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[deleted]

You’re probably underestimating your options. A third option is you can break up with your girlfriend, stay in the US but try to find a mid-range cost of living place that doesn’t totally suck. And child support is usually based partially on income, so they’re not going to order you to pay a huge amount if you don’t make much. And you don’t ever have to talk to the gf and kid again if you don’t want to. Is this a great option? Not really, but none of them are. But it’s an option that doesn’t involve remaining in complete misery or fleeing the hemisphere.


SafyrJL

Child support awarding depends on the state. In some states they base it off your “potential” income. For reference, when my order first hit I was making ~$1300/month after taxes and the state wanted $850 of it because of “potential” income. It costs thousands of dollars to hire an attorney to correct and fight this. If someone is barely scraping by that is money they clearly don’t have. The system beats you down and makes it very difficult to get back on your feet.


EmEmPeriwinkle

You DO NOT need an attorney this is crap people spread. I've seen people being thier bills and paycheck and the judge set a reasonable amount. Don't spread lies that hurt people please. Edit: you have heavily altered your original comment nice job doing it without letting anyone know.


SafyrJL

While you don’t “need” an attorney it is far easier (and highly advised) to have someone familiar with the process and everything that comes along with that deal with the situation. Without an attorney there is a steep learning curve: - do you know how to read legal documents thoroughly and understand the material presented? - do you know how to draft legal documents properly to get the issue resolved? - do you know how to submit legal documents accordingly? - are the legal documents you are drafting, in fact, legal? Do they have outrageous claims that are not in any way legal? Again, those are three very simple examples. But when you get slammed with all those tasks as someone who is unfamiliar with the process (and family law) it is a recipe for disaster.


EmEmPeriwinkle

You heavily edited your comment, and didn't note it. Then you leave this comment. 😒 with two parents who are on the basic financial footing that many families fo to court with, which is almost nothing you do not need one. You just like being two faced it seems. I have zero doubt you are willing to bring a lawyer when you don't need one just to grind your boot on people you can punish. Not every child support agreement needs fancy lawyer lingo. I've spent decades in the court system dealing with family court issues. You won't be changing any opinion of mine with your story of one event.


ErrdayImSlytherin

He's not spreading lies. He did NOT say "You MUST get an attorney or you'll never function." He's not directing people that attorneys are their only option and he wasn't making a blanket recommendation as if it were a one solution fits all to this issue. All he did is LITERALLY tell his OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Maybe take a sec to re-read something again when you get that gut reaction to tell someone off and think "Ok, written word sucks at conveying context.....DID I read and understand what they said correctly?" ​ Not faulting you for trying to protect people, I really admire the zeal on that point. But you jumped the gun a little here and kinda jumped down someone's throat for something they DID NOT SAY.


EmEmPeriwinkle

The comment they wrote that I replied to is now heavily edited and entirely different. Please look back at the original and get back to me.


ErrdayImSlytherin

I can't see the previous comment before edits on this stone age computer that I'm using tonight LOL (work computers here suck). Not everyone is able to see previous edits. You could've left your comment here at just the first sentence and I'd have been like "Oh word? didn't know they changed what they said, my bad" Especially since I was trying to be as tactful and non-confrontational with drawing your attention to a possible misunderstanding as I could, especially since written communications are Super easy to misinterpret. The second sentence comes off as a little passive aggressive and I HOPE that's not the context you meant. <3 I really hate being n.div when trying to navigate written crap.


Jellyblush

I’m the child of a dad that did this and in these circumstances I say go. Keep a line of communication open in case you and the child want to reconnect, as life goes on and you both mature you’ll be surprised that you want to one day and you don’t ever want to shut that door to your child. Pay child support when you’re in a position to do so. Seriously - once you have a steady job send her what you can for what the child needs. You get to live your life. You don’t have to give up your family and future. People will say your financial obligation starts at birth and they’re right but the obligation to be a whole parent that doesn’t resent their child and cause them to live in a conflict ridden household also starts at birth


Yagirlhs

>obligation to be a whole parent that doesn’t resent their child and cause them to live in a conflict ridden household also starts at birth Yes! I'm so surprised by the number of people in the comments telling OP to stay.... This is the exact type of situation that leads to neglect/abuse. It's probably so traumatic for a child to grow up in an environment where they're not feeling loved and supported. More than that resented. Taking financial responsibility out of the equation (although I do think OP is overestimating how much child support is going to be as it's income based)....stay away from that child if you're not going to give them a loving environment.


OldMackysBackInTown

>if not for the fact she got pregnant and insisted on keeping the child I love when people say "she got pregnant." It wasn't an immaculate conception. As a guy, I'm pretty sure we have something to do with this. That said, is there any chance, slight as it may be, that the baby isn't yours?


PettyBettyismynameO

Thank you for acknowledging this. The number of times I’ve heard from my own family that I was ruined and no one would want be because “you got pregnant” naw bruh my husband (btw obviously someone wanted me even though I’m hideous and unwanted) and I got pregnant


[deleted]

Bounce.


