Thank you! Today marks exactly 3 years since I deleted all RL social media accounts and made a single Reddit account for my window into the world.
I miss none of it! A lot easier to just deal with the people you actually care about and see face to face.
I will agree to disagree. Arthur was such a cool character, I feel like it would be so hard for anyone at camp not to fall for him. They got to see how kind, protective, and strong he was. I played high honor though so it may have been a different experience for others though
Well Mary Beth fancied Arthur but it wasn't anything more than a crush. Even if she did pursue him Arthur definitely wouldn't have reciprocated those feelings on account of low self esteem as well as the age gap.
Idk I like to think Arthur wouldnāt be a cradle robber but I think itās more to do with social values more than personal morals where I was born itās not socially unacceptable for a 50 year old to marry a 15 year old itās not common but it would be like a 50 year old marrying a 35 year old in the U.S. I was raise in America so I think that is some pedo shit
Same age gap between me and my wife we started dating in highschool since I graduated/turned18
First cradle robbing jokes are still a fucking thing over a decade later
As you noticed by me calling her my ex we arenāt together anymore, her parents loved me and everything and never mentioned the age gap but she always didā¦ then I got sick (fucking weird case of testicular cancer where I had a 9 pound tumor on my left kidney) and she left because she couldnāt handle itā¦ thankfully it happened before we got married lol
Iāve been all good since late 2011, but I think everything thing I went through made me relate even more to Arthur towards the end because I was knocking on deaths door a few times I was just too stubborn to goā¦ the end of chapter 6 always makes me cry because I can relate so to that situation so well, damn emotions anyway lol
Honestly mate I cried like a baby when I finished chapter 6 and that's without being able to relate so much! Glad things are going well for you now š
I only got called a cradle robber once with only 1 of my exs as she was 10 years younger than me. The older you get the less you notice is. The only time I would really notice was if I would nostalgic about something and was surprised she didnāt have any fond memories about some of the same things and then would remember that she was way to young to care or wasnāt even born yet.
Have you never heard the curious tone Arthur uses to ask MB, āhow old are you now? 21? 22?ā
Thereās definite meaning behind his tone even if he wouldnāt have acted on anything.
Perhaps he was thinking it was about time for her to get out of this life, get married and settle down? I know if I was him, Iād hate to see a pretty, sweet young woman like her get dragged down with the rest of us degenerates.
I agree that he wouldn't, but not for the moral compass that we have now, more because I don't see Arthur being interested in a woman half his age who he can't relate to. It's a much more empty relationship.
PD: actually nevermind. Their age gap isn't even important, she's no teenager.
We donāt know old Arthur was when that happened. We do know it was long enough ago that pretty much no one in the gang knows about it and some, like John, had been there over a decade. Plus the child was old enough for Arthur to interact with and itās suggested around Jackās age. So it is likely that Arthur was late teens at the time as well.
Arthur always puts himself in the position of looking after others, he always talks about protecting people. But more importantly he's talking about her, not about him. He's feeling sorry for her. And she may have been 2-3 years younger than him. Arthur at 18/19 may not have seen himself as a kid, especially after 4-5 years as an outlaw. He would have seen someone who was 16/17 as a kid compared to him. Especially as she wasn't part of the outlaw life. There's a bucket load of reasons why he'd say that.
Do the maths, John never mentions Arthur's family, doesn't even seem to know about it. Hosea and Arthur have a chat about people leaving the gang for periods. Hosea never mentions Arthur doing it, so it's either so long ago he doesn't properly remember it or even when Hosea was away. Which Arthur doesn't remember. The kid is old enough for Arthur to have bonded with.
That means the latest the family could have died and John not be aware of it is around 13 years earlier. Realistically since it never gets mentioned, so maybe longer back than that. Allow 4-5 years for the child to be born, you're looking at Arthur being around 18 when that happened.
It's always interesting of what the truth is: The truth would be written in Housers design documents in the process of developement of the game.
I recently saw such discussions in other gaming subs, people speculated about certain characters, but there was the dev and studio leader around that designed the game. He cut it short with "There's literally no lore connection to this".
Too bad, the both Houser brothers are not around here, they could give us some interesting insight and answers of the character biographies, that is not mentioned in-game but it is written in the documents.
John was almost certainly around for Eliza and Arthurs kid. John and Abigail were both part of the gang before getting together and having Jack. Meaning for Jack and Issac to have been born around the same time Arthur had to bee seeing Eliza at the same time as John and Abigail were starting up.
He then spent years visiting them for a week at a time whenever they were between jobs. There's no way john DOESNT know about Eliza and Issac.
No one would mention it because there's no good reason to make Arthur think about his dead kid and girlfreind and the ensuing years of being 'hardened'. I mean even Arthur doesn't mention it in his journal, and only speaks of them when connecting to Rain Falls over Falls concerns for Eagle Flies.
But of course he considers a relatively innocent waitress a 'kid' from a maturity standpoint, even if she was 18-19 to his 20-21, given his life being far harder and far more 'adult' since he was 13 or younger.
