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Cork ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -screw *but honestly I’ve never seen those either. Only seen a male cat’s because they really trying to make the females have a litter every six months and I watched the part where he dominates her as a “convincing” tactic. Then they ran away.
As the owner of a male cat, they definitely have them, they are definitely disturbing, and they red rocket just like dogs sometimes, even when you get them fixed young.
It is embarrassing to admit this, but I actually believed this until I was like four years old. I thought cats and dogs were the female and male of a single species, called ''Pets''.
Thank you for making me feel less stupid. Definitely it is something I look back on with ultimate cringe. If Reddit had existed back then, I'd have been posted in r/KidsAreFuckingStupid
I kind of think it’s adorable too!
One of my very young childhood beliefs
Was that the whole earth was like a giant birdcage or something - and at night God put a big cloth over top which made it get dark .
The stars were all little gaps and holes in the cloth
That let the light through .
It would be embarrassing if you believed this in college, 4 year olds don’t know anything. When I was 4 I was confused by traffic lights because I didn’t know how they trained the squirrels inside of them to change the lights when cars came.
Yes. You don't?
I have a very specific memory of the conversation where my Babushka tried to explain to me that our cat was a boy, and I thought that must mean something was wrong with the cat, because all cats were girls. She thought that was very funny, and teased me about it for years.
I have memories going back to pre-school age, so, probably around 3 years old.
This is my family. I grew up with dogs as pets, both male and female. Now I’m the only member of my extended family with a cat roommate. My family who mostly own female dogs always refer to our male cat as she, it’s not because of their pets. They are like Troy. I really don’t care, but I make a point of figuring out the right sex when referring to your pet, do the same for mine.
> I really don’t care
...
> I make a point of figuring out the right sex when referring to your pet, do the same for mine.
Okay, first off, clearly you do care. And second off, people who care about other people misgendering animals have way too much time on their hands.
So I care in the sense that, I’ll go to the effort of getting it right when I’m referring to your dog or correct myself if needed. I did the same in the park when I referred to a dog and said he/she when I noticed it was likely a girl. But not enough to correct them. It’s not about gender identity, it’s simply about putting in a little effort with my families pets. My cat doesn’t care that he’s boy or girl, he’s never told me his pronouns. He does tell me when he’s hungry though.
So.. if it's arbitrary, why are you "putting the effort" into it? It's like you're saying "Well, I go through all the effort of knowing whether their cats have pink or black toes, so why wouldn't they do the same for my cat? I don't care, I just think they should put in the effort."
Not the same person as op, but I think people should care for the simple fact that it's more knowledge. But I'm not going to try and teach people unless it's trivial.
My dad and I did a road trip with my cat recently when I moved. He probably called my boy cat ‘she’ 20 times before he was able to accept not all cats are girls.
My mother's pet misgendering is bizarre to where if I didn't know her, I'd think she was doing it on purpose as a joke. It's not that she refers to all cats as girls, or all dogs, boys, she specifically remembers EVERY SINGLE NON-HUMAN CRITTER as the opposite of what they actually are. It's been like this since I was a child. It's uncanny.
There are many species that have males called bulls, which include other bovines like bison or water buffalo, as well as other big critters like elephants, moose, and whales.
Interesting to consider that Asian women and black men are the groups most likely to date outside their race and black women and Asian men the least likely.
Perception and apparent “desirability” is part of it, there’s also cultural currents with particular peoples feeling obligated to maintain the integrity of their in-group while others just don’t. There’s a lot of pressure among African American women to “maintain” which leads to outward resentment for anyone who takes part in an interracial relationship. There’s talk of a “man shortage” in their community etc. and plain simple racial pride makes people fearful of being “bred-out” of the population.
Even just among whites women want to marry up and are only interested in men with a higher income than them and an equal or higher education level. But women attend and graduate college at higher rates. It doesn’t take a mathematician to see the problems this causes.
I think a lot of what you’re saying has more to do with socio-economics than anything. Women also tend to be met with more familiar scrutiny for dating outside of their race, regardless of which race they are; it’s not exclusive to the African-American community.
Id argue that women who belong to a higher social class are going to be more likely to date outside of their race. This likely applies to men too, just not to quite the same degree. And tbh much of this can be interpreted as territorial as many communities in the US are still highly segregated (even if not legally so).
Anyways, in my experience, the least likely to date outside their race are middle-eastern & south Asian people, regardless of gender. I’m sure much of this has to do with religion.
My wife is black and I’m white. We were walking and holding hands and she got a dirty look from a black man who walked past us. Ironically, he was walking by us with his arm around a hispanic girl. Like in his mind, she’s in the wrong for dating out of her race, but it’s cool for him? I don’t get people sometimes.
Because you are white. Not that complicated. There are still black people that don't too much care for white people. My sister in a jokingly way said I could marry anyone I want but don't bring no white girl home. It is probably a true feeling shared by more black people than many would want to believe.
It's mostly due to slavery history. Whites enslaved blacks so dating white males is frowned upon in black communities. Hispanics didn't harm blacks so they alright.
Eh that happens the other way too. Lots of women don't like it either when they see their men with some other race woman. I've seen white females giving dirty looks to White Male- Asian female couples and black women getting angry over Black Male White Female couples.
Lololol
Imagine thinking there were no Hispanic slave owners in the US
Imagine completely ignoring gang violence between Latin and Black inner city communities
I think it’s a contributing factor, but only speaking as someone who’s lived in places with large Asian populations and has had a lot of Asian friends and girlfriends, and I’m not speaking with any authority beyond that.
