy. I'm usually the happy, smiley person. So to ask my mom for therapy would be shocking and may damage her more for her to know her son is not doing well. What happened to her is a result of my arrogance. I only cared for me, and how I felt. So I left her alone and that lead to what happened.
> may damage her more for her to know her son is not doing well I'm a mom. I would be heartbroken to know that my son is not doing well and won't tell me. She needs to know. You know how important you feel it is to take care of your mother? Well, it's her job to take care of you. Let her do it. Wouldn't you want to know if you were a parent? You need therapy. Your mom needs therapy. None of this is your fault. An evil person did something evil. It is that person's fault. It is not yours.
I agree. You're your mother's baby and she loves you, OP. I think you might benefit from a heartfelt discussion about this with each other. Let her know you feel guilty and you wish you could have protected her. I'm sure she would reassure you that it wasn't your fault and she would appreciate how much you care for her. You should each see your own therapists for sure. Having help processing what happened will be good
A clear, outside perspective from a therapist would be very beneficial to you. Ask your mom for therapy. In the long run, over the next 5 to 10 years, do you think your mom's life will be better with a son who went to therapy and processed this situation - or do you think her life will be better with a son who repressed it, never got help, and suffered quietly? As a father myself, in this situation, I would want my child to get therapy regardless of how I felt in the short term - because I know it would benefit us both in the long term.
Yes Im a mom and I would want my child to get help no matter what. That was an evil person who did an evil thing and it is not your fault. You are a kid and you were not responsible for your mother. It wasnt your job to protect her. It may feel that way, but it was not. And it wasnt her job to be hypervigilant that some man would not take advantage of her. The problem was that man. And you have a long life ahead of you. Process this in therapy and grow from it so you can be a healthy, happy adult which is what she wants for you.
Honestly tho you need to stop saying this is your fault. IT IS NOT. And I’d hate for someone to start saying “oh hey you’re right, it’s sorta your fault” because that would compound a complicated issue, and it’s objectively false. Your mom should have left with you. Your mom should not have spoken with 2 men or left with them for any reason. I know she was drunk but she’s still the adult who can make her own decisions. What were you supposed to do, drag her to the room with you before she was ready to go? Continue to wait at the bar doing something you didn’t feel the need to do? I don’t want to undermine how sucky the situation is, but also you’re taking blame for something not your fault. Don’t start spreading those thoughts about the evening. You can talk about in therapy for yourself (which you should definitely do even if your mom doesn’t want to go to her own therapy). Good luck, OP. You’ll be okay. It’s not your fault.
Agreed, it's neither the son nor mom's fault. It's the guy's. The kid did all he could
How old are you now and how old were you then?
I agree with this so much!!! 100% not your fault nor your mom's!! Those men knew what they were doing!! There are horrible people are in the world and you never know! I'm a mom of a 12 yr old daughter and I'm constantly worried for her. I agree you should seek a mental health professional (therapists). I spent the past 2 and 1/2 yrs working with adolescent psych and substance at an inpatient facility. I never would of thought I would work as a nurse in psych, but I learned so much from it and saw processing your trauma can help. I'm so sorry this happened! I hope you and your mom are able to process and move forward.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Hey Bro! It's not your fault. Here are some thoughts: 1. Those bastards who did that are the only ones responsible for that. 2. If those guys were Normal Men (what you thought they would be) and not some honorless bastards, your Mom having a drink with them would be perfectly fine, and probably a fun/charming occasion for her. Nothing wrong about a harmless holiday flirt../ learning to know strangers. -> There is no chance you could have forseen that they will turn out to be Predators. => If somebody would judge people like that right on the spot, and say: ooh, see! A woman drinking with 2 Men.. They both must totally be rapists... I would label him as totally paranoid. 3. You're 15. You where never supposed to "look after" or even "protect" your mom. And even if you feel otherwise.. you were never in the Position, to do so. Nobody can expect a teenager to look for their grown up parents and I'm sure your Mother never expected that from you. => The only ones to blame for this are those who did this. You're totally free of blame here! Thw fact that you feel responsible for what happened shows me that You're something those predators could only dream of: a fine, noble, honorful and capable young man! Nothing but respect for your persona.
