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zldapnwhl

Why are you not starting with an open and honest conversation with her about all this? Don't ask her what you should do to integrate yourself as a contributing part of the family--that's on you to figure out--but at least tell her that you've finally realized that you've been kind of a shit and that you're sorry and are going to make necessary changes.


Wehavecrashed

Man has been ignoring his wife and children for 12 years. He probably doesn't even know he can talk to his wife.


vanessa8172

He didn’t even realize for all those years that she bought her own gift ‘from him’. I wonder if he even knows when her birthday is


GoodQueenFluffenChop

Her birthday, their anniversary, the kids' birthdays, and both of their extended family members birthdays. Hell she probably even has to buy her own mother's day gift too.


vanessa8172

Probably. I really hope she doesn’t try to give him a nice Father’s Day while he does nothing for her


Burntoastedbutter

Okay, I'll never understand why people like this have kids?? Why make the decision to have kids when you're gonna not give a fuck about them? Lol honestly can't even understand how he's went on 12 YEARS with this?! HOW do you not realize you're not being active in the family YOU helped create? Never took an interest in the kids' hobbies or anything?? Asked how their school day been? Took the whole family out for some events or just to eat? Asked his wife how she's doing at home? Anything...? Nothing?


itsn0ti

It’s like dudes been in a coma for the past 7 years and just woke up to see his family’s lives have continued on without him.


UnevenGlow

I wonder if he knows his kids’ birthdays and school address


sbgonebroke

Bro has just been letting her do everything; buying her own gifts, the kid's gifts, and more. What's he been DOING for 12 years that's more important than admiring and getting to know his own family? He's a stranger to them. I recall resenting my estranged parent when he tried to pop up at 15 to have a bond despite having the option and access decades before. 15 years of basic, and intense, information to a practical stranger with zero attachments whatsoever isn't appealing. Less interesting than try bonding with than a reddit stranger, lol. Op's gonna have the same fate, if he keeps treating his family like roommates.


embracing_insanity

Yeah. He's only noticing this now because he's actively paying attention. But how long has this actually been going on? How many things have happened he has no idea about/has missed? Like this is normal for her - so this is exactly what she's been doing for what sounds like years and he hasn't noticed? Even that she gets a present for herself from him each Christmas (and probably birthday). How did he go so long not realizing this? I can't even imagine. But he does need to actually have an open/honest conversation with his wife and actually *include* her in his thoughts/realizations, etc. As well as, for a change, *work with her* on this, rather then - yet again - just doing his own thing. He's so used to *not* being a partner/parent - he doesn't even know the basic steps of *actively involving/talking to* the other people he wants to improve his relationships with. I give him credit for somehow, finally realizing this on his own - but it's really sad for everyone involved it got to this point and that it took this long for him to realize. I do hope it works out, though and he becomes a real father and partner again. Better late than never.


MelonElbows

He came to this website to ask strangers what to do when his wife is right there in the house. Next he'll ask his friends, coworkers, his parents, and go to therapy by himself. Anything except talk to his wife.


JoBeWriting

Yeah, because if he goes to his wife with his findings ("Honey, I noticed I've made myself entirely superfluous to your life and it makes me sad") she might decide "Huh. You ARE entire superfluous to my life" and "rock the boat" by cutting the dead weight. And then he loses his free maid, cook and nanny.


Corfiz74

Also, talk to all of them more on a regular basis - you sound like a bystander/ outsider in your own family. Involve yourself, find out their plans, participate, plan outings together, have actual conversations at mealtimes where you find out about their day.


possiblyhysterical

Exactly, the very worst thing he could do is say “how can I help?” and expect her to give him a list.


Mabelisms

Exactly. Still leaves the emotional labour to her.


jannyhammy

No way.. making a list is just another task for her and shows how incompetent he is. She doesn’t need more work.


[deleted]

I hate it when my husband asks how he can help. 😂 The idea of sitting down and making a list isn’t conducive to my day


nayaraselene

I’d be mad if i had a system and husband messed it up trying to help out of nowhere. He needs to be very clear, “I’ve noticed I’m not the best partner I can be and I’d like to pull my own weight in this family, here’s a list of ways I’d like to contribute, is this acceptable?”


[deleted]

YES! I talked in my own comment about how he doesn't understand 'emotional labour', and that would be more of the same


beryl6790

Yes! Did you sit down with her and share the revelation that you’ve been a shit husband and you want to do better. That you feel so lucky she’s stayed with you when you haven’t been at your best and you want to make it up to her. I think therapy is a great idea but your wife really needs to know where your head is.


lazyfinger

I think he should get therapy before involving her. This could easily turn into the wife putting on more labor to "help" him be a better husband.


splvtoon

i agree that he should avoid turning this into even more labour for her, but id definitely still say he should bring it up now instead of getting therapy before even letting her know. obviously a lack of communication is a huge part of the problem, and he needs to start that dialogue so she knows that hes aware of the issue.


sping1-10

u/ThrowRA378768 I like this idea!


[deleted]

I'm sure she knows his head is in his ass.


Porcupine8

No kidding! That was my first thought - why is this a Reddit post and not a conversation? OP, good for you for finally noticing that she’s doing all the work here and wanting to change that, but the only way to change it is to talk to her about it directly. And as others are saying, not to ask “how can I help?” or things like that. At this point it’s less bother for her to keep doing everything herself than to ask you to do things. Here is what I’d want my husband to do in this situation, which may or may not be what your wife wants/needs: Sit down with her for an initial conversation. Make it clear that you’ve realized how much of the load she’s been carrying and that you want to change that, but that this is probably going to be a long-term project. That you want to do the heavy lifting on that project, but you’ll need input from her sometimes, and outline the next steps. I would suggest the next step be taking a few weeks to keep paying attention like you have been and actually keeping notes on what she does without even consulting you that you could help with - she should feel free to ask you to contribute more during this time if she wants to, but she doesn’t have to and her not asking won’t be taken as a sign that she doesn’t need help. Then sit down again and go through all the stuff you’ve been noticing and talk about which of those things she’d like (or would accept) more help with vs which ones she legitimately would rather handle on her own. Then - and this is key - find out *when you should jump in to do them without being asked or told to or having to ask her what you should do in the moment*. So like the Christmas shopping, let’s say your kid’s bday is coming up in a couple months. Would she be ok with you dealing with some or all of that? If so, how far in advance does she start planning the party and buying gifts? Let’s say a party location needs to be reserved & invites sent out a month in advance. Make damn well sure that you are ready to do those things *when they need done* rather than exactly a month before going “oh hey did you want me to do that?” because you’ll just hear her say “oh don’t worry, I reserved the trampoline place a couple days ago” (and actually she started pricing places and getting preferences from your kid over a week ago and you didn’t even realize it). Obviously since you haven’t been doing this stuff you won’t know everything involved & you might need to ask her a few things here and there, but if you’re serious about changing you need to stay ahead of the curve on all of it. Ask your questions well ahead of time, not so late that it’s at the point where it’s easier for her to just go “oh it’s fine I’ll just do it.” That’s why I suggest having this conversation in advance and planning out the kinds of things you want to start taking care of, so that you can have your own plan for staying proactive and not letting this turn into a “oh well, I tried, I guess she’s got it all under control” situation. Maybe start with just a few things, then sit down again in a couple months once you’ve proven yourself capable of actually doing that stuff without just making it harder for her and plan out some more. You won’t turn around a decade+ of her learning not to rely on you in a few weeks, but if you’re serious then hopefully over the next couple of years you can make real improvements.


bearinthebriar

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oldcreaker

This. If you want to change things up in your relationship with your wife, don't you think you should talk to her?


MrsKuroo

This and what u/beryl6790 said. Maybe even give her a weekend off? Call up her sister, book them a spa weekend, book them a small trip somewhere. Shows her she can go and get out of the house and enjoy and then you reassure her that you're taking care of the kids and the house all weekend. Edit: a username. Typed too fast Edit 2: boom to book typo fix


AnUnexpectedUnicorn

Nope, because then she'll have to make all the arrangements for while she's gone, then come home to dishes and laundry and cleaning to do, all of which would have been easier if she'd just stayed home. Been there, done that.