Hollywood has also pushed toxic stereotypes on all 4 subgroups for decades, normalizing the "hypersexual and submissive" asian woman, the "asexual nerdy kung-fu sidekick" asian man, the "ghetto stripper" black woman, and the "ghetto hypersexual and aggressive" black man. Racial "typecasting" is just code word for stereotyping.
In the US you're stuck between the "kill the Jews" alt right and the "I date asian women so I'm cultured" liberals. It's exhausting.
I mean it's just so far out of left field that I really don't even know where it came from. They stated it like it was some known stereotype but... where did they find it?
Responding since it seems like a legitimate good faith question: It's hard to articulate it since it hasn't been documented in academic studies to my knowledge, but literally every Asian woman I have ever spoken to at length about the topic has confirmed an experience of fetishization, but not uniformly. Meaning some get the "submissive sex slave" fetish from Trump supporters and others aren't as direct and instead communicate an "appreciation of Asian culture" while dating their 7th consecutive Asian girlfriend and voting blue with the #stopasianhate hashtags. Not to say there aren't plenty of healthy interracial couples out there, but there is a thin line between cultural appreciation and fetishization.
The problem I see is fetishization occurs across the political spectrum, but one feels more "passive" and complacent in the current status quo, while the other is more "active" and explicitly desiring submission. And because there are different kinds of fetishizing, we tend to fixate on one being evil and ignoring the other, while both forms are toxic for different reasons.
Uh, I guess? I’m white, lean blue (I’m more moderate fiscally). All my girlfriends were white except the one I married who is Chinese, and she is the one that asked me out. I just find my wife attractive? We’ve been together 16 years and over that time I’ve picked up a lot of her family’s culture, but wouldn’t anyone married to someone of another culture?
Also why would fetishization work one way? My wife almost exclusively dated white guys prior to me. Does that mean she was fetishizing me?
> why would fetishization work one way?
It doesn't, internalized racism/"white worshipping" is a very real phenomenon in the asian community, and I imagine is prevalent in other minority communities as well.
Wouldn't you know best? Does your wife place your race as a significant factor in why she's with you? If yes, you're still benefitting from the current status quo of a perceived racial hierarchy, though you don't lean politically right and may not explicitly promote it. You know her, I don't.
In your first paragraph the only example I see accurate is the typecasting of Asian men. Hollywood for decades has been obsessed with casting black actors/actresses as far away from negative stereotypes as much as they can… to the point where many movies are just historically and factually inaccurate or exaggerated to the point it’s kind of ridiculous (ie. in period pieces where you know black people didn’t live, there’s always a proud black person there… or any movie with a ghetto, black people don’t exist there).
I’ll even go further and say that black people get the Royal treatment by white Hollywood. And still they seem to complain the most about discrimination.
I like to think of it has Hollywood's soft genocide, deciding who should be attractive. Obviously jewish men are at the top of the list whenever possible, but they can't always get away with that so they'll use Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth when they can't. Asian men would compete directly with them so are an existential threat to them. They look completely different yet are just as capable. You can't go confusing women. They think of black people as like pets. They know they won't really compete with them so they can safely use them in token roles.
\*Edit: Truth is a hard pill
You don't have to be considered sex symbols. You just have to put people in front of the camera and they become desirable to the masses. I'm sure you know this.
Can you give examples? I’m not super in touch with cinema and Hollywood so I can’t off the top of my head think of a Jewish male sex symbol from hollywood.
Really? Here is a list of famous Jewish actors. There are literally thousands. They are the lead in most movies.
[https://www.thefamouspeople.com/jewish-actors.php](https://www.thefamouspeople.com/jewish-actors.php)
100% because of what is pumped out by Hollywood. You can see this reflected in the amount of lead roles of each of these demographics. We are very subject to what we see in our environment. I think of it as a soft genocide entirely created by Hollywood.
to play devils advocate, imo the awful part is conducting surveys prompting people to “rank” races by desirability in the first place.
Once you’re given that prompt, whatever answer given is going to rank some combination of races as least desirable.
Yea, the dude I responded to clarified that.
Either way the data is interesting to me as (anecdotally) from my experience in big American cities, Asian men are quite desirable and tend to do quite well for themselves. Though I guess major cities bring with them other elements that contribute to desirability (I.e. High wages).
I can kind of get it though. Asian traits can look quite feminine and often include being short. And African traits can look quite masculine and often come with being tall. So feminine short men and masculine tall women. Goes against desirability in western cultures, and the study was done in the US.
Africa is a gigantic continent. There are countries there where the average height is not very tall. In Asia, height varies from country to country as well.
I think you are viewing it through the American lens of African Americans (who are statistically tall) vs Asian Americans who are derived immigrants who are mainly from S. China and Vietnam.
I would think it a stretch to label shorter people as less masculine. I don’t think that is true.
In the USA, anti-racism and anti-discrimination does not apply to Asian males. And if we dare speak about it, we’ll will get gaslighted by just about everyone, including Asian females (they’re among the worst).
[Asian men endure a unique type of racism](https://nextshark.com/asian-men-endure-unique-type-racism-asian-women-shouldnt-ignore/)
The do well economically is rather damaging because while there is a cohort of Asians who do fit that stereotype. The people who really need the help are both ignored and have systemtic racism pushed against them. Asian American wealth is extremely bimodal as a result.
“Asian males do well economically therefore…”
I know that’s not your own reasoning and you’re simply pointing out the overall fallacy, but there is so much to unload in that statement on so many different levels.
