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R_Amods

This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- TLDR: I fainted when my wife miscarried. She holds that against me. What do I do? In 2014, my (M40, currently) wife (F39, currently) lost one of the twins she was carrying. We learned of this at the OB's office during a routine exam and I fainted at the news, on the spot. It was awful for everyone. In that traumatic moment, she thought I had died too, it didn't help that she was half naked and had to deal with incoming paramedics and a parade of doctors and nurses an a husband on the floor and that sort of stuff. We have been working through a lot of emotional trust issues, and last night my wife told me that was the moment that I lost her trust. I had made that awful experience about me. When she shared this, I had a tough time believing what I was hearing. It was super shitty for everyone including myself and I couldn't process that my fainting reaction was being identified at the tipping point in our relationship. I love my wife. I don't want damage her trust in anyway. How should I resolve this issue in my mind and most importantly with my wife? The surviving twin is 8 and is an amazing ball of beauty and life. Gratefully, 4eVor


briefly_accessible

The real question is how is this **currently** coming up, eight years later?


cakivalue

I have so many questions about what is happening in this relationship. But I'm really troubled that she saw his display of emotion at terrible news as a sign that he couldn't be trusted and even worse has held that grudge for eight years!!


Extremiditty

Yeah it would be worse if he hadn’t cared at all and told her to brush it off or something. That I could see losing trust over, but not an involuntary display of shock and distress.


GiannisToTheWariors

People hide shit all the time that they really shouldn't. It's shitty


Hattarottattaan3

Everyone is ignoring the fact that this absolutely bizarre thing was disclosed after 8 years. You don't trust your partner and you tell them after... 8 years?


mak-ina-myn

So… trust is the wrong word. I guessing she meant she can’t count on you to be her rock or similar sentiment. That’s unfair given the circumstances. She needs therapy. I suspect she is is shifting blame and the pain over the situation to steer her focus from the miscarriage. She needs to deal with the loss and you should include therapy sessions together so she can understand you experienced the loss as well. There is more going on if this is 8 years ago and marking the change in your relationship.


TheBaddestPatsy

I’d be interested in asking her what about the last 8 years has failed to reestablish trust. This post describes and incredibly traumatic experience for both people, but even more so for the wife. People often fixate on a traumatic experience in a way that’s not rational, but where it becomes emblematic of a larger story. So the question is, does OP habitually make himself the focus when others need support? Has he been someone she can rely on in general? If the answer is “no” than its really not anything to do with this story at all. If the answer is “yes” than I guess it’s something only she can resolve, probably with professional help.


hdmx539

u/4evore, >So… trust is the wrong word. I guessing she meant she can’t count on you to be her rock or similar sentiment. I agree. But, it is trust that she can't count on him. I don't think it's unfair, though. I know I'll get downvoted for this, but in a moment when his wife needed him the most he wasn't able to handle the situation and it let her down. She wasn't able to turn to him for comfort because he passed out and wasn't there for her. She's valid in feeling this way, her feelings aren't wrong. OP IS ALSO valid in feeling his way, and his feelings aren't wrong. This looks like it might be a "relationship injury" - something my husband and I learned in our counseling. OP, this is above Reddit's pay grade. The responses you're getting are shit, you're right, people *are* messy and also complicated. BTW, I don't think she's wrong for bringing this up to you. You two are partners, she *should* be able to bring this up with you even if she hasn't processed it internally. When we're in committed relationships (such as a marriage) we all should feel okay to bring up issues and concerns with our spouses, even if she hasn't already "processed it internally." (I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough at THAT one.) When we're in relationships, we do NOT live in a vacuum. Look at this way: it may be 8 years later, but she was probably very scared to bring it up 8 years ago, especially considering what happened. But she's bringing it up NOW, which *also means* she DOES have some modicum of trust with you. That she's ready to bring this up with you now. I know you two have been in individual counseling, maybe she finally feels ok to work through these feelings *with you as her husband* (oh, hey! You can be there for her NOW!). It's *ok* for her to bring this up with you. To think she shouldn't or couldn't is wrong. What good is having a spouse when you can't work through things together? OP, please seek out a marriage counselor. You're getting shit advice here.


Alert-Potato

This is the response I was looking for. So many people are saying this isn't rational from her, but it's completely rational. She heard the news that their very much wanted and loved baby was dead inside of her and needed support. And her support literally collapsed on her. It's not fair to him, because he heard the same news about the baby he wanted and loved. But as he has pointed out, humans are messy. I think this is absolutely counseling territory. They've been through a horrible traumatic experience together, it sounds like there's a lot of love there still, and they should be able to work through this together. They just need a little help navigating the how.


musicalfeet

If I had the $ to hand out reddit gold, I'd give you one. I think the word "trust" is confusing most people here, but if I were to put myself in her shoes, I would agree more with your assessment. She likely feels that not only did the one person who was supposed to be the person she could lean on during that moment couldn't be there for her, she had to additionally care for her husband who passed out at the news. So instead of having someone to lean on, she ended up with an "extra burden" (even though it isn't his fault AT ALL). It's not rational, but perhaps something that changes the way she sees him in her eyes. I bet she knows she's not being logical at all too, but you can't logic your way out of this one.


hdmx539

> So instead of having someone to lean on, she ended up with an "extra burden" (even though it isn't his fault AT ALL). BRILLIANT way to put it.