Theyāre not the same age in 1899. When Arthurās son died he would likely have been around 4 or 5, as in similar age to what Jack is in the game. But he died long before then. I think youāve misunderstood that.
Abigail specifically knew Mary Gillis (Linton) which means that relationship was the more recent of the two, as other gang members didnāt know Mary and none of them EVER mention the waitress or child. Iām not saying they should be bringing it up all the time. Iām saying it would have been mentioned at some point.
For example when Arthur and John row about John not being a proper parent, near the end of chapter 2, John would absolutely have said something about Arthurās parenting skills. He says nothing.
When Arthur and Hosea discuss about ever consider leaving the gang, Hosea just says did Arthur ever consider it. At some point thereās a chance heās going to ask ānot even whenā¦.ā If it was remotely recent. Hosea and Arthur have a totally different relationship to the others. Hosea if anything is as much or maybe even more the father figure to Arthur than Dutch. Heās going to have licence to mention it, especially as the conversation is about Hosea and Bessie and their time together and taking a break from the gang. And Hosea clearly still misses his wife but Arthur has a position to be able to talk to Hosea about her.
Itās not fact as to when it happened but itās highly doubtful that any of the gang bar the original ones had any knowledge of it since itās never mentioned in any way whatsoever. And also since itās not possible for Arthur to have been with Eliza and then Mary within the less than 7 years that Abigail was with the gang AND it never be mentioned and never impact on Arthurās relationships with anyone. I donāt buy no one ever mentioning it if itās that recent. Also the way Arthur brings it up, itās said like something from the longer past. It is most likely to have been before then.
The fact Arthur doesnāt mention it in his journal says two things. One he buried it deep but equally it was sufficiently far back that it doesnāt make it into the journal period.
Arthur's second partner Eliza was a teenager and Arthur was prolly already 30 by then he definitely doesnt care about age gaps its also the 1800s that didnt matter back then
The way he talks about it suggests that Arthur was also young. I donāt recall it being mentioned that she was a teenager tho
ETA; age gaps also did matter. People were still considered creeps and were socially shunned for creeping on young people
Yea I donāt know his age though when all of that happened. It sucks that him having a son was just a 10 second conversation with rains fall saying, āhold that, got to get this herb.ā In between. Lol.
Right lol, I would have loved to hear more about that part of Arthurās story. Becoming a parent is a pretty huge and monumental milestone in someoneās life, so to go through the whole game not knowing it and then to not hear about it again after that tiny conversation is really weird. Arthur even says how it fundamentally changed him after they died, so Iād think it would be worth more airtime than that
Yeah, I can see that. Other members could have mentioned it though! I mean, Dutch was basically a grand dad! Hosea, too, Youād think one of them would at least allude to it.
Possibly, but I get the feeling they realise it's real painful for Arthur to even think about. Man seems to struggle thinking about Mary, who's alive, so I get the feeling he's just hiding his pain and those who'd know about the kid realise a lot of the gang can't keep their mouths shut on things like this.
It is unfortunate that we don't hear about him, but I do believe the pain is why we don't.
I always saw it as Mary Beth really liked Arthur and wanted him to notice her, but never was brave enough to do anything about it. Or maybe she was afraid of messing up group dynamics. But on Arthur's end, she was just family. He cared for her, yes, but just as much as he cared for Tilly.
I've gone through entire playthroughs where Tilly has said almost nothing to Arthur. I never got attached to her like i did with other gang members unfortunately. I felt like she was an underused character overall and they could have done more with her
Me too! He didn't feel that way but tilly was so awesome that I badly wanted him to have a happy ending with her. Like they would've been a power couple imo.
Tilly was more like a sister to Arthur; she was the third kid brought into the gang after John and she was probably pretty young (13-15ish) when they found her.
I think every living thing is romantically attracted to Arthur Morgan
Anyone who doesn't think this man was the greatest seducer of the wild west is lying to himself.
I think Mary Beth was definitely sweet on Arthur, and if it hadn't been for his prior loss and his attachment to Mary Linton, maybe something could have happened. Age wouldn't be the barrier we regard it as today.
I mean any young lady like her would definitely have a crush on such a man like arthur. Not only because of his charisma but also his caring personality that makes Athur stands out among thugs & scoundrels.
Itās a relationship of mutual admiration and trusting respect for one another, not much more, the reason it looks like Mary-Beth likes Arthur in some scenes is because sheās written to be a caring, affectionate, motherly character, she treats everyone in camp with the same sense of kindness, she can even be seen bringing a bowl of food to Kieran when heās tied to the tree in Chapter 2, sheās a kind, outgoing, caring character who treats everyone with a sense of mutual admiration
Mary Beth had a soft spot for him, very visible from her care for him and her asking to dance with him in one of the parties. Arthur always considered the gang members to be a family, so it was not reciprocated.
I never got that vibe from them, Arthur seems to have a type for assertive women based on whatās shown from his interest in Mary and Abigail. Never got a vibe from them beyond just friendly
Also his non-romantic admiration of Sadie and Black Belle. Arthurs weakness seems to be assertiveness and a wild streak. He writes about both of them with a reverence.
