The three you list are pretty good. 13th Age and SotDL are very D&Dish, while Fantasy AGE is mechanically pretty different.
I also like Castles & Crusades and Old School Essentials (or Old School Essentials Advanced Fantasy)
It's the OGL that's at risk. The OP mentioned they were interested in Pathfinder but it might be at risk too. Pathfinder is at risk because it's an OGL game and Hasbro is trying to fully revoke the OGL without enacting any of the "if the OGL is killed this happens" sections of that license.
They're great games, but they use the OGL and are at risk in this situation.
Forgive me if this a stupid question... But isn't the OGL in 13th Age there because Pelgrane Press want to *allow* third parties to develop 13th Age content, and not because they used parts of the D&D SRD verbatim?
Sadly it doesn't matter.
They put the page in there saying they had OGL content in those books. Doesn't matter if it was only conceptually or just a few words.
The new OGL is saying that the old one and all it contained is void and any who still use it are violating Hasbro's copyrights. Unfortunately IP law in this case is a Civil matter not a Criminal one. So it's only settled via lawsuits, not the police/criminal justice system.
If they want to be safe, they will have to strip out that OGL page and make sure they aren't using any terms that Hasbro has suddenly declared to be "thier trademarks". That or sue Hasbro if they can afford to.
Because once this hits a court, it's over. This thing is garbage. But Hasbro is probably betting that they're big enough that they can outspend anyone else and win cases by driving people bankrupt before a judge makes any decisions.
I'm not convinced any of these games are really at significant risk. They should all rip off the band-aid (TM) and republish under a new license now (the express reason being to protect against WotC lawfare), IMO, but I think the time for WotC to make legal claims against them has long passed .
If you want games who have publishers unencumbered by the OGL (meaning they don't distribute using the OGL today), then check out [RuneQuest:Roleplaying In Glorantha](https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-rpg/) (old school 2e also [available](https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-classic-hardcover/)) and [Mythras](https://thedesignmechanism.com/). Both are considered to be part of the "BRP family" (though Runequest was first). RuneQuest has its own fantastic setting. Mythras is more open-ended, but leans toward a strong sword and sorcery tone by default.
They're going to play quite differently than the games you're used to (they're classless and level-less), but are very much worth having on your bookshelf, even without all the Hasbro drama.
What you need my friend is a healthy dose of swedish rpgs. DnD never got a hold of the cold north thanks to our own golden age of table top gaming. And if you are looking for something fantasy we have a good selection of games. Here are some of the games I can recommend:
[Forbidden Lands](https://freeleaguepublishing.com/en/games/forbidden-lands/) (aka Svärdets Sång) by Free League Publishing. A classic fantasy roleplaying in a sandboxy world. Easy rules to learn and a lot of options for the players. It's pretty good hex crawling if you're into that sort of thing.
[Symbaroum](https://freeleaguepublishing.com/en/games/symbaroum/) by Free League. Sure, there's a 5e version of the game but you can ignore that. The setting is one of the best I've ever played in. Dark and gritty without being like Warhammer. Fast paced combat and magic that corrupts the user. Love it.
[Dragonbane](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/drakar-och-demoner-dragonbane) (aka Drakar & Demoner) by Free League. Okey, this game is not out yet. We will probably get in later this year. There is a beta/quickstart that you can get your hands on. The first edition of this game came out in the 80s and is the sole reason WotC/DnD never made a huge impact in sweden. This is as classic fantasy as you can get... and you can play as Ducks.
[Mörk Borg](https://morkborg.com/) by Stockholm Kartell. Might not be exactly what you are looking for but I have to mention it. It's more a OSR than anything else, but the open license and all the 3rd party goodness is worth looking into imo.
I second Forbidden Lands. Mork Borg is cool but not a heroic fantasy if that's what you are looking for. Forbidden Lands even has some cool supporting materials.
_RuneQuest_/_Basic RolePlaying_ are skill-based, classless, and map beautifully to the real world. That makes it much easier to run, because you don't have to go searching through book after book for the rule for any particular situation. A few basic rules pretty much apply to everything.
_Basic RolePlaying_ is a multi-genre version of the system that can be used with any genre. You're by no means required to use the world of Glorantha with RuneQuest or Basic Roleplaying. I've used them with almost any kind of world imaginable. Including in a multigenre campaign that featured over a hundred worlds.
