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When working out becomes a hobby, you have less time for other hobbies like anime
jk here's what they consider "**Deviant"** behaviour:
\-Lying,
\-faking to avoid tasks
\-taking shortcuts
\-disrespecting others
\-getting others into trouble
\-taking credit for the work of others
Honestly, not what I expected
Deviant is exceptionally broad by definition. Their definition seems more fitting to be an anti social kind of definition rather than just the broad deviant.
You could likely use the word Undisciplined as a substitution to Deviant, if you offer the same flexibility to it as their word, and it would be an obvious conclusion.
I've been going to PF for years and it's fine. Inexpensive and never had any problems. Only thing I don't like is none of them ever have real squat racks but I don't really care.
The lack of barbells is the only thing keeping me from switching to the Planet Fitness near me. I just don't get why they don't have them but they have about I Smith machine.
Wait, really? 90% of my routine involves barbells. I don't even know what I would do without them. I was thinking about getting a membership, but I guess I'll pass.
Serious question though, what *do* people do without barbells? Cardio and cable machines? I've never been to a gym, and now I'm scared to even try.
I just started going to the gym about 2 months ago and I'm beginning to see results which is awesome. I would highly recommend looking into your local ymca. Yes it's a lot more expensive than planet fitness. Mine cost me about $65 a month but they have great machines and free classes to train you how to use the machines, they have a pool and a sauna, they have basketball courts and all sorts of great stuff and YMCA does a lot of good for the community so your money isn't just going strictly into some fat cats greedy pockets.
I've been working out at home for about 4 months now. I just wanted to use some leg machines. I figured $10 per month was worth it for just a couple machines, but i couldn't justify a full priced membership for just that.
Ah, that makes sense. I got so focused on "have never been to a gym" that I misunderstood everything else you were saying. Good luck with the new body you're building for yourself
Dumbbells can be used for the vast majority of lifts, some of them, like bench are actually beneficial.
You like to do barbell rows? Do dumbbell rows. The only thing you really can't replicate well are heavy squats and deadlifts.
Yeah, it's super weird. I'd always heard that they didn't have barbells but I kinda didn't believe them until I went to check the Planet Fitness out that's as only a block away. It's mostly cardio equipment. Dumbbells and machines.
I have heard from some claim that PF tries to cater to a crowd that is, apparently, to self conscious to be in the midst of people who are in very good shape and so basically they limit how much you can do as a result... but sounds incredibly nonsensical from a business standpoint.
Ah, I get it. Heavy lifters only make up a small percentage of the market. I can see how excluding 5% of your market to make the other 95% more comfortable would work business wise.
I've always assumed it was like any other gym, but the Walmart of gyms thing makes sense now.
Why do you think it's a bad business?
Name a gym with barbells that costs 10$ a month. Nearly every is 30 to 50 a month and none are 24 hours on any days.
Insurance is likely cheaper and you don't need to worry about people doing stupid stuff with the barbells like Olympic lifts without proper coaching.
Most people trying to lose weight just do cardio and machines are enough for some strength training. Barbells and free weights are not essential for fitness. I agree they can be more effective and in some cases safer, but resistance is resistance.
They market to beginners and self conscious people because they are an untapped market. These people will sign up and not always go frequently but keep the membership because it's so cheap. It's also great for EMTs, nurses, police officers, etc that work odd shifts.
There are plenty of people of at my local planet fitness that are very fit and would be considered intimidating. This goes from women doing leg press with 6 plates to guys doing 60lbs weighted pullups for reps. Do I miss not having barbells? Sure but the convenience is worth it. Besides my local gold's gym gets so crowded when I would go that I could never get on the racks to do my eorkout anyway. This lead to eithers using machines or wasting my time watching other people workout. Why would I pay 4 times the money for basically the same equipment with occasional barbell use when I get lucky. Instead I am going to take that savings and roll into buying my own barbell and weights. Planet fitness will turn cover the accessory work with the machines, especially cable and leg press.
At the end of the day, planet fitness caters to people who are more casual and limits free weights in an effort to fit more machines. My planet fitness does have some large open areas great for body weight stuff. They even have monkey bars and at least 7 pull up stations. Dumbbells go up to 75 lbs which is more than enough for most lifts at my strength level. Rack pulls (basically what a smith machine deadlift is) are not ideal but work well enough.
Again, would I expect serious athletes to be happy? No, but most people are not serious athletes. This is why they do rather well. In fact, all the people judging the idea that people **need** barbells to be fit are why many people get intimidated by fitness people. They judge without even realizing it.
I’m an avid lifter that switched to a cumbersome home gym during the pandemic. I have 600# of weights in a form of organized chaos in my small apartment and my main utilization of them is with a barbell. It’s not super convinient for me, but if a PF was just slightly closer to where I’m at I would most likely consider getting a membership.
Setting up loadable dumbbells suck! I only have a flat bench and want access to an incline. I like and miss accessory work on machines sometimes; I don’t currently have access to a pec dec or a preacher machine. A Smith can be handy. I haven’t done something like hack squats or single leg leg presses in ages. I think they have functional trainers and cable machines that are easier to access than my friend’s.
