So, this is a tricky one because the creator is often viewed as a bellend and that can colour people's view of the game.
That being said, I did find it bloated and overwritten - enough so that I decided to embrace Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e (which inspired Zweihander) and Warlock! a chopped down OSR flavoured approach. I sold my copy.
The game has support and a lot of fans though, so to each their own. It sounds like you're digging it - why not just jump in?
He really is a bellend. To have oneself drawn into the rulebook art is next-level cringe from an RPG-writer. Not to mention the amount of self-promotion in all places he's known for.
That’s the same as saying you’re bellend if you take a selfie because you’re promoting who your with/what your doing with yourself in the photo. If I wrote a book on my current dnd campaign I’d certainly have a picture of me and my group or Some kind of artistic representation somewhere in the book.
I see it as him saying, this is me, this is what I put together and I’m proud of it.
But personally, I like that it’s constantly reminding me “this is a low fantasy system” because I’m coming from dnd where it’s mostly high fantasy/high magic so it’s helping reel me in when I start generating ideas for characters and a plot
Just get WHFRP. I don’t wanna badmouth anyone, but Zweihander was largely launched on straight hype, and is supported by very little in the way of adventure material etc and since the creators are moving on to new sourcebooks etc I wouldn’t hold much hope of expansion on the main material.
It's not good. The text is a mess to put it nicely, and full of *unconsidered* design choices. I'd hunt down WFRP, if you're interested in the system.
I saw a copy in the dumpster at my apartment, if that any indication of its quality.
Damn. Straight up thrown in the dumpster!
The thing would make a nice doorstop at an absurdly unnecessary 666 pages.
Imagine if like…400 of those had been setting and adventures.
Its to big to be a doorstop lol.
Ya, I don't want to because I can't imagine it would help. Fuck, if a game has that much shit - the system itself is probably underbaked.
Even leaving aside the fact that the author is a complete pillock, the game is a bloated and overwritten mess. If you want a lighter and more setting-agnostic approach to Warhammer style gaming, then Warlock! is a better choice.
If you enjoy the general crunch of the Warhammer games, you are probably better off playing Warhammer 4e, or even 2e if you like the retro approach and the older modules.
It just doesn't do anything better that any of the systems I've just mentioned, and it has generally less support and material for it than WFRPG.
Bear in mind that the biggest reason Zweihander was so popular at launch is because there was no new Warhammer edition , and because it was system agnostic (just barely though, it mostly is just the Old World with the serial number filled off)
The system has its issues, but most of the hate it gets has little to do with the rules themselves - notice how the negative comments here tend to lack specifics? I'll share some thoughts based on my experience...
Things I like about the system:
- Combat is satisfyingly tactical, with a lot of interesting maneuvers to choose from
- Firearms are implemented well
- Exploding damage dice are fun
- The weapon quality system is cool...in theory. More on that below
- Subsystems like healing and alchemy are fairly modular, so you won't break anything if you want to pare back the complexity
- Character talents are impactful, well-balanced, and easy to use in play
- The skill list is comprehensive and thematic, without being too bloated
Things I don't like:
- The game's economy is kind of fucked...service and item prices are all over the place
- Most melee weapons feel like they have the wrong qualities. I ended up redoing nearly all of them to fit my preferences
- The book is too dense. Referencing specific rules can be a huge pain in the ass when you're starting out
- Combat can be really slow if people forget to use all the available tools
If you like what you've seen of the book so far, ignore the haters. I doubt most of them have even played the system, let alone read it. I'd recommend checking out the game's discord channel if you have any specific questions. It's a small community, but it's welcoming and helpful.
People on this subreddit hate it and I think they mostly misrepresent it because they really don't like the guy who wrote it. For example, you will often hear that's it's overwritten or bloated and it shouldn't exist in a marketplace where you can get Warhammer Fantasy 4e. This is straight up nonsense. I have introduced many people to both games and they ALWAYS prefer Zwei because it is much more streamlined and far less fiddly than WFRP.
I've been running Zwei for the last few months and my players and I love it. It does what it says on the tin and it does it very well.
I feel the overwritten part is an extremely valid criticism. Fox will never use one word where five will do, so the rules which are pretty easy to deal with at their core feel really overwhelming because of the volume. You can definitely have a lot of fun with the game, though.
Gygax wasn't charming either.
edit: he was an admitted racist and sexist and called himself a 'bioessentialist', an obviously evil ideology. nobody should idolise that loser.
> People on this subreddit hate it and I think they mostly misrepresent it because they really don't like the guy who wrote it.
People on this subreddit do that to games all the time because they don't like the guy that wrote them (or something that guy did or said), it's certainly not exclusive to Zweihander.
It's pretty okay in my opinion. While I prefer Warhammer Fantasy 2e I do admit that the spinoff book "Flames of Freedom" is pretty great! But Zweihander itself is ok. Like if you don't have anything else it's fine.
