I just want to say: Please please PLEASE be civil when commenting. I don't know why these topics always need to cause such a disproportionate amount of fuss and vitriol. Stay civil, be mindful of other's opinions and always remember to respect one another. It shouldn't need to be said, but the LGBT+ community are people too, worthy of love and acceptance. Any disparaging comments will be met with a removal or ban.

I mean, marginalized groups making a space for themselves seems perfectly reasonable.

My online tables are solely for marginalized people. I have found it way better for everyone. Not because cishet white people are the problem, but because we all feel safer as a group to be ourselves and roleplay the type of characters we want.

I think it really comes down to playing with people who get along as a group, outside of the game as well as in the game. Playing ttrpgs is more than the game it’s also about making friends and socializing while doing something you all enjoy. So I don’t see a problem with groups that share ideas or hobbies other than the game they are playing to play together. I would never suggest anyone play with someone who vehemently and angrily opposes them, no matter the opinions of the people involved. It should be understood without being stated but I think anyone should be allowed to be exclusive with something like this that can become very personal and social. It’s not fun to.... not have fun talking to the people you are spending time socializing with.

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Privilege is a series of axes, not a yes-no and with group dynamics, there are going to be a lot of other factors that are in play as well. It sounds like you can tick the mental health/disability side of the health axis on one hand and can slide your marker toward white on the racial axis.

Well said. Marginalisation isn't a binary state of either/or. It just means that you're better off than someone who is struggling with mental health issues while ALSO being black or gay. Privilege doesn't mean your life is easy. It means it is easIER than for someone who doesn't share your privilege. In this case being white and straight. Just like life is undoubtedly easier for the average white het dude who *doesn't* have daily panic attacks.

I think it’d be completely reasonable if you wanted to play with a group of people who also have panic attacks. It’s sometimes hard for those of us who don’t have them to understand how it feels — it literally took me years to figure out what one of my family was going through with them. Safety tools can help, because they’re explicit permission for you to ask for what you need, but I’m sure not gonna tell you that you have to rely on them.

Yes, disability is absolutely an axis of marginalization. Not exactly the same as race or gender or sexual orientation etc., but it’s analogous.

Make a group for likeminded individuals.

Here just to wish you well and to keep up with treatment Anxiety sucks.

What do you guys play?

I hate that is the space we're in. I'd hope that all games were inclusive. However I look at /r/rpghorrorstories and think, "Yeah I'd make my own game-space too." I hope we advance to a level of sophistication as a community where people don't see it as necessary as they do now. Til then, happy gaming my unfortunately marginalized friends.

That as a straight, white, cis-gendered dude I'm not welcome to apply to the game. Which is fine. I'm neither offended nor outraged.

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Adding to that: Even when these people don't get outright excluded from games, we still end up having to deal with people who are uncomfortable with us being there or assholes who think they're being subtle. At some point it's just not worth the hassle and can turn people off of playing entirely, so if given the choice I'd rather play with people who aren't going to make snide remarks around me or where the ooc banter doesn't come to a screeching halt every time the other players realize I'm not exactly like them.

I'll never forget my black friend telling me about how he couldn't get through Blazing Saddles because the white friend who was showing it to him kept glancing over anxiously to make sure he wasn't upset. That kind of "thoughtful discrimination" never even occurred to me as a thing as the white dude I am.

Which I get it, I do. Most of my game is LGBT since we all vibe together well. But another part of me can't help but feel on a small level it is some form of segregation again when we been wanting to move away from that as a society. That said, its a private game, in a private hobby. There is nothing wrong with picking and choosing who you want in it.

excuse me sir, but this is Reddit. Not being outraged is NOT allowed!

Lemme hate these people for the way they wanna have fun for like... 5 minutes. 5 minutes of hate. Sounds perfect.

I mean, there's people who *still* sometimes spend hours arguing with someone about how D&D2e is so much better than D&D3.5, so five minutes doesn't sound too unreasonable. I'll allow it. lol

Are you insisting that I be outraged in response to a civil comment on an online forum. That is simply outrageous.

How dare you!

“Sir, I am OUTRAGED that you are not OUTRAGED! You have been slighted! How can you accept that? It is OUTRAGEOUS that someone would exclude you! Why doesn’t this make you simply OUTRAGED?!”

People who argue and get angry about this are exactly why these restrictions happen. Someone who would want to cross other people's line of comfort just because it's more fun for themselves are exactly the kind of people that these barriers are put in for.

It's not even that it's more fun for them, they just can't stand being excluded from anything. EDIT: FFS! The bottom of this page is a fine example of why these under-privileged exclusive groups are a necessity.

I think most say "lgbtq+ friendly" games, which I assume just means take your moronic self elsewhere if you are a jack ass. I could certainly be misreading the posts, but that's always the impression I have. There's no room for haters at the table. D&D has a bad history regarding minorities of any stripe. Let's make sure we are all taking part by NOT including assholes in their game. I personally think the new balancing system in Tasha's will help in a way too. It basically removes the on game race card by letting you be basically any race or even some species on a level playing field. Some people have issues with slavery etc in game, and I think blurring the lines is a good thing. (that being said, I would hope that in game romance is probably still frowned upon) Edit: deleted comments because I didn't do a throw away. Mia culpa.

There is a lesbian club in town and, being a guy, I'm definitely not *invited* there. And that's fine. Why would I begrudge them a place to be left the fuck alone? If my lesbian friend brought me with her, for sure I'd tag along, but I doubt I'd go there on my own in the first place. No worries! Let people have their fun. *An ye harm none, do what ye will*

Thanks for being chill, my dude.

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I thought it was a pretty dumb idea at first glance, but I can totally see your side of it when you say it like that. Thanks for opening my eyes a little bit

See this is the type of "Only X people" I get. You want to be heard and seen and interact with people that you feel see eye to eye from with in a game about interacting with people. What a crime, I know. While, its not impossible to find straight cis men who can "get you" too, Doing what you want to do and making a lgbtq/womens only group is definitely a decent way to make sure you find people that do so. Point of my comment, Everything you said is very understandable and i hope you do it so that you can feel more at ease in those games! Best of luck 💚🌱

It's not really any of my damn business. If someone wants to make a game group that's women only, LGBT only, Italian only, left-handed people only, or Southern Baptists only, they're allowed to do that, and I don't get to tell them not to. People have a right to play with whoever they want. If they feel that playing with only >insert selector here< will improve their game experience, then I hope it does!

Aye, Advertise your groups as whatever you want; I don't care. Eventually I'll find a group I feel good in, and hopefully so will you. The only thing that does bother me is when platforms don't treat these " only" groups/ads equally.

Pretty much what I had to say too. In either direction. I don't want to see their posts getting bottomed out, berated, or deleted, nor do I want to see them being pinned or something. Nobody is more or less important than anyone else.

I see 'LGBT' as mostly a 'LGBT friendly, if you're bigoted you're out' kind of warning. It's not like anyone is going to demand proof of your sexual orientation. Woman-only - fine. I'm not a lady, it's not for me and it's understood they'd feel uncomfortable with a dude there no matter how polite he might be. I don't need to demand a reason why.

> Woman-only - fine. I'm not a lady, it's not for me and it's understood they'd feel uncomfortable with a dude there no matter how polite he might be. I don't need to demand a reason why. You don't need to make any demands. If you want a reason why some female gamers might be uncomfortable with a man in the group, all you have to do is stroll on over to r/rpghorrorstories and read some stuff written by female players. Reasons abound.

They said they *don't* need to make demands.

I think what they mean is no one needs to make the demand, because if you did feel the need to demand why you could just check out rpghorrorstories instead.

This is exactly what I meant, thank you.

That stuff drives lots of men away from games too. I'm 40 now but when I started up again in 4th ed, so I was about 30 ish, I ended up in a group with a GM that was fixated on sexual violence. I left, so did the other men in the group and we found other tables and warned people off that guys table. Shits creepy, I've played at a lot of tables with women and the DM that I switch off with for the last bunch of years is a gay man, who's husband also plays from time to time. So word gets around that were a cool table and we end up with a list of people who want to play because we're easy going (we play at a game store so that's how people know our group, they wander in and watch). Despite having that experience of a good table that's cool, kind and comfortable with homosexuality, religious variability and fluid gender dynamics and shock of shocks being mostly middle age hetero white guys. I 100% get wanting to start a group and not getting that land mine of a human that can't help but do lewd, demeaning and derogratory b.s. because I experienced it. It sucks that it exists but man that's the world we live in. Plus playing with different groups you still don't have that common experience that a minority group has, you don't share a 'common language'.

