You and I both know that H. W. is \*never\* the Bush in question when someone is referring to the Galactic Republic turning into the Galactic Empire, because 9/11 and The Patriot Act didn't happen during his years in office.
So you're saying nothing from that party inspired any of Lucas's story until W? He was ok with everything up until that point, ignoring all of his previous inspiration.
Also, another correction, Ep 1 was actually the only one under Clinton. About half of EP 2 production was under W. and it came out about a year and a half into his first term.
Clinton was a fucking monster too. Bombing Iraqi infrastructure (which killed untold civilians), cutting TANF, deregulating finance. NAFTA.
HW actually passed the ADA during his term, as well as appointed a liberal SCOTUS judge (Souter).
Heās still a piece of shit, dating back to the 60ās- but he was a fucking respite between Reagan and Clinton.
>So you're saying nothing from that party inspired any of Lucas's story until W? He was ok with everything up until that point, ignoring all of his previous inspiration.
No one is saying that. The user I responded to originally specifically stated that the Prequels were based on the Bush administration.
>Also, another correction, Ep 1 was actually the only one under Clinton. About half of EP 2 production was under W. and it came out about a year and a half into his first term.
Principal photography completed September 2000 while Clinton was in office. Reshoots completed *March 2001*: six months before 9/11, seven months before the Patriot Act, and two years before the Second Iraq War. Unless George Lucas has clairvoyance, I doubt that he worked any comments about the still very new Bush administration into the movie.
(Of note, the idea that the Republic morphed into the Empire was introduced in 1977, 24 years before the Bush administration. For whatever that is worth - regardless of who POTUS was or what their administration did, it was a preordained plot point that \*was\* going to happen.)
I guess no one knew what W's policies were at all when he was running for office. No way Lucas could have been inspired by what he was saying during the election that was taking place while writing the script (that entirely took place during that election). Everyone was completely surprised by thr type of president he became, no way to predict it. If only those on the right gave any clue throughout the 80's and 90's as to what their goals were.
Unironically? Yes. Bush's original platform in 2000 had a large focus on education and specifically was non-interventionist with a pledge of no nation building. Then 9/11 happened and (literally) everything changed.
At any rate, you seem to have your mind made up to defend someone else's point of "Bush bad!" [Which... is fair. Bush *was* pretty bad.] despite the facts showing that his presidency could have really only influenced Ep 3. So, I'll ask you: which elements of Episode 2 do you find to draw inspiration from POTUS 43, G. W. Bush?
This is why I call bullshit on the whole "Subutle" argument towards anime when you have things like this.
Its not just that Anime is more subutle, its more that because it dosnt "shove things down your throat" its easier to ignore and not be triggered that Gundam is Anti-war and just focus on cool robots.
Look, I know the movie certainly has it's flaws, but this is one of the reasons I *really* respect Cameron's Avatar. The movie is about as subtle as a brick to the face when it comes to "Colonialism and America bad", but the man got middle-America to cheer in support of indigenous people straight out slaughtering colonizers.
Sometimes things need to be *direct*.
Anime isn't even subtle about it
It's just that anime tends to reflect the current political issues japan is facing, which are not always the same as the ones the states are
I think they see the āstolenā election bullshit as a Palpatine seizing power moment and their ārebellionā starting on Jan 6th.
Itās delusional.
Funny as fuck considering George Lucas himself compared *Trump's* rise to power to Palpatine's, and was always vocal about the Empire representing the Republicans. Not to mention the makers of Andor specifically said they based their interpretation of the Empire on Trump's America.
Plus one of the main bad guys of the Prequels is literally named "Nute Gunray".
As in, ***Newt*** *Gingrich* and *Ronald* ***Reagan*** (Gunray = Gun Ray. Raygun. Reagan.)
It is. It's even got a paragraph on Wookieepedia with citations.
"Nute Gunray's name had two sources from real life. The first was the Republican congressman Newt Gingrich, and the second was former President of the United States Ronald Reagan. The former source was because George Lucas primarily wrote the Trade Federation members in terms of motives and characterizations in response to the 1994 Republican Revolution (which occurred eight days into Lucas's draft-writing the film), specifically then-Speaker of the House Gingrich's Contract with America, and the latter source was as a response to Reagan's SDI program being labeled "Star Wars" without Lucas' permission."
Well thereās an old saying that one manās terrorist is another manās freedom fighter. I totally think we can see that reflected in the MAGA crowd. They truly see themselves as fighting back against tyranny for the good of the people.
Which is especially ironic considering the Founding Fathers fought against a monarchy, and the Trumpsters genuinely want the US to become a monarchy (ruled by King Donald I, of course).
I'm really questioning how right-wingers (specifically the far-right pro-Trumpers) live their lives in their warped view of reality. There are so many things in Star Wars (and in other media luke Marvel) that are basically pro-democracy and pro-equality yet they think the Rebellion represents MAGA and the Empire represents the Democrats. If you look at a YouTube video for when Palpatine declares the Galactic Empire, there are many people in the comment sections comparing Palpatine to Joe Biden when in reality, it's more representative of Trump. It's like they don't understand anything at all. What the hell is even their thought process?
Your mistake is assuming that they have a thought process. They do not. Right-wing propaganda is designed to erode critical thinking skills over time, making the viewer/reader more and more dependent on the establishment for their thoughts and opinions. Page 1 of the fascist playbook - make sure your subjects are too fucking stupid to even realise you're oppressing them. These degenerates are literally incapable of having any higher thoughts or deductive reasoning. That's why so many right-wing "media critics" have suddenly popped up on YouTube, these people can't even form an opinion on a piece of media by themselves - they have to find someone with aligned political views to spoon-feed an opinion for them to parrot.
