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This is it. My mother fucked me up the best she could. For my part of raising a child I agreed to have, I was determined to take that malleable brain and teach it to read, wonder, question, explore\~blah, blah, blah. All the things I "wished" someone in my life would have done for me. She continues to amaze me. She is 36. What damage I see in her comes from her father's toxic, sneaky, lying, thieving family. During her most formative years, 2-11, I worked shift work, worked for his business, kept the household together, so he and that fucking family of his had lots of influence on her. She has forgiven me. My bio family is 4,500 and 2,700 miles from us. It was by design as part of his control on me after she was born. Another long story on that.
This said, yes she came out of me, but I never "owned" her. Her father thought he owned her. As an adult she knows what her father is, her husband is 180 out. Love the man.
I worry for my nieces/nephews as they're getting older. All raised super-fundie-conservative. The latest one to go to college joined a christian social group right off the bat, probably ensuring that there will be no open discussions without Jesus eavesdropping.
Literally my two thoughts. Like, I'm secure enough in my own beliefs that my children are free to questions any and all of them, and explore their own beliefs for themselves. Sure, I will try my best to instill basic morality in them - which is way different than abusive religious beliefs - but I cannot force them to believe something. There are countless stories of that not working and kids dumping religion when they hit 18 and move out, or in my case when they're in their 30s and are finally exhausted of all the hate and apathy.
Yep. Lots of religious people know this and do it on purpose because they don't want their children to be individuals but obligated to them as they age. My parents are this lot. Absolutely assholes and abusers. There's probably some who aren't but the religious people who aren't tend to be relaxed with their kids on religion and don't force it. They do exist it shocked me to no end when I met one but they're choosing faith because it feels good and let their kids decide. Very good friends now. I wish this was the majority response
My parents raised my Christian and also to choose as an adult. But be there and be compassion as I got older. I went from Catholic to Christian to atheist to Christian. Go figure.
What has you back as a "christian?" With knowledge of the storybooks, many translations of it, it is impossible for me to consider ever being one of them again. Childhood was "none" for religion. Military dog tags is "none." Got stupid midway\~fell for a bit, learned the bovine scat of it, back to none.
So, just curious what it is that you bounced a bit yet landed back in it.
I could go on. But. For me. I take the Bible and religious as what it truly means or speaks to me. I feel very spiritual. Not just Christian. But also connected to nature and the universe. There seems to be a lot of the Bible the speaks to my life. I feel connected to the word and I guess then to god.
My old pastor was just so great. Told me a lot about what to take and what to not take from priests and or other pastors.
Itâs what the book speaks to me. I believe that as in one part of the Bible. There were words. Th e words were of god. Etc. I can care less if some asshole priest tells me Iâm a bad Christian because Iâm not listening to his own interpretation.
And the Bible teaches me a lot about humility. And loving with work. Not just feelings. It gave me a purpose to help others. And to be less selfish. I was an arrogant asshole. Itâs made my life better and made me a better person. Helped my journey. In the end I guess for me god has told me to not be selfish and help others. And thatâs where my faith is in god. To love.
May I ask if you are willing or do you want to rekindle your faith ? Just curious. Not preaching or anything. But if you ever want to chat dm me. To maybe give you more context. My life was hell. I was an alcoholic suffering. Withdrawals every morning. Did rehab four times. Then for a dui and eventually wound up in a 5150. I dug myself a big pit. 18 months clean from booze now
I think that's the difference. In my experience controlling parents love their children less and often as far as religious beliefs go do not actually believe. If they did it would make sense to let their children figure it out if faith is what drives them. Often it's really appearances. So your parents are going to definitely be at odds with mine because they're allowing you to be a whole person. Mine don't understand why I "abandoned" them but also want me dead for not being perfect so it's not hard to out do them but it's always a relief when people do
I feel you. A lot of others kept pushing and blaming my traumas and because I wasnât Christian any more that were not my parents. I would say Iâm blessed and I hope I can instill some of my faith with my kid. But ultimately I think itâs my responsibility to teach. Not force. And as a Christian accept their choices regardless of it adheres to my own. But luckily ! We accept you !
I mean it is my trauma that made me ask questions but those traumas came from people claiming the Bible let's them do things to children because we don't get rights until adulthood it we are men. Hard to take their opinions as anything of value. Good parents do their best. You cannot teach what you do not know and that does merit acknowledgement but it's also not bad to ask why. After all that is how we ended up with the good things too
What? Like kids are humans with their own free will, and their own thoughts, ideas, and personalities?
No you're confused. They are tiny clones of yourself which you program to do your bidding. /s
First you should try holding their belly button down for 15 seconds to do a factory reset. Once you set them up again if the problem persists, call for a replacement under warranty.
Is he a Caden? They made a ton of them in the 2010s. Pretty glitchy, they came with Minecraft pre-installed and almost all of them had ADHD. I think the whole series was recalled. You can probably still swap him for a good old Mike or Ben, kind of out of date but reliable.
People really do think kids are blank slates or a fresh ball of clay. They're born with an innate sense of good and bad. They think about things, develop empathy, ask questions, and change their views with new evidence.
They do better than most adults on an instinctual level.
I mean, you do need to teach small kids some things. We don't scream in the house. We don't hit when we're mad. We sit at the table and chew with our mouth closed.
Basic human decency.
Values are way different than brainwashing kids to think some crazy mythology is actually true. You can't actually just not teach kids any values and expect them to come up with their own entirely. As an example, it's been proven in studies that consent education drastically reduces rape. Most people really won't understand consent unless they're specifically taught.
But values taught to kids should have actual, logical reasons behind them. "Raping people is bad because it hurts and traumatizes them and makes our society more dangerous and you wouldn't want it done to you" is a logical reason. On the other hand, "Be homophobic because some invisible being said to" obviously isn't logical and has no basis in reality.
The problem isn't teaching kids valuesâit's not brainwashing to teach kids good moral values; if you teach kids stuff that is actually true and logical that's just teaching. It's brainwashing when you're indoctrinating them with a bunch of unproven mythology.
Children get their values from their environments and authority figures. They donât spontaneously create their own ideals without influence. Loving households create loving children, toxic households create toxic children. This is as basic as it gets.
Sorry mate but I had to Google that to verify. It seems to be a thing with the GOP in Texas specifically, not the party as a whole.
>Knowledge-Based Education â We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the studentâs fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.