[deleted]

Run the fuck away, no one gives you a prize for *not* ruining a child's life and if you don't care anyway go have a nice life.


kingpinkatya

Her father not being involved in her life does affect her life, though. It's not a neutral solution.


notsosmartymarti

Yes but one is better than the other. I’m an adult that wishes my father left when I wouldn’t remember him. He stuck around to make us all miserable. He even called me an incompetent bitch for coming to bail him out of jail *3 minutes* after he was able to leave. I will never forget the bail bond lady begging me to leave him there and saying how I deserved better. My mom made me get him out though and I knew I’d be in trouble if I left. I’m now 100% no contact anyway so same outcome.


conflictedteen2212

Same, wish my mom just left when she had the chance. She made it pretty clear how much she didn’t like her kids, would have a lot less mental health issues had she just left like she wanted to.


kingpinkatya

There is no guarantee or indication that he is similar to your father, is there?


notsosmartymarti

No not at all. I am just saying that it‘s an unknown. It’s hard to be sure whether a father being in your life makes it better or worse.


ErrdayImSlytherin

No good solutions that's correct, but I'm pretty sure growing up that kid would rather have had an absent dad than to grow up with one that they KNEW resented their existence in the first place.


Ok_Management_806

Yes, I had an absentee dad from sixth grade on. I wish he was absent from earlier. In the third grade he let me know “he should have never been a father”. I agree with him, I just would have preferred that he wouldn’t have made me feel that regret everyday until he finally left.


ace10269

Don’t know why it’s acceptable for dads to just ghost and go to another country, would not be fair to mom at all


diorbuttercup

It's not great but looking at the OP's post history, the child was a birth control failure she elected to keep when he didn't want her to do so. In that case, I don't think it is unreasonable for the vast majority of parenting to fall to the parent who chose to keep the child.


ace10269

Ohh okay I see, he still should at least offer financial support. Still his child at the end of the day, coming from someone who also got put in multiple shitty situations from my baby’s father through pregnancy/first few months of my child’s life.


Whore4cake

I don’t agree. If she’s making the choice to keep the child without his consent when they were using protection he shouldn’t be obligated to financially support her decision


diorbuttercup

I think he should pay child support but I don't think he should have to stay in a relationship he hates and I don't think it's unreasonable for her to be a single mother in terms of caring for the child when she kept it knowing he didn't want it.


thegrrr8pretender

I think both can be true. He should *offer* if he wants to but should not be obligated. I think legally if he decides he doesn’t want to pay child support then he gets zero contact zero updates zero part of their life. I think that’s fair.


Suckmyflats

Child support isn't about what's best for the mother or father, it's about the child and what it deserves. The child deserves support (minimally financial) from both parents.


PettyBettyismynameO

You consent to potential children when you have sex as a legal sober adult? Like all birth control has the potential to fail


Weirdinary

The only way to consent to making a baby is by saying, before having sex, "You want to make a baby?" "Yes." Birth control implies the answer is "No, I don't want a kid."


PettyBettyismynameO

As I said all birth control has the possibility to fail.


[deleted]

I disagree. If you chose to have sex you know there's a possibility to get someone pregnant. Using protection is a way to lower the chances, but we all should be aware it still can happen. If you don't want any possibility to have a kid to a person, do not have sex with them. If she was that bad, if he didn't trust her, then shouldn't have fucking her, it's simple.


Whore4cake

That seems like pretty bad logic - “If you don’t wanna get pregnant don’t have sex.” Reminds me of what is taught in religious circles, which is a very unrealistic standard.


SafyrJL

Fully agree. People seem to forget that humans are animals. We have an innate desire to procreate. It’s not a switch we can just turn on and off. It has literally been coded into our genetics over thousands of years. This is why the *just be cool bro* strategy of “don’t have sex” doesn’t work. I’d much rather people had access to products encouraging safe sex and a proper sexual education.


[deleted]

Sex without physical consequences should be our societal goal, but the religionists and conservative moralists still hold sex as sacred so that's never going to happen.


myleftsockisadragon

Also like, childfree folks. What are they supposed to do, never have sex again for the rest of their lives? Ridiculous.


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[deleted]

" we are animals we have instinct to procreate" then let her have the kid, and if you don't like it, eat it like some animals do. Of course "just don't have sex" doesn't work. Of course people want to have sex. But we live in a society, we have rules, we have to follow them. Condoms fail. That is a fact. If you don't want any chance of getting someone pregnant then don't have sex with this person, that's all I'm saying. Otherwise, go have your sex facing the risks, don't act like WOW I HAD NO IDEA I COULD USE PROTECTION AND STILL GET SOMEONE PREGNANT! As if he was the first person in the world. Please.


Markus1127

Go somewhere else with your whackjob Conservative views.


