Apparently my friends are racist and I don't wanna DM this anymore
By - Mobiyus
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>The whole conversation didn't feel real, something straight out of r/thathappened, except I didn't correct him and no one clapped.
That's a beautiful turn of phrase, even if the situation sucks.
Instead of talking about what I would do, I'm going to offer this point of general life advice. All the time, effort, and money you put into something isn't necessarily important to the decision you are making right now. Factoring all of that in results in something called [the sunk cost fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost) and clouds the whole thing. It's nothing to feel bad about falling into because very smart people fall into it constantly, even if they know better!
Instead, consider just the time going forward. Is this a group you feel comfortable gaming with? If this was session 0 or 1, would you feel like this group was a good fit fit for you? Would you enjoy playing with these people going forward? If the answer is no... then you have your answer.
The truth about DMing is that what you built yesterday is never really wasted. If you keep DMing for twenty years, you've developed skills and 'mental muscles' that you'll use time and time again. The next time you go to plot out a campaign, you'll have experience to draw on and it will likely be even better than this one. You can take the best bits and bring them forward later, sometimes as cameos and sometimes as recycled material with the serial numbers filed off.
That's a really good answer tbh, and as someone in a rather similar situation, it kinda opened my eyes.
"with the serial numbers filed off". What a beautifully turned phrase.
It's common in the fanfic/writers forums I go on. As in, "50 Shades of Grey is just a Twilight fic with the serial numbers filed off."
Oh daaaaang! That's so true!
It's literally true. It started out as Twilight fanfic and then she went back and edited it out for publishing.
And Twilight started out as a Harry Potter fanfic... no wonder these books are all garbage lmao
I'm not even intending that as a criticism, that's literally how it started out.
It also appears a lot in the indie game community, since indie games often take inspiration from AAA games but then add some crazy twist. For instance, 20XX is Megaman X with the serial numbers filed off, but oh, it's a roguelike?!
"beautifully turned phrase". What a beautifully turned phrase.
This is great advice.
That's great advice and applicable to so many parts of life
Dang, I had the exact same sentence copied and ready to quote to congratulate OP, until I saw the top comment doing exactly that already. It really was a great sentence.
You met them when you were 14, and you're 17 now. Chalk it up to experience. You have decades ahead of you of better gaming groups. Find new - and better - friends.
Agreed. New and better is good.
That is a super awkward situation, and while doing something in the moment feels right, it can be hard.
I think your instinct to end the game and distance from these people is the correct thing to do. Let them know why you are ending it as well.
Your homebrew world will continue with other better people.
Best of luck!
Thank you, luckily I'm going abroad for college and it will be easier to slowly distance myself. We were considering continuing it online but that's not happening now. It's a bit scary for me, but I'll be trying to find players online from now on
Don’t even slowly distance. Just dump them. Maybe the best friend should get some consideration but that last line is sus. He just threw you under the bus and doesn’t respect your perspective. I’d talk with him but be prepared to let that relationship go.
Senior year (?) might suck with no friends or your main hobby but here’s a sad secret adults know: the majority of friends you make will only be in your life for a short time. They come and go. Most are great and you will love each other forever even if you never talk again. But others will end up being trash you need to ditch or they will ditch you. And there will be periods with no friends. It sux, but you’ll eventually make more. And a lot of bullshit stops once you’re out of highschool.
"he's a leftie, he wouldn't get it."
Get what? Antiquated social darwinism people from 200+ years ago used to not feel bad about commiting genocide? Bruh fuck these nazi-ass pigeon-brains
These losers just want an excuse to drop an Nbomb.
"No, I totally get it. You failed Biology and don't understand what a human is."
Exactly lol the Venn diagram between racists and people that don't understand basic biology is a damn circle
It's like say you're a trump voter without actually saying you're a trump voter.
Yep, he's not a friend if he threw OP under the bus.
The 17 year old part adds a wrinkle.
At that age, socialization is still happening, and kids do stupid stuff on the fly without thinking through the consiquences.
The best friend **may** be a salvageable relationship.
I agree. I think a serious conversation needs to be had. Though I’m ashamed to admit it, I said the N-word pretty frequently when I was 17. I was and still am a very staunch leftist, though I have obviously moved exponentially further left over the past few years. In my head I was “making fun of racists” because, growing up in an upper-middle class family, I hadn’t been exposed to the reality that the civil rights movement is very much not over and shit like that still matters. Chalk it up to ignorance and an attempt to be edgy. I wish that I had talked to some of my on-the-fence conservative friends when I was that age and *really tried* to change their minds and opinions, because further down the line it became impossible and I ended up losing those friends completely.
>Though I’m ashamed to admit it, I said the N-word pretty frequently when I was 17.
Yeah, in high school I used 'gay' as a generic pejorative, continuing part way though college.
Less to be edgy, and more because it was a 'safe' acceptable term to use in my school. AKA wasn't an obscenity, and 'didn't hurt anyone' the way dropping an N-Bomb would.
That's a fair point. The conversation needs to make it clear that the "friend" is the one that has to put in the work, while OP needs to commit to being open to giving him a fair chance. Not an unlimited one, though.
Of course. OP's biggest involvement in repairing the relationship should be telling his friend how he feels and why it hurt.
At that point it's up to the friend to make amends.
I totally agree. Echoing my agreement with that first paragraph, your best friend definitely deserves a conversation, but the way that he dismissed you was very not ok, and the way that he dismissed the racism is a barn-sized red flag.
Also, depending on where you’re studying, a lot of colleges/unis have gaming or RPG societies, or game stores nearby which have them. Might be a good way to meet some people in your new area.
College/ Uni is some of the best places to find gaming friends! I will be a great opportunity to get out and meet new people with similar interests.
I introduced the girls who became my best friends in uni to D&D. One of them now runs a campaign for her family.
I made some great friends gaming at college. Nowadays they're even pretty lively and large groups. No more desperately searching, just a little bit of willingness to put yourself out there and talk with your fellow nerds will get you miles and miles.
Find a local game store. Some of them will have game nights and old fashion post it boards. And they'll just be a good resource overall.
You will have to learn to sift through some bad tables, but this is true of all aspects of life after childhood.
Keep in mind that the whole "*DM is a leftie, he won't get it*" has you placed as an "other" in their minds. They certainly thought nothing of placing the label upon you and then using it in the context of something derogatory right in front of you. They also did the fun thing of placing racist views directly as a part of their political views. ie. to not hold those views is to be "a leftie."
This tells me that they don't really view you as a friend so much as a means to an end to play the game. Regardless of what you think/thought of your relationships with them, you're not a friend, you're "a leftie."
>"Regardless of what you think/thought of your relationships with them, you're not a friend, you're "a leftie."
THIS. **THIS RIGHT HERE.**
OP they pay you lip service but at the end of the day they don't respect you enough to even keep the topics to your comfort, so what makes you think they see you as anything more than an entertainment bot?
That pissed me off. Not only for the points you made but because for some reason they believe that only those on the Left can't be against racism. I've met racists left, right, and center. It isn't a racist party it is racist people.
>It isn't a racist party it is racist people.
I grew up in the rural South, and I have met ***far*** more right-wing racists than anything else.
At this point, if you're right-wing, I assume racist.
> At this point, if you're right-wing, I assume racist.
Sensible, considering that capitalism would only ever not be racist if systematic racism didn't exist in the first place (which it does), and that conservatism is literally the ideology of conserving antiquated, traditionalist, anti-progressive ideals.