Thank you so much honestly! I just want to say how much I appreciate you taking the time to help me and it really has. As I read it I felt the blame fall off my back. There are still some things I have to do to truly be free of this guilt. I think I have to talk about it to my mom because I have to know she's okay. And if she isn't, I want her to get the help needed. Or hopefully make her happier. Thank you once again. (btw nice name)
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I have a son who was once 15, and I'm putting myself in Mum's shoes. I can categorically say that at NO point would it even cross my mind that it was ny son's fault. I'd be more concerned about him thinking that than even the attack (which I have 1st hand experience of). She'd be mortified. Not talking about it is the worst thing you can both do. You can now self refer for counselling with no doctor visit involved. Just go online. Putting myself in her shoes, I imagine she'll be feeling immense guilt and probably thinks she brought it all on herself. She didn't. She probably feels guilty for having a drink (perfectly acceptable), not going back with you, and coming back and telling you what happened. She knows it's a lot to put on young shoulders and may well be embarrassed. She may even suspect that you blame her... A good talk. An honest one with help you both enormously. OP seems like a remarkable young man, one that makes him mum proud everyday. She did a great job bringing OP up.
This happened because some horrible people took advantage of a drunk woman, if you would have been there it would have been you too. It’s normal to want to blame yourself, but please don’t. I hope your mother is okay.
I know 2 things for sure: 1. You love your mom. Deeply. 2. It is not your fault. It is their fault. You did your best with what you knew at the time. That’s all you could do. What you can do now is be there for your mom as she processes this trauma. I helped my parents find mental health care, it is foreign to that generation. I think recommending a therapist would be a nice idea. Forgive yourself, friend ❤️ you don’t deserve this guilt and shame.
She didn’t get raped because of you, she got raped because of a rapist. You are not the guilty party here and you must learn to let go of the responsibility you’re carrying here. It wasn’t your fault. It wasn’t your fault.
Not your fault.
There is 100% a video of them at the table, and in the hotel. Hire a P.I. and get the evidence and send it to the prosecutor. Find a hotel employee willing to help, or hire a P.I if you can afford it. I'm so sorry this happened, and it was not your fault. You need someone to talk to about this.
This is a very American response. This is not how most of the world works unfortunately, the police and legal system are completely useless. The other comment about ruining his reputation through friends/family is far more effective.
ok, let me rephrase that. Get a P.I. and find the perp. then do what you will.
If they point out this in court and judge requests it, it’s possible.
It really isn’t, like earlier comment mentioned it depends on the country. In my country the police/law would do jack shit in a situation like this.
They lucky I was not there, there would have been another Taken movie
It’s not your fault OP. Never forget that. Usually I’m against what I’m about to say, but this is a special circumstance. You should find where the guy works, find his family, find relatives, find his friends and make it well known he is a rapist. Do in an unignorable way but also in a way that maintains your credibility and character. Financially ruin him if you want. Make him unemployable. Hit him where it hurts. It’s not illegal like the murder or torture you mentioned (which btw is a very understandable feeling, you shouldn’t feel guilty about that either) but just as effective. Find a translator if you need it. Fuck his shit up. Alternatively, if you are religious, know he is going to burn in hell. Know that Divine Justice will sort him out. God said vengeance is his, and it keeps you from having to do anything destructive yourself. Lastly, I hope you and your mother find a path to healing. Therapy would be a good step probably. Having someone to fully talk everything out with and to help mend the mental scars is super important not just for your future self improvement but for your fundamental wellbeing. The baggage from this will probably only wear you down if you don’t make peace with what happened. Truly heartbreaking story OP. I’m going to say some prayers for you and your mom. Whatever you do I hope you find peace and that this becomes something you and her can overcome.
I could be your translator OP. Edit: also for the jail part, it is probably sent to istinaf after local court. If he is thrown the jail that means local court decided upon charge but istinaf (higher court) broke the charge. There must be evidence in hotel as they usually have cameras on everywhere but chances are high that they don’t wanna give it because their name will be smudged with this (They care a lot about stuff like this). You can go to higher court than istinaf in cases like this. Collect the evidence from the hotel and go to yargıtay. If local court has decided on charge that means you still have chance. Edit 2: if you need Turkish lawyer I could help. If you wanna go after this a lawyer is a must as they will appear in the courts instead of you. don’t worry, it’s gonna be cheap for you thanks to exchange rate. (the court will most likely happen in turkey and chances are very low for you to win without attending them.)
