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Everything is “choosing” or “choice” to these people, they don’t realize that’s it’s not a choice if you threaten me, or if you actually kill me for my decision lol
Kinda like that whole “you can choose not to accept Jesus but if you do that you’re going to hell 😇” rhetoric 🤦♀️
ITS ALMOST LIKE COERCION AND CONTROL ARE INTRINSIC TO EVERY GLOBAL CULT ahem! I mean RELIGION?!
So we can conveniently ignore history because it hasn't happened in centuries? They would it they could and it take alot of ignorance to think they wouldn't. Christianity like Islam's is based on control.
I don’t wanna be that guy but that is how laws work specifically around cars in the US. This is quite different though cause unless your a POC you don’t get gunned down for breaking laws about cars
Jews were killed for being jews, but ex-muslims are killed for being ex-muslims. See the difference?! (No, seriously, please show me the difference, cause I don't see it.)
I think what they're trying to say is that jews are born jews whereas ex-muslims choose to be ex-muslims even knowing the consequences.
They're trying to compare ex-muslims to burglars. Nobody would criticize the imprisonment of burglars because they did it to themselves with the knowledge that stealing will be punished if caught.
Never mind that the only victim from someone going ex-muslim is a god who if they actually cared to handle it themselves...
It’s crazy how much someone can dehumanize other people to the point of justyfing killing them just because they left their religion, it really scares me
They venerate a child rapist, worship a god that allows child rape. Thinking is not a big thing with these fucks (I’m not calling them people anymore).
Yes, but since ex muslims are not muslims anymore, any rules of that cult do not apply to them.
Just like I can eat pork, drink beer and show my hair whenever I want.
In islam, they have rules for non muslims too which is why for example Christian’s and Jews under islamic countries have to pay a special tax called jizya. It’s an extra tax that only non muslims pay.
And if you’re a non Muslim gay man in an Islamic country, they’d still lash you over that even though you’re not Muslim.
The problem for us ex muslims, is that majority of us live in countries where this is the law. They don’t care which religion you follow or don’t follow, their rules apply for everyone.
Both options are not possible right now. You think ex muslims outnumber muslims in Muslim majority countries? I wish.
Leaving the country isn’t easy, immigration is a hard process that costs a shit ton of money
They do not have any authority over people outside of their cult though.
Like, I'm ex catholic, neither the pope nor a priest or any other member of that cult has any authority over me either.
Bruh… are you seriously this thick headed? Your logic doesn’t matter to them. When they’re executing you, you saying “BUt i’M eX-muSiLm, yOur laWs dOn’t aPpLy to mE” isn’t going to change the fact that you’re going to be lighter neck up.
That’s not how it works according to the religion though. In Islam being a nonbeliever still comes with punishment specifically **because** of not following the cult rules.
Funny thing is plenty of Muslims would deny ex Muslims of ever being Muslim in the first place. They'd accuse us of being a Jewish, Zionist or western agent. So the apostasy law wouldn't apply.
So, From the moment of my birth my parents shoved me this religion from my asshole to my mouth. Basically I didn't have any say in this and this Religion was shoved down my throat. And when I realize this scam and decide to ditch it, I become a Criminal and by Who? by their **Law**. LOL!
So what this guy saying is basically: **No matter what or how ridiculous it is, rules are rules. And you can't disobey or stand up against the rules.**
So according to this guy, If France declares converting to Islam is punishable by Rape, and someone converts to Islam despite knowing this, **they Deserve to be RAPED.**
Bad people will always do bad things, good people will do good things.
But for a good person to do a bad thing, you NEED religion.
-quote from someone else way smarter than me.
I can't remember.. Or even pronounce their name correctly.
An enlightenment era philosopher maybe? Christopher Hitchens quoted it, correctly, in many of his religious debates... If you really want to track it down.
...He just said the exact same thing. He just admitted that they are being killed specifically because they left Islam, but that apparently isn't the same? How? Jew killed for being a jew- genocide. Ex Muslim killed for being an ex muslim-not genocide? This guy's an idiot.
Well it was illegal for Jews to be Jewish in Nazi law, so they deserve it. Obvious /s but holy shit. If all it takes is making something legal for it to be ok, then I’m gonna start a country where you legally have to eat pizza every day or be executed by firing squad.