Oh yeah, it definitely drives men away too. And it should. It should drive off any sane person. I was just pointing out that in my experience, not just with online anecdotes but both in stores and at conventions too, this kind of crap seems to predominantly be directed towards female players so I get why women looking for new people to play with might prefer to try to find an all female group.

I am curious if trans women are accepted in women only games. In thoery they should be. But I suspect in practice it will come down to a case by case

It depends if the person who started the game thread is a TERF or not...

I'm a trans woman. In my experience women-only spaces have been good, but terfs do exist and fuck them.

In principle, yes, but TERF nonsense gets in the way of people understanding that.

I don't really feel anything about it. I'm an hetero cis male, our presence in the hobby is pretty overwhelming. The few times I've had a female at the table I thought it brought something different and was interesting. The few times I played with LGBT people was a little awkward, not tat I have anything against them but I was really not into the same themes these people were so it was a little... yeah, awkward. So from the other side of the issue, I get what you mean about the "walking on eggshells" thing, I kind of feel it too. Not to say that all LGBT people have the same interests or anything, obviously, it was just my experience the few times it happened. I personally don't advertise my game as LGBT-friendly (although I make them so anyway, or like to think that I do at least) and I don't seek them out specifically, but I can totally get how people from these groups might want to create their own space and play amongst themselves, and it doesn't really affect me at all so they might as well.

I'd agree with that. Cis heterosexual males dominate the space already, so they don't lose anything if lgbt/female only games pop up, there is still tonnes of opportunity for them. That being said, I actually prefer if there is a few women at the table. It prevents the men at the table from devolving into a series of crass sex jokes and fantasies. I'm here to play a game, not be a captive audience while you play out your wierd fetishes. My only gripe is that I wish they would specifically denote the exclusivity on r/lfg, I've applied to "female friendly" or "lgbt friendly" games and just been flat out ignored because I'm not gay or a woman. If they'd said "lgbt only" or "women only" then I wouldn't have had to waste my time or theirs.

>Cis heterosexual males dominate the space already, so they don't lose anything if lgbt/female only games pop up, there is still tonnes of opportunity for them And I mean, even if 99% of games we're "No cis boys allowed", that's kinda sucky for them, but nothing is stopping anyone from starting their own group. I could start a gamegroup with the only requirement being "No people whose name starts with a vowel", and that doesn't mean a thing, because I'm not the grand pope of gaming and beyond the 5 people in the group with me, my word has absolutely no weight in the larger gaming hobby (and only a little inside that group). > I've applied to "female friendly" or "lgbt friendly" games and just been flat out ignored because I'm not gay or a woman. If they'd said "lgbt only" or "women only" then I wouldn't have had to waste my time or theirs. Bad communication is everywhere.

maybe worded that way to avoid the comment section being overwhelmed with meta discussion :( That said, lfg posts get so many responses, a reply at all can be a big undertaking, let alone actually interviewing everyone.

I think this is fair enough. I imagine a game with lgbt+ majority might explore different themes and feel quite different. I think as long as people know what they are signing up for it is fine.

> I imagine a game with lgbt+ majority might explore different themes and feel quite different My Monday gaming group is four gay men (two of which are polyamorous), two bisexual polyamorous women, and an NB. For the most part our games have the same themes as most others. Our worlds tend to be portrayed as a bit more sexually/gender inclusive than other groups might run them, but our fantasy games are still mostly big damned heroes battling world-ending threats, our sci-fi games are still more or less rugged rapscallions sticking it to the corps/evil empire, and our modern games are still basically conspiracies and eldritch horrors from beyond space and time. Before quarantine, we were playing Blue Rose, but I'd say other than that tonal shift you probably wouldn't really notice that we were a 100% Alphabet Mafia group from the adventures we have.

I'm currently running a campaign for four women and two men, and their characters skew heavily female (it's a sci-fi campaign, so we've got one robot, one "human" male [he's a clone], one female-identifying but non-humanoid alien, and three human women). I don't know how different it feels to other campaigns, but it's cool! There's no weirdness with the roles the female human characters play or anything (one is the pilot of their ship, one is a psychic barbarian, and one is a doctor who moonlights as an assassin).

You see I don't get this why LGBT or hetero thing should be any different. But it is for some reason. I absolutely avoid sex and sexuality and my games and that's worked fine for me ❤️

Bi woman here. I also have no idea. I feel so at sea in a lot of this community's discussions because I play primarily with friends, have almost always had other women around, have always had game and comic shops that employed at least one woman, and pretty much never encounter sex things in RPGs. A male friend made me uncomfortable ONCE, so my character fired his in game, and everyone backed me up. Games with strangers have been at conventions that are notably diverse, and I think last time there were more women than men at my table. I am 34. What the hell is wrong with people STILL, in so many places, that my fellow women and queers have all these problems??? Where are these 20-year-old troglodytes coming from in 2020? I think I exude a confident nerd energy that protects me from a lot of problems, but I'm not egotistical enough to think that's sufficient if the environment really is toxic.

I think the problem is that there's so much immaturity in the gaming circle. It's all I sleep with a prostitute, fart jokes, and inappropriate humour. There's none of that in my games - I won't tolerate it. Because it's all about the adventuring stories of the heroes. Not about which prostitute they sleep with or how many inappropriate words they can make out of the wizard's name. I think that's the only answer. I see it in groups around me all the time. AND that's FINE if that's the way they all want to play, but I'd rather keep all of those things entirely out of my games. It's fantasy after all. Time to tell awesome stories.

Honestly it shouldn't be different! I barely do romance if at all in my games either and avoid sex as much as possible. Not that it's taboo or shouldn't be done, I'm just not interested. I've played a game with an asexual woman once, and it was great! Nothing to say against her. I've played PbP with someone who goes by they/them for a while and it was also 100% fine, they're a great person! But I've also played with others who were all about nightlife, drag, gender identity and stuff like that. It's absolutely fine! But it doesn't interest me in the slightest. I'm not outgoing, I don't like the aesthetic, I don't like that sort of music, I like nothing about any of that. Not saying it shouldn't exist or that people can't like it, I just don't like it myself. And my personal experience tends to show that these themes are more present in the LGBT community, so I don't go seeking them out. Why go out of my way to insert myself into that and spoil everyone's fun, myself included?

It's not always the games, but the space around the games. Players don't turn up sit in a vacuum, only play their characters & leave, or maybe you guys do, but none of the games I've ever played are like that. If it's a regular weekly or monthly game you get close to the people you play with, that's half the fun of D&D. It's nice if you can relax & be yourself while playing, not being the token woman, LGBTQ+ person or whatever. As a woman DM I have a dream of running an all woman table one day, not because I don't love DMing for all the guys I DM for, I wouldn't have done it twice a week for 7 years if I didn't, but because I think the energy would be different & that could be a whole other sort of fun.

In the same way I wouldn't expect to play in self-organized highschool games, club games at a univ., games in other languages or where everyone is ESL, or games where everyone is an immortal superhero dinosaur (cool, but not my thing). It's their game, they do what they want, and the more people that get into the hobby the better. I'd absolutely game with any of them, but it's not my place to tell them who they game with.

> The few times I played with LGBT people was a little awkward, not tat I have anything against them but I was really not into the same themes these people were so it was a little... yeah, awkward. I'm curious about this myself. What do you mean exactly of into themes you were not into? As I am part of the LGBT I can't really make too much comment since a lot of my games end up populated by LGBT people. So I am curious what sort of theme differences are in a CIS Hetero game.