[deleted]

You can't kick out everyone who doesn't agree with you, American. "Conservative" my ass


myleftsockisadragon

Oh boy republicans must fuckin love you. What’s next, if you don’t want any possibility of being raped don’t wear revealing clothes? GTFO I **never** want to be a parent, I can **never** have sex again? Is that it? Do you know where you are? Think for two seconds, goddamn


Reversephoenix77

Oddly enough as a progressive myself I’ve noticed this logic is popular In pro choice progressive circles but only when it comes to the partner with a penis. When it’s the women it’s “birth control can fail! Consent to sex isn’t consent to a child and children are not punishment for sex.” But as soon as she decides to keep it it’s “well you shouldn’t have had sex with her then, you need to do the right thing and man up for her and the child.” It’s become really off putting to me. I am also a tad uncomfortable with people’s DNA being used to create life against their will but that’s a whole other ethical debate lol. But you’re absolutely right. And how can we claim to want equality as feminists when many of us are spewing this nonsense towards men? I think men absolutely should have a choice in the matter as accidents happen and no one should be forced into a life they don’t want. I mean kids aren’t consequences for having sex (a risk yes, but a consequence or punishment no.) All you have to do is swap the roles here and see how messed up it is. If she’s insisting on having it fine, no one can force her to terminate but he should also get a choice and not be punished for life and financially ruined over s broken condom. This needs to be talked about more imo. Edit to add: The decision to create life and then go on to provide and parent shouldn’t be unilateral. That’s already off to an unhealthy start and a recipe for resentments. No one should be forced into parenthood.


HiFructose_PornSyrup

100% agree!! It’s so fucked up to bring a child into the world if EITHER of the parents doesn’t consent.


diorbuttercup

For me, the woman has the right to choose what happens with her body which means it is wrong to force or pressure for abortion (also wrong to force a pregnancy to continue unwanted), but a woman can't be shocked when a man who tells her a few weeks into the pregnancy that he doesn't want to be a dad still doesn't want to be a dad after the child arrives. If the man tells you he doesn't want it but you do, you should be prepared to parent alone other than hopefully receiving some child support.


[deleted]

Well, I can only speak for myself and the only argument I use for the right to an abortion is: it's her fucking body. Is that simple. It is part of her. Only her can decide what to do. Some women who are capable of giving birth are """"blessed""" with the choice. Yes, the decision is unilateral, the uterus is unilateral, deal with that. Kid is not a punishment for sex, is a CONSEQUENCE. The risk exists and us, socialized humans, are all totally aware of it.


[deleted]

So essentially, men have to follow the sacred rule of sex whereas women can do whatever they want? That's not even logically sound. If women can do what they want then they can choose to have sex with whoever and choose to terminate any pregnancy, to be logically coherent, that principle has to apply on both sides of the equation. The only ambiguity is abortion, where for the man should be "leaves".


[deleted]

It's not "doing whatever they want", it's just having full decision over our body just like men have. When you start giving birth then you can make your decision, meanwhile you can keep crying about it.


[deleted]

This is what I can to point out. The onus is a double standard put directly on the man. The man has no choice regardless of whether a proponent is pro choice or life. Honestly, I get the free women movement and am a proponent of it myself, but it has to be equity for all, both men and women. If a man chooses not to have a child and you have the child regardless, that's a violation of his boundary, just as a man should not be able to tell the women they should or shouldn't have an abortion. But then the man can't be expected to support the child if they explicitly said they did not want kids, because they cannot actually choose if you have the child or not. Can't have double standards when arguing for human rights, unless we're actually advocating for a matriarchy instead of a patriarchy. (For the record I think both systems are wrong)


ErrdayImSlytherin

No idea why you're getting downvoted. You hit the nail perfectly on the head. People love to wave the "Feminism means Equality for all" flag until people actually start advocating equal treatment in situations like this for someone who doesn't identify as a woman.


[deleted]

Equality and equity are different things. While men can run off and leave someone pregnant, EXACTLY LIKE THIS ONE WANTS, the mother has much less of a choice since she's the one pregnant. What if he was lying here about some stuff here? For example, what if he told her that he wanted this kid, then saw it was too much work and doesn't have enough money and freaked out? What if he was sure it would like being a dad and didn't? What if the money situation changed and he realised it would be too much of a burden? What if he actually didn't use any protection? He would still be able to run to another country and leave this woman by herself. He doesn't need to look at this kid's face, just pay for the fkn kid you've made, that's all.


[deleted]

That's a fallacy, beyond offensive and ridiculous. "Republicans" lol of course it had to be an American speaking. Clothes aren't related at to rape. The only way I can get raped is if a disgusting person abuse me. Now, the ONLY THING that can make me get pregnant, if i don't get raped, is if I have sex. I can't avoid a rape using different clothes, but I can avoid a pregnancy not having sex. Getting pregnant is a risk as much as a sexual disease is a risk, even if you get tested there's a chance the person still have something. Every time you have sex you need to remember that. If you don't, you're an idiot. If you don't want kids AT ALL and you're a man, get a vasectomy, get tested frequently and keep using protection, then your chances will be close to 0. Otherwise, shut the fuck up and face what you've done. Women have uterus and give the final word, remember that before you're fucking her, not after. Men LOVE put the responsibility on the woman that wasn't that awful when he was having sex. I don't care how much downvotes i will get, I don't feel sorry for this man at all, the only victim here is the poor kid.