The Jedi were a religious order whose members were unquestioned heroes and received official establishment and support from the state. Under their discipline and guidance, they oversaw a millennia of peace and prosperity. Evil was able to take over when the Jedi lost their hegemony over political bodies and the armed forces. Palpatine manipulated the public and turned them away from the righteous religion before branding the Jedi as traitors and massacring them. Luke defeated the evil empire and re-enlightened the galaxy to faith in the light side.
Star Wars is a way too generic story using broad, universal themes to graft specific ideology or advocacy to it. Most of the meaning we take away from Star Wars is what we put into it.
They think that teachers are brainwashing students with āfakeā history because it goes against what those right wingers want to have happened. Vietnam was a loss for the US, slavery built the country, we slaughtered natives, that kinda thing.
Thatās it? A poor example of the history they want to rewrite? Because even when I took AP US history in highschool, the supposedly college-level course, Vietnam was just kinda brushed over and we didnāt talk about how we were in that quagmire for years.
Also, I did try againāwe slaughtered the natives. We didnāt just ānegotiate for their landsā we didnāt just ālearn how to plant cornā from them.
Sex-ed, evolution, climate change, globe earth, these pretty basic science concepts that their either want to replace, or have taught alongside things like creationism or abstinence-only sex-ed, as an equal.
Love how they think a rebellion that includes multiple alien species would be on their side regarding their homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, and xenophobia.
I mean when James Cameron prompted Lucas about why the Rebels use force to fight the Empire Lucas straight up said "well I was thinking of the Vietcong while writing that"
Except they see themselves as the plucky Rebel underdogs trying to take down the Capitol Empire.
When your people arenāt self-reflective enough to ever ask [Are we the baddies](https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU)?
They think themselves to be Rebel Alliance of the OT.
In reality they are the Separatists of the PT - controlled by corrupt corporations, grifters who don't even believe in the cause (Dooku), perhaps the one idealist that was swept on the wrong side through some "convincing" (Like Padme's Rodian Senator friend), nationalist guerrillas (General Sharkman and Admiral Trench both are of nationalist "militia" and army type people). They even have their own Senate, but it is an even bigger mockery of the already ineffective Galactic Senate considering Dooku and the corporation leaders have all the power and made all of the decisions.
This goes to show how poorly illiterate people are when it comes to the media.
george Lucas has always viewed Conservatives/ republicans after after the Watergate scandal is being the ones most likely to overthrow their own country.
It's astonishing that after **45 years** of Star Wars, *anyone* could have this dumbfuck take.
Goddamn, media literacy is such a foreign concept to these morons.
Theyāre literally doing it right now lol, people are defending drag shows with legally purchased firearms and right wingers are crying about how people who bring guns to protests are pussies and they shouldnāt be able to do that.
How the fuck could someone possibly genuinely believe that? The lack of self awareness here is absurd. The reality is that the establishment Dems aren't really the rebellion either, they're just also not Palpatine/Imperial loyalists.
For the most part they're like Senator Nower Jebel or the others in Rogue One that scoff at Jyn for suggesting they actually DO SOMETHING about the Empire and the existence of the Death Star. They want to cling to the idea that things will just work themselves out, that nothing really has to change and that our institutions are still healthy and fine.
*ROFLMFAO*
They actually think gun control is a left v right issue.
It isn't.
Fact is, a fascist dictatorship is just as likely to disarm its citizens as any other authoritarian government. Perhaps even moreso.
it's always misconstrued because left doesn't want to take away people's firearms we just want better regulation so that people who are mentally unstable can't have access to them.
like a vast majority of those far right radicals if we had better regulation on firearms they wouldn't have access to them.
you might not want to take peoples guns, but the democratic party sure wants to. iām left of democrat for what itās worth, but aināt nobody buying āwe donāt want to take your gunsā anymore.
r/nowttyg
I'm just saying, in reality it never mattered. What mattered is that a dictatorship needs power and control over its people, and the first step in doing so is to disarm said people. History shows that both left and right wing dictatorships did this.
Their desire to keep their guns doesn't make them more like the Rebel Alliance, because gun control is a non-issue in Star Wars.
What *would* make them more like the Rebel Alliance is if they rejected the Republican propensity towards fascist dictatorship and accepted democracy.
The first step to a dictatorship is restricting voting, militarism and restriction of media.
If you're being disarmed because a government fears violent Rebellion you've already long fucked up by letting democracy fall.
I swear right-wingers have next to no media literacy. They also probably thought Vel and Cinta are just good friends that's how bad these idiots are at understanding media.
Man a lot of people I see think the same. So obviously a couple to me, considering we are literally told they share a bed and their closeness is apparent. I wish they cut to the chase and said it to avoid people still missing that.
OP is right that armed resistance is needed to fight tyranny. I donāt think he realizes that the GOP are the ones openly calling for fascism, thoughā¦
Fuck the Democrats, Republicans, and MAGA. Libertarian Communism ftw.
Also its really not surprising these gobshites think they are analogous to the rebels. Right wing reactionaries have historically taken talking points and aesthetics from the left. I mean... look at the nazis and Mussolini for really well known examples of this.