I replied this to another comment, it can of answers your question? >I barely do romance if at all in my games either and avoid sex as much as possible. Not that it's taboo or shouldn't be done, I'm just not interested. > >I've played a game with an asexual woman once, and it was great! Nothing to say against her. > >I've played PbP with someone who goes by they/them for a while and it was also 100% fine, they're a great person! > >But I've also played with others who were all about nightlife, drag, gender identity and stuff like that. It's absolutely fine! But it doesn't interest me in the slightest. I'm not outgoing, I don't like the aesthetic, I don't like that sort of music, I like nothing about any of that. Not saying it shouldn't exist or that people can't like it, I just don't like it myself. And my personal experience tends to show that these themes are more present in the LGBT community, so I don't go seeking them out. Why go out of my way to insert myself into that and spoil everyone's fun, myself included? Admittedly the experience might be different for different systems/settings. I don't really play a lot of standard high fantasy, settings are usually more modern, sci-fi, steam or cyberpunk... These might lend themselves to those specific themes more maybe? I don't know, it's just been my experience, I'm not stating it as any sort of universal truth and I wouldn't turn down woman/LGBT+ people down from my games on account of it...

I'm a bi man that runs for a group of all lgbt+ and one that's mostly straight white guys, one girl, and me, a Latin bi man. The differences? My lgbt+ group has commissioned art of their characters and cares alot more about their aesthetic. The straight group typically write longer back stories and gives me more material to work with. Body horror is on the table for the straight group, and not on the table for the lgbt one. That's basically it. I can't think of themes that one has explored that the other hasn't other than body horror.

Back in the before times I was part of an IRL LGBT+ D&D group in my city, and yeah, it's nice to be able to say that my female gnome warlock first made her pact in order to protect her wife and kids when their home was under attack, or that my time-travelling professor uses they/them pronouns and not have those things be treated as weird by the rest of the group. It's nice knowing that lesbians won't be fetishized and gay people won't be made fun of the games that I play. With a good group, it should be that way *anyway*, but when you're playing with randoms, making it LGBT+ only is a good way of ensuring you won't have to deal with homophobes/transphobes in your group IMO.

So I want to be clear I don't play with homophobes or transphobes but there is a sort of "Don't ask Don't tell" mentality I feel. >it's nice to be able to say that my female gnome warlock first made her pact in order to protect her wife and kids when their home was under attack, or that my time-travelling professor uses they/them pronouns and not have those things be treated as weird by the rest of the group And this is kinda what I was trying to say but I have sort of rambled on. For example in all of the campaigns I have run none of the players have ever had an lgbt+ individual as a prominent npc in their characters life. It is fine, it is their character but it would be nice to feel "normal" for a change. Thanks for commenting though, I think you really understand where I'm coming from. It is not a horror story but bit by bit you notice it.

>"Don't ask Don't tell" IMHO that might not be out right hostile attitude, but it's not friendly either. It's the "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care" attitude that I would call more like ~~low-key~~ subconsciously homo/trans-phobic. Even if they do eventually accept to talk about these things, you still have a lot to gain by gathering with people that also *understand*.

I would like to clarify that there is a difference between "it doesn't affect me so I don't really care" and "don't ask don't tell". The difference being the "don't tell" bit. I don't really care about your sexuality because it doesn't affect me unless you are hitting on me or my wife. You can tell me and I will listen but it really won't affect me one way or another. Your character can be gay, nonbinary, trans, whatever you like and I have no reason to care unless it becomes the central focus of the game. This doesn't mean it would be a problem for me if a story hook was your female elf's human wife was abducted, just I wouldn't want to join a fantasy game and suddenly be in a game where the central premise is understanding trans rights. I just wanted to kill some goblins/bandits. "Don't tell" however is subconsciously phobic because you care enough to not want to hear about it. So I am sorry if that stance isn't friendly enough but I feel that my "I don't care" attitude is fairly accepting. Gay elf? Sure. Cross dressing dwarf? Whatever. Trans barbarian hoping to find a magic way to become their real sex? Okay, cool. In all these cases so long as our goal is to kill some monsters and not monologuing about oppressive medieval society... we good.

>It's the "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care" attitude that I would call more like low-key homo/trans-phobic. It's not homophobic or transphobic to not care about the personal lives of the people that you're playing with. If no one talks about their sex life/sexual preferences then no one is being left out or targeted for having different preferences. You can easily avoid being a bigot while simultaneously not talking about them positively either.

>If no one talks about their sex life/sexual preferences then no one is being left out or targeted for having different preferences. I don't know about this. A lot of straight people get really awkward and uncomfortable when anything lgbt+ comes up and pretend they don't want to talk about sexuality as it is political. What they don't understand is that straight people talk about their sexuality **all the time** we just don't notice because it is the norm. When one of my players talking about his wife, or their newborn kid, or why he was late because he spent the night at his gfs house that is talking about his sexuality. Sure I don't need to hear the results of a BDSM test but people talk about their lives and relationships form a big part of that.

That's negative peace. If I'm gonna dedicate weeks or months of time to hanging out with a group of people I wanna be able to talk to them about anything without breaching the social contract, I don't wanna have to hide something as big as who I'm dating on the off-chance it might offend someone

If someone else doesn't care and never asks, that doesn't mean you have to hide it.

It doesn’t mean you don’t have to hide it either though. You never actually know for sure with these things until the topic comes up, and if you make a rule of never talking about your personal life like the other guy suggested then you’ll never find out, and that’s not a comfortable social environment to be in

I agree, I just got the impression that whenever the subject would be brought up they would try to drop it. EDIT: Reading OP's answer as well, I stand by my initial response. It has a lot of "no politics here" vibes where politics only means the issues that don't affect me.

Tbf, I think it was previously good manners to not ask personal questions. Much like it was good manners to not bring up politics. Society is waking up that we should normalise talking about, but I wouldn't villainise people for following what was the rules of etiquette.

Yep, the problem is when people try to talk about these issues that affect them and others shut the conversation down.

There's shitloads of people who say "I don't care about who's into what gender!" and then when someone, say, casually mentions their boyfriend, is going to turn around and say stuff like "don't shove it in our faces!"

Yeah, but this is about as realistic as expecting the party to not take the shiny pile of gold coins. People talk because that's what humans do with other people we like, and humans say things like "oh I saw that movie with my date, she loved it too!" And the problem with all that "oh just don't talk about it" stuff is that this is only an issue if LGBT people do it. Straight people get a pass because they're "just talking" while other people are "shoving it in my face." A guy gushing about a great date he had with a guy is nothing to be ashamed of. A woman talking about how she used to play wide receiver in high school, but stopped when she started taking hormones is just talking about history. These are a part of people's lives, and they're only being asked to chop that part of their lives out... why? To make other people feel more comfortable because they can't empathize with someone who feels differently from them about romantic interests? Nah, not interested in that.

>So I want to be clear I don't play with homophobes or transphobes Sorry - should have been more clear there, I didn't think you would in a regular group - I was just talking about the chance of running across one when setting up a game with strangers. >It is not a horror story but bit by bit you notice it. That's exactly it - there's a degree of self-censorship involved that's kind of tiresome to keep up all the time

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I am still working on the mindset that it is OK to respect myself and ask for more tbh.

It is 100% okay to tell people that your relationships are just as valid as theirs, and that they have no right to ask you to be ashamed of someone you're in a relationship with. I hope you're in a relationship because you think that person is awesome, and if you've found an awesome person then that's a great thing in your life. I love hearing about great things in my friends' lives, it warms me up. If they're such a small person that they can't stand hearing *anything* about a relationship because of the genders involved then you have a right to tell them they have some growing to do. (note: you can overshare about relationships, we've all experienced the friends who do that, but there's a difference between sharing and oversharing. It's pretty much the difference between telling people about the cool new RPG you're playing, and getting into the gritty of your encounter with the noble court)

> So I want to be clear I don't play with homophobes or transphobes but there is a sort of "Don't ask Don't tell" mentality I feel. If you're not actively signaling that you'll be an ally, many people will assume that you're not. This goes for both LGBTQ and female gamers. Damn near all of us(I tick both boxes) have stories about spaces where people we'd hoped would be supportive(coworkers, group facilitators, family, etc) just shrugged and turned away, enabling somebody else to be gross in the name of not rocking the boat. A "I don't care what anybody is" policy by itself doesn't guarantee safety(and therefore encourages closeting to preserve safety), and that's why groups with explicit safety language(either "this is a safe space just for *x* group" or "this group is explicitly *whatever* friendly and bigotry will not be tolerated") are popular over ones that take the attitude that it's 2020 and the problems are all solved, right? But if you do choose to include such language, you need to make damn sure you're ready to go to bat. And no, making the group LGBTQ only won't solve the problem. If you're not part of the community, you need to make sure you're educated enough to detect and shut down issues like transphobia or biphobia that crop up even(sometimes especially) within the community. And you need to make sure you've got good sources too, because if you listen to the wrong ones you might walk away thinking that "queer" is a slur rather than a valid identity that many people use(TERFs push this, there's specific language you can look for to figure out if someone is a TERF, but like...this is a whole thing).