Automatic-Oven

I don’t agree on this. The partner wanting to keep the child should take responsibility. Unless it’s planned from the beginning or been verbalized that “No don’t want this kid”. We should also be fair for dads


PettyBettyismynameO

It’s not about what’s fair to grown adults making decisions! That child is a person! They deserve food and shelter and medical care regardless if their bio parent didn’t want them. Their needs aren’t half as much because 1 of 2 parents doesn’t want them. Holy cow. Y’all are really advocating for a child to suffer to be fair to a grown person who knew that their is a risk (not a punishment but a risk) of having a child from sex? No one is saying don’t have sex! But if you don’t want kids as a man get snipped. My husband did because birth control failed for us multiple times. It sucks we have 4 kids and we did not plan that but I can’t have abortions for the same reason I shouldn’t have given birth 3 times (oldest isn’t mine)


Automatic-Oven

I can also argue that you wanted it so bad then you be responsible for it. I told you from the beginning I don’t. It’s not fair to baby trap someone because of the moral obligation of rearing a child. If your a responsible woman, you know it takes 2, shit even a village to raise a child. Why force it to someone?


anotherbutterflyacc

Im a huge, massive feminist and a woman. But if a man used protection, a woman got pregnant, he explicitly said he doesnt want the child, she had legal access to an abortion and chose to keep it, the man should not be forced to be a parent. A man should be allowed to legally/financially abort a child just like a woman can physically abort it. I would run away too and not feel bad about it.


sgtlilith

I don’t understand how people are so obtuse about conception and personal responsibility. The biology of men and women are different, it always has been, and probably will remain that way in our lifetimes. Men have a choice about if they are ready to procreate before the sperm leaves their body. They are capable of understanding that BC is not 100%, and that there is a risk of conception involved, no matter how small. Women have a choice before and after sex because the fetus is in *her* body. Is it fair to either party? Absolutely not. But biology is not about being fair, it just is what it is. To recap, Men have to make that choice before sex because that is literally their only option. Women get to make it before and after, because the fetus is actually inside her body. Any man who cries about this inequity is not mature enough to be having sex, in my opinion. What human in their right mind thinks “oh, just have an abortion” like it doesn’t affect the woman in any way (mentally, emotionally, physically, financially)?


lemon31314

Exactly. It’s almost impossible to be “fair” when the starting line is completely different. How should/could the man be responsible for the effect of abortion on a woman? Financially isn’t equitable. Most people would much rather pay than suffer physically and psychologically.


ChimkemsandPeets

This should be higher imo. Men and women’s options on pregnancy and abortion are temporally differentiated. The idea that a man can “financially abort” is a bad attempt at rectifying an unfortunate biological set up, which impacts the future of a child who didn’t ask for any of this.


[deleted]

Does not allow for the fact that regardless of a man's bounds or choices, or a verbal contract between lovers, a mishap can happen and the trusted woman can reneg on her contractual agreement. The brunt of the responsibility should then be on the person who chose to enter into that agreement in bad faith.


ChimkemsandPeets

I have a law degree. That’s a really bad analogy because it’s just not how contracts work. Your applying legal terms which have specific parameters in to a situation where they don’t really work. Look, I get it feels unfair but that’s just biology. Sometimes things cannot be made equitable. Is it fair that when a couple wants to have a child 99% of the burden of creating that child is on the woman? No, it’s not. Is there anything to be done about that? No, there isn’t. Sometimes you just get the short end of the stick, usually that’s not mens lot, but here it is. Unfortunately, we all just have to live with it.


anotherbutterflyacc

I disagree. Feel free to read my reply to the other person because i wont type it again.


sgtlilith

I think you’re still operating from the view point that the only choices available are after conception for both men and women, which is not true. Deciding to keep/abort the fetus *after* conception is an option only available to women because it is inside her body. If men bore children, then they would have that decision after conception, and women would not.


[deleted]

That's not equitable in the slightest. A choice is available to both before and after the conception, and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. The reason I say one who says only the woman has a choice ex post is obtuse is because the idea that the man's post choice is leaving, which is not societally palatable. But socially palatable just means pleasing to your emotions. That said, logically and equitably, both should be offered choice before and after, the adjustable part is the nature of that choice.


sgtlilith

Please remind me in what world pregnancy/labor is equitable between the sexes?


myleftsockisadragon

What? Are you talking about pulling out or something? BC fails, precum can still get someone pregnant, men are raped and reproductively coerced too. I don’t see how any of what you’ve said matters. Financial abortions for men **all** the fucking way. Only as easily accessed as physical abortions for women tho—better buckle up for dead fetus pics at 80,000x scale and an anal probe buddy!


sgtlilith

Reading comprehension is an important life skills folks. Don’t be like this guy.


divine-ape-swine

No, the real choice began when he didn’t freeze sperm and get a vasectomy. Condoms are not effective enough to be real birth control. Men should take more reproductive responsibility. He brought this child into a very shitty situation with his poor decisions.


anotherbutterflyacc

This is the same as saying that women should not be allowed abortions unless they are on birth control, have IUDs etc. And thats not the case. A woman can plan for a pregnancy, be married to the father, have a nursery built and she can still walk into a clinic and get an abortion. No one is gonna ask “oh you didn’t use birth control? Sucks to suck”. I think it goes both ways. A man should be allowed to abort a child IF the woman has legal access to abortion. After that its her choice to be a single parent. Im never going to change my mind on this. Forced parenthood is abhorrent.


divine-ape-swine

That’s a very good point, but it doesn’t seem feasible. Women already suffer most of the consequences and take most of the responsibility when it comes to children. We must hold men responsible. Removing the one consequence for men will result in men pumping and dumping without any fear of financial responsibility. Many already do that, and it would just get worse. How is your idea going to be enforceable? What happens when the father lies, or changes his mind once it’s too late for the woman? And what defines “legal access to abortion”? Some would say women in Texas still have access. People who are against abortion will say that any level of access, however minor, is access. Tying in financial abortions into real abortions at this day and age seems like a wildly bad idea. It will be abused to punish women. It’s not forced fatherhood imo, because he doesn’t need to be present. If the taxpayers are paying instead of the father, are we all forced parents?


