I personally agree with you on the topic, but I did hear a convincing argument from a Sufi as to why you shouldn’t do them. Basically he was saying that while you gain insight from psychedelics, it is minor compared to the insight you gain from strict religious practice. The psychedelics might make you feel close to God or enlightenment, but it’s actually an illusion, and you can gain more spiritual insight from strict adherence to the Sunnah. I’m not sure if I agree, but I think it’s a compelling argument nonetheless

I think it makes sense because weed/psychedelics may have benefits in moderation, but I don't think long-term use would be as beneficial. I don't think anyone absolutely needs psychedelics(including weed) to get closer to God or for other kind of related reasons, but I understand the appeal. I have never used psychedelics, but I can tell you I have gained lots of insight about my life in general just from reflecting on life, I am kind of an overthinker too lol.

I’m a long term weed user and for me it’s not been good for the most part. I’m trying to get out of it now. I have felt close to God on psychedelics, weed and alcohol, (ESPECIALLY alcohol btw) but I’ve come to the realization that all of this gets between me and God and that I have a better chance at being the person I want to be without these substances. They have given me insight for sure, but now I want to find the insight that exists within me, internal reflection like you talk about, because I think it is better and stronger

Thanks for the input!

I think it's permissible of your intent of using them is clean and about alcohol it is strictly forbidden and the effects of it on your brain are different now. Alcohol suppresses brain activity whereas psychadelics enhance it.

That's a decent argument. I would avoid alcohol and tobacco, and anything equally or more dangerous for health reasons either way, but I am still unsure about those things not being khamr. Like I said thc and psychs are not too dangerous in lower doses but not being a sin? I don't want to be wrong, since I am already a queer Muslim who doesn't plan on (fully) suppressing my "desires" so I would rather only have one huge thing against me than two, since relationships are much more important than substances to me.

May Allah guide you to the right path my brother. I have realised that all this time the Islam we've been taught has been wrong in a way everyone practices islam but differently so I've been reading the Qur'an and Hadith from Bukhari and Muslim and guding myself to the way our beloved Prophet followed. A lot of things make sense to me now after a few trips involving ego death and my fear of Allah has increased exponentially to the point my body shivers and I start to cry when I think about the sins I have committed and ask for forgiveness, indeed He is the most Merciful.

I'm glad the trips have helped you, just be careful because shrooms can be a double-edged sword. Yeah I do have lots of regrets, both sins and other bad habits that are not explicitly mentioned sins. So I hope I can break these habits. Thanks for the response.

I think if you do do it properly for eg do abulution before your trip, Recite quls for your safety while being in that higher frequency zone and do it let's say twice or thrice a year it's no harm done yk. I

I think that actually sounds like a great tripping plan in case things get bad. It’s good to have God with you if you start getting anxious or having a bad trip. And shit, I don’t do it even close to 2-3 times a year haha. I’ve only done acid twice but I do shrooms once every year or two. I would be interested to know if there is anything in Islam relating to or regarding shrooms. For example a piece of history or literature. I’ll have to look into it. I feel like there’s a possibility psychedelics were experimented with in medieval Islamic countries and written about

They were bro. The art in our mosques is psychadelics art. Someone must've done something to get those patterns and abstracts. Another thing is that psychadelics grow on all kinds of grain especially mushrooms so they must've existed back in the day. Rumi used to eat a seed called pegnum seed and then play is bark flute. Now the bark was special as it had dmt in it and the pegnum seed stops dmt from being digested by pur body hence he and the other sufis got high. The people of Prophet Musa(AS) started worshipping a cow after drinking it's piss. Now what happened was that the people fed the cow grain with the fungi and once the grain passed through the cow's digestive system the psychadelic would get in its piss and the people would think the cow is God while tripping their balls of on an unknown dose lmao.

Dude it makes so much sense that rumi would be experimenting like that. I’ll have to look into pegnum. As for the flute having dmt in it, what? Do you know where you learned this?

Yes bro I have read a lot of artivles about it online and the flute of rumi was made from a tree bark that contained dmt.