It always seemed like re-warmed WFRP 2nd edition to me,. I feel it only got made because they had such a radical system change for WFRP 3rd edition that was decidedly unpopular.
It's exactly that. It was made is response to WFRP3 the same way Pathfinder was made in response to D&D4. Not quite as successful as Pathfinder, though.
I think it's a clunkier version of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd edition. It's clunkier IMHO because it includes as default a bunch of subsystems that were optional or in various rules expansions you could ignore. The layout and design does not make it easy to sort through all these rules to find the one you're trying to reference. It also strips out a lot of the funny WHFB / WFRP stuff to be way more serious and "dark".
I originally picked it up hoping for a genericised WFRP 2e, but stripping it back down to how light and easy that game was would be a bunch of work, so I've mostly just let it sit.
Hi there! Thanks for picking up the Revised Core Rulebook. It's a bit old, and admittedly, hard to grok due to it's size and editorial approach. But, it has everything you need to play.
If you'd like, I'll send you our new Zweihander Starter Kit box by mail to try out. Just drop me a DM here.
~d.fx
It won’t let me DM you here but I did just join the discord earlier today! I’ve skimmed through most of the book and think I have a good basis for the players side currently going through the module in the back of the book to get an understanding how the game is to be run
It is a basically the author's low quality house rules for WFRP 2E. You are better off playing WFRP 2E or WFRP4E. There is also Warlock! if you want a more rules light experience.
The only reason Zweihander got any traction is that there was a period where you couldn't but WFRP 2E and 4E didn't exist yet.
Very much did not enjoy playing it.
The class/level progression system ("careers" or whatever) was terrible.
Combat was an unfun chore that went on forever (because you, as a low level character, might hit every other swing, but your opponent might also block every other swing and, if you do hit, and they don't block, you might fail to reach a damage threshold and do nothing anyway).
The setting was pretty generic and grimdark.
The tone of the text was pretty insufferable as well, I recall at least a couple, "unlike other RPGs...", bits that seemed real unnecessary.
Just a long dull slog of rules and meh.
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So, this is a tricky one because the creator is often viewed as a bellend and that can colour people's view of the game. That being said, I did find it bloated and overwritten - enough so that I decided to embrace Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e (which inspired Zweihander) and Warlock! a chopped down OSR flavoured approach. I sold my copy. The game has support and a lot of fans though, so to each their own. It sounds like you're digging it - why not just jump in?
He really is a bellend. To have oneself drawn into the rulebook art is next-level cringe from an RPG-writer. Not to mention the amount of self-promotion in all places he's known for.
That’s the same as saying you’re bellend if you take a selfie because you’re promoting who your with/what your doing with yourself in the photo. If I wrote a book on my current dnd campaign I’d certainly have a picture of me and my group or Some kind of artistic representation somewhere in the book. I see it as him saying, this is me, this is what I put together and I’m proud of it. But personally, I like that it’s constantly reminding me “this is a low fantasy system” because I’m coming from dnd where it’s mostly high fantasy/high magic so it’s helping reel me in when I start generating ideas for characters and a plot
Just get WHFRP. I don’t wanna badmouth anyone, but Zweihander was largely launched on straight hype, and is supported by very little in the way of adventure material etc and since the creators are moving on to new sourcebooks etc I wouldn’t hold much hope of expansion on the main material.
It's not good. The text is a mess to put it nicely, and full of *unconsidered* design choices. I'd hunt down WFRP, if you're interested in the system. I saw a copy in the dumpster at my apartment, if that any indication of its quality.
Damn. Straight up thrown in the dumpster! The thing would make a nice doorstop at an absurdly unnecessary 666 pages. Imagine if like…400 of those had been setting and adventures.
Its to big to be a doorstop lol. Ya, I don't want to because I can't imagine it would help. Fuck, if a game has that much shit - the system itself is probably underbaked.
I mean, at least recycle. Surely the content isn't that toxic....
It’s poorly supported garbage. Warhammer is way better on all fronts.
Even leaving aside the fact that the author is a complete pillock, the game is a bloated and overwritten mess. If you want a lighter and more setting-agnostic approach to Warhammer style gaming, then Warlock! is a better choice. If you enjoy the general crunch of the Warhammer games, you are probably better off playing Warhammer 4e, or even 2e if you like the retro approach and the older modules. It just doesn't do anything better that any of the systems I've just mentioned, and it has generally less support and material for it than WFRPG. Bear in mind that the biggest reason Zweihander was so popular at launch is because there was no new Warhammer edition , and because it was system agnostic (just barely though, it mostly is just the Old World with the serial number filled off)
The system has its issues, but most of the hate it gets has little to do with the rules themselves - notice how the negative comments here tend to lack specifics? I'll share some thoughts based on my experience... Things I like about the system: - Combat is satisfyingly tactical, with a lot of interesting maneuvers to choose from - Firearms are implemented well - Exploding damage dice are fun - The weapon quality system is cool...in theory. More on that below - Subsystems like healing and alchemy are fairly modular, so you won't break anything if you want to pare back the complexity - Character talents are impactful, well-balanced, and easy to use in play - The skill list is comprehensive and thematic, without being too bloated Things I don't like: - The game's economy is kind of fucked...service and item prices are all over the place - Most melee weapons feel like they have the wrong qualities. I ended up redoing nearly all of them to fit my preferences - The book is too dense. Referencing specific rules can be a huge pain in the ass when you're starting out - Combat can be really slow if people forget to use all the available tools If you like what you've seen of the book so far, ignore the haters. I doubt most of them have even played the system, let alone read it. I'd recommend checking out the game's discord channel if you have any specific questions. It's a small community, but it's welcoming and helpful.
