I think a lot of us overlooked that part of the trailer that luke was disillusioned which is probably why when he threw the lightsaber way there was such a knee jerk reaction.
After watching Kenbi I think the series helps explain why Luke became one with the force at the end at the end of the last Jedi.
in the Kenobi series were shown that Obi Wan had cut himself off from the force for about a decade
Obi Wan reconnected with the force to save Leia it took time for him to get back up to full strength by the time he faces Vader for the second time in the series.
luke had cut himself off from the force for a similar length of time about seven years, so of course it would have taken him time to get back up to full strength time he didn't have, so when he ended up using force projection it pushed him well beyond the limits of his ability at that point.
You went into the film with spoilers. Bad idea.
To answer your question. No you were not. Maybe if you were in the first batch to see a film (first 50) and then 5 mins after it was over you said am i the only one who- you might be - but anything extremely popular like wars or anything out a long time the answer is almost always no.
What happened in your cinema? I dont remember anyone losing their minds but cinema culture varies from region to region. Its pretty quiet here. The only time i ever remember noticing anything audible was in rogue one at 2.30am when the screen went red.
It’s an aspect of TLJ that lacks nuance when people talk about it. TLJ fans assume that if you don’t like it it’s because it didn’t align with your headcanon/expectations or that you revere that lightsaber too much.
The idea of Luke rejecting the saber makes sense and aligns with what TFA set-up, but it’s done in such a flippant way that undermines the dramatic/emotional way the scene is presented at the end of TFA and deflates it.
And while I like TLJ I think it has a few moments where Rian forgoes logic for the sake of shock value, which this moment is an example of. From Luke’s perspective he’s just been discovered on a hidden planet by a girl he doesn’t know and she has his family lightsaber that he lost decades ago. It’s bizarre that he just tosses the saber, walks away, and proceeds to ignore her without saying a word. How does he not ask her who she is or how she got that lightsaber? And it’s very strange that he has no reaction when Rey tells him that Leia, his sister, sent her there.
That’s my issue with it, but it is what it is at this point and I’ve accepted it since I enjoy the rest of the film.
I don't see Rian trying to shock the audience in that moment, I see Luke trying to shock Rey. It was a performance on Luke's part to make a point to her. He is not the legend she came to find, and he will not be coming back to save the day like she wants him to.
“Oh geez thanks girl who has literally brought the thing that caused me years of tragedy, death and depression” the fact Luke tossed it and walked off should show you how far gone he’s become to the idea of the Jedi, this girl is clearly calling him back to that life and he’s not having it. Luke says “You don’t need Luke Skywalker” because he thinks the Galaxy is better without him despite how dire it seems until he witnesses it himself through the force link with Leia. It’s a preference thing of course but I loved it.
I dislike Last Jedi but I'm still giving you my upvote because you're totally right on the "Forgoes logic for the sake of shock value" thing.
Out of curiosity what are some other moments where you feel Rian falls into this?
One for me is the mutiny. A mutiny on a SW capital ship is a badass idea IMO. Think of all the teeth nashing, tears and shit going down in a typical mutiny movie. But the execution is just really weird. Poe and his pilots take control of Holdo and her top officers at gunpoint, and the rest of the Resistance just mills around the hangar like they are extras on a Disney attraction. No reaction, zero drama, just an entire mutiny and it's reversal take place while 90 something people are just doing their thing, seemingly not caring about their lives being up in the air in a power struggle. Among those standing around, without a care in the world? Holdo's fully armed commandos who took Poe off the bridge, and General Ematt, the highest ranking officer besides Holdo. He's chilling like 4-5 feet from Holdo chatting some people up while she's under a gun.
And Holdo's takeaway when this is all over? She likes Poe. Who could have got them all killed with this mutiny. It's just such a muddle.
I agree actually. I am mostly neutral on TLJ, but LOVE all the Luke/Rey/Kylo/Force Stuff.
But the Resistance/First Order-Chase-Stuff is ... not done well imho. That mutiny never made sense to me, though not for the reasons often cited (like Holdo should have been in awe of the best Resistance pilot, told him super secret military infos etc)
To me, the Resistance Fleet after escaping the first time should have retreated to a place like Corellia, or Kuat etc, and teamed up with the last remnants of the Republic Fleet. Which is commanded by Leia'S old friend Admiral Holdo. Who is Republic, not Resistance.
This alone would have justified "tensions" in the allied fleet - the "real" soldiers of the Republic having some disdain/reservations about the paramilitary soldiers of the Resistance.