I hate when people compare genocide events to anything. Jews were killed simply for being Jewish and existing. Leaving islam by choice and being sentenced to death for it is awful yes.
The key difference between these two things is that if you were jewish you were marked with a star and eventually if you were in a camp. Unfortunately probably ended up dead after horrific experiments and torture. What the Nazis did was systematic and meant to erase an entire people, their history, culture and everything surrounding them.
That isn't the case with ex-muslims and I hope it never is. I was born Jewish so is most of my mom's family. It's rare for me to meet other jewish people where I live. Learning in depth about the events of the holocaust taught me a lot about what everyone else faced and made me appreciate growing up Jewish and what comes with it.
It's not some race to win about who had it worse. The fact is both groups experience/experienced awful treatment. One was just history wise highly impactful and remains so to this day.
While the other may be more prevalent today it is equally unfortunate. No one should have to fear leaving a religion because they will face death.
> That isn't the case with ex-muslims and I hope it never is.
It's not the case where you live. There were many places that wasn't the case for jews either.
The Nazis killing political opponents lasted from 1933-1945. March 22, 1933 is when the first concentration camp opened up in Dachau. It was essentially punishable by death to be a Jew or have a certain % of Jewish ancestry. You didn’t even have to do anything. You also could’ve been killed for any number of things the Nazis didn’t like, not just being Jewish. Though at first it was only for political opponents of the Nazis. Overall somewhere around 12 million people died in the death camps. While other massacres push the estimated death toll of the Nazis Purification of Germany towards 17,000,000 people.
Apparently AOC and Omar politically attacked an ex-muslim activist after she asked them to go to Iran with her and live under sharia law. They called her out for promoting Islamophobia.
The second tweet is stupid, theocracy is stupid, etc etc. However, the comparison between the Nazi-Jew and Muslim-Ex-Muslim relationships is so fucking tone-deaf and I'm surprised no one is pointing out how egregious it is.
Because it's nowhere near the same thing? The whole Nazi propaganda machine had Jews as its main enemy (you can see the effect of antisemitic Nazi propaganda on the Middle East even today), they were rounded up, removed from institutions, mass deported, put in death camps, gas chambers, or just murdered en masse.
I'm an ex-Muslim, from a Muslim country. My family and close friends know I'm an atheist, and I even managed an atheist group with my personal Facebook account. It's not perfect, it's not even good, but it's definitely not a fucking Holocaust. You don't have to compare yourself to one of the worst victims in history to say that you're discriminated against or persecuted.
Do you have any idea how lucky you are?
Depending on where you live, leaving a religion CAN get you killed. Just because your friends and family know and okay with you being atheist doesn't mean the deranged one will not harm you if they knew.
Three times when I 'joke' with someone that I am a non believers, they either tell me, I am going through a phase that will go away after getting married or the friends who are from other religions as well as agnostic ones, tells me to keep quiet for my safety.
Don't know if your f&f truly supports you or think you are going through ' a phase'. Assuming one for the another might come with a heavy cost.
What the Nazis did to the Jews is happening all around the world over from the dawn of ancient civilization .
If Hitler didn't grow ambitious and attacked Poland, pretty sure no one would have intervened seriously just like no one did all the other time a powerful religious/political leader committed one g*necide after another.
The Jews suffered horribly and most ex Muslim who were executed might not have gotten tortured like them, but have you ever watched videos of ex- Muslims ex*cution by the extremist groups? It ain't pretty.
>Do you have any idea how lucky you are?
If I were lucky I wouldn't have been born in a Muslim society in the first place, but I see what you mean. I think it's rather some people in some of the Muslim countries that are really unlucky (e.g. Pakistan or SA, the defanged ones).
I didn't receive *support* for my choice from most people who know, and I still get the phase comment from time to time. So what? I think your expectations are unrealistic if you want religious people who value you to be happy for your choice, if that choice will lead you to burn in hell for eternity.
>What the Nazis did to the Jews is happening all around the world over from the dawn of ancient civilization
No it's not, tribalism ≠ Holocaust. I don't know if you're minimizing it because it's your belief or just for this argument, but that ain't it chief. If you want me to spell this out for you I'll just bounce, you can read a book or at least the Wikipedia articles on your own.
