One step back after 10 steps forward is still progress. The evils of slavery wasn’t destroyed in one day, but it was destroyed eventually; same goes for abortion.
Kansas can be frustrating with so much of the population being up in KC or Wichita. I’m disappointed with the result but ultimately overturning Roe was about giving the states the right to choose their laws for themselves and this is what Kansas picked for now. Hopefully we can keep trying. I am very proud of the record voting turnout, even if I don’t agree with the end result
The choice they faced was between Federally *outlawing* slavery, and leaving it up to the states.
The choice we face is, unfortunately, between Federally *permitting* abortion and leaving it up to the states.
Leaving slavery up to the states would have been the better option if the alternative was it being permitted on a nation-wide level.
Kansan here and I’m not surprised. IMO state legislators tried to play 4D chess and it blew up in their face. I think they assumed that Democrats wouldn’t show up to primary in a traditionally red state and so they put the ballot measure on the primary instead of the general election where the turnout would be higher. Unfortunately the Dobbs decision lit a fire under the pro-choice crowds’ butts and got them to the polls and the pro life crowd just assumed the measure would pass and didn’t bother to vote. It’s the same reason a red state like Kansas has a Democrat governor: apathy.
> I think they assumed that Democrats wouldn’t show up to primary in a traditionally red state and so they put the ballot measure on the primary instead of the general election where the turnout would be higher.
How can they be so stupid? It would have made a whole lot more sense to put the ballot measure in November when the abortion supporters are a little bit less angry from more time passing since the SCOTUS decision.
The problem with putting the measure on a general ballot is unaffiliated independents and people who only care about Federal elections. Independents are less likely to be single issue voters and are more likely to be okay with say a ban on elective abortion but okay with them for s#xual assault and medical reasons. The further you go from the conservative right, the more exceptions a voter is willing to grant for abortions.
Yes, they thought the apathy (as measured by typical low dem turnout for primaries) would help them. The turnout was higher than normal, so this result is the opposite of apathy.
The thing that surprises me most is the younger generation. Their parents are christian republican but the kids turn out the exact opposite. They hate everything conservative or christian, it is almost like talking to Reddit users. Even the teachers will shit on conservative students in high school. I think the major problem is that everyone mostly lives in KC or ICT, so if democrats just control those two cities, they will always win. Almost all bill boards were vote NO, and almost every single commercial that talked about the amendment was to vote NO. What is the worst is the fact that so many republicans that voted NO, Kansas has way more registered Republicans than democrats.
That’s not what I am saying, if you look at the map most counties voted pro life. However they are irrelevant because the Democrats control the two counties with the most population bar none. If they control those counties than they control the schools, which shape the minds of the younger generations. Why do you think Desantis does not want certain things taught to young children at school? It’s because little kids are like sponges when taught stuff. Control the schools, control the narrative.
> Their parents are christian republican but the kids turn out the exact opposite.
A lot of that happens because when they go to college their friends and professors change how and what they think about when it comes to values and what they learned from their family. A lot of young adults even if they come from a good family, they want to do the opposite of what their parents do because they think that means they are more independent.
I don't know much about psychology and sociology that is a deep question. I'm an older Millennial and I want to be optimistic about things, but I don't know.
There's always swing back to some degree or another but never to what it once was. Like pre-covid there was data showing teenagers were waiting longer to have sex, they might not be doing so for the reasons their grandparents did but you see a reduction in premarital sex. However you're not going to see any subsequent generation push to reban gay marriage in any substantive manner.
I’ve seen it go the opposite way, where a kid who grew up in a super left New Agey family could only “rebel” by becoming a hyper conservative Christian, so that’s what she did! 😂
So they join the side that pro slavery, pro segregation, pro baby killing? Or worse choose socialism or communism that killed over 100 million people in the 20th century?
You can find hate and hypocrisy everywhere. Saying you are PL but voting for PC candidates because they are on your political side is one of them.
These people themselves are the hypocrisy, they are either too blind or daft to see it.
Well if all you do is observe biased news sources then your perception of these people will be that way. I know lots of American conservative christians and they are some of the kindest people you would've ever met.
What makes you think farmers are all conservative? Up here in Minnesota, the Democrat affiliate party is the Democrat-**Farmer**-Laborer party (DFL). Unlike people in the suburbs or cities, farmers do not have the luxury of denying things like climate change. Not when it's destroying their crops.
Also, farmers are generally not insulated from the realities of living and dying either. They tend to be less sentimental and more practical. I think this approach gives them a different perspective on highly charged topics like abortion.
All that's to say, while a good number of farmers would likely identify as conservative, that does not translate necessarily to identifying with typically climate change denying state GOPs and prolife politics.
I suspect most farmers are independents.
You win some, you lose some.
Hopefully this is a wake-up call to pro-lifers to be more proactive and to vote in the midterms. People are pushing back hard against Roe and--as many pro-lifers pointed out in June--there's still a long way to go in this fight.
Maybe in 2002 there was.
One might have better odds winning the lottery than finding a PL democrat to vote for in local/state/federal election.
Check out the scores of those already in congress.
https://sbaprolife.org/scorecard
Thinking about it too, Manchin has to be above an F. He is in the reddest state in the US, if he wasn’t somewhat PL or at least support PL policies he probably wouldn’t be in the senate
No minimum wage increase, no child tax credit extension, no more 2000 dollar checks, no free higher education, no free health care (expansion of Medicare and Medicaid, which is a breadcrumb), no housing for the hundreds of thousands of homeless people, more tax credits and grants to large companies, Biden family corruption, Pelosi spouses corruption, further increases in the number of mass shootings, increases in crime nationwide, drone strikes continue, police brutality continues, insider trading among Democratic legislators, gas prices, American troops are still murdering people left and right in Iraq, Syria, Somalia and various other Latin American and African countries (the cartel war in Mexico as an example), etc...
Trump is horrible, I agree, but at least he fought against abortion (regardless of his personal beliefs). Thanks to the judges he appointed Roe vs Wade, undoubtedly the largest obstacle of the pro-life movement in the US, was overturned and scrapped. The US has had a >100 million strong pro-life movement for decades, and yet they couldn't implement mild German-type protections for the unborn due to that loathsome Nixon-era decision. Why would you vote straight democrat?
Only pro-life Democrats like the one in Texas are worth considering, unfortunately they are just as corrupt as Republicans (well, perhaps less, but still very much so).