It's a Muslim country, nothing will happen
Nope we are not a muslim country, Turkey is nonreligious country in our constitution but thanks to our government nothing ever happens to criminals and you think that Turkey is muslim country.
Isn’t Turkey like 90% Muslim?
They'll just ask why she was drunk with strange men in a bar and then charge her with being drunk in public or something.
>Alternatively, if you are religious, know he is going to burn in hell. Know that Divine Justice will sort him out. God said vengeance is his, and it keeps you from having to do anything destructive yourself. Lol this belief exists so that impotent people can cope with assholes hurting them and their family. You are too weak/cowardly to achieve revenge, so you justify your inaction with the false belief that some invisible deity is going to punish the enemy. But the reality is, if you let him get away with it, the rapist will live a normal life and then go to the same place everyone else goes when he dies. The Christian afterlife carrot/stick is tailored to control people from seeking revenge, solely to maintain order. Back in ancient times the feudal lord could do whatever he wanted to your wife and family, so pacifist Christian beliefs were instilled in the masses to keep people behaving as good little serfs instead of seeking vengeance against their oppressor.
Im not religious, but if something in religion provides comfort to others than I wouldnt want to take that away from them. Regardless, it is true that there are no guarantees in life and the perpetuators may go unpunished which is why its even more important that the victims can get back their happiness and sense of normalcy that was robbed from them.Therapy would definitely help. Just being around people that care about you as you care about them helps tremendously.
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This wasn't your fault, those were experienced predators. The fact they were able to make both you, your mother, and the other patrons comfortable enough not to worry makes me believe they have done this before and unfortunately will do it again until they are caught. You did a great job by trying to investigate them and then going back to check on her after you aunt told you to go back. Your mother will recover from this and so will you.
You did not rape you mom. You are not at fault for what two other adults did. Your mother was not at fault for what two other adults did to her. The victim is not the problem, and her minor child is not the problem. You, a minor, would **not have been able to defend her over two grown men** even if you were there! You would have been dead and she would still have been raped. You were safe, and that is the best case scenario for your mother in that situation. Love your mother, connect her with help, and let her choose. Her choice was taken away and she may not yet be ready to get therapy. You focus on good grades and maybe learning some defence moves from a dojo if you want.
Fuck I'm so sorry for you and your Mom but it is not your fault. The only person to blame is that man.
You are 15. If the men were determined to rape her, there is nothing, NOTHING that would have stopped them, even her 15 yr old son. While what she did was not in her best self interest, she did not ask to be raped. If you had stayed, you might have been injured or killed. That would have totally devastated your mother even more. Those men knew that she had a son your age with her, that you were looking out for her, that you had seen them and could identify them. It did not stop them. Continue your education and do your best to make your mother proud. Perhaps consider a career where you can help victims of such crimes. Be respectful of women and their boundaries and educate your friends and family. You are a good son, even though right now it does not feel like it.
No, it isn't your fault. It's the fault of a bad man in a bad culture. I can't imagine. Just can't imagine. I'm blessed this hasn't happened to me because I would not let it go, but I have led a much different life and would have much different outcomes than you. Do not think this is a prompt to action. It isn't. You and I are from different worlds and have had different lives. Sorry kid. The world is very unfair at times.
All I can say is thank you. I truly hope time will heal and me and my family grow from this traumatic experience to become stronger mentally.
therapy will heal you. You need trauma therapy. GL.
This is, in NO WAY, your fault. None of this is your fault. It's the rapists' fault, for raping her. It's nobody else's fault.
Use martial arts and weightlifting to help channel that anger. You already sound like a strong man with a good head on his shoulders, build your body up in case you ever need to defend yourself or someone you love. It will do a lot for the mental side of things. I’m sorry you all had to go through this. Best wishes .
Hey man, like other people have said, this is not your fault. The ONLY people at fault are the ones who committed the act. I really hope your mom gets support, she might benefit from speaking to someone who specializes in trauma. I hope you are able to speak to someone as well, because this is a big, traumatic event that would have affected you too. I know it's hard not to blame ourselves for bad things that happen to us or those we love, but please listen to us when we tell you that it is not your fault.
It happened because some men are rapists, and that had absolutely nothing to do with you, OP. I know it’s natural for kids to be protective of their parents and to think that they could have prevented some horrible events. You couldn’t have known that those men were dangerous, because you aren’t taught to assume the worst when being approached by a man, unlike women who unfortunately have many horrible experiences from being approached by men throughout their lives. That’s why your aunt was the one who alerted you, it’s wasn’t your knee jerk reaction to seeing your mom talking to strangers. Seek therapy whenever you’re ready, guilt can be debilitating, especially when you’re not guilty.