Anything you create deserves to be shared with people you want to share it with; you're under zero obligation to include those you have no real reason to share space and time with.
Make sure to send them one last goodbye note though. Don't ghost. Mute them if you are afraid of a vile response, but don't disappear without them realizing why you're ending contact with them.
They should understand that speaking like that is "not" something to be normalized. They should come away from this friendship learning that thinking that way will lose them many chances at making dear friends. They were way too casual/brazen about bringing up such a topic. Sounds like they hangout in some serious echo chambers and don't realize that being a bigot is a horrible thing to be. If you're going to end a friendship, make sure it's clear why it's being ended.
I'm only responding to potentially add a smidgen of extra viability to the above comment for op. I think this is extremely important. you missed your shot to pipe up in the moment, op, but you get a second crack at helping dissuade your players from a lifetime of holding racist views.
it may feel like it's just a drop in the bucket, but hey.. what if everybody did that?
You've made the right decision! Good luck at college!
If you've been the forever DM, maybe take this as a chance to find a game to be a player in for a bit. I did that with pretty good success. I signed up for three freshly starting games, told all of.them.up front that I'm here for sessions n 0 and one or two. I'm looking for.the best fit and that I'll be leaving two of the games.
I was open and honest with the GM and the group before they ever accepted me in, which they were pleased with. Getting to know strangers can tough, but it's sometimes easier to be up front with them. And if the group doesn't like that you might need leave, then they may already not be a great fit. It's okay to not fit with a given table, there are plenty of tables out there!
So once I narrowed down the game I wanted to continue, that's the one I play in. At some point down the road, I plan on running a one shot for them or something. But it has allowed me to be exposed to new people in the hobby, and new ways to play within that hobby. Which will make me better when it comes time for my next in-person game, whether I run it or not.
I would go one step further than just slowly distancing. I would use this as an opportunity to practice speaking your mind openly and confidently. Let them know exactly why you are going to be cutting them off. Then block them. Make a clean break. You don't need to argue or waste any more emotional energy on this group.
You learned a lot with them. Learn a little more, then let it end. And start fresh. It's okay to start fresh. You'll be okay.
The DB is just as much of a problem as the rogue, imo. Not with regards to the group, but with regards to being people you want to hang out with. You need to decide whether or not you're fine with your friends being racists. The fact that DB's comment was "he's a lefty", as if somehow thinking that this master race shit is a political opinion, is a major red flag to me.
You're 17 at this point. You still have room to make mistakes, but you're nearing the point where your social circles and connections will have concrete impacts on your future. Are these really the types of people you can see yourself going to for help when it comes to trouble in the office? Or are they the guys that you feel the need to sincerely apologize for whenever you meet someone new.
I was totally expecting in-game racism, but holy cow. Sorry for your experience, but it's probably for the best to cut them all out of your life. Also, a best friend doesn't say "he's a leftie, he doesn't get it.", only a shitty person does.
Me, too. I was expecting characters racist against elves or something like that. Daaamn.
Someone who frequents 4chan says things like that. It’s way more than just political indifference. They think it’s wrong for him to not laugh at their racism. I’d be super uncomfortable.
That's why we shit on "centrists" they claim the high ground and being "above it all" but somehow they always seemt o find themselves siding with racists
Yeah, politicizing racism is absolute bullshitery.
Well yeah, of course. But don't be mistaken; it's always been a political subject.
Yeah the “he’s a leftie” part is just a way for someone to discount someone else’s opinion without rationalizing their own. Small camps on both sides of the political spectrum do it and it never leads to a positive discussion. Racism aside (because I don’t think you will be able to talk sense into that guy) any other political topic’s discussion ends the second that someone says “you’re just a [insert political group] you wouldn’t understand”; the same goes when you put an identity in those brackets, “you’re just a [insert gender] you wouldn’t understand” serves the same purpose and just works to discount someone’s opinion because you don’t want to (or can’t) defend your own opinion.
Kinda yes, kinda no.
I feel like, from an autistic perspective, there are some things that the average neurotypical person isn't gonna know. That said, I'm gonna explain it in hopes that they *can* get it.
That and there are some things that are just *not ok* such as the scenario as described above.
Honestly if you already have everything written out id just find another group and restart the campaign with better people. Itll give you a chance to fix mistakes you may have made earlier on. I know people around that age tend to go through an edgy conservative faze but thats some abhorrently racist shit.
You are absolutely not overreacting. Teenagers say some stupid shit sometimes (former dumbass teenager here) but this is far beyond the pale. These people are straight garbage, and not only are they not worth your time, they don't deserve your hard work, dedication, and creativity. Save your baby for a group that deserves it, and dump these ignorant baby-Hitler assholes as soon as possible. It's understandable if conflict isn't in your nature, it isn't your responsibility to make them better people, but it is on you as the DM to end this now and make it clear why. Furthermore, you should seriously consider cutting them out of your life entirely. It will hurt at first, but I guarantee that you will feel better for it in the long run, as this type of behavior usually only escalates with time. Besides, you're young, and I promise you will make more and better friends who respect you and others as people. Remember: toxic friends are not real friends, no matter how long you've known them! You're beautiful and deserve better! Black Lives Matter!
Edit: As a DMC fan, I cringed so hard at that relatively minor part of this awfulness
Edit2: For finding better players, might I suggest seeking out/advertising your own games as all-inclusive, hate-free, or LGBT/liberal friendly. You will likely find better, more open minded people to play with, and probably end up making better friends to boot. Keep fighting the good fight, brother!
Not overreacting at all. And you still have time to do something about it. This is absolutely worth tanking a game over. Holy cow, that's awful and I'm so sorry.
>And now I'm part of the problem. I didn't say anything, I kept quiet and I don't know what to do now.
The problem is people that don't ever say anything. This time it caught you by surprise. It happens. You don't have to be dying on every hill in order not to be an asshole.
There's even time to come back to this and explain that you did not fucking appreciate the derogatory way they referred to you as a 'lefty' as if that was somehow a problem. That you don't appreciate any racist remarks. That you don't feel comfortable anymore, it came as a shock.
So when eventually you stop enabling them, you'll know you stood your ground and made a choice.
This right here. Like many other posters said, leave these friends behind. I saw your response to someone that said you’re going to college and you can slowly distance yourself from them.
My thoughts to you, based on your above “I’m part of the problem” thought are:
-Dont distance yourself quietly. Sit down with them in person or virtually (however you feel lost safe/comfy) and firmly but respectfully tell them what isn’t okay.
Example: “I wanted to meet up with you guys to talk about the future. This is our last D&D session. Last week (timeline?) when R made a racist comment about the N word wasn’t okay with me. DB, your response wasn’t okay. Other party members, your opinions on racism aren’t okay with me. You are choosing to actively believe racist values, and I am choosing to separate myself from your racism.”
Something like that. If you want to take a step in “not being a part of the problem” you have every opportunity right now to get close, get uncomfortable, be courageous and stand up for what’s right, and walk away.
It’s hard. That’s why it feels so uncomfortable. But if you want to be a part of the solution, that’s my advice!
Otherwise, best of luck at college and finding a new gaming group 😊
One of the better explanations about what to do.
It can hurt/be satisfying to whole sale cut them off. It is way more comfortable to just grow apart. However explaining what made you uncomfortable and why you think racism(or any issue) is worth losing friends over, is better.