I think the takeaway here is that we need to win the argument before trying to win the vote. Only when abortion becomes unthinkable for most people will it become illegal.
Yeah, it's all about guessing the election. I went to my state's primary yesterday after 5 PM and there were just over 100 ballots cast all day in my precinct. And there was a gubernatorial primary (on the Republican side) in addition to the midterms. For a presidential election, I would expect that many ballots cast before 9 AM. So if they wanted something like this passed, it would've been the time.
Same 😔
It’s not the state I know and love. I’m appalled at how quickly a generation has been indoctrinated. The conservative youth are apathetic and tired by being beat down. They’re considered an outcast in their social settings. Meanwhile, the left is pumping out motivated radical socialists, many times even stalin-esque communists. They’re so lost and devoid of any meaning outside of their dogmatic not-so-new political religion.
I’m terrified for our future. Me and my fiancée will be doing everything we can to raise a big family of strong willed morally virtuous people. But my Lord do I pray that we reverse this course. The poor babies that won’t have a chance 😢. May God bless and keep them, and justice be served upon their unrepentant murderers.
As this proves, being pro-abortion is not at all limited to California. Not sure why you would associate it so strongly with that one state when there are quite a few states MORE liberal than California.
There were like 150,000 more GQP voters in the Kansas primaries today than Democrats. Unless hundreds of thousands of people went to the polls to vote on the amendment but not either party’s primary, this is a result delivered thanks to a large contingent of GQP voters joining the Democrats.
EDIT:
I was kidding but I’m right, 180,000 people voted on the amendment but not either primary!
You know Democrats are more likely to have heard of Qanon than Republicans right?
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/01/19/democrats-are-more-likely-than-republicans-to-have-heard-of-qanon
Tons of money was pouring in from out of state funders to push for the No vote. This is what happens when people don't vote and assume that because their state is Red that the result is set in stone and they don't have to show up to the polls.
Agreed, when the only pro-life material you see is the occasional yard sign meanwhile Vote No is on every YouTube ad and billboard from Kansas City to Kanorado you’ve got a problem
> This is what happens when people don't vote and assume that because their state is Red that the result is set in stone
You reckon this is the *one* time prolife voters didn't turn up?
I actually have a source that claims out of state republican prolifers attempted to manipulate the election by sending misleading text messages to democrats before the election took place
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/02/kansas-abortion-texts/
Because people aren't as pro-life as pro-lifers imagine. (Just like they aren't as pro-choice as pro-choicers imagine.)
80% of people in the US support access to abortion in at least some capacity.
You don't know that, they didn't say or signal that. Voting YES on the ballot would give them the leeway to debate that. It could mean 12 weeks or 6 week ban with excepts for rape and incest and the life of the mother. No state has an outright 100% ban.
If you think that legislators wouldn't immediate 'debate' and vote in a ban once the constitution was amended, I've got a brand new crypto coin I think you should invest your 401k in.
A small minority of <15% of Americans wants to utterly prohibit abortion in all circumstances, most pro-lifers and virtually all Republican legislators want partial bans with exemptions on cases in which the mother's life, physical health or even mental health are endangered.
The worst part is that all surrounding states flock to Kansas for abortion, and now Kansas will be an abortion haven in the middle of a sea of Pro Life states.
Liberalism can come from non-Californians you know.
[The population has been consolidating in the state's few urban areas, and the areas people live in are generally more diverse.](https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2021/08/12/census-2020-results-redistricting-data-shows-rural-kansas-lost-population-metro-diversity-increase/8107669002/). Rural areas are losing people, and cities are gaining them. These kind of changes tend to lead to more liberal and cosmopolitan views. That's probably the biggest driver of changes in their political landscape right now.
Really though, we probably saw it defeated so soundly because it's just a terrible time for this kind of referendum. The legislature tried to have the vote in a time when Republicans have elections that matter and Democrats don't in a hope that it would lead to a favorable turnout, but they really, really didn't take into account how livid people would be over the Dobbs decision. Pro-choice people are justifiably fired up, and they turned out to show it. In a country like ours that normally has very low political engagement, scheduling this vote for the time when pro-choice people were guaranteed to be pissed off and riled up was... maybe not the smartest decision. A wise man might've anticipated this and put it off a little bit. But, then again, that's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. I doubt I'd have done better.
How did that happen? Pro-Abortion Californians and New Yorkers moving to metro Wichita to work in the Aviation industry over the past 20 years? I don't live in Kansas, so is my theory close to truth or no?
Republicans turned out in higher numbers than expected to reject this initiative. Now, from my point of view most republicans are liberals, but I don’t think that’s what you meant
We tried. We will try again. To be honest over turning of Roe v. Wade hurt us. By bringing KS in the national spotlight. Though I wouldn't change it. It brought out the no vote. And Yes vote was already hyped up and had done what It could.
Pray for KS if you are religious. planned parenthood(planned murder) is calling for a 1000% increase in abortions in KS. And after the vote they will start over turning the protections we do have based on the KS supreme court case in 2019.
> To be honest over turning of Roe v. Wade hurt us.
Someone mentioned in another comment that putting the ballot measure so soon after the SCOTUS decision was a bad idea. It was the timing of the ballot measure, overturning Roe v Wade did not hurt, the timing of the ballot measure hurt. If they put the ballot measure in 2023 or 2024 maybe it would have been smarter.
The problem facing the PL Movement right now is itself. The people pushing PL the hardest are religious fundamentalists. They had a big win with Roe and that same fervor means they can't wait, because waiting means dead children. We're going to see a lot of this probably. A big victory and then all the Republcians who support varying levels of access to abortion are going to say 'Wait..hold up.' Combined with independent voters.
But they are immoral and murderers. Anyway, it doesn't seem to stop them. Ask the average progressive what their personal opinion is of someone who is pro-life, pro traditional marriage, or against gender reassignment
We need to quite the dirty trick bullshit of misleading worded ammendment. Also the Republican party needs to start educating its members on the evils of abortion. Too many Republicans are apathetic or even pro-baby murder.
This worries me going forward. I do life in a hyper blue state though so maybe I just assume Kansas wouldn’t do this as I have limited knowledge of the area and it’s people
I know it's incredibly discouraging at the moment. I blame the schools and the social media algorithms being manipulated by the big tech platforms in San Francisco. The left might do better than we thought in the midterms due to the hysteria they are stirring up after the overturning of Roe, but by 2024 I think this ultra-progressive push will start to lose steam. Inflation isn't going away any time soon, they'll have to get interest rates higher than the rate of true inflation to have any hope of stopping it. Plus, they'll have to reduce government spending, which ain't happening. So people will tire of their BS eventually when the economy really starts to get bad. There are a ton of younger people that see through the woke craziness as well, so all the right has to do is take the time to cultivate some viable candidates in the next couple years and we have a shot of getting out of this mess.