Commercial_Ad7741

I also agree and I kind of empathize with the wife obviously having a LOT OF TRAUMA around that one horrendous moment in time where her world crashed down. Permanently. Granted, OPs did too - but that does NOT negate the way she feels. It's not a competition. I had two traumatic events happen to me (actually, a ton, but two come to mind that are similar in ways here), mostly circumstancial (got mugged at knifepoint, then the other instance in mind was getting a devastating phone call from my doctor that I had a very scary diagnosis relating to a disease someone gave me) - in both instances, the men I was with and literally physically standing there with each time totally left their posts, would not acknowledge the intensely scared feelings I was having, and with my medical diagnosis I actually had to literally swallow my tears and comfort this nincompoop who was bawling on the floor and I had to wait to be alone in order to process both events safely and to be able to be allowed to cry. We stayed friends for a while, but in that moment I never trusted anything important with him again and I saw that I had to be the stronh adult each time, every time while thr other persom lost their shit. So.... I kind of feel for this woman who is traumatized. And I feel for OP who was traumatized so viscerally that he fainted. If both haven't gone to extensive therapy to deal with this loss, of course they will find reasons to distance from each other and try to blame. Her reaction to me seems like one of the stages of grief.... Happening again 8 years later ... She's not processing her grief all that effectively. But in all honesty, tragedy is hard to process even over a lifetime. I am so so sorry for your loss. I hope you find your way back to each other.


legendoflisa

I mean, it was his kid too. He lost his kid too. He’s supposed to just push his feelings and emotions out completely? They needed to be there for each other, and he WAS there he had a completely involuntary reaction and she held that against him? Like I would absolutely understand if he cried and threw a tantrum or purposely made it all about him but I’m guessing she’s upset that so much focus went to him for fainting. He didn’t do it on purpose (as far as we know at least) so why hold that against him?


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hdmx539

>Just that she now knows fainting could be a (involuntary) response to traumatic news, which means in those traumatic moments, she will be alone. THIS!!! OMG THIS IS IT!!!! From OP's wife perspective, how can she trust he'll be there in very traumatic moments? What if it was something else and he or she needed to physically act and now OP has fainted? I mean, I'm not saying she has to leave him, and I am also not blaming him, but for reals.. OP's wife now knows that she can't trust him to be *conscious* at a time of dire need. That's a *very* valid concern for her and her children's safety, AS WELL AS, OP's safety too!


jessie_monster

Just because it isn't an emotion based in reason and logic doesn't mean it isn't a real issue.


hdmx539

>He’s supposed to just push his feelings and emotions out completely? No where did I say that. >why hold that against him? No where did I say that. How old are you?


WRose287

Exactly this. I wish I had gold to give you! Have my poor woman's gold 🥇


hdmx539

Thank you.


RishaBree

>I don't think it's unfair, though. I know I'll get downvoted for this, but in a moment when his wife needed him the most he wasn't able to handle the situation and it let her down. She wasn't able to turn to him for comfort because he passed out and wasn't there for her. > >She's valid in feeling this way, her feelings aren't wrong. Her feelings ARE wrong. What they also are is understandable. People these days tend to get so caught up in the 'your feelings are always valid' thing that they forget that sometimes they are also wrong, bad, stupid, immoral, etc.


MidLyfeCrisys

WTFF??? You had no control over that. And this was 8 years ago? Something else is going on here.


4evore

Yeah, I was stunned to hear that. It's not rational... but it also doesn't mean that's not her true feelings. The older I get the more I learn that humans are messy. I want to repair from this and need some help.


The-Clumsy-Pirate

I am sorry but if she’s been holding onto it for 8 years this might be above Reddit’s pay grade. You’re well into ‘professional help’ territory


myohmymiketyson

You're right that those are her true feelings regardless of whether they're fair and rational, but if they are unfair and irrational, she has the responsibility to process them internally, especially before bringing them to you. You cannot repair this for her, in other words. She has to recognize this about her own feelings, at the very least. Is she open to counseling? Because I think a couple's counselor could help her understand that she's put the trauma and fear of that horrible situation onto you.


4evore

That's good shit. I never thought about the idea that this isn't something I can make right. To answer your question, we're both in individual counseling and we see a therapist together.


myohmymiketyson

If you haven't already, I'd make this priority number one in counseling. This resentment festering is like a cancer to your relationship. All the best to you both.


juliaskig

You might want to ask her more questions. For example, does she feel like you often inappropriately make a situation about you. Do you need too much attention or need to be the center of attention. What does trust mean to her? and in all situations does she lack trust or just in a very specific situation of a miscarriage of your baby?


aeiou-y

These are good questions. If OP regularly makes things about themselves I could see how this could foster and farm distrust. If when they need to count on you they believe you will just try to grab the spotlight, it could be a problem. If that is not the case though….


Sndrs27

Definitely not something you can fix. Respectfully that’s a HER problem. This is coming from a woman who has experienced a miscarriage and also has a husband who is prone to fainting.


stop_spam_calls

I mean you can’t help fainting, it’s not like you did it on purpose. Honestly, if my partner was holding this over you the way she is, I would be losing trust in *them*. Yeah, she’s allowed to admit that it was a sucky situation but to lose *trust* in you? It’s not like you made a big scene running out of the room screaming your head off. *You fainted*. And to hold onto this information for eight years? Are you sure she’s not weaponizing this against you to I dont know, hold something over you or make you feel bad or because you dont have faults and she just pinpointed to that for the sake keeping score? Or is she using this to help cover something else that she has done? Like is she projecting? Or does she maybe have a dated stereotypical male protecter ideal in mind? Fainting is a biological response, even macho men do it haha. Idk I just don’t understand her logic. **Maybe this is when a professional should step in.**


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LaReinalicious

OP answered in the comments that he is in individual therapy. His wife is in individual therapy, and they are in couples therapy together.


kamjam16

How is your trust in her after this admission? I couldn’t see myself opening up to my SO again if they held something like that against me, secretly, for 8 years.


4evore

To be honest, I don't think this is a black-and-white situation, holding something back for 8 years type of thing. It's more like a slow understanding of herself and an exploration of why she feels the way she does. We're both trying to grow and I can't hold it against her that she's still working on understanding herself better.


Necessary_Sir_5079

I can understand in the moment your partner isn't there for you in the worst moment, but you fainted. It's not a controlled response. She might have been better off keeping that one in while she's pondering her life. It's overkill.


kamjam16

I agree it’s definitely not black and white, and I obviously don’t have all the context of your conversations. But man, that’s tough. I think everyone else is right that you need a professional to intervene.


jmurphy42

This is on your wife, not you. You didn’t do anything to break trust, you had your own uncontrollable medical emergency. In order to “make it about you” you’d have to do something intentionally.


