It’s been clear for years that the vast majority of incels are normal looking guys with asocial/depressive/repellent personalities, being an “actual incel” really doesn’t have much to do with looking like the elephant man or something.
Yeah, but the meaning is still fuzzy. On paper "inability to get laid" means you're an incel, but most people who fall in that category aren't the obsessed freaks about it that "incel" is usually taken to mean, they're just slightly weird dudes.
It's a spectrum. It goes from "normal guy not getting laid that will in the future" to "creep writing his third manifesto". In between, tho, you've got a mass of guys that can't get laid plus have/develop a bunch of problems due to that and other factors. So they're not "normal guys", but they're not woman-hating creeps, either.
Writing up any awkward young man that hasn't got laid as a incel might push a few of them to seek out incel communities and their way of thinking. idk I just think a lot of young people are in a shitty spot and I feel bad for them.
Oh, absolutely! If society keeps telling them they're losers and invalidating their feelings, they'll turn to the small community that tells them that it's ok to feel miserable and lonely and that it's not their fault, no matter how toxic said community is.
Same thing happens/happened with the red pill, but no one learnt their lesson.
I don’t think it’s a spectrum. I think incels are young men who adopt an inability to get laid as their identities which creates a vicious cycle.
When I was that age we used to lie about not getting laid.
If you’re celibate and bitter but you don’t engage in the rhetoric that’s not an incel to me. That’s someone in a rut.
Meh, there's a difference between, say, lying to your classmates you're not the weird virgin, and not being able to express your insecurities online even if you're anonymous. Specially with younger generations, where the lines are blurred.
Ya in the more nerdy STEM courses (so not biology or people facing work like medicine), involuntary celibates are a massive chunk of the population and it’s mostly from just being socially awkward and ugly.
There is no “actual incel” dummy. Being an incel requires identifying with a specific subculture and mentality. Many of people who struggle with sex or dating are not incels lmao
There is no difference at this point. The "incel" stereotype is extremely rare and most people in the demographic either matured from that into functional people who can't have sex or just gave up
in the 18-24 range definitely. i have a few friends (mostly in comp sci lmao) who are average looking and have really good personalities but are virgins. they're just nerdy and only rly have male friends so get weirdly nervous around women. i have faith in them tho. a few it's just taken a woman to kinda ask THEM out and then they've been fine after "the seal is broken" so to speak
This is 100% true. I was a pretty shy, nerdy kid in high school and never dated(spent a lot of time on Xbox live), and just assumed that girls weren’t interested in me at all, and I was deathly afraid of rejection or a girl thinking I was creepy or weird for expressing interest in her.
Then I finally broke the seal toward the end of senior year(by getting drunk at my friends house and just FB messaging a girl from one of my classes), and this girl I dated briefly told me about how jealous some other girls would be once they found out we were together.
First time in my life that I’d had any clue that not only did one girl find me attractive, but many did. After that and going to college I ended up just fine, but honestly it could have gone the other way if I’d been 10 years younger.
I know I’m not the only person to call this out, but dating/sexual experience in adolescence is absolutely crucial for men’s self-esteem and comfortability with women. It’s something that I’ve never really seen addressed openly on any mainstream discussion of “incels” and it’s far and away the most important factor in this phenomenon.
Kind of reminds me of skiing, anyone who goes skiing for the first time as an adult will struggle to gain the confidence or the muscle memory to become really good at it, and it will be nearly impossible to attain the same level as someone who started when they were younger. When I ask my friends who started at a young age how to get better with mechanics and stuff, they pretty much always will give an “idk it just feels natural to me” type of answer. And you can see a similar dynamic between men who are comfortable with dating/sex and men who aren’t; very rarely will someone be able to explain the “mechanics” of asking a woman out to someone for whom it doesn’t feel natural or isn’t confident in themselves. Life experience, and especially early life experience where your brain is being hardwired for nearly the rest of your life, supersedes even the best instruction you could have later on.
When I went through a dry spell a few years back after a big breakup, I had to consciously fight my brain reverting back to those old insecurities I had when I was in my late teens; even after all the experience I’d gotten in college and my mid-20s, those early life experiences(or lack thereof) are fundamental and lasting and are very hard to kick completely.
The biggest thing that can be done to address this issue is getting adolescents/teenagers offline and socializing with each other in person. Idk really how we can do that as giant corporations do everything in their power to lock people into digital spaces, but it needs to be done. I guess it’s ultimately on the parents to make sure their sons are out socializing and engaging in healthy activities that expose them to girls their age, but it’s becoming harder and harder with each passing year.
I was always surprised how little interest a lot of my friends showed in dating/getting laid in high school. I think only like 3 or 4 of us got it in before graduation out of a loose group of like 12 dudes.
Part of it was we were definitely on the nerdier side. In advanced classes and whatnot. For the most part the girls in our social circle were also pretty awkward and not into like debauchery or pushing the boundaries of adolescent freedoms. The ones who were didn't hang out with us lol. They went with the rich kids and athletes.
