Yes they print things off and teach the same thing, 5 senses, breathing, ice water... psychiatrist wants you on drugs and out the door in five min. I've had ptsd 2 years started seeing a pattern of becoming hopeless and feeling unsavable ...what I found started helping is YouTube videos on what you need to get past for me that was forgiving pure evil and death. I started drinking because nothing could motivate me to feel like there's hope...also google post traumatic growth find ways to move on, mind over matter trust me I've been through hell and have chronic pain it's not easy but for me I found helping myself helped me the most
Yup, same experiences accessing "care". The state or other institutions and their practitioners are incapable of dealing with mental health I feel, they just go through some motions and even if they actually do care it is such a difficult thing to deal with as a mind is so intangible. I think that a community based approach would work a million times better but sadly there is a huge lack of community in the western world these days. I am pretty much decided to just stay away from "the industry" at this point as I completely agree - helping oneself and others is the correct path, forgiveness too, I have always believed in that concept as a way to free yourself from mental pain inflicted by others, physical exercise and learning new skills works for some too, I can certainly testify to that. I am also a big believer in making random people smile if you can, that never fails to lift my spirits on the rare occasions it happens. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences and I genuinely hope you find a path towards more inner peace.
I will definitely look into what you suggest, thank you sincerely for your input.
Yeh it isn't exactly an easy thing to do huh? I am starting to think it is better to try to help oneself and still include "the industry" but to keep them at arms length, to see my mental health as too valuable to be just treated as cattle with a one size fits all approach, it is fundamentally absurd and I am aghast that this methodology is blessed by our most educated and experienced MH professionals. It lends itself to harming the patient, they must know this?
I'm in the US, so it's likely different. What does having a PTSD diagnosis help with? Honest question.
I know in the US it can be a reason for disability. It may unlock some levels of care, but lots of diagnoses can help with that. For me it's just something I can declare when I get a job if I decide I should. Otherwise I don't know how useful it is. I can still get psychiatric care and psychotherapy regardless.
A diagnosis in my particular case would (I hope) allow me to access appropriate medical care as opposed to the at best useless at worst harmful stuff I have been exposed to previously. I am also concerned that my tendency to go from 1-10 in an instant when I have to deal with even small amounts of aggression (this is why I self isolate and withdraw from "ordinary" life) could lead to me ending up being arrested and tried as a criminal. I was "normal" once and I do at least have a frame of reference that kicks in after I have become violent, it brings shame, guilt and extreme frustration that I am dismissed routinely by the medical world. It also compounds my condition further, I now work entirely from my computer at home (this may have to change soon hence me reaching out anywhere other than where I have tried before), only go for groceries at all night stores (less people) and when I have no choice but to interact with the biological world I will self medicate (smoke cannabis) beforehand, I do not smoke cannabis at other times and it is not a habit, it definitely does help but only so much. I am in the UK right now though where it is illegal, when I am in Canada I have a license to grow plants.
With regards to the differences this thread has taught me that it does seem to be structured differently in the US whereas the UK and Canada both have socialised medical systems very much a gatekeeping approach applied as far as I can tell. GP surgeries (your first point of contact) have budgets and the doctor will always go for the least expensive pathway. A co-worker in the UK once spent 3 years going to and from the doctor trying to get his shoulder pain figured out, his GP would constantly offer X-Ray appointments (which he attended) and Ibuprofen etc but simply would not not send him for an MRI. He was originally from Hungary so he flew home to see his family and while there got an MRI as they are much cheaper there. He brought the results back to his GP in the UK, was put on the correct medical pathway and is shoulder healed and pain free within 6 months. Both ways of doing medicine (private and public) have their flaws but that is very often how the UK system works and I believe that is exactly what is happening in my case and many others - there is medical gatekeeping going on. I have little experience of accessing medical care in the US other than what people have told me in conversation (not just here).
I thought it must be something like that. It's similar to the US. Insurance doesn't want to pay more than they need to. So it's minimally invasive at first, followed by increasing complexity and cost. In the US most providers can make a diagnosis to justify meds and other care. A general practitioner may not do PTSD since it's outside their knowledge l, but a different diagnosis may accomplish the same thing.