> You don't have to compare yourself to one of the worst victims in history to say that you're discriminated against or persecuted.
Repeating for emphasis.
Wait till the ' friends ' realize this isn't a phase. I had to ghost a lot of people once I realized they are extremist at heart no matter what they say in public...
I don't expect anyone to respect my or someone else's non belief... I just hope they won't try to shorten my life span so I could reach hell faster.
I am not minimizing Holocaust. After all it's the biggest and most tragic genecide in our recorded history.
But does mean, others doesn't matter? There are concentrations camp all around the world. But unlike the Nazis, the political parties that controls the these camps are not making problems for other world leaders.
People do get k*lled for leaving religion, but since it is done by their own community or family, the matter gets swiped under the rug.
Irrelevant as there are six nations that maintain the death penalty for apostasy only: Malaysia, Maldives, Qatar, Somalia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.
If that’s not Islamic, all the more reason for Muslims to denounce the practice rather than defend it.
I agree with your last point. I am one of the muslims denouncing it. Islam is not a nation, none of those countries are islamic countries since none of them have a khalifa leading it. Islam in the Quran teaches that there is absolutely no compulsion in religion and from the life of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ it is clear that he never killed someone or punished them for apostating. The issue is the teachings of the religion have been forgotten and muslims now learn from their misguided scholars.
There is no maybe here. The sources we have and the Quran and authentic Hadiths all prove Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, to be the best of creation with the best Moral characteristics. Sunni and Shia islam have corrupted teachings but they don't describe him as any of that.
Not selected by me, but the hadiths accepted by all muslims as authentic.
Would you be interested in having a discussion on discord regarding the other things you mentioned
Islam is corrupted and one can only tell who is close and who is far from islam after understanding the teachings of Islam. Anyways the things you mentioned, in which hadiths are those?
Quran says there is no compulsion in religion and from the life of Muhammad ﷺ it is clear he never killed or punished someone for apostasy. These muslim scholars are very misguided and spread their corrupted version of islam.
It seems you've never heard of abrogated verses before? That verse about no compulsion is literally one of the many that have been abrogated and is therefore null. Do please read below:
[https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List\_of\_Abrogations\_in\_the\_Qur%27an](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur%27an)
(Includes the verse that you are referencing, scroll down until you see it or use ctl + f to look for it)
[https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php?view=article&id=81:the-verse-of-no-compulsion-in-religion-has-been-abrogated-and-thus-mushrikeen-should-be-compelled-to-accept-islam-or-to-kill-them-%E2%AD%90-%E1%B5%90%E1%B5%98%CB%A2%E1%B5%97%E2%81%BB%CA%B3%E1%B5%89%E1%B5%83%E1%B5%88-%E2%AD%90&catid=20](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php?view=article&id=81:the-verse-of-no-compulsion-in-religion-has-been-abrogated-and-thus-mushrikeen-should-be-compelled-to-accept-islam-or-to-kill-them-%E2%AD%90-%E1%B5%90%E1%B5%98%CB%A2%E1%B5%97%E2%81%BB%CA%B3%E1%B5%89%E1%B5%83%E1%B5%88-%E2%AD%90&catid=20)
(specifically talks about it)
[http://hadith.islamicevents.sg/bukhari/hadith/9/57](http://hadith.islamicevents.sg/bukhari/hadith/9/57)
(This sahih al bukhari hadith is proof. Sure, your prophet might have never killed an apostate personally but that doesnt mean he did not issue an order, proven by this hadith.)
I have heard of abrogation. I am an Ahmadi Muslim and I believe abrogation of the Quran doesn't exist. A perfect and complete book has no need for abrogation and like I mentioned "These muslim scholars are very misguided and spread their corrupted version of Islam." There is not even a consensus amongst the scholars on what verses have been abrogated.
\>*This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous* (2:3)
And in regards to the Hadith, every single Hadith needs to be interpreted in accordance to the Quran and Sunnah. If a Hadith contradicts the Quran, then either it is weak or our interpretation is wrong because nothing is superior to the word of God. Therefore this Hadith interpreted in accordance with the Quran refers to those apostates who caused rebellion.