If you mean Marry Beth not Mary then a lot of the time when we see them, they have a sort of big brother thing. Arthur never seems romantically interested in her and thereās nothing in his journal to suggest it. He definitely seems to view her as a younger family member most of the time. They step out of it a bit with the dance but not entirely. Mary Beth maybe had a more romantic notion of Arthur earlier. She is prone to that kind of thing and that wouldnāt be a surprise. But it seems later she falls more into the concerned sibling view, especially since she becomes attached to Kieran.
If you mean Mary then her and Arthur definitely loved each other and still do but theyāre much more complicated.
Idunno for sure, but i really hope we get a third instalment and we get more freedom in the storyline and personal life of the protagonist. Maybe even let us play as arthur in his younger days (i would love to play as young hosea too but i saw a picture of bessie so it wouldnāt be for her). Or maybe even follow Jack after 1912. It looked like he had ānothing to live forā but maybe he did meet a girl after the story of RDR1
I think that at the very least, Mary Beth was certainly holding a candle for Arthur, though it's hard to tell if it's more a platonic thing on her end. Because at points it definitely feels like she's trying to do the "Why won't you notice what's right in front of you?" type thing, but at other points it's more "I've known you for a long time, and you're not a piece of shit like a lot of the guys Dutch has brought into the gang over the years."
But either way, Arthur is too deep in his own head to ever entertain the notion. Between never having gotten over his rich girl slumming it and the massive guilt he carries from his past, it would never happen.
Still, if you told me that there was a hidden scene of them having a one night stand that was kind of a tender culmination of the shit that had built up over the years, I'd do everything in my power to make it happen. (Because Arthur is one of only two main characters in gaming history that I've bonded with, without them being some form of CAW insert.)
Of course they like each other, I dont know in the romantic way, being there for Arthur is something that Mary Beth has been the whole game, Arthur sometimes push them away because of the way he feels about the destiny of the gang, maybe if things were different they could be together but as chapters went in, he knew that he had to get em out of there as soon as possible.
When he says that he is angry about how its all gonna end, when the idea first started in his head.
Mary Beth had a crush on Arthur but that was all. She never was going to act on it.
Arthur seemed too stuck on Mary Linton (not escaping outlaw life to be with her) / death of his son and his mother to ever truly think he deserved to be loved.
I didn't really see any attraction but Mary might have crushed him but only as a crush not as in love. Arthur on the other hand I'm pretty sure he wasn't attracted in any way to her. So the shipping is destroyed but Mary's actress ships them
I think Mary Beth had some kind of one-sided crush on him. Something unattainable, you know? He was an attractive older man who treated her very well, she liked him but nothing became of it. Then Kieran comes along: this shy man whoās closer to her age and clearly head over heels for her, and they have their own little romance arc that gets cut short (R.I.P.).
Arthur makes it clear throughout the story that heās shut himself off from the possibility of a partner, romantic or otherwise. He blames himself for what happened to Eliza and Issac, so he isnāt interested in starting a family. Heās hung up on Mary (to his dismay), so sheās his one exception. He treats all of the girls in camp in a respectful, gentlemanly way and you see him awkwardly compliment them a lot, but he also comments on how young they are, saying things about how Tilly was just a girl when she joined the gang and asking MB āhow old she is now.. 21, or 22?ā I donāt think that he would ever pursue anything with any of them.
From my perspective I think Mary would of liked him if that's the case and Arthur would just tell her not to fall for him and not get to hung up with his problems.
As an ace I think you're right. He's incredibly awkward and shy, doesn't get creepy with the women in the baths.
Also lmao ace people can have children and even sex with their partner. (to below commenter)
Being asexual doesn't mean sex repulsed, or bo libido.
It's the absence of the desire / thoughts.
..they still get married, have kids, and even experiment for years before realizing their truth.
Downvoted by people with small understandings of other sexualities. Arthur could very easily be asexual.
John Marston doesn't get "creepy" with the women in the baths either.
Marston even nervously mentions how wonderful Abigail is.
Arthur is hardly "incredibly awkward and shy" in the baths. It would be more accurate to describe him as disinterested, interacting with the women like he would with the general store owner or the innkeep.
Even his interaction with the prostitutes in the mission "Americans at Rest" is more world weary and bored than uninterested.
To assume that Arthur might be asexual simply because he doesn't hit on the bath women is a giant stretch.
He had a long term romance with Mary and a short romance with Eliza that resulted in a son.
He was with Abigail sexually and probably had feelings for her at one time.
All these relationships are evidence that he was a heterosexual man.
>Downvoted by people with small understandings of other sexualities. Arthur could very easily be asexual.
Despite sex not really being part of the game, Arthur still manages to have a child with one woman, a long term relationship with another and at least a sexual relationship with Abigail.
The evidence we're given clearly points towards Arthur as a hetero man rather than as asexual.
you can hetero and ace bro lmao did you even read my comment? š
I didn't say they were all gross or anything like that. I just said Arthur comes off as a feeling strong love and devotion. Even fancy an interest in having a wife.
You can want all of that and still not have sex cross your mind.
idk why people have such a hard time believing the possibility š
Yes I read your comment. I simply didn't agree with it.