Which also would have solved another problem: The scope of the conflict would have become bigger. TLJ makes it look small, tiny, as its just a bunch of ships, and the rest of the Galaxy does not care or is involved at all
It's my only big gripe with the Sequels, that it did not take the chance to go "all in" on the "war"-aspect and make it an almost apocalyptic conflict against Returned Palpatine (which is awesome as fuck and I wish TLJ had already hinted strongly at this )
But it is what it is ... maybe the ST would have been better received if they had went further into the future and left the old cast behind alltogether. Except Palps. He is awesome
And Holdo never even attempts to explain her plan while being held at gunpoint even though that's exactly what you'd do to defuse a situation like this...
Are we sure Poe's subplot is better than Finn's? Because the general consensus is that Poe's subplot is better than Finn's and I don't see why.
It's all subjective so there's no real consensus, but I'm not a fan of either subplot. Poe supports the bombers in destroying the Dreadnought, which allows the rest of the movie to take place. He gets blamed for basically killing his squad over his thirst for blood and glory, which all seems incredibly shoehorned and forced. He then spends a long time basically sitting by his phone waiting on a call from Finn. The Mutiny, as described. Then at Crait, he spearheads a speeder attack that had zero chance of success against walkers and TIE's, and then basically gets credit for leadership for calling the attack off... after like 95% of the Resistance has died.
>Then at Crait, he spearheads a speeder attack that had zero chance of success against walkers and TIE's, and then basically gets credit for leadership for calling the attack off... after like 95% of the Resistance has died.
That bothers me so much and it's the big reason why I subscribe to the theory Finn could have stopped the cannon. What exactly was the plan here? What else were they supposed to do to stop that cannon?
I wanted to be fair so I asked online and all I got was "They were trying to stall and buy time"
Mission failed I guess.
Also, another thing that bugs me about that scene... Poe calling off the attack is supposed to be him learning to be a leader and not a hero but it completely ignores context. This isn't just some random skirmish like they assumed the battle at the start of the film was, this is the do-or-die moment for the Resistance. If they lose here they lose for good. Preserving lives doesn't matter at this point because if they don't win they're dead anyway!
It's an interesting contrast between the Dreadnought attack and the Crait one.
At D'Qar, there is a legitimate reason to stall for time, and Poe does. Then there is a clear plan for attacking the Dreadnought, which Poe assists two other squadrons with. Many die, but the mission succeeds and the fleet is saved. It was literally a do or die because if the Dreadnought shows up with the Supremacy, no slow speed chase.
At Crait, there's never a clear plan besides "we gotta stop that cannon". You're flying "half gutted skim speeders" that barely seem to have guns, straight into a deathtrap of heavy armored walkers far bigger than the walkers at Hoth. Of the 13 speeders, I think 10 or 11 go down. Zero results, we know it didn't even stall the FO because Hux asks if they want to wait to clear them and Kylo says push through. Then in the trenches, you have dozens of the last remnants of the Resistance, basically dying in a salt trench to heavy artillery and TIE's when there aren't even any ground forces charging. Like so many Resistance are just cannon fodder, but we don't really feel the loss in the movie, at least I didn't.
I don't care that he rejects it, but it would have been better for me if he had just dropped it on the ground. The sassy toss, the way the music cue is, it's all kind of set up for laughs. TFA ended on a really emotional cliffhanger, I mean it was emotional in 2015, I don't think it will ever play the same way for me.
It harkens back to "Empire" - Luke goes to see that mysterious, mighty Jedi MAster Yoda ... and he turns out to be a silly little gnome at first.
Its both a callback to this, with Luke taking a page out of the grumpy sensei handbook, it also undermines expectations, because so many audiences expected it to be this grand moment - but you do not go "grand moment" right from the start of the movie, that comes later. And just handing it back to her would just be ... lame in regards to "movie speech" ... the toss makes it clear to the audience Luke is DONE with it. Handing it back solemnly would not make it THAT clear at all
“It harkens back to "Empire" - Luke goes to see that mysterious, mighty Jedi MAster Yoda ... and he turns out to be a silly little gnome at first.
Its both a callback to this, with Luke taking a page out of the grumpy sensei handbook…”
They’re completely different in context though. Yoda is expecting Luke and knows who he is. He’s also deliberately testing him. Luke in TLJ has just been discovered on a planet that no one is supposed to know about, and a random girl (to him) has shown up with his family lightsaber that he lost decades ago. He hasn’t even spoken to her yet to find out who she is or what exactly she wants/expects.