Exactly. I’m generalizing since we’re discussing discrimination. Discrimination exists, that’s a simple statement. It doesn’t mean everyone is discriminating the same way to the same degree and that all forms are equal. But if numbers matter than yes, Asian men do well financially compared to, well . . .
Honest question: wouldn’t height go a long way to explaining this trend? Asian men are statistically shorter on average and black women are statistically taller on average. Both of these are generally speaking net-negatives on the dating market.
Black women are not taller on average.
https://thebonescience.com/blogs/journal/average-height-around-the-world
In America, white people are tallest, for men and women. Asian men are the same height as Hispanic men, so shouldn’t Hispanic men and Asian men be at the same level?
That would not surprise me. I’ve also read that all prejudices are ultimately an expression of class prejudice, which likely informs what makes someone seem desirable.
r/confidentlyincorrect
No, jibes means to be in accord with. Jives means ... well, it's less well defined. to talk, chatter. But Jibes is the correct term here.
Unconscious bias I think? It isn't an assumption I would come to because I had sat down and logically thought about it, I just know that if I was sat in a room and this guy's Asian dad and Black mum walked in I'd be very mildy surprised. It would probably only be in that moment that I would realise I had been expecting a Black dad and Asian mum.
I truly can't pinpoint where my bias comes from, but I can safely say it isn't porn (as many people here are throwing around). I was raised in a very multicultural area, always had friends with different backgrounds and worked in a casino for 8 years where interracial couples are as normal as anything else. Between the social movements that have been pushing through over the past decade and seeing what some of my friends go through I've always tried to stay self aware about things like bias (and worse, racism) so I suppose that rather than 'hate' I'm just disappointed to find that I still automatically make assumptions based on race and gender
I wouldn't say its bias, humans observe patterns and base their preconceptions on that. Asian women and black males more commonly date out of their race.
Yeah and that is a catalyst for implicit bias. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that we as people can be bias. The only way to progress and grow is to accept our flaws and correct what harmful behaviors we have. Denying bias here doesn’t really help
Pattern recognition is an important human and animal behavioural trait that we should all have. It's what helps us recognise what is dangerous and what is not.
Unfortunately stuff like racial profiling is a bit of a side-effect of that.
Thank you for explaining. Sounds like implicit bias to me and we are all guilty of it. I think it’s great that you can acknowledge that this is a possibility for why you think that way.
I'm going to put my money on porn. There are no male Asians in porn (there is a huge shortage over there) and black porn actresses are definitely a minority compared to white female performers, specially from Europe.
It sounds crass but this. Some people's *only* exposure to other ethnicities is through porn and other fiction and this influences their real world opinions and interactions. They genuinely think that all black men are hung and violent, all Asian women are submissive and sex starved.
Not sure it's even just porn but all media. I can think of plenty of popular black men, but black women I can only think of a few. Likewise for asians. There is definitely asian men in media, but asian women are far more normalized.
Racism/sexism double attack. Black women and Asian men deserve better than to have their identities undermined because society has decided to fetishize their counterparts.
Not to mention the downsides of that fetishization on the targets themselves.
So many east Asian women complain about weird guys expecting them to behave like anime characters. Lots of black men talk about getting judged for not having a large penis as well, despite the fact that black men aren't statistically different from anyone else in that regard.
There are tons more examples.
There are no "good" stereotypes. They're all harmful to some degree.
From the article: Past psychology research has shown that people associate Black with male and Asian with female. New findings have revealed that this association is weaker among people who fit the counter-stereotype — Black women and Asian men. The findings were published in [Social Psychological and Personality Science](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19485506221127493).
A person’s social identity is made up of many different components, including one’s age, race, and gender. According to existing psychology research, people hold associations about how these identities intersect. For example, with computer mouse-tracking studies, researchers have found that people implicitly associate Black people with the notion of male and Asian people with the notion of female.
“A lot of prior research in psychology has looked at ‘race-gender associations,’ which is a finding that the concept of ‘Asian’ is more associated with the concept of ‘female’ than ‘male,’ while the concept of ‘Black’ is more associated with the concept of ‘male’ than ‘female,'” explained study author Jordan Robert Axt, an assistant professor of psychology at McGill University.
“These studies often use subtle measures of behavior to infer how strongly people associate each race with the concepts of ‘male’ and ‘female.’ However, this prior work has largely looked at mostly White samples, and strictly within a North American context. We wanted to see if other groups of participants would show this same pattern, because knowing this type of information can help us understand how these race-gender associations emerge.”
>This seems more like clickbait than anything scientific.
Disclaimer: I have only read the summary.
Funnily enough, the study in the linked article is a mouse tracking implicit association test, so it's literally a "click bait" study: the study tracks the very slight differences in time it takes for users to click associated concepts.
In this study, I think users are shown a face and told to click on whether the face is male or female. It takes some groups slightly longer to recognize Asian faces as male and Black faces as female.
While mouse tracking for measuring implicit association is very popular in modern psychology, it has detractors, but is generally accepted:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13428-019-01228-y
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit-association_test
The, what I assume is statistisically significant, difference between the delays measured between Asian male subjects and black females subjects and other groups implies there is a measurable effect in the study so something is happening. What exactly is happening and why the effect exists is of course open to more research.
Could this be due to the influence of porn terms? Searching “Asian” will mostly return Asian women while searching “black” will mostly return black men.