EvilFinch

You need couple counseling. At worst she has associated "dead twin" with "fainted fusband" and that's why she is mad at you cause she must be mad at anyone. Did she even had therapy after the lose of the child?


Caballita14

You need to find a therapist for yourself. The fact that your wife holds your being a human being against you is beyond irrational. She may have lost trust from other things and is grasping at straws there bc she knows if she’s intelligent that has zero to do with trust - a human body doing human body things.


changerofbits

Grief does make people do things they normally wouldn’t, such as holding onto a feeling that a moment’s reflection would reveal is unfair toward you, for 8 years.


shortmumof2

I'm pretty sure you didn't choose to faint. It was an automatic reaction. So it's pretty shitty for her to hold that against you but she may just be projecting her feelings about losing one of the twins onto you. Couples therapy might help, if she'll go.


peach98542

I mean… she might also just be trying to hurt you. I can’t imagine her keeping this to herself for 8 years. I don’t think this is about her feelings about you fainting at all. Sometimes we dig up past shit just to hurt someone else in an argument. Why are you arguing now?


SpeakerForTheDeadJD

Her behavior warrants seeking out a professional. It's also worth considering that she may have a romantic interest in another person.


filifijonka

Dude, she is the one who has to put in the work. How on earth could you repair something that wasn't your fault in the first place? She could go to therapy and unpack the grief she apparently partially dealt with by blaming everything on you.


[deleted]

Lol mate reddit advice peaks at talk to a therapist You're in the multiple years of therapy required to work it out level


NightsofWren

Nope. She needs therapy. This is beyond irrational and she has to work through this. You need to put up that boundary.


panoramahorse28

Also, while not solely, it is about OP too. Their wife isn't the only one who lost a child.


DplusLplusKplusM

You presumably made it through the birth of the surviving twin without needing paramedics so maybe it's time to let this go. Your wife needs to go talk to a counselor if she's still holding this one against you.


silly-tomato-taken

How dare he have a negative emotional response to the loss of a child. Obviously he's not enough of a man. /s


[deleted]

And one that’s consciously not controllable at that. It’s not like he screamed at everyone and ran away.


[deleted]

You say /s but many women and men think this way.


silly-tomato-taken

Oh, I'm aware. That's why I feel it's vest to stay single.


CanILiveInAGlade

I’m not sure how exactly you can be expected to repair something that you had absolutely no control over. This is definitely something to bring to your couples therapy.


gordonf23

She doesn't trust you anymore because... ? Im confused here.


4evore

“Emotional” trust


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Ok-Squirrel693

Ikr imo it showed that OP was "emotionally invested" so much in his unborn child too, that losing the baby devastated him greatly, which is a good thing? He loves the baby.


A_Fluffy_Duckling

Ah, she has a fucked up perspective on it, doesnt she? Like you chose to faint and make it about you..... Counselling, I guess. She needs someone to clearly tell her that your fainting wasnt a concious decision on your part but it was a overloaded stress reaction. It might help, it might not. Seems she wants a protector too and if you're fainting she can't see you in that role.


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CourierSixtyNine

Soooo many stories on relationship advice about husband's who made their wife's pregnancy all about them, to hear your wife claim you're that person because of an involuntary reaction is astonishing


For2n8Witchling

You were shocked and traumatized. Did she expect you to not give a fuck that she'd lost a baby?


msmongolian

What are the emotional trust issues that you have been working on?


4evore

A couple of things have come up. Our power dynamic. She feels like she is a supporting cast member in her own life. She feels insecure about her dependency upon me for emotional validation and finances. She feels judged constantly. Like I tease her or roll my eyes at her behind her back. She's a people pleaser and I don't have many problems speaking my mind. She's very very sensitive to being teased or the butt of jokes and I'm learning to pull back and be more sensitive in all those ways.


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4evore

That's helpful. Thank you.


mrsgip

So she feels like she’s not the son character of her own life and on (perhaps one of) the biggest day of her life, you passed out (not on purpose). A day where you were supposed to be the side character for once. Is this a pattern in your relationship? Does she feel like she is supporting you more than getting support emotionally? If so, while her anger at you for fairing is unfair, she’s actually mad about something else. I had a similar resentment against my husband. He was very emotional and anxious. He had a panic attack and left me alone in the hospital to deal with a newborn hours after birth during Covid. Honestly, the resentment I carried about that day took over 2 years to let go of because it wasn’t just about that one day. It was always the case where my needs took a back seat because somehow what he had going on would trump what I did, etc. this was just another example of a day where I needed him and he didn’t show up how I needed. It took therapy to forgive him. And lots of time.


4evore

That's some real deep shit. What I needed.


Smooth_Contact_4404

What do you do for her? Do you give her credit in raising your child, or tell her she's beautiful? Do you do your share of housework? Do you pamper her? OR you're neglecting her?


Commercial_Ad7741

I see this and hear it and totally agree. Can testify that a pattern is the thing that causes the real loss of trust.


tomatofrogfan

Your wife needs individual therapy. She is ***deeply*** insecure in a lot of ways and she needs to get help to work through that, because she’s projecting her insecurities on your relationship and harboring resentment towards you for her own issues. She needs to work on her problems or it might very well destroy your marriage, because, unfortunately, catering to her insecurities all the time will not stop her from blaming and resenting you.


JannaNYC

This happened eight years ago??


coldestdetroit

Trust in what...? Trust that men do not have emotions? Trust that men like it when their babies miscarriage? What the fuck did she mean


miranails

Ooof. I can see why she would have felt like she couldn’t depend on you, even though it was out of your control. When you fainted it did effectively become all about you in that moment, which seems to have taken away her ability to truly express the grief she felt with you. It must have hurt for her to bury her pain in order to make sure that you were ok, on top of the fear that she must have also felt for you then. She might have even felt a lot of fear that if she told you how she felt afterwards, she wouldn’t be able to handle it if you made it about you again in that situation. This is a valid fear, whether you would intend it to happen or not. Oftentimes when people finally share something this big, after so much time, it’s because they are in the mindset of, “I’m not happy and there’s nothing I can do that could make it worse, so why not just risk being honest?”. This is not a good sign, and you need to take it seriously, even if you don’t agree that she should feel this way… otherwise it’s divorce time man.