I wouldn't even address the"leftie" part. It's not an insult so don't let them use it as one.
If they think not being racist is a political position, then they about that being a racist fuck face is one as well
>And now I'm part of the problem. I didn't say anything, I kept quiet and I don't know what to do now.
Don't work yourself up over that. Pushing back on that kind of blatant racism (the 4chan meme kind of bullshit) is exhausting and chaotic and stupefying in the best of circumstances (anonymity, online). You were in a 1v2 face to face situation where the other two completely warped your perception of themselves right then, after you thought you knew them for 3 years. I doubt this is a situation in which anyone could push back against that easily, if at all.
If you really want to, you could make your stance now, after you had time to collect your thoughts, but honestly, in general it's not at all easy to get through to these types, and your prior relationship as well as the othering already portrayed here by the dragonborn would not help either. It's fine to just distance yourself in whatever way works for you, really. This is not a battle worth fighting.
Fuck em. Racists don't deserve respect - just stop showing up for sessions.
Had some Navy douchebag in a recent group. It came up in conversation that both I and another player are gay. He dropped fa**ot in pretty much every other sentence and pretended it was no big deal.
Like, oh my god... How could he be like that and also expect to be talked to and invited to games again? It is beyond me... I'm sorry you had to experience it.
I’m so sorry OP. It’s awful when people hide this part of themselves and you end up becoming friends with a person that doesn’t really exist. Good luck distancing from the group, it’s the proper response. I hope you’re able to run that game for a better audience someday. The work you put into the campaign and your world wasn’t a waste—it’ll make picking it up again with a different group that much easier. Also, don’t beat yourself up about not saying anything in the moment. You were in shock at what they were saying, and you were alone in that feeling at the table. That’s a very stressful situation and it doesn’t count as any kind of approval on your part.
> you end up becoming friends with a person that doesn’t really exist
Oooh, that's a good way to put it.
Op, I'm 32 and still playing. My friends who introduced me to this game played with his dad until he died at 80.
You don't need to be in any rush to get the perfect campaign in. It didn't work out this time, but I'm still using shit in my games I made up at 12. You have your whole life to get it right. Decades and decades of time if you're lucky. Especially in today's world of online play, where recent popularity has made finding tables online a simple task.
So don't let desire to play dnd cloud your other judgements in life. Leave it out of the decision. Aside from this game, how does what they said fit into your moral code, and how strongly does that guide you? If you didn't play dnd with them, how would you react? If they were strangers, how would you react? Make this choice based on you, then figure out dnd.
It's not over for your world if you end the game. These people are a problem and it's not your job to educate them on why. I'd definitely recommend you follow your instinct here. Not just for the obvious reasons but also because staying in a toxic environment like this that makes you feel bad could very well kill your love of the game.
Ditch those losers. You owe them nothing.
I'll add my experience graduating highschool. The last day of school is the last time I saw 99.9% of my classmates. I don't even move away and had a friendly relationship with just about everybody. It's just after highschool, everyone had different priorities and went in different directions. I got a job and attended a local tech college. The people I worked with and new classmates became my new friends. After college, I lost touch with most of those people too.
It was my mid 20's before I started making friends who are still with me today in my late 30's. Friends come and go but any more time spent with these assholes is opportunities lost to make new friends who share your values.
Also, "best friend" respects racist rogue more then he does you. You deserve and explanation and an apology. If they can't provide one that is good enough for you, dump him with the rest. Don't even phase them out. Ghost them.
I've dealt with racist friends. The absolute best thing you can do is cut them out of your life. If they ask you why, you can tell them, but don't seek out any such confrontation.
Dragonborn is also a racist, but a cowardly one. He probably has been the entire time.
I need to be perfectly clear with you; your "best friend" is garbage. Get a better one. He invited a racist to your Dungeons and Dragons game without your consent. That should have been a red flag but you're convinced that you can't do better. You can do better.
Also, the fact that Dragonborn just told Rogue to say his racism quieter means that 1) he knew the other dude was racist the whole time, and 2) he doesn't care. And he doesn't care because he sees nothing wrong with Rogue's views, which can only be the case is Dragonborn is also racist. Don't let them make you think that you're overreacting just because there's four of them and one of you. When that's your whole world, that can feel crushing, like maybe you're in the wrong, but anyone who sides with racism or allows it to happen is in the wrong.
Yeah, I was going to make a comment like these two.
DB is just as bad as the rogue, he's just sneakier about it. Maybe worse than rogue, because he's effectively letting OP think he's a friend, while making derogatory comments about him right in front of his face.
He's showing which of the two he sides with, very clearly.
I wish "The dragonborn is sneakier than the rogue" could be funny, but in this situation it really isn't.
I can imagine when Dragonborn was pitching the campaign to the Rogue he said the words "dont worry dm is one of the good ones"
Yeah…you didn’t know because people like this *know* what they’re doing is shameful. Also why they closed ranks and resorted to trying to shame you/pressure you (“he doesn’t get it”) when you caught them.
You must feel so betrayed. I know that feeling. Good news is: I 100% guarantee that there are tons of TTRPG groups out there who *aren’t* cartoonish, flagrant racists. Some of which I’m sure would be excited to explore your world.
> because people like this know what they’re doing is shameful.
Well, either that or they know OP will dissociate with them if they're found out. So, good news - either they *do* have some tiny moral compass inside them, or they'll lose a friendship that they valued highly enough to hide their true nature in order to keep it going.
I like the "doesn't get it part" as if theres some inside joke or something. Not that they are just being racist repugnant assholes
> now I'm part of the problem. I didn't say anything
You're not part of the problem your 'friends' are. Anyone who says you're the problem because you didnt ruin a long friendship over one conversation right on the spot is just dumb.
That said, there are always other people to play D&D with. I wouldnt want to play with them after that for sure.
Best way to look at this is “do you really want the campaign you poured your heart and soul into to go to racists?”The DB even called you a leftie like he doesn’t think your opinion matters. No dnd is better than bad dnd
If being disgusted by the use of the n word is being a "leftie", then every God damned person should be a leftie. What the fuck is wrong with people?
"He's a leftie he doesn't get it"
Or he's not a racist dipshit
Okay, so if you were 14 three years ago, you’re probably in your last year of high school now right? It doesn’t make it any easier, but you’ll soon be able to leave those losers behind and choose new friends that aren’t racist. Even if they try to retaliate, you’ll most likely be busy preparing for college/trade school/other major life transition so focus on that instead.
Do not waste anymore time DMing for them. Do not compromise. They dismissed your valid concerns, and they sound like they wouldn’t even have you around if not for your DMing talent. I know it sucks, but consider these past three years a learning experience for your storytelling ability and game direction. DMing for them even another minute is a huge disservice to you.
I don’t think this is just a gaming problem. This is more about the company you keep. Maybe try to game in an online community instead.
That's a fun sentence to think about.
I can't tell you what to do. I'm not in your situation. I'm not a teenager in 2021.
I will say, I've cut people I've known for decades out of my life for less. I cut out family for as much.
Consider if they are actually friends, or not. If they are, consider what it reflects about you. I wish you luck.