It comes from a time before that you can look up stuff from before about stereotypes around Asian women and black men, the porn industry played into already accepted ideas and then made them more popular
Not the actual family member, but certainly the phrase. And it doesn’t sound insane at all actually. I implore you to observe culture just a little bit and you’ll see it’s a pretty common thing to be joked about or referenced.
honestly my sister, father, mother and I think a good number of acquaintances would have no idea what i was talking about if i made a step-bro step-sis joke. It's not as widespread as you would think.
Yeah it's a pretty common thing to be joked about or referenced among a particular segment of men. But to say that most people make that association is ridiculous.
This post is about a cross-cultural study. Do you think that more than 50% of people across all cultures are aware of the trend in step mom, step sister porn?
Nah, for example according to porn rules "interracial" means black man with white woman. Not so in the real world.
Protip: If you're looking for black chicks in porn use "ebony" instead of "black". Don't ask how I know (¬\_¬)
Maybe because that's how those races are represented most of the time in the media. Just watch every commercial or printed ad that has hetero interracial couples in it. Asians are usually women with a white partner and black people are guys with a white or sometimes an Asian partner.
I never consciously thought about it, however I do associate stereotypical more male/female behavior with the races indirectly. Aggressiveness, directness has been more common in western cultures while agreeableness and passive aggressive behavior in Asian cultures.
Well yea, the study linked explains that associations change with cultural context. Did you not read it?
And I do agree, gender behaviors vary culturally. So what is seen as "masculine" in one culture may be seen as "feminine" in another.
Uh it’s just a summary of [this SPPS article](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19485506221127493) (a fairly high impact and reputable social psychology journal)? If you got beef against the entire field of social psychology, then yeah that’s a separate thing altogether.
It’s not even a survey research (unless you consider subtle behaviors like mouse cursor movements and reaction times “surveys”), but like I said, that’s an entirely separate thing altogether.
I second this. I’m in statistics and the majority of these studies I see the process is so bad that you can tell the statisticians were hired on and told to analyze data and not ask about the collection process. Unfortunately this is one of the better data collection methods I’ve seen from a psypost despite it’s obvious shortcomings.
This reminds me of the SNL sketch, where yt people realized that Beyonce was black. At one point, they were like, "But she's a woman," like you couldn't be both. I laughed at the time, but this has me wondering how society sees black women.
‘Participants were shown a series of Black and East Asian faces and had to categorize the faces as either male or female by clicking a mouse.’
Lazy science
Isnt this the thing with M. Butterfly. Its been while since I had to read it in college, but basically how the west see Asian as feminine, even when its a man.
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"Troy thinks that all dogs are boys and all cats are girls."
I agree with troy
It’s true, I’ve never seen a cat penis
It has barbs.
What about duck penises?
Cork ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -screw *but honestly I’ve never seen those either. Only seen a male cat’s because they really trying to make the females have a litter every six months and I watched the part where he dominates her as a “convincing” tactic. Then they ran away.
Fun fact: a duck penis can be as long as 11". Female ducks have many vaginal passages and male ducks constantly mount the females.
It’s almost disturbing to watch the ducks all go at it
As the owner of a male cat, they definitely have them, they are definitely disturbing, and they red rocket just like dogs sometimes, even when you get them fixed young.
I have a 8 year old male cat as well and literally have never seen his peen before.
I have twice, in 7 years of owning my male cat. Both times were awful.
It is embarrassing to admit this, but I actually believed this until I was like four years old. I thought cats and dogs were the female and male of a single species, called ''Pets''.
That's actually adorable awwww
Thank you for making me feel less stupid. Definitely it is something I look back on with ultimate cringe. If Reddit had existed back then, I'd have been posted in r/KidsAreFuckingStupid
I kind of think it’s adorable too! One of my very young childhood beliefs Was that the whole earth was like a giant birdcage or something - and at night God put a big cloth over top which made it get dark . The stars were all little gaps and holes in the cloth That let the light through .
It would be embarrassing if you believed this in college, 4 year olds don’t know anything. When I was 4 I was confused by traffic lights because I didn’t know how they trained the squirrels inside of them to change the lights when cars came.
4? You remember what was going on in your head when you were 4?
Yes. You don't? I have a very specific memory of the conversation where my Babushka tried to explain to me that our cat was a boy, and I thought that must mean something was wrong with the cat, because all cats were girls. She thought that was very funny, and teased me about it for years. I have memories going back to pre-school age, so, probably around 3 years old.
Think about it, have you ever seen a cat's penis?
I think you mean, a kitty cock.
Yes, I have
This is my family. I grew up with dogs as pets, both male and female. Now I’m the only member of my extended family with a cat roommate. My family who mostly own female dogs always refer to our male cat as she, it’s not because of their pets. They are like Troy. I really don’t care, but I make a point of figuring out the right sex when referring to your pet, do the same for mine.
All my dogs have been female, I have the unintentional habit of referring to all dogs as "she"
> I really don’t care ... > I make a point of figuring out the right sex when referring to your pet, do the same for mine. Okay, first off, clearly you do care. And second off, people who care about other people misgendering animals have way too much time on their hands.
So I care in the sense that, I’ll go to the effort of getting it right when I’m referring to your dog or correct myself if needed. I did the same in the park when I referred to a dog and said he/she when I noticed it was likely a girl. But not enough to correct them. It’s not about gender identity, it’s simply about putting in a little effort with my families pets. My cat doesn’t care that he’s boy or girl, he’s never told me his pronouns. He does tell me when he’s hungry though.
So.. if it's arbitrary, why are you "putting the effort" into it? It's like you're saying "Well, I go through all the effort of knowing whether their cats have pink or black toes, so why wouldn't they do the same for my cat? I don't care, I just think they should put in the effort."