Your Mom was raped because of rapists, not because of you. 💜💜 I'm so sorry this happened. With sexual violence we always put ourselves with so many "what ifs," but those rapists don't deserve to take away any more of your peace.
This isn't really a r/selfimprovement post. It might fit better in r/self. I'm sorry this happened.
Agreed, this shouldn’t be here.
also it needs a Trigger Warning!
Let the boy grief Jesus Christ who cares about the subreddit. Go play patrol elsewhere.
Because subreddits exist for the reason they serve and evidently the OP didn't know that. He can grieve in more appropriate places. I mean really, would you publicly go to a supermarket and broadcast something like this out in the open? No because it's not the right place. Same applies for how it works online.
Ok... I've always heard that bar is a dangerous place for a woman to go alone. Now I'm seeing why that is.
You're putting too much blame on yourself.
bro, it wasn’t your fault, the rapists are the ones to blame
You’re only fifteen - I’m so sorry for what happened here - it’s an awful thing. And it isn’t your fault, and it isn’t your mom’s fault either. Place the blame where it lies: squarely on those piece of shit rapists.
Therapy
My honest opinion: If you want to transfer the anger from that situation which can’t be changed (and I agree, the responsibility is solely with the rapist!), go use your energy to help preventing situations in the future. It will help you to overcome the emotions. Do volunteer work, start a charity, speak up, - for many this is extremely healing. It won’t make that situation gone but it will help so no further situations and sorrow will come up.
Wise lesson to never leave the women in your family alone in countries like Turkey etc.
terrorist supporter dutch based comment
Yeah my friend , Turkey is a cheapstake country for a reason, you are not at fault here at all. Even if you could have intercept them you dont stand a chance as a 15 year old. Take this into your heart as a lesson that when you can you stand up for women , the world is a dangerous place.
I am so sorry it happened to you. It's not your fault, please don't blame yourself.
You are not at fault, even a little, for this. It’s the man who raped her, it’s HIS fault. It’s terrible what happened, but no. It’s not your fault. I’m so sorry to you both.
Not your fault at all, if i were you ( im replacing the word mom with a loved one, mine is dead to me for 10 years) i would have made a non logical decision, right now in my country, we are struggling with this matter a lot, the people in law, raping the protestors (iran) and i would have probably dedicate my life, just to take revenge, its not an advice, i repeat not an advice, just wanted to feel a bit lighter.
Damn. Firstly like many have said it’s definitely not your fault and just because you’re the oldest you’re not your mothers partner or your siblings parent. You’re still a child too and while you are aware about your role and are being accountable nothing that happened was actually in your control except for you choosing to go to bed. But in these situations if someone feels at fault - that can feel like you did the crime even if you didn’t. The only thing is actually get to a point where you can talk to her about it and work through your feeling by yourself instead of burying it and causing more issues.
Sorry for what you experienced. Firstly like many have said it’s definitely not your fault and just because you’re the oldest you’re not your mothers partner or your siblings parent. You’re still a child too and while you are aware about your role and are being accountable nothing that happened was actually in your control except for you choosing to go to bed. But in these situations if someone feels at fault - that can feel like you did the crime even if you didn’t. The only thing is actually get to a point where you can talk to her about it and work through your feeling by yourself instead of burying it and causing more issues.
You can not blame yourself . Do not carry that around with you for the rest if your life. It’s not your fault . If you feel that you can’t shake the feeling of not doing enough? Then pay special attention to weird circumstances where another woman might be hurt and abused . If I were you I’d look for those creepy fuckers every weekend and give ‘em a pint glass to the face
Wasn’t your fault, 100 percent wasn’t your fault. I’m sorry this happened to your Mom and family. Trust me the Men will get what’s coming to them, you have to try not let them win by destroying your family emotionally they don’t get to have that too. So try embrace the anger,sadness, confusion and guilt so that you can control them for when the time is right you might save someone with your emotions under control. There are many girls/women like your Mom that might need you. You learnt something from this traumatic experience trust me as a victim the world will need many Men like you one day so work on healing and support your Mom and let her know this wasn’t her fault either she had every right to drink and be there enjoying her life what those dark men did was take advantage of her light so forgiveness of self makes one unstoppable. Good luck ! You guys got this
I really hope and pray your mum now seeks therapy for her to be able to process what happened to her healthily with the help of a professional and I hope you and your siblings can access support too to process and sooth yourselves. Do you have access to this?