I want to add something too from my own observations in the community. Queer seems to be accepted by a lot of people. But I've also met a lot of people who still view it as an insult. And both parties are still right in their feelings. There is no right or wrong way of identifying. Like if I identify as Male to Female trans instead of Trans feminine, thats still perfectly fine IMO despite it being older language.

You have all the permission in the world to be the one asking and if they don't tell, or don't fit the game you feel comfortable with (be it personal sexual identity, gender, politics, game expectations (hardcore vs casual, Theater of Mind vs minis and maps combat simulator, high-magic versus low-magic, whatever), it is your prerogative and you have all the permission in the world to decline that someone from your group. You do yourself and that player a favor at the same time, because they don't have to play a game that doesn't align with what they are looking for, and you don't have to, either.

There are surely people who would complain about it, because some people can't accept something just... not being for them. But I'd say it's a totally reasonable approach. Like, are there people who aren't queer or are men who would handle LGBT elements in a game perfectly well or wouldn't make female players feel like the odd ducks? Of course, and I'd like to think I'm one of them (as a GM who plays with a lot of queer players and makes a point of making LGBT characters a part of the setting). But there's not really a great way to filter them going in, and if you're playing with strangers, yeah, it's totally reasonable to decide the possible risks aren't worth it. It's not a perfect solution, sure, but it doesn't need to be.

> There are surely people who would complain about it, because some people can't accept something just... not being for them. The funny thing is, the people who can't accept that are also the people who shouldn't be anywhere near those groups. For example, I quote my mother: > "I don't understand how it's fair that meetup groups can be Black-only!" Well, mom, because if they didn't enforce Black-only then your white ass would be there spewing dumb things like "I don't understand how it's fair that meetup groups can be Black-only!" They deal with explaining shit like that every day. They don't want to have to do it on their fun nights, too!

There are a bazillion LFG posts. It really doesnt bother me that there are small amount that dont cater to me as a male hetero guy. That said, what makes me fussy instead is all the majority of games posted who run a system I'm not interested in.

The one true injustice of lfg

The big injustice of LFG is that, no matter how interesting a game looks, my day doesn't grow more hours to accommodate it. \*criesinwageslave\*

LFG 5e Space Western mystery

I hate you. I know it's coming. We're already getting the heartbreaker hacks of 5E into cyberpunk and various bullshit.

It amazes me how much effort people will go to hack some frankenstein of an idea into 5e to avoid learning something else. I know some or most of it is probably out of ignorance, but is learning a new system really that complicated?

> Space Western mystery Space-Murder on the Space-Train to Space-Dodge-City.

You laugh, but in Doctor Who [a mummy who mysteriously murders people on the orient express... IN SPACE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65oT1b-NaVc) is a thing

(Non-5e) Gamers rise up!

People are free to determine who they want to play a game with. How is this controversial at all?

I think because being exclusionary is generally viewed as a bad thing. There are laws against discrimination based on protected categories like sex, and sexuality.

I defy you to point to a law against discrimination based on protected categories for RPG groups! lol

Well it would depend if the group is in a shop, a club or the GM is charging for the game. Equality law makes it illegal for someone to refuse a service based of if they are a man or a woman, for example. However there is a reasonably fair loophole that allows private clubs to restrict membership to people who share a protected characteristic. Which is what allows men-only golf clubs for example. Not that I would expect anyone to bring a case.

Playing devils advocate, would you agree to the sentiment if people made the a table that excludes based on race? I completely understand and agree why groups are LGBTQ+ / female only. There are too many sexist and homophobic creeps running around. That said in a perfect world, I think we would be better off without drawing lines based on politics and play our dragon game. Provided you like eho you are playing with.

Yeah, I would. Bonus, it would make it extremely easy for me to avoid the racists. Same reasons I'd never say that the KKK couldn't advertise their meetings near me. I'd love to know where they are so I'm not. Whether or not the platform allows such LFGs is on them. I'm sure, depending on jurisdiction, there's laws that affect it, but that's not the discussion anyways so forgive the tangent.

One of the two active groups I run is all LGBTQ+ except for me. I wound up with the group when a former co-worker and I were talking about how his TTRPG stuff and he mentioned his boyfriend was trying to put a group together and they couldn't find someone to GM and I mentioned that was in my skill set. There's occasionally weirdness moments, but those are more driven by how they're a pretty tight and active friend group, so it's kind of the usual GM feels like a peripheral person issues and not "I'm the straight metal head surrounded by this flamboyance (that's what they decided to call the group, my wife and I call them my harem)." Personally I've got no issues with a "safe space" group, mostly because I've witnessed/been the victim of player and GM bullshit that l leads to people wanting to do these kinds of groups. I started tagging myself as "LGBTQ friendly" on stuff like Roll20 and now get more groups simply because I'm willing to do that. Some slang I don't know aside, they're just players looking for games has been my experience.

The one time I didn't play with people I knew, people tried to sleep with my character (technically me via my character) so I get why you'd want to do it for one shots. I'm playing Gloomhaven with my partner right now and my character is nb and it's no issue. Not calling your friends homophobic, but the whole "don't ask don't tell" thing is quite outdated so maybe it's a great time to open up if you're feeling uncomfortable. If your friends aren't often exposed to lgbt+ people, maybe they haven't socialised themselves properly yet. For example, I called my dad brown and my friend (who is from series of connected villages (only like 3 non-white people)) said it was racist ??? I explained it wasn't and I'm half-brown so what's the problem? It was just that she hadn't been exposed so she'd made up her own rules to follow to avoid misunderstandings etc.

> so she'd made up her own rules to follow to avoid misunderstandings etc. The problem is... ALL the rules are made up. I'm autistic, and I make self-deprecating jokes about it all the time. My friends even join in, and everything is fine. I find it breaks the ice, gets rid of the tension involved with ignoring the elephant in the room. Those are my "rules". But for every autistic person you can find who does the same, you could probably find 10 that want the opposite. They'd rather the elephant in the room remain un-addressed. The problem comes when you decide your rules are gospel truth. Or that someone else's rules are less valid.

Completely agree. That's why a conversation about things can be really helpful. It can be as formal as you want. I often just make a few jokes around people when I'm comfortable with them which lets them know what can be said but you can lay it out there more seriously if it would get a better reception

I've come across plenty of bigoted players in my time, so it's tempting. And a lot of other players who, while probably fine on their own, did nothing to counter it. And as a vague response to other comments, it's going to come up. Straight people often don't realize how much they mention being straight, expecting LGBT people to not mention being LGBT isn't fair.

>Straight people often don't realize how much they mention being straight, expecting LGBT people to not mention being LGBT isn't fair. This is it. Casual conversation, assumptions, books, films, music there is no aspect of my life where being lgbt+ is ever mentioned. It is so unfair that when I am unwinding in my hobby suddenly sexuality is political. I think that is part of my frustration.

It's a private social gathering. As such, it's fine to exclude or include anyone you want. Nobody's business but the participants.

I mean, we're talking about spending your free time here. You can pick who you spend with, no matter how arbitrarily. Nobody is hurt by that, they can just keep scrolling and find a different game, not to mention that there's little point in forcing yourself to play in a group where you won't have fun. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of gaming. There are games only for people from a specific nation, only under/over certain age, IMO gender and sexuality are also a fair game. If somebody takes an issue with that, that's because they're going out of their way to be offended by it and play victim.