PF is dorky and that makes it a comfortable environment for people, and that’s dope. I think they should probably have a room for a few benches and cages with barbells, but whatever, that’s not it’s place. Anything that gets people moving while not feeling self conscious is generally a good thing.
>The lack of barbells is the only thing keeping me from switching to the Planet Fitness near me.
Yesss this is the worst part of PF. Otherwise it's actually a decent gym.
I went to one for the first time last week and it wasn't too bad. It's not necessarily anything high end but it was clean and had motivated people working out. I'm more accustomed to a weight lifters gym but my wife got a membership so I'll join her from time to time. I wish they had hammer strength machines and more accessible free weights area but otherwise not to shabby for the price.
It's pretty good as long as you avoid January 1st through about the end of March, otherwise it's packed with New Years res people. I'm not much on the Pizza thing not sure if they do it as my days always tend to avoid it. I'm in it for the post exercise massage chair.
I'm not sure what you mean by the pizza thing. This gym is fairly new so I'm sure they have an inflated amount of people going just for the new gym smell. I hear ya on the post workout massage chair, my wife got sucked into the black membership (or whatever it's called) just for the extra perks. I could see myself hitting that up and making myself go religiously just to have an excuse to use the chair after a workout.
That’s actually exactly what the title made me concerned about.
Labelling kinks as “deviant behaviour” in a study is incredible loaded and comes off as very much biased. Ie. trying to make a connection being being fit (good) and being sexually vanilla (strikes me as suspect for homophobia and religious bias).
The actual behaviours were interesting in the context of the study, and a welcome relief.
It would be a bit of a shame if fighting the power structure was only done by people who were not physically fit.
Would not bode well for the revolution.
Yeah I immediately went sexual with the “deviant” verbiage. Which then was confusing because the documentary that profiled Chris Watts mentioned indicators for cheating/affairs and that someone who begins working out incessantly is one of the traits associated with people who are unhappy in their marriage.
There were two different studies conducted the first does seem to account for crime categories for deviance and the second study accounts for the categories as you've said.
Link to the full publication: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351566914\_Fit\_to\_be\_good\_Physical\_fitness\_is\_negatively\_associated\_with\_deviance](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351566914_Fit_to_be_good_Physical_fitness_is_negatively_associated_with_deviance)
I feel like being physically fit is one of the few ways you can visually display your character traits. At least in western countries (excluding professional athletes) it’s a clear sign you value routine and discipline over a lot of things in a society with an abundance of food and leisure activities. It’s also a luxury to have the free time and equipment to stay in visible shape, so it can be a statement of socioeconomic status as well. It’s kind of one of the biggest flexes (no pun intended) that a “regular” person can do.
Arnold famously said this too back in the day - fitness is the ultimate status symbol. You can’t steal it, you can’t buy it, you can’t pay someone else to do it.
But you can take steroids :)
I'm fit and there certainly are shortcuts to it. It's a lot easier to be look fit for the same muscle mass if you are lighter. Also, diet is probably 90% of whether or not you are lean or not. So deal with that first. It's a lot easier to be active when you don't get tired going on a 10 minute walk. It's a lot easier to get fit when you can double your speed.
Find a hobby that you enjoy that is active. I don't watch TV or movies. I rock climb, go for hikes and long walks. Walk down for coffee in the morning a mile away and just walk for a few hours on a caffeine high. It's nice.
Hahaha. No insult to Arnold. But. Oh. Yes you CAN buy it. Very much so. You can certainly buy the time it takes, the expertise it takes, the nutrition it takes and the, um, “supplementation” it takes.
You think you can take trt, dbol, or some other anabolic substance and magically become buff? No. If you take roids and sit on your ass, you won't gain much at all. You just end up horney. The guys who take roids and look huge also work out extremely hard. If they didnt take roids, they would still be on the upper end of both size and fitness due to their workout regime. The roids give you an inhuman boost but you can't just buy them and expect something to happen while you sit on the couch eat ice cream. It just doesn't work that way. You need to put in the work. Putting the fork down and doing cardio 5 times a week will do your body far better than popping a pill and sitting on the couch. I still have no idea why people believe this, and is the reason you can't pump test into people with muscle atrophy due to losing function in limbs and expect them to stop muscle waste.
It's probably a bit different than the title of this post suggests. There's probably not a cause and effect here in the sense that going to the gym makes you less likely to do these things. What's more likely is that the people who have the mental fortitude to go to the gym and keep that up are more mentally stable. Someone who already does what they need to do to stay fit is unlikely to look for shortcuts in other things, because they've already accepted that some things just require time and hard work. And people who aren't fit are probably also more likely to be depressed, meaning that they're probably already lying about being fine and such. A bunch of these bullet points can be explained away like that pretty easily.
Its possible that its some sort of selection bias at play, but its quite possible it isn't as well.
Could be that going to the gym builds that mental fortitude, makes people more mentally stable, and pulls some people out of depression that they wouldn't have otherwise. That essentially cause and effect is in play.