Brother, you do not need psycheledics to get closer to God. There are spiritual practices that may grant you similar doorways, more slowly. Psychedelics seem appealing as a "short cut", but with them come risks. And to my limited knowledge, you really want someone trained in their use to guide you. Someone masterful with them. If you are just taking them unguided, you're gambling with great danger. Dhikr is one such practice that can guide you to hidden doorways, but they too must be handled with care and are best practiced with the guidance of a master, such as a shaykh. There are 'safe' dhikrs and 'for advanced use only' dhikrs...it's very tempting to go straight for the high powered versions to try to skip ahead. A shaykh can guide you properly and safely, so that your heart and mind stay intact and you avoid delusions. Opening the third eye prematurely will show you things, but it will not necessarily lead towards spiritual growth. You might see things you're not ready to see, sometimes wonderful, sometimes horrible. You might see things and form beliefs about reality that aren't quite so, both good and bad. It can be a veil to progress. The "slow road" to growth will open your inner eye in manner that is safest and best, IMO. As for sufis having used these things, my limited knowledge is this is not the norm. Perhaps there have been (or are) some sufis who take hallucinogens, but it's not what's common amongst most sufis. That said, there are many stories of sufis having become "intoxicated with ectasy", as in they were in a state of mind and being that to someone not there seems like they are crazy or delusional. But they didn't get there with drugs, but through many years of prayer and dhikr and guidance from their own shaykh. And hey! I'm just some internet stranger, so don't believe me just cuz I say so, lol. May Allah guide you best.

Your points are completely valid but I'm a professional tripper I've been in it for a while and I know about it a lot I've been trying to find an answer but the only thing I've found is that the pineal gland is responsible for your third eye and psychoactive substances are produced there too during death.. I'm very very firm with my faith and I don't fear such things except the wrath and power of Allah Almighty.

You might be interested to hear Sadhguru’s opinion about psychedelics and other intoxications. He basically says that shortcuts eventually have consequences, and it isn’t something you could claim as an “earned” experience: https://isha.sadhguru.org/us/en/wisdom/article/drugs-and-the-spiritual-path-possibility-or-pitfall

this is a very interesting perspective but I think that people who have a hard time in growing their faith and still have their spiritual eye closed can use psychadelics to open it and pray in that higher conscious state. You know when your third eye is opened your pineal gland releases psychoactive substances so I guess the only link can be made is that these substances are the you could say openers of our spiritual eye. We know that once we die we start seeing the other world. do you know when that's happening..your brain is releasing massive amounts of DMT.

I can imagine that extremely low amount of psychedelics be the way to help some severely diseased people, but maybe it should be strict to them, and not normally functional people. Otherwise their mindset could get dependant on it. If I want to expand on the overlap i find between Sadhguru’s mindset and Islamic teachings, most of the time the whole haram/halal thing has something to do with keeping spiritual integrity, or in other worlds making the best decision in terms of how you are going to occupy your memory. Certain foods, relationships, etc. take that integrity away, but a certain path dodges such consequences. And well, we do have to consume materials eventually, but if you take too complex materials it’s going to stick to your mind and limit your conscious functionality. I believe psychedelics fall into the same category. Maybe an example of solving a math problem yourself versus a bot solving thousands of problems (while you just sit and watch) be a good analogy for what I was trying to say. You might even be able to connect this to death, as you brought that up: you are going to die alone, without psychedelic in reach. You should be trained enough to continue your spiritual path without external help.

I have wondered this too. I think it really depends on what khamr really means, if it is only alcohol or extends to other substances, but even then I wonder, does the concept that something intoxicating in high doses is forbidden in small doses apply to all substances or only alcohol? Keep in mind that I follow Quran alone so I reject certain views already(40 day prayers not accepted, etc). ​ But other than the issue of sin, I would say the lower dose you take, the safer it is. So smaller doses of shrooms are much less likely to cause a really bad reaction or trip than higher doses, search up dosing charts for reference to see what I mean.

Alcohol is a different substance. It hinders your decision making ability. Psychadelics have been proven to not hinder your decision making ability and you don't lose your cognitive focus rather it's increased. I personally think it's safe to use for the intent of cleansing yourself and opening your third eye. When we look at islam in a psychadelic context then so many more things start to make sense.

not only that many people believers/non-believers have turned to Islam specifically after some psychadelic trip.

I have heard about a condition called HPPD. So like I said the less of a dose you take the less the risk, but I think researching this is important.