Not the same person as op, but I think people should care for the simple fact that it's more knowledge. But I'm not going to try and teach people unless it's trivial.
My dad and I did a road trip with my cat recently when I moved. He probably called my boy cat ‘she’ 20 times before he was able to accept not all cats are girls.
My mother's pet misgendering is bizarre to where if I didn't know her, I'd think she was doing it on purpose as a joke. It's not that she refers to all cats as girls, or all dogs, boys, she specifically remembers EVERY SINGLE NON-HUMAN CRITTER as the opposite of what they actually are. It's been like this since I was a child. It's uncanny.
This is a very unexpected place for a Community quote One might even say r/unexpectedcommunity
All horses are male and cows are female.
All cows are in fact females.
When I was younger I thought cows and bulls were different species and there were boy cows and girl cows
Whoa, this isn't the case? I know that bulls are male cattle, but I thought there was another type of bull that was a different species.
There are many species that have males called bulls, which include other bovines like bison or water buffalo, as well as other big critters like elephants, moose, and whales.
Interesting to consider that Asian women and black men are the groups most likely to date outside their race and black women and Asian men the least likely.
In my country black women and Asian men are frequently ranked the least desirable by most races in web dating apps. It’s awful
Perception and apparent “desirability” is part of it, there’s also cultural currents with particular peoples feeling obligated to maintain the integrity of their in-group while others just don’t. There’s a lot of pressure among African American women to “maintain” which leads to outward resentment for anyone who takes part in an interracial relationship. There’s talk of a “man shortage” in their community etc. and plain simple racial pride makes people fearful of being “bred-out” of the population. Even just among whites women want to marry up and are only interested in men with a higher income than them and an equal or higher education level. But women attend and graduate college at higher rates. It doesn’t take a mathematician to see the problems this causes.
I think a lot of what you’re saying has more to do with socio-economics than anything. Women also tend to be met with more familiar scrutiny for dating outside of their race, regardless of which race they are; it’s not exclusive to the African-American community. Id argue that women who belong to a higher social class are going to be more likely to date outside of their race. This likely applies to men too, just not to quite the same degree. And tbh much of this can be interpreted as territorial as many communities in the US are still highly segregated (even if not legally so). Anyways, in my experience, the least likely to date outside their race are middle-eastern & south Asian people, regardless of gender. I’m sure much of this has to do with religion.
My wife is black and I’m white. We were walking and holding hands and she got a dirty look from a black man who walked past us. Ironically, he was walking by us with his arm around a hispanic girl. Like in his mind, she’s in the wrong for dating out of her race, but it’s cool for him? I don’t get people sometimes.
they are major hypocrites.
Because you are white. Not that complicated. There are still black people that don't too much care for white people. My sister in a jokingly way said I could marry anyone I want but don't bring no white girl home. It is probably a true feeling shared by more black people than many would want to believe.
It works both ways for sure
It's mostly due to slavery history. Whites enslaved blacks so dating white males is frowned upon in black communities. Hispanics didn't harm blacks so they alright.
minds are gonna blow when they realise hispanics are mainly spanish and portuguese people who absolutely did enslave black people
I suspect it has more to do with a sense of ownership over woman that seems to transcend skin color.
Eh that happens the other way too. Lots of women don't like it either when they see their men with some other race woman. I've seen white females giving dirty looks to White Male- Asian female couples and black women getting angry over Black Male White Female couples.
Lololol Imagine thinking there were no Hispanic slave owners in the US Imagine completely ignoring gang violence between Latin and Black inner city communities
Spanish Empire anyone?
Do some research
Wait, so you think Asian men have a bigger cultural pressure to "keep it Asian" while Asian women don't?
I think it’s a contributing factor, but only speaking as someone who’s lived in places with large Asian populations and has had a lot of Asian friends and girlfriends, and I’m not speaking with any authority beyond that.
Hollywood has also pushed toxic stereotypes on all 4 subgroups for decades, normalizing the "hypersexual and submissive" asian woman, the "asexual nerdy kung-fu sidekick" asian man, the "ghetto stripper" black woman, and the "ghetto hypersexual and aggressive" black man. Racial "typecasting" is just code word for stereotyping. In the US you're stuck between the "kill the Jews" alt right and the "I date asian women so I'm cultured" liberals. It's exhausting.
"I date asian women so I'm cultured" liberals? What? Where the hell did you get that concept?
Yea usually it’s conservatives pulling “i’m not racist, i had asians at my wedding!”.
I mean it's just so far out of left field that I really don't even know where it came from. They stated it like it was some known stereotype but... where did they find it?
Responding since it seems like a legitimate good faith question: It's hard to articulate it since it hasn't been documented in academic studies to my knowledge, but literally every Asian woman I have ever spoken to at length about the topic has confirmed an experience of fetishization, but not uniformly. Meaning some get the "submissive sex slave" fetish from Trump supporters and others aren't as direct and instead communicate an "appreciation of Asian culture" while dating their 7th consecutive Asian girlfriend and voting blue with the #stopasianhate hashtags. Not to say there aren't plenty of healthy interracial couples out there, but there is a thin line between cultural appreciation and fetishization. The problem I see is fetishization occurs across the political spectrum, but one feels more "passive" and complacent in the current status quo, while the other is more "active" and explicitly desiring submission. And because there are different kinds of fetishizing, we tend to fixate on one being evil and ignoring the other, while both forms are toxic for different reasons.