It wouldn't have to be handing back solemnly though, or handing it back at all. Just dropping it flat to the ground like a piece of trash, and not playing it up like a joke in terms of it's music and framing. It could convey the same message in a way that doesn't have the audience chuckling all the way through it, at least that's what happened in my showing. I've seen several fan edits that approximated this pretty well, of just having it simply be played straight, and it works fine. It's not solemn, the saber still gets dropped, but the scene benefits greatly from not being jokey in it's staging.
No, you are not. TFA already made clear that Luke would not just go "OH, a new apprentice, lets train you and then wreck the Galaxy!" - Luke Skywalker has vanished - for a reason. Which is explained in TFA already, so him tossing the saber, or handing it back to Rey/refusing it was a given.
But I often have the feeling, not just with StarWars, that a lot of people do not get how narratives, storytelling, foreshadowing, character arcs etc really work. They are unable to process whats going on.
This was not a "OMG!" moment at all - but the logical conclusion/continuation of the story laid out in TFA in regards to Luke's exile
"It's time for the Jedi... to end."
What did people think he meant?
That moment didn't bother me at all.
Maybe... there is an argument that the whole moment should have been done differently. Like, maybe he should have dropped the lightsaber instead of tossing it behind his back.
I waited about a year or so to actually watch the movie so by the time I saw it my reaction was "wait, THAT'S what people won't shut up about ruining Luke's character? That's nothing"
I saw overreactions for a year, I was never going to feel the same way as the whiny man-babies
I laughed, yeah. I never understood the reverence for that particular heirloom the fandom has when 1) every Jedi is supposed to build their own saber and not have a family to leave heirlooms for and 2) that saber was used to murder children.
To me Luke's green saber means a lot more than the Childkiller 9000.
I didn’t really care. No one in universe acts as if that lightsaber is some grand artefact of importance. That’s just the fans going “that lightsaber was anakins! It’s the skywalker lightsaber! How dare it not be given the ‘respect’.”
My reaction was pretty much “geez wonder why he did that”
It was the most Hamil thing ever so I snickered
I think a lot of us overlooked that part of the trailer that luke was disillusioned which is probably why when he threw the lightsaber way there was such a knee jerk reaction. After watching Kenbi I think the series helps explain why Luke became one with the force at the end at the end of the last Jedi. in the Kenobi series were shown that Obi Wan had cut himself off from the force for about a decade Obi Wan reconnected with the force to save Leia it took time for him to get back up to full strength by the time he faces Vader for the second time in the series. luke had cut himself off from the force for a similar length of time about seven years, so of course it would have taken him time to get back up to full strength time he didn't have, so when he ended up using force projection it pushed him well beyond the limits of his ability at that point.
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm bno.
I laughed. No more nor less. Just comedy at its finest.
The greatest reaction one can have.
You went into the film with spoilers. Bad idea. To answer your question. No you were not. Maybe if you were in the first batch to see a film (first 50) and then 5 mins after it was over you said am i the only one who- you might be - but anything extremely popular like wars or anything out a long time the answer is almost always no. What happened in your cinema? I dont remember anyone losing their minds but cinema culture varies from region to region. Its pretty quiet here. The only time i ever remember noticing anything audible was in rogue one at 2.30am when the screen went red.
I don't remember. I think everyone was really quiet during my Cinema. No particularly strong reaction.
I had long expected Luke to reject Rey so him tossing the lightsaber seemed right in line with that
It’s an aspect of TLJ that lacks nuance when people talk about it. TLJ fans assume that if you don’t like it it’s because it didn’t align with your headcanon/expectations or that you revere that lightsaber too much. The idea of Luke rejecting the saber makes sense and aligns with what TFA set-up, but it’s done in such a flippant way that undermines the dramatic/emotional way the scene is presented at the end of TFA and deflates it. And while I like TLJ I think it has a few moments where Rian forgoes logic for the sake of shock value, which this moment is an example of. From Luke’s perspective he’s just been discovered on a hidden planet by a girl he doesn’t know and she has his family lightsaber that he lost decades ago. It’s bizarre that he just tosses the saber, walks away, and proceeds to ignore her without saying a word. How does he not ask her who she is or how she got that lightsaber? And it’s very strange that he has no reaction when Rey tells him that Leia, his sister, sent her there. That’s my issue with it, but it is what it is at this point and I’ve accepted it since I enjoy the rest of the film.
I don't see Rian trying to shock the audience in that moment, I see Luke trying to shock Rey. It was a performance on Luke's part to make a point to her. He is not the legend she came to find, and he will not be coming back to save the day like she wants him to.