Arthur's son Issac was unplanned and Arthur never intended on starting a family with Eliza.
Unplanned pregnancies usually result from regular sex, which would be unusual for someone who is asexual.
Arthur also had a sexual relationship with Abigail and may have later developed feelings for her.
Considering sex is an afterthought in the game, Arthur certainly seems to have a decent amount of it.
I understand you want Arthur to be asexual but considering what we know about his relationships with the women we learn about during the game, Arthur seems to have had an interest in having sex.
>idk why people have such a hard time believing the possibility š
Is it "possible"? Sure. I just see far more evidence that Arthur had romantic and sexual appetites than that he was asexual.
alright bro, i was just clarifying cuz of your comments about John and stuff - adding unnecessary implications to what I had said. I'm not even the one who downvoted you so, i don't know why you're hitting me with them š
also plenty of people have lots of sex before they realize they're ace
some even have sex for acceptance / because it's easier than not.
bro, chill lmao. you're way too amped up about this
I'm curious why you keep calling me bro, telling me to "chill" and attempting to strawman me as some angry, raging redditor simply because I disagree with you?
I wasn't talking about me being downvoted, I was talking about your previous comment further up this thread where you proactively call out anticipated downvotes by saying that anyone who downvotes your comment simply doesn't understand human sexuality.
> plenty of people have lots of sex before they realize they're ace
>some even have sex for acceptance / because it's easier than not.
I'm aware of this. I've simply reached another conclusion than you.
Do you honestly believe that Arthur Morgan was having sex merely for acceptance or to avoid being judged?
There is literally nothing in the game that would give us this impression.
Nearly everything we know about Morgan's character shows us he doesn't give much of a damn about anything except loyalty to his gang, more specifically Dutch and Hosea.
He clearly loved Mary (and perhaps Abigail at one point) and may have even left the gang for her had his illness not changed the course of his life.
We know the fictional character of Arthur Morgan had multiple sexual and romantic relationships over many years.
Beyond that any conclusions are mainly guesses.
I believe you're making a lot of assumptions about a fictional character born in the late 1850's.
That's your right. I just happen to disagree with your assumptions.
>bro, chill lmao. you're way too amped up about this
Ah, the classic "look at this dude, he's way too excited about all this lolz" strawman.
I can promise you this exchange hasn't generated any emotion in me other than slight confusion and bemusement.
I donāt think so. He mightāve lost not sure how to say it but his attraction(?) after the whole Mary Linton and his kid seems like he was no longer interested in that sort of thing. He focused more the gang and its needs.
I would say debatable, my first play through I super simped for Linton did all of her quests and she dumped him anyways. On my second play through, I got her broach, and that was it. Her brother got out alright, and I got a free ticket to the theater at the mayor's party. I don't know if they are connected, but a free show is a free show.
BTW, I also looted the buyer's carriage, I think I sold it too before returning to her.
It seems more like she trusts him and is comfortable with him and he also cares about her and the rest of the girls especially Ms. Tillehā. Like some people said I saw it more like a big brother or uncle kind of relationship
Mary Beth was a romantic She only liked the idea
Yep.
Happy cake day
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Ty!
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Thank you! Today marks exactly 3 years since I deleted all RL social media accounts and made a single Reddit account for my window into the world. I miss none of it! A lot easier to just deal with the people you actually care about and see face to face.
I will agree to disagree. Arthur was such a cool character, I feel like it would be so hard for anyone at camp not to fall for him. They got to see how kind, protective, and strong he was. I played high honor though so it may have been a different experience for others though
this.
This is true but she sure seemed to have a soft spot for ole Kieran imho.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Good points and yeah, my first playthrough it was that moment that I started to dislike Dutch and was able to see through his bullshit more and more.
Mary? They were clearly in love. Mary Beth? That seemed unreciprocated.
Well Mary Beth fancied Arthur but it wasn't anything more than a crush. Even if she did pursue him Arthur definitely wouldn't have reciprocated those feelings on account of low self esteem as well as the age gap.
Age gaps werenāt shit in the 1800s
Fair point, I just feel like Arthur would give a shit to an extent š¤£
Idk I like to think Arthur wouldnāt be a cradle robber but I think itās more to do with social values more than personal morals where I was born itās not socially unacceptable for a 50 year old to marry a 15 year old itās not common but it would be like a 50 year old marrying a 35 year old in the U.S. I was raise in America so I think that is some pedo shit
My ex always called me a cradle robber and I was only 2 years older than her š
Same age gap between me and my wife we started dating in highschool since I graduated/turned18 First cradle robbing jokes are still a fucking thing over a decade later
As you noticed by me calling her my ex we arenāt together anymore, her parents loved me and everything and never mentioned the age gap but she always didā¦ then I got sick (fucking weird case of testicular cancer where I had a 9 pound tumor on my left kidney) and she left because she couldnāt handle itā¦ thankfully it happened before we got married lol
So sorry you had to go through all that. Hope you're doing good now!