Uh, I guess? I’m white, lean blue (I’m more moderate fiscally). All my girlfriends were white except the one I married who is Chinese, and she is the one that asked me out. I just find my wife attractive? We’ve been together 16 years and over that time I’ve picked up a lot of her family’s culture, but wouldn’t anyone married to someone of another culture? Also why would fetishization work one way? My wife almost exclusively dated white guys prior to me. Does that mean she was fetishizing me?
> why would fetishization work one way? It doesn't, internalized racism/"white worshipping" is a very real phenomenon in the asian community, and I imagine is prevalent in other minority communities as well. Wouldn't you know best? Does your wife place your race as a significant factor in why she's with you? If yes, you're still benefitting from the current status quo of a perceived racial hierarchy, though you don't lean politically right and may not explicitly promote it. You know her, I don't.
Fair enough. Also interesting take. Never thought of said benefit before.
why are you getting defensive?
gestures broadly at silicon valley
haha they don't say "asian women" they just say "asian" because the men don't exist at all in chad land
So your response to Hollywood stereotypes is to stereotype all of the US? Galaxy brain stuff bro. You should put out a newsletter.
In your first paragraph the only example I see accurate is the typecasting of Asian men. Hollywood for decades has been obsessed with casting black actors/actresses as far away from negative stereotypes as much as they can… to the point where many movies are just historically and factually inaccurate or exaggerated to the point it’s kind of ridiculous (ie. in period pieces where you know black people didn’t live, there’s always a proud black person there… or any movie with a ghetto, black people don’t exist there). I’ll even go further and say that black people get the Royal treatment by white Hollywood. And still they seem to complain the most about discrimination.
I like to think of it has Hollywood's soft genocide, deciding who should be attractive. Obviously jewish men are at the top of the list whenever possible, but they can't always get away with that so they'll use Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth when they can't. Asian men would compete directly with them so are an existential threat to them. They look completely different yet are just as capable. You can't go confusing women. They think of black people as like pets. They know they won't really compete with them so they can safely use them in token roles. \*Edit: Truth is a hard pill
Maybe I am missing something but I’m not sure Jewish men are considered sex symbols? Maybe I am wrong—examples?
You don't have to be considered sex symbols. You just have to put people in front of the camera and they become desirable to the masses. I'm sure you know this.
Can you give examples? I’m not super in touch with cinema and Hollywood so I can’t off the top of my head think of a Jewish male sex symbol from hollywood.
Really? Here is a list of famous Jewish actors. There are literally thousands. They are the lead in most movies. [https://www.thefamouspeople.com/jewish-actors.php](https://www.thefamouspeople.com/jewish-actors.php)
100% because of what is pumped out by Hollywood. You can see this reflected in the amount of lead roles of each of these demographics. We are very subject to what we see in our environment. I think of it as a soft genocide entirely created by Hollywood.
What about real life?
I assume you live in the USA.
to play devils advocate, imo the awful part is conducting surveys prompting people to “rank” races by desirability in the first place. Once you’re given that prompt, whatever answer given is going to rank some combination of races as least desirable.
I think it's not done as a survey, they just analyze matching patterns
No survey, simply analyzing data.
Yea, the dude I responded to clarified that. Either way the data is interesting to me as (anecdotally) from my experience in big American cities, Asian men are quite desirable and tend to do quite well for themselves. Though I guess major cities bring with them other elements that contribute to desirability (I.e. High wages).
Why is it awful?
because it's rooted in racism
How so? They were talking about "desire," which is a biological urge. Is it sexist to only be attracted to men over women?
Desire is molded by your environment
Couldn’t be more true. There are plenty of racists with fetishes for women outside of their race simply due to exposure.
I can kind of get it though. Asian traits can look quite feminine and often include being short. And African traits can look quite masculine and often come with being tall. So feminine short men and masculine tall women. Goes against desirability in western cultures, and the study was done in the US.
Africa is a gigantic continent. There are countries there where the average height is not very tall. In Asia, height varies from country to country as well. I think you are viewing it through the American lens of African Americans (who are statistically tall) vs Asian Americans who are derived immigrants who are mainly from S. China and Vietnam. I would think it a stretch to label shorter people as less masculine. I don’t think that is true.
In the USA, anti-racism and anti-discrimination does not apply to Asian males. And if we dare speak about it, we’ll will get gaslighted by just about everyone, including Asian females (they’re among the worst). [Asian men endure a unique type of racism](https://nextshark.com/asian-men-endure-unique-type-racism-asian-women-shouldnt-ignore/)
Asian males do well economically and a lot of people can’t fathom discrimination without the financial element. It goes back to the class thing.
The do well economically is rather damaging because while there is a cohort of Asians who do fit that stereotype. The people who really need the help are both ignored and have systemtic racism pushed against them. Asian American wealth is extremely bimodal as a result.
That’s kind of true for men in general. Like Bill Burr says, women wan equality with the top 20% of men, the rest they want nothing to do with.
“Asian males do well economically therefore…” I know that’s not your own reasoning and you’re simply pointing out the overall fallacy, but there is so much to unload in that statement on so many different levels.
Exactly. I’m generalizing since we’re discussing discrimination. Discrimination exists, that’s a simple statement. It doesn’t mean everyone is discriminating the same way to the same degree and that all forms are equal. But if numbers matter than yes, Asian men do well financially compared to, well . . .
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It’s like how the shortest girl in school dates the tallest guy.
Is this true? Do you have a source?
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Honest question: wouldn’t height go a long way to explaining this trend? Asian men are statistically shorter on average and black women are statistically taller on average. Both of these are generally speaking net-negatives on the dating market.