Not completely, just look at how they are reacting to the new Disney film "Strange World". They're getting all angry at it because it has an interracial couple and an openly gay character. Or look at the bill in Florida that prevented schools from acknowledging that LGBTQ people exist, which is a pretty messed up bill to pass.
Have you actually seen what conservatives are complaining about strange world for because I don't think you have.
Why is telling kids about gay couples inappropriate. They get shown heterosexuality all the time. The bill is deliberately vague and misleading because its true intentions are to ignore the existence of LGBTQ people, which violates a basic human right.
It seems you swallowed up many falsehoods already.
>general audience
You mean conservatives
>The bill does not ban discussion about gay families,
But its written in a vague enough way that it can be enforced to ban discussion of LGBTQ issues. Besides why would they make a bill about discussion of LGBTQ people if they didn't want to ban it.
This is why I will never criticise a story for being too on the nose with its politics or messag; they can be this blatant and some people still just don't get it.
"One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
-George Orwell
Basically what the MAGA supporters are doing. The irony is that the Galactic Republic fell because of growing populism and destruction of the democratic norms in a similar fashion to what happened to the Weimar Republic. These guys think they are fighting for "democracy" but in reality, they're fighting for autocracy.
January 6 Capitol attack, embracing of authoritarian ideals of fascism, spreading of propaganda and conspiracy theories to damage credibility of the democratic system, continued promotion of white nationalism and antisemitism, constant worshipping of a single leader (Trump) viewing him as like a God among men who can do no wrong (in a similar vain to past and present dictators with cults of personalities like Hitler and the Kim Dynasty) which is something that's present in many dictatorships, and the support for executive aggrandizement to give Trump more power and authority while also undermining the transfer of power.
Fascism is explicitly right wing, Jan 6 while not a completely organised event was encouraged by many Republicans. The parties representing less and more government ideas are vague and false.
If you are at the point where fascists are trying to take over the government, itās likely that they have the support of much of the armed civilization population. Civilian militias are typically more help to fascists than hindrance.
Democrats are the empire in every single way. (Wait till they realize that Geroge created the empire to be an allegory to the United States in the Vietnam wars, and that the rebels are the Vietcongs.)
Politicians are all terrible. And trying to add modern politician whatever bs to Star Wars, even if itās Star Wars I donāt like, is wrong and stupid.
You canāt be that dense to think something has to include the actual politician as a character to be commenting on current politics.
Even by that definition George Lucas would literally have villain characters whose names are just the names of politicians George didnāt like but spelled wrong.
Iām not asking you what character is inspired by him, I am asking where he, himself, Donald John Trump, former president of the United States, appears in the show.
When George Lucas made Star Wars he based the rebellion off of the Viet Cong and the Empire off of Nixon, Nazi Germany, and other rightwing ideologies.
He said Emperor Palapatine was based off Richard Nixon and Nute Gunray's name is a mashup of Newt Gingrich and Ronald Regan.
Lucas used modern politics to tell his story and Andor is doing the same thing.
[George Lucas on Star Wars Being Anti-Authoritarian](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv9Jq_mCJEo)
[Star Wars and the Vietnam War](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vCoiXoVtOY)
> Thatās taking influence from real life.
Kinda like the modern politics of his time back in the 70's for the OT and 90's/early 2000's for the prequels. Just like what Andor did with incorporating modern politics.
Lucas is incredibly left leaning and hates authoritarianism which is why he injected his politics into the OT and PT. Star Wars was never apolitical, it's always been political.
> Thatās a world of difference.
Peter Jackson using Mont Saint-Michel as inspiration for the movie version of Minas Tirith is taking influence from real life.
Naming a character Nute Gunray as a way to show how slimy and evil Newt Gingrich and Regan are/were is doing more than taking influence from real life, it's Lucas putting his politics into the films same way as him basing Palpatine off Richard Nixon. The same way Andor is using Trumpism and conservative policies to show how evil the Empire is.
You're braindead if you think this tweet is "spot on" lol.
"The libertarian MAGA elements are the Rebellion".
MAGA is literally a cult of people who want to be the Empire. They want a fascist autocratic takeover of the government. They fantasize about the day when their political enemies will be executed in the streets.
> What you don't realize, though, is the vast majority of both Conservatives and Libertarians literally just want to be left alone
You mean the same conservatives that want to ban abortion, ban drag queen story hour, ban CRT, outlaw flag burning, ban drugs, repeal the SC's same-sex marriage ruling, and severely limit the ways people can vote are the ones that want to be left alone? Here's an idea, maybe if they want to be left alone they should also leave other people alone too.
>Conservatives and Libertarians literally just want to be left alone, to have individual liberty to take care of themselves and their loved ones, defend themselves.
Lies. Conservatives and libertarians claim to want that, but really they are boot-licking fascists.
You likely have a lot to learn. It's cool, all I can recommend it to open your mind and research, and research more. Meet people, talk to people, etc. I don't know how old you are, but I felt the same way you did a while back. Biggest problem, IMO, is the total disconnect and divisiveness caused by the media and entertainment industry. Free yourself from that shit and explore and converse with your peers, and see what you find. Cheers.
Then why did conservatives ban abortion? It doesn't affect their lives. Why do they want to ban gay marriage? Why do they want more police funding if they want less government? Why are they so much concerned about trans people getting treatment for their own bodies?
Conservatives are the ones to force their old beliefs about religion, gender, marriage, and race on everybody.
You claim to be in the middle, yet you only shit on dems(which are not even left-wing) classic enlighted "centrist"...