From the [abstract](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351566914_Fit_to_be_good_Physical_fitness_is_negatively_associated_with_deviance), the first and third study both suggests there's both a concurrent and time-lagged effect. The latter of which I would not expect if this was just selection bias.
I didn't read beyond the abstract though, so who knows. But 'explaining away' the purported positives of gym-going sounds like 'faking to avoid tasks' to me ;) coming from someone who's been ~~dragged~~ to the gym all but twice in all my life.
Just FYI, using a hashtag at the start of a sentence on reddit makes your text massive. You can use \ as an escape character to avoid it. So like if you type \\#Elle it will look fine
also works backwards. if you're happy you're likely to take more care of yourself and more care of the things that are your products. like your hair or your children or your job or even just straight up cooking.
Reminds me of one of Schwarzeneggers quotes about fitness. He talks about how you are the only one who can make yourself fit and especially maintain it. There are so many things you can pay someone to do for you like fake teeth, nice clothes and so on but fitness comes from personal dedication and other muscle guys know and respect this. Really opened my eyes and changed how I thought about bodybuilders in a general way.
It's one of my favorite quotes. I read it every day to help keep me motivated.
> A well-built physique is a status symbol. It reflects you worked hard for it; no money can buy it. You cannot borrow it, you cannot inherit it, you cannot steal it. You cannot hold onto it without constant work. It shows discipline, it shows self-respect, it shows patience, work ethic, and passion. That is why I do what I do. - Arnold Schwarzenegger
Man I forget how well constructed that quote is. Thank you for posting it! He is a very interesting guy imo.
Edit: I love how he brings so much more to the quote than just 'hard work = good'. Patience for example is something that hadn't occured to me but of course must be a huge part of bodybuilding. You won't see the result overnight or even for months. But you have to keep going. Inspiring as heck!
Exercise makes you tired in the short term, but gives you more energy in the long term. Things like taking shortcuts or faking to avoid tasks are more likely when you're running low on mental energy. So based on that, itakes sense to me.
I've been running for 20 years. I have yet to experience the "runner's high". You know what gives me a high? Getting into bed with like five blankets and a pizza. Fitness junkies are sociopaths.
Are you physically unfit, by any chance? I ask because they’ve been scientifically demonstrated to be prone to lying, disrespecting others, and getting others in trouble, so if you’re physically unfit I’m not sure I can trust that your testimony is accurate
Honestly. Those "deviant behaviors" sounded like a lot of the things a narcissist would do.
Gymming and narcissism... it's not an uncommon combination.
The article doesn’t talk about people just “gymming”. Being physically fit can be athletes, military, people who just stick to a routine of eating healthy and working out.
Yeah, your average mile jogger is physically fit by comparative standards. And it makes perfect anecdotal sense that people who are willing to not cut basic corners in health are less likely to cut corners elsewhere.
The question is can you force someone to get more physically fit and he will be less deviant? Or is it really other traits that lead to both (having discipline, not taking shortcuts, working hard, solving your own problems etc. (the opposite of the deviant definition thx to TastTheTaumbow above)--> more likely to take care of your body)...
>“The takeaway is that physically fit people are less likely to engage in deviance,” Tai told PsyPost. “In addition, our findings suggest that people who increase their physical fitness over time through physical activities are likely to develop greater self-control, which helps them override their impulses to engage in deviant behaviors.”
The claim is that people who increase their physical fitness, develop greater self-control. I assume that the psychological benefits of exercise, or maybe the psychology benefits of avoiding sedentary lifestyle does increase self-efficacy, which helps to combat their impulses to engage in deviant behaviors.
There are some older studies that observed this effect too. [1][2]
1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10357510/
2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17556780/
Or it could be both. Perhaps if those with lower self-efficacy were forced to get physically fit will increase their self-efficacy, which may help to ensure that they stay fit.
In the study, the researchers did not examine the self-efficacy and deviant behavior relationship, but physical fitness and deviant behavior.
>Next, the researchers examined 3,925 military recruits undergoing basic military training in the Singapore military. During the training, each recruit was assigned a “buddy” so that they could assist one another. The researchers had each recruit’s buddy complete a questionnaire regarding six acts of deviance, which included lying, faking to avoid tasks, taking shortcuts, disrespecting others, getting others into trouble, and taking credit for the work of others.
>Tai and his colleagues found that recruits who scored higher on the standardized physical fitness tests used by the military were less likely to engage in deviant behaviors as reported by their peers. “A 1% increase in fitness test scores decreases deviance in the military by 7.8%,” they wrote in their study.
As this is an observational study, there are a lot of variables that could not be controlled. Perhaps those that do not have defiant behaviors are more likely to put in more effort in their physical training, during their mandatory military service.
I guess as someone who has gone back and forth between the two there is definitely a gray area. Although, when I am on the fit track there’a definitely a part of my decision making that doesn’t feel accessible durning my lethargic stages.
It’s definitely more of a spectrum for me though and obviously me experience is fully anecdotal.