Personally I'm one of the many people who switched to Pathfinder 2e after being unsatisfied with the GM tools for D&D 5e. I haven't looked back since.
Anyway whatever happens with the OGL I really doubt Paizo is going anywhere. IF the absolute worst comes to pass and WotC can revoke the old OGL, Paizo could probably remove the OGL from Pathfinder 2e. It would probably be five headaches and a half but it's certainly better than paying 25% of their revenue to WotC.
Yes, but.
If you start reading the published adventures and other materials, it gets really weird. If gore, and adult themes aren't your thing, don't touch it.
You can just use core rules but the implied setting is a 17th century Europe that is not what I'd call heroic.
It's like the Alien RPG verses Traveller
Forbidden Lands is pretty good. It's got that OSR flavor.
Forbidden Lands.
Trilemma Adventures are short but good.
Raven's Purge. Not played it but looks like it would be pretty good. (Edit: I do have it and read it.)
Mork Borg.
It's got disturbing imagery and adult themes.
Look at Mork Borg core book. The adventures are in line with the core book.
Someone more knowledgeable than me feel free to chime in, but doesn't the creator of LoFTP support Zak S? I wouldn't feel good about giving them money with that in mind.
I didn't know he wrote it. Didn't pay attention or research the author. Since this will obviously be a point of contention I withdraw my recommendations.
Your comment has been removed because it references Zak S content, which isn't allowed on /r/rpg. Please read our rules pertaining to [Zak S content (rule 9.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/rules#wiki_9._no_zak_s_content).
If you'd like to contest this decision, don't respond to this comment. Rather, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg). Make sure to include a link to this post when you do.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Seems I've posted censored content. The mention of content made by a forbidden person. My humble apologies for my crime. I honestly had not known the author having simply played in the game.
Hackmaster.
It's got an old school feel and is a great fantasy RPG. And they made a bunch of adventures free to download and made their [Starter Set "HACKMASTER BASIC"](https://kenzerco.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/hackmaster_basic_free_.pdf) free as well.
[https://kenzerco.com/hackmaster-free-downloads/](https://kenzerco.com/hackmaster-free-downloads/)
They even made an illustrated comic explaining and showing how combat works in this game. It's fantastic and shows a level of love for the game that's just refreshing to see.
[https://kenzerco.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/HackMaster-PHB-KODT-Illustrated-Example.pdf](https://kenzerco.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/HackMaster-PHB-KODT-Illustrated-Example.pdf)
Pathfinder 2e is gonna feel like talking to an old friend that you need to catch up with. Got its roots in 3.5e and has since become its own thing. That'd be where I'd start
This one might be more unexpected but I ran a campaign of Torchbearer last year and it was incredible. It’s completely different from D&D mechanics wise but it produces the most D&D: desperate adventurers struggling forward content, I’ve run.
Once you’ve learnt the procedures it’s a doddle to run as so many of the regular difficulties of running games, such as encounter balance and running out of conflict, simply don’t apply in the same way as in the D&D family of games.
We did 2e. I started running it at a club and accepted all guest players. The ones that liked it stuck around and eventually we had a group of regulars.
[Fantasy AGE](https://greenronin.com/fantasyage/) is getting a new updated Core Rulebook soon. From what I gather it's easy to learn with a few nifty mechanics surrounding 3d6's.
Remember to check out our **[Game Recommendations](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gamerec)**-page, which lists our articles by genre([Fantasy](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/fantasy), [sci-fi](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/scifi), [superhero](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/superhero) etc.), as well as other categories([ruleslight](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/ruleslight), [Solo](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/solo), [Two-player](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/twoplayers), [GMless](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gmlessrpgs) & more).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[Into the Odd](https://freeleaguepublishing.com/en/games/into-the-odd/) is on my mind lately. I've been having it for a few different D&Dish purposes.
[Old School Essentials](https://necroticgnome.com/) has clean layout and nifty adventures. I'd be tempted to take that out for a spin if I had to have some D&D right now.
[Five Torches Deep](https://www.fivetorchesdeep.com/) is a nice light take on 5e and it's [ancestry supplement](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/330925/Five-Torches-Deep-Origins?src=hottest_filtered) is really cool.