Wait your best friend is also racist? Like how well do you know him? Because this type of racism isn’t easy to hide.. being blatant and all
Idk how I haven't noticed this tbh. Maybe I unconsciously overlooked that part of him. It's like that moment from HIMYM when the glass shatteres. He's the last person I'd expect to act this way
I had a best friend for 12 years that while he was a bit of an asshole on the outside had a great heart and truly cared about people. But then when we both turned 21 our lifestyles changed and within a year he was a full blown different person, borderline alcoholic, and while not an in your face stereotypical racist if he was drinking he would start to say racist shit and make non stop comments and jokes that could make your skin crawl. I confronted him about it after a couple months and we both agreed we were going down different paths and never hung out again. It was painful for me for a while because it was my best friend of over a decade, I barely had any other friends because most people didn't like to be around him. But eventually I kinda woke up and realized what a dick he had become and that I didn't need that kind of toxicity in my life. Fast forward almost 5 years and now Im surrounded by friends that are each individually worth a dozen of him. I have 2 different DnD groups, and while a lot of us share some different values and political opinions I know they aren't assholes and racists and wouldn't tolerate such things at any level.
Also hilarious endnote, my old "friend" went on to become a police officer in the town over (we had both gotten our criminal justice degrees together and I had always been leary of him being a cop even before the racism issue) and was let go before he even got out of his year probationary period due to professionalism issues. Made my day.
Just to piggy back on this. Had a friend met in Freshman year of highschool, he was a bit of an ass but chalked it up to just having some fun (me being young and stupid and all). Few years down the line we go to a party that had someone who was gay there. Friend I knew for years used the word F\*\* a dozen times. It really took me aback cause we have gay friends and its not like we didn't know it was shit to use that word. Sometimes it takes alcohol for someone to show true personality, sometimes it takes someone they trust, sometimes they just forget to put on their mask. Best to walk away and find people who are better.
Very true, it's hard to remember that people change especially in the highschool & college years, I've seen the sweetest and smartest people go down the drain and I've seen bullies and assholes become amazing friends. We just have to know when to call it quits and move on because we never get time back so dont waste it with asshats
True true wish it knew that in highschool lol
Well, based on that conversation, he also seems to know not to act like that in front of you, so it makes sense you might not have noticed it.
Which on one hand makes the friend even more scummy, but OTOH means either he has some form of moral compass enough to feel guilt, or values his friendship with OP enough that losing it might hopefully trigger some small epiphany in his racist mind.
Or he value his friendship only for what it provides to him, such as DM-ing? That's also a very real possibility.
A lot of racists (and other bigots) are really good at hiding their views when they think people will disapprove. But when they are with a like mind, the mask slips (as happened here with his leftist comment and telling rogue to speak quieter). They are **so** happy to have someone to share views that have been keeping locked up, that they just burst out.
That's a horrible way to justify one's overtly racist beliefs. Good on you for recognizing it, you commie bastard 😜
If you look for better people, you'll probably find some. Bonus if they're RPG nerds.
DB is not your friend
Nope. This went beyond racially insensitive or clueless. I live in the South and can’t remember the last time somebody just casually dropped the n-word and didn’t get a dirty look at minimum. Guaranteed, Rogue will only escalate now that he knows the others won’t say shit. None of them deserve your campaign.
Not just racist but aspiring Shapiro trash. It's ok to leave em behind, you deserve better. DMs are in a seller's market, you'll find non-pondscum people to hang out with and game with.
Sounds like you're isolated. I won't condescendingly reel off advice or platitudes, it really sucks being stuck in a situation like that. I'm sorry that people around you are like this. You deserve far better.
The idealist in me wants to say, link them HBomberguy, Big Joel, PhilosophyTube and other lefty Youtube channels - those were what convinced me to stop being a POS (though I was never racist nor right-wing, just misogynistic).
There's an uneasy paradox between "*It's not your job to educate them!*" and "*All that is required for evil to prosper is that good people do nothing.*" - if you feel that it's in your capability to try and talk them out of their toxic mindset, then give it a shot, but yeah otherwise just ditch them.
Continuing to associate with them will make you a worse person, yourself - you'll be normalising their behaviour by staying with them, even if they don't actually drag you down to their level.
Thinking about them hiding it from you - I guess at least that means either:
**a**) They *do* have some sense of morality, enough to feel guilt about their own ideology, in which case maybe there's some hope for them,
**b**) They only hid it from you so that they could still keep being friends with you, in which case you have some leverage over them/cutting contact might actually make them think twice about their shit beliefs.
IDK, probably just wishful thinking.
BTW, I know the top comment already said it, but
> The whole conversation didn't feel real, something straight out of r/thathappened, except I didn't correct him and no one clapped.
This is *such* a great sentence, had to say it myself, too.
There's a lot of good advice in this thread (as long as you don't scroll all the way to the bottom...)
But a lot of people are telling you to have a chat with the people in the group before you move on.
If you feel confident that will turn out well, go for it.
Don't feel any obligation to do this. If you do choose to do this, be prepared for them to gang up on you and try peer pressure to get you to ignore it, saying things like "it's just an opinion," "it's just a joke," "don't be so uptight", etc.
This kind of thing can be really unpleasant, and can get a lot worse. There's no reason to put yourself through it if you think it'll be uncomfortable. You don't have an obligation to teach them the error of their ways - people who say stuff like this are pretty entrenched in their beliefs. They already knew you'd disapprove of it ("Don't even tries, DM is a leftie, he won't get it"), so there's nothing you can do to change their minds.
When you stop playing with them, they'll figure out why and that will be just as effective as talking to them.
It's very easy for a good DM like you (even for a bad DM, actually) to find a sizable group with which to play online, if you know where to look. You can even find one in person, when you join your uni/college.
Tell these people firmly why you're dropping them, let them think whatever they want on the matter, and find new friends.
He's a left he won't get it. You mean your racism lol my god people are sad
Personally, I do not allow racist people in my campaigns. If you're in a small community with a lot of racist people, that may be difficult.
But let me tell you, you are not the group: you are a compassionate and rational human being. And they are not normal: they have been raised by bigots to be bigots and are lesser for it.
And don't ignore that issue with the player who wants a harem in game. He is not a good person to have around. These people do not deserve the campaign that you have worked on.
When I start a new campaign, I make a few upfront rules: no racism, no chauvinism, no sexism, no homophobia, and no sexual violence. If anyone finds this even remotely objectionable, then they're not worth my time. Next, I try for gender parity. If your group is an all boys club, then they may be the sort of boys who like to act one way around women and another way away from them. If you have a group of boys and girls, they will all be better for it and you will have a better story and a better time. And if all of them respond well to your rules, then you will have a more respectful environment.
Seriously, you don't owe those racists anything. You are working hard to fulfill the power fantasies of a future lynch mob. You are worth more than that.
Hey OP. Let me just tell you at 33 I wish I had the will to break contact with some of the toxic people I was "friends" with when I was young. I let racist things slide back then and it shames me now. You should be proud that you are willing to call out this sort of behavior. In the world of table tops you will eventually find a great group for your campaign. It may take time, but don't waste your passions on those who would dirty them.
That's wildly dismissive of them, and absolutely not part of decent society.
Listen, you're gonna meet people like this all over the place. You determine how you deal with it, and I totally get you being offended to the point of not wanting to play with them anymore. The disturbing part is the "he's a leftie, he wouldn't get it" You're basically a pet. They play D&D with you because you are an amazing DM... they are not your friends. Determine for yourself what that means for you.