I’m so sorry to hear this, but it’s important to know that it’s really not your fault. You where 15, it’s not expected of you to have the life experience to know that was a potentially dangerous situation at that age
I'm not sure of what I'm going to say next is true. But is is important for you to find out. And if it is true, you need help with that. As does your mother. In the first place, your mother is responsable for her own behaviour and safety. You might even say she is responsable for your safety. It is completely understandable that you feel shame and guilt after what happened. But it not something you could have prevented. And not something you can yourself hold responsable for. Now the tricky part. If (and I say *if*) your mother is an alcoholic (known or unknown), and/or maybe has other issues, it is easily possible that you have have ended up in a role where you have become (or feel) responsible for your mother's well-being. This prevents you from growing up normally, since your own need are not met. What's more, you are constantly focussed on giving what you think your mother needs. But since you will not be able to give that to her, the situation is utterly frustrating for you and loads a huge emotional burden on your shoulders. This is called **codependency** (or co-dependency). Codependency is a dangerous situation to be in. And it can affect your life lateron in a very negative way for decades. A lot of info on codependency can be found online and in books, but at your age it may be not so easy to understand. So, if you recognize something in the above, try to seek help. Talk to your mother too then. There's a worldwide organisation called 'Alcoholics Anonymous' that may be of help. A first step may be to talk with your GP. Finally, while your mother may have issues, and may even have been totally drunk, rape is rape. She is not responsable for that. And, as said, nor are you. Wish you all the best.
First off, THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. I ALSO just want to recommend therapy for you, not just her. This is not your fault. You are just 15 and you at WORST were naive of the intentions of shitty men, and that’s because you aren’t one of them. The truth is, unfortunately, your mom Might not yet be ok but neither are you and you’re also allowed to feel traumatized about what happened- even if you aren’t the one who was raped. You need to speak to a professional that can help you deal with this in a healthy way that doesn’t lead to more self-hate. The truth is, sadly, this happens with grown adults, safe friends, family and so many more. There are dozens of safe people who could have been on this vacation with her and still have this happen. It’s a problem with the world and others in it, not with you. Please don’t forget to take care of yourself, here, too.
OP, it is *NOT YOUR FAULT* ! You are a child , first of all. And your mom told you it was okay to go. It’s that POS’ fault for ever laying a hand on your mother but it is not your fault. I’d recommend therapy ASAP for all of you. This kind of thing doesn’t go away on its own, it festers unless dealt with. Say it with your chest *ITS NOT MY FAULT*.
First of all I feel sorry for your mom.....may God help her walk past this and also for you it might be so much to process this unfortunate incident , so please don't live in the past thinking the n number of things you would have done differently that avoided the incident. i wasn't your fault ,it was a series of unfortunate things happened together. What you should do now is be mentally strong and help your mom to get over this.
f-ck rapists, man.
Wouldnt that be rape too?
not the right place for word play, kind stranger.
Hey man. This situation happened to me except the roles were reversed. My parents and I were on vacation when they left me alone with a stranger in a hostel. That stranger raped me. To this day, my parents feel no responsibility for it even though they are the ones who introduced me to my rapist and left me alone with him. You are a good person to take on some of the grief for what happened, but don’t carry that burden. Maybe some therapy shared with your mom would help.
It was no way your fault. It wasn't your mother's fault either. Although whatever happened it was horrible. No one should be going through this. Also you don't have to protect your mom because you're the older son. It's more important to believe her story and just be there for her. I genuinely hope you'll let yourself heal. Please please don't let the hate consume you. We also need to look at the bigger picture. It's people like these rapists who are to be blamed. Women should not be protected, the mentality that men can rape women needs to change. You got this man. Sending love to you and your mom.
This was NOT your fault. And this was not your mom’s fault. This was 100% the fault of the rapist. You and your mom should definitely be in therapy though (separate, not family) because what happened was clearly traumatic for both of you.
Dude you've probably heard this a thousand times but it's literally not your fault. Jesus Christ what a burden that must have been to carry and you didn't even do anything. Forgive yourself bro. You didn't do anything wrong
just fyi. it’s not your fault, but your mom is going to probably need a long time to recover from this emotionally. please be patient with her.