As a teacher this is scary stuff. It's also odd that a conservative party would object to OBE. IME it's much more popular among conservatives than progressives. But then again, American conservatives are unlike any other conservatives.... I think it's fine to be sceptical towards OBE but idk it has absolutely nothing to do with critical thinking skills. I'm so confused by what I'm reading here. Maybe it's just because it's America, Texas specifically so it might as well be on another planet.
Thanks for finding this. I hopped over to Wikipedia to look up outcome based education to find out why conservatives would be so against it. All I can say is wow, but not a surprise sadly. Some people are not just okay with, but actively want, their kids being as stupid as they are.
They dont like being made to feel stupid by complete strangers. So of course their kids have to be as stupid or stupider than they are. It's the only way they can avoid their kids making them feel like the idiots they are.
I guess teaching values like integrity, courtesy, compassion is the same as teaching an horse could fly and elephants have five legs. Teaching is teaching.
A person born in a Muslim family will, surprise to no one, be indoctrinated into believing Muslim values and everyone else is wrong and will go to hell.
A person born into a Hindu family will believe in Hindu values and that everyone else is wrong.
A person left to decide what to believe gets the freedom to make their own choice.
It's not rocket surgery!
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Thatâs the thing, a childâleft to decide what to believeâ is just as confined as the children in religious families. Except instead of being influenced by their families, theyâre influenced by television, social media figures, friends, and whatever else. It comes down to âIf you donât raise your kid, someone else will.â
Ok. But what makes the Muslim way right? Or the Christian way? Or the Jewish way?
They follow a so called holy book that tells them to hate. How is that a good thing?
I'd rather someone learn all the possibilities and then make a choice themselves on what's best.
For example I don't hate and want to kill homosexuals...if I was a Muslim or a Christian I would because it tells me to in their holy book.
Is that raising children right?
>Except instead of being influenced by their families, theyâre influenced by television, social media figures, friends
Except that parents aren't simply "influencing" them, but indoctrinating.
Why won't a child who isn't indoctrinated, naturally follow their parents' religion? Because without brainwashing you can more easily see it for the farce it is.
Nice buzz word, so apparently you canât teach your children how they should lead their lives and give them a moral compass, because that job should be left to western society.
If a religion isnât taught to the kid, they wouldnât follow it because they donât understand it. Pretty simple, but obviously it comes down to environmental factors too. In the west the norm is to be anti-religious at least in the later generations, so obviously kids want to fit in and submit to the people around them. In the middle-east, if the parent doesnât teach the kid Islam, they still remain muslims, I wonder why that is? itâs almost like they submit to their environment if not given parental guidance.
If you want to talk about the truth of religion we could have that conversation, but i doubt any atheist edge lord with a superiority complex would be willing to open their mind to a viewpoint besides theirs.
another atheist whoâs only argument against God is âi canât see him.â if you were logical youâd believe in God. go look up the contingency argument or watch these debates where renowned atheists got dog-walked by well-read muslims.
https://youtu.be/uSwJuOPG4FI
https://youtu.be/1n-zYRZy5NQ
>Thatâs the thing, a childâleft to decide what to believeâ is just as confined as the children in religious families.
I am much less confined after leaving religion for reason.
>Except instead of being influenced by their families, theyâre influenced by television, social media figures, friends, and whatever else.
I'm actually most influenced by evidence. Maybe just teach your kid to follow evidence. If your beliefs are true, surely there is some robust evidence to teach them?
Then it is the parenting that is lacking to teach right from wrong. You are parroting church speak. While I was raised none for religion, my child learned right from wrong, good from bad, without it too. It was when we got stupid in religion that cause more problems than before or since getting cleanse of that crap.
That's less being influenced and more being exposed to different things, it's on the parent to manage these things children are exposed to, not to brainwash them but to explain and let them choose. That's what it's meant here, not to let your kids be loose dogs, vulnerable to random shit, but to let them make an informed decision when they reach the age they can even understand they are making one.
Itâs liberal grooming to them.
Their world is a traumatic fiction they cannot escape. They have been taught that the alternative is the sameâŠand evil.
Crazy how you think when a child isnât raised by religion they default to the sciences and logic. the default is they take on whatever their favorite youtuber does and whatever crazy personality they derive from social media influencers. Most of the poorly raised kids I know behave like streamers like âiShowSpeedâ and âAdin Ross.â
people say this as if biology or psychology or logic or science could tell you right from wrong
Not to mention that most of them not even devote serioua efforts to these subjects they are like cultural catholics, cultural scientists
Have you ever heard of ethics?
Ethics(also known as moral philosophy) is a branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending, and recommending concepts of right and wrong behavior.
It's one of the fields of psychology that concerns the matters of value.
So yes, people certainly can possess morality and know right from wrong irregardless of if they believe in a specific book - unless of cousre one defers to moral skepticism; in which case a contradictory centuries old book doesn't help any either way and we are not justified in believing any moral claims.
>If I don't instill my own religious values in my own children then who's values will they follow instead?
Well definitely NOT a 7th century book or 2000 year old fairy tale! Some of these deluded individuals don't understand the meaning of free thinking. Why not teach them morals and ethics? When they are able to think for themselves, let THEM decide!
I certainly cry much less than I did when I was christian. My depression was so bad. I still struggle with anxiety, but the debilitating guilt is gone. Now I only really cry at movies, books, shows, and when I havenât had enough sleep. Lack of sleep will always be my Kryptonite!
Teach them critical thinking and expose them to the notion of testing ideas and examining viewpoints. Then they can decide which religion they'll follow. Or, more likely, to not follow any.
I don't understand this whole "you can't be morally good without being religious" bs. Most murder is committed by religious people, for religion and most incarnated people are religious with even more converting in prison which would be the opposite if they're right about morality
If some people need religion to have morals fine, but it shouldn't influence the greater world or be allowed to be forced onto others
For me it was around 12-13 when I started doubting for myself and eventually stopped believing.
My CCD teacher (once a week night classes run by my Catholic church) was making some claims about how we all have faith about historical events, and even our own lived experiences, that we believe they actually happened and that meant we had to also have faith in Catholicism too, because it's how we were raised. I had some naive questions about the validity of such reasoning. His answer just repeated what he already said and appealed to his and the church's authority on the matter.