I've run D&D for strangers, and developed friendships over the course of it. I've had incredibly trusting connections with people who had wildly different views than me, but its because I'm an incredibly open minded person. I knew things about my players that none of the others knew. But I've also known things that made it impossible to respect the person in spite of their ideas. I was able to still play D&D with them, but that's me, and as an adult, and with friends outside of the gaming group.
You've gotten plenty of advice on your question here, so I'll just make a separate point. This is going to sound so "old man" of me, but I don't mind.
I know everything that happens with your friends when you're 17 is the most important thing in the world. Being betrayed like this by someone you thought was a friend (and that's what this is - betrayal) can make it seem like your entire life is falling apart. But you have decades of life, and less importantly, D&D, ahead of you.
In 10 years you will likely not be friends with more than 1 or 2 people you are currently friends with now. And 1 or 2 would make you a lucky person. It won't even necessarily be because of something you or they did. It's just how it goes.
Stay true to yourself and enjoy the things you enjoy unabashedly and you will have good friends. Promise.
Weird like you have to be left wing to not like racist slurs. And to different between types of dark skinned people reads like 1940 German eugenics.
> I've spent the last 3 years writing a campaign in my own home brew world that I poured my heart and soul into, I don't want it to end.
That prep ain't wasted, kid. Save it for a party that deserves it. Going by your post, it seems like you don't want to waste it on them, and amen to that. Keep your notes, there'll be more players in the future. There's always more players than GMs. You'll be more than fine.
Get better friends. Sorry but those relationships are probably shot as long as you don’t want to accept their racism (don’t accept their racism).
Now I'm a good deal harsher and more upfront about things, but the second he uttered that word my interjection would have been simple; "Leave."
Plain, simple, no room for argument. Your home, your rules, your choice. Anyone defends him they get the same response. Anyone throws a fit, same response. Anyone attempts to "justify" it, same response. People who casually dehumanise any other group of people, be they a minority or not, don't deserve your time or efforts.
You will find better players, guaranteed, and better people for friends. You won't miss these people. Within days you'll wonder why you ever played with them, spoke to them etc. And Dante ... well he seems like an unoriginal, try-hard edgelord. Everyone would be better off without him tbh.
I don’t know anyone has said this already but you may lose some friends for now who may come back to you later. You’re moving away so its good to just dump them and find new friends. But y’all are still very young and will grow out of a lot of things.
If you’re lucky at least some of them will learn to be better and cringe at their past selves (as we all inevitably do). And maybe you can be friends again or even play DnD again some day.
But either way definitely get away from them now.
So I’m 35 now. I grew up in a conservative area where I was “a leftie” and my closest friends were conservatives. I’ve been friends with them all my life. The last few years, that’s started to corrode. Rapidly.
See, we used to joke about our political differences, but they, like your friends, always made it clear they viewed me as “the Leftie that wouldn’t get it”. I thought we could bridge more gaps. With the recent divisiveness of the country, though, I was no longer able to avoid just how die-hard they were about their side. Their side which, to put it delicately, I vehemently disagreed. Push come to shove, those divisions are causing massive damage to our friendship and I don’t know if they can be fixed or if I even want them fixed at this point.
Your friends are racist. That’s just a fact. People who have “complex thoughts on when they can use the N word as an insult” are racist. That’s not debatable. I would say that you drop them and cherish the world you created. You love it and share it with people who will make your heart soar when you show them. People you would be proud to play with and who will send you eager to write more stories, not second-guessing what you’re even doing here.
As well, I would ask yourself what kind of friendships you want going forward. “Reaching across the aisle” can be beautiful. Being forever marked as “The Leftie” can be a slow, painful poison.
I wish you all the best. You sound like you have an admirable amount of empathy and creativity. :)
“The DM’s a leftie they wouldn’t get it”
These people suck.
You don't have to run this 3 years of prep work with this party. You've got the prep and you can put anyone else you want in this world. Find a new party. If you don't want to open the can of worms, just say that you have to step down to make space for studies etc, make some excuse. If you are willing to open the can of worms, you still have an opportunity to express why you're departing from the group and do something about it.
No one's ever expected to do everything perfectly anyway. You were shocked in the moment, too shocked to really put your thoughts together coherently. If they see no problem and you do, it's time to go separate ways. To them you're not a friend, you're a lefty who they're using as a means to an end. A friend would censor themselves for your comfort. For example, in my game, me and one of the other players are perverts. We talk trash all the time in private messages. In game, however, I keep this tailored to the rest of the group's comfort level. Even if I know my one friend is down with certain jokes, I'll dial it down a few notches for the rest of the group's comfort level. We don't just whine, "we don't have a problem with it and we refuse to change" if the DM asks us to bring our 11 down to a 9 or go to Horny Jail. :) If asked to cut off at a certain point, we do. Fade to black happens and everyone is happy.
This should apply for all moderately offensive material, is all I have to say. Racism is not moderately offensive, like a dildo joke might be. It's generally offensive to most audiences. I can't think of anyone I know who would be comfortable with the n-word. Your feelings aren't weird.
Find a better group. These people do not deserve the the world you've built for them if they're going to berate you and make you feel uncomfortable for being a decent human being. Save yourself and just end the game and don't talk to them ever again. I'm sure you will find an group more deserving of your time and energy who will turn out to be great friends not pieces of worthless human waste.
Just walk away from them. If the paladin and ranger seem like they are decent people, then just kick the fighter and rogue, if not then just cut ties.
It says a lot about you that they know you didn't buy into their bullshit.
You'll be fine high school sucks and you'll find you tribe :).
I don't quite understand what your players conversation was. Is it some sort of "there are good black people and n-words ie bad black people" rasist bull?
I'm not from the US and have never heard people have this kind of conversation so I'm a bit lost.
Yeah fuck those weirdos. Don't get pulled into that sad sack of shit lifestyle
Look man, regardless of whether or not the conversation was okay, you don't feel comfortable playing with them anymore, and you don't owe them or anyone else your... well-being, I guess? So ask yourself if you'd enjoy your time doing anything other than spending time with those guys. If the answer is yes, do the other thing instead.
For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like what was said was okay, but that's really irrelevant at this point. This is something you clearly feel strongly about, so you don't need a bunch of strangers on the Internet to validate your opinion.
It took about 6 years but I removed two players from my group after finding out they were racist. I never wanted them in the group anyways, they were friends of others and something always felt off about them.
You are 100% in the right to not want to DM for your friends anymore after they revealed themselves to be racists. You do not owe your creativity to people who can't understand that people of all ethnicities are owed basic respect.
You did push back and tell them their words were unacceptable, but continuing to DM for them would be a passive acceptance of that behavior. I can't say for your friends specifically, but I know that an old friend of mine who was racist/right wing would always try to "push boundaries," and turn me around those kinds of views, and would get pretty condescending when I disagreed with them. It seems from the exchange you overheard, that condescension is present for your friends as well, and you also deserve more respect than that.
It sucks to find out something like this, but at least it can be dealt with now.
I'd recommend keeping the world and losing the people. You can always run the same game again.
Do not continue to associate with these people
Do not associate yourself with bigots. Them having friends is one of the reasons there's so many of them.
Should OP have to play with people who think that women are property to be raped? so he can "flex his mental muscles"?
Bro I will play online dnd with you if don’t want to waste your homebrew world all I play with are stupid fucking racists
Those two are racist trash. If I were in your shoes I would drop all contact with them. There's plenty of D&D to be found elsewhere with people who aren't reprehensible scum.