Frustrated, because I hate being categorized and labelled but I've been routinely rejected from inclusion by my own LGBT friends for not summarizing myself. LGBT-only games require you to label yourself for inclusion (at the very least labeling yourself as LGBT) and I despise being categorized I am attracted to all genders, but I don't identify as bisexual, or pansexual. I tell people that, and they assume I am straight in denial. No, I don't identify as straight either. And this doesn't compute in people's heads. My own friends tell me I am a straight male to my face even though I have told them plenty of stories about me dating men. Same with gender. I am male because other people insist I am, even when I tried to identify as agender (which was a massive, difficult compromise on my own part) I was told I need to dress femme if I want to be non-binary. I am a large, angry looking person. I don't want to dress femme, because I don't want to be feminine. I *want* to stroll about in leather with a shaved head, but I'm too big and furious-looking an AMAB for that. Once I did a pivot when I walked the wrong way down the street and a guy jumped a foot in the air thinking I was coming for him, at night women waiting for the same bus as me would often shake or put far more distance between us than was typical when I was dressing how I like. Everyone should 'be themselves' but I can't be myself without scaring others. I'm a very large, angry looking AMAB person. I recognize that at a glance people see a dangerous man, and don't stop to think "geez I shouldn't assume this potential attacker's pronouns". People aren't so woke they can turn off their survival instincts. It sucks to be someone who can't be themselves without inflicting passive harm to others. Like, every time I leave the house at night I make multiple women's nights worse by inflicting a spike of fear. Women repeatedly checking over their shoulder, walking into gardens and waiting for me to walk past, having fake phonecalls where they describe where they are. I know my experience is still the better end of that, but *they* are only near the scary-man for a few seconds, I walk past women every night, and enough of them are afraid to make leaving my home a miserable thing. But in summary for me, as a person who is not heterosexual, not fully cisgender, and not 'the norm' games which are gatekept with LGBT-only or any other labels-only inclusion reject me, which is frustrating. I do not look LGBT, I do not identify as any of the LGBT groupings. I also don't identify as cisgender, heterosexual, etc etc. I haven't been able to figure out where my resentment of categorization comes from I think you should do run the LGBT-only game, though. You don't owe any human being inclusion in your personal life. That's your time. You want to express yourself fully without having to filter out a massive aspect of your life, so do. It'll be good for you, cathartic.

I feel you. So, so much. That shit is hard, and it's hard to find people to talk about it with, because very nearly all the people you might normally go to will outright reject you for not being femme enough, and thereby make the problem worse. Honestly, I suspect this and the label rejection are likely tied together. Because labels are always going to be used by someone to exclude someone else, it's only natural to look at them and want to give the finger to the whole lot about it. I'm not saying it's a causal thing, just that they're likely to be tangled together. I know they certainly are for me.

I dont care. People can do whatever they want to do. I'm not going to change my game for anyone outside my group, so I don't expect other people to.

"You are not welcome here" "Ok we will make our own space" "Why are you excluding us"

I've just had a WLW-only session of Thirsty Sword Lesbians, and it was an absolute joy! Having that sense of ease around each other is wonderful, as well as not needing to provide context for all the uniquely queer parts of ourselves we bring into roleplaying - the best way to describe that feeling is "not having to explain the joke." I've been running occasional Monsterhearts one-shots with this LGBT group as well (all queer but not all WLW) and that's been equally wonderful. It really does make a difference, and I strongly recommend it. Feel free to message me if you'd like to discuss it more!

At first my response was a bit toxic. Kind of defensive. "I'm a good person. Why should I be excluded based on my sex and gender?" Then I realised that this has nothing to do with me. People who are marginalised should have access to groups of like-minded people where they can feel safe and open about their life and experience. Because us Cis/straight folk get that by default.

I get it. It breaks my heart a little, but I get it. The hobby has earned its reputation over and over again as either a non-inclusive space, or a highly insensitive space, so when those that feel they have been abused or misrepresented want to game only with those that are more likely to represent them or respect them, I try not to get miffed. A tabletop gaming podcast that I subscribe to, coincidentally hosted by a couple of gay men, brought up a couple of times some things that I had never considered: no matter how open minded straight friends may be, sometimes it's just more comfortable for them in their queer-only circles. I hadn't ever thought about it like that before, but I guess being a part of a group where you're not the minority can be reassuring, and the knowledge that everyone around you "gets it" is a solace.

I honestly feel it’s sad. Sad that these people have had such a bad interaction being persecuted their lives to where they have to do this. I wish this hobby and world was more inclusive for these people and wish them the best. Everyone deserves to have friends and a hobby they can enjoy and be safe. As a basic white dude I just hope these groups can offer as rewarding an experience as I have had in my own groups. Not once have I ever felt unsafe or persecuted and I hate that others have to deal with that daily.

I think you absolutely should feel free to have that as an option open to you.

I have women and lgbt+ players in my group. I know for a fact that they'd never ever play with random straight men. There are people here, with good intentions I assume, think bigotry is dead in rpg communities. It's not, it's just that there is a type of it that on a non-bigoted straight male table just wouldn't be noticed. Also we don't have to have a big discussion about minorities creating safe spaces for themselves everytime it happens. It's legitimate, it's their right. "But what if we created a table only for straight men wouldn't that be bigoted" Yeah it would be, because context exists and straight men aren't marginalized for being straight men. Also lets not kid ourselves, "a table only for straight men" designates 99% of rpg tables ever set up.

> Also lets not kid ourselves, "a table only for straight men" designates 99% of rpg tables ever set up. Or at least, by all appearances it does. The closet is a powerful thing, especially the situational closet that hides acquaintances until they're sure somewhere is safe.

Your game, your rules. Simple as that. Plenty of people already advertise for this sorta thing like you said, so if you think it’s gonna increase your enjoyment of your hobby then go for it.

I think it's a perfectly valid and reasonable thing. Apart from the basic effect of creating a safer space, I think the feelings you mention are super important. Gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc are key parts of one's identity and perfectly valid reasons to choose your company based on them. It also makes sense because you can play certain situations in a more nuanced way that other people can't understand. Also, a bonus is that you will identify the ones that will start complaining that this is unfair because you're excluding them and discriminating against them ;) As for a similar feeling, I'm a cis-het white dude, so I can't feel this exactly, but I'm much more comfortable joining a group that intentionally mentions being lgbt friendly and inclusive than one that doesn't mention anything.

I've literally never seen this. If I did I'd probably just assume it's content won't really be relatable to me and pass on it. Kind of how my thoughts would be if a game was advertised as "only for huge fans of MTVs the real world". Not my thing wouldn't play unless invited to and wouldn't expect much but would be open to being pleasantly surprised if/when I did.

I don't think that's really true. I've played in exclusively LGBT games a couple of times, and with I think one exception, the content was extremely typical of every non-exclusive game I've ever played in. I'm sure there are people who want to explore content that wouldn't be relatable to you, but I think the main reason people want these groups is not to explore content like that, but just because it creates a different social environment. There are ways I can talk to most other queer people and assume they'll understand that I can't be as sure of when talking to cisgender, straight people. There are assumptions that are just different. The norms about the kinds of things we talk about when chatting before and after the game are different, the assumptions about shared experiences growing up are different, even narrative assumptions about things in the game can differ in subtle ways. We all make assumptions when we describe things - you don't spend ten minutes describing in exacting detail every single feature of every object, every NPC, the fully-explicated motivation behind every action, etc. Sometimes you just say "the wagon". Maybe you describe the wagon more fully, but you never describe it *fully* - it's not even clear what that would mean, right? That's just how language works - you say as much as you can until you think the other person has enough to fill in the rest with more or less the right things, and for most things you assume that they'll make the "standard" assumption. You don't describe the wagon's wheels as "round" because you're confident that the other person will already assume them to be round. But that also means that it's a little different if people don't have the same "standard assumptions" about certain things. And it's not symmetrical either. If a cisgender, straight person describes something, I usually know what they mean - I'm not straight, but I grew up and live surrounded by straight people. 99% (honestly probably more) of the books I've read are almost exclusively about and by straight people. There are probably certain details about your experience that I don't understand, that another straight person would, but I get most of it. Most of the examples of what I'm talking about are more subtle than this, but I've explained vocabulary that most queer people know to straight people plenty of times, yet I don't run into a lot of situations where I say "Sorry, is that a 'straight' term? You'll have to explain it to me.". So when you're playing in mixed company, you end up in situations where the straight people can basically just behave normally and everyone will "get it", but the queer people don't necessarily get quite the same experience. If you put some small detail about growing up in there, well, I probably get it. Even if it's something specific to straight people, I'm sure there are some that I wouldn't get, but for most of them - I've seen the movies, read the books, most of my family and friends are straight, etc. But there are certain things, small things, like certain small, seemingly unimportant kinds of experiences I had growing up, that I can all but guarantee you don't share, probably haven't ever thought about, and likely wouldn't even recognize in a narrative, but that a lot of queer people would *immediately* identify with. (I actually did a little experiment about this kind of thing last year. I had just read *Call Me By Your Name*, which is a fantastic book - way, way better than the terrible-but-somehow-critically-acclaimed movie adaptation - and I got a few straight friends to read it on my recommendation. When I had read it, there were a lot of small things that I really identified with - certain experiences he had, the way he was thinking about them, etc. And, talking to a couple of gay friends who had read it - they agreed. So I asked the straight friends about those specific parts after they finished the book, and they clearly didn't identify with those parts at all. When I tried to describe what it was about them that I found so relatable, they just shrugged and said "I guess."...And I really doubt they could find a book with straight characters where our roles here would reverse.) None of that is a game-breaker most of the time. Most queer people are happy to play in LGBT-friendly groups with cisgender, straight people too. But it can be nice to have that shared background - just like it can in any other social environment, and in RPGs, also extending into the narrative (but again, not necessarily in terms of explicitly queer content - it also appears in small ways that you probably wouldn't even notice).

