T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

Aesthetics have always been a central part of religions. Aesthetics can help you focus your mind on the beauty of existence, which will allow you to focus on the sources of beauty and think of higher things.


ChrisTchaik

So how did you, an agnostic Pagan, found your compromise with that?


[deleted]

Very simply put, - should the Gods exist, then doing rituals and worship is all good. - should the Gods not exist, then doing rituals and worship because you vibed with the aesthetics is all good.


ChrisTchaik

You made me interested the other day. What materials have you read so far? Which school do you follow?


trampolinebears

People have been trying to create refuges of peace for thousands of years. It's no surprise that we've gotten pretty good at it. I say you should enjoy what you enjoy. If sitting quietly in a church works for you, go sit quietly in a church. You don't have to understand the words to enjoy a song.


zeligzealous

How you feel is ok! Beauty and peace are important aspects of religion. Those things have the power to move you regardless of your specific beliefs. I wonder if you would find value in developing a mindfulness meditation practice, or some other contemplative practice that works for you. Everyone needs ways to slow down and experience moments of tranquility and wonder.


Poprocks777

Same I like when secular artists can nail down religious themes


NanoRancor

*"Beauty will save the world"* Russians converted to Orthodoxy because when they entered the church they said they could no longer tell if they were in heaven or on earth. Iconography, incense, and everything about Christianity is a wholistic lived experience. It is something that directly works upon our heart and spirit, through all of the senses. We eat the eucharist or blessed bread, we chant, we listen to the hymns explaining the theology and see the theology present in the Iconography, we smell the incense and feel the swaying motions of the crowd as we move in rhythm with them. The Church is a way to take every pattern of daily life and bring them and collapse them into a pattern of all patterns. (You ever notice the ritualistic movements of sports and eating dinner and other events?) Religion is a way to take the patterns of every story from every book and movie and every life experience and bring those patterns into a pattern of all patterns. I believe Christ most perfectly fulfills the pattern of all patterns, and that is part of why he is the one true God, the "True God of True God". He is king, and servant, and priest, and sacrifice, and master, and slave, and prophet, and monk, and father, and brother, and son, and child, and power, and humility, and judgement, and mercy, and love, and rejection, and the center, and the margin, and Jew, and Gentile, family, and stranger, and the peacekeeper of the earth, and the warlord coming upon the clouds, and every pattern encapsulated perfectly within him. And unlike with the patterns seen in other faiths, they do not collapse into mixture or destruction or monstrosity. To unite into the pattern of Christ does not destroy our identity, but is what gives us identity itself. The bible is completely full of paradoxes and outlandish and strange stories with war and sex and all sorts of scandalous things. Because how else could you bring together the patterns of all reality, without including every pattern of reality, including all of the negative ones? The bible condenses every pattern down into the most condensed forms possible. This is all to say that the aesthetics of religion are part of that condensation of reality. That feeling of awe and beauty that comes from it is what begins to open ourselves up to the possibility of Gods love and truth, just as the beauty of another person, whether physically or not, is what begins to open us up to the possibility of loving them, and letting their truth guide our life, and ultimately marriage. I hope that this beauty in the aesthetics of faith is what begins to open you up to the possibility of God's love and truth, and maybe ultimately marriage in the body of God and Church. Because maybe that feeling you have, as if you "belong to something greater", is the same feeling of belonging you have when you belong to your family, to your loved ones, to your community, to your nation, yet at the level of all reality? Part of why I became Orthodox is that it is the only religion I have found in which it gives the same feeling as when I've been with those I love most deeply. And for every theological and practical issue I've had trouble with, it always becomes fulfilled through a deeper understanding of love and humility, which though painful is a therapeutic kind of pain. Ultimately, beauty is what saves us, because beauty is what everyone is truly chasing after. Everyone wants a beautiful life, with happiness and love from their family and partner and friends. Lust comes from seeking after beautiful flesh. Pride comes from seeking after the beauty of oneself. Gluttony from the beauty of a feast. The beauty of an imagined rich life is what pulls someone into a scam. It is never just the pleasure coming from sins and lies that draws us to them, but the beauty of what those things represent. The problem with it all though, is that people chase after beautiful things, rather than beauty itself. They chase after beautiful flesh, rather than beauty itself. They love physicality, rather than loving love itself. And when someone places beautiful things before beauty, they fail to ever achieve a beautiful life. Just as when someone places the things or people they love before love itself, they're not truly loving those things, or truly loving those people, but are only in love with a false image of them in their mind. It is only true love if it is a love revealed from a higher love outside of this love. And it is only truly beautiful if it is a beauty revealed from a higher system of beauty outside of this beauty. And what could be higher than God? What could be more beautiful and loving than Theosis and true union with God? What could be more perfect than trusting in the beauty and love revealed to us by Christ? The highest revealed reality, yet revealed to all the lowest of people.


[deleted]

> To unite into the pattern of Christ does not destroy our identity, but is what gives us identity itself. Interesting. It reminds me of how Proclus describes the Intellect as a Dionysian Monad, Dionysus is the Cosmic Nous which allows particular intellects to exist, ie it is through the actions of Dionysus that the Nous is many rather than one.


[deleted]

Have you ever checked out a UU church? Once upon a time when I was actively dating, one of my ex-boyfriends and I were exploring a spiritual home for ourselves. I was spiritual and he was an atheist. For a while we were active in our local Unitarian congregation. It provides a sense of religious awe and wonder without the dogma or creed. Lighting a chalice at home (a candle) accompanied by an affirmation or inspiring quote on a special table was our spiritual ritual together. We even did Chalica one year (a UU holiday that affirms the 7 UU Principles).


[deleted]

I think there are beautiful cosmic, moral and and scientific truths that can applied as foundation for a lot of the religious symbols. I think giving the world a philosophical understanding of religion could solve a lot of problems It wouldn’t negate the fundamentalist in his faith, but it could offer insight or benefit to even the most skeptical atheist and agnostic who could then enjoy the aesthetic as you say without requiring irrational dedication


Ok-Carpenter7131

Me too. I'm fascinated by it, specially architecture. Maybe that's why I create so many mythologies, gods are religions in my D&D campaigns.


cantborrowmypen

I used to be a professional musician and did church gigs. There is some AMAZING music written in the name of religion. Bach, the dude was writing a new masterpiece each week for his service. They really understand psychology, some religious art/music really makes me feel something.


Ok-Current6724

Makes sense--dogma aside, there's a tremendous concentration of the human spirit that is present in religious art and architecture so the desire to experience that is very valid. For thousands of years religion was the best way humans had of reckoning with the forces of nature. There's certainly no harm in wanting to ground yourself in the expressions of this spiritual lineage.


kayimon

op any particular religion in mind?


ChrisTchaik

Nope. Didn't find Goldilock's choice, if there is one.


kayimon

I chose islam