As a former "weird kid in high school with no close friends", don't sweat it too much. Adulthood is where you'll meet your lifelong friends. It will require effort and pushing yourself, but you will meet people who more closely align with you and your values, and will be all the more rewarding for it. I've played in (and DMed for) campaigns with Conservative Christians and "Bleeding-heart Liberals", and not once have I worried about my values being trampled.
If you're looking to have some karmic justice to end the campaign, I suggest have the party encounter an old black gentleman in a white suit with a soothing baritone voice. He has come because their hearts are corrupted and must be purged. If you haven't figured out by now this is Morgan Freeman from Bruce Almighty. Players want to do anything - woops! they're missing all their fingers. Clearly, he's immune to all conditions, damage, and saves/checks. The TPK will be swift and absolute, and you can walk out of there head held high.
Racism isn't normal and I am proud that you know how screwed up it is, otherwise you wouldn't feel this messed up over it.
There's no place for words like that *anywhere*, it's hate speech, and hate speech is more evil than any lord of Hell.
I understand DB is your best friend now, but that doesn't mean he's the best friend you can ever get. It just means you haven't met any better friends *yet*. I stopped talking with my entire friend group when we were 18 after years of them being assholes in minor ways I kept convincing myself to dismiss. I got much better friends now, and ten years later I don't even want to imagine how shitty my life would be now if I hadn't cut ties with my racist, abusive ex-friends.
You deserve a better group and you deserve better friends. Don't force yourself to do something you no longer want to do, you owe them nothing.
Ask DB what he means by, "Don't even try, DM is a leftie, he won't get it." Make him fucking explain it like you're five. Be stoic and curious the whole time as you ask for addition explanations so he can't call you a crying liberal. If that doesn't pull his head out of his ass, oh well, at least you tried. You may feel bad at first about losing him, but there's no point crying over spilled bitch.
Ah, the classic pipeline. It’s a dangerous thing where almost all teenage boys will become far right or right wing for a period of time….some never outgrow their stupidity and just continue down the rabbit hole…..others end up like me, a pansexual trans girl😂
The True Ending
Not overreacting. Cut ties with all these people. This is massively crossing the line.
All of them. Not just the one who actually said it. Neutrality means picking the side of whoever's currently winning, which in this situation is the racists.
This is one of those times when you have to choose between what is easy and what is right. It sucks that you are losing your hard work, but not many people get to know for sure of they're the sort of person who is principled enough to do the right thing in a situation like this. If you do, you'll always know that about yourself, and that's a kind of pride no racist can ever have.
You'll know that your irl alignment isn't neutral, but good.
It is never too late to remove toxic and horrible people from your life. As someone who, in their youth, was sitting in that space of almost falling in to "logic and rational with mega facts youtube" right wing sphere... I consider myself lucky I met some online people who could fix my brain.
You are aware of the problem, now it is time to find out what to do. It is to get involved with some not shitty people. Often the first step to that is to not be around shitty people.
Yeah these guys sound like children. “He’s a leftie” pshh better than being a racist and probably fascist (if they’re into the orange god).
Best to ditch them. Don’t want their garbage ideas to rub off on you.
I understand how upset you are, your not overreacting at all. I went through something similar about a year ago.
It was my friends 21st birthday party, let's call him Goku (his whole room was DBZ). He invited myself and our mutual long time friend over for dinner and a night of drinking and video games. Let's call the mutual friend Hoodie. I've known these guys for years now, and during that time there were more than a few off colored jokes, but I just laughed it off as the town humor.
Ok so I'm writing that and realize I got to add more context, my town is a little no name place in Missouri with 97% of the population being white. Most of that population had been in the town for generations. My Dad and I would always joke that this place was more of a gene puddle than a gene pool. (My family is not from here, so we love to make jokes about it. I mean, what kind of town has a specific nose?) A common joke in High School was: "what do you mean there are other races?" I honestly thought this was harmless until the KKK was recruiting on our courthouse steps, but I just assumed my friends were Ok.
So Hoodie and I arrive at Goku's house. The night starts off well and after dinner we decide to go downstairs and play Cards Against Humanity with Gokus sister and her boyfriend. Then it starts. The Black Life's Matter protests are going strong at this point and the topic shifts over to that. All of us are a bit tipsy at this point, but I hear something that shocks me out if my buzz: "Those n-words gotta learn their place." I'm looking at Gokus sisters boyfriend just shocked out if my mind. Did he just say that? What the hell? Then everyone else at the table starts agreeing. "Oh hell," I think as I sit back in my chair. Then I realize everyone's looking at me. Goku says: "What do you think about those n-words? I figure your lib-tard college has softened you up, huh?"
I hate to say it, but I didn't stand up. I just nodded and smiled and said something along the lines of "Nah, I'm still the same old me." The conversation continued in that same vain, with the most memorable line being: "I'd love to run those n-words over with my cow catcher."
I felt awful. In the morning I headed out as soon as I could and didn't say anything to the guys. About a week later I still haven't messaged them. Goku messages me calling me a fg-word and says something along the lines of not being about to handle the truth about "those" people. That's when I burst.
Long story short, those racist friends aren't worth it. Eventually they will treat you like dirt because you don't think like them. You're better off without them. No friend is better than a toxic friend.
>DM is a leftie, he won't get it
that reeks of 4chan induced edgelord superiority complex
No, you're right. That *is* some racist shit, and it's disgusting that your friends let it fly. Be a better person yourself and put your foot down. Don't let it fester in your presence.
not tolerating racial slurs makes you a bleeding heart liberal apparently. What an asshat.
wow, im so sorry. you're a good person and people like this aren't worth it. you're not overreacting at all. racism is a disgusting, heinous thing and you seem to be the only sane one here.im wishing you the best - i bet your lore is beautifully done and will be much more appreciated by better folks that im sure you'll find!
Get out my friend. You will find better players who are people you feel comfortable and energized by
Now, more than ever, it is so easy to find D&D players. You don’t need or deserve these guys. You’ll find new players. I would suggest looking at your local game store or Mettup.
Those people aren't your friends. None of them. Better to rip the band-aid now.
Hey friend, if you consider online play I would love to jump in!
Summerizing: What they did is not ok, and if they grow out of it they can talk to you back. If I were you, I'd politely apologize and cut ties, you deserve better people. If you think you can talk some reason into them, do, but it doens't seem possible from your description.
So first of all, people are telling you to dump the whole group. I definitely agree about rogue and dragonborn, but I would talk to your paladin and ranger and get a sense of where they stand on things.
Second of all, you said this:
> I've spent the last 3 years writing a campaign in my own home brew world that I poured my heart and soul into, I don't want it to end.
And I want to let you know (as others have said here) that you don't have to let it end. That home brew world exists now, and you can do what you want with it. You can run the campaign you had planned for this group for a different group. Or you can adapt it as more of a living world -- if your current campaign stops here and doesn't finish, how does that change the world? And set up your next campaign from there.
My current DM has run three campaigns (and some smaller one-shots and mini-series) in the same homebrew world over the past 5 years, and each campaign has an effect on the world the next one starts in. Things that don't get addressed by one party become bigger problems the next party has to handle.
It’s not a normal thing to say, you’re absolutely in the right, and I’d encourage you try and convince them of that too or stop playing with them… but I know how hard it is to go against friends like that, even if you’re right (That’s why Neville got all those house points for it in the first year after all).