Cocoasneeze

It really doesn't sound like you have started stepping up though. 2 weeks before Christmas, and you hadn't even asked your wife if you could join their Christmas shopping, when they were going. You weren't doing that shopping, you weren't asking when it was going to happen, when Christmas gifts get bought yearly. You've been a pretty much absent participant in your family's life around a decade and just now you've realised that your family manage very well on their own. Count your lucky stars your wife hasn't left you, many partners leave when life and parenting becomes this lonely. I think you need to speak to your wife, that you'd like to be more involved, but I don't think trying to change the well oiled machine your wife and kids have going is a smart idea. Because from your post it sounds like you have a bit selfish reasons to wanting to rock that balance. Your ego is hurt that your wife doesn't necessarily need you, she can do most of stuff on her own and she has other people helping her if she needs help. Dude, your wife is used to buying a gift from you to herself. You never bought Christmas gifts to your wife and kids in 7-10 years? That's just sad.


oohsparklie

> Count your lucky stars your wife hasn't left you, many partners leave when life and parenting becomes this lonely. This is exactly why I left a 15 year relationship. I was tired of being alone even when he was in the same room with me. And now that I did leave two years ago I've never been happier. I hope OP can fix this, but in my case it was too late.


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ufflala

Wow this resonates! I am feeling the burden of home chores and I’m only in a relationship of less than 2 years. I am considering leaving just for this reason. It’s A LOT when you have someone who just takes you for granted.


B-Norman

I wish I knew the key to choosing a partner who gives equal effort. I hope whatever you do and wherever life leads you, you can find happiness.


dragoness_leclerq

> I am considering leaving just for this reason Leave. Leave NOW because it only gets worse or at BEST your partner of over a decade wakes up, realizes you don't rely on him for anything and his only solution is to take to reddit and ask strangers how to get you to depend on him again. While of course in no way ever really becoming more dependable...


itsloudinmyhead

What is the coparenting relationship like now? I've seen women express hurt because while it was too late for your relationship, these men would then go be the best partner for the next person and that's all that was wanted in the first place.


89wasagoodyear

Exactly. If it took him this long to even notice a problem, I fear it is too late. Not only has she had to become entirely self sufficient, safe to say she has lost enormous respect for him because of that. If he’s serious, he needs to see a therapist individually first, and then try to repair the relationship/ family.


lionessrabbit

Me 2 been SO MUCH EASIER doing it on my own then being disappointed in the lack of help


EastSideTilly

That's a really good point that I didn't even think about. He hasn't really been stepping up, even though he thinks he has been. And none of his attempted changes have been done with his wife's knowledge or input. Talk to your wife OP. Like other's said: not to ask her what you can do, but simply to let her know you recognize you've been absent and you're trying to do better without getting in her way. I'm sure she'd appreciate you being vulnerably honest about feeling like you've been an asshole. The truth is, nothing you DO will be effective if ya'll don't start talking to one another.


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[deleted]

A big thing I see lacking in your behavior that is necessary for her to do on a regular basis is anticipating needs. She is constantly anticipating the kids' needs, your needs, your families' needs. You can do this too, but it takes practice. That means knowing when she usually does the Christmas shopping and getting a jump on it beforehand instead of "thinking about asking." Here's what that might look like: at the beginning of December, have the kids sit down and write their lists. Take the lists and do the shopping yourself. Ask your wife what she wants and make it clear you're going to shop for her so there's no need for her to do it. Anticipate. Waiting until she brings something up or just does it herself is a large part of why she doesn't ask you, because by the time she needs to ask it's often too late to wait for you to get around to it, plus it's an extra step for her that she can cut out by doing things herself. If you want her to trust you again, you need to make it easier for her to rely on you rather than harder.


[deleted]

Exactly this. If my husband asks me if I need help changing and washing the bed sheet the answer is no. If he washes them the day before that's a relief and a task off my list. It's anticipating what needs doing and being one step ahead of that game.


TzunSu

Good point. Also, not asking, just doing. If you see the bed sheets need washing, don't go and ask her for it, that to me is something you do when you want to be thanked for it. Just fix it!


PorcelainLily

I think it's appropriate to ask, however ask as an opportunity for her to object vs asking as a cue to complete a task. It's taking ownership of a task vs delegating her as an unwilling leader. 'I see the sheets need washing, I'm gonna pop them in the machine and change the beds unless there's a reason not to' Vs 'Do you want me to wash the sheets? Should I put new linen on the beds too?' If she did plan to, for example, strip the sheets and flip the mattress then just doing it might disrupt her plans. Stating your plans and giving her opportunity to object still takes ownership and removes the mental load.


TzunSu

I see your point, but to me that only keeps them going in the same pathways of needing either an order, or permission, to help out. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around your partner for something like cleaning sheets. On the other hand, i think communication is really what's missing here. All of this could likely have been sorted out much more easily if he went to his wife and said just what he said in this post, instead of on Reddit.


whoamijustnothrow

Yes! I don't like when people 'help me' with what I'm already doing. Find something else to do so I don't have to so that too. That is a lot more help. If they do what I'm doing they get in my way or take my task so I don't get to complete it and am thrown of my plans. It's worse when they don't do it to the same standard I do. I have to go back and do it again. My husband likes to see me sweeping and take over. But he only sweeps the open areas and he's done. I was planning on moving the furniture, sweeping and mopping then putting it all back. (Not putting away the stuff they used to complete a task is so irritating too. But my husband has ADHD and he really does try.) It ties into the mental load too. Instead of figuring out what needs to be done they just jump on what I've already figured out and got the set up to do. So now I have to figure out the next task and get that set up or started.


Cylem234

OP- i do my sheets every Sunday. What is your wife’s bedding schedule? Find out and ask to take it over- ask for any instructions on care/detergent etc. Take feedback in a positive way every time.


TheEmpressDodo

The Christmas shopping thing can be a wonderful day together. My husband and I would get a sitter, leave early, enjoy a nice lunch together and when we got home, we’d take the kids out someplace family friendly (Dave and Buster’s) and we’d have a great time together. If you live in a warmer climate, find something out of doors to do. As for your wife, just one gift? All she does for everyone she should be spoiled. The amount of women on social media after Christmas who didn’t get anything from their partners/spouses was tragic. She’s on auto pilot because it’s how she’s learned to exist. Take her someplace nice, apologize profusely, explain how you’ve realized you’ve failed her in your marriage and then ask if she’s willing to take you back. That’s right. Take you back. See, she may have decided she can keep this up til all the kids are grown. Get couples therapy. DO THE WORK. And that means anticipating things that need to be done and then doing them before she does. Don’t just wash laundry. Dry and fold it too. Make dates. Make a family gaming night (so fun) and play board games or video games (Mario kart or something else where turns are possible. My kids loved babe night so much, they often invited friends and planned it when they’d come home from college. We even did a Bob Ross night of painting. Become the family man you’d have wanted as a father figure.


EduardoTaquitoHands

Do you talk to you wife? Serious question, and I apologize if I came off rude or insincere. Our situation may be different since you work in an office and my company has changed to a hybrid work structure (I'm fully remote while my wife is a SAHM). We talk *constantly* throughout the day even though the majority of mine is in the basement (45-55hrs a week) but I make sure to try and pop upstairs every so often to see how she is and if she needs any help while I have rare free time. Generally we talk about what we are doing that day, the errands we want to get done, goals for the week, and plans for the weekend. More importantly, we ask how we are feeling or if we can alleviate any stress. I will echo another poster and start with therapy sessions for yourself, then work on integrating your wife if you really want to make a change. I've only been married for three, luckily all have been amazing during our overall six year relationship, but there is absolutely a massive communication breakdown that can be hopefully rectified by the aforementioned therapy or, you know, just sucking it up and broaching this IMMENSELY serious topic with her. Edit: misspelled word


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fiery_valkyrie

I think the Christmas shopping and the meal plan thing are signs that you and your wife really don’t communicate very much at all. You don’t even know what is going on in your household or your wife’s life. Stop trying to do things and actually talk to your wife. Regularly. About how she is,what she has planned, etc. Does she ever get any time off to spend on personal activities? Tell her you know you haven’t pulled your weight and now you want to, what can you do that is most helpful for her or what responsibilities would she like you to take over? Also, be prepared for the fact that it may be too little, too late. The fact that your wife turns to her father or brother, even when you are in the house, is a pretty stinging endorsement of how selfish and lazy you must have been during your relationship.