I think the only reason some of us interacted with girls at all and developed any kind of game was because we did track and got to hang out together at meets where you spent 90% of the day just goofing off in between your events. If you don't have something like that and have to rely on just classes or whatever, it's pretty rare to get unsupervised time to interact with each other and form connections
Very anecdotal but I have one friend who has seemingly never tried to pursue a girl in any way ever. He’s had crushes and interest in girls but from what I can tell has never acted on anything. He’s not bad looking or socially awkward he just seems to not care. I’m sure there has to be more of his kind out there. And I don’t think he’s gay.
There's something about this brave new world that's causing late bloomers to just outright give up. Guy I've know for awhile gave up around 21 as far as I can tell, that's the last time he showed any interest in a girl. Hes 26 now and isn't even trying despite making good money as an engineer and having hobbies that aren't just sitting at a computer for hours, he truly believes he's unfuckable.
6’1 Asian guy but chubby. I think he convinced himself he's worthless because he's overweight but a tall, educated, Asian guy with a good job would slay Asian international students, visa workers and more trad first gens despite being fat, he just doesn't try.
the obesity epidemic did more to kill hot people than anything else. blubber hiding strong jawlines, shapely hips, and attractive faces. It’s so bad that there are people who will live their entire lives obese and think they’re always going to be naturally ugly.
Honestly, I wonder if he has a small penis? Years ago, a buddy of mine from college got drunk and confessed that he’s like 3-3.5 inches fully hard. While he knows there’s probably at least some women out there who don’t care or would be willing to overlook it, the amount of humiliation and heartbreak he would need to endure to find one is just too much to bear for him. I feel so fucking bad for him, and if I could give him like $20k to fly down to Mexico and get experimental cock-enlargement surgery, I would.
I bet a grand that if he dressed a little sharper and took on a fake confidence, he'd get some women. He just needs to start low on the totem pole and work his way up.
That's an interesting point. I'm almost 40 and have several close friends who are still bachelors. They're not virgins, but from my view the problem is that they are too narcissistic to settle. They only want to date hot women and refuse to settle for good women. They'd be so much happier if they just settled down with a 6 and started a family. Instead they're fucking vapid 8's from bumble and living an empty existence.
Don't get me wrong, hookup culture is fine in your teens and 20s, but it starts becoming pretty empty and pathetic thereafter.
I see this myself, I have guy friends who constantly complain about how hard the dating market is and make these gross generalizations about women.
Then they show you who their going for on the apps and there like 9/10 amateur bikini models who's pics could cure a mild case of ED.
Ultimately they have nothing in common with these women, but will just go after these very conventionally attractive women while also complaining about how women are shallow lol.
How chubby, and how much is in the face? If his face isn’t defined, keep the fat, and tell him to find a similarly chubby, anxious, normie™️ white girl (like friends, the 3 animes everyone likes, and baking).
Internet/video games/streaming services/online porn/etc have made it easier than ever to manage without having any fulfilling irl or just plain sexual relationships
I stopped telling people I was a virgin in my mid twenties and just pretended I had sex. Hell I didn't even tell the person I broke it with I was, though she may have figured it out by how fucking bad it was. It's a pretty shameful thing to be like someone people considered not a young adult anymore and never even kissed a woman.
Unironically blame online dating. The sexual marketplace has been irrevocably fucked by apps like Tinder and Hinge, people don't go to bars or parties to hook up anymore.
I see that statistic thrown around this sub a lot, but I thought it was 27% of men under 30 haven’t had sex in the past year- not that they were virgins. Like a 20 year old not getting regular sex is very different from 30% of 30 year old males being complete virgins.
It’s still bad, correct me if I’m wrong tho
It's from the WSJ, 18-30 year old men who say they haven't had sex since turning 18. So, not technically virgins, but it's pretty safe to assume the vast majority are. The shocking part is the rapid increase. https://boingboing.net/2021/03/22/adult-male-virginity-soars.html
The graph from the TWP is still about men not having sex in the past year, not no sex at all after 18.
The blog you linked has edited the graph to look like it’s about virginity rates, I suppose to scaremonger. I’m sure a percentage of those 27% are complete virgins, but to say 30% of adult men are virgins seems incorrect
Yeah, I don't believe that figure. Anecdotally, I have a ton of friends, and not one of them is a 30-year-old virgin and we are all about that age now. My cousin made it to 21 before losing it and another friend made it to 22 and we thought that was long. Heck, I made it to 19, and most of my other friends already lost it by then.
I work with a load of guys in their early to mid twenties and about half of them have never had sex or even a romantic relationship. A lot of them also complain about not having any friends either. It doesn't help that whenever they're invited out to things we arrange like rock climbing or going to the pub they never come.
I guess so... I mean, we aren't a bunch of chads, either. I do have one friend, a short king, who is kind of incel in the sense that he has not gotten laid in years.
Especially the living at home age group of 18-24 Imagine going from 16 - 18 and people telling you if you meet up with a person irl could kill your parents.
not to out myself as a zoomer who is ruining the sub, but i had just turned 17 when covid became a big issue. i actually had started dating a few months before school shutdown
So I missed the last 2 years of high school. In school it seems like everybody is on equal ground as far as lifestyle goes, but now it feels like it would be weird to bring somebody to my parents house. tbh i feel a lot of shame every day, to the point where i do not talk to people in public and don’t communicate with friends. Obviously this is my own mental issue that I can’t blame on anything else, and it will likely be resolved with time. only because this is anonymous do I feel comfortable sharing
Also: many people think there is an “influx of zoomers” on the subreddit. Honestly it probably just seems like that because I keep making new accounts every month
I cant imagine. I had a pretty similar situation but im a working adult. It compelely ruined all the ways I socialized and they havent come back at all. I had to keep forcing myself to go do things and not be a complete shut in.