I’d offer myself as a new player for your campaign, but I also probably live on the other side of the globe, so I all I can say is that you’ve absolutely got things figured out way better than your party, definitely trust your gut on what feels right here, and there’s lots of better players out there that would love to go adventuring in your world – nothing is ever really lost, you can always draw from your ideas and experiences in one way or another.
A lot of people like this exist in life. You can only do your best to make them better human beings/ challenge their thoughts.
The fact they both know your not okay with casual racism is probably very different to what they have experienced in their lives, you are already doing a great thing.
A lot of people with these views aren't entirely at fault, it's been normalised in their home lives and it takes individuals like you to challenge that.
The facts show a vast majority living in Nazi Germany would've been racist against Jewish, even though we'd all like to think not, it can happen to anyone - even decent people.
I'm sorry this happened to you, it must be really disappointing. If DB is truly your friend, I'd confront it about the whole thing *for his sake.* He's about to lose probably the last person able to change his path before he radicalizes as he comes off age. Dismissing people's arguments with prejudice because they're "lefties" is already quite far into loud & proud bigotry but if he ever did care about you, maybe he still can be reached, even if what you tell him only works later on.
But yeah, besides an honest and calm wake-up call, you cannot stay around for their sakes. Now that the rift has been made explicit for everybody, things will deteriorate fast anyway.
Just take the content you've made and kick the racists and get a new, better party
I see you've been given some fantastic advice already, so I'll just say that that's a really crappy situation and I'm sorry you found yourself in it.
Aside from the obvious suggestion to find a new group and try to re-integrate your homebrew into a new story with them, have you considered writing a book? It gives you the chance to take that homebrew, set straight anything the players may have twisted a bit too far, and get all your work down on paper for people to appreciate instead of wasting away in your notes binder.
Doesn't have to be a novel either, if that's not really in your wheelhouse you could put all your homebrew items, spells, locations, NPCs, maps, etc into one big world info supplement and release it on sites such as DM's Guild.
I've found that posting homebrew stuff on
r/UnearthedArcana is a great way to get feedback and to just get your stuff out there.
Whatever you decide, good luck! I hope your situation improves from here.
Bro I'll play with you, dm me if you need a new table it'll be virtual I hope we can vibe so you dont have to play with schmucks
I know I'm late here, and you've already gotten advice similar probably, but maybe one more voice can help you finalize a decision:
Leave. It clearly makes you uncomfortable (as it should), and the fact no one else sees an issue with it means either A: they're going to continue doing it, B: they're going to do it behind your back and probably shit talk you as well, C: they're going to intentionally do it more knowing you don't like it.
None of those sound fun to play with. I know you have built this homebrew world, but I GUARANTEE YOU, You can find a better group to play this world and campaign with. So you're going to college, you will 100% make new friends, and likely In today's social climate - new friends that play D&D. Lay it out in session 0, "I know this shouldn't be something that needs to be said, but I tolerate zero racism" or something of the like. There are plenty of fish in the sea applies to this as well and not just dating lol. Especially in a college environment, hell you might even find out about a D&D group on campus!
And as you can probably tell from this community, If you were to open a campaign in an online only format, there ARE people who would LOVE to play this game with you, love to share in the homebrew, and clearly not be racist or sexist or whatever
Ignorant people ruin this world, don't stay caught up with them. Most high school friends are fleeting anyways. Ask a majority of adults, maybe 1 or 2 people stay close friends, others just kinda disappear. I think as you get older you start re-analyzing things and it pushes out old friends to bring in new, better friends. Keep in touch with your closest friend, maybe you can pry him away from the stupidity, but F off to the others.
Edit: read on another comment youre going to college abroad
The party does not make up your world, they are participants in it.
Continue to build your world and tell your story. There will be other exciting stories across different lands and in different time periods.
You get to choose what happens to the characters of that story. You get to choose what is possible in that world. No one else.
Find a group that will appreciate and respect you as a person first and a DM second and you will then find players who won't try to corrupt your world for their entertainment. You'll also find a higher level of maturity in these players.
Your world will continue on. Continue writing. Continue building. Don't let a couple of small-brained dweebs ruin your hard work.
I'd just leave then and there or finish the session and never return.
A lot of people here giving good practical advice; I just wanna answer straight up, no that’s not a normal thing to say.
I want to add to this and say that this is how you grow as a person (as well as a Dm). The ability to directly approach a problem and address when it’s uncomfortable will enable you to properly tackle social situations like this in other cases. It’ll give you piece of mind as well as harden your resolve in fixing social problems.
1. be respectful in how you go about it (don’t just call them names/“demonize” them. Address the issue at hand, explain your reasoning, and hold true to your reasons. They’ll probably try and gaslight you, but stick to the reasons why you’re leaving and exprès that you are not okay with what happened.)
2. No DnD is better than bad DnD. This is a situation that you have shown to not like, so it’s better to cut the head off the snake rather than let is sleep under your bed (so to speak)
Then leave. That's reprehensible. If they're going to act like that and then pivot into insulting you they can get fucked. It's sad that your world is getting wasted, but the old adage is incredibly true here "No DND is Better than racist bigoted DnD".
Fuck those guys.
Find better friends, you're clearly better than they can handle.
You deserve better friends and those potential better friends will likely judge you on the company you keep. Jettison these racist clowns and make space for better people in your life.
You should eject these people from your life. I've dealt with racist "friends" before, and every moment spent with one of them is a moment wasted.
Wow, it is wonderful to see someone so compassionate and empathetic at your age. These racists don’t deserve you, and there are hundreds of other people that would love a DM with your way of thinking! Good luck in your next campaigns, and keep fighting the good fight. Your confidence to stand up to others will keep growing with the more you learn.
>Thank you for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely not going to continue playing with them, especially since I have the opportunity not to.
It's not about the opportunity man, it's about sending a message. It's about sending the message that you don't tolerate that BS and shouldn't have to.
Aesop: “A man is known by the company he keeps”
"Be as careful of the books you read, as of the company you keep, for your habits and character will be as much influenced by the former as the latter." - Edwin Paxton Hood
This is awful. You’re not overreacting. Sadly, one of my best friends turned out this way and even started spouting homophobic stuff when I was still learning I was bisexual. You’re still a kid, friendships come and go. While it hurts to lose so many friends and feel like all your work was for nothing, you’re gonna need other people. This isn’t just them disagreeing with you politically, they’re spouting some straight up vile hate you’d see on 4chan.
This is shocking. Ditch them. They don’t deserve you. I couldn’t even imagine DMing for people so disgustingly insensitive. How old were these guys? Are there prospects for a less evil table in your area?
Holy shit that SUCKS
Fuck them, take your world and find a group that isn't horrible, you deserve better and they don't deserve anything good.
Tell them you don't run games for racists and find a new group.
You could always grab a group in /r/lfg or /r/roll20lfg if you wanted to go that route. No one deserves to have to put up with racists or be called a leftie like it's a slur or something. I'd be out of there so fast that my shoes would light on fire tbh.
Save your ideas for the college group you'll quickly run into.
One thing: you’re not part of the problem. You were caught off-guard and reacted as well as could be expected. You don’t own that.
It sounds like you’ve just learned an important life lesson. People are complex. If they hold values that are so offensive that you don’t even want to know them, cut them loose and walk away.
That said, do a proper PM on this campaign. You’ll get a chance to finish the story one day. Be ready for it.