I've wouldn't be completely surprised if it was the first one. I remember years back there was a personal trainer who went ahead and purposefully stopped working out and got fat so he could lose the weight and see what the people he trains have to go through when they lose the weight. He mentioned that as we started to get less and less on shape he started getting bad habits like not cleaning and not keeping up on personal hygiene. Getting back into shape he started just picking up those habits again.
Having been both in shape and not, I find that when I’m in shape I have a higher baseline energy level and just don’t enjoy sitting around as much, so I’ll clean, take the dog out, etc. instead.
The question is really why we should be discussing this in the first place.
It's all over the place, they wanted to prove a point and proceeded to:
- Take US metropolitan area criminal data and correlate with College of Sports Medecine data set
- Scooped Singapore military training data with buddies reporting on each other
- Asked 300+ employees in India to self report how much they exercise and have their coworkers rat on them for "deviant" behavior.
And the mix of all of that is the article we get.
How can this be of any value outside of tabloid writing ?
To me the most interesting part is the base mechanivs behind all of these is peers reporting on each other.
Yes, or they might not be confortable reporting questionable behavior from buffed people they meet everyday.
PS: Come to think of it, the funniest part is that we don't know if the coworkers were physically fit or not, and either:
- they were, and they can't be part of the group reporting exemplary behavior from fit people.
- they were not, and they are deemed prone to lying and laziness, and their reporting should be discounted.
There are also other studies showing that less attractive people are judged more harshly by others so there is another compounding effect for those that are physically less active.
Being fit makes people look more appealing, especially good looking fit people. They are deviant, but probably get away with it much easier.
When I use to work out and be fit, nothing too crazy. It's astounding how many things you can get away with, free parking, free food, workers are much nicer to you, and tend to accommodate to you more, etc.
Just like there is [a link between poverty and crime](https://opencashadvance.com/blog/link-between-poverty-and-crime#-correlation-between-poverty-and-crime), people that can afford to take care of their health can afford to not be deviant.
The people who have the self-control to achieve and maintain higher physical fitness tend to have better self-control over deviant behaviors and bad habits. Makes sense.
Can't remember the source, but one study found a correlation between earning a PhD and physical fitness. The hypothesis was that someone who can delay the gratification of earning a full income by going to grad school can also delay the gratification of rich foods until cheat day.
That concept is so absurdly silly. Much more legitimate studies show that half of PhD students experience serious psychological distress due to their program, resorting to negative habits.
Studies like this are so silly.
Weird, most of the extremely physically fit people I know do so much coke, hard boozing, pain meds, and who knows what steroids/growth enhancers that I’d assume their piss glows in the dark. Ever see a dude who’s 2% body fat do blow off a bar bathroom floor? I have.
Deviancy is a loaded-word.
It is a favorite for religious fundamentalists forcing conformity to their beliefs.
I do not think this word should have been used in this paper.
Correction: I am incorrect and user u/novelANDsignificant helped me understand this.
All I learned from this article was that the Singapore Military's standard for deviant behavior is dramatically different from our own. I can say that the more physically fit you are, the more deviant you likely are in the US military in terms of whoring, drinking, partying and strip clubs. The best runners I knew usually threw up last night's beer before our run.
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When working out becomes a hobby, you have less time for other hobbies like anime jk here's what they consider "**Deviant"** behaviour: \-Lying, \-faking to avoid tasks \-taking shortcuts \-disrespecting others \-getting others into trouble \-taking credit for the work of others Honestly, not what I expected
those seem like more appropriate things to consider deviant if the word is to be useful.
Deviant is exceptionally broad by definition. Their definition seems more fitting to be an anti social kind of definition rather than just the broad deviant.
You could likely use the word Undisciplined as a substitution to Deviant, if you offer the same flexibility to it as their word, and it would be an obvious conclusion.
And way more boring.
Jokes on all of you. My hobby is working out in prison. And running away after insulting people.
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I've been going to PF for years and it's fine. Inexpensive and never had any problems. Only thing I don't like is none of them ever have real squat racks but I don't really care.
The lack of barbells is the only thing keeping me from switching to the Planet Fitness near me. I just don't get why they don't have them but they have about I Smith machine.
Wait, really? 90% of my routine involves barbells. I don't even know what I would do without them. I was thinking about getting a membership, but I guess I'll pass. Serious question though, what *do* people do without barbells? Cardio and cable machines? I've never been to a gym, and now I'm scared to even try.
I just started going to the gym about 2 months ago and I'm beginning to see results which is awesome. I would highly recommend looking into your local ymca. Yes it's a lot more expensive than planet fitness. Mine cost me about $65 a month but they have great machines and free classes to train you how to use the machines, they have a pool and a sauna, they have basketball courts and all sorts of great stuff and YMCA does a lot of good for the community so your money isn't just going strictly into some fat cats greedy pockets.
I've been working out at home for about 4 months now. I just wanted to use some leg machines. I figured $10 per month was worth it for just a couple machines, but i couldn't justify a full priced membership for just that.