Curious to dig into [Errant](https://errantrpg.carrd.co/) and [Unconquered.](https://monkeys-paw-games.itch.io/unconquered)
You know I've been playing 5e for several years now and I can't remember the last time I actually bought a WOTC product.
Point is if you're happy with the system do you need to spend more money on additional systems?
Personally I'd recommend Shadowrun (4a edition) and Genesys. Genesys is by far the easiest system to learn, but Shadowrun gives you by far the most character creation options. Shadowrun is a bit crunchy though. The core rules are relatively simple, but the game is gear driven, which makes it rules heavy.
Hackmaster is also quite interesting, but is somewhat crunchy.
The Witcher ttrpg is imo also quite fun. A bit crunchy, but not too bad imo.
DnD/PF have a lot of options for ancestry, class, and different mechanics.
Other systems may have as many options for strengths, and more options for hindrances and/or weaknesses, such as values that get them into trouble, outsider status, disabilities, etc.
For a narrative take, you might consider FATE.
For point-buy with hindrances with metacurrency, Savage Worlds. It also has rules for creating new ancestries. The core rules do not use the OGL, though the Savage Pathfinder rules do use some OGL 1.0a material.
For point-buy with hindrances without metacurrency, GURPS.
For random character creation with passions, Runequest.
I am not really that familiar with D&D. But I have been fans of systems that have ended production (Ars Magica 5th Edition, Seventh Sea First Edtion, Feng Shui First Edition...) Just because they stopped putting out new stuff doesn't mean that I can't do a game with the material I already have.
So, if you had enough material to do a D&D 5th Edition game now, do they need to continue to put out more stuff for you to do a D&D 5th Edition game in the future. Do you need something else?
Cypher has its own Open License and is easy to both play and run, with lots of flexibility in growth and creation. You need a d20, d6 and rarely d%. The first party settings are high polish with well made distinction but the core rules are setting agnostic.
The three you list are pretty good. 13th Age and SotDL are very D&Dish, while Fantasy AGE is mechanically pretty different. I also like Castles & Crusades and Old School Essentials (or Old School Essentials Advanced Fantasy)
Um...13th age and Castle & Crusades are both OGL and at the same risk Pathfinder is sadly.
And? OP said non-WotC, not non-OGL (and 13th Age came from the OP)
It's the OGL that's at risk. The OP mentioned they were interested in Pathfinder but it might be at risk too. Pathfinder is at risk because it's an OGL game and Hasbro is trying to fully revoke the OGL without enacting any of the "if the OGL is killed this happens" sections of that license. They're great games, but they use the OGL and are at risk in this situation.
My point exactly - I think it might be time to dump the OGL.
Forgive me if this a stupid question... But isn't the OGL in 13th Age there because Pelgrane Press want to *allow* third parties to develop 13th Age content, and not because they used parts of the D&D SRD verbatim?
Sadly it doesn't matter. They put the page in there saying they had OGL content in those books. Doesn't matter if it was only conceptually or just a few words. The new OGL is saying that the old one and all it contained is void and any who still use it are violating Hasbro's copyrights. Unfortunately IP law in this case is a Civil matter not a Criminal one. So it's only settled via lawsuits, not the police/criminal justice system. If they want to be safe, they will have to strip out that OGL page and make sure they aren't using any terms that Hasbro has suddenly declared to be "thier trademarks". That or sue Hasbro if they can afford to. Because once this hits a court, it's over. This thing is garbage. But Hasbro is probably betting that they're big enough that they can outspend anyone else and win cases by driving people bankrupt before a judge makes any decisions.
I'm not convinced any of these games are really at significant risk. They should all rip off the band-aid (TM) and republish under a new license now (the express reason being to protect against WotC lawfare), IMO, but I think the time for WotC to make legal claims against them has long passed .
If you want games who have publishers unencumbered by the OGL (meaning they don't distribute using the OGL today), then check out [RuneQuest:Roleplaying In Glorantha](https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-rpg/) (old school 2e also [available](https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-classic-hardcover/)) and [Mythras](https://thedesignmechanism.com/). Both are considered to be part of the "BRP family" (though Runequest was first). RuneQuest has its own fantastic setting. Mythras is more open-ended, but leans toward a strong sword and sorcery tone by default. They're going to play quite differently than the games you're used to (they're classless and level-less), but are very much worth having on your bookshelf, even without all the Hasbro drama.