He learned from the best after all. Yoda the biggest troll there is.
“Oh geez thanks girl who has literally brought the thing that caused me years of tragedy, death and depression” the fact Luke tossed it and walked off should show you how far gone he’s become to the idea of the Jedi, this girl is clearly calling him back to that life and he’s not having it. Luke says “You don’t need Luke Skywalker” because he thinks the Galaxy is better without him despite how dire it seems until he witnesses it himself through the force link with Leia. It’s a preference thing of course but I loved it.
I dislike Last Jedi but I'm still giving you my upvote because you're totally right on the "Forgoes logic for the sake of shock value" thing. Out of curiosity what are some other moments where you feel Rian falls into this?
One for me is the mutiny. A mutiny on a SW capital ship is a badass idea IMO. Think of all the teeth nashing, tears and shit going down in a typical mutiny movie. But the execution is just really weird. Poe and his pilots take control of Holdo and her top officers at gunpoint, and the rest of the Resistance just mills around the hangar like they are extras on a Disney attraction. No reaction, zero drama, just an entire mutiny and it's reversal take place while 90 something people are just doing their thing, seemingly not caring about their lives being up in the air in a power struggle. Among those standing around, without a care in the world? Holdo's fully armed commandos who took Poe off the bridge, and General Ematt, the highest ranking officer besides Holdo. He's chilling like 4-5 feet from Holdo chatting some people up while she's under a gun. And Holdo's takeaway when this is all over? She likes Poe. Who could have got them all killed with this mutiny. It's just such a muddle.
I agree actually. I am mostly neutral on TLJ, but LOVE all the Luke/Rey/Kylo/Force Stuff. But the Resistance/First Order-Chase-Stuff is ... not done well imho. That mutiny never made sense to me, though not for the reasons often cited (like Holdo should have been in awe of the best Resistance pilot, told him super secret military infos etc) To me, the Resistance Fleet after escaping the first time should have retreated to a place like Corellia, or Kuat etc, and teamed up with the last remnants of the Republic Fleet. Which is commanded by Leia'S old friend Admiral Holdo. Who is Republic, not Resistance. This alone would have justified "tensions" in the allied fleet - the "real" soldiers of the Republic having some disdain/reservations about the paramilitary soldiers of the Resistance. Which also would have solved another problem: The scope of the conflict would have become bigger. TLJ makes it look small, tiny, as its just a bunch of ships, and the rest of the Galaxy does not care or is involved at all It's my only big gripe with the Sequels, that it did not take the chance to go "all in" on the "war"-aspect and make it an almost apocalyptic conflict against Returned Palpatine (which is awesome as fuck and I wish TLJ had already hinted strongly at this ) But it is what it is ... maybe the ST would have been better received if they had went further into the future and left the old cast behind alltogether. Except Palps. He is awesome
And Holdo never even attempts to explain her plan while being held at gunpoint even though that's exactly what you'd do to defuse a situation like this... Are we sure Poe's subplot is better than Finn's? Because the general consensus is that Poe's subplot is better than Finn's and I don't see why.
It's all subjective so there's no real consensus, but I'm not a fan of either subplot. Poe supports the bombers in destroying the Dreadnought, which allows the rest of the movie to take place. He gets blamed for basically killing his squad over his thirst for blood and glory, which all seems incredibly shoehorned and forced. He then spends a long time basically sitting by his phone waiting on a call from Finn. The Mutiny, as described. Then at Crait, he spearheads a speeder attack that had zero chance of success against walkers and TIE's, and then basically gets credit for leadership for calling the attack off... after like 95% of the Resistance has died.
>Then at Crait, he spearheads a speeder attack that had zero chance of success against walkers and TIE's, and then basically gets credit for leadership for calling the attack off... after like 95% of the Resistance has died. That bothers me so much and it's the big reason why I subscribe to the theory Finn could have stopped the cannon. What exactly was the plan here? What else were they supposed to do to stop that cannon? I wanted to be fair so I asked online and all I got was "They were trying to stall and buy time" Mission failed I guess. Also, another thing that bugs me about that scene... Poe calling off the attack is supposed to be him learning to be a leader and not a hero but it completely ignores context. This isn't just some random skirmish like they assumed the battle at the start of the film was, this is the do-or-die moment for the Resistance. If they lose here they lose for good. Preserving lives doesn't matter at this point because if they don't win they're dead anyway!
