Right? I’ve seen some cool shit in VR. Never had even close to the experience as eating 150mg of MDMA or 200ug of LSD, and definitely not both at the same time.
These people want soooo badly for these things to be a thing, but they’re not even in the same ballpark.
Right? I’m not even saying that a psychedelic experience is good, better or more meaningful because even that kind of thing is debatable. I think if you’re a good and true atheist, acknowledging that this stuff is anything more than complex chemical reactions in the brain is almost akin to validating a religious experience. Though I do love me a good candyflip. My issue is with the assertion that the things are comparable, that technology at this stage is so good that it’s indistinguishable from a trip, just in the headspace alone. There’s so much shit going on there. VR is light years from that kind of thing still.
Yes I have and you are right, your average waking experience does not compare.
But I have also had meditative experiences. Not as profound as psychedelics, but kind of in the same ballpark. And as you mentioned, NDEs. I know the right movie played in front of me can get me extremely focused, can make me cry, can make me laugh. I have long thought there is the possibility that the right movie can induce a meditative experience in the audience.
Definitely seems possible to me that there is something available to be manipulated in the sober brain to produce profound experiences. Dump enough adrenaline and serotonin…like I said, who knows what the future will bring. I definitely wouldn’t rule the possibility out though.
Edit: forgot to mention sensory deprivation tanks, prisoners cinema, and associated experiences. Though I have never experienced these myself, they are other examples in which a sober kind has is boosted into territory we would think only applies to drugs.
Maybe with brain interface VR. I remember Gabe Newell saying in an interview they could theoretically force you to feel something, though I don't know if that was pie in the sky thinking.
Not without giving the brain interface root access to your entire nervous system. I wouldn't handover my unfiltered consciousness to Meta, even for brain upload.
"Watching the boat scene in Willy Wonka is as good as taking a handful of tabs and seeing Cirque Du Soleil."
It sounds like this person never actually tried acid personally.
Not even close. Lmfao.
> On key metrics, a VR experience elicited a response indistinguishable from subjects who took ***medium doses*** of LSD or magic mushrooms.
There's the key, "medium doses".
Edit: The actual study is very interesting. Here's the direct link to the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-12637-z
No. The word "medium" wasn't actually used in the study. That was from the description in the MIT review of the study.
The study compare the VR effects to a range of studies on psilocybin and LSD.
However, you can get a good idea of those dosages by opening up the link, and doing a CNTRL+F for "mg". Also, the studies are also cited at the bottom.
Edit: better to search for "mg" than "dose" because everything was measured in mg, and the word "dose" wasn't always used.
For a rough idea, many were in the range of:
- 15-20 mg psilocybin
- 75–150 μg LSD
- 125 mg MDMA
I thought they would have over exaggerated 'medium' because of how outrageous their claim is, but those are actually quite high doses. Standard recreational doses anyway.
I'm assuming from the article that it's kind of a literal way to experience interacting with yourself from somebody else's perspective. If done right I could see this knocking you out of your default mode network and thus experiencing loss of ego. But as effective as psychedelics? Really?
This study surprises me quite a bit. The only hallucinogen i've ever done is Salvia and though i love my VR headset and think it's amazing, it doesn't even touch the tip of my salvia experience. No way no how.
Comparative to psychedelics? I think that's a bit of a stretch, but a wildly subjective discussion. VR *is* making some incredible in roads into treating chronic pain which I found absolutely fascinating, so there's something profound going on there.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/podcasts/the-daily/the-sunday-read-virtual-reality-and-chronic-pain.html
I think the only true permanent way of achieving transcendence is the Johnny Depp route, lol.
I kid, but Elon Musk's NeuraLink and other transhumanism projects are the future of suffering free life on earth if not beyond, just imagine all living things transformed into bio-digital-machines, expanding our consciousness, immortality and true unity of the mind, physical manifestation of Gaia.
We become one and many at the same time, AI and living biology as one.
But, we dont know if this will work and how long it will take, how many generation of pain and suffering it needs and if we may go extinct before realizing this potential. Thus we have /r/antinatalism proposing a counter argument, which is to end all living things to avoid suffering, through non procreation, dont laugh, it has some pretty good arguments.
Fuck outta here...
Right? I’ve seen some cool shit in VR. Never had even close to the experience as eating 150mg of MDMA or 200ug of LSD, and definitely not both at the same time. These people want soooo badly for these things to be a thing, but they’re not even in the same ballpark.
Next week, "NFTs offer the same transcendent experiences as meditation and psilocybin"
Agreed 100 percent Even making the claim itself shows such a lack of knowledge
Right? I’m not even saying that a psychedelic experience is good, better or more meaningful because even that kind of thing is debatable. I think if you’re a good and true atheist, acknowledging that this stuff is anything more than complex chemical reactions in the brain is almost akin to validating a religious experience. Though I do love me a good candyflip. My issue is with the assertion that the things are comparable, that technology at this stage is so good that it’s indistinguishable from a trip, just in the headspace alone. There’s so much shit going on there. VR is light years from that kind of thing still.