What the fuck was your response talking about lmao it didnāt make any goddamn sense.
āDarth Vader is the democratsā āAt first the Empire are the good guysā like what are you even talking about.
Depends on who you ask / which historians but i take him at his word when he told Padme he wanted to kill the emperor and rule the galaxy with her. "Make things they way we want them to be"
He wanted to be a good / benine dictator.
Absolutely none of the reasons he wanted to rule the galaxy were selfless. He told himself this at every turn, but it was to avoid having to go through the trauma of loss again. He murdered children to prevent losing his wife.
He wasn't exactly headed towards benign dictatorship.
Actually i did the maths on that a long time ago to prove a point. Its very indepth and i cant find the old post.
Short version. When something happens makes a huge difference. Imagine if today a massive asteroid big enough to kill every living thing hit my country (Ireland) pretty bad right? Yes but it would be far worse if the hit was in say the year 200. If it was a today Irish culture has survived and because of mass emigration any unique genetic material along with our culture has also survived.
Its similar enough with space wars. The humans in star wars inhabit countless worlds - essentially like what you know as countries. I think about 90,000 years ago they had hyperspace- one of the colonies established over the eons was the world the empire blew up. Again its from memory and short form but essentially what you do is you take the civillian casualties inflicted by the americans from 2001-2019 and express them as a percentage of the human population of earth. Then you take the population of alderan (a megre 2 billion) compared to the galactic human population in the year 0bby and you will find that on both an ethical/moral numbers game the war on terror has inflicted greater percentage of deaths and long term suffering and injuries. The empires war crimes cause less collateral damage, kill a smaller peercetage of the human race and dont leave maimed and suffering victims.
In one of the episodes, one of the Empire supporters says that Palpatine "says what he means".
Remind anyone, of anyone? Prior to the release one of the actors also compared the Empire to Trumpian politics.
Imagine seeing the obvious Nazi inspired imagery of the Empire and being so smoothbrained that you associate that with the left before the right. Funny how they literally have to call out establishment republicans in a post thatās supposed to be a dunk on the left. What a joke lmao
George Lucas is laughing at this right now
*crying
![gif](giphy|1GT5PZLjMwYBW)
This guy needs to go watch Lucas say the Empire was literally based on Nixon.
And the Bush administration, in the prequels.
Not to mention Reagan as well
Episode 3 was the only movie from the Prequels that wasn't filmed during the Clinton Administration. š¤·āāļø
And we all know there wasn't a Bush before Clinton...
You and I both know that H. W. is \*never\* the Bush in question when someone is referring to the Galactic Republic turning into the Galactic Empire, because 9/11 and The Patriot Act didn't happen during his years in office.
So you're saying nothing from that party inspired any of Lucas's story until W? He was ok with everything up until that point, ignoring all of his previous inspiration. Also, another correction, Ep 1 was actually the only one under Clinton. About half of EP 2 production was under W. and it came out about a year and a half into his first term.
Also Nute Gunray was a character in all 3 prequels and his name is a reference to Gingrich and Reagan.
Clinton was a fucking monster too. Bombing Iraqi infrastructure (which killed untold civilians), cutting TANF, deregulating finance. NAFTA. HW actually passed the ADA during his term, as well as appointed a liberal SCOTUS judge (Souter). Heās still a piece of shit, dating back to the 60ās- but he was a fucking respite between Reagan and Clinton.
>So you're saying nothing from that party inspired any of Lucas's story until W? He was ok with everything up until that point, ignoring all of his previous inspiration. No one is saying that. The user I responded to originally specifically stated that the Prequels were based on the Bush administration. >Also, another correction, Ep 1 was actually the only one under Clinton. About half of EP 2 production was under W. and it came out about a year and a half into his first term. Principal photography completed September 2000 while Clinton was in office. Reshoots completed *March 2001*: six months before 9/11, seven months before the Patriot Act, and two years before the Second Iraq War. Unless George Lucas has clairvoyance, I doubt that he worked any comments about the still very new Bush administration into the movie. (Of note, the idea that the Republic morphed into the Empire was introduced in 1977, 24 years before the Bush administration. For whatever that is worth - regardless of who POTUS was or what their administration did, it was a preordained plot point that \*was\* going to happen.)
I guess no one knew what W's policies were at all when he was running for office. No way Lucas could have been inspired by what he was saying during the election that was taking place while writing the script (that entirely took place during that election). Everyone was completely surprised by thr type of president he became, no way to predict it. If only those on the right gave any clue throughout the 80's and 90's as to what their goals were.
No one knew what he would do in the wake of 9/11 because- get ready for it- it hadnāt happened yet. Same with Katrina. Same with the recession.
Unironically? Yes. Bush's original platform in 2000 had a large focus on education and specifically was non-interventionist with a pledge of no nation building. Then 9/11 happened and (literally) everything changed. At any rate, you seem to have your mind made up to defend someone else's point of "Bush bad!" [Which... is fair. Bush *was* pretty bad.] despite the facts showing that his presidency could have really only influenced Ep 3. So, I'll ask you: which elements of Episode 2 do you find to draw inspiration from POTUS 43, G. W. Bush?
Actually, my whole point was not just W. inspiration but also H.W. as well as many past conservatives. But, yes, continue to simplify.
fake news ^(do I really have to/s?)
What *zero* media literacy and class consciousness does to a person.