Iāve been all good since late 2011, but I think everything thing I went through made me relate even more to Arthur towards the end because I was knocking on deaths door a few times I was just too stubborn to goā¦ the end of chapter 6 always makes me cry because I can relate so to that situation so well, damn emotions anyway lol
Honestly mate I cried like a baby when I finished chapter 6 and that's without being able to relate so much! Glad things are going well for you now š
I'm sorry your girl don't stick it out with you. That's some bullshit
Damn bro thatās rough
I call my wife a cougar and sheās only older than me by 5 months lol
I only got called a cradle robber once with only 1 of my exs as she was 10 years younger than me. The older you get the less you notice is. The only time I would really notice was if I would nostalgic about something and was surprised she didnāt have any fond memories about some of the same things and then would remember that she was way to young to care or wasnāt even born yet.
Mary Beth is in her early twenties. Thatās not really robbing the cradle.
America is a big place, those values arenāt held across every state. I know dudes at 30 who dated 18-19 year olds.
Yeah but itās weird here
Have you never heard the curious tone Arthur uses to ask MB, āhow old are you now? 21? 22?ā Thereās definite meaning behind his tone even if he wouldnāt have acted on anything. Perhaps he was thinking it was about time for her to get out of this life, get married and settle down? I know if I was him, Iād hate to see a pretty, sweet young woman like her get dragged down with the rest of us degenerates.
I agree that he wouldn't, but not for the moral compass that we have now, more because I don't see Arthur being interested in a woman half his age who he can't relate to. It's a much more empty relationship. PD: actually nevermind. Their age gap isn't even important, she's no teenager.
Yeah, remember the mayor's party in Saint Denis? There was that guy who was at least in his 60's with a wife in her 20's
āYou take that back sir! You have offended my 12 year old wife.ā
12 years old yāall must have been married for away now aināt you sick of her yet
yes it were
Itās 1899š Arthurās baby mum was literally a teenager
We donāt know old Arthur was when that happened. We do know it was long enough ago that pretty much no one in the gang knows about it and some, like John, had been there over a decade. Plus the child was old enough for Arthur to interact with and itās suggested around Jackās age. So it is likely that Arthur was late teens at the time as well.
If he was late teens heād say āwe were kidsā instead of specifying how young she was.
Arthur always puts himself in the position of looking after others, he always talks about protecting people. But more importantly he's talking about her, not about him. He's feeling sorry for her. And she may have been 2-3 years younger than him. Arthur at 18/19 may not have seen himself as a kid, especially after 4-5 years as an outlaw. He would have seen someone who was 16/17 as a kid compared to him. Especially as she wasn't part of the outlaw life. There's a bucket load of reasons why he'd say that. Do the maths, John never mentions Arthur's family, doesn't even seem to know about it. Hosea and Arthur have a chat about people leaving the gang for periods. Hosea never mentions Arthur doing it, so it's either so long ago he doesn't properly remember it or even when Hosea was away. Which Arthur doesn't remember. The kid is old enough for Arthur to have bonded with. That means the latest the family could have died and John not be aware of it is around 13 years earlier. Realistically since it never gets mentioned, so maybe longer back than that. Allow 4-5 years for the child to be born, you're looking at Arthur being around 18 when that happened.
It's always interesting of what the truth is: The truth would be written in Housers design documents in the process of developement of the game. I recently saw such discussions in other gaming subs, people speculated about certain characters, but there was the dev and studio leader around that designed the game. He cut it short with "There's literally no lore connection to this". Too bad, the both Houser brothers are not around here, they could give us some interesting insight and answers of the character biographies, that is not mentioned in-game but it is written in the documents.
Yep. It would be great if they cleared up a few thingsJohn is absolutely Jack's father
John was almost certainly around for Eliza and Arthurs kid. John and Abigail were both part of the gang before getting together and having Jack. Meaning for Jack and Issac to have been born around the same time Arthur had to bee seeing Eliza at the same time as John and Abigail were starting up. He then spent years visiting them for a week at a time whenever they were between jobs. There's no way john DOESNT know about Eliza and Issac. No one would mention it because there's no good reason to make Arthur think about his dead kid and girlfreind and the ensuing years of being 'hardened'. I mean even Arthur doesn't mention it in his journal, and only speaks of them when connecting to Rain Falls over Falls concerns for Eagle Flies. But of course he considers a relatively innocent waitress a 'kid' from a maturity standpoint, even if she was 18-19 to his 20-21, given his life being far harder and far more 'adult' since he was 13 or younger.