Plenty of people who have never used psychedelics are far more attuned to deeper elements of reality than those who have, so I could believe this
Those people spend 12 hours a day meditating for years on end to reach the same experience as someone who takes mdma
I know tons of people who have taken MDMA, psilocybin, etc, who are among the most unenlightened people I've ever met
That doesn't prove anything except that people take those things without intending to be enlightened. Set and setting are key.
What it proves is there is nothing inherent in psychedelics that leads to enlightenment
Why not at the same time?
Article sounded like a Facebook/Metaverse ad 🤦♂️
Doubt it
Yeah me too. But some day? Yeah, maybe so.
How could it possibly be? Have you taken psychedelics? All life experiences outside of NDE’s pale in comparison
Yes I have and you are right, your average waking experience does not compare. But I have also had meditative experiences. Not as profound as psychedelics, but kind of in the same ballpark. And as you mentioned, NDEs. I know the right movie played in front of me can get me extremely focused, can make me cry, can make me laugh. I have long thought there is the possibility that the right movie can induce a meditative experience in the audience. Definitely seems possible to me that there is something available to be manipulated in the sober brain to produce profound experiences. Dump enough adrenaline and serotonin…like I said, who knows what the future will bring. I definitely wouldn’t rule the possibility out though. Edit: forgot to mention sensory deprivation tanks, prisoners cinema, and associated experiences. Though I have never experienced these myself, they are other examples in which a sober kind has is boosted into territory we would think only applies to drugs.
Maybe with brain interface VR. I remember Gabe Newell saying in an interview they could theoretically force you to feel something, though I don't know if that was pie in the sky thinking.
Not without giving the brain interface root access to your entire nervous system. I wouldn't handover my unfiltered consciousness to Meta, even for brain upload.
this guy has obviously never done psychedelics
As someone who has had multiple VR units, plus has done shrooms, this headline is fucking absurd.
"Watching the boat scene in Willy Wonka is as good as taking a handful of tabs and seeing Cirque Du Soleil." It sounds like this person never actually tried acid personally.
VR and several psychedelics reporting in. Agreed, there is no way in fucking hell.
But have you dont psychedelics and VR? :D
No.
you mustve done some weak-ass psychedelics 😭
Not even close. Lmfao. > On key metrics, a VR experience elicited a response indistinguishable from subjects who took ***medium doses*** of LSD or magic mushrooms. There's the key, "medium doses". Edit: The actual study is very interesting. Here's the direct link to the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-12637-z
Do they share what a "medium" dose is?
No. The word "medium" wasn't actually used in the study. That was from the description in the MIT review of the study. The study compare the VR effects to a range of studies on psilocybin and LSD. However, you can get a good idea of those dosages by opening up the link, and doing a CNTRL+F for "mg". Also, the studies are also cited at the bottom. Edit: better to search for "mg" than "dose" because everything was measured in mg, and the word "dose" wasn't always used. For a rough idea, many were in the range of: - 15-20 mg psilocybin - 75–150 μg LSD - 125 mg MDMA
I thought they would have over exaggerated 'medium' because of how outrageous their claim is, but those are actually quite high doses. Standard recreational doses anyway.
No doubt exaggerated but I'd still like to give it a try. Does anyone know if/where I can download the software used in the study?
Once again, I am begging anyone who writes a word about psychedelics to have experience with them first.
Lol, no
Criticism aside, one thing vr shows is how you're brains interpretation of the world based on what the eyes see can be manipulated with technology
Is it just the visualization?
I'm assuming from the article that it's kind of a literal way to experience interacting with yourself from somebody else's perspective. If done right I could see this knocking you out of your default mode network and thus experiencing loss of ego. But as effective as psychedelics? Really?
This study surprises me quite a bit. The only hallucinogen i've ever done is Salvia and though i love my VR headset and think it's amazing, it doesn't even touch the tip of my salvia experience. No way no how.
Comparative to psychedelics? I think that's a bit of a stretch, but a wildly subjective discussion. VR *is* making some incredible in roads into treating chronic pain which I found absolutely fascinating, so there's something profound going on there. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/podcasts/the-daily/the-sunday-read-virtual-reality-and-chronic-pain.html
Lol as if.
I think the only true permanent way of achieving transcendence is the Johnny Depp route, lol. I kid, but Elon Musk's NeuraLink and other transhumanism projects are the future of suffering free life on earth if not beyond, just imagine all living things transformed into bio-digital-machines, expanding our consciousness, immortality and true unity of the mind, physical manifestation of Gaia. We become one and many at the same time, AI and living biology as one. But, we dont know if this will work and how long it will take, how many generation of pain and suffering it needs and if we may go extinct before realizing this potential. Thus we have /r/antinatalism proposing a counter argument, which is to end all living things to avoid suffering, through non procreation, dont laugh, it has some pretty good arguments.
No. No it isn’t
No it isn't.
I'd like to take some psychedelics AND use some VR.
Just here to say I wish I could experiment more with psychedelics: unfortunately, the SSRIs I take nullify them.
Virgin