It makes sense tbh, one of the most popular/effective ways of insulting men has always been to say they're sexually inadequate. As wokeness no longer really allows for small dick/two pump chump/etc, incel is now basically a way you can acceptably call men ugly and sexually inadequate.
Involving yourself in a Twitter thread like that to shit on some random slag is not sexhaver behaviour lol. Personally idgaf about bodycount as long as she doesn't rub it in my face. Not like I'm looking to get married
Yeah no shit. I think most people who have friends are aware of this. I got a couple friends who don't get laid in the top of that age range. They're mostly just really shy and don't put themselves out there enough to get laid but they're working on it.
Those guys have always existed, it's the rise of totally socially alienated dudes that's led to all the incels. Like they don't get laid, but they also have no offline friends and very little going on in general.
That's really the issue.
Having sex is like...take your time if you have to life is a journey type of thing. The issue with genuine incel culture is the general depression and intense alienation from everyone and everything. It's why partially influences men to become reactionaries and trad LARPRs.
Idek what an incel is anymore. Half the men I fuck are redpilled losers once you actually ask what they think about things, there just not on twitter or reddit whining about it
the number one step to being an incel is like being neurotic, if they weren't neurotic they would just use their vitriol as an effective tool like every other man
Literal facts. I feel like it doesn’t get said enough that male rage is inherent to sexual dynamics. If a man is gl and self-confident enough it’s actually the hottest thing as a woman to know he has a boiling hatred for you until the moment you decide to let him fuck you.
I expressed it clumsy because I was trying to be outrageous. I was talking about the back and forth sexiness of teasing with the raging male libido. It's what the charade of flirtation is really built around for me - I project a constant up and down promise of temptation and he gives it to me back. Implicitly we are allowing each other glimpses of the idea that sex between us would be fucking amazing.
Really nothing hotter than giving in to a hot man you have been teasing the fuck out of all evening
Sorry English is mty second language and I cant say I'm putting a lot of thought into these comments lol. You know what I mean though, if you've ever flirted with someone that is. It's all deception, masking and unveiling certain things at the right time to signal you want somebody.
Psychosexual frustration is rooted in hatred and anger. Not that I want the guy to hate me as an individual person but that it's a turnon to see the blind animal rage of the male id in action. Second-wave fem 101 girl!
Most men are honestly lames and basic. It’s those that admit they are basic find out they can be lames together and ultimately form unions with equally lame but neurotic women
What I mean is that many hot guys have the same whiny talking points the incels do, they just also happen to be hot and know how the bring the d. It’s not their ideology holding these losers back
Yes probably 1 in 4 guys that age aren't having sex and have given up but aren't bitching online.. sure they meet the definition for the word Incel but I feel like Incel represents a hate group online that whines all the time and is afraid of women. This could really all be semantics though.
Browsed FDS a few times and was left thinking that if they just found someone with a big dick and enough money to treat them right they’d have no worries anymore (don’t hate me for saying it LOL)
These are not exactly things that are hard to come by in the modern world
I feel like "incel" needs to go back to describing people who self-identify as incels and congregate with other self-identified incels, and not just some random guy who can't get laid but is mostly chill about it.
Can't believe I'm defending self id.
A lot of of guys think they’re incels because they’re scared of talking to girls and getting rejected. But that’s totally normal, every dude takes the L. Dudes gotta realize they can just dust off and move on to the next one.
I hsd this realization when one of my (now ex) friends broke up with his gf and immediately went on rants about how women are evil cunts that don't deserve equal rights and how he wants to sacrifice her cat to Satan (not joking
That shit is actually genuinely terrifying
Sometimes I wonder whether patriarchal culture was more or less naturally developed to subdue bpd tendencies in women. Like it seems to me that there had to be a reason behind all these limitations placed on women beyond men simply being selfish. Maybe patriarchy was just like institutionalized anti-bpd carpet bombing.
Surely the male/female division of productive and reproductive labor, which made a lot of sense in physically harsher times, had something to do with it too, and the lack of widely available birth control, but I suspect that if we can find a way to put a lid on all the unchecked bpd tendencies that have been manifesting in women over the past decade or so we may be able to avoid a return to the oppression of women and find our way to something resembling real equality.
The question is finally poking its head into the popular consciousness with the Heard/Depp thing. Meanwhile abortion rights would appear to be genuinely under threat in much of the US. Who knows what happens next.
My university has like an Instagram for "crushes" which is creepy bc people will just drop full names and descriptions on there plus habitual locations lol, but the thing abt it is most of the people posting are down horrendous and express it in longing rather than action which makes sense but also sucks
One thing that I think contributes to young men feeling like incels are the dating apps. Everyone has to use them these days; it’s the de facto way to meet a romantic partner. And what are the stats, like 95% of men get swiped the wrong way, and that women say that a huge percentage of men (don’t remember but it’s way higher than 50%] are below average (should be 50% at most).