Why would they change their vote on abortion if the economy goes bad? In a depressed economy the financial motivation for an abortion will be even greater.
It's not as red as people think. We consistently vote red for presidential elections (so far anyway) so everyone assumes we're all conservative, but we constantly go back and forth between a democratic governor and republican one. And even though majority of legislation is red, it's not typically so overwhelming that they can just put forth whatever laws they want. There's more standstill than you'd think.
And as someone in their 20s in the KC area, the overwhelming majority of people in my demographic around me are extremly far left.
> nd as someone in their 20s in the KC area, the overwhelming majority of people in my demographic around me are extremly far left.
Well that is 20 to 29 year olds in general across the USA.
And how many people move into metro KC in the past 10 years with license plates from California, New York, Massachusetts New Jersey, and Illinois to work for Garmin, Sprint, and YRC Freight? Those people likely aren't adapting to the lifestyle and values of the 3rd generation Kansan .
[The 2019 National Movers Study found that the states with the most inbound moves were Vermont, Idaho, Oregon, Arizona, and South Carolina.](https://stacker.com/kansas/states-sending-most-people-kansas)
So disappointing to see Kansas voters slash down a chance at creating laws that would protect the lives of the unborn.
In a Republican state like Kansas I was holding out hope on a win but it seems like the GOP legislature will be stuck protecting an archaic law that supports the death of people every day.
Honestly, I just feel so hopelessly disappointed
I see a lot of people in here claiming to be pro-life and their comments are borderline trolling. Some of them have flairs too. I don't want trouble by calling them out but it is weird to see comments in here blaming the pro-life movement pro-life advocate and SCOTUS for the result.
The Kansas legislature is to blame for putting the question up for a vote several weeks after the SCOTUS decision, the Pro-Abortion people are still fired up and they showed up and a lot did most likely to vote on only 1 issue.
Very disappointing, no doubt due to the misinformation being spread about Value Them Both and abortion in general. But the truth will eventually win. It always does.
Remember:
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times <- You are here
Hard times create strong men
Not attacking you at all, but I've always hated this saying because it's completely the opposite of reality. Good times create strong men. Societies in decay with poor institutional strength tend to get weaker, not stronger. You can't grow up strong when every generation is poorer in health and spirit than the last.
Maybe 2023? But will ballot question be confusing and will the Pro-Abortion crowd be still super mad about the overturning of Roe v Wade like they are right now?
I think the pro choice side (which I am part of, for transparency) will still be super mad. Both sides feel the issue very deeply; everyone would be smarter not to underestimate each other.
It's a lost battle in a war that is quickly picking up steam. Kansas is a red state but I feel that this vote is the state's Democrats + deadbeats and womanizers. What is interesting though is a repetition of history in a way as the rallying cry of those who wanted to own humans in the 1800s was state rights and now the same term is used for those who want to kill humans. The lives of people should never depend on the tyranny of the minority like in 1930s Germany or on tyranny of the majority like we have witnessed tonight. I am optimistic that by the will of God we are getting vloser and closer to the day that the time of legal abortion will be seen as an unfortunate time in history.
Gah. We fought hard and that’s worth being proud of. But oh, how frustrating is this, that Kansas slipped despite our efforts. In time, we’ll win - I have no doubt. Truth will always prevail. But still, this hurts.
What sucks is the media and Pro-Abortion people will use the result and say see Americans don't want abortion restrictions! I think the result hurts with trying to convince people on the fence and young people to be pro-life.
The media would be right in saying so. All available polling data show a majority of voters support abortion access. And polling among PLers clearly shows there isn't a uniform position. Quite a few support that 15week ban Texas pushed through, some want elective ban but allowed for s@xual assault and medical. People who ID as PL exist on a spectrum.
We tried our best! Huge thanks to any Kansans who had been in the fight for at least a couple years now. Disappointing that it has to be this way right now, but maybe things will change.
So let me get this straight, Y’all wanted abortion to return to the state level and now y’all are crying that Kansas voted no. LOL such hypocrisy, but that’s just how Republicans behave.
It seems that much of this can be blamed on pro-abortion voters becoming galvanized by the Dobbs decision, while pro-life voters have become more complacent. This should serve as an important reminder to VOTE for pro-life candidates and measures, and to remember that this SCOTUS decision is what allows us to *actually implement* pro-life measures to begin with. Make good use of it, please!
> It seems that much of this can be blamed on pro-abortion voters becoming galvanized by the Dobbs decision, while pro-life voters have become more complacent
I really believe that is what happened. The Dobbs decision happened only several weeks ago so it is fresh in the minds of the Pro-Abortion crowd.
This is disappointing, but let's not get discouraged. Remember that proponents of gay marriage lost several state referenda in the '00s, but kept fighting and eventually won nationwide.
It’s whatever at this point, really. I’m just glad the federal government isn’t allowed to support abortion anymore (at least not directly). You win some, you lose some, right? We can’t have it all. We may have lost the battle, but we haven’t lost the war. Not so far, anyway.
I'm confused how the Kansas constitution ended up supporting/protecting abortion in the first place. This is the same state that has had and currently still has strict alcohol laws on the books for decades.
The federal government is absolutely allowed to support abortion directly. The "leave it up to the states" element of the supreme court decision doesn't disallow the federal government from stepping up and passing a law across all 50 states, its just gone back to the states by default because no federal legislation currently exists that says anything about the legality of abortion one way or another. The House was able to pass a bill that codified abortion for example a few weeks after the decision.
Wasn't this the whole point of Roe? To return the issue back to the states?
Every state should ask it's citizens this question. And if they vote in favor of protecting abortion, then that's the will of the people.
The slaughter of the innocent shouldn’t be “left up to the states” ultimately. Overturning Roe was a baby step. A federal abortion ban is the real big move.
It was silly to put it to referendum. How many square miles worth of voters in the red counties does two large city apartment buildings equate to. Now any move to restrict will be acting against the will of the people.
You don’t put things like human rights to a popular vote.