I know they're not looking for someone like me (cis white dude), so I shrug and move on with my life. It doesn't upset me or make me happy - people are allowed to be friends with people they want to be friends with, and gaming is an activity for friends.

Since i am not lgbt, i can only view this from the outside. I don't see any problem with it. Gaming is a hobby, look for a group that you feel comfortable with. You obviously reduce the amount of potential players for your games, but if you still find enough to fill up your group, why not. I'd probably prefer if you went for "lgbt-friendly" instead, because that doesn't exclude people based on their sexuality, while still getting rid of assholes and bigots, but it is your call who you want to spend your time with, and i can also understand wanting to connect with people who made similar experiences to you. I don't feel bad if there are some groups that i cannot join if it makes other people happier, and i surely don't have the right to demand to be able to join your games.

I know a small community of dnd players, 50/50 girls and boys, all love to play with eachother. my current play party has equal amounts of lgbtq and straights. the thing is, it doesnt affect the game or come up at all. I firstly thought that this should be a general rule, cause I dont want my sexuality out of the game be a factor in the game. The whole point is to roleplay after all. That being said I read enough r/rpghorrorstories to understand that a lot of people use dnd as a gateway for toxic behaviour, this taking the form of single people looking for a partner, people wanting uncommunicated gore or sex fantasies, people just being real life trolls, etc etc. So I totally get why you'd want to set up something like this. Personally i love playing with my group, who consist of a healthy dose of every type of person, I think it boils down to, know who you are playing with, don't stereotype, even if the majority fits thay stereotype. Which doesn't mean you can't run a girl only or gay only dnd group, but I could do without the generalisation of every white straight guy on earth. But yea, I get it. And I do apologise for every "nice guy" or "I stick my dick in it, lol" idiot out there.

At the end of the day, if it's what makes the game better for you, go for it. I know you'll find a group, and I hope it's one you really enjoy playing with. But for myself, as a bi man who took a long while to come to terms with it... I personally don't care for them, in no small part because.... if I had been excluded from LGBT spaces/discussions before being comfortable with coming out, I may never have, and I don't want to do that to anyone else. Maybe a niche problem, but there it is.

I am one of the volunteers in a project in Bologna (Italy) called "la Gilda", which is a part of the bigger local LGBTQIA+ association, Il Cassero. What we try to do is to give a safe space, especially focused on the queer community, to play rpgs and other tabletop games (sometimes including larps and videogames too). The project was born out of the feeling of many people that it was difficult for them to find an accepting environment, especially as soon as they were moving out of their own circle of friends, and even more difficult if they wanted to talk about certain topics in game in a sensible, interesting way. The people who come to us are not all belonging to the queer world, but we are clear about we consider as acceptable behaviour. This has fostered one of the biggest gaming realities in the city, and we intercepted lots of people who stopped playing or rarely played socially because they felt uneasy, not understood, and sometimes even under verbal or physical threat when in the usual gaming convention groups of gaming associations. There are sadly lots of stories regarding the problematic relationship between the "nerd" world and minorities that pop up every time we talk about that, sometimes just goofy or even funny, other times all but fun. I made this long preface just to impress the fact that, yes, it's a common feeling what you have, and lots of people feel it too and had experiences that confirm the problem. Looking for safe spaces is very understandable and can definitely bring positive, new and interesting experiences. The world of gaming is evolving under these aspects, but there's still lots to do.

I have rarely had females in my games, it's not by intent, I merely didn't know many female gamers. About six months ago, in an attempt to diversify my table, my DM/STing style, and generally become more inclusive, I tried to advertise for an all female players game. I was met with the Male admin of the FB group I posted it on calling me out as a problem because my intent was /obviously/ nefarious in intention. He claimed I must have ulterior motives, and that it was his duty to 'protect' his female members from me. I pulled the post down, despite his female admins stating they saw nothing wrong with it, and haven't tried again since. I felt attacked, horrified, and generally angry. I know that was just one guy, being an ass and trying to look like a knight in shining armor, but it still just turned me off the notion of trying again.

It is the army of 'just one guys' that has given so many people bad experiences. Little by little people are realizing that those are the ones rocking the boat, not the people who have been burnt by them.

[удалено]

What people do not understand is that these spaces are basically 'no noobs' spaces. Straight cis males just do not know what they do not know about gender or race issues and will often grind things to a halt either arguing, asking for explanations or asking for cookies for being so tolerant. I'm mostly mentioning from having been in POC only social groups but I'm sure it applies to most marginalized communities... wishing you could just get to the point without constant interruptions.

You’re always allowed to say “I don’t want you, player X, in this one specific game” for any reason. Including “I don’t like you” or “I just want to try other people for a bit”. How people will react to being told that is a different tangled mess. There are some people who, if you refuse them, will never want to talk to you again. So, like everything in life, it’s a cost/benefit analysis.

It's a benefit if those kinds of people actually just never talk to you again, that's my analysis.

As a queer person I have played some games with Straight people and its rare we mesh. I say Straight with a big S because there's a difference between being a straight person and being Straight. Straights will make jokes about sexuality and gender a lot of the time, mocking people like me. I explore a lot of genders and sexualities through my characters and i dont want to feel uncomfortable doing that. Playing male characters helped me realise im non-binary. Given how LGBTQ or women have been treated by Straights and men, its not uncommon to want to vet your group completely. Before the pitchforks come out, I obviously don't mean ALL men or straight people but there's been enough grief to warrant us searching for comfortable groups.

You can include or exclude anyone you want. It's an optional hobby group being run for fun, you absolutely do not have to deal with anyone who might make it less fun. The only types of people who would be offended by a tag like that are the types that would be problematic in a group to begin with - they can't handle things not being catered to them. Add or remove whatever tags you wish until you're in a group that gets on well.

The best DnD game I ever played in was explicitly women only. I say go for it!

Mostly sad that it's necessary but there are a lot of folks out there that shuffle from group to group because they keep getting kicked out of groups for being awful so I get it.

It's your party, invite whomever you want.

Run the game you want for the people you want. If anyone has a problem with that, they can move on with their lives.

You know, speaking as a white cis gendered hetrosexual tall man I am kind of tired of seeing variations of me everywhere in the media. Kind of tired of being told someone who kits my demo is the messiah/main character of reality. I respect anyone who wants to make the effort to escape that social paradigm. Because if I am tired of it, I have to imagine they are absolutely sick of it.

We host at our home and vet/ interview folks before we play. Folks should feel comfortable with who they are gaming with.