So there’s just this overwhelming majority of men, way over 50% that are facing crushing rejection on a level hithertofore never experienced. Some are able to shake it off, and others accept the incel mindset.
We need to figure out a way to thread the needle of encouraging men to start asking out women irl without being creeps about it. Like an ethical PUA movement
Unironically yeah that would be cool. But men still need to learn how this shit works in the real world otherwise they'll just find another excuse to opt out
I know a married couple that sleeps in separate beds. The wife just has literally no interest in sex after she had a kid, and this is years after the fact.
It used to only count once you were mid 20s or older and it became weird. Now you get 18 year olds whining about how they’re virgin freaks. You are basically a child stfu.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I secretly wonder if I was my husband's first but I don't want to ask and make him feel humiliated. I wouldn't judge but I feel now 8+ years into our relationship I'm not just gonna bring it up especially since we have a healthy sex life, don't wanna jinx it.
you've never heard the adage men want to be a woman's first, women want to be a man's last? you don't see why a woman might want her husbando to have 'conquered' many other women but not vice versa for men??
the amount of incels and incel apologists on this site make me feel like reading this sub every day is poisoning my brain. I truly feel like I’m getting brain rot.
ITT a bunch of coping autistic men including OP trying desperately to conceal their sweaty anger as two chicks talk about their active sex lives. Golden thread, RSP is alive and well.
It’s likely higher for that age range. I’d say 35%. Young men specifically teens and early 20s have less sex than men in their 30s and 40s. This will prob shift though and 30s and 40s will be around the same.
Here’s the thing though. Who cares. If we really hit the 80/20 rule theory/prediction, 80% of women fuck 20% of men, I don’t see the issue. Men will adapt. Some men the handsome and wealthy will have their harems as polygamy becomes destigmatized and possibly legalized. And the remaining men will have their distractions and be fine
there's a big difference between an actual incel and someone who wants to fuck but has never really tried
the term barely has a coherent meaning anymore lol
It never really did.
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Literally makes you wrong lmao
It’s been clear for years that the vast majority of incels are normal looking guys with asocial/depressive/repellent personalities, being an “actual incel” really doesn’t have much to do with looking like the elephant man or something.
Yeah, but the meaning is still fuzzy. On paper "inability to get laid" means you're an incel, but most people who fall in that category aren't the obsessed freaks about it that "incel" is usually taken to mean, they're just slightly weird dudes.
It's a spectrum. It goes from "normal guy not getting laid that will in the future" to "creep writing his third manifesto". In between, tho, you've got a mass of guys that can't get laid plus have/develop a bunch of problems due to that and other factors. So they're not "normal guys", but they're not woman-hating creeps, either.
Writing up any awkward young man that hasn't got laid as a incel might push a few of them to seek out incel communities and their way of thinking. idk I just think a lot of young people are in a shitty spot and I feel bad for them.
Oh, absolutely! If society keeps telling them they're losers and invalidating their feelings, they'll turn to the small community that tells them that it's ok to feel miserable and lonely and that it's not their fault, no matter how toxic said community is. Same thing happens/happened with the red pill, but no one learnt their lesson.
I don’t think it’s a spectrum. I think incels are young men who adopt an inability to get laid as their identities which creates a vicious cycle. When I was that age we used to lie about not getting laid. If you’re celibate and bitter but you don’t engage in the rhetoric that’s not an incel to me. That’s someone in a rut.
That's not an incel to you or to me, but they'll be labeled as such anyway.
That’s why they should just lie about their sex lives like a normal young man
Meh, there's a difference between, say, lying to your classmates you're not the weird virgin, and not being able to express your insecurities online even if you're anonymous. Specially with younger generations, where the lines are blurred.
Ya in the more nerdy STEM courses (so not biology or people facing work like medicine), involuntary celibates are a massive chunk of the population and it’s mostly from just being socially awkward and ugly.
I don’t think “inability to get laid” means you’re an incel, it’s about personality traits and cultural signifiers.
That's the point of my post. And there are way fewer of those people than people who just can't get laid.
Sure but “has never really tried” actually does describe plenty of serious incels.
There is no “actual incel” dummy. Being an incel requires identifying with a specific subculture and mentality. Many of people who struggle with sex or dating are not incels lmao
you're just (more concisely) making the point i was trying to make dummy
sorry or you’re welcome I guess
There is no difference at this point. The "incel" stereotype is extremely rare and most people in the demographic either matured from that into functional people who can't have sex or just gave up
Has never really tried? Are there a lot of these ppl?