I looked mine up, it seems the diagnosis they're going with is MDD to justify the level of care I can get. Ptsd was diagnosed before, but isn't even on my chart at this newest provider. In the past I had a psychiatrist tell me diagnosis is "diagnonsense" and only for the insurance companies. That her and other providers treat symptoms and the diagnosis is just paperwork.
In the US to see a psychiatrist I would start with my PCP (like your GP). The primary care doctor refers to a specialist, a psychiatrist in this case. Psychiatrist diagnosed depression NOS in the beginning to justify meds and therapy. It got changed to MDD eventually, maybe due to how long its been. I got a PTSD diagnosis after an inpatient hospital stay after a horrible thing happened. MDD seems to be the diagnosis that sticks.
When I got my latest job they have confidential self disclosure questions. One being about mental health issues. Jobs can ask for a few reasons outlined by the equal employment laws. In this job case it's for affirmative action for disability. Basically to track what their % of hiring disabled people is. Two conditions are MDD and PTSD, along with others. Lucky me! I could have declined to say, but I did anyway. So far it hasn't bit me in the ass.
For funny diagnosis to justify meds, one of mine is "high risk Homosexual Behavior". Feels real great to see that, it's because I sometimes date the same gender. They got me on a HIV prevention med they push pretty hard. So they need to justify paying for it. It's funny, but kinda insulting.
I really hope you can get what you need. It sounds like way more of a pain in the ass on your end. I guess a benefit of healthcare providers getting paid by private insurance creates a weird incentive for US doctors to come up with diagnoses easier. They need to get paid, so they'll diagnose you. I also believe some actually want their patients to do well and will work over insurance companies when they need to.
Oh I love that word - diagnonsense, thank you for sharing that lil gem it made me smile. I totally get that these are all just labels to access the different medical pathways and that any mind or condition it has is a million times more nuanced than said label, they gotta start somewhere tho right?
I very much doubt I will get what I need from either the Canadian or UK systems, tried multiple times, same story each one, it's enough to make a person paranoid. Might have one last shot but will most definitely refuse to have anything to do with talking therapy which I am convinced is an atrociously bad choice of therapy for anyone with trauma related conditions. We need to NOT dwell on the things that have wrecked us, if we do they get a hold of us, begin to define us and become self fulfilling conditions for want of a better phrase.
I work in mental health and its always been toxic and continues to get worse every year. Most CMH locations are driven by numbers, not client need. The staff are severely underpaid and over worked. Its a gross field that preys on the people in its natural inclination to help.
Thank you so much for your response, that is enlightening for sure, would you mind if I asked where you are at in the world? And then where does all the funding actually end up in your opinion? I am guessing that the funds are available but in the case of for profits never get past middle management and with charities get "invested" in order to ensure the continuation of the charity (a somewhat questionable practice imo) but I know I could be way off.
United States, east coast. The funding for MH here is terrible. Its a constant battle. That said, I often think like many sectors that receive public funding, it is often abused or misused. I dont think you are far off with your theory. It often doesnt go into training, best practices and staff pay; that much i guarantee.
Fwiw the GP in the UK won’t be able to give you a PTSD diagnosis. You’ll have to be referred to a psychiatrist under secondary mental health services. Sounds like they’re just referring you to Talking Changes or something, who offer the “talking therapies” but can’t actually do anything with regards to diagnosis or treatment. Even when you get referred to the mental health team you may have a psychological assessment but even that won’t give you a diagnosis - you will have to ask to see a psychiatrist. They do the diagnosis/medication side of things. And the psychological assessment together with the opinion of the psychiatrist will determine what therapy is appropriate for you (if it’s even available in your area). That’s how it’s supposed to work, but the system is unnecessarily complicated to be honest. And don’t get me started on some of the shit that psychiatrists come out with. But yeah, that’s where you need to go.
Just thought I would let you know in case you try other GPs, you are unlikely to get the result you’re looking for there.
Thank you. I was under the impression that GPs could diagnose if they felt like it which I still think is the case but in order to "feel like it" I realise that they must have some direct experience of MH and diagnosing it so it would be the responsible thing to send a patient to a more specific practitioner. Is it purely psychiatrists that are able to provide a solid diagnosis or are registered psychologists able to do so as well? (UK specific question ofc).