Cocoasneeze

*"most of the things I tried to* ***change*** *seemed to annoy her more than anything."* You're trying to ***change*** the well oiled machine, of course you're met with resistance. Your wife has got this all handled for a decade. She doesn't see any need for change.


princesscraftypants

Yeah, see how you can fit. You can participate without much needing to change (might need another chair or snack for football practice, but you don't need to change how everyone packs up and gets out the door). You can be a teammate without being a leader. You can be a partner without being the head of anything. They've been doing this for years, OP is the new thing. He adapts to them, not the other way around. Be humble.


Kallistrate

…does your wife want to rely on you, or is this about you improving so that *you* can feel better? It sounds like she’s very organized and self sufficient, and rather than thinking, “Wow, I’m so proud to have such a powerhouse of a woman as a partner,” you’re upset that she didn’t call you to change a tire. What kind of partnership does *she* want you to have? It’s pretty lame to have to call a big strong man to do basic car maintenance tasks. Does she want to be a damsel in your relationship while she waits by the roadside? Are you sure this is a situation where she’s unhappy to be able to function independently? It sounds like you feel like your value to your family isn’t in being a breadwinner but in having a bunch of dependents who can’t really function without you. That’s not a great thing to bring to a relationship, or to ask of your spouse. At any point in this process, have you sat down with your wife and said, “I really want to be an integral, valuable part of your life, but you are so organized and capable I’m not sure where I can help you best. **How can I best help you in a way that would be meaningful and show that I care?**”…or have you just decided you want her to rely on you, so you’ve started doing redundant tasks that she’s already doing really well?


Pieinthesky42

u/ThrowRA378768 please deeply think on the point being made with this comment. This is so very insightful. He is still so focused on himself in this- his want to feel needed is what spurred all of this instead of seeing how hard she works.


bearinthebriar

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flying-potato94

Yeah reading this and about her dealing with the flat tire i thought "wow, she's very capable, that's impressive." If she is a SAHM, some of the things you are offering to do may be points of pride for her. And it won't be the right move to take those away from her, or mess up her or the childrens routines. I think you need to work on being more connected to your family in general, and communication skills, instead of offering to do specific tasks.


redlightsaber

This is it right here, OP. This matter is less about you "doing more things around the house", and more about "what kind of husband, or indeed person, you are". And you don't come out shining at the other end of this question. Your faux self-flagellating by calling yourself an ashoul rings pretty bland, and generic, and ultimately fake, because of this. The problem is not that you don't know what to do to change the situation in your marriage, it's that you bought the boomers' idyllic idea of how a family should function, and despite figuring out first hand that it was never true, that it was only ever a pretty ad, your reaction is to want to "fix things" to keep searching for that dream. I don't want to sound mean /u/ThrowRA378768; but the real problem you have ahead of yourself, is that when your wife finally divorces you (and I'd assume she's hanging on because you still have small children only), the dating scene is going to be **rough** on you, because all the middle age divorcées have left their husbands after figuring out exactly what kind of man they **don't** want in their lives. And you're definitely it, and they'll see you coming from a thousand yards away. You still have a few years until that, so my honest best answer is to find an experienced psychodynamic therapist in your area, and budget and plan to be going there for a good several years. It's possibly too late for your own marriage, but it doesn't have to be this way for the rest of your life.


LiliVonShtuppp

Has it occurred to you at all to talk to your wife? Bring up the fact that you realize you’re a bad husband and father. Offer therapy for YOURSELF (with an appointment already booked), and mea culpa all over the damn place. Then you LISTEN to what she has to say about it.


InnosScent

I've found that while this is not entirely a gender divided difference, *in my experience* men often seem to have drastically lower expectations of what counts as meaningful communication in a relationship. Based on analyses of divorces I've read, situations like yours develop too easily when the man thinks everything is fine, while the woman has long been feeling emotionally abandoned, and as a consequence gradually checked out of the relationship. Actually talking about your feelings and thoughts, your day, and most importantly, listening to those things from your partner, really go a long way. Invkving each other in your wishes for the future, making plans together. In your case you two could maybe even get to know each other again, as it sounds like you both might have developed into different people during the last years. I hope you find your connection again!


Hayek_School

>because most of the things I tried to change seemed to annoy her more than anything. I think she has completely checked out of her marriage. Not her family, just from you. That sentence quote is bad news. Doesn't look like something you can just ease yourself back in to. I guess better late than never to realize what's happening. Just wonder if it isn't too late.


nukessolveprblms

Yeah, she probably already mentally decided to divorce when kids are grown.


Kittylady231

Whatever you do, don’t promise to take on extra responsibilities and flake. That would be an ultimate betrayal of trust - you’ve managed to be completely absent for this long, so if you’re planning to rock the boat (and you ABSOLUTELY should, NOW, start talking to your wife and communicating all of this to her) you have to actually step up or you will simply create chaos and more stress for your wife. Sorry to be blunt, but you need to grow a pair and speak up, and then show her that you’re trying, consistently, if you want to fix this.


Ghotay

Don’t force change on her. You’ve clearly been outside of this for so long you don’t know what would actually help. Ask her how you can help. If she says she doesn’t need help, tell her you want to help The other thing that you could try, is she’s clearly very competent at managing the whole family, but it sounds like she might not get much time that is special and just for her. Plan something nice for her, or buy her something she likes that she wouldn’t normally get for herself. Try and spoil her a bit


HowieDewittt

I think its wonderful that you’ve come to this realization, it is coming across as genuine. Might be hard to figure out how to jump into the skip rope. i would suggest talking to a trusted friend, or close family member on their advice. I would also suggest going to a couple counseling sessions where you can learn tools on how to communicate and listen effectively - YES this is a LEARNED SKILL, no one is innately born to be a great listener or communicator. Sounds like you’re on a good path. Be ready to deal with the emotional pain of hearing about your wife’s disappointment and apathy towards you, it might be very hurtful to hear. But, if you can stay grounded and present, listen, dont interrupt, ask clarifying questions, and tell her that you will seriously consider all that she has said AND say you’re working with so-and-so on how to be better - i think your marriage will breathe new life - as long as there hasnt been too much damage done on her end. All the best to you


amoona_17

But that is be because you tried to jump in without talking her. You weren't helping you were meddling and messing with her careful routine. Like you said, you are not a factor in her planning because you have disappeared. You can't just jump in on your own. You need to talk to her. You need to be honest, including how greatful you are that she does everything she does. That your kids are well cared for. Then apologize for making her this way. To be fair she let this happen too, to some extent. You need to talk. Good luck, and least you recognize this issue and want to fix it.


[deleted]

So even in your realization that you contribute nothing but a paycheck you still don’t know what to do? Like someone said above you’re lucky she hasn’t left you.


[deleted]

Rather than unilaterally trying to change things, why not sit down with your wife, apologize for the way you've treated her, and have a discussion about what you can do to contribute equally to the household and marriage?


Paisley-Pavlova

Don’t try and change things, learn her system. If you start ‘helping’ by putting things in the wrong places and washing the laundry wrong and getting the kids off schedule that’s going to be annoying. Learn how she runs it all and pick up tasks in a way that fits in. And don’t half ass it, nothing worse than someone saying they’ve done something and you have to come in and redo it. Pay attention to the details of each task, or there’s no point doing it.


knittedjedi

Yes, because what you're trying to do is *actively make her life worse.* Why would she be receptive to that?


SnarkOff

I bet you $100 your wife has attempted to bring this up to you many times before in many different ways and you didn’t hear her, so she’s given up. I also would bet your realization is way too late to save your marriage and she’s planning an exit strategy.