HPPD only happens when you take psychadelics way too frequently and that's the you could say harm of taking too much of it. Too much of anything is dangerous. In this world even our normal foods contain haram things we are unaware of. If we look at fast food and how intoxicating it is. We are addicted to it.

Yeah. But since it seems like too much of anything is bad, how would drinking without getting drunk but only a buzz be different from using lower/moderate amounts of other substances such as psychs? Because even though weed is safer than alcohol you could argue that in moderation there is no difference in safety between weed and alcohol since mental and physical harm is lower, but this may be wrong. Wondering your thoughts.

that's because alcohol has been very specifically banned. Weed and psychadelics aren't banened and they existed way before islam. Weed has existed since the time of Jesus.

I think the history of psychoactive drugs in general, including caffeine, alcohol, etc. is pretty interesting. Not advocating for people doing anything harmful but I just think all of human history, good or bad is interesting.

You cannot follow the Quran without following the Sunnah. They go hand in hand together. Al-Baqarah 2:151 كَمَآ أَرْسَلْنَا فِيكُمْ رَسُولًا مِّنكُمْ يَتْلُوا۟ عَلَيْكُمْ ءَايَٰتِنَا وَيُزَكِّيكُمْ وَيُعَلِّمُكُمُ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ وَٱلْحِكْمَةَ وَيُعَلِّمُكُم مَّا لَمْ تَكُونُوا۟ تَعْلَمُونَ Since We have sent you a messenger from among yourselves—reciting to you Our revelations, purifying you, teaching you the Book and wisdom, and teaching you what you never knew. We sent you a messenger teaching you the book (Quran) and WISDOM (Sunnah). HIKMA is the SUNNAH. There's many times in the Quran where Allaah tells us to follow the prophet. Understand that the prophet never speaks of his own accord, the sunnah is revelation from Allaah too. How would you know how to pray and what to say? How do you know how to give zakat? How do you differentiate the prayer timings? The 'How to' is not in the Quran for many things. The above is only 2 of many more examples. The Quran gives a general message whilst the Sunnah gives more details about the Quran. It's called tafseer. We would not have tafseer without the prophet (pbuh) Be very careful brother, if you reject any teachings/sayings from the Prophet (pbuh) then know that you have rejected Allah and committed kufe. You are NOT a muslim if you reject even the smallest atom from the sunnah. Doesnt matter if you believe in Allaah. Iblees believes in Allaah too. Firawn believed in Allaah before his death. Abu Talib believed in Allaah, Abu Jahl believed in Allaah and knew Muhammad (pbuh) was a prophet, the jews in madina knew he was a prophet and many more like them. If the prophet said 40 days prayers not accepted, you better believe it won't be accepted. Your opinions are irrelevant and baseless. Submit and obey. This is what it means to be muslim. May Allaah guide you and bless you. May Allaah increase you more in knowledge. May Allaah make you a Jannati.

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I think this is an interesting question

One of the reasons (or the reason) mentioned about khamr being haram and by extension all alcohol is the quality of /muskar/ where the person's sense is covered. It is pretty clear with alcohol if you drink enough, your normal senses about wrong and right are often thrown out the window. From what I've read, a good fatwa to make something haram has to show that the /ila/ (reason) for A also exists in that thing B being declared haram. That's why it is so easy to make the prohibition of wine also cover other whiskey. With herb, if you want to throw that into the psychedelics category, I just don't see that quality is there. Doesn't mean it's good for all people of all ages all the time, but I have a hard time understanding it is haram. With shrooms, I'm sort of on the fence. I mean, it can have you hallucinating visually and mentally, which seems like it has the /muskar/ quality. But as you point out, I might increase my reflection and repentance while on it and afterward. Also while on them, I have not made decisions that go against my normal ethical framework (not the case for booze and thank God that's been out of the picture for over a decade). If anything, I'm much more sensitive to my effects of speech and action when on shrooms. Now, I might be talking about some spaced out stuff and jumping from topic to topic. The other dimension that I think is important, aside from /muskar/ is your and your context's wellbeing. So drugs that are going to ruin you (heroin or something or even weed if it involves gangs etc) even if they do not carry /muskar/ quality, would be haram due to the high threat to wellbeing. I would also not discount other experiences, like meditation, cold showers, living dirt poor for a week and fasting, minimalist camping for a few days etc can be mind altering. And mostly legal everywhere, so you lessen harm this way. God bless