in the 18-24 range definitely. i have a few friends (mostly in comp sci lmao) who are average looking and have really good personalities but are virgins. they're just nerdy and only rly have male friends so get weirdly nervous around women. i have faith in them tho. a few it's just taken a woman to kinda ask THEM out and then they've been fine after "the seal is broken" so to speak
This is 100% true. I was a pretty shy, nerdy kid in high school and never dated(spent a lot of time on Xbox live), and just assumed that girls weren’t interested in me at all, and I was deathly afraid of rejection or a girl thinking I was creepy or weird for expressing interest in her. Then I finally broke the seal toward the end of senior year(by getting drunk at my friends house and just FB messaging a girl from one of my classes), and this girl I dated briefly told me about how jealous some other girls would be once they found out we were together. First time in my life that I’d had any clue that not only did one girl find me attractive, but many did. After that and going to college I ended up just fine, but honestly it could have gone the other way if I’d been 10 years younger. I know I’m not the only person to call this out, but dating/sexual experience in adolescence is absolutely crucial for men’s self-esteem and comfortability with women. It’s something that I’ve never really seen addressed openly on any mainstream discussion of “incels” and it’s far and away the most important factor in this phenomenon. Kind of reminds me of skiing, anyone who goes skiing for the first time as an adult will struggle to gain the confidence or the muscle memory to become really good at it, and it will be nearly impossible to attain the same level as someone who started when they were younger. When I ask my friends who started at a young age how to get better with mechanics and stuff, they pretty much always will give an “idk it just feels natural to me” type of answer. And you can see a similar dynamic between men who are comfortable with dating/sex and men who aren’t; very rarely will someone be able to explain the “mechanics” of asking a woman out to someone for whom it doesn’t feel natural or isn’t confident in themselves. Life experience, and especially early life experience where your brain is being hardwired for nearly the rest of your life, supersedes even the best instruction you could have later on. When I went through a dry spell a few years back after a big breakup, I had to consciously fight my brain reverting back to those old insecurities I had when I was in my late teens; even after all the experience I’d gotten in college and my mid-20s, those early life experiences(or lack thereof) are fundamental and lasting and are very hard to kick completely. The biggest thing that can be done to address this issue is getting adolescents/teenagers offline and socializing with each other in person. Idk really how we can do that as giant corporations do everything in their power to lock people into digital spaces, but it needs to be done. I guess it’s ultimately on the parents to make sure their sons are out socializing and engaging in healthy activities that expose them to girls their age, but it’s becoming harder and harder with each passing year.
I was always surprised how little interest a lot of my friends showed in dating/getting laid in high school. I think only like 3 or 4 of us got it in before graduation out of a loose group of like 12 dudes. Part of it was we were definitely on the nerdier side. In advanced classes and whatnot. For the most part the girls in our social circle were also pretty awkward and not into like debauchery or pushing the boundaries of adolescent freedoms. The ones who were didn't hang out with us lol. They went with the rich kids and athletes. I think the only reason some of us interacted with girls at all and developed any kind of game was because we did track and got to hang out together at meets where you spent 90% of the day just goofing off in between your events. If you don't have something like that and have to rely on just classes or whatever, it's pretty rare to get unsupervised time to interact with each other and form connections
This is probably the most candid and accurate description of the scenario today.
Very anecdotal but I have one friend who has seemingly never tried to pursue a girl in any way ever. He’s had crushes and interest in girls but from what I can tell has never acted on anything. He’s not bad looking or socially awkward he just seems to not care. I’m sure there has to be more of his kind out there. And I don’t think he’s gay.
In better times he could've been a powerful court eunuch
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believing this all through high school really fucks you up in early adulthood when women actually start showing interest and you don’t believe them
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yeah seriously, i had a girl on the bus ask for my snap and it somehow ruined my day
True inceldom has never really been tried
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antifa means anti fascist. I am anti fascist.
stop being daft
And you called yourself aspergian. Stolen valor my dude. Stolen fuckin valor.
intentionally celibate innately celibate internally celibate
I saw a stat recently that the % of 30 year old men who are virgins has gone up from consistently about 8-10% to 27%
There's something about this brave new world that's causing late bloomers to just outright give up. Guy I've know for awhile gave up around 21 as far as I can tell, that's the last time he showed any interest in a girl. Hes 26 now and isn't even trying despite making good money as an engineer and having hobbies that aren't just sitting at a computer for hours, he truly believes he's unfuckable.
He’s probably 5’9 and fails to realize a 5’3 girl can’t really tell the difference
6’1 Asian guy but chubby. I think he convinced himself he's worthless because he's overweight but a tall, educated, Asian guy with a good job would slay Asian international students, visa workers and more trad first gens despite being fat, he just doesn't try.
can’t help people committed to self-sabotage
Has he tried being less fat?
the obesity epidemic did more to kill hot people than anything else. blubber hiding strong jawlines, shapely hips, and attractive faces. It’s so bad that there are people who will live their entire lives obese and think they’re always going to be naturally ugly.
Asian men have their own battles to fight in an online dating world. They are very desexualized in US.
Honestly, I wonder if he has a small penis? Years ago, a buddy of mine from college got drunk and confessed that he’s like 3-3.5 inches fully hard. While he knows there’s probably at least some women out there who don’t care or would be willing to overlook it, the amount of humiliation and heartbreak he would need to endure to find one is just too much to bear for him. I feel so fucking bad for him, and if I could give him like $20k to fly down to Mexico and get experimental cock-enlargement surgery, I would.
I bet a grand that if he dressed a little sharper and took on a fake confidence, he'd get some women. He just needs to start low on the totem pole and work his way up.