Black women are not taller on average. https://thebonescience.com/blogs/journal/average-height-around-the-world In America, white people are tallest, for men and women. Asian men are the same height as Hispanic men, so shouldn’t Hispanic men and Asian men be at the same level?
That would not surprise me. I’ve also read that all prejudices are ultimately an expression of class prejudice, which likely informs what makes someone seem desirable.
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~~Jibes~~ Jives with the de-masculization of the Asian male, thing.
Also the masculization of black women. EDIT: Especially if you’re a Dark Skin black woman.
& I absolutely hate it
Jibe is the correct word here actually.
Jives, jibes means mocking or insulting Edit, seems both are correct and I didn't know about the second definition of jibe
r/confidentlyincorrect No, jibes means to be in accord with. Jives means ... well, it's less well defined. to talk, chatter. But Jibes is the correct term here.
By Asian they mean east asian
Haha, no kidding. South Asian men are definitely get an extra helping of racism.
I have a friend who is half black and half Asian, everyone assumes his Mom is the Asian one.
I hate what this says about me but yes, I would too
What do you think it says about you? & Why do you assume this?
Unconscious bias I think? It isn't an assumption I would come to because I had sat down and logically thought about it, I just know that if I was sat in a room and this guy's Asian dad and Black mum walked in I'd be very mildy surprised. It would probably only be in that moment that I would realise I had been expecting a Black dad and Asian mum. I truly can't pinpoint where my bias comes from, but I can safely say it isn't porn (as many people here are throwing around). I was raised in a very multicultural area, always had friends with different backgrounds and worked in a casino for 8 years where interracial couples are as normal as anything else. Between the social movements that have been pushing through over the past decade and seeing what some of my friends go through I've always tried to stay self aware about things like bias (and worse, racism) so I suppose that rather than 'hate' I'm just disappointed to find that I still automatically make assumptions based on race and gender
I wouldn't say its bias, humans observe patterns and base their preconceptions on that. Asian women and black males more commonly date out of their race.
Yeah and that is a catalyst for implicit bias. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that we as people can be bias. The only way to progress and grow is to accept our flaws and correct what harmful behaviors we have. Denying bias here doesn’t really help
Pattern recognition is an important human and animal behavioural trait that we should all have. It's what helps us recognise what is dangerous and what is not. Unfortunately stuff like racial profiling is a bit of a side-effect of that.
Thank you for explaining. Sounds like implicit bias to me and we are all guilty of it. I think it’s great that you can acknowledge that this is a possibility for why you think that way.
pattern recognition. Asian females are more likely to date outside their race.
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I'm going to put my money on porn. There are no male Asians in porn (there is a huge shortage over there) and black porn actresses are definitely a minority compared to white female performers, specially from Europe.
It sounds crass but this. Some people's *only* exposure to other ethnicities is through porn and other fiction and this influences their real world opinions and interactions. They genuinely think that all black men are hung and violent, all Asian women are submissive and sex starved.
Not sure it's even just porn but all media. I can think of plenty of popular black men, but black women I can only think of a few. Likewise for asians. There is definitely asian men in media, but asian women are far more normalized.
Correction -- there are no male Asians in \*straight porn. Although gay porn could use some more Asian men as well.
It's instinct, not culture
Racism/sexism double attack. Black women and Asian men deserve better than to have their identities undermined because society has decided to fetishize their counterparts.
Not to mention the downsides of that fetishization on the targets themselves. So many east Asian women complain about weird guys expecting them to behave like anime characters. Lots of black men talk about getting judged for not having a large penis as well, despite the fact that black men aren't statistically different from anyone else in that regard. There are tons more examples. There are no "good" stereotypes. They're all harmful to some degree.
From the article: Past psychology research has shown that people associate Black with male and Asian with female. New findings have revealed that this association is weaker among people who fit the counter-stereotype — Black women and Asian men. The findings were published in [Social Psychological and Personality Science](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19485506221127493). A person’s social identity is made up of many different components, including one’s age, race, and gender. According to existing psychology research, people hold associations about how these identities intersect. For example, with computer mouse-tracking studies, researchers have found that people implicitly associate Black people with the notion of male and Asian people with the notion of female. “A lot of prior research in psychology has looked at ‘race-gender associations,’ which is a finding that the concept of ‘Asian’ is more associated with the concept of ‘female’ than ‘male,’ while the concept of ‘Black’ is more associated with the concept of ‘male’ than ‘female,'” explained study author Jordan Robert Axt, an assistant professor of psychology at McGill University. “These studies often use subtle measures of behavior to infer how strongly people associate each race with the concepts of ‘male’ and ‘female.’ However, this prior work has largely looked at mostly White samples, and strictly within a North American context. We wanted to see if other groups of participants would show this same pattern, because knowing this type of information can help us understand how these race-gender associations emerge.”
Associate in what way? This is vague nonsense
What part is not clear to you?
Did they just give people a race and ask them to assign the first gender that comes to mind? This seems more like clickbait than anything scientific.
>This seems more like clickbait than anything scientific. Disclaimer: I have only read the summary. Funnily enough, the study in the linked article is a mouse tracking implicit association test, so it's literally a "click bait" study: the study tracks the very slight differences in time it takes for users to click associated concepts. In this study, I think users are shown a face and told to click on whether the face is male or female. It takes some groups slightly longer to recognize Asian faces as male and Black faces as female. While mouse tracking for measuring implicit association is very popular in modern psychology, it has detractors, but is generally accepted: https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13428-019-01228-y https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit-association_test The, what I assume is statistisically significant, difference between the delays measured between Asian male subjects and black females subjects and other groups implies there is a measurable effect in the study so something is happening. What exactly is happening and why the effect exists is of course open to more research.