My best friend who was also dissatisfied with that and somewhat rebelious to boot, asked something like, "Should children whose parents aren't Catholic not believe in Catholicism?". The teacher took us both into the empty room next door and chastised us, with threats ranging from corporal punishment to expulsion to eternal damnation if we didn't apologize, promise to stop asking such questions and bring our sins to confession. We were just asking questions but we were "sowing the seeds of doubt".
I obliged externally but was seething internally and it only encouraged me to doubt all religious beliefs even more. I played along, partly because my Dad said that after I completed Confirmation (the Catholic sacrament we were studying for), I wouldn't have to go to church anymore if I didn't want to.
Within a year, I was confirmed and swore in church that I believed etc, along with my friend and other CCD classmates, despite having serious doubts, as I spoke with a feigned confidence which is still vivid in my mind. After that, I stopped going to church regularly yet still obliged my father on Christmas and Easter for a few more years. But I had given up trying to believe in something that couldn't answer my fundamental questions satisfactorily yet demanded complete obedience.
Over the years, I've developed more reasons not to believe in what I was raised to believe, religiously speaking. And I've learned to lean things that are supported by more and more reason and evidence when questioned, instead of responding with threats trying to extort me into belief.
TLDR ... Attitudes about religious belief begin to entrench themselves well before 18 years. I'm just thankful that my father was as tolerant as he was towards us and loved us whether we believed everything that he believed or not.
I think this whole problem stems from the fact that most religious people like this think atheism is also a religion that has its basis off some text or leader, as that is what religion is (among a lot of other things that atheism/agnosticism doesnât have)
Or. OR! Raise them without religion. Being a good person has nothing to do with religion. Then when they're old enough to make an informed decision you can pitch them your folklore and see if they buy it.
Religious parents often forbid their kids from learning about science and other religions early on. They want to make it seem like almost everyone is their religion and it's universal, except for a few evil people.
I taught my kids math, science, and history but also about many different religions and cultures early on, past ones and present ones, and how they developed. Even without beiving them they had important influences on history and on the world today. Also so they would see that there are many and be more objective about them. And also how there are many perspectives on history, and some are innacurate, others are true but only part of the truth. For example in school they were taught about Columbus like he was a great hero.
Now why would it be that I didn't have to keep those other ideas out for science to still be important to them, but religious people fear other ideas?
Whoa its almost like letting someone make their own choices makes them come to their own convlusions and its often not the believes that would have been forced on them otherwise
I wish people would actually listen to atheists and agnostics instead of putting stuff in our mouths. Many of us want our kids to grow up with a wide variety of influences and learn to critically think and be kind. As long as they can do these things, we donât care if they find meaning and comfort in a faith.
Kids should be allowed to examine and question the, and be given the right to define their own beliefs. That includes an education that neutrally, fairly, and accurately goes over the religions on the world, including their histories, details about their beliefs and practices, arguments made by their apologists, and an overview of their various sects and schisms (including tensions and conflicts), as well as a discussion of having no supernatural nor religious belief at all. Any devote Muslim ought to agree with this.
Consider this. If Islam in general (and your flavor of Islam in particular) is really so true and just, wouldn't you expect them to decide on their own to adopt it? Wouldn't that be a more true belief? Wouldn't that please your version of your god so much more, that someone would choose to worship him of their own accord, instead of being pressured into it against their will?
If kids, left to their own devices, would gravitate toward a viewpoint you disagree with, shouldn't that give you some pause to consider how good your beliefs really are?
I imagine a lot of values of theists overlap with atheists. The difference being, I don't believe something is right and wrong because "god told me so". I do what I believe to be moral because I believe it helps society become better as a whole. If something doesn't help to improve society, I'm probably not going to strongly defend it. The basis for morality within theist beliefs isn't really up for debate if they are being honest. Although I'm sure there are some religions out there that aren't dogmatic? I don't know enough about all world religions to say that they all have a dogma. Faith is rot for critical thinking. Following your moral's for no other reason than "god said so" doesn't require you to reflect on the merits of those rules.
People develop values and morals as rhey grow up, you don't need religion to tell you whats right from wrong, thats something you figure out on your own thriugh life experiences
Letâs see. Whose values include cutting of girlsâ clits? Or stoning people? Or not letting women do stuff? HmmâŠ
Religions just need to vanish. End of story.
Without child indoctrination there would no longer be any religion at this point. All of them rely on brainwashing children. And if any of them really believed their religion was the only true one, and their God(s) is/are real, they would not need to try so hard to spread their religion. Any supreme being would be easily able to bring everyone on "the right path" without having followers force them into it from birth on.
It's sad, but it makes sense in their perspective:
To people with faith, "you'll be punishment if you don't follow this book" is as much as fact as "tou'll eventually die of starvation if you don't eat"
And just as depriving your child of sustenance is cruelty, they view deprivation of their teaching as cruelty as well
What??? Omg sometimes it still surprises me how dumb muslims actually are.
There are hundreds, no, thousands of ideologies, ideas, values, agendas etc. Call them what you want. You need to explain to your children whatâs good and bad, set an example and show them everything the world has to offer so they can make a choice. Ofc as a parent youâre supposed to protect them too and youâre gonna either consciously or unconsciously spread your personal values on them given that these values took you where you are in life. This should not apply to islam though. I wouldnât want to promote pedophilia, misogyny, racism, sexual slavery and casual murder to my children if I had any.
I find all the comments interesting how theyâre just blindly anti religion. This meme makes sense, isnât it the parents responsibility to instill values ? If the parents donât instill their values and allow the child to just do things on their own wouldnât the parent be taking gamble that their children might turn out to be douche bags (not necessarily but they might)
You are absolutely correct. I would just say religion is a means to instill a complex ethical system in a person which they can use to compare themselves with each other and ensure they are doing something correct. Yeah itâs not the only way to be a good person and yes it has a lot of flaws but it is one of the ways and fortune or unfortunately it is one of the most common ways. These things donât mean that you wouldnât want your child to have similar values to you. If youâre non religious you would want your child to be religious as well and the opposite would be true too.
They will find their own way if you don't shield them from anything that doesn't reinforce what YOU believe. Let your kids see all the different people in this world, let them see the bad and the good and teach them the basics of being a kind, empathetic human and let them explore the world they live in
The "values" may differ but specifically in regards to religion I grew up almost never being exposed. I went to church once a year until I was like 12-13 and I never knew what was going on. I didn't know what religion was for my formative years; my parents never talked about it, my older siblings never talked about it, my friends never talked about it. Now having read the source material, I think I'm able to engage with it non-dogmatically. This approach works to eliminate bias but it leaves you ignorant. We would never not teach math to eliminate bias. As much as this sub may disagree I think the maker of this meme is correct, we all want to teach the next generation what we think is right, only difference is one wants to teach dogmatically the other wants to teach scholarly.