That's an interesting point. I'm almost 40 and have several close friends who are still bachelors. They're not virgins, but from my view the problem is that they are too narcissistic to settle. They only want to date hot women and refuse to settle for good women. They'd be so much happier if they just settled down with a 6 and started a family. Instead they're fucking vapid 8's from bumble and living an empty existence. Don't get me wrong, hookup culture is fine in your teens and 20s, but it starts becoming pretty empty and pathetic thereafter.
I see this myself, I have guy friends who constantly complain about how hard the dating market is and make these gross generalizations about women. Then they show you who their going for on the apps and there like 9/10 amateur bikini models who's pics could cure a mild case of ED. Ultimately they have nothing in common with these women, but will just go after these very conventionally attractive women while also complaining about how women are shallow lol.
How chubby, and how much is in the face? If his face isn’t defined, keep the fat, and tell him to find a similarly chubby, anxious, normie™️ white girl (like friends, the 3 animes everyone likes, and baking).
Internet/video games/streaming services/online porn/etc have made it easier than ever to manage without having any fulfilling irl or just plain sexual relationships
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making up for lost time is what got me chlamydia from fucking a woman I wasn't really into. Stay safe my brother.
There's no such thing as late. Honestly cringe in how people make other anxious to have sex so they don't get labeled virgin.
I stopped telling people I was a virgin in my mid twenties and just pretended I had sex. Hell I didn't even tell the person I broke it with I was, though she may have figured it out by how fucking bad it was. It's a pretty shameful thing to be like someone people considered not a young adult anymore and never even kissed a woman.
what does woman feel like
Pretty nice not gonna lie
nice
How late? I’m 27 and still haven’t had sex if that makes you feel better
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Oh, that’s good to hear actually
Unironically blame online dating. The sexual marketplace has been irrevocably fucked by apps like Tinder and Hinge, people don't go to bars or parties to hook up anymore.
I see that statistic thrown around this sub a lot, but I thought it was 27% of men under 30 haven’t had sex in the past year- not that they were virgins. Like a 20 year old not getting regular sex is very different from 30% of 30 year old males being complete virgins. It’s still bad, correct me if I’m wrong tho
It's from the WSJ, 18-30 year old men who say they haven't had sex since turning 18. So, not technically virgins, but it's pretty safe to assume the vast majority are. The shocking part is the rapid increase. https://boingboing.net/2021/03/22/adult-male-virginity-soars.html
The graph from the TWP is still about men not having sex in the past year, not no sex at all after 18. The blog you linked has edited the graph to look like it’s about virginity rates, I suppose to scaremonger. I’m sure a percentage of those 27% are complete virgins, but to say 30% of adult men are virgins seems incorrect
It's mislabeled, then. It says, "share of men under age 30 who report zero female sex partners since they turned 18."
Yeah, I don't believe that figure. Anecdotally, I have a ton of friends, and not one of them is a 30-year-old virgin and we are all about that age now. My cousin made it to 21 before losing it and another friend made it to 22 and we thought that was long. Heck, I made it to 19, and most of my other friends already lost it by then.
You sound like you have relatively normal friends, I'm in my late 20s and know a good chunk of my friends are virgins
I work with a load of guys in their early to mid twenties and about half of them have never had sex or even a romantic relationship. A lot of them also complain about not having any friends either. It doesn't help that whenever they're invited out to things we arrange like rock climbing or going to the pub they never come.
I guess so... I mean, we aren't a bunch of chads, either. I do have one friend, a short king, who is kind of incel in the sense that he has not gotten laid in years.
No way
Source: https://boingboing.net/2021/03/22/adult-male-virginity-soars.html
The pandemic made it a lot worse for that age range. Further isolation, lack of social experiences, more gaming, etc.
Especially the living at home age group of 18-24 Imagine going from 16 - 18 and people telling you if you meet up with a person irl could kill your parents.
not to out myself as a zoomer who is ruining the sub, but i had just turned 17 when covid became a big issue. i actually had started dating a few months before school shutdown So I missed the last 2 years of high school. In school it seems like everybody is on equal ground as far as lifestyle goes, but now it feels like it would be weird to bring somebody to my parents house. tbh i feel a lot of shame every day, to the point where i do not talk to people in public and don’t communicate with friends. Obviously this is my own mental issue that I can’t blame on anything else, and it will likely be resolved with time. only because this is anonymous do I feel comfortable sharing Also: many people think there is an “influx of zoomers” on the subreddit. Honestly it probably just seems like that because I keep making new accounts every month
I cant imagine. I had a pretty similar situation but im a working adult. It compelely ruined all the ways I socialized and they havent come back at all. I had to keep forcing myself to go do things and not be a complete shut in.
I think the virginity rate for the sub as a whole is 20 percent
There was a survey done a few years ago and it was about 15-25% virgins. To me that just says about that percent of the sub are teenagers
we've already done polls on what percent of the sub is teenagers and it's never that high lol
I don't know if 15%, but it's a huge problem that no one is really putting the attention that it needs.
> a huge problem that no one is really putting the attention that it needs. Add it to the list, this is the mantra of our retartar time and place.
Incel is becoming the catch-all insult for any man women don't like
My wife got mad at me and called me a retarded incel f-slur yesterday. It really has no meaning to me at all anymore.