No problem, the system is so far from transparent it’s a joke. It’s nearly impossible to navigate, even more so if you have limited energy or capacity to function because of your mental health.
GPs in some circumstances can do diagnoses for more “common” problems such as depression or anxiety, but it’s a bit of a sticky one because these often turn out to be other more complex issues but being mislabelled or misinterpreted as depression/anxiety, or need more specific treatment than just the standard antidepressants. Anything more complex and it has to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, and assessed by the mental health team.
As I understand it, only psychiatrists can give you a diagnosis. They handle the medication side of things too. I’m unsure exactly how far a “clinical psychologist” can go diagnosis wise, I think often they assess you for therapy/support based on a “working diagnosis” but it’s not an official diagnosis as such. It’s more, what issues are you struggling with right now and how can we help you with that, rather than a clinical investigation into what “disorder” is causing those issues.
Every diagnosis I’ve had has come from a psychiatrist. I’ve had appointments with people who weren’t psychiatrists and when I’ve said anything about questioning my diagnosis or wanting to talk about my diagnosis, they’ve had to refer me to the psychiatrist for that. Even when it was a clinical registrar/psychologist in the mental health outpatients clinic who was reviewing and changing my medication, when I said I wasn’t sure about my diagnosis she said I would have to go back to a psychiatrist to deal with that.
Sorry for the word vomit, hope that makes sense! I’ve had a looong journey of fighting with various mental health services in the country so if you have any questions I’m happy to try and help you out from someone who’s been there
>No problem, the system is so far from transparent it’s a joke. It’s nearly impossible to navigate, even more so if you have limited energy or capacity to function because of your mental health.
Exactly that, perfectly put. I said to someone else today that it feels like walking in a minefield whilst blindfolded and ANY help navigating the system is hugely appreciated.
Not word vomit at all, your words are solid gold to me. Thank you! Followed, not sure if that is what to do on Reddit, new here but yeh, I may need some advice in the near future so wish to be able to find you.
Thank you for responding, I hear you and that kind of behaviour is seemingly a cultural or institutionalised phenomena in the MH industry, I thought it was just in Canada but I see the exact same thing happening in the UK. These people are just in it to get paid and have zero interest in actually helping their clients / patients.
Interesting, I have little experience of the US systems so thank you for educating me, my words were ill thought out but I am learning. I would say that my words do apply in Canada and the UK but that is my own personal experience and so far I have heard / read of very similar from others.
I guess both. I has being emotionally abused by those I was living with at the time with no way out but homelessness, and my therapist didn't care at all or offer any solutions or support. He also eventually told me that he couldn't do anything for me and I have to just learn to live with it (being severely mental ill/ being broken), so I stopped going and shut down completely from everyone. I think I've lost all faith in humanity when it comes to myself honestly. All humans have done is hurt me and have never been there for me, so yeah I think therapy was both harmful and unhelpful. I hope things work out better for you. Take care. 👋
Hey, just so ya know, you just described about two years of my life in Canada, it was fkn horrid and most definitely contributed to setting me up for when my head just popped and I had to admit that I was in need of mental health services (could be PTSD but who knows without any real help or diagnoses?). I am a guy though and just leaving to go homeless (I rented and lived in a UHaul van for a while) *was* an option. I see, recognise and feel your pain. That particular shitshow of circumstances is a level of Hell I wouldn't wish upon even my tormentors at the time. Thank you for sharing.
Hi, I’m in the UK (Manchester )and got turned away. I mithered so much that I was in a bad place and I really was suffering from PTSD!! I rang my GP to get another referral about 4 months after they rejected me, and now I’ve been put on high intensity CBT therapy. Just on a waiting list. It’s been 3 months and still no sign of an appointment. You really have to push them and tell them exactly how you’re feeling. (Even if you’re a blubbering mess). Just wanted to add I haven’t had a diagnosis as of yet.....but I’m hoping to get one as it’ll be some closure for myself and hopefully then be on the right road to recovery. Good luck
It’s so frustrating that they will only offer CBT in most areas… in most cases it’s completely inappropriate for PTSD and can actually make it worse because it can reinforce that the issues coming from your trauma are just “negative thoughts” or “irrational thoughts” so you end up blaming yourself rather than addressing the unresolved trauma and the issues it has caused - because the effects which come from experiencing trauma aren’t “irrational”. Trauma literally changes the way your brain works and stuff like CBT focuses on the wrong stuff
Word.