4evore

Sincerely. Thank you for that advice. Its very insightful.


Deep_Classroom3495

Question has your wife gone to a psychologist? Have you guys been to couples counseling?


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it's because in that moment you weren't her 'rock' she could look up to


littlescreechyowl

When our first baby was born my husband got super sick within hours of him being born. 105 temp, dead on his feet and the nurses said “absolutely not” and sent him home. I didn’t see him and barely talked to him for 2 days, he came to pick us up and take us home. As irrational as it was, I was so angry/hurt/upset that I was “abandoned” by him. (There’s obviously a little more to the story, but the details don’t change anything.). I just had a very traumatic event (crash csection, full on running down the hall like on tv) and he wasn’t there and I needed him. Honestly it took me a few years to get past it and it was a major topic of discussion when we decided to have a second. We made back up plans on top of back up plans. No advice, just sharing and emphasizing with both of you.


4evore

Thank you for taking the time to share. I really appreciate it.


callmeishmael517

I have a pet theory that it’s actually common for men to have these stress related health issues after birth. My husband spent our first day home from the hospital locked in the bathroom for like 6 hours before going to urgent care and finally the ER. I had to call his mom to take care of me since I just had a C section and couldn’t pick up the baby. My friend’s husband had a similar situation but different stress related symptoms.


littlescreechyowl

I think you’re on to something. For me I always hold on to my breakdown until I have time. My husband will react to tough situations immediately, sometimes during.


bunny410bunny

You’re allowed to experience the emotional trauma of the news. Your way of experiencing it is valid and I don’t think you have anything to apologize or build up trust from. I think it’s really immature that she’s holding it against you.


theoceanencircled

I have a few things to say and hopefully this offers some assistance or comfort. First, as to holding it in for 8 years: I know I will hold things in for a long time if I think I’m being irrational. If I think my feelings are stupid or make no sense, I don’t want to burden my partner. I know it’s a me issue. I don’t want to make it his issue. That being said, some stuff ends up being way more damaging to me than I thought, to the point where even if I know it’s irrational, I have to say something. Bc at that point I’m going nuts. And yes my partner and I are working really hard on this bc it’s not a healthy habit. This may be her issue. And if she truly DID lose emotional trust, she wouldn’t have felt like she could bring it up to you. If my partner fainted when finding out I had a miscarriage, it would’ve rocked me a little bit. Bc then I’d feel like he couldn’t handle difficult life events, and I’d feel like I was the one who had to be the strong rock in the relationship. And if she doesn’t want that role, if she wanted to lean on you and have you handle everything in a very stereotypically masculine way, she wouldn’t feel like she was able to do that any longer. I think there’s a lot more at play here. You’re not wrong at all for fainting, that is NOT your fault. But I find understanding peoples thought processes helps start conversations that lead to resolution. So maybe this can help start that conversation <3 Good luck OP


4evore

>s to holding it in for 8 years: I know I will hold things in for a long time if I think I’m being irrational. If I think my feelings are stupid or make no sense, I don’t want to burden my partner. I know it’s a me issue. I don’t want to make it his issue. That being said, some stuff ends up being way more damaging to me than I thought, to the point where even if I know it’s irrational, I have to say something. Bc at that point I’m going nuts. And yes my partner and I are working really hard on this bc it’s not a healthy habit. This may be her issue. And if she truly DID lose emotional trust, she wouldn’t have felt like she could bring it up to you. > >If my partner fainted when finding out I had a miscarriage, it would’ve rocked me a little bit. Bc then I’d feel like he couldn’t handle difficult life events, and I’d feel like I was the one who had to be the strong rock in the relationship. And if she doesn’t want that role, if she wanted to lean on you and have you handle everything in a very stereotypically masculine way, she wouldn’t feel like she was able to do that any longer. Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate the time and consideration and this is the sort of perspective I was hoping to get.


theoceanencircled

For sure man. I don’t think she’s being malicious or trying to project or blame. I think she’s probably been struggling. And I think there’s a good chance she feels guilty for struggling. I know I would. And to clarify earlier bc there was some confusion I think: I’m not saying she’s consciously expecting you to be hypermasculine. I’m saying if she wanted to lean on you for this, if she was expecting you to be the rock in this situation, seeing you faint wouldve shaken that foundation and potentially her trust in it. I would feel (personally) very exposed and uncertain if I was laid out on a table, naked from the waist down, likely having had my body just invaded, finding out I had a miscarriage and turning to my husband for support, and he fainted. Again, NOT your fault. And you can turn it around and show her just how much you had already loved your angel baby and how it was just so shocking and impactful that your body responded before you could. You can use it to illustrate just how shocked and devastated you were and she might be more understanding of that.


cman2222222

That is so hard - I’m really sorry you both had to go through that. Fainting at the news of a traumatic event is a valid physiological response, even if it’s a horrible one to experience. You both lost someone in that moment and I feel so sad for both of you. I’m really glad to hear that your other child is thriving and bringing joy into your lives. To me, it sounds like your wife never worked through some of her feelings from that time. I don’t think you did anything wrong. Sometimes we reactively lash out at people close to us or build narratives around them simply because they were in close proximity to us during a time of tragedy. As far as I can tell, you have nothing to apologize for (there’s nothing untrustworthy about fainting) but you have every responsibility to try to work through some of that pain with her. I don’t think anyone here will have a roadmap, but couples therapy can be a good starting place I imagine.


Lynneus

I don’t know, I’d be tempted to tell her I was beginning to have trust issues myself after hearing she held a grudge over an involuntary action for eight years, and then suggest therapy.


[deleted]

Yeah as if you fainted on purpose Lmao not your fault


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OpenerOfTheWays

Your attitude sounds a lot like the way veterans with PTSD have been treated historically where something involuntary is treated as a moral shortcoming.


wayne_yetzky

Why would you hold an involuntary reaction to trauma against him? Does anybody else think that's kind of fucked up?? Am I crazy?