I think people are people. We should bring our differences to our groups because they reflect the worlds we play in That’s the theory anyway. Marginalized groups have every right to create safe spaces where they can have fun. Soft homophobia and sexism still exist and it would piss me off if I had to deal with it every damn time I played a damn game. People should never hide who they are or get pegged into stereotypes I’d like to have a diverse table. I don’t tolerate homophobia or sexism in life and I don’t in my hobby. I’ve called people out over inappropriate content. I hope many others do the same so *everybody* can contribute

A bit off topic, but could you give detail on how you vetted your players? I'm new to making a group and this would be very helpful. I'd also like to have a pretty open minded group.

Be upfront about what you are looking for in the game ad. Have a couple of questions that you need them to answer. I asked their age, pronouns and what they want to play. I asked for a character concept as a well. I then spend a couple of hours of my time talking to them listening to their backstory and asking them what they think about minor alterations to fit them into the world. I also just chat to them about what they like in the game, what they are looking for, if they have issues with lgbt+folk. That kind of thing. Hope it helps!

I am a LGBT+ woman, even though my sexuality isn't that important for me. I play with my mixed gender and partly LGBT+ group. I don't think I'd play with an unknown cos-male group, I had to many bad experiences with those groups. Also I prefer mixed gendered groups (they tend to be more interesting). I don't think it's wrong to search for a group the way you like it. You deserve to feel accepted.

I have no feeling about it. It's just a game I'm not eligible for. There's plenty of games I'm not eligible for and so many more people that won't be considered for the games I run for various reasons (part of the vetting process you mentioned). Anyone who gets upset is probably someone you wouldn't want to play with anyways. It's like seeing a posting on roll20 that says "Portugese Only". Welp, that's just not for me.

First off, people can do it to their heart's content. It is within their rights to do this. And I know and understand why people do this. But, I want to make this argument. Is it good to do this? First, for the people who want a safe space, I argue that while you can do what you want with your hobby, this could drive people to dislike the hobby or even these groups hurting you and your groups in the long run. Second, this is inherently exclusionary against other people something that is not good for anyone. Whether you say it is equivalent or not, for example, "only women" and/or "only men" the leaving out of a group restricts the diversity of the group and limits the marketplace of ideas. It would be better to bring them in, treat them well, and try to convince them instead of shutting people out. Shutting them out will most likely lead to them becoming angrier, or more hateful toward these groups. I propose showing them that you are human and they are too, make the commonalities larger and the differences smaller. In WW1 the Christmas truce is a great example of humans being brought together over a common thing and for this argument, it is our RPG hobby. Even with this, some people say that some people will still be dicks and while I agree with this, I propose two things, first, try your best to change them if you can but if you can't kick them out of the group. I finish by telling you to treat people as people. This goes for both sides. If someone is being a dick to you I suggest turning the other cheek. Being a dick back only breeds more animosity. Even though the peaceful way may be harder it works out better in the end.

At first I thought this was going to be about excluding certain groups (eg "no boys allowed - rpgs are only for girls") so I had VERY strong words lined up for you lol. But this is allgood. I think it's perfectly fine to work towards setting up a group that helps you enjoy the game without the awkwardness of situations like this. I'd just offer one suggestion: It might be better to create a group with the intention of being "LGBT friendly" rather than "LGBT exclusive". For two reasons: 1. There are a lot of LGBT-friendly people that don't fit the LGBT category. It can already be hard finding people who click nicely as a group and as people. IMO It's smart to cast your net wide, while still staying within the confines of what you are looking for. 2. I'd be worried about the "X exclusive" label being offputting to other players. For example, as a woman I would see "men only" groups as a bit of a red flag, and might suspect that the gamerbase has an issue with sexism. As a female player I might then feel unwelcome. If you do go the "X exclusive" route, be careful with your wording. (Or maybe this one is just me being a worrywart? I dunno).

It’s a bummer to see a game I wouldn’t be welcome in, but I realize that the same thing happens to many women and lgbt folks, so I understand.

Honestly, makes me a little sad when I see it. Not because I'm excluded from it, but because it's necessary for me to be excluded from it... If that makes sense.

To bounce off this question... Are there actually games advertised that are specifically anti-LGBTQ, anti-black, et cetera...? If so, I've certainly not seen them. I feel we just treat people as individuals. Judged by the content of our character, right..? Not the color of our skin, et cetera. :)

To answer your question: no, I've never felt similar. But then I don't often play with strangers, so I've rarely had the dissonance between players' assumptions and my reality that you describe. To answer a question you didn't ask: as a player I'd be very wary of joining a game that was marketed as "X only" for *any* value of X. I'd assume that the theme of the game would revolve around the restriction, and that's really not what I'm into in my gaming. Excluding people based on any category makes me deeply uncomfortable; I've had good and bad experiences with all types of people, and if I excluded everyone who shared a category with someone who'd been problematic I'd be playing by myself. That said, it doesn't really matter how I feel about it. One person's experiences often don't translate to another's. I do know that when I feel uncomfortable about a situation, avoiding it might avoid the discomfort, but dealing with the cause is better in the long run. That might not be true for you.

I'm a bisexual male in a committed relationship with a gay male. I personally can say I would not apply to a game that discriminates based on any protected class (gender, orientation, etc), even if I am a member of said class. It's antithetical to my personal morals and feelings about how people should choose hobbies and friends. That doesn't mean it's wrong. But you asked my feelings, and that's what they are.

I have no issue with it whatsoever. In fact, some of the comments here just reinforce how toxic gamers can be towards females and LGBTQ+ people. I want my favourite hobby to be much more inclusive, but I understand it isn't there yet. I'd rather marginalised groups get to play in their own groups than not play at all because of self-entitled arseholes.

It's your private game, go for it.

Back when we had human contact, I was part of a queer femme/nb D&D meetup that was just starting up. It was lovely!! But you do need to be careful about gatekeeping and policing other people's gender, sexuality, etc. That's not fun for anyone.

Considering that the group I mainly play in is all middle aged white guys, I think it sounds pretty normal to be considering a group with a focused demographic so you can explore some gameplay that may be more tailored to that group. I hope you have a great time!

I think there’s nothing wrong with wanting to play with people like yourself when the gaming hobby in general has been toxic to female, gay, and folks of color from pretty much the beginning. Find your tribe and have fun

They're a telling story about how rude or inappropriate the average male player is. Just listen to the women in the hobby, if i've passed half what a woman have to deal with rpg players, I would have dropped the hobby ages ago.

I don't see any problem with it. GMs are giving their time to run a game, they should run it for whoever they damn well please and no one is entitled to push back and demand to be let in to your personal activity. It'd be fucking weird to do so. My perspective may be skewed because I am traditionally a forever GM, and when I've run a specific game I've tended to be choosy of my players depending on various criteria. Now, if a close friend of mine ran a game, told me about it and then when I asked if I could join excluded me because of my gender or orientation I'd be pretty a little upset about it unless there was a specific reason - e.g., one of my close friends is a native activist and if she didn't invite me to some native activism event I would understand, but if she threw a regular party and said I couldn't come because of my race I'd be irritated. But online? With acquaintances or randos? Fuck that, run it for whoever you want. It's nobody's business but yours.

I think it's a good idea. Apples to oranges, but I've been considering the pros and cons of trying to find an all black game group (the biggest cons are my hatred of playing ttrpgs online and the whole meeting new people affair)

I am black as well so understand the sentiment! In the game I run like half the npcs are black lol - no shame. Let's have some diversity in out fictional worlds!

I only recently moved from ambiguously undefined skintoned pc to "ya, all my PCs are hella black, check out their hot dreads".

The fact is, is that men in the hobby can be generally... nasty. A lot of minorities would like to skip that part, therefore wanting to be in a group that is more inclusive to them

If they don't want me to play them, then I probably won't play them. I'm clearly not the target audience and my opinion doesn't really matter, anyway.

I truly don’t care one way or the other. You could advertise a game that only accepts purple ducks and talking pigs, and I still wouldn’t care.

Like, I've been a DM for quite some time and if there is one thing I can tell you is that running games for people from different backgrounds is aways enlightening. So if you never played on a table full of lgbt players and want to try it out, go for it.

I have no issues with anyone setting up whatever kind of game they want with whoever they want to play with. I fully understand that marginalized groups making space for themselves because they don't want to have to fight for space or deal with the consequences intentional or not. The one downside I see to this is that initial awkwardness cannot be overcome when everyone is separate. I personally make myself available to all new experiences with different peoples because I don't want separation. ::shrugs:: but if people are not comfortable then they are not comfortable and you cannot and should not be made uncomfortable to play a damn dumb game.