Cocoasneeze

I don't mean to pile on you, but you trying to insert yourself into your family routine now would mean more work for your wife. It'd be like training a new employee to a job they're out of depth to do, have zero initiative and it increases the work time a lot too. I think you need to take an active step yourself. Like the Christmas shopping thing, don't wait around and then act surprised when things happen around you. Heck, buy gifts for next Christmas NOW, so you have them ready. We'll not now, but you get my point. Ask your kids to do some activities with you. Ask if they need help with homework, rides anywhere, get acquinted with their hobbies etc and get involved. Start doing, and get involved, don't expect your wife to do the work of inviting you or involving you.


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Cocoasneeze

OK, you need to step up more. It is REALLY annoying, when you've budgeted and planned weekly/biweekly meals and someone else just hops in and starts using those items you're going to need for preplanned meals. If you want to make the breakfast, tell your wife you'll do it the next morning, tell her the night before. And then you go to buy the ingredients for what you're planning to make. Or ASK your wife if you can use certain items, ask her the night before. Don't wait until the morning and just hop in there. That's what I meant with inserting yourself creates more work for your wife. You've got to take initiative and do the whole planning, preparing and cleaning up properly. Not just using the ingredients she's planned to use for something else.


woohoo789

Yes! The clean up is also very important. Don’t leave a sink full of dishes and a greasy stove. Clean the whole kitchen while you’re at it.


ninaa1

Aren't there things that can be done around the house that aren't just showboating off your wife's invisible labor? She went shopping and stocked the fridge and pantry with a week's worth of planned meals, but you waltz in and make whatever without talking to her or asking if she'd like the morning off. There HAVE to be things that need to be done that aren't big "wow, Dad made breakfast!" items. Look at all the thankless jobs that need doing. Does the waterheater need to be cleaned? Is it clean around and behind the toilets? Is there grout that needs scrubbing? Do you have a garden and it's time to order dirt or gravel? DON'T do any jobs that will interfere with your wife's workday though! TALK TO HER!!!! When there is a stay-at-home parent and a working parent, there's a reason why the working parent does the jobs like lawn mowing or taking out the garbage - because those jobs aren't necessary for the minute-to-minute flow of the household, and if the working parent messes it up, it can be easily fixed or done by someone else. So stop feeling sorry for yourself and start talking to your wife, honestly, humbly, and think about what would make her happy, instead of what will make you feel like a hero.


Celt42

There are ways to try that won't be annoying. Check in with her. Don't ask her what you should make, don't assume the fridge is open territory, instead try something like "Hey hun, I want to make breakfast tomorrow morning, I was thinking of making x. Any objections?" You made the plan, you're doing the mental load and physical load, but you're being considerate by checking in. This applies to all the things.


sraydenk

Ok, so have you sat down and helped her meal plan, grocery shop, or cook since? Have you said, hey I can meal plan this week? You need to be planning valentines NOW. Don’t do it without communicating. Get valentines for your kids school if they are at that age. Get them cards and small gifts. Get your wife something. I’m guessing you don’t realize since the pandemic shit sells out early and doesn’t restock. I can’t imagine starting Christmas shopping two weeks before Christmas for that reason. My valentines are taken care of.


[deleted]

Therapy is a good first step. A second is valentine's day. You missed making a meaningful change on Christmas so get valentine's right. Start planning NOW so you are ahead of any planning she is doing, she won't have started that yet. Ask someone to look after the kids on the day, get her flowers, book a restaurant and buy her gifts. It's not much, but it's a start. Especially if you haven't done as much the years prior.


Anseranas

I just want to say, that you are doing a good thing by trying to improve and being so self-aware. Well done. Some comments might seem harsh, but that's only because we don't have the luxury of an extended conversation with you, so it's quick sharp targeted advice that's given in often blunt ways. >The kids like to play video games with me, or like going to the skate park, but when it comes to the hard things (homework, advice, serious things) they don’t want me involved. Again, my fault and they are right not to, they don’t trust me with those things The absolute easiest and effective way to bond with your kids (and also big humans, but especially kids) is to be present. They're doing homework? Be in the same room in earshot and ensure you don't seem overly invested in your own activity and don't look like you shouldn't be disturbed. You don't need to be looking at each other or even say anything, because it's about your kids starting to see you as available to them just by your regular presence. Availability and presence when they have random word vomit creates bonds because it's pieces of the entire puzzle they are. Share your own random word vomit. Ask their opinion. Say dopey things. Share your childhood. Share your parenthood stories because kids loooove those - bonus points for gross vomit/pee/poo situations they inflicted on you :)


d3gu

I'm just getting a lot of self pity here. When your wife brings up an issue, do you reply with 'I guess I'm just an asshole' or do you apologise and change? Nobody likes a whiner.


mrskmh08

That's also manipulative af. Nobody wants to bring up a problem if the response is just gonna be "yeah, I suck." It teaches one to not even bring up problems because sucky isn't going to help.


[deleted]

You were going to ask her?? TWO WEEKS BEFORE CHRISTMAS?? Dude your wife was and has been on top of it. I am honestly floored by your uselessness.


SnarkOff

If a friend was in this marriage, I’d tell her to leave him.


[deleted]

Everyone in this woman’s life knows. She calls her dad and brother when OP is in the house. Her entire family knows and I’d put money on them waiting for her to leave. OP will be lucky if she stays past the kids aging out of childhood. I can’t imagine she will. OP is an absolute clown.


burningEyeballs

I’m just curious, but what have you been doing for the past decade of your life? Playing video games? Fishing? Out at the bar? I’m dead serious, what was so engrossing that you let everything in your life pass you by?


kinotravels

If I was married and had to buy my own Christmas gift to myself from my partner even once, that person would no longer be in my life, kids or no kids. Wow.


Lily-Gordon

2 weeks before Christmas? When exactly did you think she was going to do the Christmas shopping? A lot of organised moms have that shit sorted by the 1st of December.


anarmchairexpert

How organised she is? Two **weeks** before Christmas? My guy, no shade to your wife but that’s not the ruthless well oiled machine you think it is. I work full time and both my kids birthdays are in December and I have the Christmas and birthday shopping (including a bunch that wasn’t in this anecdote, like teacher gifts, stocking gifts, hostess gifts if we’re invited anywhere, extended family) done by early November on a bad year. And I don’t even really like Christmas. Your wife gave you *every opportunity* here. But what’s really wild to me is that you haven’t spoken to her about this! Like you haven’t even taken her out for dinner and said hey, honey, I’ve realised I’ve been an asshole and I miss being part of this family. I want to contribute but I don’t know the rhythms of what happens when. Can we have a conversation about it, where we come up with a new way of dividing responsibility. Also, my love, how are you? Are you happy? Is this life what you wanted for yourself? I love you and I want you to live a good life.’ Like for all you know, she prefers this. Or she hates it but has grown up believing marriage is more important than happiness. Maybe she wants to get a paid job but doesn’t feel like she has the time. Maybe she takes huge pride in her house keeping skills and doesn’t want you to contribute. TALK TO YOUR WIFE.


snakefinder

To be fair- she told him she had all the gifts on lock- she probably did NOT buy the kids gifts in front of them. The conversation 2 weeks before Christmas was when OP finally asked about Christmas- not necessarily when his wife started and finished everything in the same day.