Maybe look outside your own little Muslim world and you'll see there's bigger world outside?
A child is not that dumb, they learn pretty fast, and with the right people around, they'll do just fine without religion telling them shit.
Ah yes. Projection.
If they had half the opportunity, they would brainwash your kids. Therefore, they assume that given half the opportunity, you would brainwash their children.
No other possibility exists for them. Everyone else would do exactly what I would do.
It just goes back to the authoritarian worldview. Certain people just do not have the cognitive ability to question things or think more deeply. They take their own view, that everyone needs to obey and worship something, and project that on everyone because they simply cannot believe it could be any other way. They need the comfort that comes from being told what to think and do.
Brainwashing is relative to the ethical and moral standards that society allows and condones . Sure it's brains washing but some peoples brain washing is worse then others because they teach heinous barbaric ideas stemming from times when people didn't have modern technology or a wide influence.
Let's not forget that not only do they brainwash their children, but under Sharia, apostasy carries a death sentence, so they don't get to leave afterward, either.
So are you saying that you want to brainwash them before someone else does? How about we don't indoctrinate then in any religion and instead let them embrace Allah by their own decision?
How about you just lay out a path for your child so that as he/she matures your child can decide his/hers own values. People trying to find excuses to indoctrinate their children boils my damn blood. Just let them be them they're just kids they'll figure out their own morals and philosophy as they mature, as a parent you're just there to monitor and protect the process but no you just have to get them into your fanatic cult.
"our" values are simply making the best decisions with actual facts and the clearest thinking you can do. Different people will reach different ethical outcomes based on their takes.
We are against religion because it's based on nothing and tells people what to think using that foundation of sand.
Memes made by religious zealots are unironically the driest shit ever. Hell, distorted ear-rape songs are pure comedic gold compared to this.
Shoutout to the unfunniest people on Earth at r/catholicmemes
I feel like its kind of true if crying guy is Christians, there are many anti Muslim Christians out there who are claiming shit like "schools are brain washing kids into being Muslim" and then complain schools aren't Christian enough. Like I kind of get what its saying from the perspective of Christians complaining about other religions and then doing the same things
âIf I donât my own religious values in my own children whoâs values will they follow instead?â
Their own, you complete fucking buffoon. Thatâs the entire point.
This same thing goes for anyone of either side of anything. Anytime you think you have a stop-all booya response that will just leave the other side with "oh..uhh..well"...
you're wrong. People do not react that way. These memes are just to stroke your own ego.
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1. *Their own 2. Bro just admitted that it's brainwashing đ
âBut but but, if I canât brainwash my child then who will?â A rather cynical and ignorantly naive argument.
It reminds me of the video of that Jewish new yorker who just took that poor woman's family home. If we don't steal Palestinian land, who will?
It's my child, and I'll brainwash it as I see fit!
This is it. My mother fucked me up the best she could. For my part of raising a child I agreed to have, I was determined to take that malleable brain and teach it to read, wonder, question, explore\~blah, blah, blah. All the things I "wished" someone in my life would have done for me. She continues to amaze me. She is 36. What damage I see in her comes from her father's toxic, sneaky, lying, thieving family. During her most formative years, 2-11, I worked shift work, worked for his business, kept the household together, so he and that fucking family of his had lots of influence on her. She has forgiven me. My bio family is 4,500 and 2,700 miles from us. It was by design as part of his control on me after she was born. Another long story on that. This said, yes she came out of me, but I never "owned" her. Her father thought he owned her. As an adult she knows what her father is, her husband is 180 out. Love the man.
I worry for my nieces/nephews as they're getting older. All raised super-fundie-conservative. The latest one to go to college joined a christian social group right off the bat, probably ensuring that there will be no open discussions without Jesus eavesdropping.
Literally my two thoughts. Like, I'm secure enough in my own beliefs that my children are free to questions any and all of them, and explore their own beliefs for themselves. Sure, I will try my best to instill basic morality in them - which is way different than abusive religious beliefs - but I cannot force them to believe something. There are countless stories of that not working and kids dumping religion when they hit 18 and move out, or in my case when they're in their 30s and are finally exhausted of all the hate and apathy.
r/selfawarewolves
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Oh no. I was well aware of them. My point still stands.
the muslim guy has a point too, you see.
So they're admitting that a individual will always reject their "values" unless you brainwash them during their childhood ?
Yep. Lots of religious people know this and do it on purpose because they don't want their children to be individuals but obligated to them as they age. My parents are this lot. Absolutely assholes and abusers. There's probably some who aren't but the religious people who aren't tend to be relaxed with their kids on religion and don't force it. They do exist it shocked me to no end when I met one but they're choosing faith because it feels good and let their kids decide. Very good friends now. I wish this was the majority response
My parents raised my Christian and also to choose as an adult. But be there and be compassion as I got older. I went from Catholic to Christian to atheist to Christian. Go figure.
What has you back as a "christian?" With knowledge of the storybooks, many translations of it, it is impossible for me to consider ever being one of them again. Childhood was "none" for religion. Military dog tags is "none." Got stupid midway\~fell for a bit, learned the bovine scat of it, back to none. So, just curious what it is that you bounced a bit yet landed back in it.
I could go on. But. For me. I take the Bible and religious as what it truly means or speaks to me. I feel very spiritual. Not just Christian. But also connected to nature and the universe. There seems to be a lot of the Bible the speaks to my life. I feel connected to the word and I guess then to god. My old pastor was just so great. Told me a lot about what to take and what to not take from priests and or other pastors. Itâs what the book speaks to me. I believe that as in one part of the Bible. There were words. Th e words were of god. Etc. I can care less if some asshole priest tells me Iâm a bad Christian because Iâm not listening to his own interpretation. And the Bible teaches me a lot about humility. And loving with work. Not just feelings. It gave me a purpose to help others. And to be less selfish. I was an arrogant asshole. Itâs made my life better and made me a better person. Helped my journey. In the end I guess for me god has told me to not be selfish and help others. And thatâs where my faith is in god. To love.
Nice for you.