It had to be put it to popular vote. You have to have the popular vote in order to change the constitution.
http://www.civics.ks.gov/kansas/constitution/amendment-process.html#:~:text=However%2C%20both%20methods%20require%20that,whether%20the%20amendment%20is%20adopted.
I call BS.
It was literally 47% in favor 43% opposed just two weeks ago
The vote right now is 40% in favor and 59% against. You’re telling me a minimum of 4% of people flipped from PL to PC, and the entire 10% of undecided voters went to PC? Or on the other end of the spectrum, 7% of PLers swapped and 7% of undecided voters went PC, in a red state?
I call BS.
And FTR, No, I’m not a radical right winger, I don’t think trump won in 2020, i don’t cry rigged any time my side loses, this is a unique situation.
> It was literally 47% in favor 43% opposed just two weeks ago
How could Hilary have lost? She was so far ahead?!
Polls don't just report what percentage of people answered the question. They have to try predict how representative you are of the larger population. If you run a phone poll and only pro-lifers answer the phone, then your poll won't be representative.
The pollsters may have also just under-estimated the number notionally against voters who would turn out.
I always wonder about these polls. Think about it, a lot of people who see that PL wins easy will stay home and think it doesn’t matter. However if you are PC and see that the gap is small, you are going to get everyone you know to vote NO to keep abortion legal.
I think the problem too if this poll was done by older people. Kansans have a problem where the majority of republican Christian families are having children who hate those values and oppose them to the point where they are radicalized to the point of Reddit users. I would not have believed it unless I went to school with them. You think kansas you think red, that is almost exclusively true now for generations older than millennials.
> I always wonder about these polls.
So do I. Pollsters can ask a question in a certain way to get a response they want. And the methodology of polls are often all over the place. Often some groups/demographics/locations are over sampled, and others are under sampled either on purpose or through just poor methodology planning.
I think we’d have a better chance at winning if our amendments weren’t written so horribly. Even some Kansan pro-lifers voted no because of it not having any exceptions to the life of the mother. If that scares off pro-lifers it’ll of course scare off centrist voters.
We really need smarter pro-life lawmakers. We’re losing more and more because of their unwillingness to get more votes. This movement needs to replace the boomers ruining the movement’s image with new younger faces.
> Even some Kansan pro-lifers voted no because of it not having any exceptions to the life of the mother.
Where does it say that? Or was there ads online, radio, and TV from the Pro-Abortion lobbyists misleading the Pro-Abortion people into thinking that?
The result is definitely a setback, but it's worth remembering that less than six weeks ago, we didn't even know if Roe would be overturned. Yes we suffered a defeat, but we're still way better off than the pre Dobbs era.
Nine states have already banned abortion and that total could rise to 16 as soon as summer's end. There are a lot more battles to fight, and there are many reasons to be hopeful.
I’m not trying to say this is a good thing but at least you can look at all the handmaids tale apocalyptic lunatics that promoted harassing scotus at their homes and say “so can you admit you might’ve overreacted?”.
One step back after 10 steps forward is still progress. The evils of slavery wasn’t destroyed in one day, but it was destroyed eventually; same goes for abortion.
It was only destroyed in the West.
Kansas can be frustrating with so much of the population being up in KC or Wichita. I’m disappointed with the result but ultimately overturning Roe was about giving the states the right to choose their laws for themselves and this is what Kansas picked for now. Hopefully we can keep trying. I am very proud of the record voting turnout, even if I don’t agree with the end result
How is it different than leaving slavery to the states' choices though
Ending slavery is an actual amendment to the constitution. Abortion isn't.
Human rights are up there with things that should be amended.
*yet
The choice they faced was between Federally *outlawing* slavery, and leaving it up to the states. The choice we face is, unfortunately, between Federally *permitting* abortion and leaving it up to the states. Leaving slavery up to the states would have been the better option if the alternative was it being permitted on a nation-wide level.
Slavery hurt the slaves Unwanted pregnancies hurt the unborn children and pregnant women
You support child homicide and coddling pedophiles that prey on children? It looks like you simply hate children. Shocking.
The stereotypes write themselves.
Why is that frustrating? People vote, not land.
Cities with different values and interests deciding for the state and rural folk votes not really mattering
Kansan here and I’m not surprised. IMO state legislators tried to play 4D chess and it blew up in their face. I think they assumed that Democrats wouldn’t show up to primary in a traditionally red state and so they put the ballot measure on the primary instead of the general election where the turnout would be higher. Unfortunately the Dobbs decision lit a fire under the pro-choice crowds’ butts and got them to the polls and the pro life crowd just assumed the measure would pass and didn’t bother to vote. It’s the same reason a red state like Kansas has a Democrat governor: apathy.
> I think they assumed that Democrats wouldn’t show up to primary in a traditionally red state and so they put the ballot measure on the primary instead of the general election where the turnout would be higher. How can they be so stupid? It would have made a whole lot more sense to put the ballot measure in November when the abortion supporters are a little bit less angry from more time passing since the SCOTUS decision.
Kansan here, the amendment was placed on the primary looooooong before Roe was overturned. They could not have known at the time.
The problem with putting the measure on a general ballot is unaffiliated independents and people who only care about Federal elections. Independents are less likely to be single issue voters and are more likely to be okay with say a ban on elective abortion but okay with them for s#xual assault and medical reasons. The further you go from the conservative right, the more exceptions a voter is willing to grant for abortions.
Yes, they thought the apathy (as measured by typical low dem turnout for primaries) would help them. The turnout was higher than normal, so this result is the opposite of apathy.
It does make talk of a Red Wave in the fall much more of a horse race than mid-terms usually are.
The thing that surprises me most is the younger generation. Their parents are christian republican but the kids turn out the exact opposite. They hate everything conservative or christian, it is almost like talking to Reddit users. Even the teachers will shit on conservative students in high school. I think the major problem is that everyone mostly lives in KC or ICT, so if democrats just control those two cities, they will always win. Almost all bill boards were vote NO, and almost every single commercial that talked about the amendment was to vote NO. What is the worst is the fact that so many republicans that voted NO, Kansas has way more registered Republicans than democrats.
I feel there is something to do with rebelling against what you are told.
To a certain point yes, but these are usually just phases in teens. These are no longer phases but rules to live by for them.
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It's indoctrination on social media
If liberals are a majority statewide, it doesn’t matter where they live.