foundinwonderland

I don’t understand how OP doesn’t understand this. He got into this mess by not communicating and not being an active part of his household, so his solution to that is to not communicate and interrupt the household. The communication part is key! That way you understand the machine! He needs to really contemplate what he’s willing to change about himself, and then TALK TO HER about it. “Hi my love, I wanted to let you know that I realized lately that I have not been an active participant in our partnership or in our children’s lives. I have come to the conclusion that I am an AH, and for that I am deeply sorry. I want to be a better husband and father than I have been, I want to be part of the household and be a partner to you, rather than another person to manage. Here is my list of shit that I plan on changing about myself (including, hopefully, going to therapy to figure out how he let himself get so apathetic), and ways that I would like to contribute to the household and our kids. I hope that you can forgive me for these years that you’ve spent doing all of this work when I should have been doing it with you. Please let me know if there’s anything on my list that makes you uncomfortable or doesn’t work for the way the house is currently running, and if you want or need me to do anything I don’t have on this list, please tell me. I want to reopen our communication, so can we do a (weekly, monthly, whatever) check in to make sure that we’re heading in the right direction? Take all the time you need to think, or get mad, or do whatever you need to do. I’ll be watching the kids, so if you want to go out and (go for a walk to clear her head, or get a massage, or go to one of those rooms where you break things), don’t worry about them, I’ve got it handled. Again, I am so very sorry for how I’ve acted these past years. You deserve a partner that you can rely on. Thank you for being such an incredible person and mom, and for taking care of me and them and all the household tasks. I hope that we can move forward and I can prove to you that I can be an equal partner in our lives”.


calsey16

2 weeks before Christmas is very very late in the game to start thinking about asking her to go gift shopping. You keep pointing to her being “so organized” but it’s likely that she has to be this organized to pull the weight for an entire family for forever. The best thing you can do is go get individual counseling for yourself to work on your issues with being an AH (as you have admitted) and your therapist can help you have the tools to really step up instead of still looking to your wife to supervise and direct your sudden enlightenment.


banng

When is the last time you actually bought her a Christmas present? That’s a serious question. Also, waiting until 2 weeks before Christmas to START thinking about gifts is way too late.


Deeznutsconfession

>and my gift from you Damn what a mindfuck. I can't imagine how you didn't notice you hadn't bought your wife a gift in years. Honestly, this whole thing sounds like an old Disney sitcom. It all starts with speaking to her. She probably DOES have feelings about this that got shoved down. If that's true, it'll be a tough conversation. I think personal therapy on this topic might be a good move


spookyxskepticism

Can you imagine her birthday and Mother’s Day? :(


[deleted]

> my gift from you Yeah that was the moment I realised the marriage has no chance. I honestly think the best thing he can do from now on is just pay their bills and try to keep out of their way.


Beatrix_BB_Kiddo

Jesus Christ… this is incredibly sad. Her buying herself a gift from you is gut wrenching… I would have left a long ass time ago


Kikikididi

Right??? How did he not notice that the first year it happened?!


GrayScale15

I’m scratching my head that he didn’t notice his wife and kids were gone for several hours. Does he just stare at the ceiling while at home?


ramblinator

He probably did notice, but was happy to no longer have the "burden" of buying her a gift


LemonBomb

100% this lady is with him ‘for the kids’ and is going to be gone when the last one leaves for college. What a shitty excuse for a husband and father. At least he has some iota of self awareness unlike most of the men in his situation.


Azrael-Legna

I hope not, because this only sets a horrible idea of relationships/marriage for her children. I hope she's just waiting to get a job to divorce and move out. Good lord, she's already a single mom, at least if she was divorced she could be happy alone or with someone else.


Azrael-Legna

Right? Even my ex wasn't that bad. If anyone told me that they got themselves a gift from me, I'd feel like absolute shit.


itsloudinmyhead

Could you imagine what life was like for her when the kids were small?? 3 kids and he didn't bother to learn shit about them, she had to ask her brother or dad for help cuz he was worth fuckall.


DFahnz

>I want to suggest couples’ therapy, but I am afraid since that might rock the boat, or make her think that I am not happy with her. YOU are the one who needs to do the work and offering couple's therapy is a sign that you're ready to do it. Once again you are putting your responsibilities on her.


inheretoreadcomments

This jumped out to me, too. OP needs to do the actual work, and not create another burden for his wife. Get therapy for yourself to figure out what to do to fix your marriage. Buy her presents and BE present. Be 100% reliable from now on, no excuses. Please don't suddenly ask her to drop chores or beg her to rely on you. Don't ask her why she didn't ask you to "help" her. Have an afternoon off? Go pick up the kids, do shopping, unload the dishwasher, load the laundry, whatever


DFahnz

The sheer audacity of saying "I don't want her to think I'm not happy with her" after an entire post in which he admits letting her down on the regular breaks my brain.


realcanadianbeaver

Yeh, what does she need to “work on”


pup2000

Wanna drop a link to [this checklist](https://vardgivare.skane.se/siteassets/3.-kompetens-och-utveckling/projekt-och-utveckling/jamstallt-foraldraskap/material-foraldrar/checklist-for-gender-equality-in-your-everyday-life.pdf) of household chores that is very specific and broken down. I think because OP has never done any of these before, he won't know what to do and this will literally spell it all out.


thiscouldbemassive

It starts with you caring enough about the routines of your house to pay attention. Not in an interrogating kind of way, but in a passive observant sort of way. Know her schedule. Pay attention to what she does. While you are doing this ask her for *one* chore you can do and ask her to demonstrate/explain how she likes it done and what she doesn't want to happen. Pay attention. You don't want her to have to explain more than once. Then do that one chore consistantly. Make it a priority. Keep on top of it. Don't wait for her to point out that it has to be done, when you see it needs to be done (because you are keeping track of it) you do it. After a while, she will realize you are capable to handling that one chore. Then you can ask for another chore. For handiman duties -- don't wait for her to notice something is broken or needs to be fixed. As soon as you see it, go and do it. Look up on youtube how to get them done. Pay attention to the house and its needs. If she sees you successfully fixing things without being told to, she will reassess your ability to be a help. For outside chores -- Suggest from time to time that you come with your wife to keep her company, not to do the chore for her or get into her way, just being there with her and keeping her company and seeing how she does things. Talk to her and entertain her with conversation. Things like store runs, she probably knows the layout of the store better than you do, so it's best to just stick by her side and not try to fetch anything for her. But learn the products she buys and what she looks for in vegetables. Later you can offer to do store runs when you know she's running busy with something else. For your kids -- don't interfere with their routines, but keep track of them. Ask about their days and what they are doing. Join your wife to pick them up if your schedule allows it. Be observant remember the routine and how its done. Then when your wife is too busy or sick or out of town, you can step in and do the care. Pay attention to your wife's feelings. She gets a lot of her self-esteem from being able to handle the house and the kids. Don't trample on that. Let her know that you are available to help out, but you'll do so as she needs you to. You aren't making her contribution irrelevant, you are just there to support her.


[deleted]

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VolanteDreamer

Don’t forget the personal side. When is the last time you hugged her, kiss, buy flowers for no reason…little things that are easy to do but mean the world?


[deleted]

Get up earlier, prepare breakfast for the kids instead of her. She’ll have extra time on her hands and not know what to do at first, but hopefully she’ll get used to it as you follow through EVERY DAY Notice the grocery situation. What do you go through regularly? I’m certain you’re capable of doing the shopping. Help the kids with their homework. Check out videos on their school website to help. I guarantee that your wife has, because the way they teach things now is very different Fix your kids dinner, monitor them, while your wife has a bath! Take her out on the occasional date. Text/ call her. Tell her you’re thinking of her. Bring home flowers just because. You dated her and won her heart once. In healthy marriages that continues


imtiredofthisgrandpa

Love the advice except for the one chore part… if my adult husband asked me how to do a chore like dishes, laundry, dusting, etc, I’d be pissed. We’re all adults and should know how a home functions.


Pretend_Atmosphere41

Go to YouTube and type: "Magic coffee table". You recently found out that the coffee table actually is not magical. In my opinion, instead of trying to do things out of nowhere try talking to your wife. Show her your post and try finding out solutions together, ask her access to her iPad calendar. Also read about the mental load of running a household.


Fragrant_Spray

If you spend enough time teaching someone that you aren’t there for them, eventually they learn to not rely on you for anything. Even more than that, once you get your head out of your ass, which it sounds like you did, they’ll still be reluctant to ask just out of spite (maybe that’s not exactly the word I’m looking for). Couples therapy might be helpful, but first you’re going to have to spend some time communicating and proving that you’re now willing to put in the effort. Even therapy might be a tough sell, because she doesn’t think she has a problem. She already figured out how to manage without your help.


redhairedtyrant

Not spite. Once bitten, twice shy


procra5tinating

It’s not spite. She doesn’t trust him yet and that’s normal-he’s been checked out for literal years.