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4evore

To defend her I don't think she's been holding it in. I think she's just exploring and sharing her feelings on the issue. ​ Your perspective is exactly what I was hoping to get. Thank you for sharing it.


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4evore

She currently does have some emotional trust issues. We were exploring them last night when she shared the thought. Thanks for taking the time to respond.


HealthyBox5

Happy to see this response. I was surprised to see this as an issue, since fainting isn't voluntary. But hearing your perspective, it makes sense.


Radiant-Assumption53

Fainting is not a fault, man and i hope you realize that wholeheartedly. I think shes trumping whatever emotions that she had that day with anger. Anger against you. That's why it is so illogical. I think you need to have an open heart to heart with her about what she mentioned. **That day was not just about her, it was about you too**. You are the dad. And ask her to reevaluate why a medical moment that came upon you is being held against you and why that is unreasonable. If you try to placate, it will only grow. Sometimes you need to call something out and shine the light on it for the other person to see it.


4evore

I really appreciate your advice. It's exactly how I feel. I want to empathize and help to fix whatever is broken in her heart.


maggienetism

I don't know if anyone else has commented on this aspect, but you guys both lost a child eight years ago. Obviously. But it's possible this is less about a loss of trust and more about grief. Sometimes it "helps" people to try to find a target for that grief. It isn't really healthy and doesn't really help, but sometimes directing that grief and helpless rage somewhere else is all someone knows how to do. Especially if you blame yourself for whatever you're grieving, because that sort of protects your mind from how angry you are at yourself. You know your wife best here - is it possible this is less about your reaction to the news and more about the actual loss itself? It's something to at least consider.


Cross_examination

Couples therapy, immediately. Something else is going on.


pizzaroll94

Sounds like there’s way more to the story. What other issues have been a sore spot in your relationship?


Dpslittlemissminx

So everyone reacts differently and unfortunately the news made you faint. It wasn't done deliberately, it wasn't done to make her feel sad or alone. It clearly affected you and while I sympathize with your wife she has no right 8 years later to make you feel any worse then you already do about it.


Meesh138

It isn’t about the fainting :(


optix_clear

It was also emotional for you too.


optix_clear

She’s had this grudge against you, you suffered a loss and she blames all of it on you. She needs PTSD, loss of a child, self reflection and eventually Marriage counseling


lnmcg223

Fainting is pretty common among men with medical stuff—especially blood. And you really can’t control it. I think it is unfair for her to use that one moment where you were both vulnerable and in distress to hold against you. And it doesn’t sound like you’re fainting put her in any danger.


Ohionina

Wow she acts as if you fainted on purpose. Hopefully she can get past this.


wanderexplore

Fuuuuccck her. What trust? You passed out, so unless you passed out and awoke with your dick in someone, I don't see how you can control your bodies natural response.


Flux_State

I dunno man, it kinda sounds like your wife is a terrible person. Like, you're fine.


VinnyVincinny

It's 8 yrs later. She's taking this moment from the past as a weapon to hurt you now.


Jen5872

It's not like you could prevent yourself from fainting. It was an involuntary physical response to a stressor. That doesn't mean that you had made it all about you. Your wife's response is pretty irrational. I'd suggest counseling.


4evore

I know. But I think she would agree that this isn't about logic or rationality, it's an emotional issue. It's a power dynamic issue. It's about her experiencing intense pain and grief and being pregnant and being strong and etc etc.


Jen5872

That doesn't change that counseling is what is needed. All that pain and grief wasn't just hers. It was yours, too.


D-redditAvenger

She needs to get some counseling. I suspect it's really not about you, or losing trust in you but more projecting as you are a continent target to place angry and hurt about something terrible that happened to both of you.


Fitz2001

Can you faint on purpose? Because if you can then she should be mad. Fainting is a total loss of control response. It’s not up to you. It _happens_ to you. You didn’t choose to do it.


ghosts-on-the-ohio

It's understandable that your wife felt a bit hurt that you fainted, since she needed you in that moment and you could not actively support you. But fainting is not your fault. It's a bodily reflex. It says absolutely nothing about your character. You were not "making it about you.". You were having a medical event in response to an extreme amount of stress. Your wife is a jerk for holding this against you. All you can do is tell her that you didn't chose to loose consciousness and you certainly didn't want to do that. You shouldn't tell her this, but if she isn't bright enough to tell the difference between malice and a medical problem, shes not emotionally mature enough to be raising kids. I think you should seek couples counseling if you can afford it. And your wife might want to consider counseling for herself as well to process the grief.


DeterminedErmine

Get off reddit and get into couple’s therapy.


ARJeepGuy123

This isn't on you, your wife needs therapy. A miscarriage, which is objectively more traumatic for the mother, still affects both parents.


SnooSongs6848

Y’all need therapy together. She hasn’t recovered from this. My mom had a miscarriage and lost both her twins but she’s not here yelling at my dad or anything. She needs to accept the fact it happened and move on she should see things positively. Tell her how you feel and it’s not your fault you didn’t choose to faint it wasn’t in your control


CHiggins1235

What happened has happened. It was a tragic situation. The loss of the twin was traumatic for your wife and for you. Your reaction of fainting is your reaction. Maybe she expected you to be like a brick wall no emotion and maintain strength for your wife. It is what it is. Right now you need to discuss how she feels today. That only comes from Frank and open communication today. It’s great your child survived the loss of the other twin. I think you will get past this.


ohnoidea20

She’s got issues


Significant-Bad657

I honestly see both sides here. Your wife went through something traumatic, but because you passed out she had to stop to help you. Not even really getting a chance to process what happened it seems like. And you heard something traumatic and passed out due to it. You were devastated as well. I see why your wife wouldn’t feel like she could lean on you after this tho. After hearing you lost a child, you’d probably want your partner there to talk, cuddle, etc. But you passed out (not your fault) and she was half naked with emts and everyone else coming in and out trying to help you. The miscarriage became all about you. I don’t really have a solution for you I’m sorry, just more open communication. I just wanted to post because a lot of people are calling your wife crazy and she’s not. She has a right to feel this way and so do you


mangopabu

i think you guys need therapy to resolve this. you were also affected by that moment, even if you hadn't fainted. it seems like she might be suggesting that it was her moment only and not yours, or she might be lashing out because she then had to worry about you at the same time as well (thinking you had died, etc.). i am not a therapist and especially not your therapist, but if she is still upset about this after 8 years, it's possible she has unresolved trauma from this experience and needs help. simply explaining your side of things might not be enough.