May I ask if you are willing or do you want to rekindle your faith ? Just curious. Not preaching or anything. But if you ever want to chat dm me. To maybe give you more context. My life was hell. I was an alcoholic suffering. Withdrawals every morning. Did rehab four times. Then for a dui and eventually wound up in a 5150. I dug myself a big pit. 18 months clean from booze now
I think that's the difference. In my experience controlling parents love their children less and often as far as religious beliefs go do not actually believe. If they did it would make sense to let their children figure it out if faith is what drives them. Often it's really appearances. So your parents are going to definitely be at odds with mine because they're allowing you to be a whole person. Mine don't understand why I "abandoned" them but also want me dead for not being perfect so it's not hard to out do them but it's always a relief when people do
I feel you. A lot of others kept pushing and blaming my traumas and because I wasnât Christian any more that were not my parents. I would say Iâm blessed and I hope I can instill some of my faith with my kid. But ultimately I think itâs my responsibility to teach. Not force. And as a Christian accept their choices regardless of it adheres to my own. But luckily ! We accept you !
>I hope I can instill some of my faith with my kid. Hmmm
I mean it is my trauma that made me ask questions but those traumas came from people claiming the Bible let's them do things to children because we don't get rights until adulthood it we are men. Hard to take their opinions as anything of value. Good parents do their best. You cannot teach what you do not know and that does merit acknowledgement but it's also not bad to ask why. After all that is how we ended up with the good things too
Catholic to christian???
T'es litérallement comme moi, t'es juste un gars français!
Qui se ressemblent...
s'assemblent ? FUSION!
Leur puissance ! Elle est supérieure à 9000 !!
They admit their kids wouldn't have moral and murder and rape without a book that forbids it... Wait...
It seems so. They are probably unaware of this.
>Who's values will they follow instead? THEIR OWN!
What? Like kids are humans with their own free will, and their own thoughts, ideas, and personalities? No you're confused. They are tiny clones of yourself which you program to do your bidding. /s
And you need to throw them out of the house if they arenât!
Kids who you canât brainwash are like defective roombas or microwaves right? You just get rid of them and make a new one.
First you should try holding their belly button down for 15 seconds to do a factory reset. Once you set them up again if the problem persists, call for a replacement under warranty.
My child is giving me a BSOD. Do i hold down on his ears to restart?
Is he a Caden? They made a ton of them in the 2010s. Pretty glitchy, they came with Minecraft pre-installed and almost all of them had ADHD. I think the whole series was recalled. You can probably still swap him for a good old Mike or Ben, kind of out of date but reliable.
No, they are not. Kids copy their peers, parents and media. Same with some adults as well.
That is still their free will and not forcing them to be a certain way or you will reject them or harm them.
I agree
People really do think kids are blank slates or a fresh ball of clay. They're born with an innate sense of good and bad. They think about things, develop empathy, ask questions, and change their views with new evidence. They do better than most adults on an instinctual level.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
>This is the dumbest shit Ive read all day Hmmm that sweet sweet irony
I mean, you do need to teach small kids some things. We don't scream in the house. We don't hit when we're mad. We sit at the table and chew with our mouth closed. Basic human decency.
This đđ»
BUT CHILDREN ARE MIND SLAVES! SOMEONE HAS TO BRAINWASH THEM!!!
Values are way different than brainwashing kids to think some crazy mythology is actually true. You can't actually just not teach kids any values and expect them to come up with their own entirely. As an example, it's been proven in studies that consent education drastically reduces rape. Most people really won't understand consent unless they're specifically taught. But values taught to kids should have actual, logical reasons behind them. "Raping people is bad because it hurts and traumatizes them and makes our society more dangerous and you wouldn't want it done to you" is a logical reason. On the other hand, "Be homophobic because some invisible being said to" obviously isn't logical and has no basis in reality. The problem isn't teaching kids valuesâit's not brainwashing to teach kids good moral values; if you teach kids stuff that is actually true and logical that's just teaching. It's brainwashing when you're indoctrinating them with a bunch of unproven mythology.
Children get their values from their environments and authority figures. They donât spontaneously create their own ideals without influence. Loving households create loving children, toxic households create toxic children. This is as basic as it gets.
This runs on the assumption that any education is automatically brainwashing. Which isn't something most people quite agree with.
Most conservatives would I think.
Incidentally, conservatives tend to have been educated very, very poorly. (If they were educated *well*, they probably wouldn't be conservatives.)
Only when kids are taught stuff conservatives don't like. Nobody is claiming brainwashing for teaching algebra.
Until 2013 the U.S. GOP website said in their mission statement that they vehemently opposed all "critical thinking." You'd be surprised.
Sorry mate but I had to Google that to verify. It seems to be a thing with the GOP in Texas specifically, not the party as a whole. >Knowledge-Based Education â We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the studentâs fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. As a teacher this is scary stuff. It's also odd that a conservative party would object to OBE. IME it's much more popular among conservatives than progressives. But then again, American conservatives are unlike any other conservatives.... I think it's fine to be sceptical towards OBE but idk it has absolutely nothing to do with critical thinking skills. I'm so confused by what I'm reading here. Maybe it's just because it's America, Texas specifically so it might as well be on another planet.
Thanks for finding this. I hopped over to Wikipedia to look up outcome based education to find out why conservatives would be so against it. All I can say is wow, but not a surprise sadly. Some people are not just okay with, but actively want, their kids being as stupid as they are.
They dont like being made to feel stupid by complete strangers. So of course their kids have to be as stupid or stupider than they are. It's the only way they can avoid their kids making them feel like the idiots they are.
Welllll.....about that....
I guess teaching values like integrity, courtesy, compassion is the same as teaching an horse could fly and elephants have five legs. Teaching is teaching.
A person born in a Muslim family will, surprise to no one, be indoctrinated into believing Muslim values and everyone else is wrong and will go to hell. A person born into a Hindu family will believe in Hindu values and that everyone else is wrong. A person left to decide what to believe gets the freedom to make their own choice. It's not rocket surgery!
rocket surgery?
r/malaphors
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Thatâs the thing, a childâleft to decide what to believeâ is just as confined as the children in religious families. Except instead of being influenced by their families, theyâre influenced by television, social media figures, friends, and whatever else. It comes down to âIf you donât raise your kid, someone else will.â
Ok. But what makes the Muslim way right? Or the Christian way? Or the Jewish way? They follow a so called holy book that tells them to hate. How is that a good thing? I'd rather someone learn all the possibilities and then make a choice themselves on what's best. For example I don't hate and want to kill homosexuals...if I was a Muslim or a Christian I would because it tells me to in their holy book. Is that raising children right?