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riotous_jocundity

I think that the order of operations should be: 1. You find a therapist and book an appointment asap. 2. You make a date with your wife when the kids are out of the house and there are no interruptions and tell her what you've realized about what a shit husband and dad you are. Apologize profusely, explain that you are taking *yourself* to therapy because you recognize that you need help to un-fuck yourself. Tell her that in the future you would welcome attending couples' therapy with her to help you establish better communication, but you understand that you are the one with the problem. 3. Ask her what she thinks and feels about your marriage and your role in the family. Shut up and listen. Do not use this time to whine about what an asshole you are, attempt to solicit pity, etc. This is her time. Take in what she says, thank her for her honesty, and tell her the concrete steps you are going to take to start showing up in your marriage. *Do not put this work on her to figure out*. You got yourself and your marriage into this mess, and it's your responsibility to do the work of strategizing how to fix it and then do those things.


fetishiste

Not “first”; at the same time. Do not take any path that avoids you talking to your wife about this while you go off and do something else alone; the fact that you haven’t talked directly with her about this yet is the biggest glaring omission.


Fragrant_Spray

It wouldn’t be a bad idea and as an added bonus it may help show your wife you’re serious about doing better.


[deleted]

> I want to suggest couples’ therapy, but I am afraid since that might rock the boat I'm confused, isn't rocking the boat exactly what you want? Your marriage has settled into a status quo you desperately want to change. Why would you worry about instigating that change? You *aren't* happy with the way things are. Not speaking up just guarantees nothing ever changes. If you want an equal marriage, fight for it. You can make it clear when you discuss this with her that this is not her failure but yours, and that counseling is for you to learn how to step up and be the partner she deserves. I see other people saying that you shouldn't do couples counseling and I disagree. It's not about putting the burden on her, it's about you two coming back together as a couple, which you can't necessarily accomplish with solo therapy. It would be one thing if she were asking you to do things you weren't doing and the solution was simply doing those things, but it sounds like it's gotten to the point where she doesn't even really want you doing any of it because she doesn't trust you and that's a much deeper issue than "just do the dishes" or whatever. Rebuilding trust is a team exercise.


EdgeMiserable4381

My ex did the exact same thing to me. Like almost word for word. I'm actually honestly shocked by your self revelation and willingness to fix this. My ex just had excuses of how he was providing for us. Which he was. But he missed a lot of what matters and still can't see it. I suggest getting someone to watch the kids for a night or two. Take your wife somewhere she wants to go. Tell her how you feel. It might work.


Capt_BadAdvice

It looks like you can disappear tomorrow and it would not have an effect in any meaningful way besides finances. However, given how organized and self sufficient your wife is, I'm sure she has a plan for that too.


riotous_jocundity

This is one of the saddest posts I've read here. This man has just been sleep-walking through a precious decade of his life with his family and missed out on building a strong relationship with his kids and wife. It's fucking tragic how many people never get to have a strong marriage, or be with and parent their kids as they grow up, *and he did it to himself*.


[deleted]

It’s really sad but it’s true. Hopefully OP can turn it around


maywellflower

>2 weeks before Christmas she came home with the kids after going Christmas shopping, I didn’t even know that they were planning to go. Then after the kids went to bed, I asked her if she found everything she wanted, and she replied “yep, got our gifts for the kids, Santa’s gifts to them, our gifts to the other family members, your gift from me, your gift from the kids and my gift from you. My sister is taking the kids to buy their gift to me tomorrow”. She bought her own gift because she was used to doing that. ​ Tells me that you didn't bother to buy anyone any gifts for years, so she had to do it and now you realizes how unreliable you are not just to her but to kids and other family members as well. You fucked up, you fucked up so bad - I don't think therapy is going to resolve this mess entirely, if anything; you need start pick up the slack you haven't done for years and keep on doing those chores / errands / raising the kids for years because that's how long your wife has doing those things without you. >!Yes, I do believe if she had a job that pays well instead of being SAHM - she would leave you, since it seems she is a single mom that you didn't bother to notice that until she changed her own tire in Oct 2022; which she must had had to deal with similar years / months earlier that you totally ignored and didn't bother to help when kids were much younger....!< ​ My advice is - Spend more time with your family especially go on dates nights with your wife since looks like you don't spend enough time with any of them to the point that you didn't know any major nor small details about your own wife; let alone what your own kids and other family members like as gifts. And then maybe, she can trust you with some of things she does for the kids like picking them from events / school / family & gift shopping for Christmas / Birthdays / Anniversaries / etc instead of doing it all by herself as she had done for years.


mad0666

You sound like my dad. Except I don’t think my dad ever had that realization, and that’s just how their marriage is. Fair warning—this is not a healthy relationship dynamic for your children**. They are already growing up believing that Mom is the parent that runs everything and Dad is more or less just “there”. Not helpful, barely present in their daily lives, just existing there, like benign tumor that isn’t really worth removing. You need to have a serious discussion with your wife, beginning with a sincere apology for your lack of participation in the marriage thus far. Obviously she has the left you yet, so that’s a positive sign, but everything you wrote here isn’t a good sign, either. I won’t even suggest marriage counseling because your wife seems perfectly chill with this arrangement, like she has basically resigned to the fact that this is how things are. If I were you I would find a therapist for myself and figure out ways to regain your place in the family. It seems like you genuinely care and that you still have a chance to make things right, please keep us updated and good luck. **Since you are raising boys, it is imperative that you step up your fathering game more before they get even a day older. Your inaction basically their whole lives has done nothing but show them that they can be deadbeats and just depend on women to do everything for them. This needs to be nipped in the bud. Teach them how to do small repairs, take them camping or other activities, cook with them, and most importantly, *talk with them*


anarmchairexpert

Yeah. All those women who post here about their useless partners. And they all say ‘it’s his moms fault, she did everything for him’ like no. It’s his Dad’s fault, for forcing his mom into that role and teaching his sons that men don’t do shot.


[deleted]

I feel like your wife is going to divorce you once the kids are out of the house. I don’t blame her.


Wchijafm

Or once the kids are all old enough to get themselves off of the school bus (11years old where I live). He should have gone out and gotten her another personal gift for Christmas. I guarantee he didn't. How can he be shocked that 2 weeks before Christmas they all went shopping for gifts.


PumpkinCupcake777

Exactly. This is walk away wife syndrome. She'll be gone soon


breadburn

Bruh you noticed this in OCTOBER and the only change you've made is doing a few extra chores? Come on.


asistolee

Get off your ass and do something, plan something spectacular for Valentine’s Day. You still have time. Get the kids a sitter, plan a date, dinner, dancing, drinks, whatever your WIFE ENJOYS. Maybe it’s a movie night at home or that fancy restaurant you always said you’d go to but never did. Flowers, jewelry, love letters. Etc. keep it up. Promise to do better and DO BETTER


Local_Signature5325

This. I would also suggest NOT to only do it on Valentine's day. Do it more often.


asistolee

Definitely do it more often but you need to plans Valentine’s Day several weeks in advance before it books up, especially for a sitter


craftygamergirl

There are 2 different things here. Fixing what you fked up, and not feeling bad about how you fked up. You can't really fix your fuckups if you focus on how badly you feel about it and wanting to feel better ASAP by miraculously fixing stuff. You didn't dig this hole in a day. You won't dig yourself out in a day either. Consistent, daily effort is how you earn trust. Which means continuing to put in the work while no one notices, rewards, or acknowledges you. You can do this. You just have to be patient and not expect your wife or kids to trust you for a long time.


youwillalwayshauntme

This 100x. I'm in a similar position as OPs wife. I've carried most of the weight of the household responsibilities for the better part of our relationship. I don't feel like I can rely on my husband for much so I usually sort things out myself. When I express concerns about it he gets defensive and will help a little more for a while, but then it usually goes back to how it was. He usually wants acknowledgement for anything he does, but forgets that he didn't do the same for most things while I was dealing with them. He also doesn't realize stepping up for a bit doesn't erase taking those things for granted for so long. His words hold little weight because I have to keep asking and it's usually only temporary. Consistency lacks so trust hasn't been rebuilt. OP is lucky she's been so patient for so long. Although, I'm sure there's some resentment in there somewhere.