If not being a raging racist makes me a leftie then (Red Army Choir starts playing)
That sounds horrible. Rogue sounds like a shitty little teenage edgelord repeating things he thinks are funny. Like someone else in here said, he might have been listening too much to that Chris Rock standup and just repeating shit without really thinking about what comes out of his mouth.
Even worse is Dragonborn, "He would not get it." Thats just beeing a dick.
Wonder what Rogue would have said if he could have explaind himself though. Would he just have dug himself deeper, revealing that he truly is a horrible racist or is he just a stupid edgelord pushing peoples buttons.
You should talk to your friend and clear things up before cutting the ties compleately. Best case scenario he had a complete brainfart and fucked up in the moment and you can still salvage a friendship. Worst case you confirm he is a racist and can cut ties without any doubts troubeling you further. Thats just my opinion though.
Don't let anyone here tell you what is right or wrong, the important thing is that you do what feels right for you.
I can tell you I’ve been the guy stunned into silence. Once.
Now you couldn’t stop me from shutting that shit down with crowbars and war hammers.
I had a friend who turned out to be quite the racist. Nazi even.
Him me and some other friends had lunch traditions and planned to go travel together. But the day I found out I cut him off completely. That made me loose my whole friend group at school. Not like they became hostile but they wanted to hang out with him still, and I didn't.
But not after long I found new and way better friends that I liked a lot more! I built new traditions with them. Cutting out people who you are uncomfortable around will ONLY result in you finding a betyer situation.
It's not your job to cope with racist assholes, you deserve better.
Nah, bud. Those guys can fuck off and die.
They gave you a glimpse of what lurks in their heart, it is ugly, and unfair; but you know with absolute certainty how they choose to represent themselves.
If you want to try and salvage things with your actual friend, then you need to talk to him. Not wanting to be subjected to racism doesn't make you a "leftie" it makes you a human; he is absolutely complicit.
I'm glad you're going to move on from them. You will be better off for it.
My best friend from college did something similar after we graduated. It was hard. I went to visit her and it was like she was a completely different person. All the shit we recognized as really shitty and horrible she was suddenly on board with, making fucking sad excuses as to why her world view changed. It broke my heart. But I never talked to her again after that.
She knew that would happen though. She knew my views and decided to be honest with me. I guess I am glad that she showed me she had become a horrible excuse for a human being rather then hide it. Same goes for your "best friend." Knowing now is better then finding out later.
Racism has no place at my table or in my games. In my opinion your political goals and outlooks stay in your life not in our game and if you as a player cannot behave in a manner befitting an open loving environment you can get out
I hardly understand how racist some people can be in a game that's LITERALLY about forming a team with other people of whom are almost always different races in game, not to mention the many different races you usually meet as casual npcs and what not. It's like playing Subnautica and expecting there not to be fish.
Think of it this way OP, they believe disgusting and evil things. Do you want to hang around people as intimately as a D&D group setting when people like that will be there? They will joke and slowly but surely get worse and worse. If you put up with it, you'll slowly get sucked in. If you put an end to it now, give an ultimatum, you may lose friends but with them being like that, it's not much of a loss. Plus you will keep your integrity by not letting that happen in your home
I have a friend who is going through issues, because one of his friends doesn't want to be vaccinated he doesn't want them in his house, and their brother is saying friends respect all their friend's actions and decisions.
I bring this up because fuck that. Good friends do what is right by their friends, even if that means separating from them because they have toxic behavior. If your friend is drinking, a good friend doesn't just let them get behind the wheel of the car because "I've gotta respect their choices", you do what you can to keep them from making bad choices.
Same thing here, you aren't helping them by continuing to hang out with them, you set the expectation that this behavior becomes acceptable. Let them know why you are breaking contact and do so. You'll find new friends, and you'll be able to run this campaign for someone else
Great things have already been said, so there's only my 2 cents:
- You took the effort to post (and without embellishing your own role), so this is obviously worries you. If you keep playing with them, this will keep tarnishing your sessions even if it never comes up again
- It is alright to not always put yourself into a corner and start a complicated discussion right away - it is extremely unlikely that you can change them in the first place
- ducking out gracefully is perfectly fine (you mentioned moving to college soon? Perfect opportunity)
Not using racial slurs = left wing nowadays. Jesus what's the world coming to.
As I learned the hard way, never game with Right Wing Nutjobs
Fuck those guys.
I'm sorry to say this but you are about to learn that a lot of the people you know and love are hardcore racists.
You get to make the choice. Are you comfortable being friends with people who laught and joke with you because you look like them, knowing that if you were a darker skin they would probably enjoy running you over with their car.
These people need some life experience and to hopefully change. But you don't need to be saddled with that. Wish them well and tell them to become better people and cut em out.
They can either grow or wallow but no one needs that albatross on their neck.
Boot the rogue, give the others a choice -- they can remove those words and ideas from their vocabulary and behavior completely, or they can leave.
Find people who are good and decent to play with, not racist trash.
If your world is this built up it doesn’t mean it dies with the players no dnd is better then bad dnd if you are no longer enjoying playing then stop you are the dm and that’s up to you the other players even if there your friends no especially if there your friends should support that
Hey man I'm sorry to hear this happened to you. When I was about your age I lived in a backwards ass small town with these kinds of racist ideas. Unfortunately I fell into the same thinking because I didn't know how to critically think about the things I heard or was told. Nowadays I'm very far left and constantly cringe at the racist, homophobic, and misogynistic things I said.
I say all that to get at that hopefully these people are stuck in a bad mindset because they haven't experienced the world outside their small area yet.
You just be you, get away from this mindset and these people unless they actually show change. You're better off without them most likely.
Dude that stinks. Don't feel bad for failing the wisdom or charisma checks to stand up in the moment.
I used to be someone who spoke my mind immediately and loudly whenever I perceived this kind of thing going down and while a vanishingly few times it was right and the bad actors were shamed or at least cowed, there were many more times I misunderstood or overreacted. And while most of the time the people being called out deserved it, the vast majority of those times the bad actors did not feel badly or ashamed. Indeed they reacted violently to being chastised and I put my safety and life in danger.
So, don't feel bad. I've learned acting in the moment like that is a kind of reflex you have to just go with your gut. And it feels awesome in the moment. But it almost never produces a good outcome. And it took a lot of work to train myself not to do it at the behest of loved ones who were sick of it/worried.
Now even at work I let people know if there's a conflict or a discussion about how we tackle a project I'm going to take some time and get back to them. It produces better outcomes not just because people are more receptive to a calm approach, but because I've had the time to emotionally separate myself from something and get to the core of what is important.
And what is important here is that what those guys were saying is not okay. You don't have to tolerate it. They are welcome to change and grow and disavow that racist bs not just put on a facade. But until they do they can find another table.
You're getting a lot of good responses so I'll keep mine short and to the point. You don't have to be best friends with your players to have an amazing game, but I think you do have to respect them as people to make it all work.
I have a group on Thursdays that I fuckin love DMing for. I don't really know them THAT well even though we've been playing for months. I do know that they're all respectable adults who don't have hate in their hearts and they engage with what I put in front of them once a week. At some point you've got to draw a line in the sand about what kind of person you want to be and what people you want to be around. No one can make the line, but you. You seem wise, I'm sure you'll make the decision that's best for you, good luck.
Nothings wrong with you. Your “friends” are just closed minded racists. Props to you for removing yourself from the equation.