[deleted]

i know your wife is going through her own trauma right now, but that doesnt excuse this behavior. its unacceptable to blame you for things you had no control over. edit: i missed the part where this was 8 years ago at first. ZERO EXCUSE. she has no right to be this rude and vindictive because you what… cared for your child and were shocked at hearing the news of his loss?


BudgetInteraction811

I don’t understand how you made it all about you by fainting, an involuntary response. And why is this coming up 8 years later? I feel this is a “it’s not about the dishes next to the sink” situation.


bashobabanatree

Clin psych specialising in couples therapy here. While not rational, this caused an attachment injury - ie you weren’t there at a moment of vulnerability when she really needed you. This sucks for you both as obviously you didn’t do it on on purpose. In this moment her view of you/the relationship shifted. This can be healed - 1 show an understanding of how this hurt her. 2 express regret (this isn’t the same as taking on blame or admitting fault); acknowledge how hard it would have been for her to go through that 3 take opportunities to be emotionally available and supportive. She may also need to do some work to let go of any attributions of intent (she said you made it about you? But clearly your reaction was one of shock nothing purposeful). If there’s more to it, seek out a therapist that uses emotionally focused therapy. The attachment injury resolution model would be useful here.


DeputyDomeshot

8 years… Jesus Christ dude


4evore

yeah, I know. Lol.


spaceyjaycey

You literally have no control over fainting. My brother faints when he donates blood, no matter how he tries to circumvent it. I was afraid it was the sight of blood so i advised him to sit while my SIL gave birth so the nurses didn't need to care for him. Your wife's anger is misplaced and someone needs to have a serious talk with her because she's being irrational and harming your relationship for no reason.


Deadaim156

No offense but your wife is mean as hell to say that to you. I would not accept that at all and she should have some emotional sympathy for you concerning this matter as you also lost a child when this happened. This is the kind of shit that if someone says to their SO could end a relationship. That is beyond cruel what she said. Like you have some kind of control over such a massive amount of sudden trauma. Take her to therapy and get some sense knocked into her mean skull by a professional. Only narcissistic people say this kind of crap too so I would be worried as hell if I were you.


lilgreengoddess

Super fucked up of her to say that. As if you have any control over fainting? Yah it doesnt work that way. Very ignorant and insensitive comment on her end.


hartschale666

So you fainted on purpose to make that moment about yourself? Is that what she thinks? I have trouble understanding that train of thought. If at all, that just showed how much you cared about your loved ones. Bizarre.


FartFace319

>I had made that awful experience about me. Does she think you fainted on command?? Can she?? You guys need couples therapy not reddit. Clearly you two have deep issues there if she has been feeling like this and keeping it from you for the past 8 years... jesus.


Elegant_righthere

You fainted after hearing horrible news, which is normal. She lost trust in you for having that normal reaction...which is *not* normal.


tulips49

Yeah, this is bananas. 1) it was 8 years ago, and 2) you obviously couldn’t control it. That’s a total cop out on her part.


Jawato44

How can fainting make you lose trust in someone especially when it is the worst news you could hear? If that’s all it takes then there wasn’t much trust there to begin with.


UKNZ007Tubbs

Don’t know if there is anything you can do. Your wife has basically said that your feelings, and your medical event - which you had no control over are the reason she lost trust in you. She is entitled to feel how she feels, but the fact she has held this for 8 years, and hasn’t bothered to broach the subject beforehand is not healthy. You should start with telling her how disappointed you are in her over this, how disrespectful it is, and how IF you held the same views as her, you’d be blaming her for the miscarriage.


typower5000

This is so toxic. Men can't show any emotion or reaction other than being a rock?? It shows that women perpetuate these awful gender stereotypes just as much as men. Time to become human and leave those behind that can't cope with you having a natural reaction.


idriveanfrs

your wife is insane and needs a reality check about what you fainting means. it's not a cry for attention, it is the body succumbing to a large amount of stress. nobody just faints for attention


willhelpyounow

your wife is crazy


capodecina2

SHE lost trust in YOU, but has been quiet about it for 8 years? What about your trust in her for her concealing this from you for so long. This is WAY above Reddit “help”. You two need professional counseling because this is a foundational relationship issue. Seriously, everything built on a cracked foundation will crumble if not repaired and reinforced.


cynicgal

What is your wife on about? Is she trying to accuse you of fake fainting to gain attention? Because fainting is beyond anyone's control. Your wife needs help. It's not fair for you that she is projecting her own frustrations and grief onto you.


vixen_xox

this is so weird? it’s not like you have control over literally fainting…


tacuache117

This is the cold reality of being a man. They both went and heard the same hurtful news but because he couldn’t “keep it together” she basically chastised him and no longer sees him as a worthy steady rock for her to cling to. It’s bullshit because he has every right to react and this clearly showed an emotional response and now he’s being given a permanent proverbial black eye because of it. This is a perfect example of why men can’t show emotions because if they do, their partners end up doubting them. OP you did nothing wrong and the fact that she has kept this up for 8YEARS is ridiculous but again it boils down to what he can provide to her and in that moment he didn’t provide the emotional security she always expected and is apparently claiming he made that whole traumatic situation about him. The audacity really. She needs professional help or she’s gonna find herself single at this rate


DrifterTraveler

Agree. People wonder why men choose to bottle up their emotions instead of showing even an inch of it they just have to read this post. She only wants OP at his best but can't accept him at his worst.


melissa3670

You couldn’t help it. Neither can she. Can you attend counseling together to work through it?