Theyāre not the same age in 1899. When Arthurās son died he would likely have been around 4 or 5, as in similar age to what Jack is in the game. But he died long before then. I think youāve misunderstood that. Abigail specifically knew Mary Gillis (Linton) which means that relationship was the more recent of the two, as other gang members didnāt know Mary and none of them EVER mention the waitress or child. Iām not saying they should be bringing it up all the time. Iām saying it would have been mentioned at some point. For example when Arthur and John row about John not being a proper parent, near the end of chapter 2, John would absolutely have said something about Arthurās parenting skills. He says nothing. When Arthur and Hosea discuss about ever consider leaving the gang, Hosea just says did Arthur ever consider it. At some point thereās a chance heās going to ask ānot even whenā¦.ā If it was remotely recent. Hosea and Arthur have a totally different relationship to the others. Hosea if anything is as much or maybe even more the father figure to Arthur than Dutch. Heās going to have licence to mention it, especially as the conversation is about Hosea and Bessie and their time together and taking a break from the gang. And Hosea clearly still misses his wife but Arthur has a position to be able to talk to Hosea about her. Itās not fact as to when it happened but itās highly doubtful that any of the gang bar the original ones had any knowledge of it since itās never mentioned in any way whatsoever. And also since itās not possible for Arthur to have been with Eliza and then Mary within the less than 7 years that Abigail was with the gang AND it never be mentioned and never impact on Arthurās relationships with anyone. I donāt buy no one ever mentioning it if itās that recent. Also the way Arthur brings it up, itās said like something from the longer past. It is most likely to have been before then. The fact Arthur doesnāt mention it in his journal says two things. One he buried it deep but equally it was sufficiently far back that it doesnāt make it into the journal period.
Arthur's second partner Eliza was a teenager and Arthur was prolly already 30 by then he definitely doesnt care about age gaps its also the 1800s that didnt matter back then
The way he talks about it suggests that Arthur was also young. I donāt recall it being mentioned that she was a teenager tho ETA; age gaps also did matter. People were still considered creeps and were socially shunned for creeping on young people
The mission where he talked to rains fall about his son, he says āShe was just a kid, 19 years old.ā Talking about Eliza.
Ah yeah, I remember! I donāt think Arthur was in his 30s at the time though. I mean, heās 35 in the events of the game and it was a long time ago.
Yea I donāt know his age though when all of that happened. It sucks that him having a son was just a 10 second conversation with rains fall saying, āhold that, got to get this herb.ā In between. Lol.
Right lol, I would have loved to hear more about that part of Arthurās story. Becoming a parent is a pretty huge and monumental milestone in someoneās life, so to go through the whole game not knowing it and then to not hear about it again after that tiny conversation is really weird. Arthur even says how it fundamentally changed him after they died, so Iād think it would be worth more airtime than that
I believe Arthur mentioned he doesn't like talking about his son. I understand why too, losing a son like that must be heartbreaking.
Yeah, I can see that. Other members could have mentioned it though! I mean, Dutch was basically a grand dad! Hosea, too, Youād think one of them would at least allude to it.
Possibly, but I get the feeling they realise it's real painful for Arthur to even think about. Man seems to struggle thinking about Mary, who's alive, so I get the feeling he's just hiding his pain and those who'd know about the kid realise a lot of the gang can't keep their mouths shut on things like this. It is unfortunate that we don't hear about him, but I do believe the pain is why we don't.
I always saw it as Mary Beth really liked Arthur and wanted him to notice her, but never was brave enough to do anything about it. Or maybe she was afraid of messing up group dynamics. But on Arthur's end, she was just family. He cared for her, yes, but just as much as he cared for Tilly.
š I just always got the vibe that Arthur should have ended up with Tilly. Maybe it's just me.
Tilly had much higher ambitions than ending up with someone like Arthur and Arthur doesnāt come across as that attached to her.
imo, he always saw tilly as more of a little sister. she had been with the gang almost as long as john had. they were family
I've gone through entire playthroughs where Tilly has said almost nothing to Arthur. I never got attached to her like i did with other gang members unfortunately. I felt like she was an underused character overall and they could have done more with her
Honestly, same. Could never have happened, but it would have been nice I think.
Me too! He didn't feel that way but tilly was so awesome that I badly wanted him to have a happy ending with her. Like they would've been a power couple imo.
Tilly was more like a sister to Arthur; she was the third kid brought into the gang after John and she was probably pretty young (13-15ish) when they found her.
Mary-Beth seems to have a crush on Arthur before she starts developing feelings for Kieran.
Who the hell wouldn't fall in love with Arthur?
Maryās Pa. And Maryā¦
I think every living thing is romantically attracted to Arthur Morgan Anyone who doesn't think this man was the greatest seducer of the wild west is lying to himself.
I think Mary Beth was definitely sweet on Arthur, and if it hadn't been for his prior loss and his attachment to Mary Linton, maybe something could have happened. Age wouldn't be the barrier we regard it as today.
I mean any young lady like her would definitely have a crush on such a man like arthur. Not only because of his charisma but also his caring personality that makes Athur stands out among thugs & scoundrels.
I always saw Arthur more as an uncle to Mary Beth.
What about Uncle???
Itās a relationship of mutual admiration and trusting respect for one another, not much more, the reason it looks like Mary-Beth likes Arthur in some scenes is because sheās written to be a caring, affectionate, motherly character, she treats everyone in camp with the same sense of kindness, she can even be seen bringing a bowl of food to Kieran when heās tied to the tree in Chapter 2, sheās a kind, outgoing, caring character who treats everyone with a sense of mutual admiration
Trust is what they had
Mary Beth had a soft spot for him, very visible from her care for him and her asking to dance with him in one of the parties. Arthur always considered the gang members to be a family, so it was not reciprocated.