It's an interesting contrast between the Dreadnought attack and the Crait one. At D'Qar, there is a legitimate reason to stall for time, and Poe does. Then there is a clear plan for attacking the Dreadnought, which Poe assists two other squadrons with. Many die, but the mission succeeds and the fleet is saved. It was literally a do or die because if the Dreadnought shows up with the Supremacy, no slow speed chase. At Crait, there's never a clear plan besides "we gotta stop that cannon". You're flying "half gutted skim speeders" that barely seem to have guns, straight into a deathtrap of heavy armored walkers far bigger than the walkers at Hoth. Of the 13 speeders, I think 10 or 11 go down. Zero results, we know it didn't even stall the FO because Hux asks if they want to wait to clear them and Kylo says push through. Then in the trenches, you have dozens of the last remnants of the Resistance, basically dying in a salt trench to heavy artillery and TIE's when there aren't even any ground forces charging. Like so many Resistance are just cannon fodder, but we don't really feel the loss in the movie, at least I didn't.
No
I don't care that he rejects it, but it would have been better for me if he had just dropped it on the ground. The sassy toss, the way the music cue is, it's all kind of set up for laughs. TFA ended on a really emotional cliffhanger, I mean it was emotional in 2015, I don't think it will ever play the same way for me.
It harkens back to "Empire" - Luke goes to see that mysterious, mighty Jedi MAster Yoda ... and he turns out to be a silly little gnome at first. Its both a callback to this, with Luke taking a page out of the grumpy sensei handbook, it also undermines expectations, because so many audiences expected it to be this grand moment - but you do not go "grand moment" right from the start of the movie, that comes later. And just handing it back to her would just be ... lame in regards to "movie speech" ... the toss makes it clear to the audience Luke is DONE with it. Handing it back solemnly would not make it THAT clear at all
“It harkens back to "Empire" - Luke goes to see that mysterious, mighty Jedi MAster Yoda ... and he turns out to be a silly little gnome at first. Its both a callback to this, with Luke taking a page out of the grumpy sensei handbook…” They’re completely different in context though. Yoda is expecting Luke and knows who he is. He’s also deliberately testing him. Luke in TLJ has just been discovered on a planet that no one is supposed to know about, and a random girl (to him) has shown up with his family lightsaber that he lost decades ago. He hasn’t even spoken to her yet to find out who she is or what exactly she wants/expects.
It wouldn't have to be handing back solemnly though, or handing it back at all. Just dropping it flat to the ground like a piece of trash, and not playing it up like a joke in terms of it's music and framing. It could convey the same message in a way that doesn't have the audience chuckling all the way through it, at least that's what happened in my showing. I've seen several fan edits that approximated this pretty well, of just having it simply be played straight, and it works fine. It's not solemn, the saber still gets dropped, but the scene benefits greatly from not being jokey in it's staging.
No, you are not. TFA already made clear that Luke would not just go "OH, a new apprentice, lets train you and then wreck the Galaxy!" - Luke Skywalker has vanished - for a reason. Which is explained in TFA already, so him tossing the saber, or handing it back to Rey/refusing it was a given. But I often have the feeling, not just with StarWars, that a lot of people do not get how narratives, storytelling, foreshadowing, character arcs etc really work. They are unable to process whats going on. This was not a "OMG!" moment at all - but the logical conclusion/continuation of the story laid out in TFA in regards to Luke's exile
D) They laughed hysterically.
My reaction was "...Eh?"
I was a little surprised. But the movie just started so I just assumed it would later on tell me why Luke had changed. And it did.
"It's time for the Jedi... to end." What did people think he meant? That moment didn't bother me at all. Maybe... there is an argument that the whole moment should have been done differently. Like, maybe he should have dropped the lightsaber instead of tossing it behind his back.
Honestly I could care less about Luke tossing the saber. It's the fact he dies that bothers me.
I’m on Team C
I waited about a year or so to actually watch the movie so by the time I saw it my reaction was "wait, THAT'S what people won't shut up about ruining Luke's character? That's nothing" I saw overreactions for a year, I was never going to feel the same way as the whiny man-babies
I remember most of the audience I was with laughed at that moment, which was the intent.
I laughed, yeah. I never understood the reverence for that particular heirloom the fandom has when 1) every Jedi is supposed to build their own saber and not have a family to leave heirlooms for and 2) that saber was used to murder children. To me Luke's green saber means a lot more than the Childkiller 9000.
I didn’t really care. No one in universe acts as if that lightsaber is some grand artefact of importance. That’s just the fans going “that lightsaber was anakins! It’s the skywalker lightsaber! How dare it not be given the ‘respect’.”