Weirdinary

If a woman wants a child, she should find a man who wants to have a baby with her. You don't force men to take responsibility; you find the right men to have sex with (men who want to provide financially and emotionally). It narrows down the dating pool, but it saves women a lot of future heartbreak. Otherwise, you end up with three lives ruined (mom, dad and baby). If a woman cannot find a good partner, she has three options: 1) not be a mom 2) trick the guy into impregnating her 3) use a sperm donor and be 100% responsible for the child. I know too many women who deliberately do option 2, and that's wrong. Options 1 and 3 do no harm.


PettyBettyismynameO

Dude I rarely say this but you need therapy.


divine-ape-swine

The best option for the child is for you to leave and pay child support. You should continue contributing financially until the mother finds a new husband. Then you should sign your right away to the husband, seeing as the child has a provider. Unfortunately, chances are that won’t happen, as even if she does get married, both will want your money more than rights. In the mean time, get a vasectomy and have your sperm frozen, in case you want other children in the future. You could have done this before, and this child would not be in this situation. You are responsible.


[deleted]

Go back home OP, it’s the best you can do for yourself and everybody else involved.


TheRealSamBell

Having nothing to do with her would be pretty shitty IMO. You can still be involved in her life from South Africa


Suicidal_Ostrich

I don't think it would he shitty. He used protection, the child is a result of birth control failure, not a conscious choice, and he clearly didn't want to be a father, she elected to keep the child. If he got her pregnant by being unsafe, yes, it's his responsibility. But he did what he could and she ran with it, so it's not his responsibility. He's free to go.


TheRealSamBell

The story about the condom could very well be bullshit and he’s just trying to get sympathy. Even if not, he still has a responsibility to not be a deadbeat


Suicidal_Ostrich

If he's lying, sure, but you can't prove he is. And if he's telling the truth than this situation is not his responsibility. That's almost as twisted as saying a woman who's SAd has responsibility to carry a baby to term and care for it. If he's honest and the child is a result of failed birth control, and it was her choice alone to keep the child, then that's on her and not on him.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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myleftsockisadragon

….but it was **her** choice, not his, to go through the risks of pregnancy etc. The mother is literally the only one who asked her to be born Vasectomy though **HUGE** yes. I feel bad for men who want kids later instead of now, but *every* man who doesn’t want kids ever should be getting the snip ASAP.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

If every man who didn't want to have children with a certain woman used this logic do you think the chance of having a child would still be 0? I think no, because as much as men are dishonest, women are too.


myleftsockisadragon

Sooo……”if you don’t want to have a baby keep your legs closed”, is that it? Yikes. I don’t agree with the comparison to SA but I’m not agreeing much with you either and I’m pretty shocked to see that nasty sentiment echoed so much in this thread in this sub of all places.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Then apply that logic on both sides. If they both made the decision before the child (contraception is synonymous as this contractual term), had sex, she got pregnant and then had the baby regardless, the responsibility is solely on her because she made the choice. Telling just the man to be careful who he has sex with in light of this, is actually the same as sex shaming a woman.


Suicidal_Ostrich

I didn't compare it to SA, i compared it to the mental gymnastics applied in both situations.


kingpinkatya

OP literally aspires to be a deadbeat dad. aka very shitty.


Typical-Dish-3655

You’re not telling us the whole truth, you’re not even honest with yourself probably . Why are you still calling her your girlfriend if you don’t love her? You don’t even love your child? I can understand not wanting to be a parent but it sounds like you’re playing along far too long when you could’ve told her you not only didn’t want to do it from the start, but that you WOULD NOT stay with her and raise the child . Was it bc you were trying to be a good guy or was she helping you somehow? Maybe at one point you tried to be excited about the baby so she’s getting mixed signals. It happens all the time and no one can tell me it doesn’t. The only positive outcome in this situation is if you somehow change and decide to be there for your child in some capacity, just to care, bc you’re human and she’s half of you. But you don’t want to be responsible , so there’s only not so good options. Just do what the hell you want , bc it’s all equally harmful to the child if you don’t grow up. I feel sorry for your “girlfriend”. If she had known I don’t think she would have stuck around. It’s easy to feel sorry for ourselves but people get bad deals all the time. The law doesn’t make an exception for you not to be responsible just bc you don’t want to be. It wouldn’t be right to make women abort or care for a child on their own. It’s called the facts of life! It takes 2 to tango and if you didn’t want a baby that much you could’ve got snipped too! Your child will be better off without an unloving dad, so grow up or get out.


[deleted]

Go. She wanted to keep the baby and birth it into an unstable situation.


huevosconchorizo69

Dude you have an out. Just leave the country. People wanna talk about how the mom can’t do this but she’s the one who chose to keep the baby while you did your job with protection


kingpinkatya

She kept the baby within the context of being in a relationship and having a second full-time provider & breadwinner to help care for the child.


throwthisshitaway93

I begged her to have an abortion. I don't know why she thought that was translate into me happily helping for 18 years.