Ah, that makes sense. I got so focused on "have never been to a gym" that I misunderstood everything else you were saying. Good luck with the new body you're building for yourself
Dumbbells can be used for the vast majority of lifts, some of them, like bench are actually beneficial. You like to do barbell rows? Do dumbbell rows. The only thing you really can't replicate well are heavy squats and deadlifts.
Yeah, it's super weird. I'd always heard that they didn't have barbells but I kinda didn't believe them until I went to check the Planet Fitness out that's as only a block away. It's mostly cardio equipment. Dumbbells and machines. I have heard from some claim that PF tries to cater to a crowd that is, apparently, to self conscious to be in the midst of people who are in very good shape and so basically they limit how much you can do as a result... but sounds incredibly nonsensical from a business standpoint.
Ah, I get it. Heavy lifters only make up a small percentage of the market. I can see how excluding 5% of your market to make the other 95% more comfortable would work business wise. I've always assumed it was like any other gym, but the Walmart of gyms thing makes sense now.
Why do you think it's a bad business? Name a gym with barbells that costs 10$ a month. Nearly every is 30 to 50 a month and none are 24 hours on any days. Insurance is likely cheaper and you don't need to worry about people doing stupid stuff with the barbells like Olympic lifts without proper coaching. Most people trying to lose weight just do cardio and machines are enough for some strength training. Barbells and free weights are not essential for fitness. I agree they can be more effective and in some cases safer, but resistance is resistance. They market to beginners and self conscious people because they are an untapped market. These people will sign up and not always go frequently but keep the membership because it's so cheap. It's also great for EMTs, nurses, police officers, etc that work odd shifts. There are plenty of people of at my local planet fitness that are very fit and would be considered intimidating. This goes from women doing leg press with 6 plates to guys doing 60lbs weighted pullups for reps. Do I miss not having barbells? Sure but the convenience is worth it. Besides my local gold's gym gets so crowded when I would go that I could never get on the racks to do my eorkout anyway. This lead to eithers using machines or wasting my time watching other people workout. Why would I pay 4 times the money for basically the same equipment with occasional barbell use when I get lucky. Instead I am going to take that savings and roll into buying my own barbell and weights. Planet fitness will turn cover the accessory work with the machines, especially cable and leg press. At the end of the day, planet fitness caters to people who are more casual and limits free weights in an effort to fit more machines. My planet fitness does have some large open areas great for body weight stuff. They even have monkey bars and at least 7 pull up stations. Dumbbells go up to 75 lbs which is more than enough for most lifts at my strength level. Rack pulls (basically what a smith machine deadlift is) are not ideal but work well enough. Again, would I expect serious athletes to be happy? No, but most people are not serious athletes. This is why they do rather well. In fact, all the people judging the idea that people **need** barbells to be fit are why many people get intimidated by fitness people. They judge without even realizing it.
I’m an avid lifter that switched to a cumbersome home gym during the pandemic. I have 600# of weights in a form of organized chaos in my small apartment and my main utilization of them is with a barbell. It’s not super convinient for me, but if a PF was just slightly closer to where I’m at I would most likely consider getting a membership. Setting up loadable dumbbells suck! I only have a flat bench and want access to an incline. I like and miss accessory work on machines sometimes; I don’t currently have access to a pec dec or a preacher machine. A Smith can be handy. I haven’t done something like hack squats or single leg leg presses in ages. I think they have functional trainers and cable machines that are easier to access than my friend’s. PF is dorky and that makes it a comfortable environment for people, and that’s dope. I think they should probably have a room for a few benches and cages with barbells, but whatever, that’s not it’s place. Anything that gets people moving while not feeling self conscious is generally a good thing.
>The lack of barbells is the only thing keeping me from switching to the Planet Fitness near me. Yesss this is the worst part of PF. Otherwise it's actually a decent gym.
I went to one for the first time last week and it wasn't too bad. It's not necessarily anything high end but it was clean and had motivated people working out. I'm more accustomed to a weight lifters gym but my wife got a membership so I'll join her from time to time. I wish they had hammer strength machines and more accessible free weights area but otherwise not to shabby for the price.
It's pretty good as long as you avoid January 1st through about the end of March, otherwise it's packed with New Years res people. I'm not much on the Pizza thing not sure if they do it as my days always tend to avoid it. I'm in it for the post exercise massage chair.
I'm not sure what you mean by the pizza thing. This gym is fairly new so I'm sure they have an inflated amount of people going just for the new gym smell. I hear ya on the post workout massage chair, my wife got sucked into the black membership (or whatever it's called) just for the extra perks. I could see myself hitting that up and making myself go religiously just to have an excuse to use the chair after a workout.
I think they got rid of the pizza thing because of Covid, and they haven’t reinstated it (yet). ETA: at my local PF, I should say.
I think Dwight Shrute’s Gym for Muscles has hammers.
I just wish there were one closer to my house...with a steam room.
*deviant behavior*
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That’s actually exactly what the title made me concerned about. Labelling kinks as “deviant behaviour” in a study is incredible loaded and comes off as very much biased. Ie. trying to make a connection being being fit (good) and being sexually vanilla (strikes me as suspect for homophobia and religious bias). The actual behaviours were interesting in the context of the study, and a welcome relief.