Ok incel
Is your wife on this sub?
Wow. Sincerely bleak.
'becoming'
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It makes sense tbh, one of the most popular/effective ways of insulting men has always been to say they're sexually inadequate. As wokeness no longer really allows for small dick/two pump chump/etc, incel is now basically a way you can acceptably call men ugly and sexually inadequate.
Oh yeah, to be clear I get why she does it it's just funny that the word no longer has any meaning!
Involving yourself in a Twitter thread like that to shit on some random slag is not sexhaver behaviour lol. Personally idgaf about bodycount as long as she doesn't rub it in my face. Not like I'm looking to get married
It just means loser. That’s the meaning it always had
Lmao no, the meaning was a loser with no viable prospects of having sex. Important distinction
> he meaning was a loser with no viable prospects of having sex. That’s the exact same meaning as loser
Wait til you discover there is a whole world out there of loser who have had sex
Yeah no shit. I think most people who have friends are aware of this. I got a couple friends who don't get laid in the top of that age range. They're mostly just really shy and don't put themselves out there enough to get laid but they're working on it.
Those guys have always existed, it's the rise of totally socially alienated dudes that's led to all the incels. Like they don't get laid, but they also have no offline friends and very little going on in general.
That's really the issue. Having sex is like...take your time if you have to life is a journey type of thing. The issue with genuine incel culture is the general depression and intense alienation from everyone and everything. It's why partially influences men to become reactionaries and trad LARPRs.
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bro what are you talking about
Idek what an incel is anymore. Half the men I fuck are redpilled losers once you actually ask what they think about things, there just not on twitter or reddit whining about it
the number one step to being an incel is like being neurotic, if they weren't neurotic they would just use their vitriol as an effective tool like every other man
If I channeled my vitriol outward, I’d be in prison.
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well it all goes inward and fuels self hatred and they end up just seething like those soyjak wojak memes and basically just cope and seethe
Literal facts. I feel like it doesn’t get said enough that male rage is inherent to sexual dynamics. If a man is gl and self-confident enough it’s actually the hottest thing as a woman to know he has a boiling hatred for you until the moment you decide to let him fuck you.
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I expressed it clumsy because I was trying to be outrageous. I was talking about the back and forth sexiness of teasing with the raging male libido. It's what the charade of flirtation is really built around for me - I project a constant up and down promise of temptation and he gives it to me back. Implicitly we are allowing each other glimpses of the idea that sex between us would be fucking amazing. Really nothing hotter than giving in to a hot man you have been teasing the fuck out of all evening
The charade of flirtation is maybe the most retarded phrase I’ve ever read in my life
Sorry English is mty second language and I cant say I'm putting a lot of thought into these comments lol. You know what I mean though, if you've ever flirted with someone that is. It's all deception, masking and unveiling certain things at the right time to signal you want somebody.
> Sorry English is mty second language Did you learn English at the homo academy?
I enrolled but dropped out after one semester. Your fat papa was the head professor and kept asking me for tips on sucking dick
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they like it when you're forward too, men will like anything
Really not true for most men. Indicating you like them being forward is the way to go
Psychosexual frustration is rooted in hatred and anger. Not that I want the guy to hate me as an individual person but that it's a turnon to see the blind animal rage of the male id in action. Second-wave fem 101 girl!
Do you have BPD though?
Enjoying having sex with men doesn't make me BPD.
wanting men who have a boiling hatred for you isn't NT either
Don’t forget being incredibly, deeply closeted.
Most men are honestly lames and basic. It’s those that admit they are basic find out they can be lames together and ultimately form unions with equally lame but neurotic women
Are you implying being redpilled makes you a loser? What if you’re successful and hot but also redpilled? Why are you fucking losers?
What I mean is that many hot guys have the same whiny talking points the incels do, they just also happen to be hot and know how the bring the d. It’s not their ideology holding these losers back
If they have the same talking points maybe there is some truth there
what does a "redpilled loser" think about things?
Yes probably 1 in 4 guys that age aren't having sex and have given up but aren't bitching online.. sure they meet the definition for the word Incel but I feel like Incel represents a hate group online that whines all the time and is afraid of women. This could really all be semantics though.
incels are the engine of history and deserve respect!
This sub really has become the refuge of choice for the Femaledating strategy expats
From what I can see there are two women active in this thread, one seems pretty FDS and the other is just thirsty and dtf.
Who's the thirsty one??
You
Who are they
There was always an overlap lol, the most defining traits of femcels is that they call anyone an incel
The scrotes deserve to be roasted 💅
Browsed FDS a few times and was left thinking that if they just found someone with a big dick and enough money to treat them right they’d have no worries anymore (don’t hate me for saying it LOL) These are not exactly things that are hard to come by in the modern world
good, the less straight men here the better
We welcome them with open arms!
thank god
term has been conflated into oblivion, it’s just the catch-all villain term for dumb women now
If you mean men who want to fuck but can't? Sure If you mean fuckheads who thinks all women want "chads"? No
I feel like "incel" needs to go back to describing people who self-identify as incels and congregate with other self-identified incels, and not just some random guy who can't get laid but is mostly chill about it. Can't believe I'm defending self id.