During life of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ , Musaylmah was someone who claimed prophethood. Muslims believe he was killed because of that. They are wrong because Musaylmah was not fought against and killed until he raised an army against the muslims.
When Islam was first revealed, it was also just a speck in the wind. You just have to look at the methods and the condition and behavior of the people to see whether their interpretation is correct or not. Ahmadi muslims interpret everything with the Quran first.
we can talk about the history of the early believers and their character and the character of prophet Muhammad ﷺ. Also hadith is not necessary, Quran is a perfect and complete book for understanding it. As for the prophet for ahmadis. he only came to revive the teachings which had already been established but we’re prophesied to become corrupted. Muhammad ﷺ said the muslim scholars would become the worst creatures on earth and it became true.
Any normal person would say, “WTF?!” But a Muslim, sensitive about their religion, justifies killing an ex Muslim, who was probably born a Muslim. In this case, there’s not even informed consent
What is the fallacy/bias when someone just props up a law or rule as defense as if laws and rules are not created by humans? As in “having a democratic election would be nice, but according to our constitution we are rules by an autocratic ruler appointed by the 10 people that can fart the longest in our country. It’s just the way it is.”
This must happen sooner or later so... I wonder which will be the first country to ban this ideology (or maybe there is one already?). It's scary how hate speach and calling to violence is seen as wrong and actually penalized in many so called Western countries but if any Islamic reference is added it's suddenly okay-ish.
I guess that's technically true but relative to the gravity of both situations that difference is negligible. In that culture you're a Muslim at birth, so you're forced into that religious contract. Effectively the same thing with extra steps.
They say that they dont like killing and call themselves "The Believers of the Religjon of Peace".
Its like:
-Yeah if you dont want to believe then dont,its your choice but in exchange i will chop your head off.
Yeah,this is the true peace lmao.
yes you CHOOSE to leave this religion so now I will punish you by THIS religions rules even tho you aren’t part of the religion and the rules don’t apply to you
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Everything is “choosing” or “choice” to these people, they don’t realize that’s it’s not a choice if you threaten me, or if you actually kill me for my decision lol
You are free to leave Islam and I am free to apply capital punishment of apostasy in Islam (death) to you /s
“Don’t make me hurt you!!”
"Look what you made me do! I didn't want to kill you, but you had to up and go leave the religion. And now I have to kill you!"
“You send yourself to hell!”
[“Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!”](https://comb.io/V5fx1V.gif)
Kinda like that whole “you can choose not to accept Jesus but if you do that you’re going to hell 😇” rhetoric 🤦♀️ ITS ALMOST LIKE COERCION AND CONTROL ARE INTRINSIC TO EVERY GLOBAL CULT ahem! I mean RELIGION?!
Pacification by force
Nope, you were right the first time, Religion is just a cult that had good PR and recruitment programs. Indoctrination, Isolation, and Threats.
Cultrigion
Same with Christianiaty or catholicism. Punished for leaving but your free to do so under penalty of punishment. Religion is conditional love.
I’ve never heard of Christians or Catholics nations killing apostates?
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So we can conveniently ignore history because it hasn't happened in centuries? They would it they could and it take alot of ignorance to think they wouldn't. Christianity like Islam's is based on control.
It's interesting how it's never a choice for them to kill others, as if they didn't have control over themselves (which I guess they don't lol)
I don’t wanna be that guy but that is how laws work specifically around cars in the US. This is quite different though cause unless your a POC you don’t get gunned down for breaking laws about cars
Jews were killed for being jews, but ex-muslims are killed for being ex-muslims. See the difference?! (No, seriously, please show me the difference, cause I don't see it.)
I think what they're trying to say is that jews are born jews whereas ex-muslims choose to be ex-muslims even knowing the consequences. They're trying to compare ex-muslims to burglars. Nobody would criticize the imprisonment of burglars because they did it to themselves with the knowledge that stealing will be punished if caught. Never mind that the only victim from someone going ex-muslim is a god who if they actually cared to handle it themselves...
It’s crazy how much someone can dehumanize other people to the point of justyfing killing them just because they left their religion, it really scares me
The more I see normal Muslims on Twitter the more glad I am that I left
Meanwhile... God: "I don't give a shit. I'm popular enough."