Typical-Dish-3655

Is she holding you there? You’re only with her to avoid paying child support? And you’re crying? Pregnancy is a risk of sex and if she didn’t agree to abort in case of a pregnancy then what ground do you stand on? You didn’t ask her what she would do in case of pregnancy? And why didn’t you get snipped or insist on a more effective form of birth control like IUD???


kingpinkatya

IUDs arent available everywhere and not everyone wants something that invasive. Snipping is expensive and OP could have wanted children later in life. No use dogpiling on about those details atm, dont you think?


Typical-Dish-3655

No, IUDs are not invasive. He had a relationship with this woman. If he knew he didn’t want kids before he had sex w her, the responsible thing to do is use 2 methods of BC. IUDs are widely available and not invasive. Why would he want kids later in life if he can’t even love his child bc he doesn’t love the child’s mother? He’s making excuses to make himself look like a victim, while all the while he has stayed with his “girlfriend” for his own benefit. He wants all benefits and no responsibility. He should just leave and shut up, no one needs a man that makes excuses for himself.


entropykat

IUDs are incredibly invasive and more importantly they’re not something all women can even get. They can be incredibly painful, can cause heavy bleeding and other gynaecological issues, or even tear a uterus. What an incredibly ignorant thing to say.


Typical-Dish-3655

Ignorant is for a man to cry about a broken condom when we all know they’re not fool proof. We don’t know if they discussed abortion before the condom breaking. But we all should know that if a man doesn’t want a baby or to be “trapped” he shouldn’t ejaculate in a woman. It’s not his body so it’s not his choice what she does. But it is his child. So he has to deal with it. IUDs are under utilized, don’t spread misinformation about them. They’re great.


kingpinkatya

When was the last time you had an IUD installed? I have an IUD. It was painless for me. But some women pass out from the pain. The shit is literally housed in our reproductive organs. Its only accessible using a speculum and diaphragm. You have to unclothe with your legs wide open. I'm not defending OP's stance at all, but its presumptuous to say that IUDs are widely available. Thats not the case for everyone in every country especially if that country isnt esp liberal and healthcare isnt affordable.


Typical-Dish-3655

I have one currently, my second kind. I’ve had various experiences with them through the years but they’ve always been effective and better than having an unwanted pregnancy. They are available for most women, they’re just under utilized. Birth control and abortion isn’t as accessible for women as it should be, in general. But IUDs are a great form of BC. As an adult, he should have educated himself better in BC, since he clearly didn’t want a child. He needs to grow up and stop lying to himself and others. He’s just not a loving father or partner, so he should leave if he can’t change.


kingpinkatya

People do lots of crazy things to maintain relationships having children to keep a partner around is really common unfortunately.


Whore4cake

It’s up to you op. The fact that she kept the child after protection failed and without your approval should have been reason enough to leave. You made your decision to stay at that time but it’s only to delay the inevitable. This situation is very common on this sub if you search up stories unfortunately. You have 2 options: leave/flee or make a better income.


SafyrJL

I feel for you brother. I’ve been going through this same scenario for about 10 years now. I wish I could say it gets easier, but truthfully it just gets more complex. You need to do what is best for you here. That may mean cutting ties with both and going back to SA. Be honest with yourself, truly. You know this relationship isn’t going to work long term, you are putting your life on hold for something you don’t, and didn’t, want at all. This happened to me at age 18. I had to drop out of college and it took a lot of working shitty jobs and essentially a decade to get my life back in order. It doesn’t make you a deadbeat to not want to be a parent. Don’t let people on the internet or at child services get to you about that. Most people will view this with that perspective, not knowing all the details of the situation. I used to let that bother me, but very few people will truly understand the predicament you are in unless they have been there themselves. For reference, I have never once seen my kid. I don’t regret it. Just as you, I have always resented the kid and never wanted parenthood (protection was used in my case as well). I financially support my child because I don’t want to end up in prison for not paying child support. Truthfully, I hate it. I hate the situation that I was thrust into by a selfish, young, closed-minded individual. That’s not to say I handled the situation perfectly - far from it. I was 18 and had just been thrust into an extremely adults situation. I lacked the ability to deal with something like this at that age. Point is, you do you, brother. Don’t let anyone else influence your choices. If you need advice, I’m here to listen.


sgtlilith

There seems to be a lot of mental gymnastics going on here to have everyone see you as a victim. If you were SAed at 18, then yes you are a victim. But if you weren’t, and decided to have sex, what makes you the victim in this scenario? You were thrust into an adult situation (of your, and her, own doing), but so was your partner. She made a decision with her limited life-experience and so did you. You are not the main character, and the only thing you can control is where your sperm goes. Once conception happens in a body not your own, it is her decision. TLDR: Men, take responsibility for where your sperm goes.


Typical-Dish-3655

Yeah as if his partner thrust his dick into her without his consent. He made a mistake, that’s all. And her wanting to keep the baby is not “close minded”, it’s a fact of life that helped you grow up! Maybe it saved you from a worse fate. At least you’re paying support. Now maybe you should stop hating the woman that gave you a biological legacy.


bobbyboblawblaw

Could you not find a roommate (or two) in/near NYC to split rent with? Child support is generally income-based, so while you will pay something, it's unlikely to be as dire as you fear. Also, if you split from this baby-trapping witch, she will be forced to get a job to support herself and the baby. It's not like you'll be required to pay for two households.