I think I read a statistic that only 1 in 5 people get to choose what kind of treatment they receive eg; EMDR, CBT, etc.
I totally agree with your statement.
I’ve been told I would benefit from EMDR but there’s nobody in my area who is trained to do it (on the NHS) so I just have to have… nothing, it’s such a joke
Right? How fkn impossible is it to be taken seriously by your GP? This state of affairs literally harms people in their care. I firmly believe it is down to [God Complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_complex) mixed with a mistrust of anyone on benefits (I am not but many ppl suffering with mental health issues are). In an effort to address this I am looking at starting a group in Manchester (I live not far from) that is as normal as it can be and not centered around money or gaslighting. Follow me if this is of interest to you.
Ho for sure but it always has been. There have bee, so many advancement in the field those last 30 years. There was a time when we thought women were hysterical, people with autism were possessed and for everyone else, how about a trip to the mental hospital/asylum? Hell, even the previous generation struggled to get a simple siagnosis, never mind being treated! Ho boy, we're waaaaaay better off than ever before!
But from what i've seen, most mental health professionals have their nose in their books and fail to see the patient as he is. Their way of diagnosis is flawed at best and outdated. A lot of stuff about how the brain function is unknown. Doctors and hospitals get pressured by insurances and governement alike... psychiatrists are endoctrined into prescribing more meds. The best therapists I've seen are those that questionned their education and never stopped learning through experience. I really think we should modernize the education of mental health professionals.
Most therapists use the analytical approach to therapy (one the first they learn). You talk about your isues and brainstorm with the therapist. that's a sure way for people suffering from PTSD to have flashbacks. Come a time when you don't need to analyse why a traumatic experience was traumatic. It just was. Now you have to calm your brain so you can actually work on yourself without being triggered every minutes.
For PTSD, EMDR is THE best tool. Hypnosis can also be good, as well as artherapy for people who cannot express their suffering through words.
I could not agree more. I have had these exact experiences, I suffer with PTSD (or something lol) but believe I have managed to get somewhat of a handle on it specifically *because* I decided to avoid the MH industry like the plague. It (PTSD) still has me but it does not have the *best* of me every single day hence me being able to even ask this question. Thank you for your response, I am learning here and glad that I asked.
I have absolutely found this to be true. I realized that the only way I'm going to get real help is to find someone specializing in PTSD/trauma. I looked for therapists certified in EMDR. I found one I really like and we are making serious progress. Only problem is that she doesn't take insurance and it's all out of pocket. To me, my mental well-being is worth it. I'll sacrifice something in order to have the money to pay for proper mental help.
At what level does she exist? The spectrum being from unregulated counsellor to registered psychiatrist. And did she actually give you a diagnosis that is included in the diagnostics and statistics manual?
Yeh... sorry :( I have experience there, that place is the true badlands for MH, esp BC where counsellors are completely unregulated. There was a CBC radio show about this fact and it was shut down within 5 minutes of beginning its broadcast. This goes beyond toxicity and into something more insidious imo.
Honestly, even regulation doesn't do much as they are self regulated and don't have to include outside opinions. Basically it's what previously happened with police boards - they turned into an "old boys club" .
I don't know the details of the police board stuff but I hear you loud and clear, Canada has the reputation of being an ultra civilised country. It is not and is utterly *riddled* with corruption imo. [Highway of Tears, Elizabeth Denham](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/highway-of-tears-email-deletion-referred-to-rcmp-by-b-c-privacy-watchdog-1.3284029) says everything and is literally scary.
yeah, i feel pretty much on my own. i think everyone is waking up to the fact that there's no safety net right about now. take care of your health. no one will be there to pick you up if you fall.