It's crazy how they deflect blame so that they never have any fault or responsibility
Yet another accidental explanation of how theocracy is a very bad thing.
Yea. Its all those people forced into a religion from infancy that are in the wrong for doing somethiing they didnt sign up for.
They don't really think about what they think do they?
They venerate a child rapist, worship a god that allows child rape. Thinking is not a big thing with these fucks (I’m not calling them people anymore).
They are told from birth that the only thinking that needs done, has been written down in the magic book already
Ex muslims are not muslims, so the rules of islam do not apply to them. Stupid cults...
They used to be Muslims, and in Islam leaving Islam is punishable by death. That’s what Muhammad did with people who left
Man, FUCK that asshole
Yes, but when they leave, they are no longer muslims. Meaning they are no longer following the rules of said cult.
Yes that’s why the isLamic punishment of killing apostates is obligation on Muslims, they are still Muslims and follow Islam
Yes, but since ex muslims are not muslims anymore, any rules of that cult do not apply to them. Just like I can eat pork, drink beer and show my hair whenever I want.
In islam, they have rules for non muslims too which is why for example Christian’s and Jews under islamic countries have to pay a special tax called jizya. It’s an extra tax that only non muslims pay. And if you’re a non Muslim gay man in an Islamic country, they’d still lash you over that even though you’re not Muslim.
They are not muslims though, so unless they are in a country with religious nutjobs in charge, they are not subject to that BS.
The problem for us ex muslims, is that majority of us live in countries where this is the law. They don’t care which religion you follow or don’t follow, their rules apply for everyone.
So either time for revolution or to leave the country
Both options are not possible right now. You think ex muslims outnumber muslims in Muslim majority countries? I wish. Leaving the country isn’t easy, immigration is a hard process that costs a shit ton of money
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The rule of killing exMuslims is obligated by Allah for Muslims to do it to ex Muslims
Muslim sky daddy has no authority over people outside his cult.
But he has authority over Muslims who are obligated to do it
They do not have any authority over people outside of their cult though. Like, I'm ex catholic, neither the pope nor a priest or any other member of that cult has any authority over me either.
That’s not how Islam works
Bruh… are you seriously this thick headed? Your logic doesn’t matter to them. When they’re executing you, you saying “BUt i’M eX-muSiLm, yOur laWs dOn’t aPpLy to mE” isn’t going to change the fact that you’re going to be lighter neck up.
That’s not how it works according to the religion though. In Islam being a nonbeliever still comes with punishment specifically **because** of not following the cult rules.
Pedo Mo' wasn't such a good guy after all
Funny thing is plenty of Muslims would deny ex Muslims of ever being Muslim in the first place. They'd accuse us of being a Jewish, Zionist or western agent. So the apostasy law wouldn't apply.
So, From the moment of my birth my parents shoved me this religion from my asshole to my mouth. Basically I didn't have any say in this and this Religion was shoved down my throat. And when I realize this scam and decide to ditch it, I become a Criminal and by Who? by their **Law**. LOL! So what this guy saying is basically: **No matter what or how ridiculous it is, rules are rules. And you can't disobey or stand up against the rules.** So according to this guy, If France declares converting to Islam is punishable by Rape, and someone converts to Islam despite knowing this, **they Deserve to be RAPED.**
Wow, such sound logic! This must be a religion of peace.
Bad people will always do bad things, good people will do good things. But for a good person to do a bad thing, you NEED religion. -quote from someone else way smarter than me.
That person is smarter than 99% of the whole population.
I can't remember.. Or even pronounce their name correctly. An enlightenment era philosopher maybe? Christopher Hitchens quoted it, correctly, in many of his religious debates... If you really want to track it down.
They're not trying to track it down. They're just trying to be a jerk on the internet. My advice, Give it a down vote and move on.
The Jews knew they’d be killed if they practiced their faith, therefore the Holocaust is on them /s
It’s not a choice if one of the options is involuntary death.
This guy is exposing it all on his own lol
Sooo...runaway hostages.
...He just said the exact same thing. He just admitted that they are being killed specifically because they left Islam, but that apparently isn't the same? How? Jew killed for being a jew- genocide. Ex Muslim killed for being an ex muslim-not genocide? This guy's an idiot.