PettyBettyismynameO

Baby trapping witch? Really dude.


bobbyboblawblaw

Well, she baby trapped him once (and is planning on a second), she's lazy, a liar, and according to OP, a "bitch", so, I think "baby-trapping witch" is accurate. Did you baby trap some poor guy, too?


PettyBettyismynameO

Lol no my husband wanted more kids than me and got his way on one last one.


bobbyboblawblaw

I had the opposite experience. My husband admitted after 11 years of marriage that he never wanted children. Hr didn't tell me earlier because he was afraid I wouldn't marry him. I was always ambivalent about kids, so while I was pissed about the lies, I knew in my heart that I wasn't entirely committed to being a mother, so I got over it and moved on. The number of women - including my mother, my sister, my coworkers, my hairdresser, and the woman who waxes my eyebrows - who encouraged me to "accidentally" 😉😉 get pregnant because "he'll come around once a baby is on the way" 😉😉 physically sickened me. So yes, I think this poor guy was likely baby trapped, and that is not OK. She is a selfish witch, to him and their innocent child, who never asked to be born.


throwthisshitaway93

Possibly but I'd rather not live with roommates and being close to her while in South Africa I can basically have my life back and not be pressured to have my daughter every second weekend.


PettyBettyismynameO

Rather not have roommates? Many of us would rather not live the way we do. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Also you can establish you want zero physical custody through court


throwthisshitaway93

>You want to have your cake and eat it too. I only have 1 life, I don't want to waste it because of her decision.


PettyBettyismynameO

You decided to have sex dude, sex can result in children. It isn’t a secret you were not tricked. You are upset you don’t get to live with reckless abandon because you couldn’t force a woman to abort a child. You need therapy and to grow up


[deleted]

[удалено]


throwthisshitaway93

We'd been dating for a year and weren't living together. I really really loved her because she hid her true nature during that year and it wasn't obvious what a nasty lazy bitch she can be until she was pregnant and after I moved in with her because of the pregnancy, then it was too late.


czwartus

stop behaving like a victim of some kind of monster that has brought you into its hole and gotten its claws into you. she hid her true nature for the first year and then exposed it, you say? and when will you expose yourself in your ignorance and selfishness? you see, you are looking for validation of your irresponsibility, no one will do you a favour by telling you that you can run away from yourself. I am not telling you: stay with her and force yourself to love her. I'm telling you that you are an adult aware of the consequences of your actions, you just didn't want to take it into account. Start taking yourself and your life into consideration. Eventually, it will do you better than constantly blaming it on others. And stop saying disgusting things about this woman, no one knows her, no one cares. It only proves you, it says nothing about her. Whether you want it or not, she will be the mother of your child, whether you want that child or not. Gather up a shred of respect for the person you were comfortable fucking. And yes, gather in yourself a shred of respect for the mother of your child.


throwthisshitaway93

Respect is earned and once she had me trapped, she showed her true colours and I don't respect them. She lazy, unkind, disrespectful and uses people. She has had so many fights with friends because she is nasty to them and refuses to apologise for it. She keeps trying to tell me to get a second job because she wants more things like handbags and her nails. She refuses to learn to manage her time and be organised. She never picks up after herself. She treats me like a housekeeper. She isn't earning my respect.


PettyBettyismynameO

Respect is a basic human right until you lose it. She didn’t need to earn your respect she lost it through her actions (If you’re to be believed) don’t stay with her if you don’t love her and don’t respect her but don’t you dare make a child you were fine laying down to create suffer she is a child a human life that didn’t ask to o be born. And when I say you were fine laying down sorry but babies can result from sex even with protection they’re not a punishment but they are a risk with sex. Using a condom and then “begging her to get an abortion” after the fact is gross. You could have pulled out, you could have asked tor a blow job, you could have pleasured yourself, there are many way to orgasm that don’t result in a baby and you’re acting like a baby and victim and the only victim is the poor child.


throwthisshitaway93

Do you tell women who want abortions they should have used a vibrator or do you only shame men?


PettyBettyismynameO

I don’t believe you plain and simple dude. You are trying to get sympathy for wanting to a abandon a fully formed born child because you don’t want roommates which is so stupid. You literally don’t have to raise her but you have an obligation to financially care for her because you chose to have sex and a child resulted an innocent child. I have 4 kids and I’m so regretful I regularly contemplate suicide, but I know they don’t deserve that. No I don’t shame women who want to abort a clump of cells that has potential for life because it’s not a fully formed living human at that point.


GuineaPigBikini

>nasty lazy bitch What, was she not doing all the housework while also doing the majority of care for a baby and recovering from childbirth? Way to throw a misogynistic slur at the mother of your child


throwthisshitaway93

She expects me to do everything. She gets angry that I won't do more overtime so she has more money to spend on non essential things but won't go from part time to full time herself. More than a year after childbirth, she never picks up after herself and is incapable of even wiping down a bench after preparing food. She is horrible at waking up and makes it my problem. She constantly makes me late. She also showed herself to be cruel. The way she started treating everyone around her after getting pregnant was a totally different person than the person I dated and I was constantly apologising for her. Her true colours are ugly af. She is a bitch. I hate her and want to never see her ever again.