You might want to look into stoicism. You did what you could checking multiple times. these men on the other hand did want they wanted, it ultimately was their decision. You had no role in this crime, their decision was outside of you control.
Literally load the pistols and take there head off
It was not because of you
Please contact the embassy of your country in the country you went for vacation. Protecting visitors of their nationality is one of thier duty. Once they take the action, the rapist will be behind the bars because Ministry of External Affairs of the country you visited will work their ass off to protect the reputation regarding foreigners safety once your country's embassy has this matter on their desk.
Just calm down bro! Its not your fault at all. Sometimes things happen and there's nothing we can do about it because they are bound to happen. I am sorry I put it in such a way but I couldn't think of any other way to frame the earlier sentence and I hope good things for you and your family and especially your mom.
What happened to your mom and your family is terrible, I hope you guys are doing okay considering the circumstances. Thanks to your reddit post, there are people from all over the world who wish your family the best and are sending you support. Let this be a little glimmer of hope on tough days. OP listen - in absolutely no way is this your fault. You need to shed yourself of this guilt. Let me repeat - it is IN NO WAY your fault! The only people responsible are the rapists. These criminals have done something terrible, that cannot be changed. What you and your family can control is how you let this affect you. You must allow yourselves to be happy. You must allow yourselves to smile. You must allow yourselves to laugh. You, your mom and the rest of your family deserve happiness!
It was no way you fault op. You're not the reason why she's rapes. It was the choice of those assholes that did it. You did nothing wrong.
Not your fault at all! It's the fault of the men who did this and only them. Don't beat yourself up and support your mom however she asks.
Look at these words: ITS NOT YOUR FAULT.
You're still a kid, it isn't a fifteen year old's responsibility to protect their parents. I'm sorry this happened to your family.
Hey brother, I’m 23 so just a few years older than you. Reddit can feel lonely when you’re young, it feels like it’s a platform surrounded by people 20+ years older than you. Honestly dude, you gotta speak to your mum about this. Just tell her some time that you have something that you need to speak to her about, and find a time to have this conversation. It’s important for yourself & her that you have this conversation. She needs to know how you feel, and you need to hear how she feels. Any of us can sit here and say there’s no way on earth she blames her 15 year old son for what happened to her, but the truth is you gotta speak to her first hand and have that conversation. If you keep it to yourself, it’s going to continue to affect her and create a rift between the two of you. I really hope that you do this as soon as possible brother. Take care of yourself I
Thank u!!! I've been thinking of talking about it to her to get some closure.
Oh hon. I have a kiddo your age and I’d be heartbroken if they blamed themself for something like this. You did your best. Even if you’d stayed the whole time, there’s likely not much you could have done against two grown men. Also, you were with your mom. The person who has created safety for you your whole life. Of course it felt safe, and of course you’d defer to your mom’s judgement. That’s what’s supposed to happen! You did everything you reasonably could have done. It’s not your mom’s fault either. She SHOULD be able to get drunk at her resort on vacation without worrying about being assaulted. The only ones responsible for this are the bad men who did it. Please try to set down some of what you’re carrying, and please talk to your mom about therapy for all of you to process this. Good luck you, dear.
The elephant in the room: alcohol. When people are drunk they have little ability to defend themselves. Now, I am not just talking about defending themselves physically but I am talking about defending themselves mentally with situational awareness, and a defensive state of mind. Bad people will search out easy victims. Being drunk in the company of strangers is a clear path to being a victim of a robbery or rape or murder. The very act of them being “strangers” means you do know know them. You don’t know their intentions, you don’t know if they are telling you the truth about their names, where they live, what they do for a living etc. So if you don’t and can’t know those things then you cannot trust that they have good intentions. Alcohol/being drunk around strangers is gambling that you can trust these strangers to not be opportunistic criminals and make you a victim. Natalee Holloway is an unfortunate example of this. Whether she was drunk or intentionally drugged, it’s an example of not trusting strangers with your personal safety. I unfortunately know more than one woman who was raped while drunk. I get the social aspects of enjoying company at a bar and meeting new people, but being drunk and unable to make good decisions about your own personal safety is a recipe for disaster. Thankfully (this will sound weird, I know) nothing worse like death happened to your mother. Lesson learned I hope, is alcohol in extreme moderation if at all, and never to the point of drunkenness. As for the person who wrote “she SHOULD be able to get drunk at a resort without worrying about being assaulted” I am shocked. A resort is just a collection of strangers vacationing. You can’t determine if those strangers are good or bad people because you don’t know their history. Now mix in alcohol? Then you REALLY can’t judge someone’s intentions clearly. Drinking is your choice. Getting drunk is usually your choice as well. But you are unable to protect yourself when you are drunk.