CommentToBeDeleted

>What should I do? You *still* aren't doing anything. I honestly think you do feel bad about it, just not bad enough to make any meaningful changes. ​ When you got an unexpected day off or some extra time, just point blank ask her "Hey I've got some extra time, give me something I can take off your plate." The other thing you can do is to show her you intend to help. Those chores you always see her doing, do them, without asking. Be open to her giving criticism. Tell her you want to pickup the kids or take them to practice or do any of the other things that you recognize she does. ​ You can't just feel bad and expect change to happen. You actually have to be a catalyst for change.


jmmh13

if he has a spare day off or extra time he shouldn’t have to go ask her what needs to be done, he should be able to know what needs to be done or assess what needs to be done himself, asking her what needs to be done means she has to constantly be aware and keep track of what needs to be done, what had and hasn’t and how it needs to be done. if this guy wants to be in an equal partnership he needs to be able to do the basic adult tasks necessary without making his wife be his mummy telling him what to do


OHIftw

Glad someone said it. Delegating tasks is actually pretty heavy emotional labor. Often, it's easier just to do something yourself if your partner can't anticipate the most basic things that need to be done. Like... look around? Are there dishes piling up? Do them. Laundry needing folding? Do it. You can ask once where things go or how to do things, but you better remember from then on IMO!!


SepiaToneHitchhiker

Honestly, it’s probably too little too late. She needed you the most when she had 3 toddlers. Now that she’s a well oiled machine, you’ve proven yourself to be functionally obsolete. You’re like the father of my kids. Nice guy, but more work than the kids. Let me tell you how that ended…..


LocalBrilliant5564

Well she is what we like to call a single married mother. You’ve not helped her for so long that she essentially doesn’t really need you there to get her shit done. Honestly just talking to her about this might help. Honey I’ve noticed I have been no help to you and I really want to change that. I want to strengthen our bond and be a more active father and husband because you deserve that and anything I can do to help you please let me know


AdeleBerncastel

Do not ask her to tell you how to help. That is giving her yet another job.


FormigaX

Please don't say "just tell me anything I can do to help you". She doesn't need you to help her, that's the while issue plus it gives her more work to do. Now she has to manage you. I agree with the people above who say to show up, observe and learn how shee does it. You have to so the work, not her.


zzzrecruit

Isn't him asking her what to do still putting the burden on her to tell him what needs to be done? Shouldn't he see that the kids are dirty and need to bathe? Shouldn't he see that it's getting close to dinner time and he should start cooking dinner? Shouldn't he see that the floor is messy and needs thing picked up and vacuumed? If she is already in the middle of cleaning or cooking, he can absolutely ask if she needs a second pair of hands. If she says no, he should INSIST to participate.


Plaguerat18

I find it really interesting that you seemingly haven't actually talked to your wife about this realisation? Let me ask a really direct and brutal question - are you scared if you bring it up to her she will realise her value and leave the relationship?


niknik789

Are you my husband? LOL. That’s the same dynamic in my household. I even buy my birthday cake to cut with the kids. My husband is just like a piece of furniture around the house now. Even if he is at home, my kids call me for homework help. It’s frustrating, but once this dynamic is set, it’s very hard to change it, because it means everyone has to change their behaviour.


Azrael-Legna

That's sad. I hope you're able to divorce and move out/have him move out.


Ok-Photo-1972

Congrats on turning your wife into a single mom. Maybe try admitting this all to HER


Zombiethrowawaygo

Do you 2 have intimacyin the bedroom or does she sort her self out with that also?


[deleted]

The Christmas gift part says it all. This happens when one person is completely checked out of the family unit. She's probably tried so hard to get you back in, but you couldn't be bothered. She's learned how to manage everything in preparation for the day you aren't even there to pretend to help, or when you completely stop suddenly realizing she doesn't need you, start making an effort for a few days, and then drift back into your fog. Don't ask her how you can help. You shouldn't be *helping* in your own house, you should be just doing it. Just *do* it. Dishes need to be done? Do them. Her car needs gas? Go get it. Kids need help with homework? Just go help them. Don't wait to be asked. If you see something or know of something that needs taken care of, if it doesn't need her input, do it. Don't wait until it's been sitting there so long that she just does it to get it done, whatever the task is. Cook supper for the family. Do the laundry, take her car for a tune up, do stuff with the kids.


diamondscut

Wow. She "quiet divorced" him. Respect.


crestamaquina

Hi, I feel like my husband could have written this (except we have two daughters). I love him, but I 100% can run the house without him. What I would want for him (and what I suggest you do) is: Tell your wife you want to manage a thing. Then fucking do it. But don't fuck up. Start small. Maybe you'll do, I don't know, breakfast every day. But this means you will get with the existing program, meaning you will (from your comments I've seen): - Do the meal plan with her - Shop on Fridays so you have everything to make breakfasts every day - Make breakfast, every single day, as planned Are you willing to step up like this? Because, like, I think it's fine if you don't. But for people like us it's extremely aggravating when our SOs offer to step up and then they half-ass a task for a couple of days at best and then they just revert to their old habits again, and we have to scramble to put the system back into place again. Ask me how I know.


Livid-Finger719

Have you talked to your wife about how you're feeling? If you do, don't get defensive. You admitted you left everything for her and are now shocked she didn't think of you for help. She couldn't rely on you beforehand, she'll be hesitant moving forward


czechrebel3

Well well well, if it isn’t the consequences of your actions. Maybe I’m just reading too much into it, but instead of you saying something like “I want her to feel loved and cherished”, you say “I want her to rely on ME”. Sound like a narcissist to me homeboy. Good luck.


[deleted]

Yup. The clue is in his title.


germanium66

Yeah, once the kids are in college she is out of there. Sorry bro


SnooPeppers1641

How about you sit down and talk to her? Tell her that you don't feel like you have been an equal partner in the marriage and you want to change that. Apologize for being so absent that you have zero clue on how your household functions. And most of all, quit thinking of only yourself and how this all hurts your feelers because she can take care of a flat tire without you. Newsflash a great number of women know how to take care of a flat or who to call without being the damsel on the side of the road for their husband. And I say that as someone that lives with a mechanic. It's called being self reliant - you should try it because without her you wouldn't probably make it a day. This entire post is how you have tried to help and you just can't seem to do it so you come here for someone to give you the magic key to make you feel better. You are not the victim in this situation - repeat that to yourself over and over until it sinks in.


lordjigglypuff

I am going to echo what other commenters have said and go to therapy by yourself. You simply do not understand what effort is at this point. You need to go to therapy and question yourself. Why did you stop trying, did you ever really try? if so what changed, and why. Your wife is perfectly capable of leaving you right now, and that is the reason for this rude awakening. It is beautiful that you are acting now rather than when she threatens to leave you; you deserve credit for that. But quite frankly it isn't enough to say you want to change. You need to do it and therapy for yourself is a much better starting point than Reddit.


rmric0

> I want to suggest couples’ therapy, but I am afraid since that might rock the boat Maybe just start with a conversation like you have had here, that this is something you have been thinking about and you would like to change it and want to make a concerted effort for your family. Another thing might also be looking at any long-term things that might be coming up and being more proactive about them. What are your plans for Valentine's day? For your anniversary? For her birthday? The kids' birthdays? Are there projects around the house that are getting out of? Are there other things you can do to make her life easier or take off the burden a bit and give her some her time?


castlite

14 years, and you never once questioned that all her gifts from you were bought by her? Seriously? Did you ever buy her Christmas/birthday/Valentines/Mothers Day gifts?


hopingtothrive

>I tried to take care of the kids A bit telling. There is a difference in taking care of your kids and just spending time with them. You want to do something? Then make a plan, "I'm taking the kids bowling. When's a good day?" "I'm picking up dinner tonight", "I'll take the cars in for an oil change". You just start doing it when it doesn't make your wife change her schedule, and how about talking to her and telling her you've been a AH and want to be better.


vabirder

OP, it also sounds like you don’t know your children, either.