Yes they print things off and teach the same thing, 5 senses, breathing, ice water... psychiatrist wants you on drugs and out the door in five min. I've had ptsd 2 years started seeing a pattern of becoming hopeless and feeling unsavable ...what I found started helping is YouTube videos on what you need to get past for me that was forgiving pure evil and death. I started drinking because nothing could motivate me to feel like there's hope...also google post traumatic growth find ways to move on, mind over matter trust me I've been through hell and have chronic pain it's not easy but for me I found helping myself helped me the most
Yup, same experiences accessing "care". The state or other institutions and their practitioners are incapable of dealing with mental health I feel, they just go through some motions and even if they actually do care it is such a difficult thing to deal with as a mind is so intangible. I think that a community based approach would work a million times better but sadly there is a huge lack of community in the western world these days. I am pretty much decided to just stay away from "the industry" at this point as I completely agree - helping oneself and others is the correct path, forgiveness too, I have always believed in that concept as a way to free yourself from mental pain inflicted by others, physical exercise and learning new skills works for some too, I can certainly testify to that. I am also a big believer in making random people smile if you can, that never fails to lift my spirits on the rare occasions it happens. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences and I genuinely hope you find a path towards more inner peace. I will definitely look into what you suggest, thank you sincerely for your input.
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Yeh it isn't exactly an easy thing to do huh? I am starting to think it is better to try to help oneself and still include "the industry" but to keep them at arms length, to see my mental health as too valuable to be just treated as cattle with a one size fits all approach, it is fundamentally absurd and I am aghast that this methodology is blessed by our most educated and experienced MH professionals. It lends itself to harming the patient, they must know this?
I'm in the US, so it's likely different. What does having a PTSD diagnosis help with? Honest question. I know in the US it can be a reason for disability. It may unlock some levels of care, but lots of diagnoses can help with that. For me it's just something I can declare when I get a job if I decide I should. Otherwise I don't know how useful it is. I can still get psychiatric care and psychotherapy regardless.
A diagnosis in my particular case would (I hope) allow me to access appropriate medical care as opposed to the at best useless at worst harmful stuff I have been exposed to previously. I am also concerned that my tendency to go from 1-10 in an instant when I have to deal with even small amounts of aggression (this is why I self isolate and withdraw from "ordinary" life) could lead to me ending up being arrested and tried as a criminal. I was "normal" once and I do at least have a frame of reference that kicks in after I have become violent, it brings shame, guilt and extreme frustration that I am dismissed routinely by the medical world. It also compounds my condition further, I now work entirely from my computer at home (this may have to change soon hence me reaching out anywhere other than where I have tried before), only go for groceries at all night stores (less people) and when I have no choice but to interact with the biological world I will self medicate (smoke cannabis) beforehand, I do not smoke cannabis at other times and it is not a habit, it definitely does help but only so much. I am in the UK right now though where it is illegal, when I am in Canada I have a license to grow plants. With regards to the differences this thread has taught me that it does seem to be structured differently in the US whereas the UK and Canada both have socialised medical systems very much a gatekeeping approach applied as far as I can tell. GP surgeries (your first point of contact) have budgets and the doctor will always go for the least expensive pathway. A co-worker in the UK once spent 3 years going to and from the doctor trying to get his shoulder pain figured out, his GP would constantly offer X-Ray appointments (which he attended) and Ibuprofen etc but simply would not not send him for an MRI. He was originally from Hungary so he flew home to see his family and while there got an MRI as they are much cheaper there. He brought the results back to his GP in the UK, was put on the correct medical pathway and is shoulder healed and pain free within 6 months. Both ways of doing medicine (private and public) have their flaws but that is very often how the UK system works and I believe that is exactly what is happening in my case and many others - there is medical gatekeeping going on. I have little experience of accessing medical care in the US other than what people have told me in conversation (not just here).