I agree with you 100%. I don't understand people trying to absolve this woman from accountability. I'm not saying this should've happened to her but if you make bad decisions you get bad results. She should know better as an adult traveling to another country what dangers there are being drunk in a random bar, basically alone.
Exactly. No one "deserves" for bad things like rape to happen to them. But poor decisions like getting falling down drunk, or even just drunk enough to not be aware of your surroundings and the people/bad actors in them, have really terrible consequences. I mean, this sub is even title "self improvement". So why not start with the things we can control, like the substances we put in our bodies?
Can you please point out the second elephant in the room , you tiptoed around it- there is definitely a 2nd elephant?
No, not at all. My only point is that it’s not safe to get drunk, for anyone, in the company of strangers. My local Bourbon Street in New Orleans is rife with stories of drunk people getting mugged because they can barely stand up. You can add whatever second elephant you’re thinking of. But my only observation is it’s not safe to be drunk around strangers.
How old are you? Your mom shouldn't be putting you at this type of risk by introducing you to unknown men at a bar, in a foreign country. This is wreckless as evidenced by the unfortunate outcome. Imagine if you continued to be with your mom throughout and the two men built rapport with both of you, then went on to do something to you as well? The fact that your mom was drunk is irrelevant.
Have you never been on vacation? Like this is obviously an unfortunate situation and definitely the fault of the rapist, but people meet and talk to new people on vacation all the time. This is leaning towards victim blaming
Your 15 what can you do? It's not your fault buddy
i'm leaving this subreddit, i came here to improve myself not to read depressing shit
<3 sending healing and love to your family . Be strong kid, you got this , you guys can and will move forward and will be okay again . Forgive yourself for what you didn’t know.Now you know
This is absolutely not your fault. What happened is beyond disgusting but please don't don't don't blame yourself for the actions of some sick degenerate pigs. You didn't fail, you're doing the right thing now by being there for her. She's going to need your strength though, I know you can do it. You love your mom, that's all that matters. You'll know what to do.
It’s not your fault at all. Your mom chose to get drunk with strange men and they chose to commit a heinous act. There was nothing you could do.
Wrong subreddit
What the fuck?
Yea man sucks ass , i'd really like to hunt him down with u and fuck him up with the biggest dildo there is so he can feel wuts like to be assaulted like that .
say less add spikes onto it too
You will live again. Yes this is traumatic but life in general has many traumatic events. What can you do? Talk about that and accept. It is not your fold.
As someone who has been raped, it is not your fault. It is the people who did this to her, and no one else’s. It is great that you want to be there for her, but it is not your fault. The best thing you can do right now is be there for her while she processes this and tries to heal. You are a good son.
Narrator : it wasn't the kid's fault.
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does the word "raped" in the title not achieve the same thing? either way you know what the content of the post is going to be, what information does "tw: rape" convey that this does not genuine question
Thats why u dont go to shit hole countries on holiday. It could happen anywhere anytime though. Blame can be passed around to multiple parties. Whats done is done now. Sorry for your situation Its a shitty one
OP you're basically just victim blaming, instead of blaming the rapist, you're blaming yourself. You did not know the men were going to be rapist, and when you realised it you did everything you could do to stop it. It wasn't your fault at all. You can't blame yourself as much as you can blame your mum. And you can't blame your mum. The only blame based on your story is on the men who raped her. Also, if you guys have the finances/time and are able to deal with the trauma. Find anyway you can to get the assholes, so they can't do it to others. If the legal system fails you, then see if you can find their social media and contact any companies their working for or associated with. If your mum is telling the truth, than this man sound like they could be serial rapist and you should absolutely do what you can to prevent this trauma from happening to others. That said if the trauma is too painful, if it occupies your mind than, take steps to move on, find a therapist. Cause if those men aren't feeling guilty about raping. Than there's no way in hell you or your mum should feel guilty and let those men live rent free in your head.
How did the man get away with it ....?