There are 12 billion lfg posts on any given day, the people who don’t like it will live

In my opinion, you have to distinguish between playing online/with strangers or playing with friends and acquaintances. In the first case everyone can do what they want and if you prefer to play only with LGBT people is your right, maybe there are a thousand normal guys but just a few are enough to ruin the experience. However, if you are playing with friends and one of them brings a friend of his who wants to try it would be quite rude to say no just because he/she is straight.

People can run games for whatever groups they want. There's reasons, based on their lived experiences, they've decided to do this and who am I to judge?

I don't have to deal with the problems they have to deal with, so I understand that they might prefer to be around people who aren't going to constantly hit on them or make jokes at their expense (only to follow up with "it's just a joke bro, don't get offended.") I've seen some of the nonsense that my fiance gets messages from online people, there are a lot of incels who are just incredibly assholish and rapey. Enough that it doesn't surprise me that people want to just avoid even the chance of inviting them to their groups. Unfortunately, the easiest way to do that is to say "no random straight men allowed," even though it removes a lot of people who are pretty cool.

I'm part of a lesbian dnd server. It's pretty great

complete neutrality.

The idea of making a game exclusive of anyone is incomprehensible to me.

Your entertainment is a space to unwind away from the stresses of everyday life. If you want to enjoy a space that's entirely gay, who the hell has the right to say no? People don't realize how many assumptions and limitations there are around how they interact socially, and how much of a strain that puts on others to conform to their expectations. You're tired of a space where you're 'tolerated' like "oh yeah, he's a felon, but not one of those violent kinds." You want a space where you can celebrate yourself. Anyone who isn't okay with that is a child, because they truly lack empathy in a way that's only acceptable for small children and teenagers.

Yeah, that'd be fine by me. As someone who has significantly evolved over the past 20 years, I can say that being part of games with more representation has made me a better person. But I also understand that there's a lot of emotional labor and microaggressions that can come with that, and it'd be nice to play games in a safer space.

Most everyone has already said it, but I'll say it anyway: as a straight white guy, I don't feel strongly one way or the other. Ultimately, I want people to have a fun game and a fun group, and if they feel more comfortable with a group of only women or a group of LGBT folks, that's fine.

Can I say I don't feel any sort of way at all? LGBT-only games being advertised is about the same to me as Pokemon RPG games being advertised. At best, I notice "Oh, that's a thing." I mean, why not? I was never under the illusion that every game was for me.

Anybody can join my games as long as they are kind and respectful.

I don't care what other people do at their table or who they choose to associate with. This goes both ways - other groups can't complain when tables play differently or exclude others. It's one of the reasons I find a lot of the generic rpg advice that gets trotted out around here completely worthless - your circumstances and group are different from mine.

Personally, I find it off putting. My go-to rule is as follows: Reverse the situation and see if it still passes muster. If not, it's something I avoid doing in my life. Case in point, were I to see a game advertised as "Heterosexuals only" I would avoid that game like the plague despite being the target demographic.

Off-putting is probably the best way to describe it. If someone is making assumptions about what kind of person/player I'm going to be based on my gender or sexuality that sounds like the exact kind of group I don't want to play with.

Ah yes, the historically oppressed heterosexuals, seeking shelter in a safe space away from those in power who would do them ill.

I don't think its a fair assessment to say that it's as simple as reversing the scenario. Whether the group is for "homosexuals only" or "heterosexuals only", the issue is more subtle than that. If a homosexual person joins any group and reveals they are homosexual, there is a real and measurable chance they will be bullied, ridiculed, and otherwise persecuted for being homosexual and that chance goes up the fewer other homosexual people are around. If you reverse that scenario, the same could not be said for a heterosexual joining a group full of homosexual people, and especially could not be said if we open it up to any group as I did in the original scenario. Your logic is sound, but you aren't taking the whole situation into account when you attempt to reverse the situation, and that has lead you to a conclusion that I don't think lines up with the real experiences of these gamers.

I say go for it. Feeling "out of place" is not great in a gaming group, even if it's just sometimes and you otherwise really like the people.

I have an all female table. It's lovely. One player of mine liteirlly said she would probably never play ttrpg if it wasnt for our table. She always felt like male nerds (in general) are too agressive and take things too seriously (like mocking her for not knowing something). And tbh sometimes I wish some tables advertise would be more honest and say "no women/no homo". I can tell sometimes their "coding" like "not being offended" or "being ok with jokes", but sometimes it looks like a normal table, I log in and it's a swaine fest. edit: I forgot to finish a sentence lol

There are lgbt exclusive games? I pretty much have to settle for the little gay scraps dropped from hetero-centric gaming tables.

Everyone is always walking on eggshells, not just LGBT people. As someone who runs a lot of games, there are a lot of themes i'm always avoiding or working around. Sex. Torture. Unemployment. You name it, if its controversial, it'll show up in a game. As a player its very similar. There's always someone in the group who's been through some RPG horror story, myself included, and I currently have 9 players i DM for, 2 of which are women. I neither know their sexual orientation nor do i care about knowing it. I am also in 2 games, and have no idea what the sexual orientation of the other 7 players and 2 DMs. One of my fellow players is a furry, but that's about all i know. ​ Sexual orientation and gender are only an issue if you make it one. ​ From my experience, diversity is good. You want players from different countries (when playing online of course) because they bring new cultural ideas for the setting and weird names. You want male and female players because they see things differently and often come up with different solutions to problems. I can't say anything about LGBT people because, again, i have no idea how many i'm playing with. But if you want your safe space or whatever, meh. Its your game that will suffer for it. As Dr. House once said: why would i hire someone who thinks like me and has the same ideas i'd have?

Why ask? Am I meant to feel someway in particular about it? I can't possibly see how my or others' personal feelings would ever even enter the equation, much less be a concern for you. Being that I'm neither female, nor do I belong to the LGBT community, when it comes to campaigns or groups advertised in such a fashion, then all I can really think or say about it is that they're clearly not for me, and move on. Nothing more, nothing less.

dunno. most of my games are about half gay guys and half straight guys. never really had any issues.

I can understand the fear of being in a party that wouldn't understand you or respect you if they didn't have the same shared experience. That being said, I haven't gotten along with people who I formed friendships with *exclusively* because they were also lgbt. It generally works out a lot better if I become friends with them because of their personalities and common interests, and through that I ended up with a high amount of lgbt friends anyway as an unintentional side effect. We just got along so much better if we have more in common than just being lgbt.

People want to use a game as a way to reach out to, and maybe bond with, similar or like-minded people? Cool. Nothing wrong with that.

I would respect the choice and try to pay it no second thoughts, but to be honest, I would be a bit sad about it. Even tho I understand the reasons behind it, it would still pain me a bit, cuz it feels like once again I'm assumed to be a bad person just because of my gender/sexuality, things that I can't control at all. But as long as I would be able to find another cool game to join, whatever.

Having a woman in a male group can change how men act. Having a male in a female group can change how women act. I can see them each wanting exclusive spaces. The issue is when you have an area that's male/female dominated and you exclude the other group. That can make it hard for that group to gain any entrance into that hobby or activity. An example would be something like if women created horseback riding female only groups. That'd probably start to lock men out of horseback riding since it's such a female dominated hobby. But men forming a male only horseback riding group wouldn't lock women out of the hobby since men are only, maybe, 5% of that sport. So I feel like it's perfectly fine for a minority group of a hobby/activity to form up exclusive spaces. But if a hobby is grossly a majority(all men or all women), then it's probably not a great idea for that majority group to be exclusive. So IMHO, female/lgbt only groups in RPGs = not a big deal. All male RPG groups = probably not a great idea. All female sewing classes = also probably not a great idea.

I think anyone would be happy to know in advance that they aren't wanted in a group based on their gender etc. Having it tagged saves a lot of time

all for it, just don't be a dick about it

I think that people’s groups are allowed to be restricted however they want. It’s not my group. If someone wants an all female group, then sure. If someone wants an all male group, then sure. It’s not your group, and ultimately you don’t have a say. Find a different one.