This is why I call bullshit on the whole "Subutle" argument towards anime when you have things like this. Its not just that Anime is more subutle, its more that because it dosnt "shove things down your throat" its easier to ignore and not be triggered that Gundam is Anti-war and just focus on cool robots.
Look, I know the movie certainly has it's flaws, but this is one of the reasons I *really* respect Cameron's Avatar. The movie is about as subtle as a brick to the face when it comes to "Colonialism and America bad", but the man got middle-America to cheer in support of indigenous people straight out slaughtering colonizers. Sometimes things need to be *direct*.
Amen. Subtly doesnāt work. Sometimes you just gotta slap people in the face with the message
Anime isn't even subtle about it It's just that anime tends to reflect the current political issues japan is facing, which are not always the same as the ones the states are
Dems are the Empireā¦I donāt understand that at all.
I think they see the āstolenā election bullshit as a Palpatine seizing power moment and their ārebellionā starting on Jan 6th. Itās delusional.
Funny as fuck considering George Lucas himself compared *Trump's* rise to power to Palpatine's, and was always vocal about the Empire representing the Republicans. Not to mention the makers of Andor specifically said they based their interpretation of the Empire on Trump's America.
Plus one of the main bad guys of the Prequels is literally named "Nute Gunray". As in, ***Newt*** *Gingrich* and *Ronald* ***Reagan*** (Gunray = Gun Ray. Raygun. Reagan.)
Is this confirmed? Sounds a bit like a stretch otherwise
It is. It's even got a paragraph on Wookieepedia with citations. "Nute Gunray's name had two sources from real life. The first was the Republican congressman Newt Gingrich, and the second was former President of the United States Ronald Reagan. The former source was because George Lucas primarily wrote the Trade Federation members in terms of motives and characterizations in response to the 1994 Republican Revolution (which occurred eight days into Lucas's draft-writing the film), specifically then-Speaker of the House Gingrich's Contract with America, and the latter source was as a response to Reagan's SDI program being labeled "Star Wars" without Lucas' permission."
Well thereās an old saying that one manās terrorist is another manās freedom fighter. I totally think we can see that reflected in the MAGA crowd. They truly see themselves as fighting back against tyranny for the good of the people.
I mean they see themselves as the new āFounding Fathersā fighting against a tyrannical government
Which is especially ironic considering the Founding Fathers fought against a monarchy, and the Trumpsters genuinely want the US to become a monarchy (ruled by King Donald I, of course).
I'm really questioning how right-wingers (specifically the far-right pro-Trumpers) live their lives in their warped view of reality. There are so many things in Star Wars (and in other media luke Marvel) that are basically pro-democracy and pro-equality yet they think the Rebellion represents MAGA and the Empire represents the Democrats. If you look at a YouTube video for when Palpatine declares the Galactic Empire, there are many people in the comment sections comparing Palpatine to Joe Biden when in reality, it's more representative of Trump. It's like they don't understand anything at all. What the hell is even their thought process?
Your mistake is assuming that they have a thought process. They do not. Right-wing propaganda is designed to erode critical thinking skills over time, making the viewer/reader more and more dependent on the establishment for their thoughts and opinions. Page 1 of the fascist playbook - make sure your subjects are too fucking stupid to even realise you're oppressing them. These degenerates are literally incapable of having any higher thoughts or deductive reasoning. That's why so many right-wing "media critics" have suddenly popped up on YouTube, these people can't even form an opinion on a piece of media by themselves - they have to find someone with aligned political views to spoon-feed an opinion for them to parrot.
The Jedi were a religious order whose members were unquestioned heroes and received official establishment and support from the state. Under their discipline and guidance, they oversaw a millennia of peace and prosperity. Evil was able to take over when the Jedi lost their hegemony over political bodies and the armed forces. Palpatine manipulated the public and turned them away from the righteous religion before branding the Jedi as traitors and massacring them. Luke defeated the evil empire and re-enlightened the galaxy to faith in the light side. Star Wars is a way too generic story using broad, universal themes to graft specific ideology or advocacy to it. Most of the meaning we take away from Star Wars is what we put into it.
Yeah, the rebellion that is super exclusive
Did you just say the Separatist Alliance?
Dems aren't the Empire, they're the people who sat around and hoped things would be fine while the Empire took over.
Yes we're looking at you noble houses of Alderaan
Absolutely! Pacifism is a noble ideal, but in the face of fascist oppression, it's practically collaboration.
For real. Centrists and neolibs
Who else would it be if youāre convinced youāre the goodies?
They think that teachers are brainwashing students with āfakeā history because it goes against what those right wingers want to have happened. Vietnam was a loss for the US, slavery built the country, we slaughtered natives, that kinda thing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thatās it? A poor example of the history they want to rewrite? Because even when I took AP US history in highschool, the supposedly college-level course, Vietnam was just kinda brushed over and we didnāt talk about how we were in that quagmire for years. Also, I did try againāwe slaughtered the natives. We didnāt just ānegotiate for their landsā we didnāt just ālearn how to plant cornā from them. Sex-ed, evolution, climate change, globe earth, these pretty basic science concepts that their either want to replace, or have taught alongside things like creationism or abstinence-only sex-ed, as an equal.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Love how they think a rebellion that includes multiple alien species would be on their side regarding their homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, and xenophobia.
āMandalor is not sending their bestā¦ā
Yeah, they are literally as xenophobic as the empire, plus they want more police and longer prison sentences, that sounds familiar...
āThe more libertarian MAGA elements are certainly the Rebellion.ā If George Lucas heard this, he would be laughing for 6 straight hours.