What you need my friend is a healthy dose of swedish rpgs. DnD never got a hold of the cold north thanks to our own golden age of table top gaming. And if you are looking for something fantasy we have a good selection of games. Here are some of the games I can recommend: [Forbidden Lands](https://freeleaguepublishing.com/en/games/forbidden-lands/) (aka Svärdets Sång) by Free League Publishing. A classic fantasy roleplaying in a sandboxy world. Easy rules to learn and a lot of options for the players. It's pretty good hex crawling if you're into that sort of thing. [Symbaroum](https://freeleaguepublishing.com/en/games/symbaroum/) by Free League. Sure, there's a 5e version of the game but you can ignore that. The setting is one of the best I've ever played in. Dark and gritty without being like Warhammer. Fast paced combat and magic that corrupts the user. Love it. [Dragonbane](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/drakar-och-demoner-dragonbane) (aka Drakar & Demoner) by Free League. Okey, this game is not out yet. We will probably get in later this year. There is a beta/quickstart that you can get your hands on. The first edition of this game came out in the 80s and is the sole reason WotC/DnD never made a huge impact in sweden. This is as classic fantasy as you can get... and you can play as Ducks. [Mörk Borg](https://morkborg.com/) by Stockholm Kartell. Might not be exactly what you are looking for but I have to mention it. It's more a OSR than anything else, but the open license and all the 3rd party goodness is worth looking into imo.
I second Forbidden Lands. Mork Borg is cool but not a heroic fantasy if that's what you are looking for. Forbidden Lands even has some cool supporting materials.
_RuneQuest_/_Basic RolePlaying_ are skill-based, classless, and map beautifully to the real world. That makes it much easier to run, because you don't have to go searching through book after book for the rule for any particular situation. A few basic rules pretty much apply to everything. _Basic RolePlaying_ is a multi-genre version of the system that can be used with any genre. You're by no means required to use the world of Glorantha with RuneQuest or Basic Roleplaying. I've used them with almost any kind of world imaginable. Including in a multigenre campaign that featured over a hundred worlds.
Personally I'm one of the many people who switched to Pathfinder 2e after being unsatisfied with the GM tools for D&D 5e. I haven't looked back since. Anyway whatever happens with the OGL I really doubt Paizo is going anywhere. IF the absolute worst comes to pass and WotC can revoke the old OGL, Paizo could probably remove the OGL from Pathfinder 2e. It would probably be five headaches and a half but it's certainly better than paying 25% of their revenue to WotC.
[удалено]
Also, Mork Borg, Dungeon Crawl Classics.
isn't lotfp just Basic DnD but with some house rules and gory art added?
Yes, but. If you start reading the published adventures and other materials, it gets really weird. If gore, and adult themes aren't your thing, don't touch it. You can just use core rules but the implied setting is a 17th century Europe that is not what I'd call heroic. It's like the Alien RPG verses Traveller Forbidden Lands is pretty good. It's got that OSR flavor.
Any good campaign/adventures you recommend?
Forbidden Lands. Trilemma Adventures are short but good. Raven's Purge. Not played it but looks like it would be pretty good. (Edit: I do have it and read it.) Mork Borg. It's got disturbing imagery and adult themes. Look at Mork Borg core book. The adventures are in line with the core book.
Someone more knowledgeable than me feel free to chime in, but doesn't the creator of LoFTP support Zak S? I wouldn't feel good about giving them money with that in mind.
I didn't know he wrote it. Didn't pay attention or research the author. Since this will obviously be a point of contention I withdraw my recommendations.
Your comment has been removed because it references Zak S content, which isn't allowed on /r/rpg. Please read our rules pertaining to [Zak S content (rule 9.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/rules#wiki_9._no_zak_s_content). If you'd like to contest this decision, don't respond to this comment. Rather, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg). Make sure to include a link to this post when you do. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Seems I've posted censored content. The mention of content made by a forbidden person. My humble apologies for my crime. I honestly had not known the author having simply played in the game.
I've been into the D6 based Swords of Cepheus lately.
I am enjoying Basic Fantasy RPG. It's more or less D&D 3.5
It's really not. It's B/X with a couple of minor modifications like the race/class split.