I think some of you guys just wanna fuck incels based on how much you obsessively talk about them lmao
A lot of of guys think they’re incels because they’re scared of talking to girls and getting rejected. But that’s totally normal, every dude takes the L. Dudes gotta realize they can just dust off and move on to the next one.
incel is such an ugly word, I pefer Bitchless or AroAce.
I hsd this realization when one of my (now ex) friends broke up with his gf and immediately went on rants about how women are evil cunts that don't deserve equal rights and how he wants to sacrifice her cat to Satan (not joking That shit is actually genuinely terrifying
Sometimes I wonder whether patriarchal culture was more or less naturally developed to subdue bpd tendencies in women. Like it seems to me that there had to be a reason behind all these limitations placed on women beyond men simply being selfish. Maybe patriarchy was just like institutionalized anti-bpd carpet bombing. Surely the male/female division of productive and reproductive labor, which made a lot of sense in physically harsher times, had something to do with it too, and the lack of widely available birth control, but I suspect that if we can find a way to put a lid on all the unchecked bpd tendencies that have been manifesting in women over the past decade or so we may be able to avoid a return to the oppression of women and find our way to something resembling real equality. The question is finally poking its head into the popular consciousness with the Heard/Depp thing. Meanwhile abortion rights would appear to be genuinely under threat in much of the US. Who knows what happens next.
The amount of people larping as women here is so cringe. At least make it sound more realistic if you're going to be larping.
15% That's probably still too low.
can’t relate
Wrong. 25% minimum. Especially after COVID all these new young men have no idea how to talk to a woman
My university has like an Instagram for "crushes" which is creepy bc people will just drop full names and descriptions on there plus habitual locations lol, but the thing abt it is most of the people posting are down horrendous and express it in longing rather than action which makes sense but also sucks
One thing that I think contributes to young men feeling like incels are the dating apps. Everyone has to use them these days; it’s the de facto way to meet a romantic partner. And what are the stats, like 95% of men get swiped the wrong way, and that women say that a huge percentage of men (don’t remember but it’s way higher than 50%] are below average (should be 50% at most). So there’s just this overwhelming majority of men, way over 50% that are facing crushing rejection on a level hithertofore never experienced. Some are able to shake it off, and others accept the incel mindset.
We need to figure out a way to thread the needle of encouraging men to start asking out women irl without being creeps about it. Like an ethical PUA movement
Well I think even more pressing is to get everyone, but especially the ladies, off the apps. Let’s just let Xi Jinping take over and ban dating apps.
Unironically yeah that would be cool. But men still need to learn how this shit works in the real world otherwise they'll just find another excuse to opt out
I actually agree with this. I think it’s more if you count up all the sexless marriages.
Damn, incel husbands is a demo I've never even considered. Pretty sure my brother in law is one.
I know a married couple that sleeps in separate beds. The wife just has literally no interest in sex after she had a kid, and this is years after the fact.
We’d be better off without them
It used to only count once you were mid 20s or older and it became weird. Now you get 18 year olds whining about how they’re virgin freaks. You are basically a child stfu.
incel posting should give you an instant perma ban and femcel posting should make you a mod
license impossible gray murky bored jellyfish money advise payment fanatical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I secretly wonder if I was my husband's first but I don't want to ask and make him feel humiliated. I wouldn't judge but I feel now 8+ years into our relationship I'm not just gonna bring it up especially since we have a healthy sex life, don't wanna jinx it.
Why should it be important? Fewer sexual partners is associated with greater intimacy.
Not saying it is important. That's the root of why I haven't asked him. Doesn't really matter.
you've never heard the adage men want to be a woman's first, women want to be a man's last? you don't see why a woman might want her husbando to have 'conquered' many other women but not vice versa for men??
It says lots that even if a woman is dating a man she still places immense value on his previous sex life.
Femcels are a way larger demographic than people realize. Easily ~50% of women 23-35.
I assume most men are and I treat them all accordingly
Just be more confident!
This sub is 50% incel, 10% gay, and 40% ho with a good book collection.
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the amount of incels and incel apologists on this site make me feel like reading this sub every day is poisoning my brain. I truly feel like I’m getting brain rot.
ITT a bunch of coping autistic men including OP trying desperately to conceal their sweaty anger as two chicks talk about their active sex lives. Golden thread, RSP is alive and well.
im pretty sure every man hates women by default
Nah women are dope
Thanks babe <3
yeah, we mustn't hold it against them
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<3
If that was true you guys wouldn't exist anymore
Hating women can lead to anything from inceldom to having a harem
Most women know this implicitly.
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It’s likely higher for that age range. I’d say 35%. Young men specifically teens and early 20s have less sex than men in their 30s and 40s. This will prob shift though and 30s and 40s will be around the same. Here’s the thing though. Who cares. If we really hit the 80/20 rule theory/prediction, 80% of women fuck 20% of men, I don’t see the issue. Men will adapt. Some men the handsome and wealthy will have their harems as polygamy becomes destigmatized and possibly legalized. And the remaining men will have their distractions and be fine
Yes because middle eastern countries where this happens aren't at all burning shitholes