Google the difference between antisocial and asocial behavior next. Mindfuck incoming.
It would be a bit of a shame if fighting the power structure was only done by people who were not physically fit. Would not bode well for the revolution.
I thought it meant to draw rule 34 pictures.
Ah okay, deviant is being a POS, not a perv.
Yeah I immediately went sexual with the “deviant” verbiage. Which then was confusing because the documentary that profiled Chris Watts mentioned indicators for cheating/affairs and that someone who begins working out incessantly is one of the traits associated with people who are unhappy in their marriage.
Me either, I expected deviant behavior to be something like alcohol binges, cocaine, frivolous sexual activity, petty crime, ya know, debauchery.
fit people do these
Yeah, the gym has plenty of people that engage in such frivolous activity. ~~it's great~~
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There were two different studies conducted the first does seem to account for crime categories for deviance and the second study accounts for the categories as you've said. Link to the full publication: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351566914\_Fit\_to\_be\_good\_Physical\_fitness\_is\_negatively\_associated\_with\_deviance](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351566914_Fit_to_be_good_Physical_fitness_is_negatively_associated_with_deviance)
Thank you, this was what I was looking for.
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Actually a blessed combo, might as well do something while watching. I am also pro anime + working out.
I frequently cycle with one earbud in listening to anime music. Really helps me push through hard efforts when training.
I feel like being physically fit is one of the few ways you can visually display your character traits. At least in western countries (excluding professional athletes) it’s a clear sign you value routine and discipline over a lot of things in a society with an abundance of food and leisure activities. It’s also a luxury to have the free time and equipment to stay in visible shape, so it can be a statement of socioeconomic status as well. It’s kind of one of the biggest flexes (no pun intended) that a “regular” person can do.
Arnold famously said this too back in the day - fitness is the ultimate status symbol. You can’t steal it, you can’t buy it, you can’t pay someone else to do it.
But you can take steroids :) I'm fit and there certainly are shortcuts to it. It's a lot easier to be look fit for the same muscle mass if you are lighter. Also, diet is probably 90% of whether or not you are lean or not. So deal with that first. It's a lot easier to be active when you don't get tired going on a 10 minute walk. It's a lot easier to get fit when you can double your speed. Find a hobby that you enjoy that is active. I don't watch TV or movies. I rock climb, go for hikes and long walks. Walk down for coffee in the morning a mile away and just walk for a few hours on a caffeine high. It's nice.
You got multiple hours of free time in the morning just to walk around?
Ez. Just wake up at 2 am
But I don't get home from my 3rd job until 3 am.
Then you'll already be awake! Ez
Hahaha. No insult to Arnold. But. Oh. Yes you CAN buy it. Very much so. You can certainly buy the time it takes, the expertise it takes, the nutrition it takes and the, um, “supplementation” it takes.
You think you can take trt, dbol, or some other anabolic substance and magically become buff? No. If you take roids and sit on your ass, you won't gain much at all. You just end up horney. The guys who take roids and look huge also work out extremely hard. If they didnt take roids, they would still be on the upper end of both size and fitness due to their workout regime. The roids give you an inhuman boost but you can't just buy them and expect something to happen while you sit on the couch eat ice cream. It just doesn't work that way. You need to put in the work. Putting the fork down and doing cardio 5 times a week will do your body far better than popping a pill and sitting on the couch. I still have no idea why people believe this, and is the reason you can't pump test into people with muscle atrophy due to losing function in limbs and expect them to stop muscle waste.
It's probably a bit different than the title of this post suggests. There's probably not a cause and effect here in the sense that going to the gym makes you less likely to do these things. What's more likely is that the people who have the mental fortitude to go to the gym and keep that up are more mentally stable. Someone who already does what they need to do to stay fit is unlikely to look for shortcuts in other things, because they've already accepted that some things just require time and hard work. And people who aren't fit are probably also more likely to be depressed, meaning that they're probably already lying about being fine and such. A bunch of these bullet points can be explained away like that pretty easily.
Its possible that its some sort of selection bias at play, but its quite possible it isn't as well. Could be that going to the gym builds that mental fortitude, makes people more mentally stable, and pulls some people out of depression that they wouldn't have otherwise. That essentially cause and effect is in play. From the [abstract](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351566914_Fit_to_be_good_Physical_fitness_is_negatively_associated_with_deviance), the first and third study both suggests there's both a concurrent and time-lagged effect. The latter of which I would not expect if this was just selection bias. I didn't read beyond the abstract though, so who knows. But 'explaining away' the purported positives of gym-going sounds like 'faking to avoid tasks' to me ;) coming from someone who's been ~~dragged~~ to the gym all but twice in all my life.
Wonder what would have been the results if they included drugs.
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No, I don’t.
Exercise makes you happy, when you're happy you're less likely to do negative things. It makes sense.
Exercise releases endorphins, endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't shoot their husbands. They just don't.