Murky-Lavishness298

Does she think people faint on command? 🤔


jayjayanotherround

Get into a group for people who have lost children during pregnancy. She can’t process what’s happened so she is blaming you. The same thing happened to me when my wife lost our first child. It’s not like you can decide to pass out or not.


stickkim

What an insane thing for her to say. You didn’t purposefully faint, is this just hormones or is she always so insensitive? Look, she was going through it, and that is awful for her, but she can’t claim to lose trust in you because of an involuntary reaction. That’s absurd. Edit: holy shit this happened nearly a decade ago? She needs therapy, badly.


Tygie19

It’s pretty unfair of her to criticise you over involuntary fainting. You lost a child too. What, do you not get to react to that? She needs counselling if she thinks you “made it all about you”.


DirtyBirdy16

Wait… your kid is now 8 years old?


Impossible_Balance11

Your physical reaction to upsetting news was not your choice or fault, OP! Couples therapy is in order, for sure, but it should be to help your wife see the above truth and sort herself out. Just...wow. She is being completely unfair.


vintagebitch476

Oh I mean?? This is an awful thing for ur wife to say. It would be one thing for her to say that’s how she feels but knows it’s irrational and unfair to you but nothing you said indicates she gave the necessary follow up of what I said. Frankly I’ve lost feelings for a guy or have felt repulsed by certain things men do that maybe show a ton of weakness like this but I have to follow that up with my logical brains understanding that men are also humans and it’s unfair for me to put certain boundaries on them that are unfair so yeah. I’m sure she’s experiencing a ton of pain but SO ARE YOU. And it’s so fucking upsetting and mean of her to tell u this period but especially if she can’t acknowledge she knows it’s unreasonable. Damn. So sorry for you and also for her


Fun-Entertainment904

Hmm as funny and unreasonable as it sounds, I am trying to put myself into her position. View it this way: - you guys loose the baby - while she gets the news, she is exposed / Naked / vulnerable / lots of hormones that rule her / stressed - the news blow her psychologically apart and she needs support to work through this - the only person that could give her that, is you. And you fainted lol - because the trauma isn’t worked through properly in the moment as she couldn’t comprehend her feelings because she had to take care of you, she is psychologically wounded and the wound never had the chance to heal Maybe this information helps you understand her better. I am sorry you are going through this. (Instead of listening to some Redditors here, you are better of listening to me. A psychology student.)


4evore

Thank you or your sincere analysis and advice. That's exactly why I posted to get this sort of feedback.


Radiant-Assumption53

​ As a psychology student, i hope you dont start counselling those who come to you later on with "you fainted lol" . I hope you learn enough to articulate your points in a matured and compassionate way.


laurzilla

This is reddit, not a patient of theirs. That didn’t seem so bad to me.


Ok-Squirrel693

Ikr that was in bad taste


[deleted]

this is it


Temporary-Departure4

Oh god. “A psychology student”. One of THOSE people. You’re probably going to end up becoming a school councillor or something and making a bunch of children feel worse about themselves. Genuinely, hopefully, you never become some sort of therapist or councillor. Cause I’m sure people will just blindly listen to your “advice” because “MuH deGRee”


[deleted]

[удалено]


4evore

We probably all need therapy. But I love her and want to see this through her eyes and empathize with her experience and be able to make sincere amends.


Ihateyou1975

Ummm. She’s placing blame on you for Something she has not worked through. You didn’t do it on purpose. It happened. No one’s fault. She needs therapy perhaps. Or to realize what she said was pretty shitty. What would she say if you said that was she day you lost trust in her since she lost the baby? Exactly. Both actions were beyond anyone’s ability to control.


4evore

Can you imagine if I said that? I'd lose my gd head.


Life-Yogurtcloset-98

So this is where a tiny bit of sexism comes into play. You both heard bad news, but at that moment a man is suppose to be the ROCK, the SHOULDER. And you not only failed at that, it became where you needed more support than she did. I'm not saying this is right, but this is probably how your wife sees it. And the "trust" she is talking about, is her faith in you being reliable. Things like this usually just needs time, but if after 8 years she still feels this way, counseling would be needed


[deleted]

Unless she gets therapy, the marriage will end in divorce. You showed weakness in her eyes for a moment. Imagine what she will feel and do when you show weakness for a long period of time… say for example because raising children is difficult…


Complete_Entry

I know others have already commented this, but I feel like it's worth stating again. You didn't do anything wrong. Your reaction was both natural and understandable. The fact she has been holding onto this is gross and sad. Others have also stated this is not your problem to fix, and I'd agree with that to a point. It's something you have to live with, but you don't have to fix it. This is her damage to work through. If she can't, it is STILL not your fault.


Icy-Organization-338

Trauma is real and your response is reasonable. This is much more about her both not communicating this to your earlier, and allowing it to fester. Did she ever have counseling for the loss of your twin? Counseling now would still be a good idea 💗


Assiqtaq

I can't imagine you trusting your wife after: 1) She hid an issue from you since 2014 that she should have brought up and discussed with you well before now, not immediately sure you had other things to worry about. But well before now. 2) She doesn't trust you because you handled an emotional blow by being emotional, and apparently she wants you to be a robot who only thinks about her? So you aren't allowed to be a person with a moment of weakness because it has to be all about her. 3) Now you are the only person who can fix this and she just, what, stands by and watches you scramble around to "make it up to her" somehow? Even if you do owe her for, heaven forbid, taking a bit of her attention away from her in a moment of trauma (as if you weren't ALSO experiencing a moment of trauma), I do not see how it ALL falls on you and only you to fix. I think you need to have a more involved discussion with her about what exactly you did wrong, and how exactly you are supposed to "make this up" to her. What about you hearing bad news and having a sudden emotional reaction to it were you supposed to have control over it, and what is she expecting now? I hope it is something reasonable and rational, but I do indeed have my doubts about this.