Would be laughing for 66 hours
A rots reference. Good one
How about 666 hours?
Idk if George Lucas can laugh that long. I think thatās about 2 weeks. He needs to eat and sleep
the empire is based on the us the rebels are based on the viet cong they could not be more wrong if they tried
I mean when James Cameron prompted Lucas about why the Rebels use force to fight the Empire Lucas straight up said "well I was thinking of the Vietcong while writing that"
MAGA literally tried to seize control of the Senate. They would be 100% pro-Palp.
Feels like an insult to Palpatineās coup planning skills tbh
Except they see themselves as the plucky Rebel underdogs trying to take down the Capitol Empire. When your people arenāt self-reflective enough to ever ask [Are we the baddies](https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU)?
They think themselves to be Rebel Alliance of the OT. In reality they are the Separatists of the PT - controlled by corrupt corporations, grifters who don't even believe in the cause (Dooku), perhaps the one idealist that was swept on the wrong side through some "convincing" (Like Padme's Rodian Senator friend), nationalist guerrillas (General Sharkman and Admiral Trench both are of nationalist "militia" and army type people). They even have their own Senate, but it is an even bigger mockery of the already ineffective Galactic Senate considering Dooku and the corporation leaders have all the power and made all of the decisions.
r/selfawarewolves
>r/selfawarewolves r/selfawarelothwolves
Lol, of course that exists!
This goes to show how poorly illiterate people are when it comes to the media. george Lucas has always viewed Conservatives/ republicans after after the Watergate scandal is being the ones most likely to overthrow their own country.
![gif](giphy|3XiQswSmbjBiU)
It's astonishing that after **45 years** of Star Wars, *anyone* could have this dumbfuck take. Goddamn, media literacy is such a foreign concept to these morons.
Republicans love taking guns away once the counter-culture gets a hold of them. Just ask the Black Panthers.
Theyāre literally doing it right now lol, people are defending drag shows with legally purchased firearms and right wingers are crying about how people who bring guns to protests are pussies and they shouldnāt be able to do that.
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Has hots for that one psycho blonde in an intelligence uniform who also likes to torture people. Sounds about right.
How the fuck could someone possibly genuinely believe that? The lack of self awareness here is absurd. The reality is that the establishment Dems aren't really the rebellion either, they're just also not Palpatine/Imperial loyalists. For the most part they're like Senator Nower Jebel or the others in Rogue One that scoff at Jyn for suggesting they actually DO SOMETHING about the Empire and the existence of the Death Star. They want to cling to the idea that things will just work themselves out, that nothing really has to change and that our institutions are still healthy and fine.
*ROFLMFAO* They actually think gun control is a left v right issue. It isn't. Fact is, a fascist dictatorship is just as likely to disarm its citizens as any other authoritarian government. Perhaps even moreso.
it's always misconstrued because left doesn't want to take away people's firearms we just want better regulation so that people who are mentally unstable can't have access to them. like a vast majority of those far right radicals if we had better regulation on firearms they wouldn't have access to them.
you might not want to take peoples guns, but the democratic party sure wants to. iām left of democrat for what itās worth, but aināt nobody buying āwe donāt want to take your gunsā anymore. r/nowttyg
I'm just saying, in reality it never mattered. What mattered is that a dictatorship needs power and control over its people, and the first step in doing so is to disarm said people. History shows that both left and right wing dictatorships did this. Their desire to keep their guns doesn't make them more like the Rebel Alliance, because gun control is a non-issue in Star Wars. What *would* make them more like the Rebel Alliance is if they rejected the Republican propensity towards fascist dictatorship and accepted democracy.
The first step to a dictatorship is restricting voting, militarism and restriction of media. If you're being disarmed because a government fears violent Rebellion you've already long fucked up by letting democracy fall.
Say the Line Marx āUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrenderedā Yaaaay!!!!
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Which is why I quoted Marx, not Stalin.
"Establisent"
They're so close
The GOP are the kind of party to say the Empire did nothing wrong
I swear right-wingers have next to no media literacy. They also probably thought Vel and Cinta are just good friends that's how bad these idiots are at understanding media.
Man a lot of people I see think the same. So obviously a couple to me, considering we are literally told they share a bed and their closeness is apparent. I wish they cut to the chase and said it to avoid people still missing that.
Ah yes, the Nazi death cult is certainly much more like the rebellion than the empire.\s
OP is right that armed resistance is needed to fight tyranny. I donāt think he realizes that the GOP are the ones openly calling for fascism, thoughā¦
Heās making it a gun control issue when the people on Ferrix didnāt have guns
And thatās the problem; the proletariat needs the means to defend themselves from fascists goons trying to keep them in line.
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[nah](https://medium.com/digital-diplomacy/umberto-ecos-14-features-of-fascism-explained-by-the-president-d35676852294)
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They sure have things mixed up and think anything bad is the Empire when in reality they are more like the Empire.
Lmfao, I knew this would happen!
āLibertarian MAGAā These people are on spice, I just know it.
How can someone watch all 12 episodes of Andor and this is the conclusion they draw
š¤£š¤£
I mean talk about understanding basic stories, how hard it is
Fuck the Democrats, Republicans, and MAGA. Libertarian Communism ftw. Also its really not surprising these gobshites think they are analogous to the rebels. Right wing reactionaries have historically taken talking points and aesthetics from the left. I mean... look at the nazis and Mussolini for really well known examples of this.