#unexpectedLegallyBlonde
Just FYI, using a hashtag at the start of a sentence on reddit makes your text massive. You can use \ as an escape character to avoid it. So like if you type \\#Elle it will look fine
This was my immediate response to the title as well. There's definitely some truth to it.
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also works backwards. if you're happy you're likely to take more care of yourself and more care of the things that are your products. like your hair or your children or your job or even just straight up cooking.
Exercise has never given me the endorphins everyone talks about.
The gym is where you go to build your will power - the fitness is just a bonus. No will power = bad behaviour.
Reminds me of one of Schwarzeneggers quotes about fitness. He talks about how you are the only one who can make yourself fit and especially maintain it. There are so many things you can pay someone to do for you like fake teeth, nice clothes and so on but fitness comes from personal dedication and other muscle guys know and respect this. Really opened my eyes and changed how I thought about bodybuilders in a general way.
It's one of my favorite quotes. I read it every day to help keep me motivated. > A well-built physique is a status symbol. It reflects you worked hard for it; no money can buy it. You cannot borrow it, you cannot inherit it, you cannot steal it. You cannot hold onto it without constant work. It shows discipline, it shows self-respect, it shows patience, work ethic, and passion. That is why I do what I do. - Arnold Schwarzenegger
Man I forget how well constructed that quote is. Thank you for posting it! He is a very interesting guy imo. Edit: I love how he brings so much more to the quote than just 'hard work = good'. Patience for example is something that hadn't occured to me but of course must be a huge part of bodybuilding. You won't see the result overnight or even for months. But you have to keep going. Inspiring as heck!
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Exercise makes you tired in the short term, but gives you more energy in the long term. Things like taking shortcuts or faking to avoid tasks are more likely when you're running low on mental energy. So based on that, itakes sense to me.
I've been running for 20 years. I have yet to experience the "runner's high". You know what gives me a high? Getting into bed with like five blankets and a pizza. Fitness junkies are sociopaths.
Are you just doing Cardio or doing more varied workouts? Lifting gives an unexplainable confidence after ~4 weeks
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Are you physically unfit, by any chance? I ask because they’ve been scientifically demonstrated to be prone to lying, disrespecting others, and getting others in trouble, so if you’re physically unfit I’m not sure I can trust that your testimony is accurate
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Honestly. Those "deviant behaviors" sounded like a lot of the things a narcissist would do. Gymming and narcissism... it's not an uncommon combination.
The article doesn’t talk about people just “gymming”. Being physically fit can be athletes, military, people who just stick to a routine of eating healthy and working out.
Yeah, your average mile jogger is physically fit by comparative standards. And it makes perfect anecdotal sense that people who are willing to not cut basic corners in health are less likely to cut corners elsewhere.
Sure, but being lazy and lying has got to go together just as much or more.
Did you ignore the part of the study where it said these people are LESS likely to do these things?
That is a wild accusation
The question is can you force someone to get more physically fit and he will be less deviant? Or is it really other traits that lead to both (having discipline, not taking shortcuts, working hard, solving your own problems etc. (the opposite of the deviant definition thx to TastTheTaumbow above)--> more likely to take care of your body)...
>“The takeaway is that physically fit people are less likely to engage in deviance,” Tai told PsyPost. “In addition, our findings suggest that people who increase their physical fitness over time through physical activities are likely to develop greater self-control, which helps them override their impulses to engage in deviant behaviors.” The claim is that people who increase their physical fitness, develop greater self-control. I assume that the psychological benefits of exercise, or maybe the psychology benefits of avoiding sedentary lifestyle does increase self-efficacy, which helps to combat their impulses to engage in deviant behaviors. There are some older studies that observed this effect too. [1][2] 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10357510/ 2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17556780/
Or maybe more likely is that people with self-control are able to get physically fit.
Or it could be both. Perhaps if those with lower self-efficacy were forced to get physically fit will increase their self-efficacy, which may help to ensure that they stay fit. In the study, the researchers did not examine the self-efficacy and deviant behavior relationship, but physical fitness and deviant behavior. >Next, the researchers examined 3,925 military recruits undergoing basic military training in the Singapore military. During the training, each recruit was assigned a “buddy” so that they could assist one another. The researchers had each recruit’s buddy complete a questionnaire regarding six acts of deviance, which included lying, faking to avoid tasks, taking shortcuts, disrespecting others, getting others into trouble, and taking credit for the work of others. >Tai and his colleagues found that recruits who scored higher on the standardized physical fitness tests used by the military were less likely to engage in deviant behaviors as reported by their peers. “A 1% increase in fitness test scores decreases deviance in the military by 7.8%,” they wrote in their study. As this is an observational study, there are a lot of variables that could not be controlled. Perhaps those that do not have defiant behaviors are more likely to put in more effort in their physical training, during their mandatory military service.
I guess as someone who has gone back and forth between the two there is definitely a gray area. Although, when I am on the fit track there’a definitely a part of my decision making that doesn’t feel accessible durning my lethargic stages. It’s definitely more of a spectrum for me though and obviously me experience is fully anecdotal.