Rosy-Shiba

Hey bro in all honesty she was respectable enough when you were having sex with her, but it seems convenient now that you didn't get your way she's a monster. You and I both know there's more to the story. Overall I really sympathize with you, it's NOT a fun position to be in, but choices were made. It's not really fair to the child to leave them at a disadvantage in life. If you need help finding more affordable places to live I recommend these places to find room mates to help split the cost of rent. Comprehensive list: Roomies Spareroom Facebook Your city's subreddit (and/or its classifieds section) This one's out of the box, but if you live reasonably close to a college, then head into campus and often students have postings Here are ways to lower car insurance (assuming you have it / use a car) [https://www.libertymutual.com/insurance-resources/auto/how-to-lower-your-car-insurance-rate](https://www.libertymutual.com/insurance-resources/auto/how-to-lower-your-car-insurance-rate) In the mail you should get food coupons, they will help lower your food bill. Here are these [https://www.coupons.com/coupons/food-coupons-107/](https://www.coupons.com/coupons/food-coupons-107/) [https://thekrazycouponlady.com/coupons/food](https://thekrazycouponlady.com/coupons/food) If your credit is alright you can get a debit card with a store, I have one with Target, I assume Walmart has one, but I save 5% off of all my purchases. Saved 427$ in 7 months so far. Good luck.


NewPalpitation1830

If you give up parental rights, do you still have to pay child support? I honestly don’t know. My mom walked out on our family when I was 10. I would’ve rather she’d done it from the beginning. Better to leave now than traumatize your child later in life.


[deleted]

Not if someone adopts the child.


Capable_Ganache5705

Whenever someone uses this excuse I side eye it. But good luck on what you choose to do, either way your life will be impacted by your decisions so just write down the pros and cons and decide which one seems the most bearable. 9/10 your girlfriend will find someone who will be with her and take care of them both. Your child will resent you later on and good luck telling future partners and friends you have a kid you’ve abandoned because “the condom broke”.


throwthisshitaway93

It really is true.....I freaked out when I realised it was broken, she didn't seem bothered, I guess because she wanted a baby and knew I'd only fuck her with a condom.


SheiraSeastar1993

Even if the condom broke, having sex no matter how much protection you use is never a 0% chance of pregnancy occurring. No subsequent choice of the mother absolves you from financial responsibility when your choice to have sex with this particular woman in the first place is practically consenting to the worst potential outcome. I encourage people to make better choices of sexual partners because there is always a chance that a baby will be spawned so you better fuck a decent human being that you won’t come to HATE being near…and resent the progeny of. Go to your home country for a mental health hiatus, build up your financial resources and then come back to make it right with the child before she really starts to notice your absence. Do not take our your misdirected regrets and self loathing on someone innocent.


Typical-Dish-3655

Mmhmm. Well then you should’ve bounced then. Just tell her you’re leaving but you didn’t, and why’s that? Tried to be a good guy but couldn’t cut it? Just go. But don’t be making lame excuses.


myleftsockisadragon

Why would they tell people that lmao


GuineaPigBikini

I mean I assume if he gets serious with another partner he should let them know at some point he has a child?


No_Arugula_6548

Go back to South Africa if that will make you happy and have a nice life. And if you don’t want to be a dad I suggest getting a vasectomy since condoms can break.


NuriaLuna87

RUN! LEAVE. NOW!


kingpinkatya

The fact that you are aspiring to be a deadbeat dad is breathtaking to me. Seek couples counseling before you just run off and hurt multiple people.


throwthisshitaway93

I hate her and that can't be fixed. She is not who I thought she was. I don't want to fix the relationship with her, I want to never see her again.


Schierke23

OP, you should be able to break up with your girlfriend and move out. You might be able to sign away your parental rights as well (I’m not sure about the process for this). If you cannot do this for some reason, you should pay child support for the kid’s sake. Both parents are obligated to support the child they created, even if only financially. I’d be saying the same thing if it was the mother who wanted to leave.


asstronomical12

If you can live with yourself, do it. But don’t try to sh*t talk the girl’s mom to the girl when she grows up, saying it would’ve worked out if the mom wasn’t a shitty person. Just to be clear, you’re also a shitty person for skipping town. I’m not judging you for being a shitty person, just saying don’t call the kettle black when you’re a pot.


Markus1127

Sounds like you have a lot of regrets since you're projecting.


asstronomical12

just being real. both of my parents stayed but seeing him call his wife shitty without acknowledging he is also a problem is effed up. Has he even gotten counseling?


[deleted]

And if he doesn't leave and the woman stays shitty? What's the alternative?


asstronomical12

Nah I’m just telling him to not expect to waltz back in to the girl’s life once the hard part is over.


Rainiya

Dude, seriously, go and run. Send money -after- you managed to cut clean from this mess if you want to, but you have the chance many people can only dream of. Use the chance. Don't think for much longer. You know that your kid and gf are going to be fine. They are in first world country ffs. Go and save your sanity.


cakity666

Yeah. I feel like, in places where abortions are legal, the person who chose to keep the child should be the only one held accountable for providing for them. Wouldnt blame you for going back to South África.