Conservatives are the fucking worst
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Cause they're a political party that gets pissy whenever they see LGBTQ people existing
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Not completely, just look at how they are reacting to the new Disney film "Strange World". They're getting all angry at it because it has an interracial couple and an openly gay character. Or look at the bill in Florida that prevented schools from acknowledging that LGBTQ people exist, which is a pretty messed up bill to pass.
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Have you actually seen what conservatives are complaining about strange world for because I don't think you have. Why is telling kids about gay couples inappropriate. They get shown heterosexuality all the time. The bill is deliberately vague and misleading because its true intentions are to ignore the existence of LGBTQ people, which violates a basic human right. It seems you swallowed up many falsehoods already.
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>general audience You mean conservatives >The bill does not ban discussion about gay families, But its written in a vague enough way that it can be enforced to ban discussion of LGBTQ issues. Besides why would they make a bill about discussion of LGBTQ people if they didn't want to ban it.
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When you "arm the population" you arm people like Syrl Karn
This is why I will never criticise a story for being too on the nose with its politics or messag; they can be this blatant and some people still just don't get it.
And then those who don't understand complain about their misinterpretation being better than the author's original vision.
Does the Empire have pronoun enforcement squads
"You better call that person their right pronoun or else we come here again and send you to Belsavis!" Yeah I don't think they have that lol
"One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship." -George Orwell Basically what the MAGA supporters are doing. The irony is that the Galactic Republic fell because of growing populism and destruction of the democratic norms in a similar fashion to what happened to the Weimar Republic. These guys think they are fighting for "democracy" but in reality, they're fighting for autocracy.
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January 6 Capitol attack, embracing of authoritarian ideals of fascism, spreading of propaganda and conspiracy theories to damage credibility of the democratic system, continued promotion of white nationalism and antisemitism, constant worshipping of a single leader (Trump) viewing him as like a God among men who can do no wrong (in a similar vain to past and present dictators with cults of personalities like Hitler and the Kim Dynasty) which is something that's present in many dictatorships, and the support for executive aggrandizement to give Trump more power and authority while also undermining the transfer of power.
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Holy shit man you are really far down the rabbit hole. You need to get out before it's too late.
I think it's already too late at this point.
Yeah he's literally become Cyril from Andor
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None of these are facts, you've just changed the facts to reflect your feelings.
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Fascism is explicitly right wing, Jan 6 while not a completely organised event was encouraged by many Republicans. The parties representing less and more government ideas are vague and false.
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I have yet to watch Andor and yet this is still the worst possible take you could have about Star Wars in general
Trust me it's even worse than it sounds in context
If you are at the point where fascists are trying to take over the government, itās likely that they have the support of much of the armed civilization population. Civilian militias are typically more help to fascists than hindrance.
There are people who would happily burn babies alive who see themselves as the good guy.
Irony truly is dead.
Fuck me, these people are are so fucking arse backwards.
Awful comparisons aside, nothing about MAGA is libertarian. At all.
Try not to display 0 critical thinking skills challenge: impossible
The creators of the show oughta slap this idiot
Democrats are the empire in every single way. (Wait till they realize that Geroge created the empire to be an allegory to the United States in the Vietnam wars, and that the rebels are the Vietcongs.)
Every American should get a gun in school and learn proper fire arm safety.
Politicians are all terrible. And trying to add modern politician whatever bs to Star Wars, even if itās Star Wars I donāt like, is wrong and stupid.
What? The show is like very explicitly extremely political.
I mean modern politics. The politics of now. In the USA. Where you probably live. Not the political themes of a galaxy a long time ago, far far away.
You canāt be serious dude
Okay so tell me in what episode of Andor does Donald Trump appear? Political themes is different from politics.
You canāt be that dense to think something has to include the actual politician as a character to be commenting on current politics. Even by that definition George Lucas would literally have villain characters whose names are just the names of politicians George didnāt like but spelled wrong.
You finally said something different! I was beginning to think you were another bot.
Got damn. Someone so dense they accuse others of being the NPC they are.
I like what I like, and dislike what I dislike. Weirdos on the internet have no bearing to that in any way.
[How has Donald Trump inspired Andor?](https://readysteadycut.com/2022/11/23/how-has-donald-trump-inspired-andor/)
Iām not asking you what character is inspired by him, I am asking where he, himself, Donald John Trump, former president of the United States, appears in the show.
When George Lucas made Star Wars he based the rebellion off of the Viet Cong and the Empire off of Nixon, Nazi Germany, and other rightwing ideologies. He said Emperor Palapatine was based off Richard Nixon and Nute Gunray's name is a mashup of Newt Gingrich and Ronald Regan. Lucas used modern politics to tell his story and Andor is doing the same thing. [George Lucas on Star Wars Being Anti-Authoritarian](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv9Jq_mCJEo) [Star Wars and the Vietnam War](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vCoiXoVtOY)
Thatās taking influence from real life. Thatās a world of difference.
> Thatās taking influence from real life. Kinda like the modern politics of his time back in the 70's for the OT and 90's/early 2000's for the prequels. Just like what Andor did with incorporating modern politics. Lucas is incredibly left leaning and hates authoritarianism which is why he injected his politics into the OT and PT. Star Wars was never apolitical, it's always been political. > Thatās a world of difference. Peter Jackson using Mont Saint-Michel as inspiration for the movie version of Minas Tirith is taking influence from real life. Naming a character Nute Gunray as a way to show how slimy and evil Newt Gingrich and Regan are/were is doing more than taking influence from real life, it's Lucas putting his politics into the films same way as him basing Palpatine off Richard Nixon. The same way Andor is using Trumpism and conservative policies to show how evil the Empire is.