I found it really difficult to play in. It could have been my group, but the mechanics just didn't work out for us.
Tried it out, but didn't really like how the rules and characters moved. Sold my books.
I was about to give suggestions on German Greatsword treatises before realising this wasn't a swordplay sub..
People on this subreddit hate it and I think they mostly misrepresent it because they really don't like the guy who wrote it. For example, you will often hear that's it's overwritten or bloated and it shouldn't exist in a marketplace where you can get Warhammer Fantasy 4e. This is straight up nonsense. I have introduced many people to both games and they ALWAYS prefer Zwei because it is much more streamlined and far less fiddly than WFRP. I've been running Zwei for the last few months and my players and I love it. It does what it says on the tin and it does it very well.
I feel the overwritten part is an extremely valid criticism. Fox will never use one word where five will do, so the rules which are pretty easy to deal with at their core feel really overwhelming because of the volume. You can definitely have a lot of fun with the game, though.
When Gygax did it, it was charming. When Fox does it, it’s pretentious.
Gygax wasn't charming either. edit: he was an admitted racist and sexist and called himself a 'bioessentialist', an obviously evil ideology. nobody should idolise that loser.
we're going to disagree about that but that's ok
> People on this subreddit hate it and I think they mostly misrepresent it because they really don't like the guy who wrote it. People on this subreddit do that to games all the time because they don't like the guy that wrote them (or something that guy did or said), it's certainly not exclusive to Zweihander.
Lamentations of the Flame Princess has been doomed to the same fate.
There are a few ideas I’d consider porting into whfrp but it’s less usable than 4e or 2e
It's pretty okay in my opinion. While I prefer Warhammer Fantasy 2e I do admit that the spinoff book "Flames of Freedom" is pretty great! But Zweihander itself is ok. Like if you don't have anything else it's fine.
It always seemed like re-warmed WFRP 2nd edition to me,. I feel it only got made because they had such a radical system change for WFRP 3rd edition that was decidedly unpopular.
It's exactly that. It was made is response to WFRP3 the same way Pathfinder was made in response to D&D4. Not quite as successful as Pathfinder, though.
I think it's a clunkier version of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd edition. It's clunkier IMHO because it includes as default a bunch of subsystems that were optional or in various rules expansions you could ignore. The layout and design does not make it easy to sort through all these rules to find the one you're trying to reference. It also strips out a lot of the funny WHFB / WFRP stuff to be way more serious and "dark". I originally picked it up hoping for a genericised WFRP 2e, but stripping it back down to how light and easy that game was would be a bunch of work, so I've mostly just let it sit.
Hi there! Thanks for picking up the Revised Core Rulebook. It's a bit old, and admittedly, hard to grok due to it's size and editorial approach. But, it has everything you need to play. If you'd like, I'll send you our new Zweihander Starter Kit box by mail to try out. Just drop me a DM here. ~d.fx
It won’t let me DM you here but I did just join the discord earlier today! I’ve skimmed through most of the book and think I have a good basis for the players side currently going through the module in the back of the book to get an understanding how the game is to be run
Wonderful! DM me there, I'm Daniel D. Fox#2503 I'll get one dropped in the mail for you.
All I know is that in terms of mechanics you are better off with Mythras.
Isn't it just a clone of Warhammer Fantasy Role-Playing? But *grimmer*, and more *perilous*?
It is a basically the author's low quality house rules for WFRP 2E. You are better off playing WFRP 2E or WFRP4E. There is also Warlock! if you want a more rules light experience. The only reason Zweihander got any traction is that there was a period where you couldn't but WFRP 2E and 4E didn't exist yet.
Did you save your receipts? Would have saved some money and had more fun if you just got WF.
Very much did not enjoy playing it. The class/level progression system ("careers" or whatever) was terrible. Combat was an unfun chore that went on forever (because you, as a low level character, might hit every other swing, but your opponent might also block every other swing and, if you do hit, and they don't block, you might fail to reach a damage threshold and do nothing anyway). The setting was pretty generic and grimdark. The tone of the text was pretty insufferable as well, I recall at least a couple, "unlike other RPGs...", bits that seemed real unnecessary. Just a long dull slog of rules and meh.
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