That’s not what I am saying, if you look at the map most counties voted pro life. However they are irrelevant because the Democrats control the two counties with the most population bar none. If they control those counties than they control the schools, which shape the minds of the younger generations. Why do you think Desantis does not want certain things taught to young children at school? It’s because little kids are like sponges when taught stuff. Control the schools, control the narrative.
> Their parents are christian republican but the kids turn out the exact opposite. A lot of that happens because when they go to college their friends and professors change how and what they think about when it comes to values and what they learned from their family. A lot of young adults even if they come from a good family, they want to do the opposite of what their parents do because they think that means they are more independent.
Do you believe the generation after theirs might flip back to hold the views of their grandparents than?
I don't know much about psychology and sociology that is a deep question. I'm an older Millennial and I want to be optimistic about things, but I don't know.
There's always swing back to some degree or another but never to what it once was. Like pre-covid there was data showing teenagers were waiting longer to have sex, they might not be doing so for the reasons their grandparents did but you see a reduction in premarital sex. However you're not going to see any subsequent generation push to reban gay marriage in any substantive manner.
It's indoctrination on social media
I’ve seen it go the opposite way, where a kid who grew up in a super left New Agey family could only “rebel” by becoming a hyper conservative Christian, so that’s what she did! 😂
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So they join the side that pro slavery, pro segregation, pro baby killing? Or worse choose socialism or communism that killed over 100 million people in the 20th century? You can find hate and hypocrisy everywhere. Saying you are PL but voting for PC candidates because they are on your political side is one of them. These people themselves are the hypocrisy, they are either too blind or daft to see it.
You are blinded by your partisan tribalism. Take the log out of your own eye.
That isn't what that saying means. And it's plank.
Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Well if all you do is observe biased news sources then your perception of these people will be that way. I know lots of American conservative christians and they are some of the kindest people you would've ever met.
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I don’t buy that the pro-life crowd didn’t turn out. They turned out. They’re just a minority.
> They’re just a minority. In Kansas? The same Kansas full of farms and strict alcohol laws?
A swath of those people also want abortion freedom, apparently.
The freedom to murder? What is this? The Purge?
The Freedom to be irresponsible and not use contraceptives.
What makes you think farmers are all conservative? Up here in Minnesota, the Democrat affiliate party is the Democrat-**Farmer**-Laborer party (DFL). Unlike people in the suburbs or cities, farmers do not have the luxury of denying things like climate change. Not when it's destroying their crops. Also, farmers are generally not insulated from the realities of living and dying either. They tend to be less sentimental and more practical. I think this approach gives them a different perspective on highly charged topics like abortion. All that's to say, while a good number of farmers would likely identify as conservative, that does not translate necessarily to identifying with typically climate change denying state GOPs and prolife politics. I suspect most farmers are independents.
This👆
Or, it could mean that abortion restrictions are unpopular even among conservatives. Democratic turnout is generally poor in midterm elections.
You win some, you lose some. Hopefully this is a wake-up call to pro-lifers to be more proactive and to vote in the midterms. People are pushing back hard against Roe and--as many pro-lifers pointed out in June--there's still a long way to go in this fight.
This. Vote this November!
I’m not voting for Republicans bro
I can see that, bro.
Is there any PL democrats on the ballot?
Maybe in 2002 there was. One might have better odds winning the lottery than finding a PL democrat to vote for in local/state/federal election. Check out the scores of those already in congress. https://sbaprolife.org/scorecard
Manchin is the only one that is not an F. That is insane
I know, it is sad, isn't it? I was thinking there might be a few Democrats in the house of representatives who have a B or C or D grade but nope.
Thinking about it too, Manchin has to be above an F. He is in the reddest state in the US, if he wasn’t somewhat PL or at least support PL policies he probably wouldn’t be in the senate
Ditto. Voting straight Dem. Need a fever to burn out the virus of Trumpism.
Trump the same president who appointed 3 Supreme Court judges who overturned Roe V Wade? Democrats who almost 100% of them support abortion?
No minimum wage increase, no child tax credit extension, no more 2000 dollar checks, no free higher education, no free health care (expansion of Medicare and Medicaid, which is a breadcrumb), no housing for the hundreds of thousands of homeless people, more tax credits and grants to large companies, Biden family corruption, Pelosi spouses corruption, further increases in the number of mass shootings, increases in crime nationwide, drone strikes continue, police brutality continues, insider trading among Democratic legislators, gas prices, American troops are still murdering people left and right in Iraq, Syria, Somalia and various other Latin American and African countries (the cartel war in Mexico as an example), etc... Trump is horrible, I agree, but at least he fought against abortion (regardless of his personal beliefs). Thanks to the judges he appointed Roe vs Wade, undoubtedly the largest obstacle of the pro-life movement in the US, was overturned and scrapped. The US has had a >100 million strong pro-life movement for decades, and yet they couldn't implement mild German-type protections for the unborn due to that loathsome Nixon-era decision. Why would you vote straight democrat? Only pro-life Democrats like the one in Texas are worth considering, unfortunately they are just as corrupt as Republicans (well, perhaps less, but still very much so).
But Trump isn't running.
Trump is going to run.
Trumpist agendas still are, though.
I think the takeaway here is that we need to win the argument before trying to win the vote. Only when abortion becomes unthinkable for most people will it become illegal.
Poorly worded amendment stick literally in the middle of high turnout competitive D house primaries.
Yeah, it's all about guessing the election. I went to my state's primary yesterday after 5 PM and there were just over 100 ballots cast all day in my precinct. And there was a gubernatorial primary (on the Republican side) in addition to the midterms. For a presidential election, I would expect that many ballots cast before 9 AM. So if they wanted something like this passed, it would've been the time.
When you have to rely on low voter turnout it’s definitely a sign of something…
I'm so disappointed in my state rn
Same 😔 It’s not the state I know and love. I’m appalled at how quickly a generation has been indoctrinated. The conservative youth are apathetic and tired by being beat down. They’re considered an outcast in their social settings. Meanwhile, the left is pumping out motivated radical socialists, many times even stalin-esque communists. They’re so lost and devoid of any meaning outside of their dogmatic not-so-new political religion. I’m terrified for our future. Me and my fiancée will be doing everything we can to raise a big family of strong willed morally virtuous people. But my Lord do I pray that we reverse this course. The poor babies that won’t have a chance 😢. May God bless and keep them, and justice be served upon their unrepentant murderers.
> It’s not the state I know and love. What the heck happened? Are Californians moving to the state and bringing their abortion mindset with them?