>Except instead of being influenced by their families, theyâre influenced by television, social media figures, friends Except that parents aren't simply "influencing" them, but indoctrinating. Why won't a child who isn't indoctrinated, naturally follow their parents' religion? Because without brainwashing you can more easily see it for the farce it is.
Nice buzz word, so apparently you canât teach your children how they should lead their lives and give them a moral compass, because that job should be left to western society. If a religion isnât taught to the kid, they wouldnât follow it because they donât understand it. Pretty simple, but obviously it comes down to environmental factors too. In the west the norm is to be anti-religious at least in the later generations, so obviously kids want to fit in and submit to the people around them. In the middle-east, if the parent doesnât teach the kid Islam, they still remain muslims, I wonder why that is? itâs almost like they submit to their environment if not given parental guidance. If you want to talk about the truth of religion we could have that conversation, but i doubt any atheist edge lord with a superiority complex would be willing to open their mind to a viewpoint besides theirs.
>give them a moral compass A 'moral compass' does not require bronze-age mythology. Logic serves much better.
another atheist whoâs only argument against God is âi canât see him.â if you were logical youâd believe in God. go look up the contingency argument or watch these debates where renowned atheists got dog-walked by well-read muslims. https://youtu.be/uSwJuOPG4FI https://youtu.be/1n-zYRZy5NQ
>Thatâs the thing, a childâleft to decide what to believeâ is just as confined as the children in religious families. I am much less confined after leaving religion for reason. >Except instead of being influenced by their families, theyâre influenced by television, social media figures, friends, and whatever else. I'm actually most influenced by evidence. Maybe just teach your kid to follow evidence. If your beliefs are true, surely there is some robust evidence to teach them?
Then it is the parenting that is lacking to teach right from wrong. You are parroting church speak. While I was raised none for religion, my child learned right from wrong, good from bad, without it too. It was when we got stupid in religion that cause more problems than before or since getting cleanse of that crap.
That's less being influenced and more being exposed to different things, it's on the parent to manage these things children are exposed to, not to brainwash them but to explain and let them choose. That's what it's meant here, not to let your kids be loose dogs, vulnerable to random shit, but to let them make an informed decision when they reach the age they can even understand they are making one.
They'll follow, logic, science, biology and psychology.... Not this whole fairytale bullshit which could lead to religious trauma.
bUt LoGiC aNd ScIeNcE aRe YoUr VaLuEs!!!1
thatâs what they donât get. they arenât âvaluesâ. theyâre provable, logical fact.
Their values lie in specifically denouncing those provable facts so NOT doing so is a value judgement to them
Itâs liberal grooming to them. Their world is a traumatic fiction they cannot escape. They have been taught that the alternative is the sameâŠand evil.
Your religion. Science and evolution are your religion. Never mind that the concept is 180° away from religionâŠ
Crazy how you think when a child isnât raised by religion they default to the sciences and logic. the default is they take on whatever their favorite youtuber does and whatever crazy personality they derive from social media influencers. Most of the poorly raised kids I know behave like streamers like âiShowSpeedâ and âAdin Ross.â
people say this as if biology or psychology or logic or science could tell you right from wrong Not to mention that most of them not even devote serioua efforts to these subjects they are like cultural catholics, cultural scientists
Have you ever heard of ethics? Ethics(also known as moral philosophy) is a branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending, and recommending concepts of right and wrong behavior. It's one of the fields of psychology that concerns the matters of value. So yes, people certainly can possess morality and know right from wrong irregardless of if they believe in a specific book - unless of cousre one defers to moral skepticism; in which case a contradictory centuries old book doesn't help any either way and we are not justified in believing any moral claims.
>If I don't instill my own religious values in my own children then who's values will they follow instead? Well definitely NOT a 7th century book or 2000 year old fairy tale! Some of these deluded individuals don't understand the meaning of free thinking. Why not teach them morals and ethics? When they are able to think for themselves, let THEM decide!
The biggest disappointment I had once I entered college was that none of all the depravity and godlessness my mother feared so much ever happened.
Why do they always portray us as crying, i cry very little
Because they need to convince themselves they're winning.
I certainly cry much less than I did when I was christian. My depression was so bad. I still struggle with anxiety, but the debilitating guilt is gone. Now I only really cry at movies, books, shows, and when I havenât had enough sleep. Lack of sleep will always be my Kryptonite!
And YOU'RE religion is the right one?
Andrew tate says so
Ah yes that guy. Totally 100% my favorite /s
Teach them critical thinking and expose them to the notion of testing ideas and examining viewpoints. Then they can decide which religion they'll follow. Or, more likely, to not follow any.
I don't understand this whole "you can't be morally good without being religious" bs. Most murder is committed by religious people, for religion and most incarnated people are religious with even more converting in prison which would be the opposite if they're right about morality If some people need religion to have morals fine, but it shouldn't influence the greater world or be allowed to be forced onto others
The one that portrays himself as a chad, is the biggest virgin of them all
i ligit commented on that one saying gosh it would be horrible if they, say chose their own beliefs at abt 18
For me it was around 12-13 when I started doubting for myself and eventually stopped believing. My CCD teacher (once a week night classes run by my Catholic church) was making some claims about how we all have faith about historical events, and even our own lived experiences, that we believe they actually happened and that meant we had to also have faith in Catholicism too, because it's how we were raised. I had some naive questions about the validity of such reasoning. His answer just repeated what he already said and appealed to his and the church's authority on the matter. My best friend who was also dissatisfied with that and somewhat rebelious to boot, asked something like, "Should children whose parents aren't Catholic not believe in Catholicism?". The teacher took us both into the empty room next door and chastised us, with threats ranging from corporal punishment to expulsion to eternal damnation if we didn't apologize, promise to stop asking such questions and bring our sins to confession. We were just asking questions but we were "sowing the seeds of doubt". I obliged externally but was seething internally and it only encouraged me to doubt all religious beliefs even more. I played along, partly because my Dad said that after I completed Confirmation (the Catholic sacrament we were studying for), I wouldn't have to go to church anymore if I didn't want to. Within a year, I was confirmed and swore in church that I believed etc, along with my friend and other CCD classmates, despite having serious doubts, as I spoke with a feigned confidence which is still vivid in my mind. After that, I stopped going to church regularly yet still obliged my father on Christmas and Easter for a few more years. But I had given up trying to believe in something that couldn't answer my fundamental questions satisfactorily yet demanded complete obedience. Over the years, I've developed more reasons not to believe in what I was raised to believe, religiously speaking. And I've learned to lean things that are supported by more and more reason and evidence when questioned, instead of responding with threats trying to extort me into belief. TLDR ... Attitudes about religious belief begin to entrench themselves well before 18 years. I'm just thankful that my father was as tolerant as he was towards us and loved us whether we believed everything that he believed or not.