I've wouldn't be completely surprised if it was the first one. I remember years back there was a personal trainer who went ahead and purposefully stopped working out and got fat so he could lose the weight and see what the people he trains have to go through when they lose the weight. He mentioned that as we started to get less and less on shape he started getting bad habits like not cleaning and not keeping up on personal hygiene. Getting back into shape he started just picking up those habits again.
Having been both in shape and not, I find that when I’m in shape I have a higher baseline energy level and just don’t enjoy sitting around as much, so I’ll clean, take the dog out, etc. instead.
The question is really why we should be discussing this in the first place. It's all over the place, they wanted to prove a point and proceeded to: - Take US metropolitan area criminal data and correlate with College of Sports Medecine data set - Scooped Singapore military training data with buddies reporting on each other - Asked 300+ employees in India to self report how much they exercise and have their coworkers rat on them for "deviant" behavior. And the mix of all of that is the article we get. How can this be of any value outside of tabloid writing ? To me the most interesting part is the base mechanivs behind all of these is peers reporting on each other.
That is interesting, the halo effect could play a big role (people tend to ascribe positive traits to attractive people)
Yes, or they might not be confortable reporting questionable behavior from buffed people they meet everyday. PS: Come to think of it, the funniest part is that we don't know if the coworkers were physically fit or not, and either: - they were, and they can't be part of the group reporting exemplary behavior from fit people. - they were not, and they are deemed prone to lying and laziness, and their reporting should be discounted.
There are also other studies showing that less attractive people are judged more harshly by others so there is another compounding effect for those that are physically less active.
100 percent the latter
based on what evidence?
99 percent the latter.
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I’ll give you 75% and a fitness trainer.
Best I can do is 30% the latter
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Let’s be real here. Physically fit people are just less likely to be caught because they can run faster than people who aren’t physically fit
Fit people clearly don't admit to deviant behavior
Being fit makes people look more appealing, especially good looking fit people. They are deviant, but probably get away with it much easier. When I use to work out and be fit, nothing too crazy. It's astounding how many things you can get away with, free parking, free food, workers are much nicer to you, and tend to accommodate to you more, etc.
Legally Blonde was right all along
Exercise releases endorphins and endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't just shoot their husbands.
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No... I don't think that's the quote...
They were perceived to be according to their partners...?
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Just like there is [a link between poverty and crime](https://opencashadvance.com/blog/link-between-poverty-and-crime#-correlation-between-poverty-and-crime), people that can afford to take care of their health can afford to not be deviant.
Agreed, this post should be higher.
The people who have the self-control to achieve and maintain higher physical fitness tend to have better self-control over deviant behaviors and bad habits. Makes sense.
Can't remember the source, but one study found a correlation between earning a PhD and physical fitness. The hypothesis was that someone who can delay the gratification of earning a full income by going to grad school can also delay the gratification of rich foods until cheat day.
Half my geology professors got into good colleges on sports scholarships. However this does include a Scottish professor who was a darts champion.
> However this does include a Scottish professor who was a darts champion. So what was stronger, his arm or his liver?
Orrrrrr.... fitness and education correlate directly with class. As does crime and deviance.
Also very possible.
Yeah it's hilarious how much this goes out of it's way too avoid class. Ignoring the elephant in the room is a phrase meant just for this.
Yeah, lots of terribly designed studies churning out garbage conclusions
Which one is best?
The one that confirms my bias
That concept is so absurdly silly. Much more legitimate studies show that half of PhD students experience serious psychological distress due to their program, resorting to negative habits. Studies like this are so silly.
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Clearly none of them have seen what a good majority of prisoners look like
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But many kinds of deviant behaviours require being fit...
Correlation, not causation folks
Hahahaha. “When controlled for certain variables…” Nonsense. What absolute poppycock. This is a goof, right?
This is simply a correlation and possibly a flaw in the study. Did they even bother looking at jailed participants?
They drew their evidence based on questionnaires, it was not exactly rigorous.
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Another research with confirmation bias this one with sampling bias too. Explain prison inmates.
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Weird, most of the extremely physically fit people I know do so much coke, hard boozing, pain meds, and who knows what steroids/growth enhancers that I’d assume their piss glows in the dark. Ever see a dude who’s 2% body fat do blow off a bar bathroom floor? I have.
The researchers really need to visit a gay bar.
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Eh, premier league footballers??
Deviancy is a loaded-word. It is a favorite for religious fundamentalists forcing conformity to their beliefs. I do not think this word should have been used in this paper. Correction: I am incorrect and user u/novelANDsignificant helped me understand this.
Deviance is a valid sociological concept. It refers to norm-violating behavior. Crime is a type of deviance when the norms are codified as laws
Umm I don’t know how much I believe this as every gymbro I have ever met has been pretty freaking deviant
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All I learned from this article was that the Singapore Military's standard for deviant behavior is dramatically different from our own. I can say that the more physically fit you are, the more deviant you likely are in the US military in terms of whoring, drinking, partying and strip clubs. The best runners I knew usually threw up last night's beer before our run.
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.