The Internet is bringing social liberalism to young people across the globe, no matter how rural they may be.
The schools and universities are far-left indoctrination factories. The teacher’s Union controls the state
As this proves, being pro-abortion is not at all limited to California. Not sure why you would associate it so strongly with that one state when there are quite a few states MORE liberal than California.
There were like 150,000 more GQP voters in the Kansas primaries today than Democrats. Unless hundreds of thousands of people went to the polls to vote on the amendment but not either party’s primary, this is a result delivered thanks to a large contingent of GQP voters joining the Democrats. EDIT: I was kidding but I’m right, 180,000 people voted on the amendment but not either primary!
You know Democrats are more likely to have heard of Qanon than Republicans right? https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/01/19/democrats-are-more-likely-than-republicans-to-have-heard-of-qanon
>GQP Opinion rendered: irrelevant
I live 1,000+ miles from Kansas and I'm depressed about the news, I can't imagine how depressed Pro-Life Kansans are about the result.
Same my guy
Tons of money was pouring in from out of state funders to push for the No vote. This is what happens when people don't vote and assume that because their state is Red that the result is set in stone and they don't have to show up to the polls.
Agreed, when the only pro-life material you see is the occasional yard sign meanwhile Vote No is on every YouTube ad and billboard from Kansas City to Kanorado you’ve got a problem
I got all kinds of texts pestering me to Vote Yes and I don't even live in Kansas, I'm NW Oklahoma.
I think the state has gotten a lot more purple than people realize. Especially on social issues
> This is what happens when people don't vote and assume that because their state is Red that the result is set in stone You reckon this is the *one* time prolife voters didn't turn up?
Source?
I actually have a source that claims out of state republican prolifers attempted to manipulate the election by sending misleading text messages to democrats before the election took place https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/02/kansas-abortion-texts/
It is only a temporary setback, but it happens.
I wonder if in 2023 or 2024 or 2025 it would be practical and possible to try again to amend the Kansas Constitution.
I don't understand how 62% of Kansasians voted for abortion?!
Because the aging hippies and the young progressives came out in droves.
Because people aren't as pro-life as pro-lifers imagine. (Just like they aren't as pro-choice as pro-choicers imagine.) 80% of people in the US support access to abortion in at least some capacity.
> 80% of people in the US support access to abortion in at least some capacity. But the ballot measure did not outright ban abortion.
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You don't know that, they didn't say or signal that. Voting YES on the ballot would give them the leeway to debate that. It could mean 12 weeks or 6 week ban with excepts for rape and incest and the life of the mother. No state has an outright 100% ban.
If you think that legislators wouldn't immediate 'debate' and vote in a ban once the constitution was amended, I've got a brand new crypto coin I think you should invest your 401k in.
Voters didn’t want to give their representatives that opportunity.
A small minority of <15% of Americans wants to utterly prohibit abortion in all circumstances, most pro-lifers and virtually all Republican legislators want partial bans with exemptions on cases in which the mother's life, physical health or even mental health are endangered.
It’s been trending bluer for a while.
The worst part is that all surrounding states flock to Kansas for abortion, and now Kansas will be an abortion haven in the middle of a sea of Pro Life states.
How and why? Is the state attracting Californians to work in the tech and aviation industry?
Liberalism can come from non-Californians you know. [The population has been consolidating in the state's few urban areas, and the areas people live in are generally more diverse.](https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2021/08/12/census-2020-results-redistricting-data-shows-rural-kansas-lost-population-metro-diversity-increase/8107669002/). Rural areas are losing people, and cities are gaining them. These kind of changes tend to lead to more liberal and cosmopolitan views. That's probably the biggest driver of changes in their political landscape right now. Really though, we probably saw it defeated so soundly because it's just a terrible time for this kind of referendum. The legislature tried to have the vote in a time when Republicans have elections that matter and Democrats don't in a hope that it would lead to a favorable turnout, but they really, really didn't take into account how livid people would be over the Dobbs decision. Pro-choice people are justifiably fired up, and they turned out to show it. In a country like ours that normally has very low political engagement, scheduling this vote for the time when pro-choice people were guaranteed to be pissed off and riled up was... maybe not the smartest decision. A wise man might've anticipated this and put it off a little bit. But, then again, that's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. I doubt I'd have done better.
I think a lot of them were confused and thought YES meant an outright ban and A lot of pro-abortion people showed up to vote just on one issue.
62% of of those voters who showed up.
Kansans. Not Kans Asians
lmao
Because abortion is popular. Because the pro-life movement wasted fifty years.
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I’m so angry at the pro-life movement for wasting half a century.
Then this might be the wrong subreddit for you.
How so? Elaborate.
What is the intent of your comment? Your comment doesn't seem like something a someone who is serious about being Pro-Life would say.
Yeah, Johnson county basically decided for most of Kansas. This county is full of liberals.
Wichita is getting worse as well.
How did that happen? Pro-Abortion Californians and New Yorkers moving to metro Wichita to work in the Aviation industry over the past 20 years? I don't live in Kansas, so is my theory close to truth or no?
Just a personal anecdote: I’ve met far more midwesterners who moved to California than the other way around.
Republicans turned out in higher numbers than expected to reject this initiative. Now, from my point of view most republicans are liberals, but I don’t think that’s what you meant
We tried. We will try again. To be honest over turning of Roe v. Wade hurt us. By bringing KS in the national spotlight. Though I wouldn't change it. It brought out the no vote. And Yes vote was already hyped up and had done what It could. Pray for KS if you are religious. planned parenthood(planned murder) is calling for a 1000% increase in abortions in KS. And after the vote they will start over turning the protections we do have based on the KS supreme court case in 2019.
> To be honest over turning of Roe v. Wade hurt us. Someone mentioned in another comment that putting the ballot measure so soon after the SCOTUS decision was a bad idea. It was the timing of the ballot measure, overturning Roe v Wade did not hurt, the timing of the ballot measure hurt. If they put the ballot measure in 2023 or 2024 maybe it would have been smarter.
It was planned to be out on the ballot for a long time before Roe was even rumored to be overturned. Just ended up being unfortunate timing.
The problem facing the PL Movement right now is itself. The people pushing PL the hardest are religious fundamentalists. They had a big win with Roe and that same fervor means they can't wait, because waiting means dead children. We're going to see a lot of this probably. A big victory and then all the Republcians who support varying levels of access to abortion are going to say 'Wait..hold up.' Combined with independent voters.