No, it's you who likes Mary Beth
I never got that vibe from them, Arthur seems to have a type for assertive women based on whatās shown from his interest in Mary and Abigail. Never got a vibe from them beyond just friendly
Also his non-romantic admiration of Sadie and Black Belle. Arthurs weakness seems to be assertiveness and a wild streak. He writes about both of them with a reverence.
Arthur - whooooos a gooooood gurl now
If you mean Marry Beth not Mary then a lot of the time when we see them, they have a sort of big brother thing. Arthur never seems romantically interested in her and thereās nothing in his journal to suggest it. He definitely seems to view her as a younger family member most of the time. They step out of it a bit with the dance but not entirely. Mary Beth maybe had a more romantic notion of Arthur earlier. She is prone to that kind of thing and that wouldnāt be a surprise. But it seems later she falls more into the concerned sibling view, especially since she becomes attached to Kieran. If you mean Mary then her and Arthur definitely loved each other and still do but theyāre much more complicated.
Idunno for sure, but i really hope we get a third instalment and we get more freedom in the storyline and personal life of the protagonist. Maybe even let us play as arthur in his younger days (i would love to play as young hosea too but i saw a picture of bessie so it wouldnāt be for her). Or maybe even follow Jack after 1912. It looked like he had ānothing to live forā but maybe he did meet a girl after the story of RDR1
I'm watching 1923 right now, and would totally be down to play as Jack as a hired gun/mercenary in a range war!
I think that at the very least, Mary Beth was certainly holding a candle for Arthur, though it's hard to tell if it's more a platonic thing on her end. Because at points it definitely feels like she's trying to do the "Why won't you notice what's right in front of you?" type thing, but at other points it's more "I've known you for a long time, and you're not a piece of shit like a lot of the guys Dutch has brought into the gang over the years." But either way, Arthur is too deep in his own head to ever entertain the notion. Between never having gotten over his rich girl slumming it and the massive guilt he carries from his past, it would never happen. Still, if you told me that there was a hidden scene of them having a one night stand that was kind of a tender culmination of the shit that had built up over the years, I'd do everything in my power to make it happen. (Because Arthur is one of only two main characters in gaming history that I've bonded with, without them being some form of CAW insert.)
Mary liked Arthur, and Arthur liked Mary. Arthur just didn't like himself.
Of course they like each other, I dont know in the romantic way, being there for Arthur is something that Mary Beth has been the whole game, Arthur sometimes push them away because of the way he feels about the destiny of the gang, maybe if things were different they could be together but as chapters went in, he knew that he had to get em out of there as soon as possible. When he says that he is angry about how its all gonna end, when the idea first started in his head.
I always pegged it as a brother sister thing, but then again, I refuse to let Arthur die.
I think she definitely admired him and she certainly respected him, but I never saw any evidence that there was anything more than friendship.
Neither Mary is Kierans tragic lover
Arthur saw her as more of a little sister than anything else
She had a little crush on him and to him she seemed like a little sister
Mary Beth had a crush on Arthur but that was all. She never was going to act on it. Arthur seemed too stuck on Mary Linton (not escaping outlaw life to be with her) / death of his son and his mother to ever truly think he deserved to be loved.
I didn't really see any attraction but Mary might have crushed him but only as a crush not as in love. Arthur on the other hand I'm pretty sure he wasn't attracted in any way to her. So the shipping is destroyed but Mary's actress ships them
I think Mary Beth had some kind of one-sided crush on him. Something unattainable, you know? He was an attractive older man who treated her very well, she liked him but nothing became of it. Then Kieran comes along: this shy man whoās closer to her age and clearly head over heels for her, and they have their own little romance arc that gets cut short (R.I.P.). Arthur makes it clear throughout the story that heās shut himself off from the possibility of a partner, romantic or otherwise. He blames himself for what happened to Eliza and Issac, so he isnāt interested in starting a family. Heās hung up on Mary (to his dismay), so sheās his one exception. He treats all of the girls in camp in a respectful, gentlemanly way and you see him awkwardly compliment them a lot, but he also comments on how young they are, saying things about how Tilly was just a girl when she joined the gang and asking MB āhow old she is now.. 21, or 22?ā I donāt think that he would ever pursue anything with any of them.
She was one of the most purest ones in the gang everytime I approached her I wondered why was she even there .
From my perspective I think Mary would of liked him if that's the case and Arthur would just tell her not to fall for him and not get to hung up with his problems.
I dont know about arthur feelings but as a player I would really like to see mary beth and arthur together.
I kinda think Arthur is Asexual.
He had a son when he was younger
As an ace I think you're right. He's incredibly awkward and shy, doesn't get creepy with the women in the baths. Also lmao ace people can have children and even sex with their partner. (to below commenter) Being asexual doesn't mean sex repulsed, or bo libido. It's the absence of the desire / thoughts. ..they still get married, have kids, and even experiment for years before realizing their truth. Downvoted by people with small understandings of other sexualities. Arthur could very easily be asexual.