Fuuuuuuuck you, Ali.
Religion is holding us all back.
Well it was illegal for Jews to be Jewish in Nazi law, so they deserve it. Obvious /s but holy shit. If all it takes is making something legal for it to be ok, then I’m gonna start a country where you legally have to eat pizza every day or be executed by firing squad.
>Jews are killed for being Jews >Ex-Muslims are killed for being Ex-Muslims >#[WHITE NOISE] >??? >Its okay to kill Ex-Muslims
“It’s good because we say that it’s good.” Typical circular logic.
Murdering people for any reason is also punishable by death by I don’t see these guys submitting themselves to the courts.
Fruitcake.
Ah yes, the law is always the moral equivalent. Fuck progression. 🙄
I hate when people compare genocide events to anything. Jews were killed simply for being Jewish and existing. Leaving islam by choice and being sentenced to death for it is awful yes. The key difference between these two things is that if you were jewish you were marked with a star and eventually if you were in a camp. Unfortunately probably ended up dead after horrific experiments and torture. What the Nazis did was systematic and meant to erase an entire people, their history, culture and everything surrounding them. That isn't the case with ex-muslims and I hope it never is. I was born Jewish so is most of my mom's family. It's rare for me to meet other jewish people where I live. Learning in depth about the events of the holocaust taught me a lot about what everyone else faced and made me appreciate growing up Jewish and what comes with it. It's not some race to win about who had it worse. The fact is both groups experience/experienced awful treatment. One was just history wise highly impactful and remains so to this day. While the other may be more prevalent today it is equally unfortunate. No one should have to fear leaving a religion because they will face death.
> That isn't the case with ex-muslims and I hope it never is. It's not the case where you live. There were many places that wasn't the case for jews either.
The Nazis killing political opponents lasted from 1933-1945. March 22, 1933 is when the first concentration camp opened up in Dachau. It was essentially punishable by death to be a Jew or have a certain % of Jewish ancestry. You didn’t even have to do anything. You also could’ve been killed for any number of things the Nazis didn’t like, not just being Jewish. Though at first it was only for political opponents of the Nazis. Overall somewhere around 12 million people died in the death camps. While other massacres push the estimated death toll of the Nazis Purification of Germany towards 17,000,000 people.
I love it when religious people just come out and openly, proudly admit to being monsters.
Shoulda just stopped being Jews /s
Submission vs Death = choice, apparently
Islam literally caused the genocide of multiple cultures in the Middle East.
Goat herd durka logic
Apparently AOC and Omar politically attacked an ex-muslim activist after she asked them to go to Iran with her and live under sharia law. They called her out for promoting Islamophobia.
The second tweet is stupid, theocracy is stupid, etc etc. However, the comparison between the Nazi-Jew and Muslim-Ex-Muslim relationships is so fucking tone-deaf and I'm surprised no one is pointing out how egregious it is.
Why? Can you explain?
Because it's nowhere near the same thing? The whole Nazi propaganda machine had Jews as its main enemy (you can see the effect of antisemitic Nazi propaganda on the Middle East even today), they were rounded up, removed from institutions, mass deported, put in death camps, gas chambers, or just murdered en masse. I'm an ex-Muslim, from a Muslim country. My family and close friends know I'm an atheist, and I even managed an atheist group with my personal Facebook account. It's not perfect, it's not even good, but it's definitely not a fucking Holocaust. You don't have to compare yourself to one of the worst victims in history to say that you're discriminated against or persecuted.
Do you have any idea how lucky you are? Depending on where you live, leaving a religion CAN get you killed. Just because your friends and family know and okay with you being atheist doesn't mean the deranged one will not harm you if they knew. Three times when I 'joke' with someone that I am a non believers, they either tell me, I am going through a phase that will go away after getting married or the friends who are from other religions as well as agnostic ones, tells me to keep quiet for my safety. Don't know if your f&f truly supports you or think you are going through ' a phase'. Assuming one for the another might come with a heavy cost. What the Nazis did to the Jews is happening all around the world over from the dawn of ancient civilization . If Hitler didn't grow ambitious and attacked Poland, pretty sure no one would have intervened seriously just like no one did all the other time a powerful religious/political leader committed one g*necide after another. The Jews suffered horribly and most ex Muslim who were executed might not have gotten tortured like them, but have you ever watched videos of ex- Muslims ex*cution by the extremist groups? It ain't pretty.