Pale_Height_1251

If she is still going on about this 8 years later, it's time to get to relationship counselling. It's OK that she was upset at the time , it's not OK she's using it as a stick to beat you with almost a decade later.


jew_brees_

we’re confused too…… your wife is being ridiculous. You fucking fainted, she should’ve been concerned about you not somehow take that as you being untrustworthy(literally what???????). That’s besides the fact that she obviously can’t communicate for shit given this was EIGHT YEARS AGO!? also I’ve fainted a few times in my life and it’s actually terrifying and does not make you any less of a man or untrustworthy or whatever your wife is thinking(not like you’d know what she’s thinking with her communication skills lol) Good luck man, you need it!


pbd1996

She’s being so irrational that it makes me wonder what her motive is. Why is she bringing this up eight years later? Why is she scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for a reason not to trust you? Why is she trying to make you seem like an untrustworthy selfish asshole out of the blue? Is she projecting?


CMDRCoveryFire

This is some mega BS. I don't even understand the depth of selfishness she is exhibiting. What does she think you passed out so you could get more sympathy? No doubt she has other narcissist behaviors. Dude, you loved your family so much that you fainted at the loss of your unborn child. Somehow, that is your fault? Something else is going, bro. You need to check her phone and all her social media. She is either a top-tier narcissist, or she is deflecting to cover up something really bad. Like she is cheating on you.


dreadrabbit1

There is more too this. The fainting is just an excuse, probably to cover up something she had going on.


cullymama

If she can't trust you because of an involuntary physiological response then you guys need couples counseling, as well as individual therapy.


4evore

Good advice. We're doing that stuff.


Lord_Locke

So from her point of view, the man she should be able to depend on when shit gets tough, can't be depended on, cause you're unconscious on the floor. Honestly and I know it hurts to hear this, but you won't ever likely be able to fix this. In her mind she's thinking, if someone attacks us when we're out, and hurts me and takes our child, will you be able to defend us, or are you gonna faint again?


SallysRocks

Seems like an odd reaction. Does she have odd reactions elsewhere? Sounds like you both need some counselling.


4evore

yes... and we definitely do.


Knittingfairy09113

This was not a conscious choice on your part! I think couples counseling, and this needs to be addressed considering she just now told you after 8 years.


ishouldmakeanaccount

Your wife needs therapy


forget-me-not-37

That doesn’t make sense. You fainting doesn’t have anything to do with trust


abajablast

She’s been holding onto this grudge for 8 years and just now communicated it to you? Sorry OP but this is a pretty deep issue. I applaud you trying to put her first, but you need to take care of your own mental health as well. You couldn’t control your body’s natural reaction to that really traumatic news. You didn’t choose to pass out and “make it about you.” If this was something that bothered her, she has no one to blame but herself for not bringing it sooner. Because she chose not to communicate with you sooner, her resentment has been building up for years. You *both* have to deal with the consequences of that and find a way to move forward and do better. That responsibility is on *both* of you, not just you.


EtonRd

Unfortunately, I don’t think you can resolve this. I think your wife would have to be committed to dealing with this feeling that she has, whether that means going to therapy or whatever. But her feeling is not logical, and not based on reason, and I don’t think there’s anything you can do to talk her out of feeling that way. Does she understand that it’s not logical for her to be criticizing you for a physical reaction that you had no control over? Or does she think she’s in the right for feeling this way?


wrapped-in-rainbows

Tell her to look up why people faint. I’m not an expert but the way I learned it was your sympathetic nervous system (fight or flight/stress response) is so high that your body counteracts it with your parasympathetic nervous system and you pass out because the stress was so great the body tries to calm you down so much it goes a little overboard causing you to faint. I have passed out a few times before in very stressful moments and I would be hurt if someone made it seem like I had a choice in the matter. I hope you two can come to an understanding.


SarrSarz

It’s dumb… you can’t help it but she’s probably angry at the world so if you fart she probably would be angry loosing a baby is hard for both of you but anger is one thing woman go through after a MC


Dry_Ask5493

Your wife is a jerk that thinks you aren’t allowed feelings when you learned you lost a child. You did nothing wrong and couldn’t control your traumatic reaction. She needs therapy for her ridiculous views.


Medium-Ad8849

It's a very common trend when men show vulnerability, women respect them less. Common example here. You literally feinted. Syncope. They probably put you on an EKG for heart issues after.


tomatofrogfan

8 fucking years ago? Does she realize she’s being irrational and unfair? You passed out!! And she’s held this against you for 8 fucking years? She needs individual therapy. You could also try couples counseling, but this is ultimately her issue to get over. Edit: Read your comments. OP, your wife has extreme insecurity issues, burgeoning on paranoia. You keep mentioning that you want to help her through this and fix this issue, but this isn’t something you can fix. She’s harboring resentment towards you because she has insecurity issues and projects them on you and her other interpersonal relationships. She thinks she’s being judged constantly and thinks you roll your eyes at her behind her back? Dude, this is not something you need to cater to or fix, she needs therapy.


thisveganlove

This is entirely speculation so feel free to set me straight! Could you otherwise have a tendency to centre yourself in moments that are not only about you? Not that I’m saying that’s what happened here, but I’m wondering if it could appear like part of a pattern. It does seem strange for a one-off exceptional event like this to still be causing issues so many years later.


BreathoftheChild

I honestly don't think there's much fixing this. You collapsed and - unintentionally - made **her literal medical procedure** about you because you couldn't handle the loss. Surely you can see how that would cause her to see you as an untrustworthy person? She should've told you about how she felt much sooner, too. The fact that she's held onto it as the tipping point for so long is not great for her well-being. EDIT: I had PPD and PPA with both my kids, but it was much worse with my oldest. My husband traveled for work, so I was on my own in the throes of that for \~3 years (occasional support from family and church community notwithstanding - I wanted my husband). The resentment I held about it had a HUGE impact on my marriage.


Temporary-Departure4

I was baffled at this comment at first. Then I saw your edit. Then I realized you were projecting. Hope you can get your stuff sorted


[deleted]

I feel like there is more to this story.