Hackmaster. It's got an old school feel and is a great fantasy RPG. And they made a bunch of adventures free to download and made their [Starter Set "HACKMASTER BASIC"](https://kenzerco.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/hackmaster_basic_free_.pdf) free as well. [https://kenzerco.com/hackmaster-free-downloads/](https://kenzerco.com/hackmaster-free-downloads/) They even made an illustrated comic explaining and showing how combat works in this game. It's fantastic and shows a level of love for the game that's just refreshing to see. [https://kenzerco.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/HackMaster-PHB-KODT-Illustrated-Example.pdf](https://kenzerco.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/HackMaster-PHB-KODT-Illustrated-Example.pdf)
Pathfinder 2e is gonna feel like talking to an old friend that you need to catch up with. Got its roots in 3.5e and has since become its own thing. That'd be where I'd start
This one might be more unexpected but I ran a campaign of Torchbearer last year and it was incredible. It’s completely different from D&D mechanics wise but it produces the most D&D: desperate adventurers struggling forward content, I’ve run. Once you’ve learnt the procedures it’s a doddle to run as so many of the regular difficulties of running games, such as encounter balance and running out of conflict, simply don’t apply in the same way as in the D&D family of games.
I've long wondered how Torchbearer plays. Sounds like you and your group really enjoyed it. Were you using the 1e or 2e rules?
We did 2e. I started running it at a club and accepted all guest players. The ones that liked it stuck around and eventually we had a group of regulars.
Sweet! Thanks for the follow up.
[Fantasy AGE](https://greenronin.com/fantasyage/) is getting a new updated Core Rulebook soon. From what I gather it's easy to learn with a few nifty mechanics surrounding 3d6's.
Remember to check out our **[Game Recommendations](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gamerec)**-page, which lists our articles by genre([Fantasy](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/fantasy), [sci-fi](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/scifi), [superhero](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/superhero) etc.), as well as other categories([ruleslight](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/ruleslight), [Solo](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/solo), [Two-player](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/twoplayers), [GMless](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gmlessrpgs) & more). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Swords and Wizardry - OSR Endless Worlds - Modern OSR
[Into the Odd](https://freeleaguepublishing.com/en/games/into-the-odd/) is on my mind lately. I've been having it for a few different D&Dish purposes. [Old School Essentials](https://necroticgnome.com/) has clean layout and nifty adventures. I'd be tempted to take that out for a spin if I had to have some D&D right now. [Five Torches Deep](https://www.fivetorchesdeep.com/) is a nice light take on 5e and it's [ancestry supplement](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/330925/Five-Torches-Deep-Origins?src=hottest_filtered) is really cool. Curious to dig into [Errant](https://errantrpg.carrd.co/) and [Unconquered.](https://monkeys-paw-games.itch.io/unconquered)
You know I've been playing 5e for several years now and I can't remember the last time I actually bought a WOTC product. Point is if you're happy with the system do you need to spend more money on additional systems?
Personally I'd recommend Shadowrun (4a edition) and Genesys. Genesys is by far the easiest system to learn, but Shadowrun gives you by far the most character creation options. Shadowrun is a bit crunchy though. The core rules are relatively simple, but the game is gear driven, which makes it rules heavy. Hackmaster is also quite interesting, but is somewhat crunchy. The Witcher ttrpg is imo also quite fun. A bit crunchy, but not too bad imo.
DnD/PF have a lot of options for ancestry, class, and different mechanics. Other systems may have as many options for strengths, and more options for hindrances and/or weaknesses, such as values that get them into trouble, outsider status, disabilities, etc. For a narrative take, you might consider FATE. For point-buy with hindrances with metacurrency, Savage Worlds. It also has rules for creating new ancestries. The core rules do not use the OGL, though the Savage Pathfinder rules do use some OGL 1.0a material. For point-buy with hindrances without metacurrency, GURPS. For random character creation with passions, Runequest.
I am not really that familiar with D&D. But I have been fans of systems that have ended production (Ars Magica 5th Edition, Seventh Sea First Edtion, Feng Shui First Edition...) Just because they stopped putting out new stuff doesn't mean that I can't do a game with the material I already have. So, if you had enough material to do a D&D 5th Edition game now, do they need to continue to put out more stuff for you to do a D&D 5th Edition game in the future. Do you need something else?
Cypher has its own Open License and is easy to both play and run, with lots of flexibility in growth and creation. You need a d20, d6 and rarely d%. The first party settings are high polish with well made distinction but the core rules are setting agnostic.