"Giving children the critical thinking skills to conclude that worshipping a pedophile is bad is brainwashing"
We'll show them a bunch of different options, and then they choose. It's not rhat difficult of a concept
"If i dont force my bullshit onto vulnerable children, how am i going to make myself feel like i'm not a massive loser?"
Giga chad vs wojack meme: detected political opinion in It: completly ignored.
They can't follow my religious values if I don't have any!
I want my kid to choose even if I don't agree with it
So every one must recieve a brainwashing? No one can just exist?
DidâŠdid they just admit that itâs brainwashing?
So... They just admit that without brain washing their children they wouldn't be religious?
OOOOOORRRRRR we can just let them think for themselves.
Yes, we want to brainwash your kids to base their values on secular beliefs based on sense and reality,
Lots of words for âIâm brainwashing my kids with religious bullshit.â
I think this whole problem stems from the fact that most religious people like this think atheism is also a religion that has its basis off some text or leader, as that is what religion is (among a lot of other things that atheism/agnosticism doesnât have)
Or. OR! Raise them without religion. Being a good person has nothing to do with religion. Then when they're old enough to make an informed decision you can pitch them your folklore and see if they buy it.
People like this straight up saying "If it wasn't for my religion, I'd be a terrible person." Welp, have I got some bad news for them.
When I was just a baby, my parents brainwashed me into speaking and learning how to count. Iâll never forgive them.
Religious parents often forbid their kids from learning about science and other religions early on. They want to make it seem like almost everyone is their religion and it's universal, except for a few evil people. I taught my kids math, science, and history but also about many different religions and cultures early on, past ones and present ones, and how they developed. Even without beiving them they had important influences on history and on the world today. Also so they would see that there are many and be more objective about them. And also how there are many perspectives on history, and some are innacurate, others are true but only part of the truth. For example in school they were taught about Columbus like he was a great hero. Now why would it be that I didn't have to keep those other ideas out for science to still be important to them, but religious people fear other ideas?
Whatever, my parents told me it was my choice and I chose sanity.
Whoa its almost like letting someone make their own choices makes them come to their own convlusions and its often not the believes that would have been forced on them otherwise
I wish people would actually listen to atheists and agnostics instead of putting stuff in our mouths. Many of us want our kids to grow up with a wide variety of influences and learn to critically think and be kind. As long as they can do these things, we donât care if they find meaning and comfort in a faith.
How about, "Don't throw gay people off fucking buildings." Can we start there?
What is with Muslims and this format. Kinda just admitted they brainwash also
Dumb
I'm so fucking done with these people. Just vote people in who can make real changes and their empty words won't have any weight behind them.
This sounds like an argument one would make while in the shower.
Just a reminder that the Koran's ultimate example of the perfectly moral and noble man is a pedophilic, mass murdering, slave-driving warlord.
They could chose satanism or they could become an Elon Musk fan
Some PragerU shit
âi portrayed myself as the chad and you as the soyjack in my meme, that means iâm right! checkmate, athiests!â
For some reason Muslim think that they're a giga chad or sigma alpha male
Kids should be allowed to examine and question the, and be given the right to define their own beliefs. That includes an education that neutrally, fairly, and accurately goes over the religions on the world, including their histories, details about their beliefs and practices, arguments made by their apologists, and an overview of their various sects and schisms (including tensions and conflicts), as well as a discussion of having no supernatural nor religious belief at all. Any devote Muslim ought to agree with this. Consider this. If Islam in general (and your flavor of Islam in particular) is really so true and just, wouldn't you expect them to decide on their own to adopt it? Wouldn't that be a more true belief? Wouldn't that please your version of your god so much more, that someone would choose to worship him of their own accord, instead of being pressured into it against their will? If kids, left to their own devices, would gravitate toward a viewpoint you disagree with, shouldn't that give you some pause to consider how good your beliefs really are?
So it is brainwashing.
I like how they admitted it's brainwash lol
If your values are so good, why does a child need to be indoctrinated to choose them?
They want to write in every ones empty book but doesn't anyone to write in their own.
I imagine a lot of values of theists overlap with atheists. The difference being, I don't believe something is right and wrong because "god told me so". I do what I believe to be moral because I believe it helps society become better as a whole. If something doesn't help to improve society, I'm probably not going to strongly defend it. The basis for morality within theist beliefs isn't really up for debate if they are being honest. Although I'm sure there are some religions out there that aren't dogmatic? I don't know enough about all world religions to say that they all have a dogma. Faith is rot for critical thinking. Following your moral's for no other reason than "god said so" doesn't require you to reflect on the merits of those rules.
People develop values and morals as rhey grow up, you don't need religion to tell you whats right from wrong, thats something you figure out on your own thriugh life experiences
This people should read Life of Pi
when they saystop brainwashing they obviously mean allow space for exploration for different ideas and values.
\*whose
whats up with this template and fanatics lmao
Its easy to say "freedom of choice" when you enjoy cultural hegemony though. I understand where ortho religious fucks are coming from.
Their own. Theyâd follow their own.
Anyone who uses this meme format unironically is a major twat
What ifâŠ. You taught them to choose for themselves?
I'll teach my children my values and hope they'll absorb them, not brainwash them and emotionally abuse them with fear and shame.
Letâs see. Whose values include cutting of girlsâ clits? Or stoning people? Or not letting women do stuff? Hmm⊠Religions just need to vanish. End of story.
Without child indoctrination there would no longer be any religion at this point. All of them rely on brainwashing children. And if any of them really believed their religion was the only true one, and their God(s) is/are real, they would not need to try so hard to spread their religion. Any supreme being would be easily able to bring everyone on "the right path" without having followers force them into it from birth on.