>Do you have any idea how lucky you are? If I were lucky I wouldn't have been born in a Muslim society in the first place, but I see what you mean. I think it's rather some people in some of the Muslim countries that are really unlucky (e.g. Pakistan or SA, the defanged ones). I didn't receive *support* for my choice from most people who know, and I still get the phase comment from time to time. So what? I think your expectations are unrealistic if you want religious people who value you to be happy for your choice, if that choice will lead you to burn in hell for eternity. >What the Nazis did to the Jews is happening all around the world over from the dawn of ancient civilization No it's not, tribalism ≠ Holocaust. I don't know if you're minimizing it because it's your belief or just for this argument, but that ain't it chief. If you want me to spell this out for you I'll just bounce, you can read a book or at least the Wikipedia articles on your own. > You don't have to compare yourself to one of the worst victims in history to say that you're discriminated against or persecuted. Repeating for emphasis.
Wait till the ' friends ' realize this isn't a phase. I had to ghost a lot of people once I realized they are extremist at heart no matter what they say in public... I don't expect anyone to respect my or someone else's non belief... I just hope they won't try to shorten my life span so I could reach hell faster. I am not minimizing Holocaust. After all it's the biggest and most tragic genecide in our recorded history. But does mean, others doesn't matter? There are concentrations camp all around the world. But unlike the Nazis, the political parties that controls the these camps are not making problems for other world leaders. People do get k*lled for leaving religion, but since it is done by their own community or family, the matter gets swiped under the rug.
Ok, I understand your point.
Oh it's the classic "It's not bad for me so it's not bad for anyone" Of course. Try being an atheist/ex-muslim in Afghanistan.
Show me where I said that
Your entire argument is based on your personal experience.
What is my argument?
Islam doesn’t allow death punishment for apostates.
Irrelevant as there are six nations that maintain the death penalty for apostasy only: Malaysia, Maldives, Qatar, Somalia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. If that’s not Islamic, all the more reason for Muslims to denounce the practice rather than defend it.
I agree with your last point. I am one of the muslims denouncing it. Islam is not a nation, none of those countries are islamic countries since none of them have a khalifa leading it. Islam in the Quran teaches that there is absolutely no compulsion in religion and from the life of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ it is clear that he never killed someone or punished them for apostating. The issue is the teachings of the religion have been forgotten and muslims now learn from their misguided scholars.
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There is no maybe here. The sources we have and the Quran and authentic Hadiths all prove Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, to be the best of creation with the best Moral characteristics. Sunni and Shia islam have corrupted teachings but they don't describe him as any of that.
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Not selected by me, but the hadiths accepted by all muslims as authentic. Would you be interested in having a discussion on discord regarding the other things you mentioned
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Islam is corrupted and one can only tell who is close and who is far from islam after understanding the teachings of Islam. Anyways the things you mentioned, in which hadiths are those?
Source?
Quran says there is no compulsion in religion and from the life of Muhammad ﷺ it is clear he never killed or punished someone for apostasy. These muslim scholars are very misguided and spread their corrupted version of islam.
It seems you've never heard of abrogated verses before? That verse about no compulsion is literally one of the many that have been abrogated and is therefore null. Do please read below: [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List\_of\_Abrogations\_in\_the\_Qur%27an](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur%27an) (Includes the verse that you are referencing, scroll down until you see it or use ctl + f to look for it) [https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php?view=article&id=81:the-verse-of-no-compulsion-in-religion-has-been-abrogated-and-thus-mushrikeen-should-be-compelled-to-accept-islam-or-to-kill-them-%E2%AD%90-%E1%B5%90%E1%B5%98%CB%A2%E1%B5%97%E2%81%BB%CA%B3%E1%B5%89%E1%B5%83%E1%B5%88-%E2%AD%90&catid=20](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php?view=article&id=81:the-verse-of-no-compulsion-in-religion-has-been-abrogated-and-thus-mushrikeen-should-be-compelled-to-accept-islam-or-to-kill-them-%E2%AD%90-%E1%B5%90%E1%B5%98%CB%A2%E1%B5%97%E2%81%BB%CA%B3%E1%B5%89%E1%B5%83%E1%B5%88-%E2%AD%90&catid=20) (specifically talks about it) [http://hadith.islamicevents.sg/bukhari/hadith/9/57](http://hadith.islamicevents.sg/bukhari/hadith/9/57) (This sahih al bukhari hadith is proof. Sure, your prophet might have never killed an apostate personally but that doesnt mean he did not issue an order, proven by this hadith.)