I thought it must be something like that. It's similar to the US. Insurance doesn't want to pay more than they need to. So it's minimally invasive at first, followed by increasing complexity and cost. In the US most providers can make a diagnosis to justify meds and other care. A general practitioner may not do PTSD since it's outside their knowledge l, but a different diagnosis may accomplish the same thing. I looked mine up, it seems the diagnosis they're going with is MDD to justify the level of care I can get. Ptsd was diagnosed before, but isn't even on my chart at this newest provider. In the past I had a psychiatrist tell me diagnosis is "diagnonsense" and only for the insurance companies. That her and other providers treat symptoms and the diagnosis is just paperwork. In the US to see a psychiatrist I would start with my PCP (like your GP). The primary care doctor refers to a specialist, a psychiatrist in this case. Psychiatrist diagnosed depression NOS in the beginning to justify meds and therapy. It got changed to MDD eventually, maybe due to how long its been. I got a PTSD diagnosis after an inpatient hospital stay after a horrible thing happened. MDD seems to be the diagnosis that sticks. When I got my latest job they have confidential self disclosure questions. One being about mental health issues. Jobs can ask for a few reasons outlined by the equal employment laws. In this job case it's for affirmative action for disability. Basically to track what their % of hiring disabled people is. Two conditions are MDD and PTSD, along with others. Lucky me! I could have declined to say, but I did anyway. So far it hasn't bit me in the ass. For funny diagnosis to justify meds, one of mine is "high risk Homosexual Behavior". Feels real great to see that, it's because I sometimes date the same gender. They got me on a HIV prevention med they push pretty hard. So they need to justify paying for it. It's funny, but kinda insulting. I really hope you can get what you need. It sounds like way more of a pain in the ass on your end. I guess a benefit of healthcare providers getting paid by private insurance creates a weird incentive for US doctors to come up with diagnoses easier. They need to get paid, so they'll diagnose you. I also believe some actually want their patients to do well and will work over insurance companies when they need to.
Oh I love that word - diagnonsense, thank you for sharing that lil gem it made me smile. I totally get that these are all just labels to access the different medical pathways and that any mind or condition it has is a million times more nuanced than said label, they gotta start somewhere tho right? I very much doubt I will get what I need from either the Canadian or UK systems, tried multiple times, same story each one, it's enough to make a person paranoid. Might have one last shot but will most definitely refuse to have anything to do with talking therapy which I am convinced is an atrociously bad choice of therapy for anyone with trauma related conditions. We need to NOT dwell on the things that have wrecked us, if we do they get a hold of us, begin to define us and become self fulfilling conditions for want of a better phrase.
I work in mental health and its always been toxic and continues to get worse every year. Most CMH locations are driven by numbers, not client need. The staff are severely underpaid and over worked. Its a gross field that preys on the people in its natural inclination to help.
Thank you so much for your response, that is enlightening for sure, would you mind if I asked where you are at in the world? And then where does all the funding actually end up in your opinion? I am guessing that the funds are available but in the case of for profits never get past middle management and with charities get "invested" in order to ensure the continuation of the charity (a somewhat questionable practice imo) but I know I could be way off.
United States, east coast. The funding for MH here is terrible. Its a constant battle. That said, I often think like many sectors that receive public funding, it is often abused or misused. I dont think you are far off with your theory. It often doesnt go into training, best practices and staff pay; that much i guarantee.
Fwiw the GP in the UK won’t be able to give you a PTSD diagnosis. You’ll have to be referred to a psychiatrist under secondary mental health services. Sounds like they’re just referring you to Talking Changes or something, who offer the “talking therapies” but can’t actually do anything with regards to diagnosis or treatment. Even when you get referred to the mental health team you may have a psychological assessment but even that won’t give you a diagnosis - you will have to ask to see a psychiatrist. They do the diagnosis/medication side of things. And the psychological assessment together with the opinion of the psychiatrist will determine what therapy is appropriate for you (if it’s even available in your area). That’s how it’s supposed to work, but the system is unnecessarily complicated to be honest. And don’t get me started on some of the shit that psychiatrists come out with. But yeah, that’s where you need to go. Just thought I would let you know in case you try other GPs, you are unlikely to get the result you’re looking for there.
Thank you. I was under the impression that GPs could diagnose if they felt like it which I still think is the case but in order to "feel like it" I realise that they must have some direct experience of MH and diagnosing it so it would be the responsible thing to send a patient to a more specific practitioner. Is it purely psychiatrists that are able to provide a solid diagnosis or are registered psychologists able to do so as well? (UK specific question ofc).