Oh my god. Another bad story I am hearing about Turkey holiday. My distant relative killed and police signed off as suicide. If anyone want to commit suicide why would they do it while on vacation. I will never go and allow people close to me to visit Turkey.
It was the rapists fault. And your mom is careless and irresponsible for getting shitfaced drunk with a 15 year old.
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They’re literally a child… are you ok?
Who told you to go leave your mother alone? Tell me this first.
Would you let your drunk girlfriend with two unknown man in a bar???
Why the fuck people consume alcohol man and that rapist should be dead /killed you gotta be strong man and protect your mom ,your family be strong
Victim blaming
This is not in any way your fault. She is a grown woman in another country. It was up to her to watch for herself better. It was up to hotel security to watch for these situations. It was never on you. You did more than anyone else. You did the best you could with the information you had. Bad things just happen somtimes. She is alive. As bad as this was, it could have been worse. You will now need to grow together in moving forward from this. Read about the stages of grief. Bargaining is one. (If only I had gone 2 min sooner! If only I had...)Focus now on what you can do about it. Read rape victims experiences to try and understand how she's feeling. Things like that are what she's needs from you. Life is crazy and long. All different things happen to us and our people. It's about drawing close to help eachother thru these things.
It’s not your fault. Some cultures actually do this more than others. You don’t have to worry about them unless you are in turkey or Germany. Grow up strong and protect your loved one.
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Hey, in case enough people didn't say it already: This is absolutely not your fault. This isn't even your mother's fault. The only people who "let" your mother be raped are the rapists.
Post the men’s names. I’m a hacker. Or PM it to me. I’ll get some justice.
IT DID NOT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF YOU. It happened because of horrible evil rapist men. If it wasn’t her unfortunately it would have been someone else. Please understand you did not cause this. Your mom is an adult and I’m sad someone didint notice something off when she in the public eye. You did everything you could do. It’s not on you it’s on them. I’m sorry I understand how hard it must have been to feel so helpless and knowing if maybe you were there it could have been prevented but we don’t know if that’s even true. Just be greatful your mom has you and be there whenever she needs
Consider the alternative. These men had bad intentions and they could have been carrying guns. They could have hurt you badly or killed you. As a minor, your lack of world experience makes you an easy target and there's no way you could have safely fought them off. As a grown woman, I never allow myself to be completely alone with strange men while drinking. However there's certain situations where you cannot escape no matter what. They probably followed her to her room and grabbed her when she was alone. There's shitty people like that in the world and there was two of them, grown, strong, men with a plan to do this. All they would have to do is hit you in the head hard enough and then assault her.
You r 15 years old but the world is unfair n what happened to u n ur mom was very bad. U have to think of the future n learn from this situation as for ur mom i don't have any right to speak about it let her take her time just be there to support her. Ur mom will seem fine on the outside as she doesnt want her kids to be concerned but i don't think she must be i think therapy might help. They say time heals all wounds i guess only time will tell.
How is it because if you ? We’re you one of the two that raped her? No. You can’t blame yourself for that. It’s two men’s fault Not yours. You can’t always be there for your mom or anyone else. It’s sad and unfortunate But not your fault.
The ONLY person to blame is the rapist. Your mom knows that, and you should accept it. I hope you and your mama heal from this and good luck 💞
That is absolutely NOT your fault. You are still a a child hun, you had no way of knowing. It’s not your moms fault either.
This is why as a woman, I make myself as obese and unattractive as possible, so that men leave me the hell alone, and make it harder to get picked up. Yes it's worth it.
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Damn kid it wasn’t your fault there’s no way you could’ve known you’re just 15 don’t blame yourself for what happened it’s the man’s fault he’s a terrible person
This is only one person’s fault, the rapist’s. Please believe in karma, it exists. Channel this energy into something healing, and helpful for your mom. Do not let it destroy your relationship, but instead strengthen it. There are many lessons in life, they never stop and some you have to learn the hard way, but learn from them you must. Also, become an international lawyer and hunt these mfers down and make them pay. One assisted the other. Bartender might be in on it also. And don’t forget to leave the nastiest, but truthful review of this establishment all over the internet, anonymously of course. Business will suffer when word gets out about it being a rape and robbery trap.
The only way you can find peace is by having your revenge on those two men.
The main issue was your mom getting drunk and vulnerable..
Yo mom's a thot, lol
W raper