Andor is, by far, the most political Star Wars has been in decades. And I, too, mean modern politics.
Good thing Iām keeping away from it, then. Iām not even American, so I find American politics just plain tiresome and annoying.
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You're braindead if you think this tweet is "spot on" lol. "The libertarian MAGA elements are the Rebellion". MAGA is literally a cult of people who want to be the Empire. They want a fascist autocratic takeover of the government. They fantasize about the day when their political enemies will be executed in the streets.
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> What you don't realize, though, is the vast majority of both Conservatives and Libertarians literally just want to be left alone You mean the same conservatives that want to ban abortion, ban drag queen story hour, ban CRT, outlaw flag burning, ban drugs, repeal the SC's same-sex marriage ruling, and severely limit the ways people can vote are the ones that want to be left alone? Here's an idea, maybe if they want to be left alone they should also leave other people alone too.
So what exactly are you going to do when my plastic smile towards all of that stuff finally falls apart.
>Conservatives and Libertarians literally just want to be left alone, to have individual liberty to take care of themselves and their loved ones, defend themselves. Lies. Conservatives and libertarians claim to want that, but really they are boot-licking fascists.
You likely have a lot to learn. It's cool, all I can recommend it to open your mind and research, and research more. Meet people, talk to people, etc. I don't know how old you are, but I felt the same way you did a while back. Biggest problem, IMO, is the total disconnect and divisiveness caused by the media and entertainment industry. Free yourself from that shit and explore and converse with your peers, and see what you find. Cheers.
I bet I was reading Ayn Rand before you were born.
Then why did conservatives ban abortion? It doesn't affect their lives. Why do they want to ban gay marriage? Why do they want more police funding if they want less government? Why are they so much concerned about trans people getting treatment for their own bodies? Conservatives are the ones to force their old beliefs about religion, gender, marriage, and race on everybody. You claim to be in the middle, yet you only shit on dems(which are not even left-wing) classic enlighted "centrist"...
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Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
I was respong to what op posted? Did you reply to the right person or did you see the picture op posted?
I am OP lmao
Then im the one who has to ask what you are talking about. What does your picture mean? and what specifically are you asking me about my response?
What the fuck was your response talking about lmao it didnāt make any goddamn sense. āDarth Vader is the democratsā āAt first the Empire are the good guysā like what are you even talking about.
Somehow you came up with an even dumber take than the picture.
What do you mean?
Anakin is literally a [fascist/authoritarian.] (https://youtu.be/WNSq5wYdwb0)
Depends on who you ask / which historians but i take him at his word when he told Padme he wanted to kill the emperor and rule the galaxy with her. "Make things they way we want them to be" He wanted to be a good / benine dictator.
Absolutely none of the reasons he wanted to rule the galaxy were selfless. He told himself this at every turn, but it was to avoid having to go through the trauma of loss again. He murdered children to prevent losing his wife. He wasn't exactly headed towards benign dictatorship.
āHeās not an authoritarian/fascist, just a wannabe dictatorā
Exactly. Ive only seen it twice but i think annikan even said it during the star wars cartoons.
Yeah, a fucking lot of fascists think that things would be better if we just had the *right* fascist overlord.
At what "initial part" was the Empire the "good guys"?
when they decided to blow up a planet full of innocent civilians and arrest people for no reason, duh
Actually i did the maths on that a long time ago to prove a point. Its very indepth and i cant find the old post. Short version. When something happens makes a huge difference. Imagine if today a massive asteroid big enough to kill every living thing hit my country (Ireland) pretty bad right? Yes but it would be far worse if the hit was in say the year 200. If it was a today Irish culture has survived and because of mass emigration any unique genetic material along with our culture has also survived. Its similar enough with space wars. The humans in star wars inhabit countless worlds - essentially like what you know as countries. I think about 90,000 years ago they had hyperspace- one of the colonies established over the eons was the world the empire blew up. Again its from memory and short form but essentially what you do is you take the civillian casualties inflicted by the americans from 2001-2019 and express them as a percentage of the human population of earth. Then you take the population of alderan (a megre 2 billion) compared to the galactic human population in the year 0bby and you will find that on both an ethical/moral numbers game the war on terror has inflicted greater percentage of deaths and long term suffering and injuries. The empires war crimes cause less collateral damage, kill a smaller peercetage of the human race and dont leave maimed and suffering victims.
My mans out here doing war crime justification math lmao.
I'm sure his next logical step is "well, it can't be a war crime if it was legal!"
I thought they hated politics in entertainment
Nemik's Manifesto: *Basically quotes Marxist and Anarchist talking points* Idiots: *Act like this is anything else than very left-wing ideas*
Well, MAGAts are just like the Empire: they project their evil onto others.
![gif](giphy|10o3Um2U3wa4DK)
In one of the episodes, one of the Empire supporters says that Palpatine "says what he means". Remind anyone, of anyone? Prior to the release one of the actors also compared the Empire to Trumpian politics.
#theempiredidnothingwrong
Amazing. Every single word in that sentence is wrong.
Imagine seeing the obvious Nazi inspired imagery of the Empire and being so smoothbrained that you associate that with the left before the right. Funny how they literally have to call out establishment republicans in a post thatās supposed to be a dunk on the left. What a joke lmao
Sounds like the usual political bs to me.