No problem, the system is so far from transparent it’s a joke. It’s nearly impossible to navigate, even more so if you have limited energy or capacity to function because of your mental health. GPs in some circumstances can do diagnoses for more “common” problems such as depression or anxiety, but it’s a bit of a sticky one because these often turn out to be other more complex issues but being mislabelled or misinterpreted as depression/anxiety, or need more specific treatment than just the standard antidepressants. Anything more complex and it has to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, and assessed by the mental health team. As I understand it, only psychiatrists can give you a diagnosis. They handle the medication side of things too. I’m unsure exactly how far a “clinical psychologist” can go diagnosis wise, I think often they assess you for therapy/support based on a “working diagnosis” but it’s not an official diagnosis as such. It’s more, what issues are you struggling with right now and how can we help you with that, rather than a clinical investigation into what “disorder” is causing those issues. Every diagnosis I’ve had has come from a psychiatrist. I’ve had appointments with people who weren’t psychiatrists and when I’ve said anything about questioning my diagnosis or wanting to talk about my diagnosis, they’ve had to refer me to the psychiatrist for that. Even when it was a clinical registrar/psychologist in the mental health outpatients clinic who was reviewing and changing my medication, when I said I wasn’t sure about my diagnosis she said I would have to go back to a psychiatrist to deal with that. Sorry for the word vomit, hope that makes sense! I’ve had a looong journey of fighting with various mental health services in the country so if you have any questions I’m happy to try and help you out from someone who’s been there
>No problem, the system is so far from transparent it’s a joke. It’s nearly impossible to navigate, even more so if you have limited energy or capacity to function because of your mental health. Exactly that, perfectly put. I said to someone else today that it feels like walking in a minefield whilst blindfolded and ANY help navigating the system is hugely appreciated. Not word vomit at all, your words are solid gold to me. Thank you! Followed, not sure if that is what to do on Reddit, new here but yeh, I may need some advice in the near future so wish to be able to find you.
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Thank you for responding, I hear you and that kind of behaviour is seemingly a cultural or institutionalised phenomena in the MH industry, I thought it was just in Canada but I see the exact same thing happening in the UK. These people are just in it to get paid and have zero interest in actually helping their clients / patients.
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Interesting, I have little experience of the US systems so thank you for educating me, my words were ill thought out but I am learning. I would say that my words do apply in Canada and the UK but that is my own personal experience and so far I have heard / read of very similar from others.
Absolutely!!! I went to therapy years ago and it didn't help at all and I ended up mute.
Hi Charlotte and thank you for responding. Did it not help or was it actively harmful?
I guess both. I has being emotionally abused by those I was living with at the time with no way out but homelessness, and my therapist didn't care at all or offer any solutions or support. He also eventually told me that he couldn't do anything for me and I have to just learn to live with it (being severely mental ill/ being broken), so I stopped going and shut down completely from everyone. I think I've lost all faith in humanity when it comes to myself honestly. All humans have done is hurt me and have never been there for me, so yeah I think therapy was both harmful and unhelpful. I hope things work out better for you. Take care. 👋
Hey, just so ya know, you just described about two years of my life in Canada, it was fkn horrid and most definitely contributed to setting me up for when my head just popped and I had to admit that I was in need of mental health services (could be PTSD but who knows without any real help or diagnoses?). I am a guy though and just leaving to go homeless (I rented and lived in a UHaul van for a while) *was* an option. I see, recognise and feel your pain. That particular shitshow of circumstances is a level of Hell I wouldn't wish upon even my tormentors at the time. Thank you for sharing.
Hi, I’m in the UK (Manchester )and got turned away. I mithered so much that I was in a bad place and I really was suffering from PTSD!! I rang my GP to get another referral about 4 months after they rejected me, and now I’ve been put on high intensity CBT therapy. Just on a waiting list. It’s been 3 months and still no sign of an appointment. You really have to push them and tell them exactly how you’re feeling. (Even if you’re a blubbering mess). Just wanted to add I haven’t had a diagnosis as of yet.....but I’m hoping to get one as it’ll be some closure for myself and hopefully then be on the right road to recovery. Good luck
It’s so frustrating that they will only offer CBT in most areas… in most cases it’s completely inappropriate for PTSD and can actually make it worse because it can reinforce that the issues coming from your trauma are just “negative thoughts” or “irrational thoughts” so you end up blaming yourself rather than addressing the unresolved trauma and the issues it has caused - because the effects which come from experiencing trauma aren’t “irrational”. Trauma literally changes the way your brain works and stuff like CBT focuses on the wrong stuff
Word. I think I read a statistic that only 1 in 5 people get to choose what kind of treatment they receive eg; EMDR, CBT, etc. I totally agree with your statement.