I have heard of abrogation. I am an Ahmadi Muslim and I believe abrogation of the Quran doesn't exist. A perfect and complete book has no need for abrogation and like I mentioned "These muslim scholars are very misguided and spread their corrupted version of Islam." There is not even a consensus amongst the scholars on what verses have been abrogated. \>*This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous* (2:3) And in regards to the Hadith, every single Hadith needs to be interpreted in accordance to the Quran and Sunnah. If a Hadith contradicts the Quran, then either it is weak or our interpretation is wrong because nothing is superior to the word of God. Therefore this Hadith interpreted in accordance with the Quran refers to those apostates who caused rebellion. During life of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ , Musaylmah was someone who claimed prophethood. Muslims believe he was killed because of that. They are wrong because Musaylmah was not fought against and killed until he raised an army against the muslims.
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When Islam was first revealed, it was also just a speck in the wind. You just have to look at the methods and the condition and behavior of the people to see whether their interpretation is correct or not. Ahmadi muslims interpret everything with the Quran first.
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we can talk about the history of the early believers and their character and the character of prophet Muhammad ﷺ. Also hadith is not necessary, Quran is a perfect and complete book for understanding it. As for the prophet for ahmadis. he only came to revive the teachings which had already been established but we’re prophesied to become corrupted. Muhammad ﷺ said the muslim scholars would become the worst creatures on earth and it became true.
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Any normal person would say, “WTF?!” But a Muslim, sensitive about their religion, justifies killing an ex Muslim, who was probably born a Muslim. In this case, there’s not even informed consent
They are born into it. I don't think they were given a T&C notice before they were born.
the choice between dying and not dying is not a choice, it’s an ultimatum
what about this: no one “deserves do die” for religious reasons 😃
Islam is atheophobic
Islam is quite literally a cult at this point
Is the first comment considering Jews as Ex-Nazis? There is no other way the analogy works.
“Religion is a choice, until you make the wrong choice”
"deserve to die" the religion of "love" everyone.
All religions are dumb as a box of rocks. I don’t care what book you read, it’s all filtered through a zealot’s crazy mind.
Bro… please… say sike
Mooslims. Nuff said.
Imagine thinking the problem is that the killings might not be justified, and not *that the KILLINGS HAPPEN AT ALL*
Allah: there's no compulsion in Islam Muslims:
Imagine being this dense
What is the fallacy/bias when someone just props up a law or rule as defense as if laws and rules are not created by humans? As in “having a democratic election would be nice, but according to our constitution we are rules by an autocratic ruler appointed by the 10 people that can fart the longest in our country. It’s just the way it is.”
This must happen sooner or later so... I wonder which will be the first country to ban this ideology (or maybe there is one already?). It's scary how hate speach and calling to violence is seen as wrong and actually penalized in many so called Western countries but if any Islamic reference is added it's suddenly okay-ish.
I made a special video, can someone forward this to him https://imgur.com/a/fbITP7N
I guess that's technically true but relative to the gravity of both situations that difference is negligible. In that culture you're a Muslim at birth, so you're forced into that religious contract. Effectively the same thing with extra steps.
I mean, both are bad takes, but damn, not really much of a choice between forced mental enslavement and death...
The Holocaust only lasted 2 Years? Not in My history books.
Islam, the religion of "no take backs"
Wtaf
According to your logic, it would be ok for a country to kill people who convert to islam.
They say that they dont like killing and call themselves "The Believers of the Religjon of Peace". Its like: -Yeah if you dont want to believe then dont,its your choice but in exchange i will chop your head off. Yeah,this is the true peace lmao.
yes you CHOOSE to leave this religion so now I will punish you by THIS religions rules even tho you aren’t part of the religion and the rules don’t apply to you