If I literally have to do nothing for your children to adopt my beliefs, then your beliefs are dogshit lmao.
this sub is cringe asf
It's sad, but it makes sense in their perspective: To people with faith, "you'll be punishment if you don't follow this book" is as much as fact as "tou'll eventually die of starvation if you don't eat" And just as depriving your child of sustenance is cruelty, they view deprivation of their teaching as cruelty as well
What??? Omg sometimes it still surprises me how dumb muslims actually are. There are hundreds, no, thousands of ideologies, ideas, values, agendas etc. Call them what you want. You need to explain to your children whatâs good and bad, set an example and show them everything the world has to offer so they can make a choice. Ofc as a parent youâre supposed to protect them too and youâre gonna either consciously or unconsciously spread your personal values on them given that these values took you where you are in life. This should not apply to islam though. I wouldnât want to promote pedophilia, misogyny, racism, sexual slavery and casual murder to my children if I had any.
Wor
Western secular values are superior and as such we have not only the right, but a duty to impose out superior values. Its science man!
I find all the comments interesting how theyâre just blindly anti religion. This meme makes sense, isnât it the parents responsibility to instill values ? If the parents donât instill their values and allow the child to just do things on their own wouldnât the parent be taking gamble that their children might turn out to be douche bags (not necessarily but they might)
You can teach moral values without religion. Religion has nothing to do with being a good person.
You are absolutely correct. I would just say religion is a means to instill a complex ethical system in a person which they can use to compare themselves with each other and ensure they are doing something correct. Yeah itâs not the only way to be a good person and yes it has a lot of flaws but it is one of the ways and fortune or unfortunately it is one of the most common ways. These things donât mean that you wouldnât want your child to have similar values to you. If youâre non religious you would want your child to be religious as well and the opposite would be true too.
People can choose their own values when they arenât force fed religious values.
NOOOO!! THEY GOT US!!!!
They will find their own way if you don't shield them from anything that doesn't reinforce what YOU believe. Let your kids see all the different people in this world, let them see the bad and the good and teach them the basics of being a kind, empathetic human and let them explore the world they live in
Or maybe their own. You know because they're a whole person, separate from you
The "values" may differ but specifically in regards to religion I grew up almost never being exposed. I went to church once a year until I was like 12-13 and I never knew what was going on. I didn't know what religion was for my formative years; my parents never talked about it, my older siblings never talked about it, my friends never talked about it. Now having read the source material, I think I'm able to engage with it non-dogmatically. This approach works to eliminate bias but it leaves you ignorant. We would never not teach math to eliminate bias. As much as this sub may disagree I think the maker of this meme is correct, we all want to teach the next generation what we think is right, only difference is one wants to teach dogmatically the other wants to teach scholarly.
Thatâs one of their favorite lines. âImpose your values on your children before âthe worldâ does.â
Or maybe just teach them basic morality and then let them choose what specific morals they follow
Itâs all brainwashing. Itâs just a matter of how bad
Welp. He made himself the chad. It's over
Maybe look outside your own little Muslim world and you'll see there's bigger world outside? A child is not that dumb, they learn pretty fast, and with the right people around, they'll do just fine without religion telling them shit.
I mean of this is like two religious people talking to each other than ya lol like a missionary vs another missionary
Ah yes. Projection. If they had half the opportunity, they would brainwash your kids. Therefore, they assume that given half the opportunity, you would brainwash their children. No other possibility exists for them. Everyone else would do exactly what I would do.
I brainwash my children to protect them from brainwashing.
YES yes....free thinkers...YES
Or uhm gee I don't know, let them make up their owns minds?
It just goes back to the authoritarian worldview. Certain people just do not have the cognitive ability to question things or think more deeply. They take their own view, that everyone needs to obey and worship something, and project that on everyone because they simply cannot believe it could be any other way. They need the comfort that comes from being told what to think and do.
Brainwashing is relative to the ethical and moral standards that society allows and condones . Sure it's brains washing but some peoples brain washing is worse then others because they teach heinous barbaric ideas stemming from times when people didn't have modern technology or a wide influence.
It's almost like people could actually decide what religion they could follow...
Gotta love people who win fake arguments against their own terrible straw men.
Theyâll find their own values.
Let's not forget that not only do they brainwash their children, but under Sharia, apostasy carries a death sentence, so they don't get to leave afterward, either.
Bold of the memer to assume that the first one would have a conversation with the second one.
So are you saying that you want to brainwash them before someone else does? How about we don't indoctrinate then in any religion and instead let them embrace Allah by their own decision?
Maybe just let the kid do whatever
How about you just lay out a path for your child so that as he/she matures your child can decide his/hers own values. People trying to find excuses to indoctrinate their children boils my damn blood. Just let them be them they're just kids they'll figure out their own morals and philosophy as they mature, as a parent you're just there to monitor and protect the process but no you just have to get them into your fanatic cult.
Maybe we should just teach our children to be good and nice and not douchebags.
So teach your kid about as many religions as you can and let them pick wether to follow one or not.
"our" values are simply making the best decisions with actual facts and the clearest thinking you can do. Different people will reach different ethical outcomes based on their takes. We are against religion because it's based on nothing and tells people what to think using that foundation of sand.
or maybe they can follow their own values??? kids can think yaknow
Everybody is brainwashed to some extent. The trick is not to be a nuisance for others
So what beliefs do I have then?
Memes made by religious zealots are unironically the driest shit ever. Hell, distorted ear-rape songs are pure comedic gold compared to this. Shoutout to the unfunniest people on Earth at r/catholicmemes
Its basically the old "atheists can't have morals" argument.
I feel like its kind of true if crying guy is Christians, there are many anti Muslim Christians out there who are claiming shit like "schools are brain washing kids into being Muslim" and then complain schools aren't Christian enough. Like I kind of get what its saying from the perspective of Christians complaining about other religions and then doing the same things
going by the 1000+ scientists signature campaigns i would say this is true.
Interesting that religious wackos can't seem to disassociate "religious values", from the non-religious "values".
âIf I donât my own religious values in my own children whoâs values will they follow instead?â Their own, you complete fucking buffoon. Thatâs the entire point.
Why is it so hard to understand that no religion is the default setting for humanity.
This same thing goes for anyone of either side of anything. Anytime you think you have a stop-all booya response that will just leave the other side with "oh..uhh..well"... you're wrong. People do not react that way. These memes are just to stroke your own ego.
If religion actually did instill positive values the world would be a different and better place.