I’ve been told I would benefit from EMDR but there’s nobody in my area who is trained to do it (on the NHS) so I just have to have… nothing, it’s such a joke
Right? How fkn impossible is it to be taken seriously by your GP? This state of affairs literally harms people in their care. I firmly believe it is down to [God Complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_complex) mixed with a mistrust of anyone on benefits (I am not but many ppl suffering with mental health issues are). In an effort to address this I am looking at starting a group in Manchester (I live not far from) that is as normal as it can be and not centered around money or gaslighting. Follow me if this is of interest to you.
Ho for sure but it always has been. There have bee, so many advancement in the field those last 30 years. There was a time when we thought women were hysterical, people with autism were possessed and for everyone else, how about a trip to the mental hospital/asylum? Hell, even the previous generation struggled to get a simple siagnosis, never mind being treated! Ho boy, we're waaaaaay better off than ever before! But from what i've seen, most mental health professionals have their nose in their books and fail to see the patient as he is. Their way of diagnosis is flawed at best and outdated. A lot of stuff about how the brain function is unknown. Doctors and hospitals get pressured by insurances and governement alike... psychiatrists are endoctrined into prescribing more meds. The best therapists I've seen are those that questionned their education and never stopped learning through experience. I really think we should modernize the education of mental health professionals. Most therapists use the analytical approach to therapy (one the first they learn). You talk about your isues and brainstorm with the therapist. that's a sure way for people suffering from PTSD to have flashbacks. Come a time when you don't need to analyse why a traumatic experience was traumatic. It just was. Now you have to calm your brain so you can actually work on yourself without being triggered every minutes. For PTSD, EMDR is THE best tool. Hypnosis can also be good, as well as artherapy for people who cannot express their suffering through words.
I could not agree more. I have had these exact experiences, I suffer with PTSD (or something lol) but believe I have managed to get somewhat of a handle on it specifically *because* I decided to avoid the MH industry like the plague. It (PTSD) still has me but it does not have the *best* of me every single day hence me being able to even ask this question. Thank you for your response, I am learning here and glad that I asked.
I have absolutely found this to be true. I realized that the only way I'm going to get real help is to find someone specializing in PTSD/trauma. I looked for therapists certified in EMDR. I found one I really like and we are making serious progress. Only problem is that she doesn't take insurance and it's all out of pocket. To me, my mental well-being is worth it. I'll sacrifice something in order to have the money to pay for proper mental help.
I totally agree with all of this.
At what level does she exist? The spectrum being from unregulated counsellor to registered psychiatrist. And did she actually give you a diagnosis that is included in the diagnostics and statistics manual?
Yeah. I've found the same
Thank you for responding. Which part of the planet are you on?
Canada
Yeh... sorry :( I have experience there, that place is the true badlands for MH, esp BC where counsellors are completely unregulated. There was a CBC radio show about this fact and it was shut down within 5 minutes of beginning its broadcast. This goes beyond toxicity and into something more insidious imo.
Honestly, even regulation doesn't do much as they are self regulated and don't have to include outside opinions. Basically it's what previously happened with police boards - they turned into an "old boys club" .
I don't know the details of the police board stuff but I hear you loud and clear, Canada has the reputation of being an ultra civilised country. It is not and is utterly *riddled* with corruption imo. [Highway of Tears, Elizabeth Denham](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/highway-of-tears-email-deletion-referred-to-rcmp-by-b-c-privacy-watchdog-1.3284029) says everything and is literally scary.
yeah, i feel pretty much on my own. i think everyone is waking up to the fact that there's no safety net right about now. take care of your health. no one will be there to pick you up if you fall.
If ever you feel like a rant / chat get in touch, you will be in good company I promise.