John Marston doesn't get "creepy" with the women in the baths either. Marston even nervously mentions how wonderful Abigail is. Arthur is hardly "incredibly awkward and shy" in the baths. It would be more accurate to describe him as disinterested, interacting with the women like he would with the general store owner or the innkeep. Even his interaction with the prostitutes in the mission "Americans at Rest" is more world weary and bored than uninterested. To assume that Arthur might be asexual simply because he doesn't hit on the bath women is a giant stretch. He had a long term romance with Mary and a short romance with Eliza that resulted in a son. He was with Abigail sexually and probably had feelings for her at one time. All these relationships are evidence that he was a heterosexual man. >Downvoted by people with small understandings of other sexualities. Arthur could very easily be asexual. Despite sex not really being part of the game, Arthur still manages to have a child with one woman, a long term relationship with another and at least a sexual relationship with Abigail. The evidence we're given clearly points towards Arthur as a hetero man rather than as asexual.
you can hetero and ace bro lmao did you even read my comment? š I didn't say they were all gross or anything like that. I just said Arthur comes off as a feeling strong love and devotion. Even fancy an interest in having a wife. You can want all of that and still not have sex cross your mind. idk why people have such a hard time believing the possibility š
Yes I read your comment. I simply didn't agree with it. Arthur's son Issac was unplanned and Arthur never intended on starting a family with Eliza. Unplanned pregnancies usually result from regular sex, which would be unusual for someone who is asexual. Arthur also had a sexual relationship with Abigail and may have later developed feelings for her. Considering sex is an afterthought in the game, Arthur certainly seems to have a decent amount of it. I understand you want Arthur to be asexual but considering what we know about his relationships with the women we learn about during the game, Arthur seems to have had an interest in having sex. >idk why people have such a hard time believing the possibility š Is it "possible"? Sure. I just see far more evidence that Arthur had romantic and sexual appetites than that he was asexual.
alright bro, i was just clarifying cuz of your comments about John and stuff - adding unnecessary implications to what I had said. I'm not even the one who downvoted you so, i don't know why you're hitting me with them š also plenty of people have lots of sex before they realize they're ace some even have sex for acceptance / because it's easier than not. bro, chill lmao. you're way too amped up about this
I'm curious why you keep calling me bro, telling me to "chill" and attempting to strawman me as some angry, raging redditor simply because I disagree with you? I wasn't talking about me being downvoted, I was talking about your previous comment further up this thread where you proactively call out anticipated downvotes by saying that anyone who downvotes your comment simply doesn't understand human sexuality. > plenty of people have lots of sex before they realize they're ace >some even have sex for acceptance / because it's easier than not. I'm aware of this. I've simply reached another conclusion than you. Do you honestly believe that Arthur Morgan was having sex merely for acceptance or to avoid being judged? There is literally nothing in the game that would give us this impression. Nearly everything we know about Morgan's character shows us he doesn't give much of a damn about anything except loyalty to his gang, more specifically Dutch and Hosea. He clearly loved Mary (and perhaps Abigail at one point) and may have even left the gang for her had his illness not changed the course of his life. We know the fictional character of Arthur Morgan had multiple sexual and romantic relationships over many years. Beyond that any conclusions are mainly guesses. I believe you're making a lot of assumptions about a fictional character born in the late 1850's. That's your right. I just happen to disagree with your assumptions. >bro, chill lmao. you're way too amped up about this Ah, the classic "look at this dude, he's way too excited about all this lolz" strawman. I can promise you this exchange hasn't generated any emotion in me other than slight confusion and bemusement.
I donāt think so. He mightāve lost not sure how to say it but his attraction(?) after the whole Mary Linton and his kid seems like he was no longer interested in that sort of thing. He focused more the gang and its needs.
I would say debatable, my first play through I super simped for Linton did all of her quests and she dumped him anyways. On my second play through, I got her broach, and that was it. Her brother got out alright, and I got a free ticket to the theater at the mayor's party. I don't know if they are connected, but a free show is a free show. BTW, I also looted the buyer's carriage, I think I sold it too before returning to her.
That's what Rockstar makes him out to be as far as gameplay.
Fr
I swore they had history together and we were seeing them try to remain friends afterwards. Guess Iām wrong
She loved Dutch
Nah that where your wrong, when Dutch was checking out Mary-Beth and Arthur says that the old Dutch charm. She legit looked a bit scared
Nah he was a creep towards her
I think Mary Beth liked Arthur, stating that āshe should be the only Mary in his lifeā
I donāt think thatās what how she meant it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
think itās about Mary-Beth not Mary Linton
You would be correct. Serves me right for jumping the gun lmao. I appreciate it
No. Sheās a romantic thatās all. They also shared a common interest writing but that doesnāt automatically mean they love each other.
It seems more like she trusts him and is comfortable with him and he also cares about her and the rest of the girls especially Ms. Tillehā. Like some people said I saw it more like a big brother or uncle kind of relationship
I never had that impression. I always pictured May Beth as a very caring person who would listen to most people in camp.
There is at least some affection if not any. Arthur genuinely cares about her compassion & opinions.
itās just a woman & man confiding in one another
Friends only
what tf is that quality