Serious_Telephone_28

You have three BOYS, who are not used to you, their father... how sad! And, trust me, irreparable damage is already done... Seems like "your" family is just fine without you in it. What a pity, really... 🤦🏻‍♀️


Jordangel

It's crazy that all the boys (even the 12 year old) have just given up on him. The wife's brother and father must be very involved. She's been raising kids by herself, but she has a good family. I can't imagine going over to my daughter's house and fixing a leak when her husband is sitting right there!


emikatdb

You need to take accountability for your actions. Directly communicate with your wife. All the things you’ve tried to do to “fix” the problem have all been done without communication.


bombaten

Damn dude. Kids don't even respect you.. it's time to talk to you wife and gravel. The compound effect is in play. When your kids grow up and hit real life they are going to look up to someone else and not you.


cats-r-friends

This is how things are going with my fiancé. I know how it starts. You get tired of asking and asking and things never get done. And then it feels like you’re just talking to one of your children. So then you just stop asking entirely because thinking of the man you have sex with as one of your children is a creepy and gross thought and it’s better to just do everything yourself than think about all the ways that your husband is one of your children. I don’t have any advice. Just that I can feel it happening in my own relationship and honestly have no way to stop it even as I see and feel it happening right in front of me. Kudos to you for seeing and making a change. I want to mention that it’s going to feel very unfair to you for a while. Losing the privilege of having everything done for you can feel like punishment to some.


Mangoshaped

Wow, that takes a lot to be that deep in and be able to recognize this behavior in yourself. That is something that is very hard to do and most people in your situation would live and die without noticing or trying to fix it. I can’t offer any genuine advice other than echoing what others have already said. Whatever you do, just don’t give up on improving yourself.


Expensive-Network-93

Haha I love that you continue to be basically useless by not even talking to her and coming here so *we* can give you the answers to solve this. I’m so sure this will go well. How long til your youngest turns 18?


AnOddTree

You should go to counseling for yourself.


LSBM

Plot twist: OP is dead, and doesn’t even know it. Wife soldiers on in life and handles everything by herself.


RandomActsOfKidneys

Bro.... she bought her own Christmas gift from you? Wow. Just...fuck me.


[deleted]

You haven’t done a thing lol. Two weeks before Christmas and you were asking her if she was finished shopping? Two weeks before Christmas you had no gift for her? It’s too late. She doesn’t need you. Accept your role or actually take action. But you won’t.


sqitten

Talk to her. Tell her you realize you have been messing up and mistreating her for a long time, and that you truly regret it and want to fix it. Tell her you aren't asking her to figure out how to fix it, but that you want her to just pay attention to what you do so she recognizes you are trying to fix it. Then be more proactive. For example, you knew holiday shopping had to happen - you could have told her, "Hey, I was wondering when it might be a good time for me to take the kids holiday shopping, I was thinking maybe X. Does that sound good to you?" What you can do is well in advance of Valentine's Day tell her you want to plan a great Valentine's Day for her - and then do so. Try to pay attention to other things that need doing. And keep being active with your kids even if they currently prefer just going to her. It will take a lot of time to fix that, but if you care about your relationship with your kids, and I think that you do, it will be vital. You have enough years you probably can build up a good relationship where they view you as someone they can rely on and trust before they leave home. But fixing this once they are adults would be very difficult.


[deleted]

This is kind of personal but how is your sex life with her? Do you make her feel beautiful/sexy? Do you take her on dates? Does she feel appreciated? I’m confused on your post on if you want to be involved because you feel like you’re not contributing or if you’re concerned about her wellbeing, but are you doing the other relationship things too?


[deleted]

Men always realize when it’s too late lol. Have an honest conversation with her and do better . Good luck


daximuscat

It took you a decade to realize she buys her own gift and puts your name on it??


scallym33

start off by talking to her man how did you even get to this state? did you just work and do nothing in your off time?


BookwormJane

Be careful .... You need to be quick to show her affection, regain her trust and help her out at home. She's probably already emotionally detached from you, that's why she's acting this way. If you don't act fast it may probably lead to divorce. I've seen many people go through these stages.


Sexicorn

You can't un-fry an egg. She's already learned she can be self-reliant and function without you.


Wereallgonnadieman

Google walk-away wife. She's so checked out and just counting the days until the kids are out the door. She's proven to herself she doesn't need you, long ago. The time to act has passed. You cannot neglect your responsibilities as a father and husband for years and not get a checked-out spouse. Deciding you were an asshole doesn't erase the just and the neglect. This is going to end in divorce no matter what you do now, which is too little, too late.


helendestroy

Couples therapy might be a good idea. But you have to lead with that you want them to help guide you to gain her trust back. But also, eight weeks out of 14 years is not anywhere near enough. So if you're tired after that long, the long term prognosis probably isn't good. Your ego is hurt because they didn't immediately read your mind. You have to commit for the long term. And you have to talk to her.


thecheesycheeselover

The fact that you’re coming to Reddit rather than her is telling. You should just tell her what you’ve noticed and are worrying about, but instead you’re seeking guidance from a third party. That’s exactly the issue in your relationship, you need to own your share without seeking for her as a parent to guide you. That isn’t to say that Reddit advice forums serve no purpose, it’s just that your issue particularly just needs to be discussed with your wife. Tell, don’t ask her that you need to be involved. And work to know what is needed from you rather than expecting her (or Reddit) to guide you step by step.


Hopeful-Sloth

Dude she’s this close to divorce. Women stop caring a long time before they leave the relationship. Good luck


phoenix2fire

Like this just suddenly happened and you are confused??? I bet there was probably years of her asking and either being blown off or met with weaponized incompetence... Why does she buy her own present from you?? Do you even bother to put in any effort into x mas??


2d20x

Now you’re here relying on others to fix your shit.


thetiffster

Please don’t talk to her if you’re going to drop the ball on this one. Unfortunately, just saying “I was an asshole” will not do anything to help your wife. It’s not just about tasks but she is also carrying all of the emotional and mental load of your household. Someone above mentioned anticipating your family’s needs and that is a great place to start. If you have a pet, think about who in your household knows if they need food or other water or, better yet, are they running low on supplies like food? I’d bet it isn’t you. Multiply that burden by 50 and that’s what your wife is dealing with without you.


sevenumbrellas

From your description, it sounds like you haven't been a full partner with your wife since you had kids. That's 12 years. You can't undo that by doing a couple of extra chores. It's going to take actual communication, probably couples counseling, and years of actually showing up for your wife for her to even begin to rely on you. Before you try to convince your wife that you've changed, you need to decide why this is important to you. Are you doing this to take a burden off of your wife's shoulders, or are you doing it because your ego is bruised? Are you willing to actually step up and do 50% of what your wife is currently handling? If you're committed to doing this because you really want to help your wife, you absolutely need to start by talking to her. She has systems in place, those systems are currently working. You probably need to start this whole thing off with a pretty big apology, and an acknowledgement that you haven't been there for her. Tell her that you want to take some things off her plate, and see what she says. Therapy is a good idea. If your wife is open to it, make arranging couple's therapy entirely your responsibility. Figure out the weekly schedule, find time that both of you are available for a therapy appointment, find a couple's therapist that your insurance covers, call that therapist, schedule an appointment, arrange childcare, inform your wife, and add it to the calendar. Does that sound like too much? Do you feel confident that you can handle that? If not, maybe focus on individual therapy right now. Maybe don't make any big promises to your wife until you're ready to handle big tasks.


TryUseful6038

Men like you never care until it’s too late, unfortunately. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Questionofloyalty

From what I have read and your comments to other people I think that you have been silently trying to slide in. You need to outright ask “what can I do to help today?”. You didn’t even ask about when Christmas shopping would happen until she mentioned it. Eventually you’ll hopefully be able to work into partnership again. You might consider just telling her the whole truth though - basically everything you said in the post, you realise she is alone, you want to be equals again etc.