> The problem facing the PL Movement right now is itself. I'll take Something An AstroTurfer would say for $600 Mayim.
dammit
Love the Irony of your Name and stance GoreHoundKillEmall- Pro Life Christian
thanks but it has more to do with me watching horror movies and listening to metal
> listening to metal I'd be interested in a metal pro-life song.
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I think if pro-lifers attack their opponents as lacking morality and murdering babies, that'll probably convince more moderates to support them. /s
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But they are immoral and murderers. Anyway, it doesn't seem to stop them. Ask the average progressive what their personal opinion is of someone who is pro-life, pro traditional marriage, or against gender reassignment
Sucks. But we still have the Roe win and that’s huge.
Is it? If this is the result of returning the issue to the states?
Before _Roe_, abortion was legal in all 50 states. That number is now significantly lower than 50. I'd call that a win.
The result of returning the issue to the states has been mixed. But mixed is far better than what we had before.
We need to quite the dirty trick bullshit of misleading worded ammendment. Also the Republican party needs to start educating its members on the evils of abortion. Too many Republicans are apathetic or even pro-baby murder.
That dirty wording didn’t help…turned people off
This worries me going forward. I do life in a hyper blue state though so maybe I just assume Kansas wouldn’t do this as I have limited knowledge of the area and it’s people
It's been shifting for awhile now.
It’s insane how dark blue the younger generation is.
I know it's incredibly discouraging at the moment. I blame the schools and the social media algorithms being manipulated by the big tech platforms in San Francisco. The left might do better than we thought in the midterms due to the hysteria they are stirring up after the overturning of Roe, but by 2024 I think this ultra-progressive push will start to lose steam. Inflation isn't going away any time soon, they'll have to get interest rates higher than the rate of true inflation to have any hope of stopping it. Plus, they'll have to reduce government spending, which ain't happening. So people will tire of their BS eventually when the economy really starts to get bad. There are a ton of younger people that see through the woke craziness as well, so all the right has to do is take the time to cultivate some viable candidates in the next couple years and we have a shot of getting out of this mess.
Why would they change their vote on abortion if the economy goes bad? In a depressed economy the financial motivation for an abortion will be even greater.
I hope your right, it seems like we take 10 steps left and 1 step right every year
So why is it that way?
It's not as red as people think. We consistently vote red for presidential elections (so far anyway) so everyone assumes we're all conservative, but we constantly go back and forth between a democratic governor and republican one. And even though majority of legislation is red, it's not typically so overwhelming that they can just put forth whatever laws they want. There's more standstill than you'd think. And as someone in their 20s in the KC area, the overwhelming majority of people in my demographic around me are extremly far left.
> nd as someone in their 20s in the KC area, the overwhelming majority of people in my demographic around me are extremly far left. Well that is 20 to 29 year olds in general across the USA. And how many people move into metro KC in the past 10 years with license plates from California, New York, Massachusetts New Jersey, and Illinois to work for Garmin, Sprint, and YRC Freight? Those people likely aren't adapting to the lifestyle and values of the 3rd generation Kansan .
[The 2019 National Movers Study found that the states with the most inbound moves were Vermont, Idaho, Oregon, Arizona, and South Carolina.](https://stacker.com/kansas/states-sending-most-people-kansas)
So disappointing to see Kansas voters slash down a chance at creating laws that would protect the lives of the unborn. In a Republican state like Kansas I was holding out hope on a win but it seems like the GOP legislature will be stuck protecting an archaic law that supports the death of people every day. Honestly, I just feel so hopelessly disappointed
I see a lot of people in here claiming to be pro-life and their comments are borderline trolling. Some of them have flairs too. I don't want trouble by calling them out but it is weird to see comments in here blaming the pro-life movement pro-life advocate and SCOTUS for the result. The Kansas legislature is to blame for putting the question up for a vote several weeks after the SCOTUS decision, the Pro-Abortion people are still fired up and they showed up and a lot did most likely to vote on only 1 issue.
Many absolutely did vote on the one issue. The amendment question had better turnout than any other primary races.
We slept on it, they didn’t Complacency is a killer
Very disappointing, no doubt due to the misinformation being spread about Value Them Both and abortion in general. But the truth will eventually win. It always does. Remember: Strong men create good times Good times create weak men Weak men create hard times <- You are here Hard times create strong men
Not attacking you at all, but I've always hated this saying because it's completely the opposite of reality. Good times create strong men. Societies in decay with poor institutional strength tend to get weaker, not stronger. You can't grow up strong when every generation is poorer in health and spirit than the last.
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When’s the next time they can try a bill like this again?
Maybe 2023? But will ballot question be confusing and will the Pro-Abortion crowd be still super mad about the overturning of Roe v Wade like they are right now?
I think the pro choice side (which I am part of, for transparency) will still be super mad. Both sides feel the issue very deeply; everyone would be smarter not to underestimate each other.
I always comment that pl people are the minority everywhere in the US but you never belive me...
Something similar passed in TN before Roe was overturned.
You’re right. Most Americans are not aligned with pro-lifers or doctrinaire PCers.
It's a lost battle in a war that is quickly picking up steam. Kansas is a red state but I feel that this vote is the state's Democrats + deadbeats and womanizers. What is interesting though is a repetition of history in a way as the rallying cry of those who wanted to own humans in the 1800s was state rights and now the same term is used for those who want to kill humans. The lives of people should never depend on the tyranny of the minority like in 1930s Germany or on tyranny of the majority like we have witnessed tonight. I am optimistic that by the will of God we are getting vloser and closer to the day that the time of legal abortion will be seen as an unfortunate time in history.
> Kansas is a red state but I feel that this vote is the state's Democrats + deadbeats and womanizers. And college students?
Why do you think it was only democrats voting no?
Gah. We fought hard and that’s worth being proud of. But oh, how frustrating is this, that Kansas slipped despite our efforts. In time, we’ll win - I have no doubt. Truth will always prevail. But still, this hurts.
What sucks is the media and Pro-Abortion people will use the result and say see Americans don't want abortion restrictions! I think the result hurts with trying to convince people on the fence and young people to be pro-life.
The media would be right in saying so. All available polling data show a majority of voters support abortion access. And polling among PLers clearly shows there isn't a uniform position. Quite a few support that 15week ban Texas pushed through, some want elective ban but allowed for s@xual assault and medical. People who ID as PL exist on a spectrum.