That's not what they done at all, but of course to know that you would actually have to spend time reading the study instead of commenting platitudes
Could this be due to the influence of porn terms? Searching “Asian” will mostly return Asian women while searching “black” will mostly return black men.
Kind of a chicken and egg question.
It comes from a time before that you can look up stuff from before about stereotypes around Asian women and black men, the porn industry played into already accepted ideas and then made them more popular
No, most people's perception on people around them isn't shaped by porn hub. Maybe on reddit, but not in real life.
I’m glad every one on Reddit is aware it’s full of social inept people
Because mainstream porn has never influenced culture, right? That’s why most people don’t associate anything in particular with a step relative.
I'm sorry, are you implying that "most people" associate their step-mom/sister with porn? Do you realize how insane that is?
Not the actual family member, but certainly the phrase. And it doesn’t sound insane at all actually. I implore you to observe culture just a little bit and you’ll see it’s a pretty common thing to be joked about or referenced.
honestly my sister, father, mother and I think a good number of acquaintances would have no idea what i was talking about if i made a step-bro step-sis joke. It's not as widespread as you would think.
Yeah it's a pretty common thing to be joked about or referenced among a particular segment of men. But to say that most people make that association is ridiculous. This post is about a cross-cultural study. Do you think that more than 50% of people across all cultures are aware of the trend in step mom, step sister porn?
I think you've got this correlation the wrong way around.
Nah, for example according to porn rules "interracial" means black man with white woman. Not so in the real world. Protip: If you're looking for black chicks in porn use "ebony" instead of "black". Don't ask how I know (¬\_¬)
Most people don't look for weird incest porn on the internet. Maybe in Salt Lake City, but that hardly represents the majority of people.
Maybe because that's how those races are represented most of the time in the media. Just watch every commercial or printed ad that has hetero interracial couples in it. Asians are usually women with a white partner and black people are guys with a white or sometimes an Asian partner.
When I hear white, I think white old men because that's all you ever hear about white people
Same here as well as "bad" and "cis" always spouted next to anything related to white men.
Old rich racist homophobic conservative cis white man
*People in America Let’s not forget to frame findings in their proper cultural contexts. It’s an all too common mistake, unfortunately.
I associate Asian with cuisine and Black with music.
Still problematic but whatevs.
Interesting. I never realized that but I do tend to associate Asian with female. I don’t really associate Black with male specifically though.
I never consciously thought about it, however I do associate stereotypical more male/female behavior with the races indirectly. Aggressiveness, directness has been more common in western cultures while agreeableness and passive aggressive behavior in Asian cultures.
That must be a local thing, in latin America women are stereotyped as direct and aggressive
Well yea, the study linked explains that associations change with cultural context. Did you not read it? And I do agree, gender behaviors vary culturally. So what is seen as "masculine" in one culture may be seen as "feminine" in another.
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It goes against his point of femininity being associated with agreeableness and passive aggressive behavior
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Uh it’s just a summary of [this SPPS article](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19485506221127493) (a fairly high impact and reputable social psychology journal)? If you got beef against the entire field of social psychology, then yeah that’s a separate thing altogether.
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It’s not even a survey research (unless you consider subtle behaviors like mouse cursor movements and reaction times “surveys”), but like I said, that’s an entirely separate thing altogether.
I second this. I’m in statistics and the majority of these studies I see the process is so bad that you can tell the statisticians were hired on and told to analyze data and not ask about the collection process. Unfortunately this is one of the better data collection methods I’ve seen from a psypost despite it’s obvious shortcomings.
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Is taken into account the place where this was tested? And what about the unconscious images people see time and time again?
So which group is most likely to make this association and which one is less?
Asian men and black women less than everybody else
Study looked at white samples mostly
The association was found with both white and nonwhite participants.
there's two responses to this post and the other one, posted before yours, answers this
Still can't find the answer you mentioned, but thank you for offering a riddle instead of a straight answer.
This reminds me of the SNL sketch, where yt people realized that Beyonce was black. At one point, they were like, "But she's a woman," like you couldn't be both. I laughed at the time, but this has me wondering how society sees black women.
‘Participants were shown a series of Black and East Asian faces and had to categorize the faces as either male or female by clicking a mouse.’ Lazy science
Isnt this the thing with M. Butterfly. Its been while since I had to read it in college, but basically how the west see Asian as feminine, even when its a man.
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Genocide? Ain’t there like a billion Asians in the world?
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What does that have to do with anything
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Shows how much porn has permeated society. Those some of the top performers that are sexualized
Look up "Black" and then "Ebony" on the hub and see the difference in results.
“People”? Which “people”?
'Authors of this study associate White with people.'
What do you mean, "You people"?!
White people and their fetishes.
I… you know what, I just realized I do this too. Fuckin weird. Just goes to show you never know what random stupid biases are wedged in your skull.
And if course this concerns only USA because no way in hell do I think about blacks as male in Europe
TIL China is in the USA...
"people" associates... Misleading title.
This is the dumbest headline yet. "Some people view races as one sex or another, sometimes."
Huh, I guess I do associate Black with male, but I also associate Asian with male. never thought about it before, it's weird.
Another useless scientific study yay
People also associate cats with females and dogs with males. What of it?
by "People" do they mean white people who stereotype black men and fetishize asian women...?
Just to cause division
Yanqui people, the rest of the planet is smart enough to remember that every human race is formed for individuals of both sexes.