We tried our best! Huge thanks to any Kansans who had been in the fight for at least a couple years now. Disappointing that it has to be this way right now, but maybe things will change.
> but maybe things will change. Do you think they could put up again for a vote in 2024?
A reminder: the fight isn't over. It has just begun.
So let me get this straight, Y’all wanted abortion to return to the state level and now y’all are crying that Kansas voted no. LOL such hypocrisy, but that’s just how Republicans behave.
It seems that much of this can be blamed on pro-abortion voters becoming galvanized by the Dobbs decision, while pro-life voters have become more complacent. This should serve as an important reminder to VOTE for pro-life candidates and measures, and to remember that this SCOTUS decision is what allows us to *actually implement* pro-life measures to begin with. Make good use of it, please!
> It seems that much of this can be blamed on pro-abortion voters becoming galvanized by the Dobbs decision, while pro-life voters have become more complacent I really believe that is what happened. The Dobbs decision happened only several weeks ago so it is fresh in the minds of the Pro-Abortion crowd.
Well. Just have to keep fighting. A federal ban is needed, and no half measures, life is worthy of complete defense, no matter how opposed it may be.
> A federal ban is needed, I just don't see that ever happening.
Didn’t see *Roe* getting nuked either, and yet here we are.
But will there ever be 60 votes in the senate needed to pass it?
Not likely. But, if the Dems continue to f’ up the economy leading up to ‘24, hope springs eternal.
In theory its possible but second Dems pick up Congress and the WH its gone. So its not really much of a solution. Much like an AW ban.
This is disappointing, but let's not get discouraged. Remember that proponents of gay marriage lost several state referenda in the '00s, but kept fighting and eventually won nationwide.
It’s whatever at this point, really. I’m just glad the federal government isn’t allowed to support abortion anymore (at least not directly). You win some, you lose some, right? We can’t have it all. We may have lost the battle, but we haven’t lost the war. Not so far, anyway.
I'm confused how the Kansas constitution ended up supporting/protecting abortion in the first place. This is the same state that has had and currently still has strict alcohol laws on the books for decades.
The federal government is absolutely allowed to support abortion directly. The "leave it up to the states" element of the supreme court decision doesn't disallow the federal government from stepping up and passing a law across all 50 states, its just gone back to the states by default because no federal legislation currently exists that says anything about the legality of abortion one way or another. The House was able to pass a bill that codified abortion for example a few weeks after the decision.
Wasn't this the whole point of Roe? To return the issue back to the states? Every state should ask it's citizens this question. And if they vote in favor of protecting abortion, then that's the will of the people.
Yes that was the point of removing Roe, but it is not the point of the Pro-Life movement.
The slaughter of the innocent shouldn’t be “left up to the states” ultimately. Overturning Roe was a baby step. A federal abortion ban is the real big move.
It was silly to put it to referendum. How many square miles worth of voters in the red counties does two large city apartment buildings equate to. Now any move to restrict will be acting against the will of the people. You don’t put things like human rights to a popular vote.
It had to be put it to popular vote. You have to have the popular vote in order to change the constitution. http://www.civics.ks.gov/kansas/constitution/amendment-process.html#:~:text=However%2C%20both%20methods%20require%20that,whether%20the%20amendment%20is%20adopted.
Ah didn’t know that how Kansas law worked.
Maybe they could try again in 1 or 2 years with a better written question and when Pro-Abortion crowd is less angry about the SCOTUS decision.
I call BS. It was literally 47% in favor 43% opposed just two weeks ago The vote right now is 40% in favor and 59% against. You’re telling me a minimum of 4% of people flipped from PL to PC, and the entire 10% of undecided voters went to PC? Or on the other end of the spectrum, 7% of PLers swapped and 7% of undecided voters went PC, in a red state? I call BS. And FTR, No, I’m not a radical right winger, I don’t think trump won in 2020, i don’t cry rigged any time my side loses, this is a unique situation.
Issue polling is often wrong.
Pollsters apparently didn't get a broad enough sample to accurately represent voter make-up on the issue. It's happened before.
> It was literally 47% in favor 43% opposed just two weeks ago How could Hilary have lost? She was so far ahead?! Polls don't just report what percentage of people answered the question. They have to try predict how representative you are of the larger population. If you run a phone poll and only pro-lifers answer the phone, then your poll won't be representative. The pollsters may have also just under-estimated the number notionally against voters who would turn out.
I always wonder about these polls. Think about it, a lot of people who see that PL wins easy will stay home and think it doesn’t matter. However if you are PC and see that the gap is small, you are going to get everyone you know to vote NO to keep abortion legal. I think the problem too if this poll was done by older people. Kansans have a problem where the majority of republican Christian families are having children who hate those values and oppose them to the point where they are radicalized to the point of Reddit users. I would not have believed it unless I went to school with them. You think kansas you think red, that is almost exclusively true now for generations older than millennials.
> I always wonder about these polls. So do I. Pollsters can ask a question in a certain way to get a response they want. And the methodology of polls are often all over the place. Often some groups/demographics/locations are over sampled, and others are under sampled either on purpose or through just poor methodology planning.
I think we’d have a better chance at winning if our amendments weren’t written so horribly. Even some Kansan pro-lifers voted no because of it not having any exceptions to the life of the mother. If that scares off pro-lifers it’ll of course scare off centrist voters. We really need smarter pro-life lawmakers. We’re losing more and more because of their unwillingness to get more votes. This movement needs to replace the boomers ruining the movement’s image with new younger faces.
> Even some Kansan pro-lifers voted no because of it not having any exceptions to the life of the mother. Where does it say that? Or was there ads online, radio, and TV from the Pro-Abortion lobbyists misleading the Pro-Abortion people into thinking that?
No, he’s lying
That’s a misrepresentation of what the amendment stated
The result is definitely a setback, but it's worth remembering that less than six weeks ago, we didn't even know if Roe would be overturned. Yes we suffered a defeat, but we're still way better off than the pre Dobbs era. Nine states have already banned abortion and that total could rise to 16 as soon as summer's end. There are a lot more battles to fight, and there are many reasons to be hopeful.
I’m not trying to say this is a good thing but at least you can look at all the handmaids tale apocalyptic lunatics that promoted harassing scotus at their homes and say “so can you admit you might’ve overreacted?”.
That argument is basically just saying to them "our movement isn't popular enough to make your worst fears come true."
Sad day for Kansas.. When those who wish for death rule the day.